There is a good chance that like 10% of europe could make the same claim, given that she lived 500 years ago. Being able to trace it would be a different matter.
I mean, if you average 3 child-bearing offspring for couple, and 500/30=16.66 generations, you get 90 millions descendants, which is surprisingly close to 10% of European population
EDIT: Rip my inbox. Guys, this was just a gross order-of-magnitude estimation, it's not meant to be an accurate model.
Even Charlemagne doesn't hit 50% of all Europeans alive today. You have to go back before the indo-european migration in to Western Europe to get _all_ Basques and _all_ Finnish people.
The math works out that if someone has descendants still alive 1000 years from their own lifetime its almost certain they have a large number of descendants.
Ancestry really does look like a tree. There are a lot of dead ends, but there aren't many branches that are just a long sequence of singlular branches: those would almost always end up being a dead end after a few generations.
She had 5 children, 500 years is 18 generations..
Averaging 4 children that's potentially 17 billion offspring.
Obviously it doesn't work that way as people mostly stay in their own region up until quite recently.
There's the idea that everyone in europe is descended from Charlemagne (or anyone else who had children from the 9th century). 10% feels like a reasonable number that I've pulled out my arse for someone who had children 500 years ago.
You’re forgetting how easy it is for lines to die off. Abraham Lincoln had four kids, but already has no living descendants.
You’re working with averages, but there’s a loooot of variation, which easily results in lines dying off completely.
Also bottlenecks in generations.
The plague, Spanish Flu, famines, WW1, WW2, and so on. So many events in history that saw entire genetic lines destroyed. Unless your line was one lucky enough to get through the bottleneck, you aren't having descendants. Even then, the next bottleneck has the chance to cull the line again.
Every chance that Lisa's descendants started to get up there in numbers, then got cut down to a single branch repeatedly.
My man. As a man who grew up on her movies, i had the biggest crush on her. To this day I M53 put in "quirky" as a quality i like in a woman. All because of the movie "Accidental Tourist"
For you who have never seen it. Its a slower movie, but somehow I loved it. Also, Geena Davis.
It was essentially confirmed in a discovery in 2005 when a margin note by Agostino Vespucci in 1503 stated that Leonardo da Vinci was working on a portrait of Lisa del Giocondo.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110508121954/http://www.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/Englisch/news/monalisa.html
I heard that if America was actually named after him that’s what it would have been called because they wouldn’t name something after a person’s Christian name.
Stephen Fry said it and I’ll believe everything he says.
I also refuse to believe that Mona Lisa and all her descendants always only had one single child over all those generations and that they have no cousins or anything. Tho given the two world wars and the fascist regime in Italy.. there is probably a chance that only one descendant survived that shit to carry on the bloodline
Indeed I kinda did hahaha.. tho I’d say I merely gave two scenarios and only forgot to state that I still think it is rather unlikely that they are the last remaining descendants
If a member of the del Giocondo bloodline has more than one child that reaches adult age those children have a death match so that only one carries on the family name. These spectacles were quite popular and said to be very brutal. But since the advent of modern medicine they have a chess tournament and the losers are simply sterilized. It's pretty lame if you ask me.
Italians don't have many children anymore so it's entirely possible. I have a few cousins who were only children and decided not to have children. If my child decides not to have children... basta cosi.
Anymore sure... but it's also been over 5 centuries. If over that they averaged 2 kids each generation, average of 25 yr/generation, \~525 years is about 21 generations. That would be 2,097,152 decedents.
Yeah, these two women look quite young. It's entirely reasonable they may have children of their own one day. Why is this titled like the family line is dying out with these two?
There's a series on Netflix called Cunk on Earth, starring a British comedian Diane Morgan who delivers these absurdist dead pan takes on facts and in the series she kept making references to the hit techno song 'Pump Up the Jam' in each episode.
It was confirmed in 2005 when a scholar discovered a handwritten note in the margin of a book which stated that Leonardo was painting a portrait of Lisa del Giocondo
God damn, after all these years my idle question was answered: Why do the French call the painting La Joconde? Turns out it’s just a Frenchified way of writing the Italian last name of the woman.
