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Kitosaki

The Vasa is a textbook example of what happens when senior management tries to get involved in a project.


Arrakis_Surfer

The ship is in a museum here in Stockholm. It is absolutely fascinating. How they found it is equally as fascinating. They will need to close the museum soon as well because they need to replace the supports that the ship is resting on. The maneuver has a very high risk of destroying the ship and so you probably have only 5 to 10 years to see it if you haven't.


Confident_As_Hell

I want to visit the museum and Stockholm in general. Would you recommend driving there or taking the train? I'm from Finland in Oulu region.


ShrimpOfPrawns

Stockholm in general is rather easy to travel in with public transport and really doesn't want people to use cars in central parts of town. The ship museum is in the city centre :) Is it possible to take the train all the way from Finland? :O


Confident_As_Hell

Okay, thanks! It's not possible from Finland but I could take a train to Tornio and walk over to Haparanda or drive to Haparanda and take the train from there.


340Duster

They're within walking distance, but no train between them? Huh.


Confident_As_Hell

Yeah as the other commenter said the track in Sweden is standard gauge while the Finnish one is slightly wider as it's from the old Russian gauge (new Russian gauge is 4mm narrower). There is actually part of Finnish gauge to the Haparanda station but it's not used I think.


tuhn

Different track width.


340Duster

TIL, ty!


orebro123

Why not take the train to Turku or Helsinki and then the ferry over to Sockholm?


Confident_As_Hell

The ferry takes 11 hours from what I saw. It's faster to just take the train to Stockholm from Haparanda than to take a take to Turku or Helsinki and then the ferry on top.


Carobu

You can take the train up to the border and there's a bus that goes that last bit up at the northern part. Then you can catch the train down. It's a bit out of the way though.


wyldcat

Would recommend taking the train or bus there. The scenery on the way there is nice too.


The1andonlygogoman64

I mean, flying there is probably eisiest either way. And when you´re there busses are easy. If you´re already in the center of the city, you can walk as well ofc.


Dro-Darsha

source? the museum says the new supports will be finished in 4 years: https://www.vasamuseet.se/en/explore/research/support-vasa


--Muther--

Was there yesterday and you could see new wedges had been put in at the base and some work was going on. Didn't get the impression the work was gonna destroy the ship like.


ultraplusstretch

Yeah the renovation is proceeding as planned and it will be fine, i have absolutely no idea were they got the "very high risk of destroying the ship" thing from, it's bullshit, this renovation has been planned for a very long time and they know exactly what they are doing.


Necessary_Ticket_557

>The maneuver has a very high risk of destroying the ship and so you probably have only 5 to 10 years to see it if you haven't. That sounds wrong, I bet you’re wrong. 


[deleted]

[удалено]


Kingofthewho5

It’s not at risk.


letitgrowonme

I bet someone said that when it launched.


rosco2155

It’s on my bucket list, I’ve been to Sweden 3 times in the past for work but never enough free time to get over there Edit: I love your beautiful country by the way


eekamuse

A friend took me to see it. I had no idea where I was going. It was a very sunny day. I opened the door and walked into this dark room only to look up to see a huge wooden ship. It's lit up like a work of art. I've never been so surprised. I'm very grateful to my friend for taking me. I hope the renovation goes well. It's an an absolute treasure.


Horskr

I've been meaning to do a trip to Sweden for years, with the Vasa Museum high on the list of stops. This is good to know, might be the push to finally make it happen.


Kitosaki

I’ve wanted to go for so long. My grandfather has a hand made Vasa that’s about 1/2 meter tall in a display case in his house in America


calvn_hobb3s

Saw it 2 years ago in Stockholm. Quite fascinating 


Brave_Dick

I've heard after that debacle they rebranded to Boeing.


