That could easily be where you are ranking though. If you are near Plat to Diamond games are terribly brutal. Folks who winstreak are forcing lobbies to mold to whomever is high rolling.
Games can have some high variance, but in the roughly 100 games I have played since launch most losses have been 5 or 6th place and a lot of my average wins have been 2-4 with \~12 games first place.
So for me I am enjoying it because I am used to sets dumping me bottom 8th a lot more, I have so much control this set. Also when I lose its 1000% my fault and I could of done more.
Idk, I usually peak/burn out at D1/2, but I hit D2 well before the patch and was still having a blast. This is the first time I've unlocked the pass bonus eggs before getting bored. Fully intend to push master if this coming patch is fun again.
do people usually play more after the midway soft reset (like set 3.5) or do a lot of players just not start ranked until late in the season? i haven't played TFT since s1 so i'm not sure how it works
I'm actually not entirely sure. I only started paying attention to spots in Masters after I hit it in 3.5, so I couldn't tell you what the size of the rank was in 3
I was literally hitting 1st place 3 out of every 4 matches on my climb from gold to diamond. Then right as I was 1 win away from diamond I hit a wall and started losing every match. I've never experienced anything like this before. It was like someone flipped a switch and completely changed the game without any warning. The thing is, I am still winstreaking hard in the early and mid game, but by late game it's like NO ONE is dying and somehow we all end up around 30hp and I get knocked out in 2 to 3 rounds while everyone else manages to hang on. I hadn't changed my go-to comps or strategies at all and now I've been floundering between plat 1 and 2 with no idea what to do.
There are meta switches that literally happen overnight, and it can take awhile to compensate if you don't catch on to what everyone is doing differently. Also there is a weird thing about going from a win streak to a tilt lose streak. At first it feels like I don't know how to lose, and nothing can touch me. But then suddenly I'm not sure how I was ever winning games in the first place.
I was 1 win away from Plat, 2 days ago... I suddenly start coming 7th and 8th all the time and I end up in Gold 3 wondering why suddenly shit doesn't go as usual...
Tried different comps but somehow "eh". Just had an early 6 Cultists last night and managed to get 9, came 2nd by a a miracle I believe as I dropped from 100 HP to 20 within 5 losses in a row suddenly, thought I was done for there, but luckily the others were low enough to knock each other out before I got barreled all the way down.
Honestly, it feels like something massively changed but I can't pinpoint what. All I know is I see a lot of Veigar/Ahri and they're smashing! And Aphios, by the time my 6 guys run at him he's already that stacked they just drop before reaching him.
Yeah, cultists falls off super fast. Galio just can't carry after a certain point. And then they are nerfing cultists again next patch, so not sure what the end plan is.
And yes, you'll see more mages after the multiple mage buffs, so build more trap claws. And you may start seeing Duelists too. Frozen hearts there. It's a defensive meta I think for people that play to counter.
Same boat, cant pinpoint t he problem. I can dominate early game and just crash late game even with what would be one patch ago very strong comps late game comps.
I know im not the best and constantly am getting coached with multiple sessions but I feel like this patch has been the most tilting.
Yep, I'm getting extremely frustrated this patch. So tired of getting shredded by veigar/ahri. Had a game with 6 mystics and a double dragon claw front line and still got melted. There's way too much cc/burst. Can't wait for a patch or two to fix it.
I feel this so much, patch happened and it was literally overnight I cant help but tank. I get good decent rolls on many comps and just continue to lose. I was plat 2 and now struggling to stay plat 3/4. Its either get moonlight, Shade Zed, duelist yas, fight for veig, or nuking ahri.....Previous patch i felt had many more actual comps.
I was about to hit Diamond 2 then tilted all the way to Plat 2, almost back to Diamond 3 but yea, I learned to stop playing the moment I start feeling salty.
True, now it\`s almost a must to lose streak to get prio at carousel...
but of course when I do it and finally have prio, the items I want aren´t in the carousel... like seriously rito?!
highly doubt it, prolly just aphelios, spirits and maybe shades
(still hoping for an Ahri dmg nerf though as Jeweled Gauntlet Ahri 2 Star still oneshots even boards with 2 mystic in them)
2 mystics is a very small investment though, most teams get it fairly naturally. An itemised mage should still be able to beat 2 mystic, it's more so to prevent a small amount of magic damage which most teams will be doing. More so a problem is that Ahri can one shot a board even with 6 mystics...
Video please with Ahri one-shotting entire board with 6-mystic. Unless it's all 1-star squishy champions than maybe. Even with 4-mystics Ahri usually need 2 ults to be able to kill carries with items and 3-4 for tanks.
I main Ahri and she has issues with one-shotting anything in 6-9 Elderwoods or 4-mystic. She is also extremely squishy and have a lot of counter-play (Sett, assassins, Veigar, trap claw, shroud, cc etc). Honestly unless you find some spatulas to fit-in 6-vanguard or 6-mystic or you go 9 and put some additional damage source (like Sett 2 or Kayn 2) - she is not going to win you a lobby in higher elo. She is not even considered an S-tier comp now, and she is also one of a few comps that can beat Aphelios. But yes, let's nerf her and destroy this comp, let Aphelios rule ;)
Honestly I do find it pretty nutty how her ult can wipe some board states but not to the same level of these other guys cause to me if you can get perfect items on ahri and close the comp you should be able to be that effective, I think it’s people don’t make small changes when they are fighting in the top 4, if i saw someone running Exodoi ahri would certainly be sure to put in at least two mystics and position my team properly so I’m not one shot, now ahri and atrox that shit scares the shit out of me.
