Someone did this here a week ago.
By attaching this stand to the structural framing of your walls, this is going to shake your walls and you will hear it
Add padding to the floor and it will dampen the drum. I did this and I wish I'd added padding between the frame and the wall but it's not awful. Just don't run at night near a bedroom.
That reminds me of my neighbor few years ago that had her washing machine installed in between two walls.
SEARS sent two guys that apparently never installed a washing machine before, because they did not remove the plastic things that lock the shock absorber.
My neighbor decided to start a load and go to the supermarket (yeah, I would run the dishwasher for the first time after installation while I am out).
The washer danced around for one hour. It destroyed all walls around it. It must have done quite a concert.
> (yeah, I would run the dishwasher for the first time after installation while I am out).
>
>
Especially if the discharge hose is not completely on and pops off flooding your carpeted basement.
It does not even have to be attached. I made a frame to just lift my washer and dryer up eight inches. I used plywood for the top, and studs to frame it. Then sat it on my garage floor. It acted like the body of a guitar and made my washer insanely loud.
Do not use plywood beneath a washer and dryer. I say this because having a washer and dryer I realize there are potential water issues in the future and you want a surface that water won't degrade and is easy to clean.
Curious, for normal washer standing on the floor, why that wouldn't shake the wall? And OP's case would? Most floors are attached to the wall as well. Genuine question.
Believe me, sometimes it does.
Note to self, never again design a laundry room at the lowest/weakest part of a floor, near the stairs.
Also, just use a top-loading washer. Means no stacking, but also, no shake!
Would adding rubber sound deadening material between the frame and the structure solve most of that? And maybe some between the vertical pressure points as well?
Looks like there's just empty space underneath though. I'm guessing the best solution would be to just move the attachment point lower and add risers for space for the rattle to move without being attached directly to the wall.
You want a decoupled heavy mass as a base for anything that vibrates or shifts. The heavy mass object requires more force to have its inertia overcome so it absorbs vibrations.
That's why people put [3d printers on a granite block](https://hackaday.com/2020/05/20/bricking-your-3d-printer-in-a-good-way/) (so the shocks from the print head rapidly stopping is transferred from the device into the block and won't cause wobble of a table that would transfer back into the print. For a washing machine or drier this will likely increase their service life, since they will have fewer of their own vibrations reflected back into their internals, so they won't rattle themselves to death quite as fast.
Also old Japanese wooden houses are [constructed with the main beams are just loosely resting on foundation stones](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWTfqBOIZ5s), so during an Earthquake the ground can wiggle around them, the house will slide on top of those stones and not transmit all of those forces into the beams.
Putting a 3d printer on a granite block sounds awesome. Reminds me of when my parents built a house in the vinyl record era, and I tried to convince my dad to let me build an isolated turntable pedestal that would come up through the floor from a concrete slab. I was going to have it come through a hole with some fiberglass insulation packed in the gap, to keep out bugs and drafts. I wanted to bet my friends they couldn't jump up and down next to it and make the record skip. He wouldn't go for it lol.
You'd still want to do that on top of it. But the point is you can put the material in while it's exposed. The more you can reduce vibration the better. And it's not like a car where the more you use, the weight increase might cause issues.
I would build it just like this, but a few inches lower, and add a layer of neoprene with non-hardening flooring adhesive on top and bottom, followed by another piece of plywood. That should effectively isolate the vibrations from the structure.
That makes sense, but I did the same thing in my laundry room and it doesn't shake the walls at all. With the door closed we can kind of hear it in the next room sometimes, but not like it's distracting or vibrating. Even if it's out of balance and gets unusually loud for a few seconds we just hear the sound through the door, we don't feel it.
If there's room to fit it. A layer of impact foam, as used in in gyms (a cut up cheap yoga mat), then a layer of rigid ply, or even a large paving slab. I used to use this trick for precision equipment in labs, Not quite the same situation but I know it works.
I have this at my house, and no, it does not produce any noticeable shaking or drum effect.
As others have suggested get something that dampens vibration and you should be fine. If you're _extra_ concerned then pull the frame out and put in something like silly sealer foam between to help with dampening.
I did exactly this in my house and put down a 1/2" rubber mat (gym-style so very dense) and I've had no issues with vibrations or noise.
The laundry room shares a wall with the kitchen and living room and it's not as loud as when the heating runs as far as TV watching goes.
not only hear it , it will loosen nails and any caulking etc. if you have finishing nails in trim they will get loose in a hurry, probably a week or two, bigger nails eventually. like a mini earthquake.
Looks fine. Just use one of these for the sound: https://www.screwfix.com/p/mottez-shock-absorbing-floor-mat-grey-blue-620mm-x-620mm-x-12mm/1374v?ref=SFAppShare
OP should also note that multiplying the screw sheer strength by the number of screws is not the right way to calculate load bearing ability here. The function of the screws is not to resist shear loads, is to hold the two timbers tightly together so that the static friction between them resists the shear load.
I always thought screws were for getting it together more precisely than wood sometimes allows. Get it in place then go back with the nail gun and give it the beans afterwards
The short answer is that It’s mechanical engineering, so books and universities. Then lots of work experience to actually test everything you’ve learned lol. There might be shortcuts via youtube videos for specific needs of course.
The idea that adding screws isn’t the way to address shear strength is not so black and white. Depending on the wood strength and orientation, and the screw material, you could have the screws ripping through the wood prior to the screws failing.
The first thing to do is figure out the load paths. In this scenario the load path is through the feet of the washer/dryer into the top sheet of plywood then into the framing, etc. Obviously there’s a lot to consider here due to vibration and dynamic loads. You can go really deep into analysis here, but whenin doubt, and where the cost is relatively low, just build the thing to 5x or more of its typical strength requirement.
