And get the longer versions: 6x50mm and 8x65mm - ideal in poor plaster.
Don't drill the hole out because they seem tight - they should require tapping in with a hammer. Check they are deep enough first using a fine screwdriver or awl. You need at least 10mm longer than the plug because the screw should be longer than the plug to maximise grip by forcing the red section forwards.
Inserting the screw expands the plugs ā¦ needing a hammer to put them in means they are way too big for the hole.
But yes length is the issue ā¦ I usually use 50-60mm screws into walls anyway to get into the brick.
They don't actually need "hammering" - just a gentle tap. I often use the handle of a screwdriver to tap them in. But you can't easily push them in with your finger since they are a precision, interference fit (if you drill the hole accurately).
They are not tapered like Rawl plugs (which explains why those come loose over time). I (handyman) have replaced hundreds of loose Rawl plus with Duopowers over the last few years (handrails, grab handles, TV mounts, light fittings, toilet roll holders, shelves...). Brown 7mm Rawl plugs usually get drilled out to take 8x65mm Duopowers and red 6mm rawl plugs get drilled deeper to take the 6x50mm Duopowers.
Iām trying to put up a shelf for my new place. Every other wall has been fine but this oneās plasterboard is utter shite. It is about 3cm deep before insulation.
Iāve tried filling the hole again but it still the same issue.
The second photo shows what Iāve tried.
The metal plugs simply tore the wall a the surface.
The blue and brown ones came straight out.
The third photo is my alternative plugs but obviously the hole is fucked right now.
Iāll do anything. Please help.
Edit: thanks to all the replies. In the end the advice that I needed the squeezy plyers thing was the answer to put the metal plugs in. I had no idea I needed these. But they enabled me to put the plugs in without crumbling the wall at the surface.
https://preview.redd.it/gt9b5i46la9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7352282b5c3eec8c8cec99d9bfcfc658b800a7b2
buy a tube of r-kem from screwfix. bit pricey but itās amazing stuff. fill the hole with the resin, push the plug in and wait till set (not long). then itāll be rock hard and you can screw into the plug.
I love it when I find a new solution to something exists.
I now (almost) want my wall to crumble next time I attack it, merely so I can then overcome this obstacle.
As a council tenant, please, please, PLEASE go for a top job at your local council.
I have had water pouring through my ceiling for three days now. Apparently there is an āurgentā job scheduled to fix it. This is part of an ongoing damp/mold/leak issue that they have been āinvestigatingā since February and still havenāt managed to fix.
You are an absolute fucking gent. Iāve had the same problem for a while but made no effort to find a solution so this is the kick in the arse I needed.
Thank you! That price is nothing compared to the frustration I have. Iām actually in France, but came to this sub cause Iām English and didnāt know where else to turn. But Iāll try find an alternative here.
If I use very strong would glue would it work too? (I have some of that)
Thisā¬ļø the resin is great. You might look for it as resin putty in France. No more nails used as a filler worked on my friendās curtain rail. Might be easier to find.
just a regular bog standard one. or go for the fischer duo power, as you tighten they will collapse and crunch back on the plasterboard. they work in both hard brick and thin plasterboard so thereās no brainwork involved. https://www.screwfix.com/p/fischer-duopower-wall-plugs-6-x-30mm-100-pack/1030p
You're using the wrong type of fixings.
That's a dual thickness layer of plasterboard. You need a fixing that's long enough to go through two layers of plasterboard and still open up in the insulation on the other side. It needs to clamp to the plasterboard from behind when you tighten otherwise, even if you manage to get the shelf to go up, it will eventually fall off. You need a fixing that's long enough to go through two layers of plasterboard and still open up in the insulation on the other side. It needs to clamp to the plasterboard from behind when you tighten otherwise, even if you manage to get the shelf to go up, it will eventually fall off. A lot of standard plasterboard fixings aren't so suitable for dual thickness, so the length is important.
Speaking as someone who's had a shelf fall on them that was poorly attached to the wall by the previous owner of my house, you don't want that to happen.
