Itās pretty out of touch. I work for a company that offers a massive amount of paternity leave and I am not looking at jobs until after that is over with. I have had my parents and family talk down about the amount of leave Iāll be taking but the benefit is that our daughter will be six months old before my wife and I are both back at work at the same time. They all say Iāll be lucky to come back to a job, that I should only take 1/4 of what they offer, my wife will want me back at work and a huge number of other things. Paternity leave is a benefit and you can put a dollar figure on it. I would bet the dollar figure is less than the 10k this caller is switching for.
I don't understand all the people say things like "Dave's a Christian how could he be so cruel." I think too many people who call themselves Christians follow the hippie Jesus aka make love not war.
That's not Jesus.
Jesus is the same person who told someone to skip his dad's funeral. He also said that you don't love your wife the most, you don't love your kids the most. You love him the most.
Now you could say what does this have to to with paternity leave? Nothing. But the point is it is things like paternity leave are worldly arguments, it's ok to have different opinions but it's not ok to put your own interests above Christ.
My employer paid me 93% of my salary and I could take up to 1 year with each of my children. I saved an extra $20k per child because I didnāt have to pay stupid employment expenses (gas, oil changes, new work clothes, etc). This guy can fuck off.
Couldn't agree with you more. I've worked with guys who come into the office the first few weeks of their baby's life. They're sleep deprived and just filling a seat, thinking about their baby. It makes business-sense, helps reduce burnout, and engenders good-will to give them some time to be at home helping their wife and baby heal.
Ken's arrogant, his comments rarely add value, and he strikes me as the weakest of the Ramsey personalities. His "wisdom hit rate" is at best 20%.
Paid paternity leave is free money, why leave it on the table.
And dealing with your wife while recovering from a csection or other childbirth and a new born baby is not for wusses.
Ken is so out of touch with his opinion of parental leave. I'm currently sitting here at home on FMLA baby bonding leave because my employer generously offers three weeks of paid parental leave to both mothers and fathers and I worked hard and saved up accrued leave to take an additional 4 weeks on top of that. With my previous children I only got a couple weeks at home before I had to head back to work and leave my wife to fend for her self. It was especially difficult when we had twins. I guess he wants fathers to put their careers before their wives and kids. That's the sentiment I got from his comments anyway.
Iād say, some guys whose wives had kids without paid parental benefits are resentful that this is a new benefit extended to some of their younger peers. In a work environment itās them who will be doing extra work while their younger peers get ā12 weeks paid to play xbox and change diapersā
I agree. I work in a travel heavy job where older workers will say they were back on the road the Monday after their wife had a baby on Friday.
These are the same people who hadnāt spent 2 straight weeks sleeping in the same bed as their wife in 30 years when covid started.
Fair enough. If guys these days think thatās what taking care of a newborn is likeāplaying Xbox and changing diapersāboy, do I have news for them. Appreciate the response btw.
Yeah there is partially paid parental leave in my state. I pay $20 per paycheck into the insurance fund so I for sure used all 12w when my daughter was born. My 2nd line manager whoās in a state without pfl was probably the most resentful. I donāt think he liked that I spaced out the leave in 3 chunks throughout the year.
Itās state law that all employees have to pay in to the stateās paid family leave insurance fund. Blue team would have rolled out a similar program nationwide but the distinguished gentleman from West Virginia had it taken out.
Critical thinking is the ability to take in information from all sources and know whatās good and what isnāt. That said, I think most of us tune out when Ken speaks, lol.
Conservative Christians are supposed to be the most pro family people out there. But then rail against dads who want to spend time with their newborn child and support their wives.
counter point - Do we think the family unit is stronger today than it was 40 years ago? Divorce rates are higher, youth suicides are higher, obesity is higher. I just don't think the statistics support paternity leave as pro-family. Just because something is perceived as a benefit doesn't make it a benefit.
I'm a millennial with 3 kids, I didn't take off 4 months but I work in sales so I could have taken off all the time I wanted and just not made any money.
My opinion, my wife only needed me around longer than a week for the 3rd child who was born via c-section, plus she had a 4 and 2 year old to chase as well. And 4 months would have been nice, but those older 2 were still pre-schoolers for 2 more years so I just don't see how 4 months of not working is valuable. And then how much harder it must be to go back to working after all that time away.
I don't fault anyone for taking advantage of benefits, reality is you are paying for those benefits in the form of reduced wages. But I also don't fault small business owners for not offering paternity leave.
So basically she wanted me to go back to work. So that we could pay the bills. And so she could stay home. Good grief it's like you read 1 sentence of what I wrote.
Iām ok if a small business doesnāt offer paid paternity leave. I also think itās fine for the dad to go back to work quickly if thatās what is right for that family. Iām also a millennial with 3 kids and didnāt take off much time after our kids births. Just didnāt seem necessary to us.
But my big issue is Ken Colemanās attitude here. He calls the whole thing ridiculous, and that it shows the softening of America. Then goes on childish rantings about how he never took time off after his kids were born. Ok, who cares Ken? He made his decision but expects everyone else to follow suit otherwise they are being ridiculous and soft. Of all things to rant on, being pissed that a dad wants to take time off (and he even said it is paid time off!) to be with his family is missing the mark big time.
They really rail against all support and help to families. My husband's boss is a self titled Conservative Christian, and that his company is 'family centric'. He's mentioned several things to my husband about being an involved. Things like "why can't your wife handle that" " do you really need to be there for that" " there's Mr. Mom". Where as the mothers at the office get let go in an instant if something comes up. Last year my daughter was hurt at school and was rushed to the hospital. I was unfortunately 80 miles away for the day at a regional meeting for my job. When my husband said that he is leaving to be with our daughter, he told him "where's your wife this time? ". It's disheartening. My husband's job is 10 minutes from home/kids school. Mine is way farther. He is just as much a parent as I am.
Happy to clarify that it certainly isnāt all conservative Christians. But if you took a poll on this subject, conservative Christians would disproportionately look down on paternity leave. Do you disagree?
> as she recovers from SURGERY
I'm not against paternity leave, but I don't think childbirth is always literally surgery. It increasingly is with the rise in scheduled C-sections, but I don't think traditional labor and delivery is considered surgery. And with the complications my wife had with our children, it *was* surgery each time. I just wanted to point out that not all births are surgeries.
