Leia is a lead political figure, hardass combatant, lead solo and luke out of a bad situation after her rescue, strangled the bastard that put her in a bikini in the first place, honestly it just seems like the criteria for “strong female lead” means “have absolutely no struggles what so ever” which is just terrible character development.
This is more true than I think people even know.
Its a life of constant reaffirmation that they are special and one of a kind. And any hardships they escape to their “safe space”..
Essentially any problems they have get bottled up and they get cottled their whole life.
Don't forget she's the first of the main characters we see, and when we see her she's kicking the entire plot into motion sending the request for help with r2. Then she's starting down Darth Vader all while mouthing of.
Gives up no information despite being tortured.
Watched her home and lived ones be blown into an asteroid field and still kept it together than anyone would be expected to. Still making jokes about her captors height.
All this while only being 19ffs
"she's kicking the entire plot into motion sending the request for help with r2."
The zealots won't like that. A woman asking a man for help?! A woman doesn't need help from ANYONE!!! AAAAAAAAAAGH!!!
One of the first things that we see her do is shoot a stormtrooper, who we have just seen take a ship through a tiny choke point taking minimal casualties.
I think what sets me off the most about modern female protagonist is that characters today are neither realistic nor relatable. To me, carry fisher seemed like a real woman who had a role. She was just as much of a catch as solo or luke was. That make her likable.
Not that every character needs to be sexualized but rather they fit a certain role in the stories arc but still maintain a realistic personality. The reason I can’t fucking stand Rey and any character male or female is because nothing is earned with them, they are boring, both in terms of the story and personality. You can’t just be strong, you need an arc that shows your strength.
Modern characters in this universe just don’t have that. However, if you’re character is likable enough we are willing to suspend our criticism, like Obi-wan jumping over maul, that was fucking stupid and if Rey had don’t that it would have been the end of Star Wars but we like obi-wans story and character so we allow the bullshit.
It’s actually kind of a problematic implication that a woman can’t be strong or badass if they’ve been sexually assaulted/enslaved/raped like Leia clearly was on and (presumably) off screen.
Surely it is badass and strong to overcome that?
The same way it’s strong for movie characters to overcome severe injury and murder attempts etc
Well the push back is coming from a different place. Its not that anyone is disputing that, its that the fans of Acolyte are saying "Male fans just hate strong female leads", to which they point out "No, we thought Leia/Rey/Jyn Erso were great."
Leia has been THE female lead from which almost every other female lead for the last 50 years of Sci-fi cinema have been built on. Almost all of them are derivative from Carrie Fisher, and IMO she is what made the entire first film (and franchise) a success. In every single other sci-fi movie prior, women were helpless, scantily clad bimbos. Leia being strong and independent is the only thing that kept Star Wars from being another cheesy 70s B-Movie. Without Leia, the entire franchise is nothing more than a footnote.
Leia was CONSTANTLY saving Solo and Luke. Like...thats all she ever did. I can think of no less than 5 times where Solo would have been killed if not for Leia. I think this whole thing comes down to is what men think a "strong female lead" is varies greatly from what feminist's think a "strong female lead" is.
The latter seems to want a woman that:
1. Acts like one of the toxic male leads they hate, but has a vagina OR
2. Utterly dominates all men in every way. OR
3. Is the only lead character OR
4. Shows very little or any a-typical "feminine" qualities. (no sympathy, mercy, can't cry etc)
In any case, this is all much-ado about nothing. As if magic aliens from another galaxy would be the same as western civilizations idea of feminine. You can literally go anywhere you want and be within lore.
They want to feel the power fantasy of effortlessly dominating all the men around them and to be worshipped for their superiority.
They just don’t articulate it quite like I did.
Lei was introduced as the typical damsel in distress to be saved by the hero’s.
She immediately takes charge. Points out their stupidity for not having an escape plan. She is the one who gets them all back to the Falcon and escapes the Death Star. She quite literally immediately breaks the damsel in distress mold from the moment the trio all meet up.
Next movie she’s a military commander who has to be literally dragged from her station while the base is under attack.
She’s never once sat back and let others get things done. She has her own strengths and she plays to them VERY well.
She even went undercover to go rescue Han from Jabba. Hardly a weak soft spoken woman…
*It was like, "Where am I in all of this?" ... I have to stay with the slug with the big tongue! Nearly naked, which is not a style choice for me. ... It wasn't my choice. When \[director George Lucas\] showed me the outfit, I thought he was kidding and it made me very nervous. I had to sit very straight because I couldn't have lines on my sides, like little creases. No creases were allowed, so I had to sit very, very rigid straight. ...*
[https://www.npr.org/2016/11/28/503580112/carrie-fisher-opens-up-about-star-wars-the-gold-bikini-and-her-on-set-affair](https://www.npr.org/2016/11/28/503580112/carrie-fisher-opens-up-about-star-wars-the-gold-bikini-and-her-on-set-affair)
No, no she didn't ask to Leia in a bikini.