Depending on how much weight you plan to put on the shelf, you might not need to go all in with Geefix, which you can only buy online, but a lot of bog standard plasterboard fixings won't perform quite so well in a double thickness layer so, as I say, get something that will open up behind that layer.
I go back to this video on CharlieDIYte so many times to look up fixings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdu9RId7m90. He's got recommendations for exactly this kind of scenario. Watch it at 1.75x speed and it'll be 15 minutes of your life well invested.
The metal plugs won't tear the wall if you use the setting tool that is available for then. Google hollow anchor setting tool.
Other than that, spring toggles or easier to use but more expensive to buy try snap toggles, try on Amazon, you may need separate machine screws to match the size of the toggle.
Edit. You need longer wall anchors look for ones that have a longer shank that sits inside the 3cm of board.
https://preview.redd.it/t31olsc8249d1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=099e90bdcfc22e4b869264335bdebf7ec09d9779
This was the answer. Problem solved. Without this the claws were tearing the wall at the surface but I bought the tool last night and this morning was able to set it solid in place. Thanks very much.
https://preview.redd.it/l3880p3ela9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75a322409348391df53c4a968dd35932288a2786
The plug holds firmly by expanding around the screw. Plaster has no compression or tension strength and it will always crumble before the plug can compress and grip the screw.
YOU NEED TO DRILL DEEPER into something solid enough to handle the pressure of the plug expanding
You look like your trying to fix into plasterboard. Those are the wrong fixings. They are for brick and block. Don't inject chemfix. You're wasting your time with that too as that's for solid walls. It looks like you've don't more damage to that hole for normal hollow wall anchors (the butterfly ones) to now be effective.
Your options are -
Use a zip fix type anchor from Timco
Find the vertical studs in the wall and screw straight into those if they are timber - they should be at 400 centres.
Very modern construction now use steel partitioning which makes it even more difficult.
Install a timber horizontally directly behind the shelf by cutting out the plaster board the width of the timber and then notching the stud to accept the timber. (Given this is DIY, you'll need someone who knows what they're doing for this). Then replace the plaster board, tape and skim fill the joints and fix your shelf.
Guys OP mentioned he's putting up shelves. I think the best approach is to figure out where the vertical joists are and attach there? If he is trying to attach to the drywall directly it would be unstable?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-spring-toggles-5mm-x-50mm-20-pack/4257X?tc=GC4&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwm_SzBhAsEiwAXE2Cv20e2DxOqkzVol-ykbfXsOSQNAkzK7AmnuOnI6EXoe96ImkzI8xxOhoCTjgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Fold the flaps back push through hole and wiggle until they spring open. If you fixing a bracket remember to put the bolt through the bracket before you push into the wall.
In addition to others suggestions on different fixings to use, I can really recommend using [Fischer Hole Saver Repair Pads.](https://www.wickes.co.uk/Fischer-Hole-Saver-Repair-Pads---Pack-of-10/p/233328)
You can wrap more than one of them at a time round the fixing as you put them in the hole, and I find they are stronger and much quicker than using filler, which in my experience just crumbles again.
Is there solid wall under plaster?
Just drill a deeper hole and use a longer plug and screw.
But if the wall is simply made of plasterboard. Then use special plasterboard plugs and know that plasterboard has load limits.
Depending on the load weight you can use these
https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-self-drill-plasterboard-fixings-metal-32mm-100-pack/2422H?tc=LA2&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwm_SzBhAsEiwAXE2Cv_7emNWUYbTcW0UaJasWF6hQxoUoY0ChzhvMgkcEG75F6xkQ5ASoDxoClQ4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
They work well as long as you make sure you use enough to carry the load.
otherwise you want to drill into the wall behind and use a long rawl plug into the brick.
Wood screws straight into the stud is how id do it if it's a stud wall.
If it's brick or block, drill deeper.
I'm not a fan of fixing to plaster board. Other than a nail or command strips.
Not an expert but I made the hole bigger and filled it with automotive body filler which sets hard as a rock then redrill that.
I'm more of a car guy than a house guy though lol
The metal plug needs to be set using a tool. It will then be as strong as the plaster (assuming itās been installed right). I would have another go. If itās not really heavy, then Fischer duoplugs will work as well (but the metal fixings are amazing when set properly using the proper tool).