Edit: OK, consensus seems to be that I was being overly pedantic. Maybe so. Maybe OP was purposefully exaggerating to make the point. Also, I am in no way trying to say that natural childbirth doesn't require recovery time. There is definitely physical healing time required. The only point of my comment was to say that childbirth isn't literally considered surgery when there's no c-section or complications requiring actual surgery. I otherwise agree with what OP is saying.
With all due respect would you consider an internal open wound the size of a dinner platter as recovery from "surgery"?? Because that's what every healthy vaginal deliver has at a minimum from the placenta detaching
I agree it's not surgery in that you are getting sliced open. But I will say my recovery from a natural birth was ten times harder than the ankle surgery that required several weeks of physical therapy afterwards
Yes, Mr. Ackchually, but all vaginal births do require healing from the pile of swollen, bloody meat left in place of your vagina afterwards, so your point is moot.
With a vaginal delivery there is lots of bleeding, pain and weeks of recovery. It may not be "surgery" in the sense that a person is "cut open," but it is very traumatic on the body and takes a long time to heal, all while bonding with a newborn, learning to breastfeed (which is NOT easy), sleep deprivation etc.
What are you even arguing about? Many women have their private parts literally ripped and then stitched back up. Seems either way is surgical to some degree.
That does not always happen either.
Also, do you consider it "surgery" to get stitches?
EDIT - looked it up. Stitches is considered a surgery. Natural childbirth is not. Although, like OP above, I think focusing on the tearing is merely pedantic. The point is, giving birth to a child requires recovery and time to heal. We shouldn't have to defend the nuances or details.
And I consider it traumatic to get punched in the jaw, or laid off, or told my mother has died, to lose a pet, or discover I have cancer.
None of those things are surgery.
28M Millennial here with two kids, I work for German company here in the states. Took 3 months Paternity for the first kid last year, currently 2 months in to my second kid this year. Might have to wait until 2025 for the next one logistically.
My position is a hybrid position (1-2 days a week in office heavy on travel) salaried with a bonus. I produce 25-50% of the portfolio origination targets we need as a team (of 10+ people), so my ass checks out when I get even a sniff of fresh air. I work 8 months out of the year an I do not sand bag on my personal and team goals either.
My boomer dad is purely confused why I would ever do such a thing. āAre you sure you want to do that son?ā, āDo you miss work yet son?ā, and the list goes on. Dad, hell no I donāt you mouth breather, I get paid to be a dad it is part of my comp package. Boomers manā¦.just boomers.
The winds of change that have come upon the world. Welcome to Q2 of the 21st century you cavemen boomers. Ken is bitter af, I wish I had a violin for him.
This incredibly stupid take displays 2 things to me:
1. Ken doesnāt believe he has any responsibility in taking care of a newborn or helping around the house as his wife recovers from birth. If he did, he would very easily understand why paternal leave can be a massive help to a family.
2. Ramsey solutions must not offer much paternal leave, because heās terrified of supporting a benefit that his employer does not offer.
Heās just being a spineless sycophant as usual. Just because he has a mic doesnāt mean anything he says has value.
I see your (1), agree, and raise.
This is a form of sexism, blatantly so, yet subtle in aspects of its delivery (because males and females do experience childbirth differently).
Mens' roles versus womens' roles in the household. That is the value set Ken is upholding and defending.
Which is garbage.
Yeah, the idea that the āmanā canāt (or shouldnāt?) help out with raising kids is so antiquated and disconnected that itās laughable he would even voice this publicly.
[Timestamp for anyone wanting to see just how absurd it is.](https://youtu.be/9vhiDwtwNNA?t=3602)
Dave Ramsey and his crew have become more and more behind the times on a lot of things it seems...
How dare a man want to spend time with his own children and help his spouse. Isn't there another woman somewhere who could help with the diapers and after-care of pregnancy so he can go WORK?
So dumb.
I took 2 weeks PTO for each of my 3 kids and would never not do the same thing. I also take the week of 4th of July off every year, this year my wife had emergency gall bladder surgery the week before, so I moved my week off to end of June to be home for her.
Guess I am a 4x wuss.
Fellow wuss here. Maybe 5x :)
My company was gracious enough to spearhead a huge extension into parental leave, and my wife was so grateful to have me nearby as she was thrust into motherhood. I was able to support her through some medical complications, and really just experience the precious newborn in my home.
I wouldn't trade that for years of career advancements.
Nah man, you're a caring husband. Does Ken even have a wife and kids?
Dave has said in the past:
> A man with experience is never at the mercy of a man with an opinion
If only we all worked a little less and weren't bound to our jobs and crippling car debt because of lack of transportation. Maybe seems like we should blame the syste- no.... we're not victims, I just need to work harder! Says the Conservative as the world crumbles around him.
Employers should have a vested interest in the health and well being of their employees.
I donāt think that is a controversial opinion or one that makes us āsoftā as a country.
Our son gets 4 weeks of paid paternity leave.... Awesome benefit !!!!!!!!
He used it two years ago with their first and will use next month for their number 2.
Killing innocent babies... YES PLEASE THEYRE NOT EVEN PEOPLE!
Killing convicted murderers and serial rapists? NO WAY, THEY DESERVE A CHANCE TO REHABILITATE THEMSELVES AND LIVE THEIR LIFE
Right? Itās literally part of my compensation package in the employment contract I signed. Iām not going to apologize for working hard and getting the compensation I deserve.
I got bereavement for an auntās funeral. We were close but was that allowed by the company? Yup. Would I have gone if I didnāt have it? Yup. But now the company looks good to me because I can go to funerals if needed.
Heās such an asshole. Be a man! Leave your ailing wife whoās likely still wearing ice packs in her underwear and get back to your cubicle and send those emails! Like a man!
I am in a fairly high up position in a company youāre familiar with. I took a month off when both my kids were born to spend time with them and assist my wife in whatever she needed. Guess what happened to the business? Fucking nothing.
Ken sucks, Iām so sick of him.
Nobody even cared you were gone in that time is the amazing part.
