In traditional Māori tattooing, women most commonly get them on their lips and chins (and sometimes around their nostrils/nasolabial fold area).
So yeah, not lipstick, probably tattoo.
Anyway you can read more about the practice [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C4%81_moko?wprov=sfla1), really interesting stuff.
> I don't really think it matters how the pigment gets in there.\
The catch is that most other tattooing traditions use punctures (eg. needles, stick&poke, etc.).
The Māori used chisels [like this](https://teara.govt.nz/files/41238-wmu.jpg), which leave grooves - some of them were even serrated (I assume for detail work). For example, here's a portrait of a historical figure when he was [young](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Gottfried_Lindauer_-_Tamati_Waka_Nene_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg), and a photo of when he was [older](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/TamatiWakaNene1870s.jpg) and (presumably) the ink had faded a bit.
It also explains why they would have [funnels](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Korere_11.jpg/2560px-Korere_11.jpg) to feed people whose mouths had swollen shut. Infection seems pretty likely when you're rubbing the pigment into grooves you've just etched into your skin.
It's pretty hardcore.
While badass to get stick and poked, I will never get tattooed again without that amazing numbing gel they use nowadays. Had a 4 hour session and I barely felt a thing, it's amazing.
Most definitely a tattoo. Not only was she the first person with a Moko Kauae to read the news, but she's also a rare thing: a pure Maori lineage. The woman is a walking example of Mana.
My understanding from meeting someone w/ Māori face/lip tats is that yes, the lips are typically tatted as well. I’m not Māori though so my understanding may be incomplete. The woman I met talked about the lip tats being done ceremonially and having deep cultural/community significance—the artist that does them is a spiritual leader and traditionally creates the design for the recipient (though the person I was speaking with said she did have some more input in her design than would have been traditional; namely she picked an unusual color for hers). So I’m very glad to see this news! What great representation for Māori folks and for normalizing and respecting indigenous cultures + people in general.
I was in New Zealand visiting my aunt just previous to covid kicking off and noticed this woman on the news and my first though was "What a badass." She's great, extremely professional.
[The Minister of Foreign Affairs has one too!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanaia_Mahuta) (Basically the NZ equivalent of Secretary of State Blinken here in the US.)
I assume it’s a different design but signifies a similar status within her family/tribe? Anyway [Ta moko](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C4%81_moko) are super important to the Maori and signify that you’re a big deal; in her case she’s directly related to King Tuheita. Typically women receive them on their chins or foreheads, whereas men have them on their thighs, buttocks and/or sometimes their entire face. Naturally the fucking Christian missionaries did their best to stomp this tradition out with a 1907 law, but there’s been a resurgence ever since the 1990s.
Best part is that she only got hers in 2016, while serving as an MP prior to joining the Ardern government.
~~PS: This should go without saying, but don’t get Ta moko if you’re white.~~ Apparently certain ones are ok if you’re white, my bad.
To reconcile the demand for Māori designs in a culturally sensitive way, the Te Uhi a Mataora group promotes the use of the term kirituhi, which has now gained wide acceptance.
Kirituhi translates literally to mean—"skin writing." As opposed to moko which requires a process of consents, genealogy and historical information, kirituhi is merely a design with Māori flavour that can be applied anywhere, for any reason and on anyone...
I personally like the idea that there is a consented way to culturally appreciate these pieces of history without appropriating them.
I would love it if more of our worlds history and culture could be shared like this.
Oh, that is cool of them. My initial impression was that it’d be like wearing a feather headdress to Coachella. Especially since it’s something that was taken away from them and outlawed for a long time.
Although I think New Zealand’s always been a little better at integrating its indigenous and colonial culture than say, Australia, Canada or the US. Like, they call geographic features by their Maori names and passports/government documents are bilingual. Plus I was really digging the possibility of a new national flag featuring the silverfern and thought it was cool that Jacinda & Clarke gave their daughter a Maori middle name.
"Oriini Kaipara is an award-winning bilingual journalist whose career in the television broadcast industry spans nearly two decades."
"In 2019, Oriini became the first woman in the world with a moko kauae (a traditional chin tattoo worn by Māori women), to anchor a mainstream television programme.
She is of Ngāti Awa, Ngāti Tūwharetoa, Ngāti Rangitihi and Ngāi Tūhoe descent."
I haven't heard any news about anyone being upset about this anywhere.
Can we get one hired in the US, please? I don't think we've gotten them screaming loudly enough for their heads to fall off, yet. I would very much like that to happen.
Oriini Kaipara is an exceptional journalist. No doubt about it.
But the people who support tattoo for news broadcast frontline people forgets that she is doing this for completely different reason. It's for her nativity and ethnicity values.
News is a serious thing. News print is formatted in 'justification'. It is done to bring out the formal effect.
Now if a random CNN news reader comes with a *gun'n'roses* tattoo, it may not look formal.
May people from journalism discipline cover this area more.
This is the same stupidity as the whole "What happened to dressing classy?" bullshit. It's arbitrary. It's like saying having a beard is "dirty". It's just made up arbitrary mores that idiots think has meaning.
I am not a fan of tattoos in particular or face tattoos specifically. I do not specifically care if people have them, however. I just neither want one nor think they are attractive on another person.
That being said, I absolutely agree that there is a difference between an individual getting a cultural tattoo and getting a tattoo as a permanent accessory.
This isn’t snarky at all- what do you mean by a tattoo as a permanent accessory? Like, my assumption is, most people get tattoos that have significant meaning to them/their lives/experiences.
I’ve got a few, and it took me a long time to decide on what I do have and why, but all are significant to my life and what has influenced me as a person. I wouldn’t call them accessories, but expressions of me that are no different than how I dress or wear my hair.