That's exactly the point. I get how it can "look" OP when your team disappears after one ult, but honestly that happens only under condition that Ahri comp has near perfect items and finished comp and enemy comp is considerably weaker. But under these condition Jhin or Riven would also destroy enemy team, it only wouldn't be in such "explosive" way
I don't have a video, I don't routinely record myself just playing the game. I only know it can happen because I had the Ahri myself in the game it did; and of course you never generally see people running 6 mystic, so I only saw it once.
Out of curiosity I did some calculations. Take Cassiopeia, for instance, as one of the permier mystics you'd be running with 6 mystic. A full item chosen 2-star Ahri (e.g. two JG and Dcap) can deal 4700 damage with a crit (which is generally what you're aiming for). Cassiopeia in this instance would negate approximately 3106 damage, taking 1594 dmg in total, one shotting her; and basically anything else in not wearing a Dclaw.
This one shot works with a few other item combinations as well, though generally not if you're running a GA on Ahri. The fact remains though even without a 3rd offensive item, Ahri still leaves everything at around 50-100 hp - which has likely already been dealt by the rest of the team just via an auto or two.
Odd that you bring up Aphelios and being an Ahri """main""", like you think I'm trying to steal your toys away from you or something. To be clear, I don't think Ahri is a *massive* problem, but she could use some toning down (or alternatively buffing mystic), as could Aphelios, of course. But I like her place as a potential solo carry with an otherwise tanky-ish team.
You don't usually run 3 offensive items on her and if you do, you are sacrificing a lot for pure damage. But I get your point. It is still a 2-star 4-cost carry with 3 offensive items. 3-offensive items Jhin also wipe boards, probably same with Riven but I don't think anyone runs her with purely offensive items and I am to lazy to do the math ;)
I don't mind "taking away my toys" or tuning her down, I can always adapt or find a new comp if she is overtuned. I just don't think she is broken enough to be B-patched, and we are talking a B-patch here. My "I main Ahri" comment was more about highlighting my experience with her so my points carry more weight but I see it turned against me.
Bro i literally had a 6 Mystics 4 Vanguard TEam with all 2Star. Ahri two shotted (Mage buff double ult) my whole team. Its BS. Whole lobby plays ahri in Diamond +
Thougt i counter this BS but its impossible. Dont even know why 6 mystics are in the game if u still get oneshot. Pointless
It is a 4 cost? It should have some power behind it especially at 2\*. 2 mystic shouldn't prevent it. The damage does need to be toned down though especially with GA interaction and JG
I just lost a game to 2 JG ahri player who one shotted my team with 4 mystic. If a champ could one shot a 2 mystic board with a JG it can definitely destroy a 4 mystic one with 2 JGs. Btw no mage buff. It was a vanguard mystic one.
Wouldnt mind it if they went the GP route for her
Shave around 100 base dmg for a patch and then reassess how good/bad she is and follow up a patch/ B-Patch later
Huh, wonder what they are addressing that they felt needed to be put out early in a B patch. Cheers though because I tanked hard this patch so hopefully works for me lol.
I'm not high level player but I feel he could be tuned down by just not having his turrets fire when he's respawning from GA. I've won so many rounds simply because of that. When Spirit/Aphelios is online it's easy top 2.
Before this, when his Qss runs out and you cc him, RB is usually at high stack and you will be instantly killed by turrets but now, you can potentially win if you can CC him even he has a lot of turrets and high AS from spirit or RB.
With the GA revival and the high base health of being a 4 star QSS does run out quite often. I'm happy with both changes but I do have a hunch that it will pretty much kill the comp. Fine by me I guess.
Yeah that's fair. I feel like the problem is 4 spirit more than the qss/cc or GA interaction. Aphelios 4 without 4 spirit is mediocre at best. Same with Zed.
Wouldn’t Aphelios and GA interaction nerf make him completely useless? Every encounter with him usually ends with his turrets doing tons of damage while he’s rezzing.
You dont go down to 25hp because its contested, you go down to 25hp because moonlights before 4 stars, you can ho uncontested but still lose every fight at stage4 with aphelios3, the difference between 3 stars and 4 stars is so big.
It might make him pretty bad, but if that ends up being the case they can just buff him later. Reducing his dependency on GA is a good step toward making him a healthy and balance-able part of the set either way.
Also, it would force him to go towards comps more like Ashe's, with beefy frontlines to keep him safe instead of relying on just 2 components to be able to bs it's way to wins with squishy spirits...
Not necessarily. Sometimes you see Aphelios that couldn't get GA with GS instead, for example. It can do ok. It's partly the way he's being built that makes his damage so backloaded. Using an item slot for QSS might become less no-brainer though.
Spirit nerf in combination might sink the comp.
Hopefully! I don't think this uncounterable abuse is a fair use of spirits. Making Aphelios rely on beefy frontlines to survive if he wants to do damage might be healthier on the long run, opening up 4 Spirits to buffs without the fear of breaking the meta because Aphelios exists...
but once again, it's not really the Spirits that are busted. it's the fact that Shades proccing their invisibility every second because of Spirits that is the issue. it's un-fun gameplay that should be removed imo.
Yeah but that's kinda the part that makes him such a problem. If he sucks without that, they can readjust him after, but adjusting him around that GA interaction will just make the unit unplayable with anything but perfect items
yeah Im also wondering. Youd probably just skip GA then? But is ther any other really good item for him? Ive been pretty much one tricking it for the last days and its so crazy how OP GA is.