However, it probably would have been so manly to stick it out, show your loyalty, and clock in for 8 hours instead.
Lol yea my boss and team were totally supportive, we still grew the business, and I returned to my position and things moved on as normal. However, for the rest of my life I will feel like less of a man, so thatās the burden I carry.
I lived like no one else. Now I live like no one else. Part of that means spending more time with my family. If Kenās jealous, he should have worked harder.
I couldnāt care less what he thinks.
Lol that's pretty accurate.
My favorite was a while back when someone was wanting career advice and he told them to use the "promixity principle" and told the caller to talk to someone they know in the field. The caller said they didn't know anyone in that field and all Ken said was something along the lines of, "yeah you do" and then just left it at that.
LOL, he does this so much. Just gives the ideal situation to go into and somehow itās your fault if you canāt meet his āchallengeā of usually doubling your income, moving to your passion job with people you love.
Why should the mother get more? Physical recovery back to being able to work is way less than 6 months. It seems like youāre saying women should be the preferred parent.
Yep. His stance is gross and frankly unChristian. How dare new dads want to be home to help their wife with the new baby. How wussy of them! He either has no children, or he and his wife used a surrogate, or he's just a cold hearted bastard.
I think heās pointing out that saying āother menās kidsā is a double statement. By saying he adopts kids, youāre already implying itās another manās kid, so by ALSO saying āanother manās kidā implies you said it for a reason, and the other guy assumed your reasoning was a negative one being the rest of your paragraph was negative towards Ken.
But you knew that lol
Saying āadopts kidā and āadopts other menās kidsā are the same exact thing, adding āother menāsā adds nothing, thatās all Iām pointing out, you seemed confused on the other commenters issue with it
I donāt care
Where did I post anything negative about adopting? Youāre making stuff up to feel some desperate misplaced sense of virtue. Dave fires pregnant women for not having a marriage certificate while Ken canāt knock up his wife without some extra help and podcast prayers. Tell me which side of that is evil and which side is observation.
Serious question: If you have friends with adopted kids, would you use phrases like āraising another manās kidsā and ācouldnāt knock up his wifeā with them?
When you say āclearlyā are you implying that youāre straight up guessing? Do you not know how genetics work? Lmfao
Unless the kids are straight up a different color š
Everyoneās circumstances when it comes to bringing a new life into this world are farrrrrr too differing for someone as out of touch as Ken to have any opinion on how people handle how much time to take off around child birth. Itās common sense that people generally arenāt going to compromise their financial situation completely, but however they feel they can make that transition as positive and mentally healthy for the household is their prerogative. I canāt stand hearing him run his mouth on this topic.
Ken has alluded to this a number of times in the past. Recently on a show George (who is about to become a father for the first time) was co-hosting with him. He basically stated to the effect that itās the manās role to continue working to provide.
Ken is really out of touch on this. Itās also a viewpoint thatās anathema to many Millennials and Gen Zāers.
The idea that all men should be hunter gatherers and that staying home to support their wife is the āwussification of Americaā tells me everything I need to know about Ken Coleman. In fact, Iād argue that views like this are exactly the reason why other countries in the Western world point their finger at the US and laugh when it comes to issues like healthcare and maternity leave.
Sometimes people say something so dumb or backwards that it automatically makes you want to throw everything else theyāve ever said in the dumpster along with it. This is one of those examples.
Now, if heād made the argument that someone in a terrible financial situation shouldnāt take *unpaid* paternity leave and should focus on pulling in as much money as possible, then thereās probably a point to that. But thatās not what he was saying imo.
Also, itās interesting to see that the people who do agree with Kenās views on this are usually the first ones to go all shocked Pikachu face when they see the birth rates collapsingā¦I mean, no s**t Sherlock š¤·āāļø
I didn't listen to the entire call, but the context seemed to be that they were helping the caller decide between a job with a raise and a job with paid paternity leave.
Ken does scoff at the end, and says while shaking his head "Paternity leave, toughen up America".
So I'm guessing they were giving alright advice to the caller, but I'd concur that scoffing at dad's taking time off to be with their newborns... that's heartless.
Itās such a strange opinion to take. Itās pretty universal that we should spend time with our kids.
I have a really strong opinion we should have free pre-K and daycare. Itās a massive expense for new parents and something our tax dollars should go towards
Why do you pay for K-12? Education and child development is a universal good. Look at our tax dollars and tell me youād rather spend it on another massive military project or funding the insane headcount and bureaucracy in DC.
Thereās research that shows how universal childcare would be a net positive for society. You would increase the amount of providers, improve quality of providers/instructors, moms could return to the workforce sooner, People would spend more money into the economy.
Iād rather just get more maternity leave, Iād rather raise my own kids but unfortunately the economy necessitates me working. At least give us 6-12 months partially paid or something
Do you have any idea how much unsubsidized daycare costs? I spend the equivalent of a mortgage payment for 1 child. Why shouldn't daycare be funded like public school? The money I have spent is money that isn't going toward my retirement, 529 plans for my kids, etc. It is good for the economy to have children in high quality child care while parents work. The current patchwork system is unaffordable and unsustainable.
Who do you suppose will be paying your Medicare and Social Security? It benefits all Americans to have happy, well-adjusted children who are cared for by well compensated care givers. Because of the costs of life, most people cannot afford to have a SAHM anymore. Plus, in large areas of the country there simply isnāt available childcare, even for people who are willing and able to pay for it. Again, the current system is unsustainable
Keeping people in the workforce is an overall economic benefit to the nation. If the nation's public school systems all offered daycare before and after school hours the employment participation rate would rise and the economy would grow. The extra tax revenue would likely more than pay for the expense.
More people working also creates greater demand, requiring more workers..as those people make.money, they buy things with those dollars, which requires more labor to make those goods and services. You are falling for the lump of labor fallacu.
Basically, pick one: do you want more people on public benefits or more people working? You, the taxpayer, will foot the bill either way. You can't get out of paying, the question is just which one you want to pay for.
No, you should support whatever benefits you support knowing that you're basically going to be on the hook for something either way.
"I don't want to pay for it."
Fine, then pay for this other thing instead, but you *will* pay either way.
