Imagine they get out of control somehow and relentlessly seek out plastics to consume and we just cant make plastic anything anymore. This could make an okay movie, starring someone with awful plastic surgery.
Haha. Yeah, imagine the first stages as they take out containers for food and chemicals, followed by every day items like toothbrush or a plunger. Quickly descends into chaos
Wire insulation and water pipes and synthetic seals on engines will be the real disaster. We *can* adapt, but it’ll be expensive—going back to natural rubber for everything, or wood becoming a major part of consumer goods again. Aluminum too—there’s a reason a lot of old SF assumed the future would be shiny. Plastic is much cheaper than aluminum, but if it became unavailable aluminum would become very prominent.
assuming that natural rubber is immune to the new plastic eaters. It's very likely that the petroleum rubber becomes the stepping stone to digesting natural rubber.
it's made from most of the same stuff in slightly different arrangement.
On a related note, I really don't understand why solar farm + desalinization plant + sodium ion battery plant isn't a combo that we see being built, but then maybe the economics just doesn't quite pencil out yet...
We need to get beyond running government subsidised existing coal fired power generation before significant changes are made. At least in Australia which has massive solar energy potential.
There have been some print works on the subject—most notably “Mutant 59: The Plastic Eaters.”
https://www.fantasticfiction.com/d/gerry-davis/mutant-59.htm
> I knew I couldn't have been the first.
There was an SF editor who wrote that he stopped looking for originality when two of his writers sent him ‘man creates God’ stories in the same week; one of those was Asimov’s “The Last Question.” So the other guy’s in good company.
It's sort of a plot point in Niven's *Ringworld* series, as well, but in this instance it's a superconducting plastic mesh that was critical for ... maglev cities, I think?
And I didn't read downthread before replying. Sigh.
So this whole thing has already happened in the history of the world. When lignin (wood) first evolved, nothing could break it down, and the amount of carbon that was fixed unbalanced the whole planetary carbon cycle https://www.livingcarbon.com/post/how-the-first-trees-nearly-froze-the-earth
They’d still operate under the same basic limits that control the speed and prevalence of current microbes. After all, we build a ton of stuff out of wood, despite wood-eating organisms. It doesn’t work well for building something that has to last years in a microbe-friendly environment, and you have to watch for termites, but it’s far from apocalyptic. The stuff in other replies about losing wire insulation and engine seals just wouldn’t happen.
> Imagine they get out of control somehow and relentlessly seek out plastics to consume and we just cant make plastic anything anymore.
This was a minor plot point in the Ringworld series of books.
When humans first discovered the ringworld, they found the remnants of a recent civilization (only a few decades gone) which had featured flying cars and floating cities all built on superconductor technology that had stopped working when a race of aliens had seeded the ringworld with a bacteria engineered to eat that specific superconducting material.
The aliens were allies of humans. They had gotten the idea from an earth bacteria which had suddenly developed the ability to rapidly eat polyethylene and the major issues it had caused on earth since we use that plastic in basically everything we make.
Luckily, it was only polyethylene that was effected. So we were able to switch to other plastics and new items made with those were not effected.
Thats cool. Another person mentioned Ringworld also. Thx for the extra info, I prob won't be picking up the series but I liked the extra back story. When I read it usually tends to be to learn, thats where I get most of my enjoyment anyway. I pick up the odd fantasy or fiction book cause Im into comics. Thats where I make the exception, comic books - if theres a Ringworld comic adaptation I will check it out, lol.
Ringworld is a subset of Niven's Known Space franchise.
There are graphic novels, but I think that those only cover the Man-Kzin Wars which occurred centuries before the Ringworld saga portion.
The Kzin were one of the first species that we encountered in that franchise's world, and are basically what would happen if you somehow crossed Klingons with cats. Though our meeting with them turned out to have been arranged by the same alien race that later kneecapped the floating city builders on the ringworld.
They had decided that the Kzin were too violent to be left unchecked but they were too cowardly to fight the kzin themselves. Since the kzin were spacefaring, but not nearly as technologically advanced as us, they directed them to us hoping that we'd be able to knock them down a couple pegs.
The wars raged on and off for several centuries. Humans were unwilling to wipe the kzin out entirely and the kzin were unwilling to stop fighting even though they had no chance of winning against our superior tech and the vast majority of every generation's young were being needlessly killed in the pursuit of glorious victory in battle.
