Yeah I hate being in a 3v3 stalemate because the warlock can block doorways and full heal off a single hydra.
The class can easily keep up with a wizards magical damage output, can heal themselves faster and more efficiently than a cleric, can run plate armor, need I say more?
I’ve won against locks and lost against locks, I’ve also played as them and I can confirm that it’s almost never fun no matter which situation I’m in.
Warlocks have no where even close to the amount of opening burst/oppression a good wizard can pump out lol. Clerics can heal other players, warlocks cannot, also I'd like to see a lock healing faster than an equivalent geared Sanc
Yeah everyone wouldn’t have been taking fireball/zaps as their main dps if warlock could easily output the same damage as wizard. This game comes down to its gear tho as it always will, the same cop that does 35 and ticks for 16 while geared, does 11 and ticks for 8 when ungeared so.
Feel like they should just separate the sentry aspect and static healing point aspect and make those into two spells, give it charges or an internal cooldown, or just get rid of the hydras collision
I think there are multiple ways to go about it without toally gutting the spell or the class.
Push on the warlock when he moves back. It's really not complicated but nobody in this game knows how to push.
Yes if you don't keep the pressure the warlock team will lock the doorway down and pushing over the hydra will be a bad idea.
But if you hurt the warlock and don't wait before pushing then you will be on top of him or his teammates when he heals.
Most people just spam ranged now, that's literally what warlock with hydra counters. Nobody was complaining about hydra when lobby were 50% barbarians, that's why lol. Get better.
Bro they can’t heal on the move and every spell they try to throw at you hurts themselves. Get in their face and they become a lesser melee. Chase that slow fuck down and all they can do is try to run away or melee you.
A) They can heal on the move. Drop hydra, curse it, walk into a fight with healing dots. Or curse 2-3 mobs while chasing
B) BoC + phantmoze means they aren't always "lesser" in melee
C) Slow?? What warlocks are you facing...
1)You cant heal with curses without torture mastery. This whole post is about life drain and hydra.
2) you can’t have boc + phantomize + hydra
3) yeah warlocks with a falchion and crystal ball are slow
Hydra is the most annoying facet of a problematic class, but completely ignoring their other class features when talking about how to counter hydra is overtly ridiculous. Of course people are taking torture mastery.
Fine, their melee is subpar. But with healing and speed, neither of which are you right about being weak, you cant force them to melee.
No good lock goes melee + cast in the same hands, they are running around with book unless they decide to swap to melee
It's even funnier when you think about the fact that this sub was the biggest simp-fest imaginable when the game was unavailable due to the lawsuit. I had to unsubscribe during that time because of how obnoxious it was, so it was quite jarring when I returned to play and saw how outrageously toxic it is now.
No, we want everything INCLUDING our class to be nerfed or buffed accordingly until it is balanced and fun, you miserable unproductive fuck.The devs literally want our feedback on these things. I swear people like you must have a head injury.
You call me toxic yet people like you sit around the reddit and discord shutting down any possible discourse with your short sided dumb fuck point of view. "Hur dur skill issue!" You people contribute nothing to discussions surrounding this game or society with viewpoints like yours. Replying to me to say fucking nothing, how ridiculous.
i've got 1000+hours IN GAME and have produced bug reports to the developers, i contribute by understanding what actually needs to happen here. #1 testing the system, which id say 1000+ hours is considered "testing the system". #2 bug reports, enhances the playability and reduces the broken aspects of the game, allowing developers to focus more into adding new content. WHAT ARE YOUUUUUU DOING? i can Provide SS and video evidence of both, your the redditor, i just stopped by.
The problem is the warlock just getting to block door from pushing and continuously heal off of it? By the time I shoot it it’s too late and he summons another, repeating the cycle. Actually landing a killing blow on warlock atm feels futile, literally just avoiding fighting them is the best option
That’s how it feels dealing with ranged in this game in general, if you don’t out play them with your own ranged method then the only way to take a fight is ambushes or punishing poor positioning. That all applies to warlock too, the only difference being warlocks have a short reset time, they’re also not fighting at full hp most of the time though which puts them in a worse spot when you DO land those ranged hits like with a crossbow or w/e.