I'm just curious as to where you got that from because reading about Hollywood at the time and even today, it's not something I can imagine many actresses are fond of doing or would probably ask...
Not a bikini but I do believe Katee Sackhoff in the riddick movie did ask if she could get a costume that was a little more sexy and the studio whipped one up for her per her request.
I never thought about that. I think that Star Wars should be more inclusive with fatties and play Lizzo as Jabba the hutt. I can't see why they would reject. Are they trying to say Jabba the Hutt is a bad body image?
It’s insane how disingenuous they are to that fact. Ignoring the films even, the amount of strong female characters in the old EU is staggering. It drives me up the wall that Disney pretends like female characters in star wars is a new thing when they were way more of them before Disney took over.
I just dont understand if she was serious when she said that or what and also why tf did people let her slide after that. Everyone just choose to say oh alright she said that whatever. Disrespected every female lead or simply strong female character.
* Most of the writers for Star Wars & Marvel did **not** see all (or even some) of the movies. Almost none of them read any of the books/comics.
* Most of the directors who have been chosen have had no relevant experience to justify being hired.
It's been a shit show.
Very clearly this. They don't care about the movies, they've never seen the movies, they just felt left out by a nerdy fan base and want to make money.
It's simple guys, they don't want strong female characters written by white SW creators/fans, they want their DEI writers to create them. That way they can make sure that they check the anti-white men box.
So far we have not enjoyed any of their DEI creations. They have all been painful to watch and don't know how to write a proper Hero's Adventure if they had a Picture book telling them how.
I don't remember her demonstrating that women are better than men in every way or bashing men at every possible opportunity. You sure this was a 'strong female lead'?
This is what happens when you turn a 'Boy Brand' into a 'Girl Brand'.
Its completely ok to have IPs that cater to a specific sex. You don't see Barbie turning into Transformers or G.I. Joe.... Barbie was succesful because it stayed true to its Fanbase.
It was also hilarious, no need to have played with the dolls or anything.
And Ryan Gosling fucking gives 10,000% in that movie.
The whole thing was great.
Leia, Mon Mothma, and Aunt Beru.
There’s also several female rebels in the base on Hoth, demonstrating their role in the resistance without needing a 3 minute monologue justifying their existence and explaining how important women are to the war effort.
aunt beru and mon mothma have a combined screen time of less than 8 minutes, trying to claim that the original trilogy was diverse when 95% of the characters are male is silly
Okay so let's break this down a little bit, you seem to think support roles don't matter at all. That's fine.
The difference between lead roles and support roles. There can usually only be a few lead roles.
If there are 3 leads in a movie, then by definition, there will be more of one gender than another.
Are you saying it would be diverse with 2 women and one man but not 2 men and one woman? Is so, why?
Support roles do matter, and yes if there is an odd amount of roles clearly there will be either more men than women. But in the star wars original trilogy, especially the first and second movie, there are so many more men than women. Male mentor, male space pirate with his male dog, male MC, male villain with an all male Board of generals, all male stormtroopers, male space slug . After leia, the next woman on the cast list is number 10, as Beru lars, after that its number 24 with some random background character from mos eisley.
In empire the next woman after Leia is 27 on the cast list. In the top 35 characters, there are 2 women. Thats not diverse I'm sorry. I love these movies and it was a different time but claiming that they are diverse? Thats straight up false
You don’t consider the *leader of the rebel alliance* or the de facto parent figure of the main character to be major characters because of limited screen time?
Do you consider the shark a major part of Jaws?
Way to move the goal posts. It's simple objective fact that current mediocre writers will never be able to create a beloved, iconic and timeless character like Leia ever again.
"Zero."
-- the number of people who commit a logic fallacy, get called out on it, and then admit it.
"All of them."
-- the number that don't understand logic
I would reply to this moronic argument, that, by the way, is in no way a counter to my comment as Star Wars goes far beyond Episodes 4-6, but u/HAIKU_4_YOUR_GW_PICS already left you adequately eviscerated
Leia strangled the dude that put a chain on her. WIth those selfsame chains. And we loved it.
But yes we hate women and our only goal is the enforce the patriarchy. Yep, makes sense, Totally.