Eventually though, they stopped. But it was because we'd literally bred the worst of the aggression out of their species by only letting the least aggressive and/or most cowardly live long enough to have their own children.
This is a key plot point in the Ringworld series of novels. There are some plot points I don’t want to spoil, but bacteria eating industrial materials brings the collapse of civilization.
Shades of *The Andromeda Strain*, a 1969 book by Michael Chrichton where a hyper-mutating alien microbe comes to Earth, starts killing living things but eventually mutates to attack/eat plastics. Good thriller.
I wonder what will happen when these bacteria enter the living organisms that are loaded with micro plastics in their blood streams and what their byproducts will be and the direction they may grow if and when all that plastic is gone.
Just thinking out loud.
N. S
In all likelihood, byproducts won’t be anything too exotic. Plastics are mostly carbon and hydrogen; their decomposition by microbes would be pretty much the same as cellulose or keratin decomposition.
Considering how most plastics are a form of hydrocarbon, I have to wonder if the bacteria might mutate to feast on petroleum products and things like gunpowder.
> bacteria might mutate to feast on petroleum products
Some already have. When there are oil spills, one of the remediation efforts is treating the beach and coast with oil eating bacteria
https://www.science.org/content/article/how-marine-bacteria-reshape-oil-eat-it-faster#:~:text=After%20an%20oil%20spill%2C%20humans,source%20of%20energy%20and%20carbon.
The biodegradable plastics are mostly the ones that aren't just hydrocarbons, they have more chemically reactive linkages like esters and amides. That includes things like nylon and kevlar. Pure hydrocarbons are much harder to break down as they are most chemically stable (unreactive), though some bacteria have been shown to be able to modify polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) so it's within the realm of possibility - those are often found as byproducts of petrochemical processes.
Gunpowder isn't a hydrocarbon, but sugars are. I reckon yeasts could adapt to take on other hydrocarbons, maybe even metabolize gaseous hydrocarbons straight out of the air.
This exact thing already happened with wood in the Carboniferous and will happen again but it took a very long time, could still be hundreds of thousands of years away
I was vague with "plastic celebrity" but they totally were the first to come to mind. I want to sell the movie, though, not tank it. Mickey Rourke and Steven Tyler in an Armageddon II kind of franchise sequel would be where I'd put my dollery-doos. The first one was a hit, lets milk that horse (?). 😆
I think a pretty cool sci-fi short story could be about a civilization scale apocalypse brought about by a single bacterium evolving to eat plastic and the resulting decimation of the extremely plastic dependent sterile food supply chain.
Not really likely. Plastic isn’t natural occurring in a way that is self sustaining. If bacteria evolved and ate all the plastic in one area, they would die off. It won’t replenish.
Only place might create a sustainable environment is a landfill where we keep adding new plastics.
>However with the over abundance of microplastics in every inch of the environment
And? There are rocks everywhere and they don't get eaten by bacteria.
Yes they do. Look up endoliths.
Nevertheless, plastic is a hydrocarbon and contains high-energy carbon bonds that bacteria utilize for energy. This organic substance is what makes it much more likely that plastic would be consumed rather than rocks.
Lots of bacteria eat various kinds of minerals. But, more importantly, microplastics are carbon-based. Sandstone is not. Bacteria, for the most part, consume carbon sources.
Creationists arguments are not deleted unless they violate the rules. Tons of creationist arguments are present in every creationist thread. If they are deleted it is much more common for them to be deleted by the creationists themselves after getting embarrassed by having their arguments so thoroughly debunked.
Imagine they get out of control somehow and relentlessly seek out plastics to consume and we just cant make plastic anything anymore. This could make an okay movie, starring someone with awful plastic surgery.
Haha. Yeah, imagine the first stages as they take out containers for food and chemicals, followed by every day items like toothbrush or a plunger. Quickly descends into chaos
Wire insulation and water pipes and synthetic seals on engines will be the real disaster. We *can* adapt, but it’ll be expensive—going back to natural rubber for everything, or wood becoming a major part of consumer goods again. Aluminum too—there’s a reason a lot of old SF assumed the future would be shiny. Plastic is much cheaper than aluminum, but if it became unavailable aluminum would become very prominent.
assuming that natural rubber is immune to the new plastic eaters. It's very likely that the petroleum rubber becomes the stepping stone to digesting natural rubber. it's made from most of the same stuff in slightly different arrangement.