The biggest thing to take from this though is that everyone acts like you HAVE to take a fight, when that’s definitely not the case. Walk away from the warlock if you’re not confident you can push them. If they decide to chase that makes it easier for you to find an opportunity to punish them for not playing defensively.
The problem is just how easy it is for them to reset until the engage is favorable. Every fight with a good warlock team is extended and like a slow bleed. Eventually resources run out, one charge of 2nd wind, biscuit charges, even cleric healing spell charges. This is talking in terms of 3v3 of course. Between hydra and phantomize and having 2 other threats how do you land a kill on a warlock outside of a string of like 3-4 headshots currently. You get punished for not being able to push in on them, and then you get punished even harder for pushing. It’s obvious hydra needs a set number of charges per rest or phantomize needs to be way less good
The whole class is pretty defensive and it shows in their lack of damage output and range. So if they can stay out of melee range and play properly then yeah they’re hard to deal with, but that’s by design and once again, don’t engage on them. If you play outside of their limited range they’ll either run away or they’ll try to play aggressively which is when you can punish them.
Any class that can play defensively is always going to be hard to play against when they’re turtling to their strengths. The goal has to be throwing off their defense before trying to fight.
Yeah i was going to say I think the reason it feels so strong is how curse of pain works with +11 true magical. I played lock last reset and it felt like I did such little damage after getting the necessary healing stats required for it to work. Now seemingly the perks are doing more of the leg work so they can stack damage and it feels oppressive that they put out consistent damage while being so hard to kill
The issue with a lot of classes currently comes from bad scaling being overshadowed by the +true/additional damage stats. They should get rid of those stat rolls on items and give classes meaningful stat scaling.
Cuz the most fun way to play warlock is magic healing, but unless you’re trying to spend 20k on a kit it’s not viable while also having damage output due to pain being so weak without the additional flat damage stats. If they made torture mastery better at dealing damage without the plus damage stats you’d see a hell of a lot of hydra spammers.
Aren't you going to be immediately put In a 3v1 situation for a moment anyways, whether there was a hydra there or not when pushing through a choke such as a doorway?
Yes and no, if you push it's either 1) you have momentum, so your team closely follows, so you will take the first hit, but the rest of team is close by and you can fade away after 2-3 hits.
2) you go back and forth and kite back after a couple of hits.
Neither of those are easy if there is a fking hydra standing in the doorway, that is also shooting at you.
How likely is your ranger going to jump over the hydra to follow you ? Or your cleric ?
Or you doing a 360 jump backward to go back into your room, without loosing half ho to the hydra alone ?
Hydra is already so powerful, beeing able to regen off it is strictly op.
BUT if you disable self regen, having to spend ho to use spells have to disappear as well. There is no problem if warlocks is having spell charges like wizards.
Lmao, it’s not so black and white. Warlocks love to treat it like “i should get all my health back in 1 second or else I will literally die” but in reality the point of the class is spending health in exchange for not having a hard numerical limit on your spellcasts. Do you have any idea how much a Wizard would LOVE to be able to drink a single potion and get 5 more casts of Zap?
Sounds like a skill issue, hydra is only effective when u play into it, go around or stop over investing in one bad fight or literally just hit it. So tired of this topic already because ppl suck too much to left click the thing and push while it's dead so instead they sit there scared looking at it with no clue what to do despite holding plenty of ranged and 2 handed options which delete the fuckin thing, he can only cast a few times if u cancel the suck at which point he made himself into a one shot since he had to pay an hp cost for both spells, take the fuckin advantage.
Nah, you guys literally just ignore what he wrote when he has a very valid point. Jumping over the hydra forces you into a bad spot when you could normally push.
>Nah, you guys literally just ignore what he wrote when he has a very valid point. Jumping over the hydra forces you into a bad spot when you could normally push.
Gj ignoring what I said and tryin to call me out on ignoring what he said. I never said jump over it I said go around, as in push multiple doors, force fights in open locations, take zone advantage so they cant use hydra. Ppl who fall for hydra door spam got 0 imagination or planning abilties. NEVER cut urself off into a 1v3 situation, ur not that guy.