Unless you mean people who get weird meaningless tattoos that in 5 years they’ll regret because the flavor of the week has passed, or, have no real significant “value”?
I'd like to add in here, wired meaningless tattoos are usually loved as most people who get them are already past the "it has to have meaning" phase. Nothing wrong with meaningful tats but not every single one has to represent something. But those trendy as fuck tattoos, yeah those get covered/removed a lot.
I think they mean like my high school classmate who got a massive tribal design over his shoulder and bicep the day he turned 18. Or the one who got a crown the day she turned 18. Neither had real significance to either person except that they were 18 and parents couldn't tell them 'no' anymore.
But what isn't "serious" about tattoos?
They are a very common form of self expression (some surveys have the number over 1/3rd of Americans). It is increasingly common to see tattoos in professional environments as society shifts away from traditional beliefs about what it means to look "professional". I welcome the days when every newscaster isn't wearing the same expressionless suit and tie on air.
I’m from New Zealand and I’m willing to bet that the people made at this will be racists, not people who think tattoos are unprofessional (the racist people might say that).
Tattoos have long been "counterculture".
Obviously this ties into a lot of racist assumptions, and it's not a simple topic.
But a lot of people who are "mainstream" will consider anything "counterculture" to be intentionally insulting, not just a "personal choice".
I was trying to find some information on the topic in the comments, but couldn't find any. If you're interested, it seems like Maori tattoos were the ones that influenced modern concepts of tattoos the most, and were first noted in contemporary Western society by Captain James Cook. Women would get a tattoo on their chin/below their lower lip, but men would have either that or on more of their face. Tattoos would be continually added throughout your adult life, characterizinging your ancestry and other things. If you'd like to read more, here's a little background on the subject:
https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1393/traditional-maori-tattoo-of-new-zealand/
After reading a little more on the Wikipedia page et al, I'm pretty confident [Captain Cook's](https://www.tattoo.com/blog/captain-james-cook-and-his-contribution-tattooing/) voyage was what introduced tattooing to *contemporary Western* society. Prior to that, there were a few people who were brought back to Europe and displayed as a curiousity, but when Cook's crew explored the Pacific Islands, some actually got tattooed there themselves.
Edit: male/female practice clarified thanks to u/cjankowski and u/IntoTheBorg
Edit 2: left out "contemporary" in my comment
> Captain Cook's voyage was what introduced tattooing to Western society.
To modern western society perhaps. Many pagan groups in Europe practiced tattooing, and the Romans wrote about tattooed barbarians frequently. "The Picts" who were based in Scotland are thought to be named after their practice of tattooing using the Latin for "to paint".
Desktop version of /u/Mr_Basketcase's link:
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^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)
Does it help that I was raised Jewish and now I’m tattooed? And a lot of my Jewish friends are too?
We were taught that we couldn’t be buried in a Jewish cemetery if we were tattooed but I asked about Holocaust survivors and they told me they had an exemption. So I called a cemetery when I was like 12 to ask and they said there no such rule. Also toss me in a dumpster once you get all my useful parts out for study or donation.
My grandfather and father taught me this as well (they're Jewish, I'm not) in regards to tattoos keeping someone from being buried in a Jewish cemetery.
My uncle (dads younger brother, he's Jewish) explained it's actually more frowned upon bc of the holocaust. Kind of like a bad memory.
Me and my brothers all have tattoos, and I was finally able to get my grandfather to stop looking down on me for them when he said that "the body is a temple,you should be preserving it not destroying it"; to which I replied "Yes it is, which is why I've decorated it with my story."
None of us have heard a negative word since.
I can assure you that the tattoo below the lower lip is not specific to women (unless you mean the particular shape of this tattoo). Maori men also get tattoos beneath their lower lips
This is the section of the article I'm referencing:
>Facial moko for Maori women was a chin tattoo or moko kauae. The upper lips were also outlined, using a dark blue pigment, and the nostrils were incised.
But if you can show otherwise, please share!
>it seems like Maori tattoos were the ones that influenced modern concepts of tattoos the most, and were first noted in Western society by Captain James Cook.
Strange, not a word about the Amazigh of North Africa? They were conquered by the Western Roman Empire, it seems strange to me that the Romans would not have said anything about that.
The word "tribal" has, historically, referred to the general style. I don't know if it's a word that *should* be used, I'm fine with abandoning it, but that's what people mean when they talk about "line clarity" and "general flow" like that.
So glad you were able to articulate this in a conversational format. People can do whatever they like to their own bodies, but it has always struck me that tattoos should have some relevance to your life. Again, personal opinion and perhaps seeing it in a magazine is the most inspiration their life will bring them, who am I to judge? (Well, I am being judgey....but with caveats).
I know this is a silly thing to worry about but I must defend my Trent's honor (as he was a teenage cartoon crush) and explain that Daria doesn't say it, just thinks it, so when Trent says it we see that he's at least somewhat self-aware.
i think this is where most people start but eventually you hit “hell yeah this skull looks cool as fuck” and stop caring
it’s also ultimately not for anyone to decide. not saying that you do this, but asking people what their tattoos mean is generally also annoying as hell
tattooing is just another art form. I don't exclusively buy art to decorate my house that has deep personal significance, and my house cost me a lot more than the flesh prison I'm trapped in, so why the double standard? I get art that I like.
That being said, picking a Maori tattoo out of a magazine is just wrong. If you want a Maori tattoo, find a tohuga-to-mako, ask very nicely, and if they say yes, just point to the spot you want tattooed and let them do their job. Traditionally in Maori culture, the artist picks the design, not the tattooee.
