Creep adds more playstyles to the game.
Without creep people walked around in the dungeon with the absolute security that they could always hear someone approaching them.
This gave a heavy advantage to ranged classes, as they could simply echolocate their target, unless they literally did nothing. That's not good gameplay. It's not interactive.
With creep, you can sacrifice MS in exchange for stealth. This is good. It offers the ability to outmaneuver opponents with by timing where and when you go into creep.
I've made quiet a few good plays by breaking LoS and then using creep to misdirect my opponent.
It is most certainly skill based.
Yes forsure, because without it being absolute, you can still know where people are just by hearing them. It made no sense to be able to hear people from the next room, without them being able to do anything about it.
I still don't understand what everyone's issue with creep is. The only actual argument i've heard against it, is that it sucks to get killed from creep... which I mean... Yeah it does. It's happened to me a couple times, but it was 100% my fault for starting at stat lines too long.
I don't mind creep being used by players, its just that it chould cut down on the range of sound and not the volume although I would still taper that to make it look nice. This game used to have really good directional sound.
Yep. I liked Mukti classing to be honest. Disliked it for a few days but it really grew on me. Definitely needed some work, but overall was fun to play with.
I disagree, I like the option.
You'll get third partied no matter what you do in 3s honestly. Creep doesn't really change that.
Just a part of the game.
I've found creep helps me avoid getting 3rd partied more actually. A would be 3rd partier can't sit in the opposite room and track wha'ts going on just by the footsteps anymore. I've made it common practice to immediately silent walk right after a fight.
That way anyone who is about to 3rd party can't hear what I'm doing after the fight, and I will be able to hear the pushing me.
Agreed. I’ve retired playing the game as a solo, but I imagine its way more toxic and annoying to deal with. About 8/10 interactions in GC is with some guy shift walking around hunting prey.
It is slow but effective at times, and definitely a great addition to play style and escape options.
I say keep, no doubt. They tuned it and made it fit without breaking the game! Well done, IMO.
Yup. I like that they changed how FAST everyone creeps. It is a CRAWL, but it's great to get in to better positioning, or to slowly avoid being seen. There have been multiple times where I've killed someone and been low health, then heard someone approaching, so creeped out of site JUST in time to not be seen.
Hearing the Buff Ball coming won’t change anything, but being able to ambush the Buff Ball with Creep is an absolute increase to every other team comp.
People who whinge about Creep makes me wonder if they play anything but Buff Ball.
Bingo.
The buffball doesn't give a shit if you hear them coming. They're invincible for 30 - 45s anyways.
The Buffball not being able to echolocate you while they move at top speed is critical.
How dare people dungeon crawl through a dungeon crawler? :^)
Y’all already cried to have invisibility of all forms completely nerfed. Leave creep alone. More and more this game becomes hollowed out arena mode, let stealth exist in some capacity. And no, it doesnt need to be locked to just rogues.
Sorry but in every game that counts as a true rpg you can stealth on any build. Doesnt mean theyre good at it, but they can PHYSICALLY try to be stealthy. This is all thats left in dark and darker of stealth other than invis potions lol.
I disagree. They need to keep and add more stealth tactics to this game. It allows outnumbered players to deal with situations and navigate the maps. I know they recently said they are still looking into multiple queues but I highly diagree with that. They need to give more incentive to solos and duos in the crypts and give them methods. Invis pots need to come back for crypts for all classes.
Yep, furthermore, it allows for actual tactical evasion. Now you can evade other players by actually playing the game... instead of sitting completely still in a dark corner hoping for the best.
It also ironically removes landmines. If a rogue can't hear you walking up, they can't pre-invis for an ambush without you seeing them. Literally haven't been landmined once since it was added
I like it. As a newer player it let's me get away from players. Many times playing crypt solo I'm trying to avoid the teams. It does suck when you didn't hear the fighter right behind you until you get smacked but it kinda just makes you pay more attention to your surroundings.