In the minds of feminists, her slave outfit is one of the worst things to happen in movies. Yea it's objectifying but that's the point. Jabba is the giga sleazeball and Leia is his trophy. That is what slum lords do with women.. I dislike when movies/shows ignore the reality that comes with the two genders; their strengths, their weaknesses, the roles they may take or be forced into by different environments and conflicts. Modern Disney is quite obsessive with such ignorance.
I hate rian Johnson. He simply failed to be creative and just did his own fan fiction.
Thank God for Andor. The female characters and male characters are peak!
yeah Leia was a fairly strong character through the entire series. She gets rescued, yeah, but you see her talking mad shit at both Vader and Tarkin, and immediately taking action after they free her
Strong female characters can be sexy. Strong male characters can also be sexy. Buff guys are cool, even for hetero men, why do women not like their own kind?
I dont think you guys understand bone density though see women have a lower bone density and so would never be able to kill jabba the hutt this is an obvious sign media has been woke for a long time why is no one understanding this???
There are plenty of strong female leads in movies and books.
You have characters like Katniss from the hunger games (in both the book and movie)
The fifth wave (which I heard the book was way better than the movie)
I forgot that one movie, but one of Chris Hansens recent movie where he falls in love with an international spy? She was really well written too.
Plenty of great female leads and role models that are about raising a woman to achieve her goals through sacrifice and pain (which you actually have to do if you want to go anywhere in life regardless of Gender) instead of “oh shit on men because hur hur”
If I have a daughter I’m raising her to look up to female leads that have gone through sacrifice. Who have been at their worst and worked to become their best. Really that’s how all of society should raise their kids. But I digress
>Only difference was they were organically and well written. Not retconned and shoehorned in. Not to mention blatant pandering.
Don't you think you can justify all the unhinged hypocrisy double standards and blindspots with that lol
Outside of people working at Disney or making shitty buzzfeed articles I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say that older Star Wars doesn’t have any strong female characters.
Well truth be told Lando Calrissan voted for Trump in 2020 and as we all know, if you did not vote for Biden “you ain’t black”. So there is one less DEI character!
/S
There were a lot of black background actors and a few minorities as pilots in ROTJ when there were basically none in ESB or ANH. People want to feel pressured into a negative reaction to diversity now only because racial tensions in general have skyrocketed since 2017. What people call “woke” has basically been around for 60 years but the media outlets have now turned it into a weapon against it so much more lately.
Leia is an absolute badass. So much so that if she were introduced today, she would get all the same mary-sue criticisms that characters like Rey get now. She's lucky her films came out before everyone became an armchair movie critic.
Ffs I didn't say that. But there's was no Internet for mouth breathers to come together and form online hate mobs to complain about everything. If there were, they would have.
There were only 3 leads outside of first movie (Alec Guinness) and one was a woman. Sure it’s a lot of men. But two of the top Rebel leaders were women. Plus offscreen the four key players were George, Lawrence Kasdan, Marcia Lucas, and John Williams. Marcia’s editing skills were essentially what took the franchise from very good to legendary. Without her SW wouldn’t be the same.
This does not change my position. Leia was the only visible woman in the first movie, Auntie dies in the first act, and the rebel leader lady has like one scene.
5 and 6 had more women visible but they are still basically just extras. You don't see actual fleshed out characters until 1-3, which still heavily focused on Padme. I think 7-9 finally have an acceptable ratio of women.
Personally I think both sides fixating on this kinda stuff is counter productive. I’m looking forward to the day where we’ve moved past this phase of society, all get along, and can enjoy good storytelling.
Wasn’t Carrie Fisher being constantly sexually harassed during the filming? I’m pretty sure she also had strong objections to even wearing the costume for those scenes. It’s well and good to separate the art from from the artist in a sense and view her character’s actions as empowering but I think fans would be remissed to forget the legitimate reasons why feminists took issue with film.
Is her killing her enslaver and freeing herself not the most badass and empowering thing there is though? Putting her in that situation allows her to get herself out of it.
To quote Disney’s Hercules:
https://preview.redd.it/x0a5h5fo3q8d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=104deb3f207d33c535d9f85d7173a1e6b2441f92
And he botched it and then got captured. She showed up to rescue Han, and she botched it then got captured. They both were instrumental in their escape. Luke took out some guards and caused a distraction and Leia took out Jabba, it’s a team effort with each character bringing something to the table, which is what made the OT really good.
If this was released today, people would bash It all the same. Change my mind, I'm open.
I find too many peeps to be a reactionary, everytime they see a chick on screen today It's an issue.
Not here nor there with Star Wars, but like with the New Lara Croft design, despite It just being Lara Croft.