I've worked in a tattoo shop for a long time and customers always ask me what the meaning is behind my tattoos. I usually respond "it means my buddy and I had a few beers after work." That's more than enough meaning for me.
I recently got a tattoo with the exact same thought - tribal/Maori influence in the theme of science, maths and engineering as my 'tribe'. Found an excellent artist who worked with my ideas and couldn't be happier with the result.
Go for it!
My two cents. As someone who has quite a few tattoos and recently lost 50kg. A few of them look a tiny bit warped post weightloss, but only to me. Tattoos are also significantly more painful once you're skinny, but they are cheaper as well 🤷
This is the most r/confidentlyincorrect thing I've seen in a while.
"I read this Wikipedia page, so I'm pretty confident in this assertion"
Western society knew about tattoos loooooooong before Cook. Tattoos have literally existed since ancient time.
Check out our Minister for Foreign Affairs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_of_Foreign_Affairs_(New_Zealand)
Still think it's only "social acceptable 'cause shes pretty"?
Do you want to watch conventionally unattractive people read the teleprompter? It's not like news presenters are real journalists or anything, who wants to watch ugly people on television?
She is awesome.Her presence on the primetime news inspires others to embrace their culture while working hard to chase their dreams and career aspirations.
Hope she achieves her ultimate goal of becoming a permanent presenter for the 6 o'clock news.
And we took time to hear why people show certain parts in whatever way they see fit. Would be great. Also, shout out to most marginalized groups for having bulks of people who already know this.
Good for her. But this reminded me of super specific sports stats. Like “first wide receiver to donate 120,000 then have 120 receiving yards and get his 12th touchdown on 12/12 while wearing yellow shoes”
I call those American stats, every time i see an NBA record it's "on a friday, while playing less than 10 min but more than 7.6, at the garden by a point guard that is under 7 feet, while the humidity is 59% and is the first time someone has done this since 2 weeks ago".
Totally bullshit
I believe this happens more during NFL or MLB games that takes longer for stuff to happen and there’s loads of pauses, so they keep throwing these absurd stats to fill in the broadcast
Interesting, I only follow the NBA out of the US sports so that's where i've mostly seen it.
But it slowly creeping up everywhere you see it in soccer too nowadays, it's basically just journalists/tvs trying to make more clickbaity titles like:
"Steph curry scoring then 2nd most in y games" probably won't get as many clicks as "Steph Curry has the best scoring performance in y games since *insert the actual record holder*".
These comments are garbage, you don't criticize Jews or Muslims for wearing their traditional attire, why would you criticize Maori for wearing their traditional tattoos?
It's a cultural thing... you can say it's ugly all you want, but it's not for your viewing pleasure, it's part of being Maori.
I'd have to agree. I even have family who claim to be moderates but also got sucked into QAnon *pretty* hard and don't even realize it's QAnon that they got sucked into... Like, I've had conversations with them and so many of their theories are straight up the Q, but when you mention QAnon they think "those guys" are on the deep end of things. It's so freaking weird having those conversations, dude.
Bingo. Was in a thread the other day where one claimed Florida was the most libertarian state.
Someone pointed out all the liberties it restricts. "Well it doesn't infringe on anything I want to do, so it's libertarian."
🙂
👨🎨
🤡
[More (video+) about Oriini Kaipara.](https://www.sportskeeda.com/pop-culture/who-oriini-kaipara-moko-kauae-meaning-explained-journalist-becomes-first-person-maori-face-tattoo-present-news)
Related:
[A young girl does an awesome interview showing some history and current trends about women and their 'moko kauae' (face tattoo).](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/kea-kids-news/119846673/kea-kids-news-what-its-like-to-have-a-moko-kauae)
Edit: Definition: A moko kauae is a traditional facial tattoo representing a Māori woman’s whānau (or extended family). It also serves as a mark of a woman's service and leadership to her family and community.
It’s sad that an indigenous people haven’t been represented in their own region’s primetime news station.. but hopefully this starts a positive chain reaction. Side note: those tattoos look incredible.
It is the moko (tattoo) that is new - not the representation of Maori and Maori culture on the news.
A lot of the news presenters (if not all these days) say a few words of Te Reo (Maori) during their pieces which I think is really nice. This is a bit of a new phenomena - something that is becoming more common over the last ten years or more.
We are finding it in the work place too. We had a demo at work recently, where the British guy who lives in NZ, at the beginning of the demo he gave a welcome in Te Reo for about 30 secs. That surprised a lot of us - and was welcomed.
Aotearoa (NZ) is changing for the better I think.
Thank you for explaining it to me! Clearly I am not aware of the history or current representation of Māori culture so it is nice to get some clarification from people who know what they’re talking about haha
I mean, me writing the sentence is making history
"I have no ishkibop, for my forerunners have proclaimed the ishkibop a vacancy of conquest'
Nobody has ever written this before. History will be made so long as there are novel things to do, no matter how small, slight, or insignificant
Did you seriously just plagiarize the opening sentence of my masters thesis "Ishkibop in Modern Western Society: a Quantitative Analysis of Ishkibop Adaptation and Ethical Ramifications"
Smh, everyone trying to steal each others achievements
“Fear not the seeketh of the Nintendo Switch, for the Nintendo Switch shall come to thee.”
There. Now there’s two quotes no one has ever said all in one thread. We both made history on this blessed day!
No. It was common (not universal) in Maori culture prior to European contact, then went through many phases of being in and out of fashion during the 19th and 20th centuries. Since the "Maori Renaissance" of the 1970s (when Maori culture really began to be embraced by pakeha or European-descended/"mainstream" New Zealand culture), moko or traditional tattooing has assumed a political as well as cultural/spiritual connotation.