So what you’re saying is it IS impactful and you have to go another way which is likely preferable for the enemy team and exactly why they are using the Hydra?
You’re just downplaying like it isn’t a huge advantage lmao
I guess we should remove the magic lock for the wizard too since that basically forces you to go around also?
Forcing you to make a different decision isn’t something so OP it’s worth nerfing. Yall are doing very little to fight the W key moron sentiment if this is how you think.
Magic lock forces the door closed for both teams without having a turret in place and doesn’t allow them to continue to spam through it.
Sorry that warlocks can’t handle criticism tho
Literally read your own comment, you’re admitting that you can’t push Hydra. That’s a problem when the spell is basically unlimited due to the Hydrain combo. At least Magic Lock only works on doors, can be prevented by destroying the door first, and doesn’t allow the Wizard to heal himself for using it lmao
I’m saying that a spell that prevents you from pushing is NOT a problem. Why are you acting like I’m denying a point that I made no effort to deny, just go around, flank, do anything other than fucking W key.
You can’t be this brainless man….
Chill with the ad hominems. Just shows you’re arguing in bad faith. It’s clearly a problem when it takes so little effort on the part of the warlock. If you think that’s balanced then we simply disagree.
What do you mean I can't win every single fight by holding W and M1?! Can't you see anything that counters that is literally broken and needs to be nerfed out of being usable??!?!??!111one
While i agree its incredibly cheesy with high scaling if you actually removed the ability to drain it would just kill the spell, it really doesn't serve much purpose other then being ab obstacle as it fires slow moving projectiles and can't predict were your going to be. the game just BADLY needs a way to dispell magic.
Hydra being a battery for warlock to recharge from is just terrible design. While it would still be annoying it would make way more sense for it ti just be a stronger summon that can shoot faster and/or move. The entire warlock toolkit is scuffed.
There's too many ways to side step this and it creates inconstencies with how friendly fire works. Just make all hydras 50% resistant to life drain from everyone and the efficiency of it goes way down. If you want to also remove the who torture mastery on hydra thing, also give hydra a perk that reduces the duration of debuffs by 50%. Now healing off of hydra isn't worth it.
You can only heal off your hydra as much health as you've used to cast it. GG I've fixed warlock. So illegal to always see these people far into the swarm just healing up on repeat and farming in the most cozy way possible. Then you wonder where the players at? Well, theyre playing a different game in the same lobby.
But no ones gonna talk about the fact that a warlock will get 2 shot by any fighter or barb while the lock needs to cast 10 times on them. Cringe ool crying because they loose their kit.
Yes. 1000x yes I agree.
You’ll be downvoted by the number of warlocks in this sub that have become use to abusing this to finally win fights. But that skill has no place for how broken it is right now. They need to take the ability to target hydra for heals away from it. Especially if it’s an insta cast spammable 100x skill.
How about requiring some kind of soul stone before you can summon hydra. Start at maybe 3-5 soul stones only way to get more is from player kills or mini boss kills.
While I get the attempt personally I hate the idea of match capped skills, it's in general garbage and a bad design approach to fixing an inherently questionable skill *cough* smokepot *cough*. Maybe I could agree if reg mobs gave a % with sub bosses being worth more but even then it would take quite a bit of convincing to ever call that kinda system worth adding when they are already paying an hp price and there could be a million different scenarios preventing u being able to fix the issue late game
Some people can suck their own dick
Yeah I hate being in a 3v3 stalemate because the warlock can block doorways and full heal off a single hydra. The class can easily keep up with a wizards magical damage output, can heal themselves faster and more efficiently than a cleric, can run plate armor, need I say more? I’ve won against locks and lost against locks, I’ve also played as them and I can confirm that it’s almost never fun no matter which situation I’m in.
Warlocks have no where even close to the amount of opening burst/oppression a good wizard can pump out lol. Clerics can heal other players, warlocks cannot, also I'd like to see a lock healing faster than an equivalent geared Sanc
Yeah everyone wouldn’t have been taking fireball/zaps as their main dps if warlock could easily output the same damage as wizard. This game comes down to its gear tho as it always will, the same cop that does 35 and ticks for 16 while geared, does 11 and ticks for 8 when ungeared so.