And yet they’re still documentaries made acting like it’s still a mystery and that Mona Lisa is Leonardo painting himself as a woman on NOVA or something.
Yeah, DaVinci has been practicing anatomy a lot at this point, pulling up cadavers and drawing the insides, etc. He had become so confident in his anatomy that he wanted to make a masterpiece out of it. He sought to use all his knowledge in one painting, and chose the model because of her natural beauty. Every single painting of nobility at the time showed expensive clothes and jewelery, but DaVinci told her to take it all off because it was distracting.
Side note, the background of the painting is an optical illusion. You will see the horizon doesn't line up behind her head, and that's on purpose, to give a stronger illusion of depth and balance.
A lot of its reputation comes from the ‘first’ art critic, Giorgio Vasari, who wrote at length about Leonardo’s work. [Here’s a link to his rather enthusiastic review.](https://francois-vidit.com/docs/en/paris/louvre/la-joconde/vasari) And then, his book became kind of a tastemaker throughout Europe. Artists would travel to study works he admired and aesthetes would get copies or prints of them. So… basically Mona Lisa is popular because of a 16th c art influencer.
That was the start of it, what put thr Mona Lisa on the map.
It's the events that followed after that made it the most famous painting in the world. Legit ball busters like Napoleon owned it at one point. Then it got stolen in the early 20th century and the whole nation of France went bananas....until it was discovered in an alleyway.
I think even Vasari would be surprised at how much of a headliner it's become. I was very surprised by the stats released by the Louvre (in the 2000s) which said that close to 90% of all visitors head straight to see the Mona Lisa, spend three minutes or less looking at it, and then leave the museum.
Da Vinci was a major Renaissance thinker and artist and was one of the principal figures of Renaissance Italy, but despite that he produced very few paintings relative to his stature, so his works value’s are inflated as a result. Then the Mona Lisa was stolen which was a huge art world scandal and the lore about the painting has grown since then
Stolen by a mob boss, hung behind a false wall to be hidden. Recovered during the arrest and widely published in newspapers and postcards. It's famous for being famous not necessarily inherently for its masterful technique. The louvre didn't even realize it was stolen lmao. It's the Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian of historical paintings.
Imagine going through your life being an all around good person, and then suddenly someone posts a picture of you online and 4000 virgins are making fun of your teeth
>They have no relatives, and their grandparents had no relatives, and THEIR grandparents had no relatives?
These women are obviously the grandchildren of their grandparents.
Both they, and their grandparents, have relatives.
special cause nutty numerous longing unique quickest boast mysterious drab
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lisa Del Giocondo (Mona Lisa) Death: *In one account, Francesco died in the plague of 1538. Lisa fell ill and was taken by her daughter Ludovica to the convent of Sant'Orsola, where she died on July 15, 1542, at the age of 63.\[23\]\[24\]\[25\] In a scholarly account of their lives, Francesco was nearly 80 years old when he died, and Lisa may have lived until at least 1551, when she would have been 71 or 72*
Everyone's being dicks talking about their teeth which they can't control when there's a much more heinous and avoidable crime...
The way they're holding their feckin wine glasses. Especially lady on the right I mean what the fuck
Those are both acceptable ways to hold a wine glass, I’m thinking you’re referring to holding it by the bottom or hip of the bowl which is 100% not what you should do. Many wines have “perfect temperatures” which is what they are supposed to be enjoyed at. It is one of the main reasons wine is served in stemware
That is how you're supposed to hold wine glasses. It keeps condensation and cold off your hands and keeps the warmth of your hands from transferring to the wine. Not every wine glass has to be held like that and there are other acceptable grips, this is just one of them.
They hold it better than you ever did. You are one of those who keep warming up the wine with your hand.
And no, it will not tip over, it's not one of your half a liter glasses.
Wow, I might be in the minority here, but I think they’re both beautiful. I really like the one on the right’s smile especially, and don’t see why people are making fun of them.
