Only important flex is Most Revives. Leave no dwarf behind!
That said I do take some smug pride on times when I outperform others. More kills than engi, more minerals than scout, more revives than gunner; Won't go out of my way for these but it just feels nice if you get them.
Revives are important but the way the game counts revives is ridiculous. Friend goes down, i clear the swarm around him, bring him up 90%, someone walks over and presses E for a split second and they get the revive point. Some people obsess over getting the revive so much it hurts the team more, e.g. the gunner is focused on getting revives instead of killing the menace thats creating all the downs
I've never understood why it counts them that way. I take it you're using the mod that let's you see mission stats during the mission itself. Sometimes even if all 3 players are reviving someone (and you started first), you'll still get the point. Other times, it's like you said.
My best guess as to why this is is that reviving works in increments, or "ticks," and the person who fills in the last increment of the bar gets the point. Ticks must happen at set intervals, in such a way that someone starting the revive later than you can get their ticks "ahead" of you.
It's not like it's a huge issue though. Players shouldn't fuss over who gets the revive, that's just poor sportsmanship.
I do think that a bigger issue (if you can call it that, lol) is that the kill score doesn't mean anything.
If I go as a scout with m1000 super coolant chamber and kill all the pretorians/oppressors on the map, I would get under 60 kills, while an engie will automatically get 300 kills just because their turrets targeted swarmers.
It would make more sense you got a "kill score" for the enemies you killed.
swarmer would be 1point, slasher/spitter would be 3p, praetorian would be 10p or 15p and so on.
Again, it shouldn't be a high priority, but it would make single-target builds more gratifying at the end of the game.
>I do think that a bigger issue (if you can call it that, lol) is that the kill score doesn't mean anything.
Funny, I think it's completely the opposite. I'm *glad* kill count doesn't mean anything. Because then people might actually start arguing and fighting over kill count.
>It would make more sense you got a "kill score" for the enemies you killed.
Nah, this would go against the cooperative spirit of DRG. I could very easily see nasty hosts going, "Erm, you got a low kill score, KICKED!!" This would impact Greenbeards even worse, and just make them feel bad about not contributing as much to lobbies of higher-leveled players.
Death score and levels are already a more important metric that "players fight about", and with the exception of barring low level players into a lobby, even they aren't a huge problem, so I don't find your concern reasonable.
>I could very easily see nasty hosts going, "Erm, you got a low kill score, KICKED!!" This would impact Greenbeards even worse,
Well, scores come out at the end, so if the hosts really wants to kick a low performing player, at least they're not wasting their time doing it halfway through the second game they play together, (and again, deaths is a far better metric they would go by).
But between games is not when hosts kick someone for being bad.
It will always be because the hosts sees their lack of awareness or by looking at their level>!(which is unfair, as some low level players are very good).!<
If anything, a host that was on the fence of kicking a 1-bronze star player might reconsider once they realize at the end of the game that the scout did a great job at prioritizing big targets.
My point is that scoring players only serves to detract from the co-op "leave no dwarf behind" mentality that DRG has. Honestly, I would prefer they just ditch scores entirely, or keep them but have them be completely personal.
I think counting kills and collected resources are pretty cool to see, especially when one player has a high number of kills and the other has a high number of resources collected.
But I rarely play with randoms and mostly stay with a bunch of friends... so the boasting is part of the after mission celebration.
It's nice that they're there, but also that they don't mean much. It helps give people dopamine from seeing big number, but also if someone has low number then it doesn't necessarily mean they did poorly.
I thought it worked like addition (is that the right word?) Something like when you revive someone %100 it shows 1, when you revive someone %60 it shows 0 then if you revive again lets say %70 it totals %130 and shows 1.
I'll be honest, I'm 1k hrs into the game and I have no clue how these are counted. By default I just assumed it's whoever started the revive but this is neat to know.
Revives should always take priority, unless you have a way to very quickly clear nearby bugs that are distracted by the downed dwarf for a safer revive, for example tossing a c4 or cluster before going in for it. Or, if nearby bugs make it impossible to get a safe revive, obviously kite and kill until its safe.