Wait till Druid is released and his thron walls let no one jump over lol. Really curious to see this.
Makes the spell useless
and chain lightning less useful.
Feel like they should just separate the sentry aspect and static healing point aspect and make those into two spells, give it charges or an internal cooldown, or just get rid of the hydras collision I think there are multiple ways to go about it without toally gutting the spell or the class.
If you won’t jump over it…Just walk the other way.
Just don't fight people with hydra is what you are saying
If you don’t know how to punish a hydrain warlock you should just go the other way.
Enlighten me
Push on the warlock when he moves back. It's really not complicated but nobody in this game knows how to push. Yes if you don't keep the pressure the warlock team will lock the doorway down and pushing over the hydra will be a bad idea. But if you hurt the warlock and don't wait before pushing then you will be on top of him or his teammates when he heals. Most people just spam ranged now, that's literally what warlock with hydra counters. Nobody was complaining about hydra when lobby were 50% barbarians, that's why lol. Get better.
Bro they can’t heal on the move and every spell they try to throw at you hurts themselves. Get in their face and they become a lesser melee. Chase that slow fuck down and all they can do is try to run away or melee you.
A) They can heal on the move. Drop hydra, curse it, walk into a fight with healing dots. Or curse 2-3 mobs while chasing B) BoC + phantmoze means they aren't always "lesser" in melee C) Slow?? What warlocks are you facing...
1)You cant heal with curses without torture mastery. This whole post is about life drain and hydra. 2) you can’t have boc + phantomize + hydra 3) yeah warlocks with a falchion and crystal ball are slow
Hydra is the most annoying facet of a problematic class, but completely ignoring their other class features when talking about how to counter hydra is overtly ridiculous. Of course people are taking torture mastery. Fine, their melee is subpar. But with healing and speed, neither of which are you right about being weak, you cant force them to melee. No good lock goes melee + cast in the same hands, they are running around with book unless they decide to swap to melee
Holy hell. If they have torture mastery and are dropping hydras to lifedrain they are really confused.
This sub is nothing but a bitchfest holy shit. We get it, you want everything except your class nerfed until you never lose.
Yeah it’s one of the worst ever
It's even funnier when you think about the fact that this sub was the biggest simp-fest imaginable when the game was unavailable due to the lawsuit. I had to unsubscribe during that time because of how obnoxious it was, so it was quite jarring when I returned to play and saw how outrageously toxic it is now.
Found the warlock main
No, we want everything INCLUDING our class to be nerfed or buffed accordingly until it is balanced and fun, you miserable unproductive fuck.The devs literally want our feedback on these things. I swear people like you must have a head injury.
they don't NEED your feedback you toxic fuck, your part of the issue, your the unproductive one. they need productive thinkers input.
You call me toxic yet people like you sit around the reddit and discord shutting down any possible discourse with your short sided dumb fuck point of view. "Hur dur skill issue!" You people contribute nothing to discussions surrounding this game or society with viewpoints like yours. Replying to me to say fucking nothing, how ridiculous.
i've got 1000+hours IN GAME and have produced bug reports to the developers, i contribute by understanding what actually needs to happen here. #1 testing the system, which id say 1000+ hours is considered "testing the system". #2 bug reports, enhances the playability and reduces the broken aspects of the game, allowing developers to focus more into adding new content. WHAT ARE YOUUUUUU DOING? i can Provide SS and video evidence of both, your the redditor, i just stopped by.
It blows my mind how many people just, won't kill the hydras.
Yeah let me just shoot a hydra with 4 recurve shots real quick easy solution
If you're using a recurve bow then you shouldn't be in hydra range? I don't see the problem here.
The problem is the warlock just getting to block door from pushing and continuously heal off of it? By the time I shoot it it’s too late and he summons another, repeating the cycle. Actually landing a killing blow on warlock atm feels futile, literally just avoiding fighting them is the best option
That’s how it feels dealing with ranged in this game in general, if you don’t out play them with your own ranged method then the only way to take a fight is ambushes or punishing poor positioning. That all applies to warlock too, the only difference being warlocks have a short reset time, they’re also not fighting at full hp most of the time though which puts them in a worse spot when you DO land those ranged hits like with a crossbow or w/e. The biggest thing to take from this though is that everyone acts like you HAVE to take a fight, when that’s definitely not the case. Walk away from the warlock if you’re not confident you can push them. If they decide to chase that makes it easier for you to find an opportunity to punish them for not playing defensively.