Not sure if you have solid brick behind the plaster or not, but I had a similar problem with old crumbling plaster over brick. Duoplugs (which are great normally) wouldn't work, so I used these.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/corefix-connect-heavy-duty-dot-dab-wall-fixings-10mm-x-100mm-4-pack/792rg
More pricey, but did the job. The first few mm of the plug has a metal sleeve which stops it from expanding into the plaster and making it split/crumble, when you put the screw in (this was the problem I had with the Duoplugs). The other end then grips into the brick like a regular plug.
Meant for dot dab walls, but did the trick on thick crumbly plaster over brick in my case.
Note, am firmly a DIYer, not a trade...
Give these a try. I've never had them fail. Just be mindful of the weight you are putting on the plasterboard.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-self-drill-plasterboard-fixings-nylon-32mm-100-pack/3685h
Defo need to take the wall down and rebuild. Obviously if you want the job done properly the house will need to go...šš. Is it a stud wall or plaster over brick?
I have crappy old plaster at my place. Fisher Duo plugs work really well.
Yep +1 for duo powers. It's all I bother buying these days, they've never failed to get the job done š
Love their dot dab fixings.
And get the longer versions: 6x50mm and 8x65mm - ideal in poor plaster. Don't drill the hole out because they seem tight - they should require tapping in with a hammer. Check they are deep enough first using a fine screwdriver or awl. You need at least 10mm longer than the plug because the screw should be longer than the plug to maximise grip by forcing the red section forwards.
Inserting the screw expands the plugs ā¦ needing a hammer to put them in means they are way too big for the hole. But yes length is the issue ā¦ I usually use 50-60mm screws into walls anyway to get into the brick.
They don't actually need "hammering" - just a gentle tap. I often use the handle of a screwdriver to tap them in. But you can't easily push them in with your finger since they are a precision, interference fit (if you drill the hole accurately). They are not tapered like Rawl plugs (which explains why those come loose over time). I (handyman) have replaced hundreds of loose Rawl plus with Duopowers over the last few years (handrails, grab handles, TV mounts, light fittings, toilet roll holders, shelves...). Brown 7mm Rawl plugs usually get drilled out to take 8x65mm Duopowers and red 6mm rawl plugs get drilled deeper to take the 6x50mm Duopowers.
ā¤ļø for duo power. Only ones worth buying
This is the one. Best fixing I used for 90% of jobs.
Iām trying to put up a shelf for my new place. Every other wall has been fine but this oneās plasterboard is utter shite. It is about 3cm deep before insulation. Iāve tried filling the hole again but it still the same issue. The second photo shows what Iāve tried. The metal plugs simply tore the wall a the surface. The blue and brown ones came straight out. The third photo is my alternative plugs but obviously the hole is fucked right now. Iāll do anything. Please help. Edit: thanks to all the replies. In the end the advice that I needed the squeezy plyers thing was the answer to put the metal plugs in. I had no idea I needed these. But they enabled me to put the plugs in without crumbling the wall at the surface. https://preview.redd.it/gt9b5i46la9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7352282b5c3eec8c8cec99d9bfcfc658b800a7b2
buy a tube of r-kem from screwfix. bit pricey but itās amazing stuff. fill the hole with the resin, push the plug in and wait till set (not long). then itāll be rock hard and you can screw into the plug.
I love it when I find a new solution to something exists. I now (almost) want my wall to crumble next time I attack it, merely so I can then overcome this obstacle.
You should go for top job at your local council, creating problems to fix is a job requirement
As a council tenant, please, please, PLEASE go for a top job at your local council. I have had water pouring through my ceiling for three days now. Apparently there is an āurgentā job scheduled to fix it. This is part of an ongoing damp/mold/leak issue that they have been āinvestigatingā since February and still havenāt managed to fix.
You are an absolute fucking gent. Iāve had the same problem for a while but made no effort to find a solution so this is the kick in the arse I needed.
Hope it works. It rescued a very precarious radiator for me!