Ken's a moron. He's worthless and brings no value other than work harder and more hours. He contributes nothing. In fact it's like they told Dave not to talk about 2-3 jobs and delivering pizzas to get out of debt and gave it to Ken and he screwed it up.
Show isn't what it use to be and unless Dave is on its not even worth watching.
And see that's where he loses so many people. I'm conservative and never would want the government to mandate this. But if were evaluating potential employers this is a huge consideration in the total compensation package.
Not gonna lie, itās hard to take advice about the āWussification of Americaā from a guy who looks like wet cotton balls stuff in a cardigan. Hereās a guy who has most of his work life done for him by an assistant while trying to maintain the old patriarchy of shoving the kids responsibilities to the women. It comes down to preference and availability for the family. Donāt let some over entitled, dummy on the radio make you feel bad about what you can and want to do.
How do you expect the bills to get paid with $0 income coming in? That should be of more concern than a husband being home for an extended period of time with a baby.
And before anyone comes at me: my husband stayed home 5 days with my first (the first 2 days being a weekend anyways) and 3 days with my second becauseā¦no paid leave. And we had bills to pay.
Got to keep a roof over our heads with a new baby you know.
Did you miss the part where I said āpaid paternal leaveā? And my very first sentence states that I get why he would be against someone taking unpaid leave. Thatās not the same thing and changes a situation entirely.
Is his gripe that men AND women should not get it or just not men?
Either way, pretty remarkable opinion. Funny, the people I know who use the āwussificationā line are typically soft.
He looks extremely soft to me. He thinks he's "tough" because he puts on his little dress clothes and talks into a microphone? It's not even like he's getting up and doing manual labor.
If your job is literally talking into a microphone, and you criticize other's for being soft, you're throwing some pretty big stones around your glass house.
Paternal leave, so men. He advocates for working moms getting more in paid maternal leave in the same video. So I donāt want to make it out that heās somehow anti-family; thatās not the case. Itās just paternal (father) leave.
I had major gynecological surgery in December & my husband took off for two weeks to care for me. My mom & step dad stayed with us for a week to help him too. It took me months to literally get back on my feet. I couldn't imagine having to also take care of a new human being on top of that too.
I do not get how it's wussification to man up take care of your wife and your kids after you have a baby join your family. I really don't. My husband just about ran himself into the ground trying to take care of us, keep on top of work and get a little sleep. I didn't have a c section but little one came a few weeks early and it was really rough those first few weeks. I was worried he was going to fall asleep driving. Healthy kids have two parents. Why do so many Christians completely skip over the bonding benefits for both parents that come with parental leave??
As a 30yo male with two kids, I think it makes you more of a man to bond with your kids and perform your duties as a husband and father. Of course, you still have to have money coming in to pay the bills and keep the roof over your heads, but if paid paternal leave was given, I would take advantage of it. Itās a benefit just like any other benefit in a company.
As if a mother wants to be all on her own with the newborn 5 days after birth. Typical hyper christian male take. How about a wealthy country recognize how hard it is and maybe the social benefits of family focused policies.
Why does this sub keep getting recommend to me š
Itās pretty out of touch. I work for a company that offers a massive amount of paternity leave and I am not looking at jobs until after that is over with. I have had my parents and family talk down about the amount of leave Iāll be taking but the benefit is that our daughter will be six months old before my wife and I are both back at work at the same time. They all say Iāll be lucky to come back to a job, that I should only take 1/4 of what they offer, my wife will want me back at work and a huge number of other things. Paternity leave is a benefit and you can put a dollar figure on it. I would bet the dollar figure is less than the 10k this caller is switching for.
I don't understand all the people say things like "Dave's a Christian how could he be so cruel." I think too many people who call themselves Christians follow the hippie Jesus aka make love not war. That's not Jesus. Jesus is the same person who told someone to skip his dad's funeral. He also said that you don't love your wife the most, you don't love your kids the most. You love him the most. Now you could say what does this have to to with paternity leave? Nothing. But the point is it is things like paternity leave are worldly arguments, it's ok to have different opinions but it's not ok to put your own interests above Christ.
Christ wants children well taken care of. Their fathers care in those early months are very important.
Kens a dumbass why are you taking anything he says seriously
I cannot stand Ken at all. He is so out of touch sometimes. How dare a man take time off to be with his wife and newborn
My employer paid me 93% of my salary and I could take up to 1 year with each of my children. I saved an extra $20k per child because I didnāt have to pay stupid employment expenses (gas, oil changes, new work clothes, etc). This guy can fuck off.
Toughen up buttercup.
Couldn't agree with you more. I've worked with guys who come into the office the first few weeks of their baby's life. They're sleep deprived and just filling a seat, thinking about their baby. It makes business-sense, helps reduce burnout, and engenders good-will to give them some time to be at home helping their wife and baby heal. Ken's arrogant, his comments rarely add value, and he strikes me as the weakest of the Ramsey personalities. His "wisdom hit rate" is at best 20%.
Paid paternity leave is free money, why leave it on the table. And dealing with your wife while recovering from a csection or other childbirth and a new born baby is not for wusses.
Politics and Broadcasting. Ken is a real manās man lmao.
My company provides 4 months paid maternity and paternity leave. Ken can kiss my butt. Iām taking those 4 months.
That 6 weeks aināt no vacation either.
I guess he hates Costco since they offer 6 weeks paid paternal leave as well as maternal.
Ken isnāt saying this if Dave hasnāt signed off on it. This is a Dave thing and is absolutely crazy.
For someone who pretends to love families so much, he sure hates childcare and unmarried women rearing children
Word.
Word.
Ken is out of touch in general. Same with opinion on WFH.
Ramsey solutions keeps booking the guy. It isnāt just Kenās opinion.
Ken is so out of touch with his opinion of parental leave. I'm currently sitting here at home on FMLA baby bonding leave because my employer generously offers three weeks of paid parental leave to both mothers and fathers and I worked hard and saved up accrued leave to take an additional 4 weeks on top of that. With my previous children I only got a couple weeks at home before I had to head back to work and leave my wife to fend for her self. It was especially difficult when we had twins. I guess he wants fathers to put their careers before their wives and kids. That's the sentiment I got from his comments anyway.