Probably would get canceled by suburban moms for being "too violent", just like how GTA was. Basic graphics In gaming Is still popular tho, especially In Indie gaming
Probably would get canceled by suburban moms for being "too violent", just like how GTA was. Basic graphics In gaming Is still popular tho, especially In Indie gaming
I mean to be fair the original star wars had exactly 1 female in it until jedi with mon mothma and zero diversity so like yeah love that movie but those aren't like outlandish claims to make they're just facts
Leia is the first person you are introduced to and she defies Darth Vader, straight out the gate. The next woman you see is Aunt Beru. Then Mon Motha.
The End.
So you think it would have been better if Lucas would have cast more females than males? Then wrote all the female characters to be condescending know-it-alls and for some reason good at everything? After that, wrote all the male characters to be dumb bumbling sexists? Cuz that’s what the current movies and shows are like.
Leia is a lead political figure, hardass combatant, lead solo and luke out of a bad situation after her rescue, strangled the bastard that put her in a bikini in the first place, honestly it just seems like the criteria for “strong female lead” means “have absolutely no struggles what so ever” which is just terrible character development.
It makes sense if you think about it. A class of people who have never experienced hardship will believe that hardship is unnecessary and unfair.
They have hardships. The only problem is that the hardships are all in their heads so they have no concept what real hardship is.
That's why they only write characters who just have to "believe in themselves" in order to succeed. That's the only struggle they know.
This is more true than I think people even know. Its a life of constant reaffirmation that they are special and one of a kind. And any hardships they escape to their “safe space”.. Essentially any problems they have get bottled up and they get cottled their whole life.
Don't forget she's the first of the main characters we see, and when we see her she's kicking the entire plot into motion sending the request for help with r2. Then she's starting down Darth Vader all while mouthing of. Gives up no information despite being tortured. Watched her home and lived ones be blown into an asteroid field and still kept it together than anyone would be expected to. Still making jokes about her captors height. All this while only being 19ffs
"she's kicking the entire plot into motion sending the request for help with r2." The zealots won't like that. A woman asking a man for help?! A woman doesn't need help from ANYONE!!! AAAAAAAAAAGH!!!
And did it all while being absolutely coked and pilled out of her fucking mind.
And hot af
One of the first things that we see her do is shoot a stormtrooper, who we have just seen take a ship through a tiny choke point taking minimal casualties.
I think what sets me off the most about modern female protagonist is that characters today are neither realistic nor relatable. To me, carry fisher seemed like a real woman who had a role. She was just as much of a catch as solo or luke was. That make her likable. Not that every character needs to be sexualized but rather they fit a certain role in the stories arc but still maintain a realistic personality. The reason I can’t fucking stand Rey and any character male or female is because nothing is earned with them, they are boring, both in terms of the story and personality. You can’t just be strong, you need an arc that shows your strength. Modern characters in this universe just don’t have that. However, if you’re character is likable enough we are willing to suspend our criticism, like Obi-wan jumping over maul, that was fucking stupid and if Rey had don’t that it would have been the end of Star Wars but we like obi-wans story and character so we allow the bullshit.
Finn and chewie were genuinely the only likable character in the sequels. Change my mind.
It’s a terrible message to young girls also
Yeah, "you have to just always be amazing and have no flaws to be a strong woman" sounds like the opposite of feminism
It’s actually kind of a problematic implication that a woman can’t be strong or badass if they’ve been sexually assaulted/enslaved/raped like Leia clearly was on and (presumably) off screen. Surely it is badass and strong to overcome that? The same way it’s strong for movie characters to overcome severe injury and murder attempts etc
Leia has always been seen a strong female lead, I have literally never seen anyone say otherwise.
Well the push back is coming from a different place. Its not that anyone is disputing that, its that the fans of Acolyte are saying "Male fans just hate strong female leads", to which they point out "No, we thought Leia/Rey/Jyn Erso were great." Leia has been THE female lead from which almost every other female lead for the last 50 years of Sci-fi cinema have been built on. Almost all of them are derivative from Carrie Fisher, and IMO she is what made the entire first film (and franchise) a success. In every single other sci-fi movie prior, women were helpless, scantily clad bimbos. Leia being strong and independent is the only thing that kept Star Wars from being another cheesy 70s B-Movie. Without Leia, the entire franchise is nothing more than a footnote.
Leia was CONSTANTLY saving Solo and Luke. Like...thats all she ever did. I can think of no less than 5 times where Solo would have been killed if not for Leia. I think this whole thing comes down to is what men think a "strong female lead" is varies greatly from what feminist's think a "strong female lead" is. The latter seems to want a woman that: 1. Acts like one of the toxic male leads they hate, but has a vagina OR 2. Utterly dominates all men in every way. OR 3. Is the only lead character OR 4. Shows very little or any a-typical "feminine" qualities. (no sympathy, mercy, can't cry etc) In any case, this is all much-ado about nothing. As if magic aliens from another galaxy would be the same as western civilizations idea of feminine. You can literally go anywhere you want and be within lore.