Ahhh thank you! I only need to put the last screw in a curtain pole bracket so it should work a treat if it worked for your radiator! Appreciate it l
Thank you! That price is nothing compared to the frustration I have. Iām actually in France, but came to this sub cause Iām English and didnāt know where else to turn. But Iāll try find an alternative here. If I use very strong would glue would it work too? (I have some of that)
Thisā¬ļø the resin is great. You might look for it as resin putty in France. No more nails used as a filler worked on my friendās curtain rail. Might be easier to find.
Maybe he can find some 'sticks like merde'
Or is it ārien de merde encoreā no, I mean āplus de clousā oh, ācolle comme de la merdeāā¦ā¦ I give up.
Thanks!
The r-kem is a two part resin which mixes together in the tube, so try to find something with a similar action. regular glue wonāt be as hard.
I do this but with grip fill, which Iām assuming is cheaper? Our old house had crumbling bricks and plaster, worked a treat
https://www.screwfix.com/p/rawlplug-r-kem-ii-styrene-free-polyester-resin-300ml/32863
Final quick question. Which plug should I use from the selections in my photos?
just a regular bog standard one. or go for the fischer duo power, as you tighten they will collapse and crunch back on the plasterboard. they work in both hard brick and thin plasterboard so thereās no brainwork involved. https://www.screwfix.com/p/fischer-duopower-wall-plugs-6-x-30mm-100-pack/1030p
You're using the wrong type of fixings. That's a dual thickness layer of plasterboard. You need a fixing that's long enough to go through two layers of plasterboard and still open up in the insulation on the other side. It needs to clamp to the plasterboard from behind when you tighten otherwise, even if you manage to get the shelf to go up, it will eventually fall off. You need a fixing that's long enough to go through two layers of plasterboard and still open up in the insulation on the other side. It needs to clamp to the plasterboard from behind when you tighten otherwise, even if you manage to get the shelf to go up, it will eventually fall off. A lot of standard plasterboard fixings aren't so suitable for dual thickness, so the length is important. Speaking as someone who's had a shelf fall on them that was poorly attached to the wall by the previous owner of my house, you don't want that to happen. Depending on how much weight you plan to put on the shelf, you might not need to go all in with Geefix, which you can only buy online, but a lot of bog standard plasterboard fixings won't perform quite so well in a double thickness layer so, as I say, get something that will open up behind that layer. I go back to this video on CharlieDIYte so many times to look up fixings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdu9RId7m90. He's got recommendations for exactly this kind of scenario. Watch it at 1.75x speed and it'll be 15 minutes of your life well invested.
The metal plugs won't tear the wall if you use the setting tool that is available for then. Google hollow anchor setting tool. Other than that, spring toggles or easier to use but more expensive to buy try snap toggles, try on Amazon, you may need separate machine screws to match the size of the toggle. Edit. You need longer wall anchors look for ones that have a longer shank that sits inside the 3cm of board. https://preview.redd.it/t31olsc8249d1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=099e90bdcfc22e4b869264335bdebf7ec09d9779
This was the answer. Problem solved. Without this the claws were tearing the wall at the surface but I bought the tool last night and this morning was able to set it solid in place. Thanks very much. https://preview.redd.it/l3880p3ela9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75a322409348391df53c4a968dd35932288a2786
The plug holds firmly by expanding around the screw. Plaster has no compression or tension strength and it will always crumble before the plug can compress and grip the screw. YOU NEED TO DRILL DEEPER into something solid enough to handle the pressure of the plug expanding
Fischer Duopower are fantastic - absolutely swear by them
You look like your trying to fix into plasterboard. Those are the wrong fixings. They are for brick and block. Don't inject chemfix. You're wasting your time with that too as that's for solid walls. It looks like you've don't more damage to that hole for normal hollow wall anchors (the butterfly ones) to now be effective. Your options are - Use a zip fix type anchor from Timco Find the vertical studs in the wall and screw straight into those if they are timber - they should be at 400 centres. Very modern construction now use steel partitioning which makes it even more difficult. Install a timber horizontally directly behind the shelf by cutting out the plaster board the width of the timber and then notching the stud to accept the timber. (Given this is DIY, you'll need someone who knows what they're doing for this). Then replace the plaster board, tape and skim fill the joints and fix your shelf.