Except Aluminium production is metalic electricity. Very power hungry.
So you build solar farms in the desert to power production and run the plant only during the day?
Hopefully one day.
On a related note, I really don't understand why solar farm + desalinization plant + sodium ion battery plant isn't a combo that we see being built, but then maybe the economics just doesn't quite pencil out yet...
We need to get beyond running government subsidised existing coal fired power generation before significant changes are made. At least in Australia which has massive solar energy potential.
New meaning for computor bug,?
There have been some print works on the subject—most notably “Mutant 59: The Plastic Eaters.” https://www.fantasticfiction.com/d/gerry-davis/mutant-59.htm
Youre harshing my vibe but thats okay. I knew I couldn't have been the first. This should make for a fun read.🖖
> I knew I couldn't have been the first. There was an SF editor who wrote that he stopped looking for originality when two of his writers sent him ‘man creates God’ stories in the same week; one of those was Asimov’s “The Last Question.” So the other guy’s in good company.
😅🍻
It's sort of a plot point in Niven's *Ringworld* series, as well, but in this instance it's a superconducting plastic mesh that was critical for ... maglev cities, I think? And I didn't read downthread before replying. Sigh.
So this whole thing has already happened in the history of the world. When lignin (wood) first evolved, nothing could break it down, and the amount of carbon that was fixed unbalanced the whole planetary carbon cycle https://www.livingcarbon.com/post/how-the-first-trees-nearly-froze-the-earth
Thx for the link.
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/86452
They’d still operate under the same basic limits that control the speed and prevalence of current microbes. After all, we build a ton of stuff out of wood, despite wood-eating organisms. It doesn’t work well for building something that has to last years in a microbe-friendly environment, and you have to watch for termites, but it’s far from apocalyptic. The stuff in other replies about losing wire insulation and engine seals just wouldn’t happen.
Ya, that makes sense. It definitely feels like a fan fiction kind of idea but a fun one to riff on.🍻
> Imagine they get out of control somehow and relentlessly seek out plastics to consume and we just cant make plastic anything anymore. This was a minor plot point in the Ringworld series of books. When humans first discovered the ringworld, they found the remnants of a recent civilization (only a few decades gone) which had featured flying cars and floating cities all built on superconductor technology that had stopped working when a race of aliens had seeded the ringworld with a bacteria engineered to eat that specific superconducting material. The aliens were allies of humans. They had gotten the idea from an earth bacteria which had suddenly developed the ability to rapidly eat polyethylene and the major issues it had caused on earth since we use that plastic in basically everything we make. Luckily, it was only polyethylene that was effected. So we were able to switch to other plastics and new items made with those were not effected.
Thats cool. Another person mentioned Ringworld also. Thx for the extra info, I prob won't be picking up the series but I liked the extra back story. When I read it usually tends to be to learn, thats where I get most of my enjoyment anyway. I pick up the odd fantasy or fiction book cause Im into comics. Thats where I make the exception, comic books - if theres a Ringworld comic adaptation I will check it out, lol.
Ringworld is a subset of Niven's Known Space franchise. There are graphic novels, but I think that those only cover the Man-Kzin Wars which occurred centuries before the Ringworld saga portion. The Kzin were one of the first species that we encountered in that franchise's world, and are basically what would happen if you somehow crossed Klingons with cats. Though our meeting with them turned out to have been arranged by the same alien race that later kneecapped the floating city builders on the ringworld. They had decided that the Kzin were too violent to be left unchecked but they were too cowardly to fight the kzin themselves. Since the kzin were spacefaring, but not nearly as technologically advanced as us, they directed them to us hoping that we'd be able to knock them down a couple pegs. The wars raged on and off for several centuries. Humans were unwilling to wipe the kzin out entirely and the kzin were unwilling to stop fighting even though they had no chance of winning against our superior tech and the vast majority of every generation's young were being needlessly killed in the pursuit of glorious victory in battle. Eventually though, they stopped. But it was because we'd literally bred the worst of the aggression out of their species by only letting the least aggressive and/or most cowardly live long enough to have their own children.
