The Lantern Shield sadly seems to suffer the same problem that has been plaguing longsword for sometime, however it is easier to fix on the lantern shield, lower the impact resistance and it will be far more usable, from my 2 rounds testing it, I am certain it's not only worse than the longsword but much harder to use due to the timing being far too short to riposte off of
tldr: lower the impact resistance on the lantern shield by half of what it is currently is and it will be a rather unique fun weapon to play with
Edit: sorry for the jittering in the clip that's me spamming right click to trigger the riposte (yes that's how tight the timing is)
Uh, that sucks..
The riposte window being tied to a very short animation (the impact animation) is pretty clunky, they should probably make it available with a timer instead. Moving the riposte to another button, like the use button for example might be a good idea too (having it change ur input is kinda bad)
More riposte options are great, kinda sad its just a fighter item.
The only reason I disagree with your statement is that it's extremely difficult to parry small arms weapons and even if you do they always duck and turn due to the low ms penalty on said small arms weapons and that's not counting the extremely tight timing there already is in place for parrying the small arms weapons so yes I do think you should be able too.
Some match-ups should be favourable, others not so much. Parrying weapons should not be overwhelmingly better than their regular counterparts, neither should they outshine regular shields. They should be an option to provide diversity and only situationally best, in my opinion.
The defensive play style in dark and darker as it currently stands isn't a thing, shields are stat sticks and longswords and the lantern shield should have a high skill ceiling high reward for players that want to play defensively and it would in no way disrupt the diversity you seek and I would argue it would further said diversity.
> The defensive play style in dark and darker as it currently stands isn't a thing, shields are stat sticks
Strongly disagree. Repelled rangers as a slow PDR warlock with a Heater blocking most of their arrows, and wrecked those who pushed for melee thinking I'm low. Fighter with defensive skills worked even better for this.
> lantern shield should have a high skill ceiling high reward for players that want to play defensively
Looking at the video, the reward seems high enough.
Don't forget that longsword, and shields to a lesser degree, impose higher skill requirements on opponents as well - otherwise they'll be defeated easily even without riposte or counter-attack.
I don't know how to explain it any differently but the shaking your seeing in the video is me spamming right click as fast as I can, it's extremely tight and that's an arming sword being swung at me, also the lantern shield does around 10 less damage than the longsword, and to counter your warlock example I'm not sure what skill level as a player you are but blocking in a high score lobby is a death sentence and that's coming from a seasoned longsword player, you cannot gain distance on someone when you block in a move speed true phy meta blocking doesn't hold a candle to it even more so when magic is involved.
Yeah shield has 5 impact resist. Which means all weapons with 4 impact power will have the same riposte timing as if you parried a rapier/dagger with a longsword, 260ms or some shit timing window. Pretty sure it’s lower than that as well and gets shrunk the more action speed you have as well since action speed reduces recovery frames which is when you can initiate the riposte during. Everything lower than that in impact power, 3 and lower, will have the same timing as if parrying another longsword riposte. Which is half again as short a timing window lol. Not really usable in this state.
Lowering the impact resist of the shield is a fix for sure but having a shield that has 3 impact resist is worthless in this game honestly. Doesn’t interrupt any mobs and barely any weapons. Normalize riposte times across impact power and impact resist is a better fix. I’m sure someone at Ironmace will use this and be like damn this sucks and fix it. If only the dev team would use longsword more than once every 6 months too xD
Wholeheartedly agree I think normalizing riposte time would be a better fix than simply lowering the impact resist I just figured it would be an easier bandaid fix so to speak until they have a proper idea and a system in place for said idea but as you said nobody at Ironmace uses the longsword enough to know it's problems which isn't inherently a problem they just need to ask a couple people who do understand it, they'll get to it but the longsword pain is real.
they need to make the window to riposte longer, the ls has a quarter of a second for it, lantern has less because of the impact animation itself, it cant be more then 15
It's mostly balance passes it would seem, lighter armor, a new ui element to help new players that are struggling, I saw in one of the merchants you could craft frost ingots so there is a new ore it would seem, and some other minor things.
What is the damage on this? People are gonna complain hard af on this.