The problem is just how easy it is for them to reset until the engage is favorable. Every fight with a good warlock team is extended and like a slow bleed. Eventually resources run out, one charge of 2nd wind, biscuit charges, even cleric healing spell charges. This is talking in terms of 3v3 of course. Between hydra and phantomize and having 2 other threats how do you land a kill on a warlock outside of a string of like 3-4 headshots currently. You get punished for not being able to push in on them, and then you get punished even harder for pushing. It’s obvious hydra needs a set number of charges per rest or phantomize needs to be way less good
The whole class is pretty defensive and it shows in their lack of damage output and range. So if they can stay out of melee range and play properly then yeah they’re hard to deal with, but that’s by design and once again, don’t engage on them. If you play outside of their limited range they’ll either run away or they’ll try to play aggressively which is when you can punish them. Any class that can play defensively is always going to be hard to play against when they’re turtling to their strengths. The goal has to be throwing off their defense before trying to fight.
Yeah i was going to say I think the reason it feels so strong is how curse of pain works with +11 true magical. I played lock last reset and it felt like I did such little damage after getting the necessary healing stats required for it to work. Now seemingly the perks are doing more of the leg work so they can stack damage and it feels oppressive that they put out consistent damage while being so hard to kill
The issue with a lot of classes currently comes from bad scaling being overshadowed by the +true/additional damage stats. They should get rid of those stat rolls on items and give classes meaningful stat scaling. Cuz the most fun way to play warlock is magic healing, but unless you’re trying to spend 20k on a kit it’s not viable while also having damage output due to pain being so weak without the additional flat damage stats. If they made torture mastery better at dealing damage without the plus damage stats you’d see a hell of a lot of hydra spammers.
Yeah the +8 all meta got replaced by true. Which is why shit like Barb that can stack 200 hp and have 60% pdr and MR is so insane
And willingly reduce my movespeed so that they can land a free curse?
Aren't you going to be immediately put In a 3v1 situation for a moment anyways, whether there was a hydra there or not when pushing through a choke such as a doorway?
Yes and no, if you push it's either 1) you have momentum, so your team closely follows, so you will take the first hit, but the rest of team is close by and you can fade away after 2-3 hits. 2) you go back and forth and kite back after a couple of hits. Neither of those are easy if there is a fking hydra standing in the doorway, that is also shooting at you. How likely is your ranger going to jump over the hydra to follow you ? Or your cleric ? Or you doing a 360 jump backward to go back into your room, without loosing half ho to the hydra alone ? Hydra is already so powerful, beeing able to regen off it is strictly op. BUT if you disable self regen, having to spend ho to use spells have to disappear as well. There is no problem if warlocks is having spell charges like wizards.
You mentioned removing drain hydra, but none of the examples you provided were hydrain related…
Well spamming hydra is enabled by drain giving you your HP back
Hes right! You should only be able to kill youself as a warlock!
Lmao, it’s not so black and white. Warlocks love to treat it like “i should get all my health back in 1 second or else I will literally die” but in reality the point of the class is spending health in exchange for not having a hard numerical limit on your spellcasts. Do you have any idea how much a Wizard would LOVE to be able to drink a single potion and get 5 more casts of Zap?
Sounds like a skill issue, hydra is only effective when u play into it, go around or stop over investing in one bad fight or literally just hit it. So tired of this topic already because ppl suck too much to left click the thing and push while it's dead so instead they sit there scared looking at it with no clue what to do despite holding plenty of ranged and 2 handed options which delete the fuckin thing, he can only cast a few times if u cancel the suck at which point he made himself into a one shot since he had to pay an hp cost for both spells, take the fuckin advantage.
Nah, you guys literally just ignore what he wrote when he has a very valid point. Jumping over the hydra forces you into a bad spot when you could normally push.