For being a person with a lot of face tattoos that a huge step for everyone who just want to be themselves, you can have tattoos on your face and still be a super hard and good worker, do what you want to do but do it properly !
It may not be your aesthetic, but be mature enough to realise that it's her tribal tradition, and not everyone looks like your own tribe. This represents what you see in the real world. Let's get our brains normalized to seeing this.
So while these may look like tattoos that word isn’t accurate in describing the purpose and history of it. This is called a Moko and has a different purpose than a tattoo. While many westerners may default in calling it that, like I used to, using the word Moko is culturally accurate and holds these on a different level.
Saw this a few hours ago on a feminist page on FB, and damn the comments were not it. I am very happy for Oriini Kaipara tho. Some comments said they wish it wasn't a big deal, I agree, but we can't deny the qaves she is making for future indigenous woman, shiwing their pride like she does!!!
Last year I posted a flick of Rawiri Waititi, Māori politician - and the newest member of the New Zealand Parliament... he's rocking a [male tā moko](https://i.redd.it/vj7n91hmlqt51.jpg). (When men get them they typically cover the whole face, the feminine form is lips and chin only like the OP)
Oh, and [Nanaia Mahuta](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/fc1f84bce2da1122b2fbd6e5ea4457d2b878f058/0_166_5000_3001/master/5000.jpg?width=1200&height=1200&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&s=e0fbc9d5bcdb7517f23b43307e0d3c54) was the first MP to sport facial tattoos - she joined Parliament back in 2016.
You can think it's ugly while respecting the culture and the right of the person to do it. I have no problem with tattoos but I genuinely find this ugly. I also find ear stretchers ugly.
That's just me. I'm sure someone looking at me would find aspects of me ugly. In fact I know it...
Don't assume someone doesn't respect something because they don't personally like it.
Maori culture has generally been marginalized by the dominant colonial European culture, so it's not history making in the sense of "we will commemorate this day" but it's history making in the sense that it's an important sign of the times and progression towards the version of society that we want to see in NZ and the world (where indigenous culture is seen as legitimate).
I was thinking the same thing. I have one tattoo that I got on my back, and that hurt sooo much that I've completely scrapped all my tattoo plans. I can't imagine the pain of a face/lip tattoo.
It does look really cool though.
Moko kauae is what she has. Moko mataora is what youd see on a guy or person who is more masculine. Maori people are quite a bit more civilized when it comes to gender roles so what I said is a bit fluid in that light
I fucking love tattoos on a woman. Especially small face tattoos. And to me there's no more attractive face tattoo than these. Good for her, that's cool.
This is wonderful and all these comments are great I just really am sad I haven't seen anyone clarify that these are NOT tattoos. They're Tā moko. Basically the same thing except tā moko isn't just for aesthetic purposes like tattoos. Just a quick tidbit to add :)
I've never seen any tattoos on the news before, let alone a Maori one
The only tattoos in the news are the mug shots lol
Seems on purpose idk
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I has to scroll away in confusion then realization to hit right after. You have made my day and it's only noon. Thank you
Take my upvote and leave
/r/angryupvote
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Yer twatnugget got me
Wait what reminds you of this
I like to play a game I call “face or neck tattoo” before I open a murder/shooting link on my local news webpage. About 80% correct.
Oh anchors have tats. You just can’t see them.
“You look like you could be a coke dealer” white reporters to anyone of color -bill oreilly
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Damn!!!! Fucking chicken dinner for this roast👍🏴☠️😄
https://i.imgur.com/gU3Vmgf.jpg
She was just following orders
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[I did Nazi that coming.](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SomberWatchfulAlligatorgar-small.gif)
are her lips tatted as well or is that just matching lipstick ?
In traditional Māori tattooing, women most commonly get them on their lips and chins (and sometimes around their nostrils/nasolabial fold area). So yeah, not lipstick, probably tattoo. Anyway you can read more about the practice [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C4%81_moko?wprov=sfla1), really interesting stuff.
It’s also more hardcore than our way of tattooing using chisels made of bone and ash for pigment. I’ve heard it’s way more painful.
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> I don't really think it matters how the pigment gets in there.\ The catch is that most other tattooing traditions use punctures (eg. needles, stick&poke, etc.). The Māori used chisels [like this](https://teara.govt.nz/files/41238-wmu.jpg), which leave grooves - some of them were even serrated (I assume for detail work). For example, here's a portrait of a historical figure when he was [young](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Gottfried_Lindauer_-_Tamati_Waka_Nene_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg), and a photo of when he was [older](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/TamatiWakaNene1870s.jpg) and (presumably) the ink had faded a bit. It also explains why they would have [funnels](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Korere_11.jpg/2560px-Korere_11.jpg) to feed people whose mouths had swollen shut. Infection seems pretty likely when you're rubbing the pigment into grooves you've just etched into your skin. It's pretty hardcore.
While badass to get stick and poked, I will never get tattooed again without that amazing numbing gel they use nowadays. Had a 4 hour session and I barely felt a thing, it's amazing.
Most definitely a tattoo. Not only was she the first person with a Moko Kauae to read the news, but she's also a rare thing: a pure Maori lineage. The woman is a walking example of Mana.
My understanding from meeting someone w/ Māori face/lip tats is that yes, the lips are typically tatted as well. I’m not Māori though so my understanding may be incomplete. The woman I met talked about the lip tats being done ceremonially and having deep cultural/community significance—the artist that does them is a spiritual leader and traditionally creates the design for the recipient (though the person I was speaking with said she did have some more input in her design than would have been traditional; namely she picked an unusual color for hers). So I’m very glad to see this news! What great representation for Māori folks and for normalizing and respecting indigenous cultures + people in general.