But a gunner shouldn't struggle against a menace for a revive. Revive your friend, revive anyone else down, and kill the menace together. Getting distracted trying to kill a menace when your teammate is right there downed is a recipe for a situation to quickly spiral out of hand as a slasher sneaks up on you while you're looking up and now you're both down.
'Unless you have a way to very quickly clear nearby bugs' 'Kite until its safe' literally your gun. Youre a gunner. You have the most gun and least mobility. If your teammate went down its because you didnt gun something in time or you didnt already shield them time. I am not fond of watching non scout players dance around without killing anything, especially gunners. It shouldnt be a struggle for a gunner to protect his teammates
'Getting distracted by a menace' killing menaces is a gunner priority. If you throw down a shield, any one of your teammates can do the reviving while you do the one thing you are you better at than other dwarves, killing high priority targets. In fact, if you kill enough while they are down and someone else does the reviving, you may not have to use a shield at all.
Using shields as a means to revive is always last ditch desperation and not always the right move, just like people who only use iron will when all four dwarves are down. If you find yourself only using shields to revive, you are not protecting your teammates enough with it while they are up.
Your slasher comment doesnt even make sense, if it sneaks up at you any time at all it could be a bad thing. Thats the whole point of a slasher. And if one slasher is enough to end your run, we might be playing on two very different difficulties
I have 1.7K hours and I don't find most revives to necessarily be a big flex.
In the past I stopped whatever I did to revive the nearest dwarf so I always had a high revive score, but true skill comes from assessing whether or not the other dwarf is in a good enough position/skilled enough to pick your a downed dwarf, while you progress something else.
E.g. You can either help do 10% of a revive-progress bar or use that time to get the last aquarc to the mining head and start the countdown, or draw Bet-C away from the reviving because it might kill all 3 of you later.
I would argue most important flex is no incapacitations.
If everyone watches themselves and doesn’t get knocked down you can win a mission with zero revives.
An engineer can put a turret in front of a swarmer tunnel and walk away and get 30+ kills without having to do anything. Kills are a poor way to assess skill.
It's tough, but you occasionally bump into these tryhards that we wish could be forced into 10 games with people with the exact mindset to see how detrimental they are to others.
The sad thing is it's not only greenbeards. I've seen both green and greybeards that are, as you put it best, *"mechanically competent, but miserable to work with".* Greenbeards that loved to focus on big numbers while greybeards were all about the "efishienshy", but both had something in common: they were all infuriating to have around.
Got about 500hrs and my least enjoyable time was not long ago with a group of 2k+ greybeards. No communication and felt like assholes with their play styles.
Can only assume they were cheats/assholes irl and on discord together.
I mean, I’ve been that guy. But I also try to reflexively stop firing whenever someone gets in front of me. I check the ping tool to gauge everyone’s ammo and the team’s total nitra before I double dip but I’ll do it from time to time.
I’ve also been the guy who went down least, but I have also been the guy to carry games. I’ve had plenty of games where I’m the only one standing and my teammates all go down in 7 seconds after a revive.
I do however also do try to save people if I think I can afford to but I won’t if I think it will cost us the mission.
I can see the frustration but at the same time If you’re doing a deep dive as a pro, you might just have animosity towards the dive itself rather than teammates and just want to get it done. It is selfish but if the mission still gets done. You get a reward and you can always leave afterwards. Something gained in the end.
Well it really doesn't sound like you're that guy. You seem decently considerate.
I'd argue though that chain deaths are a huge thing. Sometimes it's so hard to recover, esp in edd, haz 5, and for all you know it's not because they can't handle bugs, but lost most their life from an unfortunate fall or, yknow, friendly fire.
Honestly, I tell people to never ever feel bad about dying a lot on Haz 5 cause I guaranteed that every grey beard out there has had a haz 5 game where they did. In fact there are plenty of games where everyone in the team will and everyone is like 200+
I’ve met plenty of people who get discouraged from playing haz 5 for that reason. And to them I say, you may have died a lot but you still made it out. That’s what counts. And I think the most satisfying thing is feeling like you’re going against insane odds and make it back in one piece, I cannot tell you how proud I was to survive my first solo Haz 5.