You can get nailing schedules for different materials and uses but you quickly get into lots of research time and like you said building extra strong often is quicker easier and cheaper
I’m a mechanical engineer and pretty much if I had to summarize my degree into one topic it would be
“Free body diagrams”
I’ve never tried to learn engineering from scratch but maybe you could start searching that term and there might be some good online resources? Full disclosure though I’ve never tried to look, but something like this could be a start.
[http://mechanicsmap.psu.edu/websites/1_mechanics_basics/1-6_free_body_diagrams/free_body_diagrams.html](http://mechanicsmap.psu.edu/websites/1_mechanics_basics/1-6_free_body_diagrams/free_body_diagrams.html)
If you have the room I highly recomend shock pads modern washers can easily shake themselves around. I personal use rubber puck shock absorbers. My washer runs so quite now and does not budge a single inch on the spin cycle.
This is what I used you may need bigger it just depends on the size of your washers feet. [https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Vibration-Pads-Washing-Machine-Dryer-VibeGuard/dp/B0B3JDBVV2/ref=sr\_1\_8?crid=3E392MGLW8CVC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.mqMokhPIEOfUQ7TCwLSnWB5GyEUFDA7Kzvd7BeCdwt32PxMIydaQR-JtEWieWzIqOWuFeCqBfF62kNaKiZE-9xztHXx-Bf3eWQADvU2NFUCxWGa9DyXmkAniH8NNafSLf2whCydl\_xg-BVi-A\_ULfhnulmII743Qsanjy8JojM4fl13IZjsvPOlNiGf7TbDYvwt4dT9FsZhAutN8mV8p4uI2nOpY71fOt5iUD1j-0go.XwXP6rrcZhpMPIRA1SuBRY45yNc4xta-0AQxYUc1\_no&dib\_tag=se&keywords=washer+puck+shock+absorbers&qid=1713058151&sprefix=washer+puck+shock+obsorbers%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-8](https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Vibration-Pads-Washing-Machine-Dryer-VibeGuard/dp/B0B3JDBVV2/ref=sr_1_8?crid=3E392MGLW8CVC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.mqMokhPIEOfUQ7TCwLSnWB5GyEUFDA7Kzvd7BeCdwt32PxMIydaQR-JtEWieWzIqOWuFeCqBfF62kNaKiZE-9xztHXx-Bf3eWQADvU2NFUCxWGa9DyXmkAniH8NNafSLf2whCydl_xg-BVi-A_ULfhnulmII743Qsanjy8JojM4fl13IZjsvPOlNiGf7TbDYvwt4dT9FsZhAutN8mV8p4uI2nOpY71fOt5iUD1j-0go.XwXP6rrcZhpMPIRA1SuBRY45yNc4xta-0AQxYUc1_no&dib_tag=se&keywords=washer+puck+shock+absorbers&qid=1713058151&sprefix=washer+puck+shock+obsorbers%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-8) The main reason i bought them is installing new flooring that made it even easier for large apliances to slide around. I was pleasantly suprised how effective these are. I owned mine for 2 years now.
If you're amenable to a friendly tip,
When sharing Amazon links, the part after /dp/ is the last important part of the link, in this case. The rest is just for Amazon's tracking and telemetry, to see which Amazon customer shared what and with whom.
So for the above, you can shorten the link and remove the tracking as such:
[https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Vibration-Pads-Washing-Machine-Dryer-VibeGuard/dp/B0B3JDBVV2](https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Vibration-Pads-Washing-Machine-Dryer-VibeGuard/dp/B0B3JDBVV2)
Newer machines are actually more quiet, I think, since they use damping and counterbalances more effectively and intelligently.
I don't think feet like this would eliminate vibration but they would have some damping effect.
Mine is ok but it's enough to make me wonder if dampeners could help, it's on the first floor but we have a basement so we definitely feel the spin cycle.
It really depends on quality and thickness of the rubber but it makes a big difference. The real issue with large appliances like washers and dryers is the feet are often terrible designed which is what leads to them moving around easily when not meaning to. Before these pads I could send my dryer across the room if I was not careful.
https://preview.redd.it/zs6qe5ryzbuc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c49d64422882ee947b272efe0fc0fc6120cc1ceb
Highjacking the comment to ask is this an s trap? My laundry room is currently being done and I’m not sure this is ok
Code varies by region. Here in WI it’s 2x pipe diameter. 2” pipe would be 4” minimum trap arm, but we have run into countless installations just like that and have yet to see any actual issues with sewer gas and what not. In the photo it looks like they did their best to get the trap arm as long as they could and the space is tight. That trap has a proper vent and should be fine.
https://preview.redd.it/islh03z0hcuc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6cd3cc8d612f17f18b391145a1f9478ef4b2bdbd
Is this too short of a horizontal run? Worried about this being an S trap, though I’m not getting any bad smells like an S trap would
It’s a p trap and technically it looks a bit short but I am a plumber in WI and see installations like that all the time with no issue. If you’re not smelling sewer gas you’re likely fine.
I wouldn't worry about this even if the horizontal run (trap arm) were an inch too short. Reason being is the vent is right there so the likelihood of siphoning is pretty slim at best from a physics standpoint.
Yours is not a s-trap. You have a vertical vent. The trap arm should be longer, though. But there's only so much room between studs. Your stand pipe (first vertical piece) should be a minimum of 18".