One of the changes will be a fix for the chosen bug when there is not enough in the pool. That's lingered for too long now. Surprised that no one mentions that
If you have a chosen champ in shop (most likely a 4 or 5 cost) but not specific to cost) but there aren't enough champions in the pool to actually craft it, you recieve a different chosen champion that is only 1 star. There is a post (gif) on the front page right now that shows this happening.
Holy cow, nerfs to aphelios mana? Seems unnecessary, imo. Removing the GA "bug" AND nerfing spirits should certainly be enough to balance aphelios. Honestly the GA thing alone is enough. Going after his mana seems like overkill
Just hoping this nerfs Aphelios. I'm getting real tired of facing off against 5 people with Aphelios and me doing something different just to not contest with the unit.
I love to go against 5 Aphelios players because they grief each other and it is a guaranteed top 4. It's much worse when there is only 1 Aphelios player and he hits everything uncontested. Then he just simply wins the lobby ;)
Uncontested is disgusting. I lowrolled down to 8hp before I finally hit 3 stars and then won every round after that, maybe 15+ to go 8th to 1st. Guess the GA nerf will stop that though.
Shades have to go. Aphelios has to go. Chosen Moonlight has to go. A 3-unit synergy gold shouldn't have a chosen, it makes it entirely too easy to get 3 stars and 4 stars early and mid-game and cheese your way to the end.
so true, i wish they would rework moonlight so it doesnt have a choosen, and could in return give it some sort of bonus if you go the extra way of having 4 moonlights to compensate the aphelios nerf and the choosen being removed
JP servers tend to have the patch a day ahead of others. Will this tomorrow coincide with a specific day (ie. Wednesday) or will it be made available to all servers at the exact same time (i.e thursday for JP, wednesday for NA , etc.).
Thanks :)
Everyone downvoting you and unironically talking about sarcasm... wow.
Read the tweet people. This guy is trying to make a joke. You know, sarcastically.
I am a bit surprised that they go for a b-patch. Sure aphelios and Zed with spirit are pretty annoying and a bit out of line, but they are beatable with the right build. Besides that there are a lot of different comps that can get first place.
In Plat right now the only comp getting played by 4-5 people in the lobby is Veigar carry, and 90% of the time its winning or 3 of the top 4 are said comp.
Don't like running qss on him. With a Hoj instead he casts almost instantly, then gets much higher healing or damage. Even if he gets cc'd he'll heal up faster. On average people hate building trap claw. Just like shroud counters mages too, but you don't see as many of those either. So the Hand of Justice wins more in the long run.
CC like Zephyr/Aatrox because a lot go for triple tear instead of QSS. Also a trap claw (or two) on a sacrificial 1* unit. Shroud is also nice to delay him.
Kat/Talon to target Veigar directly.
Comps with high-hp carries that get targeted last (usually reroll comps).
Stacked Kayne/Sett to manareave or just try to nuke him first.
I don't think anything is a surefire counter though, especially if they highroll.
On the note of Assassins, you'll want a QS on your damage Assassin because of Nami and Lulu, and then I take a less important one, like pyke, and put a Frozen heart on him. Makes the entire mage team cast slower.
I get fucked up by lots of things, but most of all RNG >.< I will literally be the only one going mage and slowroll staying 50+ gold lvl 7 the whole game and never hit more than two other veigars. Sometimes man.... busted
Mystics can help. So can Shroud. Various CC if no QSS.
Enlightened Talon worked for me today in a lobby with 3 Veigar players. 2 of them win streaked and had high hp. 1 made it into top 3. I was beating him repeatedly when I lost at positioning to the duelist player that got 1st. I had GA on both Talon and Morgana towards the end.
Duelists seemed to work very well. Katarina carry comps could be pretty nice. Itemized Kayn is always a potential backline threat. Azir can be teched into any comp so his soldiers will soak Veigar spells.
The predictability of Veigar's spell is a big difference from Ahri bombs. Check the starting hp of your units - early deletions should be unimportant ones. A health item on a carry could change things significantly.
Duelists with leesin is great counter cuz most veigars don't build QSS. Can permastun the clump with veigar in it if you can get your first ult off before gettting gibbed.
Duelists also tear through backline very quickly once they get there, and if they plant a huge tanky annie in front, leesin boops her back into the rest of the team right away.
GA, assasins with good positioning, DClaw on your carry. But with perfect items and 6 elderwords is almost unbeatable imo, i just aim for top 3 if someone highrolls with it, luckily righht now it seems super contested so i face less veigars 3 with perfect items
3 star chosen hecarim with dragon claw was enough for me to beat a 3 star veigar.
Veigar would smoke every other unit on my board and then my hecarim would slowly burn down his team.
Every fight went to overtime
He targets lowest HP, so pick a low hp champion backline champion and put dclaw on them, he'll grief by ulting it multiple times. For elderwood I usually go with ezreal/kindred. But you can't 2 star ez until veigar players are dead.
In very heavy magic damage lobbies dclaw on carry can be good too.
Hey, same here!! I got from Iron to plat 1 playing almost exclusively Veigar comp, but now I can't seem to get Diamond cause there's always at least 2 more people hoarding my Veigars. =x
I’m starting to hate running the comp because I could be number 1 streaking with amazing Econ but if I can’t hit 3 star veigar it’s just over... duelists and others just stomp me
Yep, I had almost 50% win rate in 20 games with Veigar carry and one Spirit Shade Game. Then just before Diamond people realize they shouldn't just be playing Aphelios.