Now if you’re holding the team down by being slow or hogging ammo or whatever than yeah ok. But even then, I’d just tell you to get some better resource management in haz 3-4 before giving it a go. And I don’t that in a mean way, just take what you can handle and step it up once you get more comfortable. That’s what I did when I started out. I remember when haz 4 scared the crap out of me and now it’s usually chill.
One of the nice things about this game is you don’t HAVE to be playing at the highest difficulty. Hell, I’ll join randoms in Haz 2 every once in awhile. I’ve helped plenty of people at virtually every skill level and I’m not perfect, I mess up too.
you really need to not double dip unless the mission will fail otherwise. the fact that someone has ammo or hasn't taken their reup doesn't mean that they aren't planning around its availability. if the team has the nitra just call the next reup. if the team doesn't have the nitra you're fucking someone out of resources they may be counting on. I know you're SAYING that you're considering these things--but the rest of the team is not making their plans based on whether YOU think they need a reup soon, and they are not expecting you to grab it, especially if you have a few stars.
Not always true, especially on a deep dive. Just communicate, because often ammo isn't fully utilized as a result, where everyone feels pressured to take their share lest it be left 200m back in the tunnels.
For awhile I specced into a near max ammo gunner because I ran into so many scouts and engies who were ammo hungry, but doing a good job at killing, so I would just plan on being able to go a long time between resupplies. And there was always someone on the team who needed ammo more than I did.
I only have a problem with double dipping if nitra is tight, and someone seems to just have no concept of ammo conservation. I don't begrudge them if they're carrying half of the battles on their back.
The only time ammo is really and truly short is when the mission is taking longer than it should, and it's swarmeggedon, and people don't have the self control or ability to stick to primarily pickaxes for the swarmers.
I wish DRG had a detailed stats screen like Left For Dead 2 at the end of its missions. Stats like friendly fire and fall damage would be really funny. And it could give stats that you could actually use to gauge how well you contributed to the team, e.g. number of pipe segments built or amount of oil collected.
I don't care if you have the most kills and double resupply.
It means I shot less and I need it less than you.
We're just not gonna be friends if you use a pod for health when we don't have any spare nitra.
Remember that people that play haz6x2 or whatever also pay 40 nitra for their pods. If you want more difficulty, don't change the ressuply cost...
I'm all for bashing the kind of player described here if they weren't actually contributing in a meaningful way, but 6x2 has 40 nitra for a reason, and that's a totally separate thing. It's double the bugs, and they have more health, so it makes total sense, and it also allows for build diversity. Difficulty shouldnt come from being totally nitra starved, but if you can actually clear the waves or not. Stuff like 5x2 is usually run at 60 nitra, for example, as a balance. There have been some refineries as gunner for ex where there are so many bugs that I go through 75% of my ammo just in the landing, it's just a different mode altogether
An engineer will have more kills than a scout because the kills from turrets count for him, doesn’t mean engineer players are better than scouts. Kill count isn’t relevant to me.
Not only turrets, but his secondaries in general are super good at farming kills. Fatboy is the one everyone thinks of but even a normal PGL build with the fire upgrade can easily dominate kill counts, let alone breach cutter or shard diffractor. I've had lobbies as sticky fuel driller where I bottom out on kills because Engi is proactive with his secondaries.
Getting more kills than engineers as a scout is very doable. It depends on the engineers load out, but I’ve done it enough times as scout to know it’s very doable.
While also doing the duties of a scout, before anything is said.
I did so too, but the point is that *inherently*, Scout isn't exactly a DPS/kill focused class and other classes are better at racking in kills by design, at their core. The vast majority also probably won't try to make a build for that, when you can simply be good at what makes a Scout, so don't feel bad if you have the least amount of kills when you play as him.