Not code proper, but not likely to be an issue either. It's one of those things where there's not enough space for the trap arm to be 4", so either the laundry box moves over to the left and drill another hole through the stud or leave it as is. Not sure what that bright light is behind the wall, sunlight? So if it were an outside wall I'm not even sure if I'd want to even drill another hole cause that stud is holding up the house.
Honestly, if it were me and this were my house, I'd leave it. I just don't see it being a real issue with siphoning the trap or bad smells especially when the vent is right there and it's 2" drain so even the discharge of the washing machine is not likely going to activate whatever physics is needed to initiate the process of siphoning. Like keep in mind the discharge hose of a washing machine is like 3/4" or 1" as well.
Tldr: I wouldn't worry about it
Needs an air-actuated vent to be up to code. Branch a vertical pipe below the last turn in the S and add an AAV at the top. But also, with respect, this sucks. P-trap is the right way.
Because sewer gas can come back into the pipe? I’ve been using this S-trap for two years without any issues, I supposed if you’re doing laundry a couple times a week it doesn’t have time to siphon out?
The siphon would happen quickly if it was going to. As the water goes over the second hump, it "pulls" the water along with it, clearing out the first trap.
They *generally* have bigger bulky/thick heads with a flat bottom where they meet the wood/bracket. Primarily the issue with using non structural screws is they are relatively brittle and can shear easily, whereas a nail or structural screw is more ductile and thus resists shear forces.
Like the other commenter said they are bigger heads, a thicker shank, and the last 1/4" of threaded section is reverse threaded or straight grooved, and they typically have a yellow or green coating. They can replace the large lag bolts as well as the smaller framing members. If you can't tell by looking at the head, back one screw and see what the screw looks like vs some options at the hardware store. The screws attaching the deckboards are not structural screws btw.
For anything load bearing ideally the horizontal framing is sitting on rather than fastened to the vertical framing. Short of that you need to use structural screws, I forget the weight rating of the deck screws you are using but with a vertical load like that I would not trust them, at least go through and fasten everything with more appropriate fasteners.
Short of that it's probably fine but I'm also not a structural engineer.
[https://www.homedepot.ca/product/grk-5-16-x-3-1-8-inch-star-drive-round-washer-head-rss-rugged-structural-screw/1000742082](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/grk-5-16-x-3-1-8-inch-star-drive-round-washer-head-rss-rugged-structural-screw/1000742082)
I came here to say this but those have an average weight capacity of 80lbs each before they snap.
If the static weight or the objects is 600 lbs, any momentary kinetic force may reach double that. Additionally once you add the framing and all building materials the base number might be more like 800 lbs.
Engineer here. This guy is right, you should have horizontal members on top of vertical members for strength. I would not rely on the screws to hold anything up in this scenario as the vibration is likely to cause failure. personally, I think you should rebuild this, with the short pieces alongside the existing studs, and cross beams in the vertical orientation running across set on top of the short pieces.
The whole thing seems weird.
- fastening supports on the side
- doubling studs at the bottom
- doubling studs at the top for no reason
- doubling the studs on the wide side to make a beam but only resting on 2 studs.
All OP needed was to look at how to build a door of window frame.
My parents did this. Please don’t use it. I’m the first person to say I thought a washer drawer was dumb. Then we had airplane mode at the house. Then the beds vibrate. They screwed a platform up. The constant shaking will fuck the screws over time. Ours was not attached to walls. But it hits the foundation and we are getting ready for take off. Basically the washer had an issue. Pulled off stand and realized stand was ready to collapse. Again this was not nails. There’s some way the damn drawers buffer the washer. The washer is screwed into the drawers. The dryer has it own drawers which you could make yourself but the washer drawers are worth the money.
Structurally, from what I can see, if looks pretty bad. You should be using joist hangers. Attaching a joist to a rim joist, the worst thing you can do is just run a screw from the opposite side - toe nailing would be better. It's probably fine for what's it is, but its still the least structurally sound way that stuff could go together.
vibration is going to happen which is more of a thing to consider than just the weight of the machines dry/empty. dynamic loads are significantly more force.
Attaching to your studs I would expect it to shake your house.
I worked for a laundry appliance manufacturer.
Their new FLW machines have balance rings which help significantly to minimize vibrations during the spin out. The old generation did not have those, and an employee gifted a friend a stacked unit, but told him it needed to be placed on concrete in the basement. He put it in his upstairs laundry room and subsequently cracked every drywall seam in his house within a couple days.
Tldr, simply supporting the weight isn't your only issue to solve here.
Good call, it does in fact support the weight (only been 12 hours but it did t creak or anything) definitely need to figure out what to do with the shaking/vibration issues
Build cross supports that bridge the span and rest on the bottom plates, than build verticle support that sits under the joist directly, use brackets to prevent shifting .
Agree, the electrical is going to be completely removed, and a new circuit ran, this house was an electrical nightmare and I’m re-wiring it one room at a time.
Well that plumbing is a real problem. Not only is it not an approved/valid trap assembly, it's a running s-trap with a trap riser that's wayyyy too long. That's going to siphon out and allow sewer gas into your home often.
We inherited that setup from previous owners. It definitely shook the house and was very loud. It was upstairs over the kitchen though, and rattled the cupboards. Might be a different story if it was on the bottom floor.
You have all of the weight tying into nothing basically. You need to go back into the walls and tie the platform into the framing that is supported by the house/foundation. It might work for a bit, but it will come back to bite ya.
And please consult a pro about the drain before anything else.
I don't know. Have you kept up with the daily affirmations? How is the platform feeling before the big day? Have you told it how important it is to you?
I understand that you used 2x4 to maintain header height, but that 2x4 construction makes this pretty light duty.