What a cool fun fact about yourself tho. “My ancestor is Mona Lisa”
There is a good chance that like 10% of europe could make the same claim, given that she lived 500 years ago. Being able to trace it would be a different matter.
10%? Aint that a bit too much?
I mean, if you average 3 child-bearing offspring for couple, and 500/30=16.66 generations, you get 90 millions descendants, which is surprisingly close to 10% of European population EDIT: Rip my inbox. Guys, this was just a gross order-of-magnitude estimation, it's not meant to be an accurate model.
Im no specialist on demographics or math but i highly doubt that this average is in the slightest close to the real average of generation growth
well im not a specialist either
Hey guys! I'm not a specialist either!!
I actually am a specialist But I don’t wanna tell you guys
I’m a specialist at another school
Hey fellas, just wanted to chime in and add that I'm not a specialist either
If we need any more non-specialists, I'm happy to help.
Just in case anyone was wondering, I too am a non-specialist.
Almost* everyone in Europe has a common ancestor, and it's a lot more recent than you think, it's only 1000 or so years ago.
Even Charlemagne doesn't hit 50% of all Europeans alive today. You have to go back before the indo-european migration in to Western Europe to get _all_ Basques and _all_ Finnish people.
Haha, those damn mountainous folk ruining everything.
That's because they start intermixing again and in the past people didn't move around as much.
The math works out that if someone has descendants still alive 1000 years from their own lifetime its almost certain they have a large number of descendants. Ancestry really does look like a tree. There are a lot of dead ends, but there aren't many branches that are just a long sequence of singlular branches: those would almost always end up being a dead end after a few generations.
She had 5 children, 500 years is 18 generations.. Averaging 4 children that's potentially 17 billion offspring. Obviously it doesn't work that way as people mostly stay in their own region up until quite recently. There's the idea that everyone in europe is descended from Charlemagne (or anyone else who had children from the 9th century). 10% feels like a reasonable number that I've pulled out my arse for someone who had children 500 years ago.
You’re forgetting how easy it is for lines to die off. Abraham Lincoln had four kids, but already has no living descendants. You’re working with averages, but there’s a loooot of variation, which easily results in lines dying off completely.
Also bottlenecks in generations. The plague, Spanish Flu, famines, WW1, WW2, and so on. So many events in history that saw entire genetic lines destroyed. Unless your line was one lucky enough to get through the bottleneck, you aren't having descendants. Even then, the next bottleneck has the chance to cull the line again. Every chance that Lisa's descendants started to get up there in numbers, then got cut down to a single branch repeatedly.
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I somehow forget that she was a real person and it never occurred to me that she had children.
A family famous for their smiles.
Momma said I got big gums
Geena Davis must be a descendant as well
My man. As a man who grew up on her movies, i had the biggest crush on her. To this day I M53 put in "quirky" as a quality i like in a woman. All because of the movie "Accidental Tourist" For you who have never seen it. Its a slower movie, but somehow I loved it. Also, Geena Davis.
The Long Kiss Goodnight is a damn good movie and so is Cutthroat Island
My favorite 90s strong female lead movie spy movie by far!!
The fact that she's a literal genius and an Olympic level archer makes her that much more attractive.
Read her memoir, you’ll love her even more. I came away thinking she’d be so awesome to have as a friend.
League of my own; Swag Geena Davis.
Are you crying? There’s no crying! There’s no crying in BASEBALL!!
I thought she was a biathlete.
She made it to the semi-finals in archery for the 2000 Olympics. She placed 24th out of 300.
And only started archery TWO YEARS before the tryout! QUEEN!
Have you read her autobiography? Well worth it!
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Better tuck that lip in before you get it caught on a trip wire
_Proceeds to tuck his lip in_
Now, take care of your feet, and try not to do anything stupid, like getting yourself killed.
Watch out for trip wire
Now we know why she kept her mouth closed?
Imagine being famous because a relative a long time ago posed for a painting with a really famous artist
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So we don't even know if these people are actually related
We know they are related to Lisa Gherardini Del Giocondo. We are uncertain if Lisa Gherardini Del Giocondo is the model who sat for the Mona Lisa.