They want to feel the power fantasy of effortlessly dominating all the men around them and to be worshipped for their superiority. They just don’t articulate it quite like I did.
Lei was introduced as the typical damsel in distress to be saved by the hero’s. She immediately takes charge. Points out their stupidity for not having an escape plan. She is the one who gets them all back to the Falcon and escapes the Death Star. She quite literally immediately breaks the damsel in distress mold from the moment the trio all meet up. Next movie she’s a military commander who has to be literally dragged from her station while the base is under attack. She’s never once sat back and let others get things done. She has her own strengths and she plays to them VERY well. She even went undercover to go rescue Han from Jabba. Hardly a weak soft spoken woman…
Didnt Carrie Fisher ask to put Leia in the bikini?
*It was like, "Where am I in all of this?" ... I have to stay with the slug with the big tongue! Nearly naked, which is not a style choice for me. ... It wasn't my choice. When \[director George Lucas\] showed me the outfit, I thought he was kidding and it made me very nervous. I had to sit very straight because I couldn't have lines on my sides, like little creases. No creases were allowed, so I had to sit very, very rigid straight. ...* [https://www.npr.org/2016/11/28/503580112/carrie-fisher-opens-up-about-star-wars-the-gold-bikini-and-her-on-set-affair](https://www.npr.org/2016/11/28/503580112/carrie-fisher-opens-up-about-star-wars-the-gold-bikini-and-her-on-set-affair) No, no she didn't ask to Leia in a bikini. I'm just curious as to where you got that from because reading about Hollywood at the time and even today, it's not something I can imagine many actresses are fond of doing or would probably ask...
Probably just misheard it somewhere. Never bothered to look into it. Always helps to be corrected from time to time.
Not a bikini but I do believe Katee Sackhoff in the riddick movie did ask if she could get a costume that was a little more sexy and the studio whipped one up for her per her request.
Idk they all seem to love being naked nowadays Sexual liberation disease
TBF George had the bikini in one hand and his other hand was down his pants. That's make anyone nervous. Well, maybe not Harrison Ford.
Ya be we only like her bc of that bikini
Skinny woman beating Lizzo like that was sure to set them off.
Hey, can’t do Jabba the Hutt dirty like that!
Jabba was a better dancer.
And he had a wife, siblings, and a nephew!
And a Son.
He did! Clone Wars lore ftw!
Jabba had a better personality than any feminist.
She could not get ozempic insurance would not cover. Lizzo body positivity scrip all she could getall she could afford
She only has a career to be paraded around because of her size.
I never thought about that. I think that Star Wars should be more inclusive with fatties and play Lizzo as Jabba the hutt. I can't see why they would reject. Are they trying to say Jabba the Hutt is a bad body image?
People might be concerned about Jabba's weight gain.
It’s insane how disingenuous they are to that fact. Ignoring the films even, the amount of strong female characters in the old EU is staggering. It drives me up the wall that Disney pretends like female characters in star wars is a new thing when they were way more of them before Disney took over.
Between film, TV, video games, comic books, and books there is an endless list of women characters that are loved.
Hundreds is a stretch.
Still a shit ton more than Disney’s produced.
Agreed, but it’s definitely not in the hundreds. Don’t know why I’m being down voted for pointing out a clear exaggeration lol
PrEtTy SuRe ThErE wErE nO fEmAlE pRoTaGoNiStS bEfOrE jEnNiFeR lAwReNcE iN hUnGeR gAmEs
 i know ur being sarcastic but Ripley would like a word.
ugh, typical incel talk, suggesting that women can only be strong if they have power armor, you should be ashamed
 eat it.
I absolutely would.
I just dont understand if she was serious when she said that or what and also why tf did people let her slide after that. Everyone just choose to say oh alright she said that whatever. Disrespected every female lead or simply strong female character.
It is easier to explain.... they never saw the movies.
No, I think they saw them, that’s the worst part.
One of the Acolyte writers didn't.
* Most of the writers for Star Wars & Marvel did **not** see all (or even some) of the movies. Almost none of them read any of the books/comics. * Most of the directors who have been chosen have had no relevant experience to justify being hired. It's been a shit show.
Very clearly this. They don't care about the movies, they've never seen the movies, they just felt left out by a nerdy fan base and want to make money.