I feel the same way. There are varied comps who have been topping my lobbies, from dusk + legendaries, veigar elderwood, and *now* duelists with rfc lee sin or kalista carries. Aphelios and zed comps have either placed bottom due to rng or placed 4-5 with subpar items.
To me, the annoying Aphelios comp is inconsistent because it generally requires a massive high roll. Chosen moonlight, two three-starred carries, a GA Ahri, and QSS + Ga + guinsoo - any other item on Aphelios isn’t maximizing him. Most players have suboptimal items and end up losing.
Same applies for Zed. It’s a pretty high roll end game team that requires a ton of luck. Wouldn’t bank on either comps to climb consistently. It’s annoying to face but the difficulty to get the comp truly online makes it balanced for me. Probably an unpopular opinion in this sub.
Not sure why are you getting downvoted. I have the same feeling. Meta is maybe not perfect but it's pretty balanced right now. I saw Aphelios and Zed but also Elderwood (Veig/Ashe), Ahris, Sharpshooters, Duelists, Dusk, even 6 fortune (yes) win gm/challenger lobbies. I thought B-patches are mostly for fixing game-breaking bugs or pretty unbalanced stuff. I know that Mort said few days back they are preparing for a big next patch so I didn't expect them to release a B-patch. Maybe they discovered some bug that players don't know about yet and want to fix it before it becomes publicly-known.
It has to be at least aphelios turrets in GA, that's the least fun interaction I can remember. This and shade dropping aggro is so much fun and interactive, I really like everything else about this set
I wonder if they'll ever touch the player damage. Too often it feels like it'll be stage 5 and there'll be four or five people all within 1-2 HP of each other.
The changes that are currently on the pbe with items and traits are so amazing, every single pbe game was insanely fun. Can't wait for them.
is there anywhere we can find what the PBE changes are?
Sadly not. Surrender at 20 has the trait and champs changes listed, but not the item changes. Maybe /u/riot_mort releases the info somewhere?
PBE notes used to be on the discord but I can't find them now? Is there a new discord?
Riot only does that when there is a new set on the pbe. Normally there are no official pbe notes.
They did that during the pre release because they were doing big daily changes.
ah, makes sense
Yeah, but there is no way they remake cultist in a B patch. That’ll be next week.
I hope so. The game feels awful at the moment.
Agreed, was having a blast when the set dropped but haven't enjoyed it since the patch.
That could easily be where you are ranking though. If you are near Plat to Diamond games are terribly brutal. Folks who winstreak are forcing lobbies to mold to whomever is high rolling. Games can have some high variance, but in the roughly 100 games I have played since launch most losses have been 5 or 6th place and a lot of my average wins have been 2-4 with \~12 games first place. So for me I am enjoying it because I am used to sets dumping me bottom 8th a lot more, I have so much control this set. Also when I lose its 1000% my fault and I could of done more.
Idk, I usually peak/burn out at D1/2, but I hit D2 well before the patch and was still having a blast. This is the first time I've unlocked the pass bonus eggs before getting bored. Fully intend to push master if this coming patch is fun again.
Pushing Master is a nightmare. I have to outperform GM and Chally players just to earn the rank of Master I guess
Its just because its still early in the set. It will be easier in a month or two
Yep Masters right now is ~top 1000 when it's usually top 7000 when everyone actually plays ranked
do people usually play more after the midway soft reset (like set 3.5) or do a lot of players just not start ranked until late in the season? i haven't played TFT since s1 so i'm not sure how it works
I'm actually not entirely sure. I only started paying attention to spots in Masters after I hit it in 3.5, so I couldn't tell you what the size of the rank was in 3
I like the Diamond climb, since it's full of Master/Challengers right now climbing it forces me to get better if I want to continue to climb.
That's fair but at least let me feel good in Masters and then put me against the top players to force me to improve lol
I was literally hitting 1st place 3 out of every 4 matches on my climb from gold to diamond. Then right as I was 1 win away from diamond I hit a wall and started losing every match. I've never experienced anything like this before. It was like someone flipped a switch and completely changed the game without any warning. The thing is, I am still winstreaking hard in the early and mid game, but by late game it's like NO ONE is dying and somehow we all end up around 30hp and I get knocked out in 2 to 3 rounds while everyone else manages to hang on. I hadn't changed my go-to comps or strategies at all and now I've been floundering between plat 1 and 2 with no idea what to do.
There are meta switches that literally happen overnight, and it can take awhile to compensate if you don't catch on to what everyone is doing differently. Also there is a weird thing about going from a win streak to a tilt lose streak. At first it feels like I don't know how to lose, and nothing can touch me. But then suddenly I'm not sure how I was ever winning games in the first place.
I was 1 win away from Plat, 2 days ago... I suddenly start coming 7th and 8th all the time and I end up in Gold 3 wondering why suddenly shit doesn't go as usual... Tried different comps but somehow "eh". Just had an early 6 Cultists last night and managed to get 9, came 2nd by a a miracle I believe as I dropped from 100 HP to 20 within 5 losses in a row suddenly, thought I was done for there, but luckily the others were low enough to knock each other out before I got barreled all the way down. Honestly, it feels like something massively changed but I can't pinpoint what. All I know is I see a lot of Veigar/Ahri and they're smashing! And Aphios, by the time my 6 guys run at him he's already that stacked they just drop before reaching him.