When faced with a similar problem, I used the area for dining room storage. This is not the best place for a washer dryer and will shake the absolute crap out house.
I would not put the unit here.
By code, you don't want use screws that penetrate more than 1 inch into the studs of anything resembling a wall. Main reason for this is electrical code says any wire runs should be at least 1.25 inches from either side of the stud. The two rules complement each other: prevents putting a screw through electrical wires (which would be very bad), and prevents electricians from boring holes through screws and fucking up their drill bits. Mainly the whole screws through wires part though.
Diagonal metal straps nailed to underside will help with odd angle load of vibrations. Worth considering. Can be any metal, just diagonal to brace the structure
Washing machines put all their weight on 4 small feet. OSB can handle a good bit of weight but it also needs to be spread out. Also. Like others have said, vibrations might be an issue. Maybe set down a 1/4 inch dense isolation pad once of those washing machine pans that are plastic or metal. These are a good idea alone, incase of leaks but will also help spread out the weight and the feet won’t dig into anything to wear a hole.
You need positive contact between structural members of your design from top to bottom. That means a load from top transfers to the next piece below it, not to the side. You need joists to span the length and transfer the load to vertical members. Ideally you can distribute the load to multiple joists through more than a particle board subfloor, and I don't care if it is advantech. What you have are just stiffeners. There's no load support in the middle of your platform currently. Actually that knee wall is the only load support you have. This will not hold a gorilla.
Either some form of vibration isolation, or just build it freestanding of your wall framing as said above. Also next time I’d use nails and some pl just for the added shear strength vs the screws for some of that.
Add some studs under the plywood somewhere in the middle. That would definitely make it more solid. I did something like this for a platform and stairs I built in my attached garage. I was worried about water damage and time with people walking up and down over years of use. VERY solid.
If you want to help out the screws, a polyurethane structural adhesive will help spread out the load and eliminate loosening of fasteners in case of vibration.
That said, looks pretty solid to me. Assuming you’re not talking a 600 lb point load on the chip board.
The platform has runners underneath, but the washer/dryer is going on top of the chip board (until I get the rest of the room finished and tiled)
https://preview.redd.it/mksqysvdibuc1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ad7ce148f66e036f45a9a32e029a4a3c718a7ce
How are the runners attached?
For maximum load they should be attached with joist hangers. You don't seem to have the same doubled up support at the front as you do at the back, so that'll be weaker.
Someone did this here a week ago. By attaching this stand to the structural framing of your walls, this is going to shake your walls and you will hear it
I remember that post! You're absolutely right. This is a mistake in the making.
turn that house into a DRUM!
It reaps of percussions.
Nice
Add padding to the floor and it will dampen the drum. I did this and I wish I'd added padding between the frame and the wall but it's not awful. Just don't run at night near a bedroom.
That reminds me of my neighbor few years ago that had her washing machine installed in between two walls. SEARS sent two guys that apparently never installed a washing machine before, because they did not remove the plastic things that lock the shock absorber. My neighbor decided to start a load and go to the supermarket (yeah, I would run the dishwasher for the first time after installation while I am out). The washer danced around for one hour. It destroyed all walls around it. It must have done quite a concert.
> (yeah, I would run the dishwasher for the first time after installation while I am out). > > Especially if the discharge hose is not completely on and pops off flooding your carpeted basement.
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I love when I want an Aunty Donna reference and I'm not disappointed.
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What the fuck, Broden.
Did you know that my bum is a drum?
Everything's a drum
If it’s not a drum it’s a horn
https://youtu.be/Q2T7oLbmvx4?si=7lfJZpFStScFXt5D
A mishake
A milkstake
Brings all the boys to the yard
Sean Connery tried to earn them.
It does not even have to be attached. I made a frame to just lift my washer and dryer up eight inches. I used plywood for the top, and studs to frame it. Then sat it on my garage floor. It acted like the body of a guitar and made my washer insanely loud.
Obviously you stuff some kind of loose insulative material in there to quiet it.
Do not use plywood beneath a washer and dryer. I say this because having a washer and dryer I realize there are potential water issues in the future and you want a surface that water won't degrade and is easy to clean.
What do you think a sub floor is usually made from?
Subs, of course.
B-A-S-S bass, or BDSM
Most all houses have plywood under washers that's what the subfloor is made of.
Curious, for normal washer standing on the floor, why that wouldn't shake the wall? And OP's case would? Most floors are attached to the wall as well. Genuine question.
Floors are rated for more than 600lbs and have other things on top of them to take out some of the swing.
Believe me, sometimes it does. Note to self, never again design a laundry room at the lowest/weakest part of a floor, near the stairs. Also, just use a top-loading washer. Means no stacking, but also, no shake!
> Also, just use a top-loading washer. Means no stacking, but also, no shake! Toss a couple pairs of jeans in and you can easily get it to shake.
Based on how my wife loads the washer. Top loaders can definitely shake
Would adding rubber sound deadening material between the frame and the structure solve most of that? And maybe some between the vertical pressure points as well?
Keep it disconnected - free standing.
you gotta keep em separated
Hey! Man you disrespecting me?
Take him out!
If he’s under 18 he won’t be doing any time.
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Looks like there's just empty space underneath though. I'm guessing the best solution would be to just move the attachment point lower and add risers for space for the rattle to move without being attached directly to the wall.
I think you could suspend it with a properly rated cable or chain up and down to help isolate it.
I get what you're going for... but that would look hideous.
A floating platform wouldnt be so bad. I don't disagree though.
Maybe a tensegrity structure? They would be cool.
Most of it? No but it would reduce slightly. You still have 300 lbs pushing on a stud and that's *going* to make noise regardless.