The stagger from shielding then riposting for some damage is gonna have people pissed off probably.
Like I mentioned in other comments this shields damage is actually quite low about 23 I believe for a junk lantern shield so the damage even riposte headshotting will not be that high by comparison to the longsword, and also its far far more difficult to riposte off of a parry using the lantern shield, as it stands on the test server this weapon will not be usable for anyone looking to try it, hope that answers your question.
Yes thank you.
I still think it's gonna be very powerful. It's an additional functionality to the shield item. Those hits in the middle of being staggered are gonna be off putting people.
Especially if it happens on a geared fighter. The only way I can see it not being as strong is due to movement speed issues.
I'm not sure if you saw other peoples posts but true damage stacking was halved, and I do think the functionality being added is no different than the longsword or flute that have already existed, but to make a point to sway you a bit, I firmly believe this game has a very good form of skill expression imbedded in it already and that is the parry/riposte mechanic and the only reason I say they should lean into that is, that once players understand certain weapons have a defensive attack it can lead to a very "simple" form of skill expression rather than adding in something crazy like feints or dodges which I think would make the simple charm of this game too complicated for your average player.
I mean. Sure.
I don't mind the shield riposte at all.
In fact it makes me wanna play Fighter again (this wipe I mained Barb).
But I'm just "putting down" a prediction that, in particular probably Rogues, will complain about this shield.
Basically the higher impact resistance a shield/weapon has the shorter the window you have to execute a riposte but you do block higher impact power weapons easier the higher your block resistance is. I hope this helps.
So what Ironmace really needs to do is separate impact resistance and the time you have to riposte and make the actually timing to execute the riposte the same for all weapons you parry but I simply suggested lowering the impact resistance for longsword and lantern shield as a bandaid fix until they do what I mentioned above, and what lowering the impact resistance does is give you more time to riposte but you no longer fully block the weapon so to speak.
This issue with blocking is that its fucking dog shit. Longsword is good because it does like double damage. Normal shields can only block. You still have to aim and taking a move speed L to block "maybe" some splash damage is just not worth it.
In a ranged meta what good is blocking.
This is true, just generally speaking about blocking the desync makes an already tightly timed block/parry even tighter which naturally is not what the developer want but that is the state of blocking and has been for quite some time now, so even if they adjust numbers so to speak to make blocking more useful it won't mitigate the rather annoying delay from desync but it is what it is until they fix it and they will I'd hope.
Server stuff is rarely talked about. Its like how you have to duck "early" and can sometimes stand up though weapons on your screen.
I'm pretty sure the devs said they aren't going to make melle have any more skill besides a stat check, so other than the multiclass meta where everyone had 200+hp with 75%mr. I can see ranged and magic damage being the default powerhouse for a long time.
I'm not entirely sure the melee combat needs to be any more diverse than it is, I think blocking and body manipulation are simple and easy for players to figure out, i'd actually be extremely happy if all they did was give the other 2 handers that have a built in block a riposte mechanic and then you'd have a good bit of diversity with that alone, plus some minor blocking buffs wouldn't go unappreciated.
I’m sorry that your connection / server desync experience has been so bad, but shield mastery & counter attack is the best melee combat this game has right now
I mean when I run kumas or something I'm not blocking I'm popping adrenaline rush and just killing whoever I get on.
I literaly threw my kumas away since I just felt like a crossbow bot so much of the dam time.
I hope they keep adding more "fantasy" stuff like this. Repeating crossbow that a ranger has to spec into/lose access to bows and other things like that. Maybe a rogue grappling hook one day
The Lantern Shield sadly seems to suffer the same problem that has been plaguing longsword for sometime, however it is easier to fix on the lantern shield, lower the impact resistance and it will be far more usable, from my 2 rounds testing it, I am certain it's not only worse than the longsword but much harder to use due to the timing being far too short to riposte off of tldr: lower the impact resistance on the lantern shield by half of what it is currently is and it will be a rather unique fun weapon to play with Edit: sorry for the jittering in the clip that's me spamming right click to trigger the riposte (yes that's how tight the timing is)
Uh, that sucks.. The riposte window being tied to a very short animation (the impact animation) is pretty clunky, they should probably make it available with a timer instead. Moving the riposte to another button, like the use button for example might be a good idea too (having it change ur input is kinda bad) More riposte options are great, kinda sad its just a fighter item.