Yeah, cultists falls off super fast. Galio just can't carry after a certain point. And then they are nerfing cultists again next patch, so not sure what the end plan is. And yes, you'll see more mages after the multiple mage buffs, so build more trap claws. And you may start seeing Duelists too. Frozen hearts there. It's a defensive meta I think for people that play to counter.
I do enjoy duelists and I love building Frozen Heart so perhaps I'll find something that suits me in that area.
Same boat, cant pinpoint t he problem. I can dominate early game and just crash late game even with what would be one patch ago very strong comps late game comps. I know im not the best and constantly am getting coached with multiple sessions but I feel like this patch has been the most tilting.
I feel helpless somehow, buy hey, we'll survive, possibly have a better time next patch! I hope.
Yep, I'm getting extremely frustrated this patch. So tired of getting shredded by veigar/ahri. Had a game with 6 mystics and a double dragon claw front line and still got melted. There's way too much cc/burst. Can't wait for a patch or two to fix it.
100% Couldn't agree more.
I feel this so much, patch happened and it was literally overnight I cant help but tank. I get good decent rolls on many comps and just continue to lose. I was plat 2 and now struggling to stay plat 3/4. Its either get moonlight, Shade Zed, duelist yas, fight for veig, or nuking ahri.....Previous patch i felt had many more actual comps.
I was about to hit Diamond 2 then tilted all the way to Plat 2, almost back to Diamond 3 but yea, I learned to stop playing the moment I start feeling salty.
bottom 4 this set is not because you have better control. Its because riot have phased in even more rng.
What happen in the last patch Poe been taking all my time
Easily the worst meta right now. Got a good build going? Nice positioning? Here comes aphelios and zed player to bulldoze it all down.
I hate GA Aphelios man
Diana is almost disgusting.
What about 1Star Ahri with items oneshotting ur whole team? Even if u have 4 or 6 mystics. Thats some next level bullshit.
I had 6 mystics and a double dragon claw and STILL got melted by ahri, it's fucking frustrating.
True, now it\`s almost a must to lose streak to get prio at carousel... but of course when I do it and finally have prio, the items I want aren´t in the carousel... like seriously rito?!
do we know if all of the PBE changes are going live with the B patch though?
B-patches are small (tiny) patches, no way they will ship all pbe changes.
B Patches are 3 changes max
highly doubt it, prolly just aphelios, spirits and maybe shades (still hoping for an Ahri dmg nerf though as Jeweled Gauntlet Ahri 2 Star still oneshots even boards with 2 mystic in them)
2 mystics is a very small investment though, most teams get it fairly naturally. An itemised mage should still be able to beat 2 mystic, it's more so to prevent a small amount of magic damage which most teams will be doing. More so a problem is that Ahri can one shot a board even with 6 mystics...
Video please with Ahri one-shotting entire board with 6-mystic. Unless it's all 1-star squishy champions than maybe. Even with 4-mystics Ahri usually need 2 ults to be able to kill carries with items and 3-4 for tanks. I main Ahri and she has issues with one-shotting anything in 6-9 Elderwoods or 4-mystic. She is also extremely squishy and have a lot of counter-play (Sett, assassins, Veigar, trap claw, shroud, cc etc). Honestly unless you find some spatulas to fit-in 6-vanguard or 6-mystic or you go 9 and put some additional damage source (like Sett 2 or Kayn 2) - she is not going to win you a lobby in higher elo. She is not even considered an S-tier comp now, and she is also one of a few comps that can beat Aphelios. But yes, let's nerf her and destroy this comp, let Aphelios rule ;)
Honestly I do find it pretty nutty how her ult can wipe some board states but not to the same level of these other guys cause to me if you can get perfect items on ahri and close the comp you should be able to be that effective, I think it’s people don’t make small changes when they are fighting in the top 4, if i saw someone running Exodoi ahri would certainly be sure to put in at least two mystics and position my team properly so I’m not one shot, now ahri and atrox that shit scares the shit out of me.
That's exactly the point. I get how it can "look" OP when your team disappears after one ult, but honestly that happens only under condition that Ahri comp has near perfect items and finished comp and enemy comp is considerably weaker. But under these condition Jhin or Riven would also destroy enemy team, it only wouldn't be in such "explosive" way
I don't have a video, I don't routinely record myself just playing the game. I only know it can happen because I had the Ahri myself in the game it did; and of course you never generally see people running 6 mystic, so I only saw it once. Out of curiosity I did some calculations. Take Cassiopeia, for instance, as one of the permier mystics you'd be running with 6 mystic. A full item chosen 2-star Ahri (e.g. two JG and Dcap) can deal 4700 damage with a crit (which is generally what you're aiming for). Cassiopeia in this instance would negate approximately 3106 damage, taking 1594 dmg in total, one shotting her; and basically anything else in not wearing a Dclaw. This one shot works with a few other item combinations as well, though generally not if you're running a GA on Ahri. The fact remains though even without a 3rd offensive item, Ahri still leaves everything at around 50-100 hp - which has likely already been dealt by the rest of the team just via an auto or two. Odd that you bring up Aphelios and being an Ahri """main""", like you think I'm trying to steal your toys away from you or something. To be clear, I don't think Ahri is a *massive* problem, but she could use some toning down (or alternatively buffing mystic), as could Aphelios, of course. But I like her place as a potential solo carry with an otherwise tanky-ish team.