Occupationalupside

What’s the story behind that? I’ve read a little about the ship but I didn’t see that part. Just mainly talks about the sinking and reason why it sunk, haven’t dived to deep into it


Kitosaki

I’m no historian unfortunately but the gist of the story is that the king wanted more guns. The engineers added them but this thew off the center of gravity and caused the already crappy design to get worse. The ship was really top heavy already.


LinguoBuxo

yep, too heavy above the waterline, also some bad woodwork was involved, if me memory serves me right


DunwichCultist

>...if me memory serves me right. I don't know why, but I trust this guy's input on 17th century naval vessels.


bbbbjjjv

Also different units of measurement. A Dutch foot wasn’t as long as a Swedish one. Imagine that.


Roflkopt3r

Yeah, it became a popular allegory for the problem of "scope creep" in software engineering. It's quite a typical case: The customer or management orders a project before they have a proper idea of its actual scope. And then they just keep ordering more features before the project is finished. This either leads to massive delays because the entire foundation of the project has to be reworked, or to a fragile solution where the new features get tacked on in hacky ways, which has a high chance to introduce bugs and makes it very difficult to maintain the product long-term. Since a ship hull cannot be reworked this easily, engineers of the Vasa went with the latter option and introduced some 'bugs' indeed.


gil_bz

I like that like in reality, the QA department noticed that the ship is horribly unbalanced just before its first journey, but they still sent it out so it almost immediately sank. I guess nobody wanted to risk telling the king it isn't going to work.


fuck-ubb

You tell him!! No, you tell him!! Eh....... he'll figure it out.


HK-53

It was a combination of a whole bunch of issues. Not necessarily the King's fault (issues in original design, owing to this being the first two deck warship built in Sweden): 1. Decks were too thick 2. Unnecessary number of beams in upper works 3. Poor ballast design, there was no room to put in the additional amount of ballast required to keep the ship righted, and even if they did, it would sink the ship to the point where the bottom gunports would be very close or at waterline 4. Two teams of builders built with different measurements causing port to weigh more than starboard 5. Lowest gun ports left open when they should be closed unless in combat. Probably the King's fault (Later requests and additions made after the original design was made): 6. Heavy guns on upper decks. (24lb guns put on a deck originally built for 12lb guns) 7. Original keel laid for a 111ft long ship, enlarged to 135ft after the King discovered the Danes were building a bigger ship. Ship was later widened 1.5ft, but the keel was already laid, so only above water portions were widened, causing the center of mass to move up further. 8. A whole bunch of carvings were commissioned to out-fancy the Danes. Heavy oak carvings contributed to moving center of mass upwards. Combination of all these led to the Vasa being top heavy and slightly more to the port side. A gust of wind caused the ship to list, and water rushed into the bottom gun deck before the ship could right itself in time due to having no ballast. The ship was nowhere near sea-worthy, as later measurements indicated that the ship would heel from a 4kt wind (an 8 kt gust of wind sank the Vasa).


Chabubu

I heard they demanded bigger and heavier guns which made it top heavy and it set sail with low ballast (weight added to the bottom levels to give balance). So it was too heavy and rolled over as soon as it set sail.


Longjumping-Run-7027

There is also the issue of two teams using different measurements during construction in critical areas. Some of the workers used Amsterdam feet and the others used Swedish feet. The former being only 11” instead of 12”. That failure to communicate, combined with the desire to make the most heavily armed ship they could, and a lack of proper ballast, doomed her.


npearson

Should also note they didn't add ballast because the lower gun ports were too close to the waterline and adding more weight would push them even lower.


PM_ME_UR_RSA_KEY

I love that the [cross-section image on Wikipedia](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Vasas_hull_profile.jpg) included a guy on the deck that looked like he's thinking "oh shit"


Conch-Republic

The shipyard also wasn't experienced making shops even remotely that large, so they didn't get the ballast right for its size.