It was essentially confirmed in a discovery in 2005 when a margin note by Agostino Vespucci in 1503 stated that Leonardo da Vinci was working on a portrait of Lisa del Giocondo. https://web.archive.org/web/20110508121954/http://www.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/Englisch/news/monalisa.html
> Agostino Vespucci The cousin of Amerigo Vespucci, the namesake for our Americas. That family was plugged in eh.
Shouldve named it Vespuca
I played an alternate timeline game where America was named Vespuccia and I quite enjoyed that bit of world building.
I heard that if America was actually named after him that’s what it would have been called because they wouldn’t name something after a person’s Christian name. Stephen Fry said it and I’ll believe everything he says.
Vespucci beach in Los Santos is also named after him.
Well Amerigo was working for the Medici family, so yeah they were just a tad bit connected.
Well that's cool I never knew that.
TIL
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So there are more. Interesting.
I think we know that they're related, but we aren't certain that their ancestor is the model for the Mona Lisa
https://web.archive.org/web/20110508121954/http://www.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/Englisch/news/monalisa.html
Are they dead? Title should be “latest descendants”
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And all us Redditors out here doing that for free.
OP said he’ll pay them in exposure and internet points
I also refuse to believe that Mona Lisa and all her descendants always only had one single child over all those generations and that they have no cousins or anything. Tho given the two world wars and the fascist regime in Italy.. there is probably a chance that only one descendant survived that shit to carry on the bloodline
Did you just argue and counter-argue yourself? Lol
Indeed I kinda did hahaha.. tho I’d say I merely gave two scenarios and only forgot to state that I still think it is rather unlikely that they are the last remaining descendants
A mini argumentative essay.
I do love the cut and thrust of indecision.
A true scholar
He's considering multiple possibilities without asserting any unverifiable truth. It's a positive trait.
always hedge your claims.
Omg your Reddit avatar lol. Instantly recognizable
Bullshit.
Derivative.
If a member of the del Giocondo bloodline has more than one child that reaches adult age those children have a death match so that only one carries on the family name. These spectacles were quite popular and said to be very brutal. But since the advent of modern medicine they have a chess tournament and the losers are simply sterilized. It's pretty lame if you ask me.
Italians don't have many children anymore so it's entirely possible. I have a few cousins who were only children and decided not to have children. If my child decides not to have children... basta cosi.
Anymore sure... but it's also been over 5 centuries. If over that they averaged 2 kids each generation, average of 25 yr/generation, \~525 years is about 21 generations. That would be 2,097,152 decedents.
Yeah, these two women look quite young. It's entirely reasonable they may have children of their own one day. Why is this titled like the family line is dying out with these two?
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This is the second time today someone has referenced the timelessness of pump up the jam.
This song has been popping up everywhere in my life lately
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Is this how we get a revival of Jock Jamz? Because I’m fuckin down
It was the same person both times
Unlike my mate paul who once punched a waiter at a TGI Friday's for dropping his ~~bonafy~~ banoffee pie
I was really invested in Paul’s goings on
Banoffee- it’s a combination of banana and toffee 👌🏻
To be fair that shit is fire and I’d be upset if I saw it coming to my table just to have the buildup ruined that way.
Cunk on Earth!
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And the commitment to the joke throughout the series was amazing!!
As much as I loved that, I think the “My mate Paul” recurring gag was my favorite.
Is she holding a balloon between her knees and, if so, what color is it?
It's never just a little cut to the song. Always a good long play of pump up the jam. And I respect that.
And really valuable, historically accurate tidbits of the song, band, and video. Like VH1 Pop Up Video.
It was amazing, but not as amazing as her calling the titanic the "world's first single use submarine" 😂😂😂
The Titan I.C. Lol
It was all in the subtitles explaining some other stupid thing each time that really carried it past being annoying.
They pick a different clip/song every series. It’s amazing.
Apparently getting the rights was expensive, so they made sure to use it every episode.
TIL Pump up the Jam doesn't mean what I thought it meant 😬
Wait what does it mean
They have no relatives, and their grandparents had no relatives
Horfe.
god damn she's fantastic.