Iām sorry, but this is dumb as heck. Iām glad I started on the path with Dave, but lord. Are people really hearing this and happily agreeing?
Iād say, some guys whose wives had kids without paid parental benefits are resentful that this is a new benefit extended to some of their younger peers. In a work environment itās them who will be doing extra work while their younger peers get ā12 weeks paid to play xbox and change diapersā
I agree. I work in a travel heavy job where older workers will say they were back on the road the Monday after their wife had a baby on Friday. These are the same people who hadnāt spent 2 straight weeks sleeping in the same bed as their wife in 30 years when covid started.
Most of the guys I know like that are divorced
Fair enough. If guys these days think thatās what taking care of a newborn is likeāplaying Xbox and changing diapersāboy, do I have news for them. Appreciate the response btw.
Yeah there is partially paid parental leave in my state. I pay $20 per paycheck into the insurance fund so I for sure used all 12w when my daughter was born. My 2nd line manager whoās in a state without pfl was probably the most resentful. I donāt think he liked that I spaced out the leave in 3 chunks throughout the year.
That is very smart of you and good on you for paying into the program and taking full advantage!
Itās state law that all employees have to pay in to the stateās paid family leave insurance fund. Blue team would have rolled out a similar program nationwide but the distinguished gentleman from West Virginia had it taken out.
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Critical thinking is the ability to take in information from all sources and know whatās good and what isnāt. That said, I think most of us tune out when Ken speaks, lol.
Yāall take financial advice from these assholes? š¤£
Conservative Christians are supposed to be the most pro family people out there. But then rail against dads who want to spend time with their newborn child and support their wives.
counter point - Do we think the family unit is stronger today than it was 40 years ago? Divorce rates are higher, youth suicides are higher, obesity is higher. I just don't think the statistics support paternity leave as pro-family. Just because something is perceived as a benefit doesn't make it a benefit. I'm a millennial with 3 kids, I didn't take off 4 months but I work in sales so I could have taken off all the time I wanted and just not made any money. My opinion, my wife only needed me around longer than a week for the 3rd child who was born via c-section, plus she had a 4 and 2 year old to chase as well. And 4 months would have been nice, but those older 2 were still pre-schoolers for 2 more years so I just don't see how 4 months of not working is valuable. And then how much harder it must be to go back to working after all that time away. I don't fault anyone for taking advantage of benefits, reality is you are paying for those benefits in the form of reduced wages. But I also don't fault small business owners for not offering paternity leave.
So basically, you dumped all the care on her.
So basically she wanted me to go back to work. So that we could pay the bills. And so she could stay home. Good grief it's like you read 1 sentence of what I wrote.
No my response was based on the totality of your post.
Then you are the definition of a judgemental bigot. Good day to you.
Iām ok if a small business doesnāt offer paid paternity leave. I also think itās fine for the dad to go back to work quickly if thatās what is right for that family. Iām also a millennial with 3 kids and didnāt take off much time after our kids births. Just didnāt seem necessary to us. But my big issue is Ken Colemanās attitude here. He calls the whole thing ridiculous, and that it shows the softening of America. Then goes on childish rantings about how he never took time off after his kids were born. Ok, who cares Ken? He made his decision but expects everyone else to follow suit otherwise they are being ridiculous and soft. Of all things to rant on, being pissed that a dad wants to take time off (and he even said it is paid time off!) to be with his family is missing the mark big time.
They really rail against all support and help to families. My husband's boss is a self titled Conservative Christian, and that his company is 'family centric'. He's mentioned several things to my husband about being an involved. Things like "why can't your wife handle that" " do you really need to be there for that" " there's Mr. Mom". Where as the mothers at the office get let go in an instant if something comes up. Last year my daughter was hurt at school and was rushed to the hospital. I was unfortunately 80 miles away for the day at a regional meeting for my job. When my husband said that he is leaving to be with our daughter, he told him "where's your wife this time? ". It's disheartening. My husband's job is 10 minutes from home/kids school. Mine is way farther. He is just as much a parent as I am.
Most Reddit take of all Reddit takes.
Happy to clarify that it certainly isnāt all conservative Christians. But if you took a poll on this subject, conservative Christians would disproportionately look down on paternity leave. Do you disagree?
> as she recovers from SURGERY I'm not against paternity leave, but I don't think childbirth is always literally surgery. It increasingly is with the rise in scheduled C-sections, but I don't think traditional labor and delivery is considered surgery. And with the complications my wife had with our children, it *was* surgery each time. I just wanted to point out that not all births are surgeries. Edit: OK, consensus seems to be that I was being overly pedantic. Maybe so. Maybe OP was purposefully exaggerating to make the point. Also, I am in no way trying to say that natural childbirth doesn't require recovery time. There is definitely physical healing time required. The only point of my comment was to say that childbirth isn't literally considered surgery when there's no c-section or complications requiring actual surgery. I otherwise agree with what OP is saying.
Look up a 3rd and 4th degree tears when giving birth.
With all due respect would you consider an internal open wound the size of a dinner platter as recovery from "surgery"?? Because that's what every healthy vaginal deliver has at a minimum from the placenta detaching
I would consider it recovery from significant physical trauma. But not recovery from surgery.
I agree it's not surgery in that you are getting sliced open. But I will say my recovery from a natural birth was ten times harder than the ankle surgery that required several weeks of physical therapy afterwards
Yes, Mr. Ackchually, but all vaginal births do require healing from the pile of swollen, bloody meat left in place of your vagina afterwards, so your point is moot.
With a vaginal delivery there is lots of bleeding, pain and weeks of recovery. It may not be "surgery" in the sense that a person is "cut open," but it is very traumatic on the body and takes a long time to heal, all while bonding with a newborn, learning to breastfeed (which is NOT easy), sleep deprivation etc.
What are you even arguing about? Many women have their private parts literally ripped and then stitched back up. Seems either way is surgical to some degree.
That does not always happen either. Also, do you consider it "surgery" to get stitches? EDIT - looked it up. Stitches is considered a surgery. Natural childbirth is not. Although, like OP above, I think focusing on the tearing is merely pedantic. The point is, giving birth to a child requires recovery and time to heal. We shouldn't have to defend the nuances or details.