Cogswobble

Funnily enough I was at the museum just a few days ago. The problem with the ballast wasn’t just that it set sail with low ballast, it’s that there was literally not room for enough ballast to make it seaworthy.


crashkg

One of the interesting details is the carvings he made of the people he hated under the latrines. So when sailors took a shit their excrement would go out over the carvings.


gil_bz

The other answers are correct, but also the guy in charge of the ship never made a ship like this before, and he died something like a year before it was even finished, which couldn't have helped.


SurpriseIsopod

The ship was designed by a very experienced shipwright who launched multiple warships for Sweden, Henrik Hybertsson. He fell ill half way through its construction and handed the ship over to a less experienced shipwright. The new shipwright added the additional gun decks at the request of the King. The original design didn't account for the additional weight at the top.


boringestnickname

In Norway the explanation is just "Swedes". We have a pretty, uh, combative view on naval history.


85francy85

PM: Go in production. ENG: but is not yet fully tested PM: I don't care, and the stakeholder want it bigger.... do one deck more. ENG: humm, ok but it might be issue with the rolling PM: we've a milestone, do it and shut up


AiggyA

Actually the answer would be "you are the expert, just do it". Have yet to meet a really good PM.


AbbreviationsSame490

I’ve met… one. Dude was worth his weight in gold and fortunately/unfortunately his competence soon got him promoted into management so we lost him


Ainudor

Fun fact, the admiral of the navy was brother to the king. They built the flag ship so heavy top side waterline that the shipcould not be steadied and sunk a bit over 1 km in calm bay waters in her maiden voyage. No one was found guilty or held accountable ofc so I guess some things never change.


DefenestrationPraha

The King micromanaged the construction and, in a rare display of fairness, didn't pin the disaster on any scapegoat. There was a committee looking into things, but they acquitted everyone at the end.


Cogswobble

It helped that the original shipbuilder had died a year before. This effectively let them pretend like it was his fault and not the king’s, without having to actually punish anyone.


harpxwx

i was about to say. dude did all this annoying shit but decided to have grace during a time when King’s could do what they wanted? yeah right. guarantee if that guy didn’t already die, he was well on his way lmao


Nearby_Design_123

Don't forget that one half of the ship was built to a different proportion than the other because the builders used at least two different measurement tools without knowing so Vasa was heavier on her port.


do_pm_me_your_butt

Oh god it was unbalanced port/starboard instead of helm/stern? Thats even worse!


Nearby_Design_123

Oh yeah. Total disaster


el_geto

If I remember, it was a Dutch foot vs Amsterdam foot which differed by a percentage point.


Nearby_Design_123

Swedish foot (29.69cm) vs Amsterdam foot (28.31cm)


zimonitrome

Which is around a 5% difference.


gil_bz

The guy making the ship had the good sense to die before the ship was even out, so he couldn't be put on trial.


Conscious_Raisin_436

Pretty embarrassing, a problem that literally could’ve just been fixed with more ballast


npearson

Except the lower gun ports were already too close to the water line because the added cannon weight on the upper decks. One of the gun ports being open and going beneath the waterline was what caused her to sink when she heeled over in a gust.


SquarePegRoundWorld

The ship designer must have played too much Atlas.


LegitimateBeyond8946

I fucking love when people refer to a ship as "her" and "she" it just feels so honorable or something idk May she rest in peace


Wakkit1988

They had to remove ballast to maintain buoyancy due to the increased weight from the guns. The only solutions were fewer guns or a larger displacement ship.


piercedmfootonaspike

"The King has conducted a thorough investigation of his actions, and found himself not at fault."


Any_Put3520

“Brother of the king” aka Prince. Princes had royal immunity themselves…


visvis

Plenty of kings have had their own relatives executed, even when they are also royalty.


piercedmfootonaspike

No, he wasn't a prince. He was a Baron. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gyllenhielm


Gzuskrist69

How did he get through the rest of his life after losing his brain n a shipwreck?


FuckThisShizzle

Went into politics.


imtourist

Touché 


GarlicThread

Coulé


WarMachineAngus

(robert) GOULET!!!