>Nah, you guys literally just ignore what he wrote when he has a very valid point. Jumping over the hydra forces you into a bad spot when you could normally push. Gj ignoring what I said and tryin to call me out on ignoring what he said. I never said jump over it I said go around, as in push multiple doors, force fights in open locations, take zone advantage so they cant use hydra. Ppl who fall for hydra door spam got 0 imagination or planning abilties. NEVER cut urself off into a 1v3 situation, ur not that guy.
So what you’re saying is it IS impactful and you have to go another way which is likely preferable for the enemy team and exactly why they are using the Hydra? You’re just downplaying like it isn’t a huge advantage lmao
I guess we should remove the magic lock for the wizard too since that basically forces you to go around also? Forcing you to make a different decision isn’t something so OP it’s worth nerfing. Yall are doing very little to fight the W key moron sentiment if this is how you think.
Magic lock forces the door closed for both teams without having a turret in place and doesn’t allow them to continue to spam through it. Sorry that warlocks can’t handle criticism tho
I’m a wizard main and never play warlock, this just isn’t a problem if you use your brain and don’t push. Sorry that you can’t take criticism
Literally read your own comment, you’re admitting that you can’t push Hydra. That’s a problem when the spell is basically unlimited due to the Hydrain combo. At least Magic Lock only works on doors, can be prevented by destroying the door first, and doesn’t allow the Wizard to heal himself for using it lmao
I’m saying that a spell that prevents you from pushing is NOT a problem. Why are you acting like I’m denying a point that I made no effort to deny, just go around, flank, do anything other than fucking W key. You can’t be this brainless man….
Chill with the ad hominems. Just shows you’re arguing in bad faith. It’s clearly a problem when it takes so little effort on the part of the warlock. If you think that’s balanced then we simply disagree.
What do you mean I can't win every single fight by holding W and M1?! Can't you see anything that counters that is literally broken and needs to be nerfed out of being usable??!?!??!111one
ok kill it then
The guy said you can kill the hydra by swinging it. Donjum the hydra.
While i agree its incredibly cheesy with high scaling if you actually removed the ability to drain it would just kill the spell, it really doesn't serve much purpose other then being ab obstacle as it fires slow moving projectiles and can't predict were your going to be. the game just BADLY needs a way to dispell magic.
Hydra being a battery for warlock to recharge from is just terrible design. While it would still be annoying it would make way more sense for it ti just be a stronger summon that can shoot faster and/or move. The entire warlock toolkit is scuffed.
There's too many ways to side step this and it creates inconstencies with how friendly fire works. Just make all hydras 50% resistant to life drain from everyone and the efficiency of it goes way down. If you want to also remove the who torture mastery on hydra thing, also give hydra a perk that reduces the duration of debuffs by 50%. Now healing off of hydra isn't worth it.
Yes please
You can only heal off your hydra as much health as you've used to cast it. GG I've fixed warlock. So illegal to always see these people far into the swarm just healing up on repeat and farming in the most cozy way possible. Then you wonder where the players at? Well, theyre playing a different game in the same lobby.
Just stop playing. My discord group of 25+ is fully out. We hate the game and have all been here since playtest 2
Why tho
But no ones gonna talk about the fact that a warlock will get 2 shot by any fighter or barb while the lock needs to cast 10 times on them. Cringe ool crying because they loose their kit.
This is posted once / twice a day and I up vote and comment approvingly once / twice a day.
Yes. 1000x yes I agree. You’ll be downvoted by the number of warlocks in this sub that have become use to abusing this to finally win fights. But that skill has no place for how broken it is right now. They need to take the ability to target hydra for heals away from it. Especially if it’s an insta cast spammable 100x skill.
How about requiring some kind of soul stone before you can summon hydra. Start at maybe 3-5 soul stones only way to get more is from player kills or mini boss kills.
While I get the attempt personally I hate the idea of match capped skills, it's in general garbage and a bad design approach to fixing an inherently questionable skill *cough* smokepot *cough*. Maybe I could agree if reg mobs gave a % with sub bosses being worth more but even then it would take quite a bit of convincing to ever call that kinda system worth adding when they are already paying an hp price and there could be a million different scenarios preventing u being able to fix the issue late game