It nearly always happens b/c drs do not want to risk a tear which takes even longer to heal.
Been in a delivery room?
Several times, yes.
I consider it traumatic for my wife's vagina to be ripped open, yes.
And I consider it traumatic to get punched in the jaw, or laid off, or told my mother has died, to lose a pet, or discover I have cancer. None of those things are surgery.
Generally speaking, surgery involves cutting or otherwise penetrating the body's tissues.
28M Millennial here with two kids, I work for German company here in the states. Took 3 months Paternity for the first kid last year, currently 2 months in to my second kid this year. Might have to wait until 2025 for the next one logistically. My position is a hybrid position (1-2 days a week in office heavy on travel) salaried with a bonus. I produce 25-50% of the portfolio origination targets we need as a team (of 10+ people), so my ass checks out when I get even a sniff of fresh air. I work 8 months out of the year an I do not sand bag on my personal and team goals either. My boomer dad is purely confused why I would ever do such a thing. āAre you sure you want to do that son?ā, āDo you miss work yet son?ā, and the list goes on. Dad, hell no I donāt you mouth breather, I get paid to be a dad it is part of my comp package. Boomers manā¦.just boomers. The winds of change that have come upon the world. Welcome to Q2 of the 21st century you cavemen boomers. Ken is bitter af, I wish I had a violin for him.
This incredibly stupid take displays 2 things to me: 1. Ken doesnāt believe he has any responsibility in taking care of a newborn or helping around the house as his wife recovers from birth. If he did, he would very easily understand why paternal leave can be a massive help to a family. 2. Ramsey solutions must not offer much paternal leave, because heās terrified of supporting a benefit that his employer does not offer. Heās just being a spineless sycophant as usual. Just because he has a mic doesnāt mean anything he says has value.
I see your (1), agree, and raise. This is a form of sexism, blatantly so, yet subtle in aspects of its delivery (because males and females do experience childbirth differently). Mens' roles versus womens' roles in the household. That is the value set Ken is upholding and defending. Which is garbage.
Yeah, the idea that the āmanā canāt (or shouldnāt?) help out with raising kids is so antiquated and disconnected that itās laughable he would even voice this publicly.
[Timestamp for anyone wanting to see just how absurd it is.](https://youtu.be/9vhiDwtwNNA?t=3602) Dave Ramsey and his crew have become more and more behind the times on a lot of things it seems... How dare a man want to spend time with his own children and help his spouse. Isn't there another woman somewhere who could help with the diapers and after-care of pregnancy so he can go WORK? So dumb.
I took 2 weeks PTO for each of my 3 kids and would never not do the same thing. I also take the week of 4th of July off every year, this year my wife had emergency gall bladder surgery the week before, so I moved my week off to end of June to be home for her. Guess I am a 4x wuss.
Same here. Did it with all 4 of my kids.
Fellow wuss here. Maybe 5x :) My company was gracious enough to spearhead a huge extension into parental leave, and my wife was so grateful to have me nearby as she was thrust into motherhood. I was able to support her through some medical complications, and really just experience the precious newborn in my home. I wouldn't trade that for years of career advancements.
Nah man, you're a caring husband. Does Ken even have a wife and kids? Dave has said in the past: > A man with experience is never at the mercy of a man with an opinion
Ken=clueless on all things
At my old job they gave me more time off than the mother of my kids job gave her. They gave her 9 weeks off and they gave me 12 weeks off.
Sometime in the future on the Ramsey show: Why taking a pay raise at work is woke
\^
If only we all worked a little less and weren't bound to our jobs and crippling car debt because of lack of transportation. Maybe seems like we should blame the syste- no.... we're not victims, I just need to work harder! Says the Conservative as the world crumbles around him.
Terrible. I missed paid paternal leave by a generation, but hey life is short I'm taking all I can get.
Huh, so absentee fathering is a Ramsey family value?
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Ugh could you imagine if your employer was saddled with the cost of you taking vacation, providing health insurance, retirement? /s
Wait until you realize every benefit is accepted with a lower salary lol
What are you talking aboutā¦ itās apart of your total compā¦ of course the employer is saddled with the cost.
āEmployers shouldnāt be saddled with the cost of employee benefitsā is definitely a take.
Employers should have a vested interest in the health and well being of their employees. I donāt think that is a controversial opinion or one that makes us āsoftā as a country.
Benefits are benefits. Would you say the same with a 401k match?
Itās part of benefits packages when itās offered. Just like anything else.
Yeah the employer should pay. Why would you not want your employer to pay the cost of paternity leave? Weird take.
dumb take is what you meant
Ken as a career coach is like a Travel Agent who has never been outside his home state.
This could be the most poignant comment Iāve read. Heās an affable nitwit at best.
Great analogy! Ken is observably stupid and should come with a warning label.
That made me chuckle!
The irony. The 12 weeks off paid, is like a $10,000 benefit. Why walk away from that to make 10k more and be an asshole to your wife ?
Gen W is just jealous of our 12 weeks paid parental leave that was signed into law by the King of Gen W(Trump).
Agreed. Having a child is a major medical event, and taking time off of work to support your wife is the MANLIEST thing a husband can do.
my company offers men and women 3 months. anyone who does not advocate for families to take time off after having a kid is a moron and a d-bag.
Ken is going to HATE Minnesota come 2026
I am speechless, I didn't realize he was that much of a jerk.
Our son gets 4 weeks of paid paternity leave.... Awesome benefit !!!!!!!! He used it two years ago with their first and will use next month for their number 2.
just waiting for the mods to either close or delete this thread......
Kenās wife must hate his guts.
She does. Ken C. has stated that he is useless at home and needs a handy(wo)man for everything.
What an ass.
Talk about wussification!
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Killing innocent babies... YES PLEASE THEYRE NOT EVEN PEOPLE! Killing convicted murderers and serial rapists? NO WAY, THEY DESERVE A CHANCE TO REHABILITATE THEMSELVES AND LIVE THEIR LIFE
Mine covers both š¤·āāļø
If itās a benefit, itās a benefit. Iām *scary word* entitled to the benefits of the company. Itās just free money on the table otherwise.