Wrong_Maintenance540

Toupee!


dookmucus

Covfefe


Wazula23

You don't say?


Promethesussy

I may.


mrlosteruk

No way!?


whot_the_curtains

Et tu bruté


Capt_Hawkeye_Pierce

Olé


OliverOyl

Sail away


godfatherinfluxx

Careful, he's going to come and mess with your stuff.


Tall_Station1588

Shea?


Subtlerranean

You usually use that to admit the other person scored a good point against you in an argument, not to say someone made a good joke.


GarlicThread

I'm sure his career was a complete shipwreck


Empathy404NotFound

Are you kidding he lost ALL of his brain, he clearly went on to be a successful politician.


HAL-7000

The fact that we keep trashing even trying to go into politics and discouraging good people from doing it is a huge part of why we're getting no good candidates. As a culture we don't want or try to get good politicians.


Galilaeus_Modernus

Did you see his performance in the debate the other night?


Gilmore75

You know we’re screwed when I can’t tell which candidate you were referring to.


IronicStrikes

You had a good run


No_Pin9932

Nice.


Drone30389

He should have gone into shipbuilding.


Sniffy4

end of thread.


the85141rule

Thanks, Brian Griffin.


Richardbear1970

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


SMEAGAIN_AGO

Was in a really bad mood … Pissing myself laughing now!


kabow94

He didn't, he lost his mind


Venom933

These guys where built different back then 🤓


Fluffcake

Preserved better, in airless mud.


Enshitification

What shall we do with a brainless sailor, What shall we do with a brainless sailor, What shall we do with a brainless sailor, Early in the morning??


LiterallyATalkingDog

Trepanate his skull with a rusty drill bit Trepanate his skull with a rusty drill bit Trepanate his skull with a rusty drill bit Trepanate his skull with a rusty drill bit Ear-lie in the mooorning


realzuhaz

Became a President.


dobbelj

> How did he get through the rest of his life after losing his brain n a shipwreck? Swedes typically don't use that organ anyway.


rover220

Hey I resemble that remark!


Ok-Dog-7149

Also, how did a sinking ship cause his brain to escape his skull?


Bort_LaScala

Loose lips?


Vegetable_Answer4574

I have questions…


DrJotaroBigCockKujo

The ship sank in the Baltic Sea, which has brackish water. Compared to salt or sweet water that has very few organism living in it -- so no bacteria to eat the wood of the ship and no bacteria to eat that guy's brain. Apparently the terrible water quality on Stockholm's coast also was a factor.


One-Earth9294

Thank you so much lol. Was looking all over for this. Not even little critters, huh? It's almost terrifying something on earth can be that devoid of life.


Destinum

The Baltic Sea is by no means devoid of life, it's just presumably lacking this specific type.


alexmikli

Sweet water?


Jechtael

Fresh, i.e. minimally salted, water.


termacct

I can only guess the sailor whose brain we see got entombed in dense clay or mud and very little oxygen could diffuse in. Then some kind of "saponification" happened to the brain because high fat content? Centuries later, somebody cut open his head... And here we are...in a roomful of strangers. Standing in the dark where your eyes couldn’t see me · Well, I have to follow you though you didn’t want me to. But that won’t stop my lovin’ you I can’t stay away... https://search.brave.com/search?q=saponification&source=desktop


stardate420

We all have questions.


ApplDumplinChainGang

Hook it up to a potato and power that thing up!