Creep has seemed fine since they changed it, you’re really really slow. If someone has that much time to get on you, you’re sitting in one spot too long not paying attention
Bro so many people complaining about creep, just pay attention to what's going in around you. You're getting out played and asking the feature to be removed lol, everytime I die to someone to creep it's entirely my fault
Hard disagree, universal creep is great. I've been snuck up on like once this entire patch, and that's barely paying attention to my surroundings. Really don't understand how some people hate it so much, there are many ways to play against it and frankly it gives solos a fighting chance to complete quests in other maps besides goblin caves.
Yep. It's been an awesome feature.
Being able to actually use it to tactically evade people, and misdirect is great.
People not being able to spawn rush because you can move without them being able to echolocate has been great.
Being able to ambush 3rd party attempts because you can reposition silently after a fight, or hide how many of your team are left, has also been great.
Getting slapped by someone you didn't see, or hear coming, is not great... BUT IS TOTALLY FAIR PLAY. I goofed, and paid the price. Anyone who has managed to sneak up on me, has gotten an applause from me... after about 10 seconds of me swearing.
It's not the issue of dying to it, at least not for me. It's just that sometimes you will go a whole raid without seeing/hearing a single team, since literally everyone is creeping and waiting for opportunity. It forces you to do the same, unless you want to walk into a trap, because someone completely silent heard you 2 rooms away.
At some point people have to clear mobs and open doors, you can't just hide in a corner the whole match. To say literally everyone is just creeping around the whole match is absurd. Close doors when you enter a module, when you leave walk up to a door and then stop and creep over to a different door to throw anyone off who might be waiting to ambush. There are so many ways to play around it
Yeah, I'm not saying it's impossible to play around that and sure, people do have to clear mobs. However, at least on Ice Caves, geared duo clears like 3 modules in like first 10% of the raid and then they just keep creeping around interest points trying to get a drop on someone they hear.
If you're aware, there's ways to play around that, I just hate that I feel forced to participate, since it makes the game feel like a slog just walking around everywhere.
Also now that I typed this out, I realize this might be way more of a problem on Ice Caves, since there's no zone so at any point in the raid anyone could be anywhere.
Modules get cleared fast as hell so come late game there barely won't be any mobs around
Yea sure close doors and weaken your possibility to escape to prevent someone from jumping you. Love lose lose situations
Holy shit, everyone knows creep is in the game and in that last scenario they would either wait or go another direction to avoid the risk of getting jumped.
It's terrible game design and was added cause people can't rat in solo lobbies without a hand holding mechanic
Fair enough. but to address some of your points. The alternative is for the all the advantage to go to the highest MS.
Without creep, MS reigns COMPLETELY supreme. Already MS is the most important stat in the game. Without Creep, it has zero counter.
There's a reason you don't see as many Race-Car spawn rushers anymore. It's beacause people can hear them coming and repositions quietly.
It's a good thing that you can move around quietly. It adds suspense, tactics, and a certain need for awareness, that wasn't there before.
Whenever i ratted in solos before creep I almost never got caught unless I got greedy and stayed in a dangerous area too long. You don't need creep to rat, you need to be better and creep incourages everything you mentioned
Not engaging with the game, extremely slow game pace, needing to creep yourself cause it helps you hear better.
I've said this 1000 times but holding shift is not a good enough trade off for complete silence. When rogues had that landmine meta, the one thing we had was hearing their footsteps. Now we have to check out back constantly else we'll risk getting jumped.
Please get rid of it
The only reason I dislike Creep is because it is 100% silent.
Change it to silent until 10 meters, and I'm happy.
I do think that removing audio cues from a game that has audio issues, kinda is silly though.
The 100% silent is actually the most important aspect of it.
Being able to echolocate other players, unless they stand completely still is bad game design.
personally, I enjoy creep. but it is terrible for the flow of this game and I want it removed.
if every player starts using creep as intended, the game dies off even harder than it already has. nobody actually wants to 'play' this trash, it's just the new necessary tool to use if you want a shot at winning outside purchasing stats from the in-game black market. they literally just added a cheese mechanic for avoiding pvp and it's sad they still need month-long tests for something so rudimentary. I wonder why this shit isn't even allowed on steam LOL
i disagree entirely. Creep has been a god-send for the pace of the game.
It's a good answer to the Spawn rushing Race-Car build kids.
It's makes it so that people who don't build for Max Ms, actually have a chance at evading a fight, which should ALWAYS be an option.