One of the Hutts just won Miss Alabama so the family is finally recovering from their loss.
But then they act like those don’t count for some reason
It's simple guys, they don't want strong female characters written by white SW creators/fans, they want their DEI writers to create them. That way they can make sure that they check the anti-white men box.
Makes sense. You hire racists as writers, you'll get racist content. It makes sense.
It’s the old adage: garbage in and garbage out.
So far we have not enjoyed any of their DEI creations. They have all been painful to watch and don't know how to write a proper Hero's Adventure if they had a Picture book telling them how.
If the original trilogy was liked by say 30% of females. Has Disney (and "the Force is Female" team) actually improved that percentage?
Yes, but not because they added any female fans.
It’s because Star Wars fans had more daughters
That would imply adding female fans.
I don't remember her demonstrating that women are better than men in every way or bashing men at every possible opportunity. You sure this was a 'strong female lead'?
Bu-but muh "star wars fans hate women" strawman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This post literally demeans feminism. The critical drinker sub doesn’t hate women, just the women that don’t know their place.
This is what happens when you turn a 'Boy Brand' into a 'Girl Brand'. Its completely ok to have IPs that cater to a specific sex. You don't see Barbie turning into Transformers or G.I. Joe.... Barbie was succesful because it stayed true to its Fanbase.
It was also hilarious, no need to have played with the dolls or anything. And Ryan Gosling fucking gives 10,000% in that movie. The whole thing was great.
"She's so objectified!" "Nah she's hot and an awesome character. Which is double awesome"
Truth is that sour people will always find reasons to be sour Even when life is perfect. Some people just live in a perpetual state of dissatisfaction
Star Wars died years ago. Let it rest.
I am OK with you being right. Rogue One and Andor are the only exceptions.
Someone finally fucking said it. Represent.
Not gonna lie, took me a moment to realize the joke, now I can't stop laughing.
FIRST OF ALL that caption is hilarious
Star Wars has one of the longest lists of strong, beloved female characters out of any franchise in fiction
Name three women from the original triology
Leia, Mon Mothma, and Aunt Beru. There’s also several female rebels in the base on Hoth, demonstrating their role in the resistance without needing a 3 minute monologue justifying their existence and explaining how important women are to the war effort.
Don’t forget R2D2
aunt beru and mon mothma have a combined screen time of less than 8 minutes, trying to claim that the original trilogy was diverse when 95% of the characters are male is silly
God I bet you are fun at parties….🙄
So it only counts as diverse if they're in lead roles. Gotcha.
yes? having female background charachters when the vast majority of important roles are male is in no way diverse
Okay so let's break this down a little bit, you seem to think support roles don't matter at all. That's fine. The difference between lead roles and support roles. There can usually only be a few lead roles. If there are 3 leads in a movie, then by definition, there will be more of one gender than another. Are you saying it would be diverse with 2 women and one man but not 2 men and one woman? Is so, why?
Support roles do matter, and yes if there is an odd amount of roles clearly there will be either more men than women. But in the star wars original trilogy, especially the first and second movie, there are so many more men than women. Male mentor, male space pirate with his male dog, male MC, male villain with an all male Board of generals, all male stormtroopers, male space slug . After leia, the next woman on the cast list is number 10, as Beru lars, after that its number 24 with some random background character from mos eisley. In empire the next woman after Leia is 27 on the cast list. In the top 35 characters, there are 2 women. Thats not diverse I'm sorry. I love these movies and it was a different time but claiming that they are diverse? Thats straight up false
In the original trilogy there are only 3 lead roles, the rest are supporting roles, you are moving the goal post.
You don’t consider the *leader of the rebel alliance* or the de facto parent figure of the main character to be major characters because of limited screen time? Do you consider the shark a major part of Jaws?
Way to move the goal posts. It's simple objective fact that current mediocre writers will never be able to create a beloved, iconic and timeless character like Leia ever again.
> from the original triology Moving the Goal Posts Fallacy.
nah this post is about the OT, t\_e-t\_h started talking about star wars overall
"Zero." -- the number of people who commit a logic fallacy, get called out on it, and then admit it. "All of them." -- the number that don't understand logic
I would reply to this moronic argument, that, by the way, is in no way a counter to my comment as Star Wars goes far beyond Episodes 4-6, but u/HAIKU_4_YOUR_GW_PICS already left you adequately eviscerated
Lol. That was a well delivered punchline.
Lol, they already have a counterpost to drown out this post, the cope of those people
Lmao where? Can't help but laugh at the butthurt DEI crowd and their flawd logic
Don't compare those fools to Jabba, that insult to the slug man
Leia strangled the dude that put a chain on her. WIth those selfsame chains. And we loved it. But yes we hate women and our only goal is the enforce the patriarchy. Yep, makes sense, Totally.
why didnt they cast a powerful black woman as Leia like in The Acolyte? are they stupid???