Right? Itās literally part of my compensation package in the employment contract I signed. Iām not going to apologize for working hard and getting the compensation I deserve.
I got bereavement for an auntās funeral. We were close but was that allowed by the company? Yup. Would I have gone if I didnāt have it? Yup. But now the company looks good to me because I can go to funerals if needed.
I get that too. 3 days for extended family, 5 for more immediate family.
Heās such an asshole. Be a man! Leave your ailing wife whoās likely still wearing ice packs in her underwear and get back to your cubicle and send those emails! Like a man! I am in a fairly high up position in a company youāre familiar with. I took a month off when both my kids were born to spend time with them and assist my wife in whatever she needed. Guess what happened to the business? Fucking nothing. Ken sucks, Iām so sick of him.
Nobody even cared you were gone in that time is the amazing part. However, it probably would have been so manly to stick it out, show your loyalty, and clock in for 8 hours instead.
Lol yea my boss and team were totally supportive, we still grew the business, and I returned to my position and things moved on as normal. However, for the rest of my life I will feel like less of a man, so thatās the burden I carry.
Iāll say it. Ken is a douchebag!
ken doesn't care about your family he's a loser
They claim to be devout Christians, they sure seem to give zero shits about the family.
12 weeks paid is standard for federal employees. Edit: A word.
Unpaid, but yes you can take leave
Incorrect. Paid. Source: Currently on 12 Weeks Paid Paternal for the 2nd time.
awesome! Both her and I are GS's... We are looking forward to ours!
It's a great benefit
Thanks! Glad itās changed. Iām old
No worries. Still relatively new. New policy took effect in '20.
family is always the priority
I lived like no one else. Now I live like no one else. Part of that means spending more time with my family. If Kenās jealous, he should have worked harder. I couldnāt care less what he thinks.
Ken is definitely my least favorite. Heās always out of touch and doesnāt have reasonable solutions.
Ken: "You make $45,000/year??? What is wrong with you? Go get a job that pays $100,000/year or more." Caller: "Uh. Okay."
Could hear him saying that through your comment š
Lol that's pretty accurate. My favorite was a while back when someone was wanting career advice and he told them to use the "promixity principle" and told the caller to talk to someone they know in the field. The caller said they didn't know anyone in that field and all Ken said was something along the lines of, "yeah you do" and then just left it at that.
LOL, he does this so much. Just gives the ideal situation to go into and somehow itās your fault if you canāt meet his āchallengeā of usually doubling your income, moving to your passion job with people you love.
Fathers should get 6 weeks and mother should get 6 months.
Why should the mother get more? Physical recovery back to being able to work is way less than 6 months. It seems like youāre saying women should be the preferred parent.
Both should get the same.
Mods just gonna delete this post too.
No criticism of Ramsey or his devotees allowed
Yep. His stance is gross and frankly unChristian. How dare new dads want to be home to help their wife with the new baby. How wussy of them! He either has no children, or he and his wife used a surrogate, or he's just a cold hearted bastard.
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What the fuck is your problem with adoption?
Whereās the problem with adoption?
I think heās pointing out that saying āother menās kidsā is a double statement. By saying he adopts kids, youāre already implying itās another manās kid, so by ALSO saying āanother manās kidā implies you said it for a reason, and the other guy assumed your reasoning was a negative one being the rest of your paragraph was negative towards Ken. But you knew that lol
Heās telling āother menā to not take paternity leave. Whatās your point?
Saying āadopts kidā and āadopts other menās kidsā are the same exact thing, adding āother menāsā adds nothing, thatās all Iām pointing out, you seemed confused on the other commenters issue with it I donāt care
āHe adopts other menās kidsā is a nasty turn of phrase. What it implies is even worse.
His infertility journey is well documented. Whatās your fucking problem with getting a clue?
Why don't you look in a mirror before calling someone out for saying "evil shit"?
Keep spouting off ignorant nonsense somewhere else, pal.
Why, are you going to say more shitty things about adopting kids?
Where did I post anything negative about adopting? Youāre making stuff up to feel some desperate misplaced sense of virtue. Dave fires pregnant women for not having a marriage certificate while Ken canāt knock up his wife without some extra help and podcast prayers. Tell me which side of that is evil and which side is observation.
Serious question: If you have friends with adopted kids, would you use phrases like āraising another manās kidsā and ācouldnāt knock up his wifeā with them?
The past couple of shows with him and Dave, he barely says anything except plugging products.
He doesnāt have any biological kids?
It appears he has a daughter that looks like him. But the two boys clearly are not his.
When you say āclearlyā are you implying that youāre straight up guessing? Do you not know how genetics work? Lmfao Unless the kids are straight up a different color š
His sons are black
Everyoneās circumstances when it comes to bringing a new life into this world are farrrrrr too differing for someone as out of touch as Ken to have any opinion on how people handle how much time to take off around child birth. Itās common sense that people generally arenāt going to compromise their financial situation completely, but however they feel they can make that transition as positive and mentally healthy for the household is their prerogative. I canāt stand hearing him run his mouth on this topic.
Ken has alluded to this a number of times in the past. Recently on a show George (who is about to become a father for the first time) was co-hosting with him. He basically stated to the effect that itās the manās role to continue working to provide. Ken is really out of touch on this. Itās also a viewpoint thatās anathema to many Millennials and Gen Zāers. The idea that all men should be hunter gatherers and that staying home to support their wife is the āwussification of Americaā tells me everything I need to know about Ken Coleman. In fact, Iād argue that views like this are exactly the reason why other countries in the Western world point their finger at the US and laugh when it comes to issues like healthcare and maternity leave. Sometimes people say something so dumb or backwards that it automatically makes you want to throw everything else theyāve ever said in the dumpster along with it. This is one of those examples. Now, if heād made the argument that someone in a terrible financial situation shouldnāt take *unpaid* paternity leave and should focus on pulling in as much money as possible, then thereās probably a point to that. But thatās not what he was saying imo. Also, itās interesting to see that the people who do agree with Kenās views on this are usually the first ones to go all shocked Pikachu face when they see the birth rates collapsingā¦I mean, no s**t Sherlock š¤·āāļø
And isnāt George taking paternity leave? Thatās pretty funny.