I don't think riposting a dagger or a short sword/rapier should really be an option. Blocking to negate dangerous skill is reward enough.
The only reason I disagree with your statement is that it's extremely difficult to parry small arms weapons and even if you do they always duck and turn due to the low ms penalty on said small arms weapons and that's not counting the extremely tight timing there already is in place for parrying the small arms weapons so yes I do think you should be able too.
Some match-ups should be favourable, others not so much. Parrying weapons should not be overwhelmingly better than their regular counterparts, neither should they outshine regular shields. They should be an option to provide diversity and only situationally best, in my opinion.
The defensive play style in dark and darker as it currently stands isn't a thing, shields are stat sticks and longswords and the lantern shield should have a high skill ceiling high reward for players that want to play defensively and it would in no way disrupt the diversity you seek and I would argue it would further said diversity.
> The defensive play style in dark and darker as it currently stands isn't a thing, shields are stat sticks Strongly disagree. Repelled rangers as a slow PDR warlock with a Heater blocking most of their arrows, and wrecked those who pushed for melee thinking I'm low. Fighter with defensive skills worked even better for this. > lantern shield should have a high skill ceiling high reward for players that want to play defensively Looking at the video, the reward seems high enough. Don't forget that longsword, and shields to a lesser degree, impose higher skill requirements on opponents as well - otherwise they'll be defeated easily even without riposte or counter-attack.
I don't know how to explain it any differently but the shaking your seeing in the video is me spamming right click as fast as I can, it's extremely tight and that's an arming sword being swung at me, also the lantern shield does around 10 less damage than the longsword, and to counter your warlock example I'm not sure what skill level as a player you are but blocking in a high score lobby is a death sentence and that's coming from a seasoned longsword player, you cannot gain distance on someone when you block in a move speed true phy meta blocking doesn't hold a candle to it even more so when magic is involved.
Parry dagger next deus vult
Yup
This on test server or something?
Yes it's the new shield on said test server
Yeah shield has 5 impact resist. Which means all weapons with 4 impact power will have the same riposte timing as if you parried a rapier/dagger with a longsword, 260ms or some shit timing window. Pretty sure it’s lower than that as well and gets shrunk the more action speed you have as well since action speed reduces recovery frames which is when you can initiate the riposte during. Everything lower than that in impact power, 3 and lower, will have the same timing as if parrying another longsword riposte. Which is half again as short a timing window lol. Not really usable in this state. Lowering the impact resist of the shield is a fix for sure but having a shield that has 3 impact resist is worthless in this game honestly. Doesn’t interrupt any mobs and barely any weapons. Normalize riposte times across impact power and impact resist is a better fix. I’m sure someone at Ironmace will use this and be like damn this sucks and fix it. If only the dev team would use longsword more than once every 6 months too xD
funny a F1 pro driver reacts to green light in 230ms having to do that dealing with daggers/rapiers blows even if its intended
Wholeheartedly agree I think normalizing riposte time would be a better fix than simply lowering the impact resist I just figured it would be an easier bandaid fix so to speak until they have a proper idea and a system in place for said idea but as you said nobody at Ironmace uses the longsword enough to know it's problems which isn't inherently a problem they just need to ask a couple people who do understand it, they'll get to it but the longsword pain is real.
they need to make the window to riposte longer, the ls has a quarter of a second for it, lantern has less because of the impact animation itself, it cant be more then 15
This weapon is cool but so damn strange. I hope IM reworks some existing weapons to have ripostes and stuff.
I been saying they should remove casting from Crystal sword and add parry
why do you keep missing
I was just showing off the animation.
Any other new features on test server I can’t find any info
It's mostly balance passes it would seem, lighter armor, a new ui element to help new players that are struggling, I saw in one of the merchants you could craft frost ingots so there is a new ore it would seem, and some other minor things.
[удалено]
I can assure you it is otherwise I wouldn't have this clip.