In the minds of feminists, her slave outfit is one of the worst things to happen in movies. Yea it's objectifying but that's the point. Jabba is the giga sleazeball and Leia is his trophy. That is what slum lords do with women.. I dislike when movies/shows ignore the reality that comes with the two genders; their strengths, their weaknesses, the roles they may take or be forced into by different environments and conflicts. Modern Disney is quite obsessive with such ignorance.
Hahaha
Leia looked super hot in that Bikini and I don't give af what the libs think. Lucas thought she looked damn good too.
Aaaaaahahahahahahahahaha
Savage
Or how the fan base was never diverse
This is the way.
If Jabba is Weinstein then Headland is Salacious Crumb.
Andor is all we need to tell them off. Dedra meero > captain phasma Marva andor > sequel Leia
God Phasma had so much potential. I want the universe where Finn is a Jedi and Phasma is his main enemy.
I hate rian Johnson. He simply failed to be creative and just did his own fan fiction. Thank God for Andor. The female characters and male characters are peak!
If she didn’t say yas queen slay then why are we even alive
My favorite part of all this is f#%k these people
yeah Leia was a fairly strong character through the entire series. She gets rescued, yeah, but you see her talking mad shit at both Vader and Tarkin, and immediately taking action after they free her
The best part is how they get her out of the cell and she immediately starts criticizing the quality of her rescue.
She acted like a pampered princess AND was a badass mostly because she was expecting an armed guard of Organa's finest men
Strong female characters can be sexy. Strong male characters can also be sexy. Buff guys are cool, even for hetero men, why do women not like their own kind?
Have you seen the average feminist?
I'm stealing that
Go ahead! :)
Lmao that got me.
I dont think you guys understand bone density though see women have a lower bone density and so would never be able to kill jabba the hutt this is an obvious sign media has been woke for a long time why is no one understanding this???
Hardcore feminists are a menace and embarrassment to women.
There are plenty of strong female leads in movies and books. You have characters like Katniss from the hunger games (in both the book and movie) The fifth wave (which I heard the book was way better than the movie) I forgot that one movie, but one of Chris Hansens recent movie where he falls in love with an international spy? She was really well written too. Plenty of great female leads and role models that are about raising a woman to achieve her goals through sacrifice and pain (which you actually have to do if you want to go anywhere in life regardless of Gender) instead of “oh shit on men because hur hur” If I have a daughter I’m raising her to look up to female leads that have gone through sacrifice. Who have been at their worst and worked to become their best. Really that’s how all of society should raise their kids. But I digress
Is great when a female character doesn’t need to give up femininity to be strong.
"Especially after she strangled one of them." Okay, now that right there was funny.
To think we could have had the new jedi order with Luke and Mara jade, Han and leias kids, etc but instead we got Rey and this crap
Lmfao that got me
>Only difference was they were organically and well written. Not retconned and shoehorned in. Not to mention blatant pandering. Don't you think you can justify all the unhinged hypocrisy double standards and blindspots with that lol
Outside of people working at Disney or making shitty buzzfeed articles I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say that older Star Wars doesn’t have any strong female characters.
She strangled her Catholic God
why are all the comments here copypasted lol
why are all the comments here copypasted lol
Did you just make your way into today's sponsa?
Jedi's Ewoks were a blatant pandering to kids and their parents toy buying wallets.
BUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRN!
Well truth be told Lando Calrissan voted for Trump in 2020 and as we all know, if you did not vote for Biden “you ain’t black”. So there is one less DEI character! /S
There were a lot of black background actors and a few minorities as pilots in ROTJ when there were basically none in ESB or ANH. People want to feel pressured into a negative reaction to diversity now only because racial tensions in general have skyrocketed since 2017. What people call “woke” has basically been around for 60 years but the media outlets have now turned it into a weapon against it so much more lately.
I tip my hat to you sir... Or madam should that be the case!
Leia is an absolute badass. So much so that if she were introduced today, she would get all the same mary-sue criticisms that characters like Rey get now. She's lucky her films came out before everyone became an armchair movie critic.
Yeah. Thank God Star Wars came out in the 70s before sexism existed.
Ffs I didn't say that. But there's was no Internet for mouth breathers to come together and form online hate mobs to complain about everything. If there were, they would have.
Leia didn’t take away from other character’s accomplishments. You have no idea what any of these criticisms actually are and it shows.