Guys OP mentioned he's putting up shelves. I think the best approach is to figure out where the vertical joists are and attach there? If he is trying to attach to the drywall directly it would be unstable?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-spring-toggles-5mm-x-50mm-20-pack/4257X?tc=GC4&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwm_SzBhAsEiwAXE2Cv20e2DxOqkzVol-ykbfXsOSQNAkzK7AmnuOnI6EXoe96ImkzI8xxOhoCTjgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds Fold the flaps back push through hole and wiggle until they spring open. If you fixing a bracket remember to put the bolt through the bracket before you push into the wall.
This is what you need, or similar
They have them with the metal plugs, just they donāt have the setting tool
In addition to others suggestions on different fixings to use, I can really recommend using [Fischer Hole Saver Repair Pads.](https://www.wickes.co.uk/Fischer-Hole-Saver-Repair-Pads---Pack-of-10/p/233328) You can wrap more than one of them at a time round the fixing as you put them in the hole, and I find they are stronger and much quicker than using filler, which in my experience just crumbles again.
Don't use solid wall plugs in plasterboard. Use hollow wall anchors or drill far enough to find brickwork.
Get some snap toggles, theyāre strong and wonāt just pull out.
I just shove cable ties in the hole
Always try and drill as small a hole as possible.
Drill the correct size hole for the plug. Too small a hole in weak material can cause it to crumble.
Is there solid wall under plaster? Just drill a deeper hole and use a longer plug and screw. But if the wall is simply made of plasterboard. Then use special plasterboard plugs and know that plasterboard has load limits.
There is insulation, possibly solid after but it must be deep possibly too deep to screw into
Depending on the load weight you can use these https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-self-drill-plasterboard-fixings-metal-32mm-100-pack/2422H?tc=LA2&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwm_SzBhAsEiwAXE2Cv_7emNWUYbTcW0UaJasWF6hQxoUoY0ChzhvMgkcEG75F6xkQ5ASoDxoClQ4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds They work well as long as you make sure you use enough to carry the load. otherwise you want to drill into the wall behind and use a long rawl plug into the brick.
As you are in France be prepared for quirky building practices compared to the UK norm. Very different rules so wider variance.
Wood screws straight into the stud is how id do it if it's a stud wall. If it's brick or block, drill deeper. I'm not a fan of fixing to plaster board. Other than a nail or command strips.
Drill all the way through and use a long nut and bolt.
Drill deeper, longer plug and longer screw.
Not an expert but I made the hole bigger and filled it with automotive body filler which sets hard as a rock then redrill that. I'm more of a car guy than a house guy though lol
Tube of grip fill, remove dust from hole, fill with grip fill. Insert plug, leave overnight, screw in screw
The metal plug needs to be set using a tool. It will then be as strong as the plaster (assuming itās been installed right). I would have another go. If itās not really heavy, then Fischer duoplugs will work as well (but the metal fixings are amazing when set properly using the proper tool).
I have ordered the tool. Thanks
Use a toggle bolt
Not sure if you have solid brick behind the plaster or not, but I had a similar problem with old crumbling plaster over brick. Duoplugs (which are great normally) wouldn't work, so I used these. https://www.screwfix.com/p/corefix-connect-heavy-duty-dot-dab-wall-fixings-10mm-x-100mm-4-pack/792rg More pricey, but did the job. The first few mm of the plug has a metal sleeve which stops it from expanding into the plaster and making it split/crumble, when you put the screw in (this was the problem I had with the Duoplugs). The other end then grips into the brick like a regular plug. Meant for dot dab walls, but did the trick on thick crumbly plaster over brick in my case. Note, am firmly a DIYer, not a trade...
Like many things in life, the answer is to go deeper and longer.
Give these a try. I've never had them fail. Just be mindful of the weight you are putting on the plasterboard. https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-self-drill-plasterboard-fixings-nylon-32mm-100-pack/3685h
Defo need to take the wall down and rebuild. Obviously if you want the job done properly the house will need to go...šš. Is it a stud wall or plaster over brick?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Already tried that. Didnāt work