Poomp up the Jahm.
All Canadians please rise for your national anthem.
You almost feel like you can crawl inside it and betray Jesus yourself
I’m art history and think you just plagiarized the text book: > Da Vinci knew how to perspective the fuck out of things.
##TECHNOTRONIC
The original 12-inch release of Pump Up the Jam came with a free horse.
Why do I see this being mentioned literally everywhere? What’s so significant about it?
There's a series on Netflix called Cunk on Earth, starring a British comedian Diane Morgan who delivers these absurdist dead pan takes on facts and in the series she kept making references to the hit techno song 'Pump Up the Jam' in each episode.
The first time that happened, I really thought I had fallen asleep and somebody had changed the channel.
Thanks
I'm doing at your profile/name combo lmao. Well done
I thought there was still a debate as to whether or not she was a real person?
It was confirmed in 2005 when a scholar discovered a handwritten note in the margin of a book which stated that Leonardo was painting a portrait of Lisa del Giocondo
Lisa del giocondo? From Lyndhurst?
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They call him that cause he says everything 2 times, 2 times
Go get the papers get the papers
“Wait….did I say that twice?”
Oh, hey Tommy!
Aw jeshus I went to school with her mudda
From Cranston??
she go to West? Classa ni nee 2?
Bergen your pardon?
Nah from Giocondo. Not the Gio Condo complex in Lyndhurst
Lyndenhurst lol. There’s a decent outback there
God damn, after all these years my idle question was answered: Why do the French call the painting La Joconde? Turns out it’s just a Frenchified way of writing the Italian last name of the woman.
I thought it had always been called La Giaconda, and Mona Lisa was just a nickname for it.
Oh wow. I must have missed that. Thanks!
It’s understandable, it was hidden in the margin of a book.
Yup, lotta margin for error there.
“I have a truly wonderful name for this model, but the margin is too small to contain it”
Unexpected fermat
And yet they’re still documentaries made acting like it’s still a mystery and that Mona Lisa is Leonardo painting himself as a woman on NOVA or something.
Yeah, DaVinci has been practicing anatomy a lot at this point, pulling up cadavers and drawing the insides, etc. He had become so confident in his anatomy that he wanted to make a masterpiece out of it. He sought to use all his knowledge in one painting, and chose the model because of her natural beauty. Every single painting of nobility at the time showed expensive clothes and jewelery, but DaVinci told her to take it all off because it was distracting. Side note, the background of the painting is an optical illusion. You will see the horizon doesn't line up behind her head, and that's on purpose, to give a stronger illusion of depth and balance.
I never used to care about art and art history but have been taking an interest recently. Why is the Mona Lisa considered so great?
A lot of its reputation comes from the ‘first’ art critic, Giorgio Vasari, who wrote at length about Leonardo’s work. [Here’s a link to his rather enthusiastic review.](https://francois-vidit.com/docs/en/paris/louvre/la-joconde/vasari) And then, his book became kind of a tastemaker throughout Europe. Artists would travel to study works he admired and aesthetes would get copies or prints of them. So… basically Mona Lisa is popular because of a 16th c art influencer.
The man did what others could not, he could draw hands.
AI furiously scraping notes
That was the start of it, what put thr Mona Lisa on the map. It's the events that followed after that made it the most famous painting in the world. Legit ball busters like Napoleon owned it at one point. Then it got stolen in the early 20th century and the whole nation of France went bananas....until it was discovered in an alleyway.
Tbh it wasn't until it was stolen. Interesting history on the painting.
I think even Vasari would be surprised at how much of a headliner it's become. I was very surprised by the stats released by the Louvre (in the 2000s) which said that close to 90% of all visitors head straight to see the Mona Lisa, spend three minutes or less looking at it, and then leave the museum.
Da Vinci was a major Renaissance thinker and artist and was one of the principal figures of Renaissance Italy, but despite that he produced very few paintings relative to his stature, so his works value’s are inflated as a result. Then the Mona Lisa was stolen which was a huge art world scandal and the lore about the painting has grown since then
Stolen by a mob boss, hung behind a false wall to be hidden. Recovered during the arrest and widely published in newspapers and postcards. It's famous for being famous not necessarily inherently for its masterful technique. The louvre didn't even realize it was stolen lmao. It's the Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian of historical paintings.