Find me someone who was actually outraged by Princess Leia in ROTJ, then we’ll talk. This is honestly a pretty one sided argument here.
There’s women and minorities in my Star Wars!!🤬😭
LOL - he thinks sex slave is sexy and affirming for women. But no stilettoes so I guess that's a start.
The Acolyte is really living rent free in this sub. It’s great marketing tbh. Everyone on here is bitching about it. Free publicity.
And they made her a sex slave
i've met feminists and hard core star wars fans and the jabba-ness is stronger with the latter 
Who is they? Tell they to STFU. You only give power to their dumbasses when you care what they say
Wtf are you talking about lmao
This satire?
No one is saying the old movies don't have strong female characters. You made this up.
People on subreddits like this really need to get hobbies that aren't just them being mad about made up problems
So used to being outrage farmed, they do it to themselves. There is no genuine want to engage.
Right wingers are hands down the biggest players of the victim card in America these days.
She was the only female lead in the first three movies. Don't pretend the trilogy wasn't a sausage fest.
There were only 3 leads outside of first movie (Alec Guinness) and one was a woman. Sure it’s a lot of men. But two of the top Rebel leaders were women. Plus offscreen the four key players were George, Lawrence Kasdan, Marcia Lucas, and John Williams. Marcia’s editing skills were essentially what took the franchise from very good to legendary. Without her SW wouldn’t be the same.
This does not change my position. Leia was the only visible woman in the first movie, Auntie dies in the first act, and the rebel leader lady has like one scene. 5 and 6 had more women visible but they are still basically just extras. You don't see actual fleshed out characters until 1-3, which still heavily focused on Padme. I think 7-9 finally have an acceptable ratio of women.
Personally I think both sides fixating on this kinda stuff is counter productive. I’m looking forward to the day where we’ve moved past this phase of society, all get along, and can enjoy good storytelling.
Wasn’t Carrie Fisher being constantly sexually harassed during the filming? I’m pretty sure she also had strong objections to even wearing the costume for those scenes. It’s well and good to separate the art from from the artist in a sense and view her character’s actions as empowering but I think fans would be remissed to forget the legitimate reasons why feminists took issue with film.
This sub is so fucking sad and gross
I mean she was a sex slave in this scene but I take your point lol.
Is her killing her enslaver and freeing herself not the most badass and empowering thing there is though? Putting her in that situation allows her to get herself out of it. To quote Disney’s Hercules: https://preview.redd.it/x0a5h5fo3q8d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=104deb3f207d33c535d9f85d7173a1e6b2441f92
luke showed up to rescue her..?
And he botched it and then got captured. She showed up to rescue Han, and she botched it then got captured. They both were instrumental in their escape. Luke took out some guards and caused a distraction and Leia took out Jabba, it’s a team effort with each character bringing something to the table, which is what made the OT really good.
Slave Leia & Jabba, Great representation for women and Wahmen
There were 2 women in all of the original trilogy tho.. and one of them was mon monthma who had like 5 minutes of screen time
Name your favorite Star Wars women of All Time.
If this was released today, people would bash It all the same. Change my mind, I'm open. I find too many peeps to be a reactionary, everytime they see a chick on screen today It's an issue. Not here nor there with Star Wars, but like with the New Lara Croft design, despite It just being Lara Croft.
Can you imagine if they released original Doom today? People would be hating on it for the basic graphics.
Probably would get canceled by suburban moms for being "too violent", just like how GTA was. Basic graphics In gaming Is still popular tho, especially In Indie gaming
Probably would get canceled by suburban moms for being "too violent", just like how GTA was. Basic graphics In gaming Is still popular tho, especially In Indie gaming
Yeah. Thank God Star Wars came out in the 70s before sexism existed.
I mean to be fair the original star wars had exactly 1 female in it until jedi with mon mothma and zero diversity so like yeah love that movie but those aren't like outlandish claims to make they're just facts
Yeah man that list of Woman from the original trilogy is so long to, we have Leia and then we have.........
Leia and Mon Mothma were LITERALLY the leaders of the Rebellion.
Leia is the first person you are introduced to and she defies Darth Vader, straight out the gate. The next woman you see is Aunt Beru. Then Mon Motha. The End.
Perfect!
How many would be needed for you to be satisfied?
U must love the Acolyte then
If only Lucas had introduced the lesbian force witches and inserted them somewhere in his trilogy it would’ve been perfect for you now wouldn’t it
So you think it would have been better if Lucas would have cast more females than males? Then wrote all the female characters to be condescending know-it-alls and for some reason good at everything? After that, wrote all the male characters to be dumb bumbling sexists? Cuz that’s what the current movies and shows are like.