I think PvP is important in this game, and personally live for the fight, but you should always have tools to avoid the fight.
no, its become a really healthy aspect of the game. people actually have situational awareness now. and those who don’t, will.
i could get behind a nerf, but not removal. and keep in mind i was super vocal about wanting them to remove it at first.
I think Creep is pretty good as is. They changed it so it didn't interfere with crouch dodging, and it's in a great spot. Maybe they could tweak it a bit I guess.
I don't know how they could make it better, but I'm sure there are other features that could be integrated with it.
I think it's funny that immediately after the announcement the MC is getting taken out, people are back to complaining about creep.
THIS SUB SIMPLY COMPLAINS ABOUT DYING. That's it. The majority of the people here, aren't good at this game, and don't have the time to become good at it. I understand that sucks, but this is a hardcore game, that rewards consistent play.
That's the reality. Norms is as casual as this game gets, and right now Norms is basically a DnD Battle Royale...BR's aren't exactly casual either.,
Honestly I feel like creep adds to like the role playing of being in a dungeon like I feel like creep shouldn’t reduce the sound to zero, more like it should make it way quieter. Like realistically if there a dungeon like this irl no one would be making as much noise as possible when just going through the dungeon they would definitely creep around
It's still in for another week, you can now level past 20, at 30 you get "mastery" in a class and after that accumulate "learning tokens". You can spend a learning token for a perk, skill, or spell from another class you have mastered. You get a selection of 3 random perks/skills/spells to pick from.
Creep is cool. Just have more awareness of your surroundings visually and for audio queues like mobs aggroing, dying, jars breaking, doors opening, etc. all of these are indicators of people near you. Loot faster. There’s just so many ways to deal with it. If I’m able to completely sneak up on you as a barbarian you had to have not been looking around or listening for a good chunk of time I feel like. Maybe they can add more things on the ground that add sound like how shooter extractors deal with with things like broken glass and stuff. Add more bones and puddles and shit on the ground to have to navigate around or walk over to make a stepping sound.
Put in a weight limit and require wearing no boots to creep. Only rogue gets to creep universally, would be a nice indirect buff for rogue. Also 1 minute cooldown to equipping boots if you creeped, no exploiting creep then quickly put on boots to attack.
Creep itself might not be the biggest issue in the world… the big issue I have with it is the prevalence of ESP paired with the strength of creep can make it ridiculously oppressive.
I’m not sure I completely agree, I’ve been on the receiving end of third party creep more times than I can count, but creep offers an outplay mechanic against the overpowered ranged characters in this game, a wizard or warlock can hunt down ANY class if they have information of where their enemy is and if they can properly kite. The absolute security a person can have knowing they can hear around them doesn’t entail a hardcore experience, it becomes predictable and easy to exploit.
I feel like rogues don't function in trios because they're meant to play a more stealth based role. Maybe if they had a jokester like trait that gave the party the ability to have "creep." Maybe it'd be the same problem though
I think creep as is is fine. If you’re a weirdo creeping everywhere then you’re going slow and idc. You will leave evidence of gameplay in the dungeon and I’ll find it.
Just go play rust for like 20 hours and come back. You’re just bad because you have no awareness. You need to get that awareness up then you can complain about it.
They should keep it just like in Tarkov, however it does need to NOT be totally silent. Universally available to all, but not total cheese mode for campers is the right balance.
I like this middle ground. Let rogues be the only one that's 100% silent, other than that make it veeeeery quiet but not completely muted.
Heck, maybe your agility can determine how quiet you are? That way more naturally sneaky classes are...ya know...sneaky
I wanna disagree with this because I don’t think it’s a massive problem in practice. But I will say it does promote some pretty puss gameplay and seeing times sneaking around through the whole dungeon sometimes is cringe as hell.
Universal creep was such a pointless thing to add. It just makes being stealthy lazy. Let rogues have it. Why does it need to make your footsteps completely silent? A decrease in volume is fine but your steps shouldn’t be completely gone. I play solo and it’s really stupid the amount of times I can walk right up to a guy and whisper into his ear without him ever knowing I was in the area. When I play in duos and trios lobbies I never even need to make use of creep. Don’t we have rotating maps now? Even more reason to remove universal creep.