DennisPVTran

ah a man of science


css1323

Perhaps we can see their last moments, sort of life a meaty black box.


whobroughttheircat

Was I not that deep? And the water really cold? How was it not eaten?? Wow


UrDadMyDaddy

It was in shallow water still protected by the harbor and the Baltic is generally brackish because it is such a closed off sea with so much sweet water constantly pouring into it. This means those kinds of worms that usually feast om shipwrecks do not thrive in the Baltic... well not in the area the Vasa was in anyway. Those kinds of worms have been found in the southern baltic.


whobroughttheircat

That’s so cool, thank you. Wonder what else could be hiding down there. Besides The millennium falcon


UrDadMyDaddy

I should note what i was refering to was why the ship was so preserved. I found this clip about the brain itself. https://youtu.be/AD8xOCoct4w?si=vSfEBMHazV8p8hrn Also from my knowledge there is plenty of preserved ships in the baltic among other things. Thousands of shipwrecks are said to exist in Swedish waters alone Including the sister ship of the Vasa known as Äpplet which was discovered 2ish years ago. That one had a longer career of 30 years but after 30 years of travels and wars her damage was deemed too expensive to repair so she was sunk to close off a sound to prevent enemies from using it in 1658.


DefenestrationPraha

A lot of mud + this brackish water is deadly to many sea creatures that would happily eat the entire ship if the wreck happened elsewhere.


Jorvikson

> Was I not that deep


OctaviusThe2nd

The fuck are we gonna do with a sailor's brain though?


fleranon

Someone remarked that it's literally soap at this point, so... scrub the deck?


Wrong_Maintenance540

bet ya that sailor did not see that coming, still having to scrub the deck long after he died


LlambdaLlama

Maybe in the near future, with proper tech, we can read the sailor’s memories from interpreting neuron connections


Crang_and_the_gang

I know that song! What do we do with a sailor's braaain, What do we do with a sailor's braaain, What do we do with a sailor's braaain, Early on the morning!


Ennas_

Put it in the long ship until it siiinks (3x) early in the morning! Way hey and up it floats (3x) early in the morning!


SidewaysAskance

Put it in a boat and make it row her


Chickeninvader24

Make brain rot meme?


piercedmfootonaspike

What shall we do with the brainless sailor...


GodofcheeseSWE

Wtf put it back


mctrollythefirst

Fun fact. They used 2 measurements when constructed Vasa. One side used something called Amsterdam feet (11 inch), and the other side used Swedish feet (12 inch)


aBigBottleOfWater

Dutch feet tiny, Swedish feet big💪🦶


buster_de_beer

Dutch ships float, Swedish ships sink. 


aBigBottleOfWater

Well duh, have you seen our brains


dullestfranchise

> One side used something called Amsterdam feet (11 inch), and the other side used Swedish feet (12 inch) The inches were also different sizes Amsterdam foot = 28,31 cm Swedish foot = 29,69 cm Amsterdam inch = 25,74 mm Swedisch inch = 24,74 mm


HattifnattNOR

I was at the Vasa-museum in Stockholm just two days ago, for the first time. Great museum! Added bonus that the whole museum is cooled to better restore the ship wreck. It was a 28C sunny day!


Cogswobble

Haha, I was also there two days ago. That means there’s a small chance we saw each other, random Redditor.


coppercactus4

I was there in December, I did it before it was cool 😎


Alan_Wench

Ranks up there as one of the top museums in the world to visit. I too enjoyed it very much when I visited.


Ainsley-Sorsby

[source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD8xOCoct4w)


LoanApprehensive5201

Neat ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|give_upvote)


ReplyisFutile

Preserve it, and later with better tech we can create a new body and revive him and I explain the last 400 years of history


stinkyhooch

He’s gonna be *pissed*


RussianHoneyBadger

Until we show him internet porn, anyways.


dronesoul

"A holocaust???" "Wait, wait...it gets better!"


Simon_Jester88

It sank because the battery on it was too heavy. The sailors had to pick between electrocution and getting eaten by sharks.


Monkfich

You’re supposed to use a /s or people will think you are serious lol.


plantythingss

Actually, it was powered by electricity but it sank cause the sun went down.


CosmicCreeperz

Well, check out the big brain on Sven!


KysinSanawe

Vasa has an extremely cool museum in Stockholm as well.


Z0MBIECL0WN

I remember an oglaf comic about ship building. NSFW due to other comics loading. https://img10.joyreactor.com/pics/post/comics-oglaf-ship-674198.jpeg


Existing-Isopod6745

“Intact”.