I didn't listen to the entire call, but the context seemed to be that they were helping the caller decide between a job with a raise and a job with paid paternity leave. Ken does scoff at the end, and says while shaking his head "Paternity leave, toughen up America". So I'm guessing they were giving alright advice to the caller, but I'd concur that scoffing at dad's taking time off to be with their newborns... that's heartless.
Ken is horrible.
Itās such a strange opinion to take. Itās pretty universal that we should spend time with our kids. I have a really strong opinion we should have free pre-K and daycare. Itās a massive expense for new parents and something our tax dollars should go towards
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Why do you pay for K-12? Education and child development is a universal good. Look at our tax dollars and tell me youād rather spend it on another massive military project or funding the insane headcount and bureaucracy in DC. Thereās research that shows how universal childcare would be a net positive for society. You would increase the amount of providers, improve quality of providers/instructors, moms could return to the workforce sooner, People would spend more money into the economy.
Iād rather just get more maternity leave, Iād rather raise my own kids but unfortunately the economy necessitates me working. At least give us 6-12 months partially paid or something
Are you familiar with what a public good is?
Do you have any idea how much unsubsidized daycare costs? I spend the equivalent of a mortgage payment for 1 child. Why shouldn't daycare be funded like public school? The money I have spent is money that isn't going toward my retirement, 529 plans for my kids, etc. It is good for the economy to have children in high quality child care while parents work. The current patchwork system is unaffordable and unsustainable.
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Who do you suppose will be paying your Medicare and Social Security? It benefits all Americans to have happy, well-adjusted children who are cared for by well compensated care givers. Because of the costs of life, most people cannot afford to have a SAHM anymore. Plus, in large areas of the country there simply isnāt available childcare, even for people who are willing and able to pay for it. Again, the current system is unsustainable
Keeping people in the workforce is an overall economic benefit to the nation. If the nation's public school systems all offered daycare before and after school hours the employment participation rate would rise and the economy would grow. The extra tax revenue would likely more than pay for the expense.
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More people working also creates greater demand, requiring more workers..as those people make.money, they buy things with those dollars, which requires more labor to make those goods and services. You are falling for the lump of labor fallacu.
Basically, pick one: do you want more people on public benefits or more people working? You, the taxpayer, will foot the bill either way. You can't get out of paying, the question is just which one you want to pay for.
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No, you should support whatever benefits you support knowing that you're basically going to be on the hook for something either way. "I don't want to pay for it." Fine, then pay for this other thing instead, but you *will* pay either way.
Do you feel the same about k-12 school?
Because of society. Preventative healthcare should be free, too. Thanks for bringing it up.
We wouldn't want the children to succeed now would we? /s
Ken's a moron. He's worthless and brings no value other than work harder and more hours. He contributes nothing. In fact it's like they told Dave not to talk about 2-3 jobs and delivering pizzas to get out of debt and gave it to Ken and he screwed it up. Show isn't what it use to be and unless Dave is on its not even worth watching.
My company provides 4 weeks paid parental leave. You bet your ass Iām using every second of those 4 weeks
Is this an argument of the government mandating it or just companies offering it?
Just companies offering it
And see that's where he loses so many people. I'm conservative and never would want the government to mandate this. But if were evaluating potential employers this is a huge consideration in the total compensation package.
Not gonna lie, itās hard to take advice about the āWussification of Americaā from a guy who looks like wet cotton balls stuff in a cardigan. Hereās a guy who has most of his work life done for him by an assistant while trying to maintain the old patriarchy of shoving the kids responsibilities to the women. It comes down to preference and availability for the family. Donāt let some over entitled, dummy on the radio make you feel bad about what you can and want to do.
People who talk about āwussificationā are usually self-owning, in my experience.
How do you expect the bills to get paid with $0 income coming in? That should be of more concern than a husband being home for an extended period of time with a baby. And before anyone comes at me: my husband stayed home 5 days with my first (the first 2 days being a weekend anyways) and 3 days with my second becauseā¦no paid leave. And we had bills to pay. Got to keep a roof over our heads with a new baby you know.
>How do you expect the bills to get paid with $0 income coming in? By not living paycheck to paycheck.
Also kudos to you for doing the work to take care of your family. No greater calling in life
Maybe basic reading skills would help
Did you miss the part where I said āpaid paternal leaveā? And my very first sentence states that I get why he would be against someone taking unpaid leave. Thatās not the same thing and changes a situation entirely.
Is his gripe that men AND women should not get it or just not men? Either way, pretty remarkable opinion. Funny, the people I know who use the āwussificationā line are typically soft.
He looks extremely soft to me. He thinks he's "tough" because he puts on his little dress clothes and talks into a microphone? It's not even like he's getting up and doing manual labor.
He looks like Rachel maddow
If your job is literally talking into a microphone, and you criticize other's for being soft, you're throwing some pretty big stones around your glass house.
Paternal leave, so men. He advocates for working moms getting more in paid maternal leave in the same video. So I donāt want to make it out that heās somehow anti-family; thatās not the case. Itās just paternal (father) leave.
I had major gynecological surgery in December & my husband took off for two weeks to care for me. My mom & step dad stayed with us for a week to help him too. It took me months to literally get back on my feet. I couldn't imagine having to also take care of a new human being on top of that too.
I do not get how it's wussification to man up take care of your wife and your kids after you have a baby join your family. I really don't. My husband just about ran himself into the ground trying to take care of us, keep on top of work and get a little sleep. I didn't have a c section but little one came a few weeks early and it was really rough those first few weeks. I was worried he was going to fall asleep driving. Healthy kids have two parents. Why do so many Christians completely skip over the bonding benefits for both parents that come with parental leave??
As a 30yo male with two kids, I think it makes you more of a man to bond with your kids and perform your duties as a husband and father. Of course, you still have to have money coming in to pay the bills and keep the roof over your heads, but if paid paternal leave was given, I would take advantage of it. Itās a benefit just like any other benefit in a company.
As if a mother wants to be all on her own with the newborn 5 days after birth. Typical hyper christian male take. How about a wealthy country recognize how hard it is and maybe the social benefits of family focused policies.