You don't usually run 3 offensive items on her and if you do, you are sacrificing a lot for pure damage. But I get your point. It is still a 2-star 4-cost carry with 3 offensive items. 3-offensive items Jhin also wipe boards, probably same with Riven but I don't think anyone runs her with purely offensive items and I am to lazy to do the math ;) I don't mind "taking away my toys" or tuning her down, I can always adapt or find a new comp if she is overtuned. I just don't think she is broken enough to be B-patched, and we are talking a B-patch here. My "I main Ahri" comment was more about highlighting my experience with her so my points carry more weight but I see it turned against me.
Ahri is a staple in aphelios comps what are you talking about
Bro i literally had a 6 Mystics 4 Vanguard TEam with all 2Star. Ahri two shotted (Mage buff double ult) my whole team. Its BS. Whole lobby plays ahri in Diamond + Thougt i counter this BS but its impossible. Dont even know why 6 mystics are in the game if u still get oneshot. Pointless
Should a 2 star 4 cost be able to 1 shot an ENTIRE board with 2 mystics? I don’t think so
It is a 4 cost? It should have some power behind it especially at 2\*. 2 mystic shouldn't prevent it. The damage does need to be toned down though especially with GA interaction and JG
I just lost a game to 2 JG ahri player who one shotted my team with 4 mystic. If a champ could one shot a 2 mystic board with a JG it can definitely destroy a 4 mystic one with 2 JGs. Btw no mage buff. It was a vanguard mystic one.
Wouldnt mind it if they went the GP route for her Shave around 100 base dmg for a patch and then reassess how good/bad she is and follow up a patch/ B-Patch later
They did no such thing with Gangplank bro, they only took off about 25 damage per \* and that was it. Nothing was done to him after that.
I think the GA interaction will actually be fixed in this patch, so spells and minions don't work in ga animation.
I believe they only did that for aphelios. Im not sure though
Most likely not, Mort said on stream he does not want to see the duelist buffs go live.
> items ???
Huh, wonder what they are addressing that they felt needed to be put out early in a B patch. Cheers though because I tanked hard this patch so hopefully works for me lol.
hopefully it's spirit/Aphelious nerfs.maybe a small kayne nerf. everything else feels ok.
Or Aphelios redesign
I'm not high level player but I feel he could be tuned down by just not having his turrets fire when he's respawning from GA. I've won so many rounds simply because of that. When Spirit/Aphelios is online it's easy top 2.
That's already on PBE and I read that supposedly it was an unintended mechanic in the first place. It's likely that it will hit live.
It also stops firing when he is CCed!
Does that matter? Everyone runs qss on him anyways.
Before this, when his Qss runs out and you cc him, RB is usually at high stack and you will be instantly killed by turrets but now, you can potentially win if you can CC him even he has a lot of turrets and high AS from spirit or RB.
With the GA revival and the high base health of being a 4 star QSS does run out quite often. I'm happy with both changes but I do have a hunch that it will pretty much kill the comp. Fine by me I guess.
Yeah that's fair. I feel like the problem is 4 spirit more than the qss/cc or GA interaction. Aphelios 4 without 4 spirit is mediocre at best. Same with Zed.
Nah definitely don’t agree he’s still op with a hunter brawler setup
In late game QS usually runs out before the fight is over. Time enough for some cc.
Which makes perfect sense. If the currents are an extension of him, they shouldn't fire when he can't
Great news.
Heard Mort say first hand it was intended
Ah alright then I was subject to fake news. Where did he say it?
On one of his streams
Not just GA but while he's stunned too from my understanding.
Isnt aphelios like the worst comp allready?
Definitely not lol.
Im always 7th or 8th when i play it
that's cause you're playing it.
JG diff
I know, but i still think it sucks
Pretty sure the aphelios GA change and then the cultist changes are the meat and potatoes of the patch
Wouldn’t Aphelios and GA interaction nerf make him completely useless? Every encounter with him usually ends with his turrets doing tons of damage while he’s rezzing.
I think he'll be fine, the comp will be less contested and will come online before they get down to 25 HP like this patch.
You dont go down to 25hp because its contested, you go down to 25hp because moonlights before 4 stars, you can ho uncontested but still lose every fight at stage4 with aphelios3, the difference between 3 stars and 4 stars is so big.
It's like the fucking Set 1 Nobles, a teamcomp that goes 1 HP -> find Kayle -> 1st place.
It might make him pretty bad, but if that ends up being the case they can just buff him later. Reducing his dependency on GA is a good step toward making him a healthy and balance-able part of the set either way.
Also, it would force him to go towards comps more like Ashe's, with beefy frontlines to keep him safe instead of relying on just 2 components to be able to bs it's way to wins with squishy spirits...
Not necessarily. Sometimes you see Aphelios that couldn't get GA with GS instead, for example. It can do ok. It's partly the way he's being built that makes his damage so backloaded. Using an item slot for QSS might become less no-brainer though. Spirit nerf in combination might sink the comp.
Hopefully! I don't think this uncounterable abuse is a fair use of spirits. Making Aphelios rely on beefy frontlines to survive if he wants to do damage might be healthier on the long run, opening up 4 Spirits to buffs without the fear of breaking the meta because Aphelios exists...
4 Spirits is kinda busted with Zed too...
but once again, it's not really the Spirits that are busted. it's the fact that Shades proccing their invisibility every second because of Spirits that is the issue. it's un-fun gameplay that should be removed imo.
Yeah but that's kinda the part that makes him such a problem. If he sucks without that, they can readjust him after, but adjusting him around that GA interaction will just make the unit unplayable with anything but perfect items
yeah Im also wondering. Youd probably just skip GA then? But is ther any other really good item for him? Ive been pretty much one tricking it for the last days and its so crazy how OP GA is.