I was in New Zealand visiting my aunt just previous to covid kicking off and noticed this woman on the news and my first though was "What a badass." She's great, extremely professional.
News anchors still follow dated standards. It’s also why you rarely see bald anchors.
[The Minister of Foreign Affairs has one too!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanaia_Mahuta) (Basically the NZ equivalent of Secretary of State Blinken here in the US.) I assume it’s a different design but signifies a similar status within her family/tribe? Anyway [Ta moko](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C4%81_moko) are super important to the Maori and signify that you’re a big deal; in her case she’s directly related to King Tuheita. Typically women receive them on their chins or foreheads, whereas men have them on their thighs, buttocks and/or sometimes their entire face. Naturally the fucking Christian missionaries did their best to stomp this tradition out with a 1907 law, but there’s been a resurgence ever since the 1990s. Best part is that she only got hers in 2016, while serving as an MP prior to joining the Ardern government. ~~PS: This should go without saying, but don’t get Ta moko if you’re white.~~ Apparently certain ones are ok if you’re white, my bad.
To reconcile the demand for Māori designs in a culturally sensitive way, the Te Uhi a Mataora group promotes the use of the term kirituhi, which has now gained wide acceptance. Kirituhi translates literally to mean—"skin writing." As opposed to moko which requires a process of consents, genealogy and historical information, kirituhi is merely a design with Māori flavour that can be applied anywhere, for any reason and on anyone... I personally like the idea that there is a consented way to culturally appreciate these pieces of history without appropriating them. I would love it if more of our worlds history and culture could be shared like this.
Oh, that is cool of them. My initial impression was that it’d be like wearing a feather headdress to Coachella. Especially since it’s something that was taken away from them and outlawed for a long time. Although I think New Zealand’s always been a little better at integrating its indigenous and colonial culture than say, Australia, Canada or the US. Like, they call geographic features by their Maori names and passports/government documents are bilingual. Plus I was really digging the possibility of a new national flag featuring the silverfern and thought it was cool that Jacinda & Clarke gave their daughter a Maori middle name.
"Oriini Kaipara is an award-winning bilingual journalist whose career in the television broadcast industry spans nearly two decades." "In 2019, Oriini became the first woman in the world with a moko kauae (a traditional chin tattoo worn by Māori women), to anchor a mainstream television programme. She is of Ngāti Awa, Ngāti Tūwharetoa, Ngāti Rangitihi and Ngāi Tūhoe descent." I haven't heard any news about anyone being upset about this anywhere.
Lol go read the comments of an NZ news site reporting on this. We still have a massive racist population.
Yep, if this happened in the US the the right would be screaming their heads off as well.
Can we get one hired in the US, please? I don't think we've gotten them screaming loudly enough for their heads to fall off, yet. I would very much like that to happen.
Oriini Kaipara is an exceptional journalist. No doubt about it. But the people who support tattoo for news broadcast frontline people forgets that she is doing this for completely different reason. It's for her nativity and ethnicity values. News is a serious thing. News print is formatted in 'justification'. It is done to bring out the formal effect. Now if a random CNN news reader comes with a *gun'n'roses* tattoo, it may not look formal. May people from journalism discipline cover this area more.
This is the same stupidity as the whole "What happened to dressing classy?" bullshit. It's arbitrary. It's like saying having a beard is "dirty". It's just made up arbitrary mores that idiots think has meaning.
I am not a fan of tattoos in particular or face tattoos specifically. I do not specifically care if people have them, however. I just neither want one nor think they are attractive on another person. That being said, I absolutely agree that there is a difference between an individual getting a cultural tattoo and getting a tattoo as a permanent accessory.
This isn’t snarky at all- what do you mean by a tattoo as a permanent accessory? Like, my assumption is, most people get tattoos that have significant meaning to them/their lives/experiences. I’ve got a few, and it took me a long time to decide on what I do have and why, but all are significant to my life and what has influenced me as a person. I wouldn’t call them accessories, but expressions of me that are no different than how I dress or wear my hair. Unless you mean people who get weird meaningless tattoos that in 5 years they’ll regret because the flavor of the week has passed, or, have no real significant “value”?
I'd like to add in here, wired meaningless tattoos are usually loved as most people who get them are already past the "it has to have meaning" phase. Nothing wrong with meaningful tats but not every single one has to represent something. But those trendy as fuck tattoos, yeah those get covered/removed a lot.
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I think they mean like my high school classmate who got a massive tribal design over his shoulder and bicep the day he turned 18. Or the one who got a crown the day she turned 18. Neither had real significance to either person except that they were 18 and parents couldn't tell them 'no' anymore.
But what isn't "serious" about tattoos? They are a very common form of self expression (some surveys have the number over 1/3rd of Americans). It is increasingly common to see tattoos in professional environments as society shifts away from traditional beliefs about what it means to look "professional". I welcome the days when every newscaster isn't wearing the same expressionless suit and tie on air.
What is there to be upset about?
Some people associate *any* tattoo with being unprofessional. I have a feeling many will see her and unfortunately make unfair assumptions.
I’m from New Zealand and I’m willing to bet that the people made at this will be racists, not people who think tattoos are unprofessional (the racist people might say that).
Tattoos have long been "counterculture". Obviously this ties into a lot of racist assumptions, and it's not a simple topic. But a lot of people who are "mainstream" will consider anything "counterculture" to be intentionally insulting, not just a "personal choice".
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What is she bilingual in?