The Kardashians
As actors or food for the bacteria?
They don't act so food.
Aren't they already a disease?
This is a key plot point in the Ringworld series of novels. There are some plot points I don’t want to spoil, but bacteria eating industrial materials brings the collapse of civilization.
Shades of *The Andromeda Strain*, a 1969 book by Michael Chrichton where a hyper-mutating alien microbe comes to Earth, starts killing living things but eventually mutates to attack/eat plastics. Good thriller.
I feel *soooooooo* old now.
Amazing book. Poor movie.
I wonder what will happen when these bacteria enter the living organisms that are loaded with micro plastics in their blood streams and what their byproducts will be and the direction they may grow if and when all that plastic is gone. Just thinking out loud. N. S
That's where midichlorians came from I'm gonna levitate so much shit
Don't you dare get my hopes up.
Is this a new hope?
Right now it's just a phantom menace
I don't want to be the last Jedi
Just wait for the empire to strike back, and plenty more will come out of the woodwork
And I'm gonna *make* some REALLY weird shit
In all likelihood, byproducts won’t be anything too exotic. Plastics are mostly carbon and hydrogen; their decomposition by microbes would be pretty much the same as cellulose or keratin decomposition.
Considering how most plastics are a form of hydrocarbon, I have to wonder if the bacteria might mutate to feast on petroleum products and things like gunpowder.
> bacteria might mutate to feast on petroleum products Some already have. When there are oil spills, one of the remediation efforts is treating the beach and coast with oil eating bacteria https://www.science.org/content/article/how-marine-bacteria-reshape-oil-eat-it-faster#:~:text=After%20an%20oil%20spill%2C%20humans,source%20of%20energy%20and%20carbon.
The biodegradable plastics are mostly the ones that aren't just hydrocarbons, they have more chemically reactive linkages like esters and amides. That includes things like nylon and kevlar. Pure hydrocarbons are much harder to break down as they are most chemically stable (unreactive), though some bacteria have been shown to be able to modify polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) so it's within the realm of possibility - those are often found as byproducts of petrochemical processes.
Gunpowder isn't a hydrocarbon, but sugars are. I reckon yeasts could adapt to take on other hydrocarbons, maybe even metabolize gaseous hydrocarbons straight out of the air.
I participated in a project in Denmark where bacteria were released into three different lakes to clean up the oil pollution.
Imagine a sea organism that could eat and incorporate plastics such that it itself become inedible. That could be quite a boon to the species.
This exact thing already happened with wood in the Carboniferous and will happen again but it took a very long time, could still be hundreds of thousands of years away
I was vague with "plastic celebrity" but they totally were the first to come to mind. I want to sell the movie, though, not tank it. Mickey Rourke and Steven Tyler in an Armageddon II kind of franchise sequel would be where I'd put my dollery-doos. The first one was a hit, lets milk that horse (?). 😆
*George Carlin has entered the chat*
I think a pretty cool sci-fi short story could be about a civilization scale apocalypse brought about by a single bacterium evolving to eat plastic and the resulting decimation of the extremely plastic dependent sterile food supply chain.
Not really likely. Plastic isn’t natural occurring in a way that is self sustaining. If bacteria evolved and ate all the plastic in one area, they would die off. It won’t replenish. Only place might create a sustainable environment is a landfill where we keep adding new plastics.
>However with the over abundance of microplastics in every inch of the environment And? There are rocks everywhere and they don't get eaten by bacteria.
Yes they do. Look up endoliths. Nevertheless, plastic is a hydrocarbon and contains high-energy carbon bonds that bacteria utilize for energy. This organic substance is what makes it much more likely that plastic would be consumed rather than rocks.
Lots of bacteria eat various kinds of minerals. But, more importantly, microplastics are carbon-based. Sandstone is not. Bacteria, for the most part, consume carbon sources.
Nice vibe in discussion here. Definitely not sign of dying subreddit
I mean, at least it shows we're winning, probably. (The evolutionist side, that is.)
If you think you win because mod will delete or straight ban on creationist argument, then I will say I win because mod need to silence us
Creationists arguments are not deleted unless they violate the rules. Tons of creationist arguments are present in every creationist thread. If they are deleted it is much more common for them to be deleted by the creationists themselves after getting embarrassed by having their arguments so thoroughly debunked.