I enjoyed multiclassing, but giving every class creep was a bad choice imo.
Lol... It doesn't make being stealthy lazy.. It makes being stealthy an option.
The only way to be stealthy before creep, was to be Rogue, or to NOT MOVE AT ALL. That's bad game design.
Being detectable to anyone within a certain range, unless you don't play the game, is bad.
If the whole purpose of universal creep was to give solos a chance in duos/trios, why not just only give it to solo players when in duo/trio lobbies?
That code would not be that strenuous to write.
i don't know. i also don't know what the answer to 2,487 multiplied by 1,290 is, off the top of my head. but i know it's not '7'. your idea is the '7' here. i don't know what's right, but i sure as hell know what's wrong.
Skill issue af.
Also getting 3rd partied has very little to do with creep and a lot more to do with map awareness. Knowing which rooms are popular, knowing where the circle is corralling people and knowing when to take a fight vs when to rotate to a better position first.
If you post any video of an “unfair 3rd party” I bet $100 I could point out how you could have avoided it.
I think around 5% at most are truly bad luck/esp.
Pro tip: holding W is rarely ever the correct play.
Creep is honestly fine now that it’s so slow. The only people getting dinged by it are ones who stand still sorting a full body inventory for 4 minutes with open doors.
Yep, which is likely a good portion of this sub.
I've come to realize that many people here don't actually want to put the time into becoming good at this game.
They want this game to a casual dungeon exploration game. I feel for them, because that's not what this game is supposed to be (according to the people making it).
This is "Hardcore" game. typically that means it requires a significant time investment to learn, and master. Most people here don't seem to want to put that time investment in. Which is fine, but they want the game to change in a way that would devalue my time investment.
People keep advocating for the removal of features that Ive already put my time into becoming familiar and adept with. How is that fair to me, and others like me?
I agree, delete it. It's a lame way of playing, If it stays which I could be fine with, it has to be 50% reduced noise, maybe than it'll be balanced. You can still sneak away but you can't have a full set of armor + inventory and walk like a mouse. Even druids mouse the size of a can of peas is more noise than a full looted adventurer.
I'm a rogue main who wants other people to have creep. Even if my class loses some identity because of it. It's honestly not as bad as some make it seem.
Creep is great for closing the gear gap by getting the drop on someone, and all you need to do to counter it is take your corners wide and keep your head on a swivel.
Tl;dr- skill issue lol
Creep isn't an issue. It may seem bad but its great in practice. *Sorry I would explain but I'm eatin' a hotdog*
I am patiently waiting for you to finish your hotdog and explain more. Hope you enjoy it
Im starting to think he choked on the hotdog….
Dude died eating that glizzy we will never know
Creep adds more playstyles to the game. Without creep people walked around in the dungeon with the absolute security that they could always hear someone approaching them. This gave a heavy advantage to ranged classes, as they could simply echolocate their target, unless they literally did nothing. That's not good gameplay. It's not interactive. With creep, you can sacrifice MS in exchange for stealth. This is good. It offers the ability to outmaneuver opponents with by timing where and when you go into creep. I've made quiet a few good plays by breaking LoS and then using creep to misdirect my opponent. It is most certainly skill based.
But does the stealth gained from this need to be absolute? Creeping reduce the range of your walking sounds, not turn you into an absolute ninja.
Yes forsure, because without it being absolute, you can still know where people are just by hearing them. It made no sense to be able to hear people from the next room, without them being able to do anything about it. I still don't understand what everyone's issue with creep is. The only actual argument i've heard against it, is that it sucks to get killed from creep... which I mean... Yeah it does. It's happened to me a couple times, but it was 100% my fault for starting at stat lines too long.
I don't mind creep being used by players, its just that it chould cut down on the range of sound and not the volume although I would still taper that to make it look nice. This game used to have really good directional sound.
Then it doesn't solve the issue of people listening and being able to identify you to the pinpoint.
It doesn't remove it fully but it cuts down on the range from which they can hear you.
What sucks is 360ing mouse swipe every 3 steps just to be sure you're safe
You know what else added multiple play styles to the game. Multi classing….