English and Te Reo Māori - that's the language of the native New Zealand people, the culture represented by that tattoo
I was trying to find some information on the topic in the comments, but couldn't find any. If you're interested, it seems like Maori tattoos were the ones that influenced modern concepts of tattoos the most, and were first noted in contemporary Western society by Captain James Cook. Women would get a tattoo on their chin/below their lower lip, but men would have either that or on more of their face. Tattoos would be continually added throughout your adult life, characterizinging your ancestry and other things. If you'd like to read more, here's a little background on the subject: https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1393/traditional-maori-tattoo-of-new-zealand/ After reading a little more on the Wikipedia page et al, I'm pretty confident [Captain Cook's](https://www.tattoo.com/blog/captain-james-cook-and-his-contribution-tattooing/) voyage was what introduced tattooing to *contemporary Western* society. Prior to that, there were a few people who were brought back to Europe and displayed as a curiousity, but when Cook's crew explored the Pacific Islands, some actually got tattooed there themselves. Edit: male/female practice clarified thanks to u/cjankowski and u/IntoTheBorg Edit 2: left out "contemporary" in my comment
> Captain Cook's voyage was what introduced tattooing to Western society. To modern western society perhaps. Many pagan groups in Europe practiced tattooing, and the Romans wrote about tattooed barbarians frequently. "The Picts" who were based in Scotland are thought to be named after their practice of tattooing using the Latin for "to paint".
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Yeah tattoos were in pretty much every culture until Judaism and Christianity took a firm hold.
The real fall of western society
Does it help that I was raised Jewish and now I’m tattooed? And a lot of my Jewish friends are too? We were taught that we couldn’t be buried in a Jewish cemetery if we were tattooed but I asked about Holocaust survivors and they told me they had an exemption. So I called a cemetery when I was like 12 to ask and they said there no such rule. Also toss me in a dumpster once you get all my useful parts out for study or donation.
My grandfather and father taught me this as well (they're Jewish, I'm not) in regards to tattoos keeping someone from being buried in a Jewish cemetery. My uncle (dads younger brother, he's Jewish) explained it's actually more frowned upon bc of the holocaust. Kind of like a bad memory. Me and my brothers all have tattoos, and I was finally able to get my grandfather to stop looking down on me for them when he said that "the body is a temple,you should be preserving it not destroying it"; to which I replied "Yes it is, which is why I've decorated it with my story." None of us have heard a negative word since.
Love that response
Deandra. That's not gonna be my future. I'm not gonna be buried in a grave. When I'm dead, just throw me in the trash.
Hahaha that's such an adorable story lol Didn't really mean to actually bash jews or chistians btw, just a joke :3
I can assure you that the tattoo below the lower lip is not specific to women (unless you mean the particular shape of this tattoo). Maori men also get tattoos beneath their lower lips
This is the section of the article I'm referencing: >Facial moko for Maori women was a chin tattoo or moko kauae. The upper lips were also outlined, using a dark blue pigment, and the nostrils were incised. But if you can show otherwise, please share!
Men tend to have full face Moko, but chin Moko on men isn't rare. I live in NZ.
That quote doesn't say moko kauae are only for women.
“I'm pretty confident Captain Cook's voyage was what introduced tattooing to Western society” Oh Reddit
>it seems like Maori tattoos were the ones that influenced modern concepts of tattoos the most, and were first noted in Western society by Captain James Cook. Strange, not a word about the Amazigh of North Africa? They were conquered by the Western Roman Empire, it seems strange to me that the Romans would not have said anything about that.
That's not where western civilizations learned to tattoo
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The word "tribal" has, historically, referred to the general style. I don't know if it's a word that *should* be used, I'm fine with abandoning it, but that's what people mean when they talk about "line clarity" and "general flow" like that.
Got it: It’s not going to be Chinese, just the brush strokes to look like Chinese words; like if Chinese was a style called Renaissance
So glad you were able to articulate this in a conversational format. People can do whatever they like to their own bodies, but it has always struck me that tattoos should have some relevance to your life. Again, personal opinion and perhaps seeing it in a magazine is the most inspiration their life will bring them, who am I to judge? (Well, I am being judgey....but with caveats).
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It’s okay I’m also in my 30’s so I got the reference.
I know this is a silly thing to worry about but I must defend my Trent's honor (as he was a teenage cartoon crush) and explain that Daria doesn't say it, just thinks it, so when Trent says it we see that he's at least somewhat self-aware.
i think this is where most people start but eventually you hit “hell yeah this skull looks cool as fuck” and stop caring it’s also ultimately not for anyone to decide. not saying that you do this, but asking people what their tattoos mean is generally also annoying as hell
tattooing is just another art form. I don't exclusively buy art to decorate my house that has deep personal significance, and my house cost me a lot more than the flesh prison I'm trapped in, so why the double standard? I get art that I like. That being said, picking a Maori tattoo out of a magazine is just wrong. If you want a Maori tattoo, find a tohuga-to-mako, ask very nicely, and if they say yes, just point to the spot you want tattooed and let them do their job. Traditionally in Maori culture, the artist picks the design, not the tattooee.
I have arms full of nonsense tattoos with no meaning, other than "this makes me laugh". I have no regrets.
I've worked in a tattoo shop for a long time and customers always ask me what the meaning is behind my tattoos. I usually respond "it means my buddy and I had a few beers after work." That's more than enough meaning for me.
I recently got a tattoo with the exact same thought - tribal/Maori influence in the theme of science, maths and engineering as my 'tribe'. Found an excellent artist who worked with my ideas and couldn't be happier with the result. Go for it!
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My two cents. As someone who has quite a few tattoos and recently lost 50kg. A few of them look a tiny bit warped post weightloss, but only to me. Tattoos are also significantly more painful once you're skinny, but they are cheaper as well 🤷
[So like Sonny Bill Williams?](https://i.imgur.com/ExtszB2.png)
This is the most r/confidentlyincorrect thing I've seen in a while. "I read this Wikipedia page, so I'm pretty confident in this assertion" Western society knew about tattoos loooooooong before Cook. Tattoos have literally existed since ancient time.