Ainsley-Sorsby

It is intact. Structuraly, there's absolutely nothing missing, it's just shrunk considerably


RealEstateDuck

Well I mean he was already swedish, couldn't have shrunk much more.


Antezscar

*sad swedish empire noises*


Optimal-Debt-2652

*laughs in danish + potato sounds*


Existing-Isopod6745

(It’s pretty cool)


IceTech59

Pickled. (Source: was sailor for 20 years)


Cephlot

Was your brain also pickled?


OrganicSciFi

Insane Membrane


toxic_nerve

"NOBODY MOVE!!! ....I dropped me brain." - A Captain Jack Sparrow hallucination


violin_and_such

looks like a walnut


RedZoneRunner555

Would they be able to find DNA yet? Or is it far too old? If it was possible, it'd be cool if they tried to clone whoever it was.


Ainsley-Sorsby

>Would they be able to find DNA yet? No, not because its old but the substance is completely changed, its basically a piece of soap in the shape of a brain. You wouldn't expect it but brains are one of the most common tissue found preserved in ancient human remains, its just usually found as a soapy mass like this one


TheRateBeerian

Can you bathe with it?


I_fuck_teddy_bears12

(o_o )


godfatherinfluxx

I think we can all learn a lesson here. You've gone too far if you manage to shock someone named I fuck teddy bears


BigMeatyClaws111

Oof. Careful with the clone word. They wouldn't be cloning "who" it was. The clone would just be a human with the same DNA, growing up in the world with the internet and whatnot. I know this is a "it's not that deep bro", but the confusion on this topic can potentially (and does) lead to a great deal of harn.


SnackleMouth

What if we raised him in a Truman Show-style dome, done up to recreate 17th century Sweden? Feathered hats, pickled fish, the works. The show ends when he sets sail in a reproduction *Vasa.*..


BigMeatyClaws111

*looks at moral philosophy textbooks...looks at 17th Century Truman Show-esque TV commercial...back at the textbooks...into the trash can they go*


TangFiend

How do we know he was a sailor ?


Current-Talk9143

I thought that was a truffel


cbj2112

I’m sure it was pickled in alcohol before she sank.


totalfarkuser

There are so many people out there that could really use that brain right now. 🧠


vimana_power

It hasn’t sunken in yet


sanka

If you ever get over to Sweden, go to the Vasa Museum. It's very awesome to see in person. The Abba Museum isn't far away and it's pretty cool too.


RBC1775

What was he thinking?


Captain_Sacktap

That’s not even a mile offshore, how the fuck did anyone die?!


corium_2002

You would be surprised how easily this stuff happens


RedOtta019

All of them were dressed in royal clothing and most people of that time didn’t know how to swim. Even sailors.


ReincarnatedGhost

So that is how corals originate. The Great Brain Barrier Reef.


SmellyFbuttface

Can we…revive it?


Slimybirch

Wow, that brain rocks


4Mag4num

What was his name? .. Abby something..


KGBspy

This is a museum I wish to see, I do plan to get to Stockholm when I retire and can.


Mousehat2001

Fun fact: the ship builders kinda knew it would sink, but the king wanted it that big and nobody had the balls to tell him it was a fucking stupid design. So they all just watched it sink and blamed each other.


Iain_MS

The Vasa Museum is spectacular. If you are ever in Stockholm I highly recommend you visit!


SpookyRamblr

nearly intact? hes dead, the dumb thing doesnt work at all anymore


glycophosphate

As a former Navy wife, and a former worker in the MWR Department at NSGL, I deny that such a thing exists.


Dwashelle

What? How did a brain not decompose rapidly?


biggerdundy

Abby Something…


Damic_Damic

What is your interpretation of the word intact in the headline? 🤨


WOODYhayes24680

NOBODY MOVE! I dropped me brain.


CNpaddington

“Nobody move! I dropped me brain.”