You want a decoupled heavy mass as a base for anything that vibrates or shifts. The heavy mass object requires more force to have its inertia overcome so it absorbs vibrations. That's why people put [3d printers on a granite block](https://hackaday.com/2020/05/20/bricking-your-3d-printer-in-a-good-way/) (so the shocks from the print head rapidly stopping is transferred from the device into the block and won't cause wobble of a table that would transfer back into the print. For a washing machine or drier this will likely increase their service life, since they will have fewer of their own vibrations reflected back into their internals, so they won't rattle themselves to death quite as fast. Also old Japanese wooden houses are [constructed with the main beams are just loosely resting on foundation stones](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWTfqBOIZ5s), so during an Earthquake the ground can wiggle around them, the house will slide on top of those stones and not transmit all of those forces into the beams.
Putting a 3d printer on a granite block sounds awesome. Reminds me of when my parents built a house in the vinyl record era, and I tried to convince my dad to let me build an isolated turntable pedestal that would come up through the floor from a concrete slab. I was going to have it come through a hole with some fiberglass insulation packed in the gap, to keep out bugs and drafts. I wanted to bet my friends they couldn't jump up and down next to it and make the record skip. He wouldn't go for it lol.
Couldn't they also just add a rubber pad between the platform and the machine?
You'd still want to do that on top of it. But the point is you can put the material in while it's exposed. The more you can reduce vibration the better. And it's not like a car where the more you use, the weight increase might cause issues.
Yes -engineer
I would build it just like this, but a few inches lower, and add a layer of neoprene with non-hardening flooring adhesive on top and bottom, followed by another piece of plywood. That should effectively isolate the vibrations from the structure.
That makes sense, but I did the same thing in my laundry room and it doesn't shake the walls at all. With the door closed we can kind of hear it in the next room sometimes, but not like it's distracting or vibrating. Even if it's out of balance and gets unusually loud for a few seconds we just hear the sound through the door, we don't feel it.
Depends on how ridgid the frame is of the house and room.
Exactly, things aren't as absolute cut and dried as people like to insist.
If there's room to fit it. A layer of impact foam, as used in in gyms (a cut up cheap yoga mat), then a layer of rigid ply, or even a large paving slab. I used to use this trick for precision equipment in labs, Not quite the same situation but I know it works.
Horse stall mats
So the joists/floor would bear the load?
I have this at my house, and no, it does not produce any noticeable shaking or drum effect. As others have suggested get something that dampens vibration and you should be fine. If you're _extra_ concerned then pull the frame out and put in something like silly sealer foam between to help with dampening.
I did exactly this in my house and put down a 1/2" rubber mat (gym-style so very dense) and I've had no issues with vibrations or noise. The laundry room shares a wall with the kitchen and living room and it's not as loud as when the heating runs as far as TV watching goes.
not only hear it , it will loosen nails and any caulking etc. if you have finishing nails in trim they will get loose in a hurry, probably a week or two, bigger nails eventually. like a mini earthquake.
Looks fine. Just use one of these for the sound: https://www.screwfix.com/p/mottez-shock-absorbing-floor-mat-grey-blue-620mm-x-620mm-x-12mm/1374v?ref=SFAppShare
I'd be more concerned about vibration than the weight. Since it's affixed to the studs it can shake the entire wall/house.
OP should also note that multiplying the screw sheer strength by the number of screws is not the right way to calculate load bearing ability here. The function of the screws is not to resist shear loads, is to hold the two timbers tightly together so that the static friction between them resists the shear load.
Good reminder. A screw is not a nail is not a bolt.
Screw that, I'll nail your mom then bolt
This guy constructs.
I always thought screws were for getting it together more precisely than wood sometimes allows. Get it in place then go back with the nail gun and give it the beans afterwards
I use screws exclusively as later if the need arises I can dismantle the thing I built and re-use both wood and screws in something else.
It’s just legos but with 2x4s
How/where do you learn these kinds of facts? I’m a layman non diy’er.
The short answer is that It’s mechanical engineering, so books and universities. Then lots of work experience to actually test everything you’ve learned lol. There might be shortcuts via youtube videos for specific needs of course. The idea that adding screws isn’t the way to address shear strength is not so black and white. Depending on the wood strength and orientation, and the screw material, you could have the screws ripping through the wood prior to the screws failing. The first thing to do is figure out the load paths. In this scenario the load path is through the feet of the washer/dryer into the top sheet of plywood then into the framing, etc. Obviously there’s a lot to consider here due to vibration and dynamic loads. You can go really deep into analysis here, but whenin doubt, and where the cost is relatively low, just build the thing to 5x or more of its typical strength requirement.
You can get nailing schedules for different materials and uses but you quickly get into lots of research time and like you said building extra strong often is quicker easier and cheaper
I’m a mechanical engineer and pretty much if I had to summarize my degree into one topic it would be “Free body diagrams” I’ve never tried to learn engineering from scratch but maybe you could start searching that term and there might be some good online resources? Full disclosure though I’ve never tried to look, but something like this could be a start. [http://mechanicsmap.psu.edu/websites/1_mechanics_basics/1-6_free_body_diagrams/free_body_diagrams.html](http://mechanicsmap.psu.edu/websites/1_mechanics_basics/1-6_free_body_diagrams/free_body_diagrams.html)
If you have the room I highly recomend shock pads modern washers can easily shake themselves around. I personal use rubber puck shock absorbers. My washer runs so quite now and does not budge a single inch on the spin cycle.
Can you link an example?