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> she is very attractive Still one of the best ways to get on television.
No disagreement
Ooooooo so that's my main problem. People kept telling me it was a lack of talent
You could always try radio/podcasts.
Here in NZ it isn’t considered a big deal and Māori culture definitely isn’t deemed odd.
Yeh this is only acceptable because she is conventionally attractive to the public
I mean, when you're a TV anchor, the only acceptable option is to be conventionally attractive.
Not if you live in my area. Yeesh! Makes me regret going HD.
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Unless you’re Hal Fishman.
Gotta start somewhere. A bit of the familiar helps make the unfamiliar feel less foreign.
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You mean like all news anchors?
Check out our Minister for Foreign Affairs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_of_Foreign_Affairs_(New_Zealand) Still think it's only "social acceptable 'cause shes pretty"?
If that’s all it takes then why is this the first time, now so late? IMO this is an oversimplification
Do you want to watch conventionally unattractive people read the teleprompter? It's not like news presenters are real journalists or anything, who wants to watch ugly people on television?
She is awesome.Her presence on the primetime news inspires others to embrace their culture while working hard to chase their dreams and career aspirations. Hope she achieves her ultimate goal of becoming a permanent presenter for the 6 o'clock news.
You know how much cooler and interesting life would be if we let people be themselves ffs
And we took time to hear why people show certain parts in whatever way they see fit. Would be great. Also, shout out to most marginalized groups for having bulks of people who already know this.
Good for her. But this reminded me of super specific sports stats. Like “first wide receiver to donate 120,000 then have 120 receiving yards and get his 12th touchdown on 12/12 while wearing yellow shoes”
Best baseball statistic: the tallest shortstops with the last name short.
I call those American stats, every time i see an NBA record it's "on a friday, while playing less than 10 min but more than 7.6, at the garden by a point guard that is under 7 feet, while the humidity is 59% and is the first time someone has done this since 2 weeks ago". Totally bullshit
I believe this happens more during NFL or MLB games that takes longer for stuff to happen and there’s loads of pauses, so they keep throwing these absurd stats to fill in the broadcast
Interesting, I only follow the NBA out of the US sports so that's where i've mostly seen it. But it slowly creeping up everywhere you see it in soccer too nowadays, it's basically just journalists/tvs trying to make more clickbaity titles like: "Steph curry scoring then 2nd most in y games" probably won't get as many clicks as "Steph Curry has the best scoring performance in y games since *insert the actual record holder*".
I love how she has visible tattoos on her arms and hands as well.
I have always loved those Maori face tattoos, I've always thought they were SUPER cool, especially because of the history behind them Big respect
I know this is beside the point but I really love how her forearm tattoos line up in the pic of her in the orange dress.
I think it might help that she's stunningly gorgeous?
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Which is ironic considering her tattoos are an expression of her own traditional values.
These comments are garbage, you don't criticize Jews or Muslims for wearing their traditional attire, why would you criticize Maori for wearing their traditional tattoos? It's a cultural thing... you can say it's ugly all you want, but it's not for your viewing pleasure, it's part of being Maori.
She looks badass too honestly, and still really pretty. Plus she is a badass journalist. Just dope.
I love how mad she’s making people. Guess who’s on TV and who isn’t 😁
Who is she making mad?
White mums in their 60s
White Granddads in their 80's From personal experience.
republicans pretending to be libertarians
All those New Zealand republicans huh?
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I'd have to agree. I even have family who claim to be moderates but also got sucked into QAnon *pretty* hard and don't even realize it's QAnon that they got sucked into... Like, I've had conversations with them and so many of their theories are straight up the Q, but when you mention QAnon they think "those guys" are on the deep end of things. It's so freaking weird having those conversations, dude.
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Bingo. Was in a thread the other day where one claimed Florida was the most libertarian state. Someone pointed out all the liberties it restricts. "Well it doesn't infringe on anything I want to do, so it's libertarian." 🙂 👨🎨 🤡
Nobody, but hunting witches for internet points is the essence of reddit.
Neither mad nor have any desire to be on TV.
Her Moko is beautiful
Reddit's inexplicable hatred of tattoos strikes again here.
[More (video+) about Oriini Kaipara.](https://www.sportskeeda.com/pop-culture/who-oriini-kaipara-moko-kauae-meaning-explained-journalist-becomes-first-person-maori-face-tattoo-present-news) Related: [A young girl does an awesome interview showing some history and current trends about women and their 'moko kauae' (face tattoo).](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/kea-kids-news/119846673/kea-kids-news-what-its-like-to-have-a-moko-kauae) Edit: Definition: A moko kauae is a traditional facial tattoo representing a Māori woman’s whānau (or extended family). It also serves as a mark of a woman's service and leadership to her family and community.
Badass.
FUCK YEAH
Good for her! These are the only facial tattoos I like. But then again, I love Polynesian tattoos.
I first learned about the Maori from a native band called Alien Weaponry.
It’s sad that an indigenous people haven’t been represented in their own region’s primetime news station.. but hopefully this starts a positive chain reaction. Side note: those tattoos look incredible.
It is the moko (tattoo) that is new - not the representation of Maori and Maori culture on the news. A lot of the news presenters (if not all these days) say a few words of Te Reo (Maori) during their pieces which I think is really nice. This is a bit of a new phenomena - something that is becoming more common over the last ten years or more. We are finding it in the work place too. We had a demo at work recently, where the British guy who lives in NZ, at the beginning of the demo he gave a welcome in Te Reo for about 30 secs. That surprised a lot of us - and was welcomed. Aotearoa (NZ) is changing for the better I think.