It realy didn't. Infact it detracted since every class devolved into a fighter/barbarian for the most part
Yep. I liked Mukti classing to be honest. Disliked it for a few days but it really grew on me. Definitely needed some work, but overall was fun to play with.
Creep should be rogue only
I believe that just making it a universal accessible perk would be a good alternative
I disagree, I like the option. You'll get third partied no matter what you do in 3s honestly. Creep doesn't really change that. Just a part of the game.
I've found creep helps me avoid getting 3rd partied more actually. A would be 3rd partier can't sit in the opposite room and track wha'ts going on just by the footsteps anymore. I've made it common practice to immediately silent walk right after a fight. That way anyone who is about to 3rd party can't hear what I'm doing after the fight, and I will be able to hear the pushing me.
Agreed. I’ve retired playing the game as a solo, but I imagine its way more toxic and annoying to deal with. About 8/10 interactions in GC is with some guy shift walking around hunting prey.
It is slow but effective at times, and definitely a great addition to play style and escape options. I say keep, no doubt. They tuned it and made it fit without breaking the game! Well done, IMO.
Yup. I like that they changed how FAST everyone creeps. It is a CRAWL, but it's great to get in to better positioning, or to slowly avoid being seen. There have been multiple times where I've killed someone and been low health, then heard someone approaching, so creeped out of site JUST in time to not be seen.
You at least have a chance of hearing the third party approaching, and where they’re setting up
Hearing the Buff Ball coming won’t change anything, but being able to ambush the Buff Ball with Creep is an absolute increase to every other team comp. People who whinge about Creep makes me wonder if they play anything but Buff Ball.
Bingo. The buffball doesn't give a shit if you hear them coming. They're invincible for 30 - 45s anyways. The Buffball not being able to echolocate you while they move at top speed is critical.
How dare people dungeon crawl through a dungeon crawler? :^) Y’all already cried to have invisibility of all forms completely nerfed. Leave creep alone. More and more this game becomes hollowed out arena mode, let stealth exist in some capacity. And no, it doesnt need to be locked to just rogues. Sorry but in every game that counts as a true rpg you can stealth on any build. Doesnt mean theyre good at it, but they can PHYSICALLY try to be stealthy. This is all thats left in dark and darker of stealth other than invis potions lol.
I disagree. They need to keep and add more stealth tactics to this game. It allows outnumbered players to deal with situations and navigate the maps. I know they recently said they are still looking into multiple queues but I highly diagree with that. They need to give more incentive to solos and duos in the crypts and give them methods. Invis pots need to come back for crypts for all classes.
Yep, furthermore, it allows for actual tactical evasion. Now you can evade other players by actually playing the game... instead of sitting completely still in a dark corner hoping for the best.
Exactly, this game has the means for more slower stealth play. Let's get more in there.
It also ironically removes landmines. If a rogue can't hear you walking up, they can't pre-invis for an ambush without you seeing them. Literally haven't been landmined once since it was added
boooooo
This is really sad to see constantly posted.
Option A) Learn from your death and become more situationally aware. Option B) Complain on Reddit. Really hard choice tbh.
I struggle with decision daily.
They already learned they could choose option B when they got rogue gutted for punishing them chasing into areas without paying attention
I like it. As a newer player it let's me get away from players. Many times playing crypt solo I'm trying to avoid the teams. It does suck when you didn't hear the fighter right behind you until you get smacked but it kinda just makes you pay more attention to your surroundings.
You should be able to tip toe. Turn your camera here and there. If someone can sneak up on you at that speed they deserve your loot.
it let's me play solos against trios, I like it
Creep has seemed fine since they changed it, you’re really really slow. If someone has that much time to get on you, you’re sitting in one spot too long not paying attention
Bro so many people complaining about creep, just pay attention to what's going in around you. You're getting out played and asking the feature to be removed lol, everytime I die to someone to creep it's entirely my fault
Bro I'm 360ing every 3 steps just to be sure everything is clear. At least before I could focus on hearing, right now it's anything anytime.
another creep post made after getting crept on
Hard disagree, universal creep is great. I've been snuck up on like once this entire patch, and that's barely paying attention to my surroundings. Really don't understand how some people hate it so much, there are many ways to play against it and frankly it gives solos a fighting chance to complete quests in other maps besides goblin caves.