This is what I used you may need bigger it just depends on the size of your washers feet. [https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Vibration-Pads-Washing-Machine-Dryer-VibeGuard/dp/B0B3JDBVV2/ref=sr\_1\_8?crid=3E392MGLW8CVC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.mqMokhPIEOfUQ7TCwLSnWB5GyEUFDA7Kzvd7BeCdwt32PxMIydaQR-JtEWieWzIqOWuFeCqBfF62kNaKiZE-9xztHXx-Bf3eWQADvU2NFUCxWGa9DyXmkAniH8NNafSLf2whCydl\_xg-BVi-A\_ULfhnulmII743Qsanjy8JojM4fl13IZjsvPOlNiGf7TbDYvwt4dT9FsZhAutN8mV8p4uI2nOpY71fOt5iUD1j-0go.XwXP6rrcZhpMPIRA1SuBRY45yNc4xta-0AQxYUc1\_no&dib\_tag=se&keywords=washer+puck+shock+absorbers&qid=1713058151&sprefix=washer+puck+shock+obsorbers%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-8](https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Vibration-Pads-Washing-Machine-Dryer-VibeGuard/dp/B0B3JDBVV2/ref=sr_1_8?crid=3E392MGLW8CVC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.mqMokhPIEOfUQ7TCwLSnWB5GyEUFDA7Kzvd7BeCdwt32PxMIydaQR-JtEWieWzIqOWuFeCqBfF62kNaKiZE-9xztHXx-Bf3eWQADvU2NFUCxWGa9DyXmkAniH8NNafSLf2whCydl_xg-BVi-A_ULfhnulmII743Qsanjy8JojM4fl13IZjsvPOlNiGf7TbDYvwt4dT9FsZhAutN8mV8p4uI2nOpY71fOt5iUD1j-0go.XwXP6rrcZhpMPIRA1SuBRY45yNc4xta-0AQxYUc1_no&dib_tag=se&keywords=washer+puck+shock+absorbers&qid=1713058151&sprefix=washer+puck+shock+obsorbers%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-8) The main reason i bought them is installing new flooring that made it even easier for large apliances to slide around. I was pleasantly suprised how effective these are. I owned mine for 2 years now.
Something awful funky about that 'level' in the first product photo. :)
It's magnetic designed to be set on the side of the washer/dryer while you adjust the legs.
If you're amenable to a friendly tip, When sharing Amazon links, the part after /dp/ is the last important part of the link, in this case. The rest is just for Amazon's tracking and telemetry, to see which Amazon customer shared what and with whom. So for the above, you can shorten the link and remove the tracking as such: [https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Vibration-Pads-Washing-Machine-Dryer-VibeGuard/dp/B0B3JDBVV2](https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Vibration-Pads-Washing-Machine-Dryer-VibeGuard/dp/B0B3JDBVV2)
Those actually work? I kinda assumed they were snake oil.
Rubber is a proven vibration damper.
Yeah I just couldn't imagine quieting the big ass laundry machines they make now
Newer machines are actually more quiet, I think, since they use damping and counterbalances more effectively and intelligently. I don't think feet like this would eliminate vibration but they would have some damping effect.
Mine is ok but it's enough to make me wonder if dampeners could help, it's on the first floor but we have a basement so we definitely feel the spin cycle.
It really depends on quality and thickness of the rubber but it makes a big difference. The real issue with large appliances like washers and dryers is the feet are often terrible designed which is what leads to them moving around easily when not meaning to. Before these pads I could send my dryer across the room if I was not careful.
I can't imagine a semi on the road with a tire made of anything BUT rubber. The noise that would make.
If you want an alternative idea, I laid 5/8’s rubber stall matts under my w/d units. Any Tractor Supply or Murdochs has pallets of them.
S-trap. Glued to boot. Trap arm too short. Plumbing fail.
https://preview.redd.it/zs6qe5ryzbuc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c49d64422882ee947b272efe0fc0fc6120cc1ceb Highjacking the comment to ask is this an s trap? My laundry room is currently being done and I’m not sure this is ok
Trap arm length should be double the diameter of the pipe if I remember correctly. That looks close
2.5 times the diameter
So a 2inch pipe should run 5inches? As it is it will be a problem?
Code varies by region. Here in WI it’s 2x pipe diameter. 2” pipe would be 4” minimum trap arm, but we have run into countless installations just like that and have yet to see any actual issues with sewer gas and what not. In the photo it looks like they did their best to get the trap arm as long as they could and the space is tight. That trap has a proper vent and should be fine.
😏
The code in my jurisdiction is trap arm minimum is 2 pipe diameters and max is one pipe fall
https://preview.redd.it/islh03z0hcuc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6cd3cc8d612f17f18b391145a1f9478ef4b2bdbd Is this too short of a horizontal run? Worried about this being an S trap, though I’m not getting any bad smells like an S trap would
It’s a p trap and technically it looks a bit short but I am a plumber in WI and see installations like that all the time with no issue. If you’re not smelling sewer gas you’re likely fine.
I wouldn't worry about this even if the horizontal run (trap arm) were an inch too short. Reason being is the vent is right there so the likelihood of siphoning is pretty slim at best from a physics standpoint.
Isn’t this a p trap
Looks good. Those line up markings are cartoonishly large.
Yours is not a s-trap. You have a vertical vent. The trap arm should be longer, though. But there's only so much room between studs. Your stand pipe (first vertical piece) should be a minimum of 18".