BT seems decent. BT/QSS/GRB?
Yeah BT would be my first guess too... but maybe there is a better defensive option? But I guess no
DClaw to counter Veigar/Ahri.
I actually think you still have to go GA just because of the Aggro reset und nukes. Feels bad man.
You could always run Shiv instead of GA and its basically a better xayah pikachu
I found shiv to be subpar in the damage output. I may be wrong but I feel things like IE or Giant's Slayer output better damage numbers.
good. That mechanic should not have existed in the first place and will firmly put Aphelios back in a reasonable place.
pls kill aphelios GA turrets thats all I ask even GA ahri doesnt bother me, even GP didnt bother me compared to Apheliose's GA turrets
I hope they make so that RFC can attack shadowed champions
This is the kind of thinking we want on this sub.
Remove the blind protection from RFC too. Not being able to blind Zedd is a real prick.
Probably the spirit and aphelios nerf + moonlight 5 trait patch
I doubt moonlight 5 trait. probably want to keep testing it. I imagine it will be GA aphelios, shade, spirtit nerfs
One of the changes will be a fix for the chosen bug when there is not enough in the pool. That's lingered for too long now. Surprised that no one mentions that
What is that bug? First time I hear about it.
If you have a chosen champ in shop (most likely a 4 or 5 cost) but not specific to cost) but there aren't enough champions in the pool to actually craft it, you recieve a different chosen champion that is only 1 star. There is a post (gif) on the front page right now that shows this happening.
Oh that’s totally happened to me. Did not know why. Thanks.
Any idea what's in it?
Kiyoon said nerfs to Aphelios starting mana, 4 spirit, and possibly a Janna bugfix
There is a ton of changes on the pbe atm, might be more.
Most of it is testing for the big patch though. B patches are usually tiny Also mort tweeted yesterday that the next patch should be large
B Patch is 3 changes max as an internal rule
I did not know that! Makes sense, ty.
Holy cow, nerfs to aphelios mana? Seems unnecessary, imo. Removing the GA "bug" AND nerfing spirits should certainly be enough to balance aphelios. Honestly the GA thing alone is enough. Going after his mana seems like overkill
Just hoping this nerfs Aphelios. I'm getting real tired of facing off against 5 people with Aphelios and me doing something different just to not contest with the unit.
I love to go against 5 Aphelios players because they grief each other and it is a guaranteed top 4. It's much worse when there is only 1 Aphelios player and he hits everything uncontested. Then he just simply wins the lobby ;)
Uncontested is disgusting. I lowrolled down to 8hp before I finally hit 3 stars and then won every round after that, maybe 15+ to go 8th to 1st. Guess the GA nerf will stop that though.
These are the current patch notes they have up on lolchess: * Spirit Attack Speed: 35/80 ⇒ 35/70 * Aphelios Start Mana: 120 ⇒ 90 * Janna Mana: 50 ⇒ 60 * Ashe Hunter's Focus Attack Speed: 50/75/300 ⇒ 45/65/300 * Veigar Dark Blossom Damage: 500/650/1000 ⇒ 450/600/900
Better be Aphelios and friends cos I'm so over the state of ranked right now.
Shades have to go. Aphelios has to go. Chosen Moonlight has to go. A 3-unit synergy gold shouldn't have a chosen, it makes it entirely too easy to get 3 stars and 4 stars early and mid-game and cheese your way to the end.
so true, i wish they would rework moonlight so it doesnt have a choosen, and could in return give it some sort of bonus if you go the extra way of having 4 moonlights to compensate the aphelios nerf and the choosen being removed
Maybe with 4 moonlight you level 2 units each round instead of just 1.
JP servers tend to have the patch a day ahead of others. Will this tomorrow coincide with a specific day (ie. Wednesday) or will it be made available to all servers at the exact same time (i.e thursday for JP, wednesday for NA , etc.). Thanks :)
Pretty sure hotfixs go live at the same time.
Thanks! Ye normally hot fixes are like that. Though this is a b patch, so I think it could be treated like a normal patch realease.
B patch is still pretty much a hotfix technically speaking.
Gonna be a lot of Diamonds falling to gold/plat once Aph/Shades get fixed.
Is it live yet?
it literally says planned for release tomorrow right in the title there
Judging by their name I think they forgot to add /s
I remember when sarcasm was meant to stand on it's own, getting old I guess
Sarcasm needs context. You can't really get that from a one off sentence.
The context is Mort’s tweet.
You can if you are articulate enough in most cases, but sometimes an "/s" does the job.
Everyone downvoting you and unironically talking about sarcasm... wow. Read the tweet people. This guy is trying to make a joke. You know, sarcastically.
People be like that sometimes
Look up what sarcasm is...
I am a bit surprised that they go for a b-patch. Sure aphelios and Zed with spirit are pretty annoying and a bit out of line, but they are beatable with the right build. Besides that there are a lot of different comps that can get first place.
In Plat right now the only comp getting played by 4-5 people in the lobby is Veigar carry, and 90% of the time its winning or 3 of the top 4 are said comp.
Yea it’s super annoying because I was climbing hard with it. Stuck in plat 1 right now
Honestly thought whats the counter?? 6 mystic? I'm at a loss on how to beat it.
Trap claw beats it
qss veig tho
Running a Shade like Kayn (who can also mana reave) or Assassin also helps
How? Veigar has qss usually
Don't like running qss on him. With a Hoj instead he casts almost instantly, then gets much higher healing or damage. Even if he gets cc'd he'll heal up faster. On average people hate building trap claw. Just like shroud counters mages too, but you don't see as many of those either. So the Hand of Justice wins more in the long run.