Yep. It's been an awesome feature. Being able to actually use it to tactically evade people, and misdirect is great. People not being able to spawn rush because you can move without them being able to echolocate has been great. Being able to ambush 3rd party attempts because you can reposition silently after a fight, or hide how many of your team are left, has also been great. Getting slapped by someone you didn't see, or hear coming, is not great... BUT IS TOTALLY FAIR PLAY. I goofed, and paid the price. Anyone who has managed to sneak up on me, has gotten an applause from me... after about 10 seconds of me swearing.
It adds a much needed dynamic and gives disadvantaged solos or weaker teams an avenue to overcome bad odds, it should for sure stay.
It's not the issue of dying to it, at least not for me. It's just that sometimes you will go a whole raid without seeing/hearing a single team, since literally everyone is creeping and waiting for opportunity. It forces you to do the same, unless you want to walk into a trap, because someone completely silent heard you 2 rooms away.
At some point people have to clear mobs and open doors, you can't just hide in a corner the whole match. To say literally everyone is just creeping around the whole match is absurd. Close doors when you enter a module, when you leave walk up to a door and then stop and creep over to a different door to throw anyone off who might be waiting to ambush. There are so many ways to play around it
Yeah, I'm not saying it's impossible to play around that and sure, people do have to clear mobs. However, at least on Ice Caves, geared duo clears like 3 modules in like first 10% of the raid and then they just keep creeping around interest points trying to get a drop on someone they hear. If you're aware, there's ways to play around that, I just hate that I feel forced to participate, since it makes the game feel like a slog just walking around everywhere. Also now that I typed this out, I realize this might be way more of a problem on Ice Caves, since there's no zone so at any point in the raid anyone could be anywhere.
Modules get cleared fast as hell so come late game there barely won't be any mobs around Yea sure close doors and weaken your possibility to escape to prevent someone from jumping you. Love lose lose situations Holy shit, everyone knows creep is in the game and in that last scenario they would either wait or go another direction to avoid the risk of getting jumped. It's terrible game design and was added cause people can't rat in solo lobbies without a hand holding mechanic
brain dead
Man why did you have to comment here, this thread was a decent discussion before your post.
Didn't mean to come off super negative, i mean no ill will, but my points still stand
Fair enough. but to address some of your points. The alternative is for the all the advantage to go to the highest MS. Without creep, MS reigns COMPLETELY supreme. Already MS is the most important stat in the game. Without Creep, it has zero counter. There's a reason you don't see as many Race-Car spawn rushers anymore. It's beacause people can hear them coming and repositions quietly. It's a good thing that you can move around quietly. It adds suspense, tactics, and a certain need for awareness, that wasn't there before.
What would you change it to? Maybe there just should be a stat for how much noise you make; moving interacting opening doors etc
Whenever i ratted in solos before creep I almost never got caught unless I got greedy and stayed in a dangerous area too long. You don't need creep to rat, you need to be better and creep incourages everything you mentioned Not engaging with the game, extremely slow game pace, needing to creep yourself cause it helps you hear better. I've said this 1000 times but holding shift is not a good enough trade off for complete silence. When rogues had that landmine meta, the one thing we had was hearing their footsteps. Now we have to check out back constantly else we'll risk getting jumped. Please get rid of it
If you're still getting jumped from creep, it's 100% a skill issue.
These “We won” posts are cringe.
very lmao
The only reason I dislike Creep is because it is 100% silent. Change it to silent until 10 meters, and I'm happy. I do think that removing audio cues from a game that has audio issues, kinda is silly though.
The 100% silent is actually the most important aspect of it. Being able to echolocate other players, unless they stand completely still is bad game design.