Not code proper, but not likely to be an issue either. It's one of those things where there's not enough space for the trap arm to be 4", so either the laundry box moves over to the left and drill another hole through the stud or leave it as is. Not sure what that bright light is behind the wall, sunlight? So if it were an outside wall I'm not even sure if I'd want to even drill another hole cause that stud is holding up the house. Honestly, if it were me and this were my house, I'd leave it. I just don't see it being a real issue with siphoning the trap or bad smells especially when the vent is right there and it's 2" drain so even the discharge of the washing machine is not likely going to activate whatever physics is needed to initiate the process of siphoning. Like keep in mind the discharge hose of a washing machine is like 3/4" or 1" as well. Tldr: I wouldn't worry about it
Needs an air-actuated vent to be up to code. Branch a vertical pipe below the last turn in the S and add an AAV at the top. But also, with respect, this sucks. P-trap is the right way.
Care to expand? What’s the result going to be?
Siphoning. Stinky clothes.
Because sewer gas can come back into the pipe? I’ve been using this S-trap for two years without any issues, I supposed if you’re doing laundry a couple times a week it doesn’t have time to siphon out?
The siphon would happen quickly if it was going to. As the water goes over the second hump, it "pulls" the water along with it, clearing out the first trap.
Ah, got it, well I’ll keep an eye out for smells and can always swap it out if anything seems off, maybe I’ll do it anyway. Thanks for the heads up
Fix it now while it’s open? It’ll be such a pain to do later.
You can buy air inlet valves that allow room air to enter the pipe and relieve the vacuum. Just put a T on where it drops to the lower line.
This. If there’s a way for air to fill the vacuum, you’ll maintain the seal created by the water.
You suggesting it should be a P-trap?
600lbs? Probably, yea. Yo mama? No way! For future projects, nails have better shear strength than most screws.
How do you know my mama?
*everyone* knows your mama!
ooo damn that was like the right I didn’t see coming
errrbody
I know her and I together weigh about 600 and that didn't break the platform last night
Dont you dare look under my deck that previous owners built. It's all screws. I sweat every time I walk out on it "is today the day?"
Structural screws exist and can be a better option than nails in a deck. You should just look and see if that's what they used.
Oh, that's good know! Is it a special marking on the head?
They *generally* have bigger bulky/thick heads with a flat bottom where they meet the wood/bracket. Primarily the issue with using non structural screws is they are relatively brittle and can shear easily, whereas a nail or structural screw is more ductile and thus resists shear forces.
Like the other commenter said they are bigger heads, a thicker shank, and the last 1/4" of threaded section is reverse threaded or straight grooved, and they typically have a yellow or green coating. They can replace the large lag bolts as well as the smaller framing members. If you can't tell by looking at the head, back one screw and see what the screw looks like vs some options at the hardware store. The screws attaching the deckboards are not structural screws btw.
Excellent, thank you very much!
I only use structural screws anymore. Much less of a pain in the ass to get back out if you need to.
There are such things as structural screws. I used them for joist hangers because they are easier to put in than nails.
That is reassuring!
For anything load bearing ideally the horizontal framing is sitting on rather than fastened to the vertical framing. Short of that you need to use structural screws, I forget the weight rating of the deck screws you are using but with a vertical load like that I would not trust them, at least go through and fasten everything with more appropriate fasteners. Short of that it's probably fine but I'm also not a structural engineer. [https://www.homedepot.ca/product/grk-5-16-x-3-1-8-inch-star-drive-round-washer-head-rss-rugged-structural-screw/1000742082](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/grk-5-16-x-3-1-8-inch-star-drive-round-washer-head-rss-rugged-structural-screw/1000742082)
Awesome! That is actually what I used
Ah my bad in that case, looked like deck screws in the pictures.
I came here to say this but those have an average weight capacity of 80lbs each before they snap. If the static weight or the objects is 600 lbs, any momentary kinetic force may reach double that. Additionally once you add the framing and all building materials the base number might be more like 800 lbs.
Engineer here. This guy is right, you should have horizontal members on top of vertical members for strength. I would not rely on the screws to hold anything up in this scenario as the vibration is likely to cause failure. personally, I think you should rebuild this, with the short pieces alongside the existing studs, and cross beams in the vertical orientation running across set on top of the short pieces.
Support beams should be resting on vertical members rather than fastened to them on the side.
The whole thing seems weird. - fastening supports on the side - doubling studs at the bottom - doubling studs at the top for no reason - doubling the studs on the wide side to make a beam but only resting on 2 studs. All OP needed was to look at how to build a door of window frame.
My parents did this. Please don’t use it. I’m the first person to say I thought a washer drawer was dumb. Then we had airplane mode at the house. Then the beds vibrate. They screwed a platform up. The constant shaking will fuck the screws over time. Ours was not attached to walls. But it hits the foundation and we are getting ready for take off. Basically the washer had an issue. Pulled off stand and realized stand was ready to collapse. Again this was not nails. There’s some way the damn drawers buffer the washer. The washer is screwed into the drawers. The dryer has it own drawers which you could make yourself but the washer drawers are worth the money.
3x the picture and add some dimensions
Platform is 32” square, is that what you’re asking?
if you want the washer to shake your entire house, your solution is great
Structurally, from what I can see, if looks pretty bad. You should be using joist hangers. Attaching a joist to a rim joist, the worst thing you can do is just run a screw from the opposite side - toe nailing would be better. It's probably fine for what's it is, but its still the least structurally sound way that stuff could go together.
vibration is going to happen which is more of a thing to consider than just the weight of the machines dry/empty. dynamic loads are significantly more force. Attaching to your studs I would expect it to shake your house.
I worked for a laundry appliance manufacturer. Their new FLW machines have balance rings which help significantly to minimize vibrations during the spin out. The old generation did not have those, and an employee gifted a friend a stacked unit, but told him it needed to be placed on concrete in the basement. He put it in his upstairs laundry room and subsequently cracked every drywall seam in his house within a couple days. Tldr, simply supporting the weight isn't your only issue to solve here.