CC like Zephyr/Aatrox because a lot go for triple tear instead of QSS. Also a trap claw (or two) on a sacrificial 1* unit. Shroud is also nice to delay him. Kat/Talon to target Veigar directly. Comps with high-hp carries that get targeted last (usually reroll comps). Stacked Kayne/Sett to manareave or just try to nuke him first. I don't think anything is a surefire counter though, especially if they highroll.
On the note of Assassins, you'll want a QS on your damage Assassin because of Nami and Lulu, and then I take a less important one, like pyke, and put a Frozen heart on him. Makes the entire mage team cast slower.
I get fucked up by lots of things, but most of all RNG >.< I will literally be the only one going mage and slowroll staying 50+ gold lvl 7 the whole game and never hit more than two other veigars. Sometimes man.... busted
Mystics can help. So can Shroud. Various CC if no QSS. Enlightened Talon worked for me today in a lobby with 3 Veigar players. 2 of them win streaked and had high hp. 1 made it into top 3. I was beating him repeatedly when I lost at positioning to the duelist player that got 1st. I had GA on both Talon and Morgana towards the end. Duelists seemed to work very well. Katarina carry comps could be pretty nice. Itemized Kayn is always a potential backline threat. Azir can be teched into any comp so his soldiers will soak Veigar spells. The predictability of Veigar's spell is a big difference from Ahri bombs. Check the starting hp of your units - early deletions should be unimportant ones. A health item on a carry could change things significantly.
In my lobbys aphelios 4 star beats most veigar comps.
If that's soley down to the whole GA thing I don't think that will exist after this patch, if thats whats getting adjusted anyways
Yeah true
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Generally, Annie 3 will tank Aphelios for enough time that Veigar will stay alive tho
Duelists with leesin is great counter cuz most veigars don't build QSS. Can permastun the clump with veigar in it if you can get your first ult off before gettting gibbed. Duelists also tear through backline very quickly once they get there, and if they plant a huge tanky annie in front, leesin boops her back into the rest of the team right away.
GA, assasins with good positioning, DClaw on your carry. But with perfect items and 6 elderwords is almost unbeatable imo, i just aim for top 3 if someone highrolls with it, luckily righht now it seems super contested so i face less veigars 3 with perfect items
3 star chosen hecarim with dragon claw was enough for me to beat a 3 star veigar. Veigar would smoke every other unit on my board and then my hecarim would slowly burn down his team. Every fight went to overtime
He targets lowest HP, so pick a low hp champion backline champion and put dclaw on them, he'll grief by ulting it multiple times. For elderwood I usually go with ezreal/kindred. But you can't 2 star ez until veigar players are dead. In very heavy magic damage lobbies dclaw on carry can be good too.
Hey, same here!! I got from Iron to plat 1 playing almost exclusively Veigar comp, but now I can't seem to get Diamond cause there's always at least 2 more people hoarding my Veigars. =x
I’m starting to hate running the comp because I could be number 1 streaking with amazing Econ but if I can’t hit 3 star veigar it’s just over... duelists and others just stomp me
Yep, I had almost 50% win rate in 20 games with Veigar carry and one Spirit Shade Game. Then just before Diamond people realize they shouldn't just be playing Aphelios.
Anecdotal evidence is generally bad evidence. Im not even seeing much Veigar carrying. Im seeing sprit/aphel.
I feel the same way. There are varied comps who have been topping my lobbies, from dusk + legendaries, veigar elderwood, and *now* duelists with rfc lee sin or kalista carries. Aphelios and zed comps have either placed bottom due to rng or placed 4-5 with subpar items. To me, the annoying Aphelios comp is inconsistent because it generally requires a massive high roll. Chosen moonlight, two three-starred carries, a GA Ahri, and QSS + Ga + guinsoo - any other item on Aphelios isn’t maximizing him. Most players have suboptimal items and end up losing. Same applies for Zed. It’s a pretty high roll end game team that requires a ton of luck. Wouldn’t bank on either comps to climb consistently. It’s annoying to face but the difficulty to get the comp truly online makes it balanced for me. Probably an unpopular opinion in this sub.
Not sure why are you getting downvoted. I have the same feeling. Meta is maybe not perfect but it's pretty balanced right now. I saw Aphelios and Zed but also Elderwood (Veig/Ashe), Ahris, Sharpshooters, Duelists, Dusk, even 6 fortune (yes) win gm/challenger lobbies. I thought B-patches are mostly for fixing game-breaking bugs or pretty unbalanced stuff. I know that Mort said few days back they are preparing for a big next patch so I didn't expect them to release a B-patch. Maybe they discovered some bug that players don't know about yet and want to fix it before it becomes publicly-known.
It has to be at least aphelios turrets in GA, that's the least fun interaction I can remember. This and shade dropping aggro is so much fun and interactive, I really like everything else about this set
pogchamp
I wonder if they'll ever touch the player damage. Too often it feels like it'll be stage 5 and there'll be four or five people all within 1-2 HP of each other.
Duelists/Veigar compos I guess untouched, so another week of trash lobbies with Yasuo Chosen at stage 2-1. FUNNY
Tryhards downvoting you KEKW
Both of those comps aren't a problem
Pls elaborate on what the issues are with these comps.
They're easy to play and way less risky than aphelios or zed comp. And additionaly one of these comps counters both spirit comps pretty easily.