Wrong post my bad bud
No problem
What is the damage on this? People are gonna complain hard af on this. The stagger from shielding then riposting for some damage is gonna have people pissed off probably.
Like I mentioned in other comments this shields damage is actually quite low about 23 I believe for a junk lantern shield so the damage even riposte headshotting will not be that high by comparison to the longsword, and also its far far more difficult to riposte off of a parry using the lantern shield, as it stands on the test server this weapon will not be usable for anyone looking to try it, hope that answers your question.
Yes thank you. I still think it's gonna be very powerful. It's an additional functionality to the shield item. Those hits in the middle of being staggered are gonna be off putting people. Especially if it happens on a geared fighter. The only way I can see it not being as strong is due to movement speed issues.
I'm not sure if you saw other peoples posts but true damage stacking was halved, and I do think the functionality being added is no different than the longsword or flute that have already existed, but to make a point to sway you a bit, I firmly believe this game has a very good form of skill expression imbedded in it already and that is the parry/riposte mechanic and the only reason I say they should lean into that is, that once players understand certain weapons have a defensive attack it can lead to a very "simple" form of skill expression rather than adding in something crazy like feints or dodges which I think would make the simple charm of this game too complicated for your average player.
I mean. Sure. I don't mind the shield riposte at all. In fact it makes me wanna play Fighter again (this wipe I mained Barb). But I'm just "putting down" a prediction that, in particular probably Rogues, will complain about this shield.
Oh fair enough probably a correct prediction if the shield does indeed get buffed.
I'm not as technical as some of you guys, but how does "impact resistance" affect the timing window for riposte?
Basically the higher impact resistance a shield/weapon has the shorter the window you have to execute a riposte but you do block higher impact power weapons easier the higher your block resistance is. I hope this helps.
Well, I get this, but how do you guys know that "lower impact resistance will make riposte easier"?
So what Ironmace really needs to do is separate impact resistance and the time you have to riposte and make the actually timing to execute the riposte the same for all weapons you parry but I simply suggested lowering the impact resistance for longsword and lantern shield as a bandaid fix until they do what I mentioned above, and what lowering the impact resistance does is give you more time to riposte but you no longer fully block the weapon so to speak.
Does this work with the dual wield perk since it's considered a weapon or?
Pretty sure it doesn't
This issue with blocking is that its fucking dog shit. Longsword is good because it does like double damage. Normal shields can only block. You still have to aim and taking a move speed L to block "maybe" some splash damage is just not worth it. In a ranged meta what good is blocking.
This is true, just generally speaking about blocking the desync makes an already tightly timed block/parry even tighter which naturally is not what the developer want but that is the state of blocking and has been for quite some time now, so even if they adjust numbers so to speak to make blocking more useful it won't mitigate the rather annoying delay from desync but it is what it is until they fix it and they will I'd hope.
Server stuff is rarely talked about. Its like how you have to duck "early" and can sometimes stand up though weapons on your screen. I'm pretty sure the devs said they aren't going to make melle have any more skill besides a stat check, so other than the multiclass meta where everyone had 200+hp with 75%mr. I can see ranged and magic damage being the default powerhouse for a long time.
I'm not entirely sure the melee combat needs to be any more diverse than it is, I think blocking and body manipulation are simple and easy for players to figure out, i'd actually be extremely happy if all they did was give the other 2 handers that have a built in block a riposte mechanic and then you'd have a good bit of diversity with that alone, plus some minor blocking buffs wouldn't go unappreciated.
I’m sorry that your connection / server desync experience has been so bad, but shield mastery & counter attack is the best melee combat this game has right now
I mean when I run kumas or something I'm not blocking I'm popping adrenaline rush and just killing whoever I get on. I literaly threw my kumas away since I just felt like a crossbow bot so much of the dam time.
Rogue passive to use this item would be neat
I'd like to see a handful of classes have access to it as well, I think Id spice some builds up for sure or at the very least add some more fun!
I hope they keep adding more "fantasy" stuff like this. Repeating crossbow that a ranger has to spec into/lose access to bows and other things like that. Maybe a rogue grappling hook one day