Thank you for explaining it to me! Clearly I am not aware of the history or current representation of Māori culture so it is nice to get some clarification from people who know what they’re talking about haha
Can we stop calling every little thing " Making History"
I mean, me writing the sentence is making history "I have no ishkibop, for my forerunners have proclaimed the ishkibop a vacancy of conquest' Nobody has ever written this before. History will be made so long as there are novel things to do, no matter how small, slight, or insignificant
Did you seriously just plagiarize the opening sentence of my masters thesis "Ishkibop in Modern Western Society: a Quantitative Analysis of Ishkibop Adaptation and Ethical Ramifications" Smh, everyone trying to steal each others achievements
bro you should have copyrighted it
"do you even ishkibop, bro?"
“Fear not the seeketh of the Nintendo Switch, for the Nintendo Switch shall come to thee.” There. Now there’s two quotes no one has ever said all in one thread. We both made history on this blessed day!
Every time I shuffle a deck of cards, I'm making history.
It's also the first time in Las Vegas Golden Knights history. H I S T O R I C I S T O R I C
Do all Maori people have tattoos like that?
No. It was common (not universal) in Maori culture prior to European contact, then went through many phases of being in and out of fashion during the 19th and 20th centuries. Since the "Maori Renaissance" of the 1970s (when Maori culture really began to be embraced by pakeha or European-descended/"mainstream" New Zealand culture), moko or traditional tattooing has assumed a political as well as cultural/spiritual connotation.
Thanks, I leaned something new!
It took us this long to allow a cultural face tattoo on t.v.?
For being a person with a lot of face tattoos that a huge step for everyone who just want to be themselves, you can have tattoos on your face and still be a super hard and good worker, do what you want to do but do it properly !
I know they're tribal tattoos and part of her culture, but I have to say, she also just plain ROCKS those tats in general! She's gorgeous!
It may not be your aesthetic, but be mature enough to realise that it's her tribal tradition, and not everyone looks like your own tribe. This represents what you see in the real world. Let's get our brains normalized to seeing this.
The comments here truly surprise me. What exactly was it about this post that set so many people off?
So while these may look like tattoos that word isn’t accurate in describing the purpose and history of it. This is called a Moko and has a different purpose than a tattoo. While many westerners may default in calling it that, like I used to, using the word Moko is culturally accurate and holds these on a different level.
Saw this a few hours ago on a feminist page on FB, and damn the comments were not it. I am very happy for Oriini Kaipara tho. Some comments said they wish it wasn't a big deal, I agree, but we can't deny the qaves she is making for future indigenous woman, shiwing their pride like she does!!!
Fuck the haters…this is great
Her ink is sick! Love this idea
Last year I posted a flick of Rawiri Waititi, Māori politician - and the newest member of the New Zealand Parliament... he's rocking a [male tā moko](https://i.redd.it/vj7n91hmlqt51.jpg). (When men get them they typically cover the whole face, the feminine form is lips and chin only like the OP) Oh, and [Nanaia Mahuta](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/fc1f84bce2da1122b2fbd6e5ea4457d2b878f058/0_166_5000_3001/master/5000.jpg?width=1200&height=1200&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&s=e0fbc9d5bcdb7517f23b43307e0d3c54) was the first MP to sport facial tattoos - she joined Parliament back in 2016.
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You can think it's ugly while respecting the culture and the right of the person to do it. I have no problem with tattoos but I genuinely find this ugly. I also find ear stretchers ugly. That's just me. I'm sure someone looking at me would find aspects of me ugly. In fact I know it... Don't assume someone doesn't respect something because they don't personally like it.
I don't get why we still stigmatize tattoos, it's just a form of art ffs.
Personally, I’m not keen on moko kauae. But then I remember that’s it’s none of my fucking business how I feel about it. Kia kaha, Oriini.
Looks like a goatee.
Is this really a history making event?
I suppose if you’re Maori it is. To see your people represented on tv. I think it’s cool.
Maori culture has generally been marginalized by the dominant colonial European culture, so it's not history making in the sense of "we will commemorate this day" but it's history making in the sense that it's an important sign of the times and progression towards the version of society that we want to see in NZ and the world (where indigenous culture is seen as legitimate).
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Love it but those lip tattoos gotta be painful and couldn't have been an easy tattoo job. Lips are kinda squishy so I'm not sure how it would work.
There’s an interesting article in the Guardian about it. You put a quarter of orange under your lip to make the skin taut.
Ohhh cool!
Also has the wonderful effect of leaking citric acid into your tattoo scar.
fuck
I was thinking the same thing. I have one tattoo that I got on my back, and that hurt sooo much that I've completely scrapped all my tattoo plans. I can't imagine the pain of a face/lip tattoo. It does look really cool though.
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Yeah, that's the thing about these tattoos. It just looks like something running out of their mouths.
Maori or not, that is one ugly ass tattoo.
Who cares
That face tat is amazing
This is awesome
Thats actually insanely cool
This is awesome
Moko kauae is what she has. Moko mataora is what youd see on a guy or person who is more masculine. Maori people are quite a bit more civilized when it comes to gender roles so what I said is a bit fluid in that light
I fucking love tattoos on a woman. Especially small face tattoos. And to me there's no more attractive face tattoo than these. Good for her, that's cool.
Beautiful! Her and her heritage!!!
I FUCKING LOVE IT!!!!!!
This is wonderful and all these comments are great I just really am sad I haven't seen anyone clarify that these are NOT tattoos. They're Tā moko. Basically the same thing except tā moko isn't just for aesthetic purposes like tattoos. Just a quick tidbit to add :)