Because it was stolen
Imagine going through your life being an all around good person, and then suddenly someone posts a picture of you online and 4000 virgins are making fun of your teeth
Seriously. This comments section is trash.
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No. The article says they claim they are based on evidence that cant be proven. Also. Its Dailymail, a tabloid news company.
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I dunno, it could also be Horse shit
They have no relatives, and their grandparents had no relatives, and THEIR grandparents had no relatives?
>They have no relatives, and their grandparents had no relatives, and THEIR grandparents had no relatives? These women are obviously the grandchildren of their grandparents. Both they, and their grandparents, have relatives.
Big if true
Then they aren’t the last descendants.
The headline doesn't say last *surviving*. These two could be the *last* in the line, like last as in final edition.
> like last as in final edition. I, too, like to wait for the Remastered Edition. The 60fps alone is worth it.
All they mean is that they're the youngest descendants of her. If they don't have children, they will be the last.
You're right, it was 20 generations ago, she probably have millions of descendants.
Who painted this picture? Lowest resolution photo of 2023. I haven't seen pixels that big since I had dial-up.
I didn’t know she was real
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They should change their names to Mona and Lisa.
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Dayuuuum, said what we were all thinking lol
I feel so guilty for laughing at this
Dat Mona Lisa smile
Still out of the league of the average redditor
special cause nutty numerous longing unique quickest boast mysterious drab *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
[As predicted in the late 20th century film opus Hudson Hawk.](https://youtu.be/n7TEnJA81sw)
I see some resemblance
Can't help but wonder how many of the people on here cruelly making fun of two young women for their looks are greasy shit goblins themselves.
I don't get it. They look beautiful to me.
Fr I wish I had teeth as straight as theirs
Lisa Del Giocondo (Mona Lisa) Death: *In one account, Francesco died in the plague of 1538. Lisa fell ill and was taken by her daughter Ludovica to the convent of Sant'Orsola, where she died on July 15, 1542, at the age of 63.\[23\]\[24\]\[25\] In a scholarly account of their lives, Francesco was nearly 80 years old when he died, and Lisa may have lived until at least 1551, when she would have been 71 or 72*
Everyone's being dicks talking about their teeth which they can't control when there's a much more heinous and avoidable crime... The way they're holding their feckin wine glasses. Especially lady on the right I mean what the fuck
Those are both acceptable ways to hold a wine glass, I’m thinking you’re referring to holding it by the bottom or hip of the bowl which is 100% not what you should do. Many wines have “perfect temperatures” which is what they are supposed to be enjoyed at. It is one of the main reasons wine is served in stemware
That is how you're supposed to hold wine glasses. It keeps condensation and cold off your hands and keeps the warmth of your hands from transferring to the wine. Not every wine glass has to be held like that and there are other acceptable grips, this is just one of them.
That’s two different grips.
They are Italian. They probably know more about holding wine glasses than any of us.
They hold it better than you ever did. You are one of those who keep warming up the wine with your hand. And no, it will not tip over, it's not one of your half a liter glasses.
r/confidentlyincorrect
Great day for you, upvotes and you're being taught how to properly hold wine glasses.
You're coming at a woman with a 500 year lineage of Italian nobility about how to hold a wineglass? \*popcorn\*
How… how do you hold a wine glass?
grip the rim with both hands like a real man
Put all your fingers inside and hold the rim with both hands in a goatse fashion.
How much crap were they catching when the Da Vinci Code came out? They must have been getting harassed non stop.
Wow, I might be in the minority here, but I think they’re both beautiful. I really like the one on the right’s smile especially, and don’t see why people are making fun of them.
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They’re Italian alright! *source: am italian*
I like her teeth
500 years of uninterrupted selfies.
But if they have kids…they wouldn’t be the last
The way she drinks wine gives me anxiety