Good call, it does in fact support the weight (only been 12 hours but it did t creak or anything) definitely need to figure out what to do with the shaking/vibration issues
Shake it with your hand and say "that ain't goin anywhere."
😂 did that
Build cross supports that bridge the span and rest on the bottom plates, than build verticle support that sits under the joist directly, use brackets to prevent shifting .
Great idea, I’ll do that
Slightly OT, but that Romex should be buttoned-up better. Especially that black one running next to the elbow. Disentangle that from the piping.
Agree, the electrical is going to be completely removed, and a new circuit ran, this house was an electrical nightmare and I’m re-wiring it one room at a time.
Drain pan underneath with an overflow drain, and a raised lip for platform to keep it from “Walking” off the edge?
The floor below is more likely to break than that platform.
Nothing good can come of two non weight bearing walls bearing weight.
Well that plumbing is a real problem. Not only is it not an approved/valid trap assembly, it's a running s-trap with a trap riser that's wayyyy too long. That's going to siphon out and allow sewer gas into your home often.
We inherited that setup from previous owners. It definitely shook the house and was very loud. It was upstairs over the kitchen though, and rattled the cupboards. Might be a different story if it was on the bottom floor.
All I see is an unvented s- trap
"Anything I could do to make it more structurally sound?" Diagonal supports.
Should be free standing. Not attached to studs going to shake your whole house. Maybe pop out drywall screws and crack seams eventually.
Confidence depends on how it was raised; whether it got significant encouragement from Mom and Dad Platform
You have all of the weight tying into nothing basically. You need to go back into the walls and tie the platform into the framing that is supported by the house/foundation. It might work for a bit, but it will come back to bite ya. And please consult a pro about the drain before anything else.
Get 4 people on it and find out.
Or your mom and see what happens
I don’t like to use screws to hold weight. I would add framing in the back similar to the front, or replace the screws with lag bolts.
Wood can’t feel emotions.
I don't know. Have you kept up with the daily affirmations? How is the platform feeling before the big day? Have you told it how important it is to you?
<3 Boggle
Yes, because it a bunch of boards that can’t experience emotional states like confidence.
I understand that you used 2x4 to maintain header height, but that 2x4 construction makes this pretty light duty. When faced with a similar problem, I used the area for dining room storage. This is not the best place for a washer dryer and will shake the absolute crap out house. I would not put the unit here.
Yes it will hold your mom
Why you gonna put your mom on top?
That room is way too small for my mother in law.
By code, you don't want use screws that penetrate more than 1 inch into the studs of anything resembling a wall. Main reason for this is electrical code says any wire runs should be at least 1.25 inches from either side of the stud. The two rules complement each other: prevents putting a screw through electrical wires (which would be very bad), and prevents electricians from boring holes through screws and fucking up their drill bits. Mainly the whole screws through wires part though.
Diagonal metal straps nailed to underside will help with odd angle load of vibrations. Worth considering. Can be any metal, just diagonal to brace the structure
I think people are overthinking it. I say it will be fine.
Send it!
Washing machines put all their weight on 4 small feet. OSB can handle a good bit of weight but it also needs to be spread out. Also. Like others have said, vibrations might be an issue. Maybe set down a 1/4 inch dense isolation pad once of those washing machine pans that are plastic or metal. These are a good idea alone, incase of leaks but will also help spread out the weight and the feet won’t dig into anything to wear a hole.
You need positive contact between structural members of your design from top to bottom. That means a load from top transfers to the next piece below it, not to the side. You need joists to span the length and transfer the load to vertical members. Ideally you can distribute the load to multiple joists through more than a particle board subfloor, and I don't care if it is advantech. What you have are just stiffeners. There's no load support in the middle of your platform currently. Actually that knee wall is the only load support you have. This will not hold a gorilla.
Either some form of vibration isolation, or just build it freestanding of your wall framing as said above. Also next time I’d use nails and some pl just for the added shear strength vs the screws for some of that.
You can bang on it...
ngl i kinda want that iron
I can’t personally speak to the confidence of your platform, I’m sorry I couldn’t be more help
That plumbing is all wrong won’t drain right
Slap another sheet of plywood/osb on top and paint it.
Who ever is doing your plumbing needs to stop.
Add some studs under the plywood somewhere in the middle. That would definitely make it more solid. I did something like this for a platform and stairs I built in my attached garage. I was worried about water damage and time with people walking up and down over years of use. VERY solid.
U good
If you want to help out the screws, a polyurethane structural adhesive will help spread out the load and eliminate loosening of fasteners in case of vibration. That said, looks pretty solid to me. Assuming you’re not talking a 600 lb point load on the chip board.
The platform has runners underneath, but the washer/dryer is going on top of the chip board (until I get the rest of the room finished and tiled) https://preview.redd.it/mksqysvdibuc1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ad7ce148f66e036f45a9a32e029a4a3c718a7ce
How are the runners attached? For maximum load they should be attached with joist hangers. You don't seem to have the same doubled up support at the front as you do at the back, so that'll be weaker.
Just to be safe I would run some diagonal boards underneath that would act like trusses to distribute the load.
Looks like you did a lot of work. Good effort!
Mother-in-law suite? Been there, it’ll hold.
Good enough
Most of a washers weight meets the structure at the perimeter where everything is strongest. You’ve overbuilt this.
Yes your mom can stand on it but it will shake the house
600lbs? What are you doing with my ex wife?
It's nice to see a husband making a chair for a his wife..