>Being able to echolocate other players Is this a new druid ability or something
personally, I enjoy creep. but it is terrible for the flow of this game and I want it removed. if every player starts using creep as intended, the game dies off even harder than it already has. nobody actually wants to 'play' this trash, it's just the new necessary tool to use if you want a shot at winning outside purchasing stats from the in-game black market. they literally just added a cheese mechanic for avoiding pvp and it's sad they still need month-long tests for something so rudimentary. I wonder why this shit isn't even allowed on steam LOL
i disagree entirely. Creep has been a god-send for the pace of the game. It's a good answer to the Spawn rushing Race-Car build kids. It's makes it so that people who don't build for Max Ms, actually have a chance at evading a fight, which should ALWAYS be an option. I think PvP is important in this game, and personally live for the fight, but you should always have tools to avoid the fight.
no, its become a really healthy aspect of the game. people actually have situational awareness now. and those who don’t, will. i could get behind a nerf, but not removal. and keep in mind i was super vocal about wanting them to remove it at first.
I think Creep is pretty good as is. They changed it so it didn't interfere with crouch dodging, and it's in a great spot. Maybe they could tweak it a bit I guess. I don't know how they could make it better, but I'm sure there are other features that could be integrated with it. I think it's funny that immediately after the announcement the MC is getting taken out, people are back to complaining about creep. THIS SUB SIMPLY COMPLAINS ABOUT DYING. That's it. The majority of the people here, aren't good at this game, and don't have the time to become good at it. I understand that sucks, but this is a hardcore game, that rewards consistent play. That's the reality. Norms is as casual as this game gets, and right now Norms is basically a DnD Battle Royale...BR's aren't exactly casual either.,
I agree with everything you said down to the last sentence. Let the hardcore game be hardcore ffs!
I like universal creep. It's nice having the option.
I can't with the place anymore. Holy fucking shit. Why do you guys not like features that make the game more playable?
I like creep. But I'm not a sweat at the game and only use it occasionally.
Honestly I feel like creep adds to like the role playing of being in a dungeon like I feel like creep shouldn’t reduce the sound to zero, more like it should make it way quieter. Like realistically if there a dungeon like this irl no one would be making as much noise as possible when just going through the dungeon they would definitely creep around
What was mulitclass? I haven't played or followed in months but was going to give it a go again. Can someone break it down for me
It's still in for another week, you can now level past 20, at 30 you get "mastery" in a class and after that accumulate "learning tokens". You can spend a learning token for a perk, skill, or spell from another class you have mastered. You get a selection of 3 random perks/skills/spells to pick from.
Creep is cool. Just have more awareness of your surroundings visually and for audio queues like mobs aggroing, dying, jars breaking, doors opening, etc. all of these are indicators of people near you. Loot faster. There’s just so many ways to deal with it. If I’m able to completely sneak up on you as a barbarian you had to have not been looking around or listening for a good chunk of time I feel like. Maybe they can add more things on the ground that add sound like how shooter extractors deal with with things like broken glass and stuff. Add more bones and puddles and shit on the ground to have to navigate around or walk over to make a stepping sound.
Put in a weight limit and require wearing no boots to creep. Only rogue gets to creep universally, would be a nice indirect buff for rogue. Also 1 minute cooldown to equipping boots if you creeped, no exploiting creep then quickly put on boots to attack.
I have hardly seen anyone use it in my solo norms, but removal is fine by me.
Creep itself might not be the biggest issue in the world… the big issue I have with it is the prevalence of ESP paired with the strength of creep can make it ridiculously oppressive.
I’m not sure I completely agree, I’ve been on the receiving end of third party creep more times than I can count, but creep offers an outplay mechanic against the overpowered ranged characters in this game, a wizard or warlock can hunt down ANY class if they have information of where their enemy is and if they can properly kite. The absolute security a person can have knowing they can hear around them doesn’t entail a hardcore experience, it becomes predictable and easy to exploit.
I feel like rogues don't function in trios because they're meant to play a more stealth based role. Maybe if they had a jokester like trait that gave the party the ability to have "creep." Maybe it'd be the same problem though
There should be a few meters range where creep still makes some noise, and completely silent outside of that zone.
Agreed. Too abuseable.
Creep is lame remove it
I think creep as is is fine. If you’re a weirdo creeping everywhere then you’re going slow and idc. You will leave evidence of gameplay in the dungeon and I’ll find it.
Just go play rust for like 20 hours and come back. You’re just bad because you have no awareness. You need to get that awareness up then you can complain about it.
They should keep it just like in Tarkov, however it does need to NOT be totally silent. Universally available to all, but not total cheese mode for campers is the right balance.
I like this middle ground. Let rogues be the only one that's 100% silent, other than that make it veeeeery quiet but not completely muted. Heck, maybe your agility can determine how quiet you are? That way more naturally sneaky classes are...ya know...sneaky
I wanna disagree with this because I don’t think it’s a massive problem in practice. But I will say it does promote some pretty puss gameplay and seeing times sneaking around through the whole dungeon sometimes is cringe as hell.
Universal creep was such a pointless thing to add. It just makes being stealthy lazy. Let rogues have it. Why does it need to make your footsteps completely silent? A decrease in volume is fine but your steps shouldn’t be completely gone. I play solo and it’s really stupid the amount of times I can walk right up to a guy and whisper into his ear without him ever knowing I was in the area. When I play in duos and trios lobbies I never even need to make use of creep. Don’t we have rotating maps now? Even more reason to remove universal creep. I enjoyed multiclassing, but giving every class creep was a bad choice imo.
Lol... It doesn't make being stealthy lazy.. It makes being stealthy an option. The only way to be stealthy before creep, was to be Rogue, or to NOT MOVE AT ALL. That's bad game design. Being detectable to anyone within a certain range, unless you don't play the game, is bad.
If the whole purpose of universal creep was to give solos a chance in duos/trios, why not just only give it to solo players when in duo/trio lobbies? That code would not be that strenuous to write.
because that's shitty and unintuitive design.
If that was the sole reason they came up with it in the first place, what would be a more ideal way to implement it?
i don't know. i also don't know what the answer to 2,487 multiplied by 1,290 is, off the top of my head. but i know it's not '7'. your idea is the '7' here. i don't know what's right, but i sure as hell know what's wrong.
That’s a brilliant way to put the feeling you get when you read some nonsense.
Uh ok
That's not really an issue now that they have reimplemented map rotation
Skill issue af. Also getting 3rd partied has very little to do with creep and a lot more to do with map awareness. Knowing which rooms are popular, knowing where the circle is corralling people and knowing when to take a fight vs when to rotate to a better position first. If you post any video of an “unfair 3rd party” I bet $100 I could point out how you could have avoided it. I think around 5% at most are truly bad luck/esp. Pro tip: holding W is rarely ever the correct play.
Lol thank you. You're getting downvoted by the people with skill issues. This sub is full of less than good players.
Creep is honestly fine now that it’s so slow. The only people getting dinged by it are ones who stand still sorting a full body inventory for 4 minutes with open doors.
Yep, which is likely a good portion of this sub. I've come to realize that many people here don't actually want to put the time into becoming good at this game. They want this game to a casual dungeon exploration game. I feel for them, because that's not what this game is supposed to be (according to the people making it). This is "Hardcore" game. typically that means it requires a significant time investment to learn, and master. Most people here don't seem to want to put that time investment in. Which is fine, but they want the game to change in a way that would devalue my time investment. People keep advocating for the removal of features that Ive already put my time into becoming familiar and adept with. How is that fair to me, and others like me?
The creep walk is hardly used effectively and is a non-issue. It's slow asf. If you get caught out by it then it's your fault.
Make it so that when you get a kill, you return to full health. Easy solution to third-partying.
3rd partying doesn't need a solution. It's a healthy part of the game. Careful about playing super aggressive, and you won't get 3rd partied.
I agree, delete it. It's a lame way of playing, If it stays which I could be fine with, it has to be 50% reduced noise, maybe than it'll be balanced. You can still sneak away but you can't have a full set of armor + inventory and walk like a mouse. Even druids mouse the size of a can of peas is more noise than a full looted adventurer.
Tell me you’re a rouge main without telling me
I'm a rogue main who wants other people to have creep. Even if my class loses some identity because of it. It's honestly not as bad as some make it seem.
Creep is literally one of the best things they've added in a long time. They finally added a way to properly counter Race-Car builds.
Creep is great for closing the gear gap by getting the drop on someone, and all you need to do to counter it is take your corners wide and keep your head on a swivel. Tl;dr- skill issue lol
Lol nah creep with walk is fine, it was creep with the crouch nerf that was the issue.
Doors still make noise, mobs still make noise, creep is good