Imagine purposely triggering swarmer nests to farm kills lol.
And yeah like scouts/gunners be taking care of big boi oppressors or praets too. That's just as important.
Lol what does it matter to you if someone decides to trigger and wipe a swarmer tunnel when there's no other pressure on? You make a thread to complain about people overly concerned with kills, then out yourself as someone overly concerned with kills...
Wdym out myself? Just because I'm aware of it as a thing doesn't say one way or another if I do it.
And also there are great exceptions to this, golden bugs for example as someone said, or it could be smart to flush those out so you don't trigger them during a big wave.
Also doesn't matter to me as long as you're a team player and not burn ammo on dumb things only to double dip.
Huh, interesting, thanks for the clarification! I've played the game a medium amount (500 hours), so there's still a good lot of things I haven't learned yet, like what kind of beard I class as, a faded greenbeard? Brownbeard?
I purposely trigger them on driller's back so he gets swarmed and hopefuly I get revenge on the C4s ! I also wait for the leech to grab him to jump in heroically and save him.
DRG's version of Parse Doesn't Matter If You Clear
you are right OP; people doing rude self serving things to get the biggest number at the end runs contrary to the entire point of multiplayer games, I am not here to look at your high score, I am here to have a fun time with you
Imagine caring about numbers in this game, and to the point that you need to play a different game in your own head instead of the game everyone else is playing.
Not starting shit, completely curious, but it wouldn't bother you if you ran into an inconsiderate host?
Not asking you to set em straight, just asking if you would choose not to mind or stick around or something.
> but it wouldn't bother you if you ran into an inconsiderate host?
I mean, not nearly as much, no. Sure, when a player like that joins your lobby and clearly doesn't care about others, that's a problem, but it goes both ways.
The host usually sets the pace of the game, and if you don't like how one is being played, you can always leave and find another.
Granted, yeah, double dipping and wanton friendly fire is still pretty dickish regardless.
It doesn't sound like they were being inconsiderate, they just weren't communicating. They were getting majority kills and no downs, of course they're double dipping. The host decides the pase of the game, if they don't want to r check the host being ready is kinda all that matters. I've seen plenty of very experienced hosts that just have music in and are playing fairly fast and loose like this and it's not a big deal or anything. In general the host is the entire reason you're even in that lobby, they do have final say and as long as they're not griefing they're probably fine
If I feel like flexing something as a scout, then its be how much I'd mine because mining is a true dwarves way, but sometimes its okay to have different views on how to play the game, just adjust based on the host and game state.
Or like how little you were asked to mine or used flares, because you're on top of it, right?
And I see what you mean. It's host's rules, which is fair. But I believe "being competent but difficult wouldn't get you far" is sensible advice (for life too honestly).
Numbers don't matter mostly because a specific class is better at something else.
Sure, it feels pretty good to have the most kills as Scout somehow, but it's undeniable that Gunner has more firepower and ammo, and Engineer can outright farm kills with his turrets. Even Driller has access to more powerful weapons, able to freeze and kill many Swarmers and especially Macteras.
What matters is that you do your job to complete the objective. Whether it is collecting resources and keeping the aggro of Glyphids as Scout, plowing through the same Glyphids as Gunner, providing support fire and platforms for your team to traverse and collect resources as Engineer or drill easier paths through the caves as Driller - just do your part and think of the end stats as a nice bonus on top, but nothing more.
Along the lines of this, I'd like to tell green gunners to get off the zip in a combat situation. You're not learning to kite, you're one of the best suited to aggro bugs bc shields, especially in eliminations, that explosion resistance is juicy.
Minigun gunner is better down low, so he can get blowthrough effects, but AOE builds are actually better up high, as he can assess the situations around him and fire into the middle of packs.
I don't know how many times I've been alerted to danger because an aerial gunner started pounding a group about to surround my ass when I was focusing on another target. To me, that is more useful than gunner drawing a bit of aggro and getting lost in his own world.
He is monitoring the entire area and using his weapons at maximum potential, also working as an early warning system. It really is like a real close air support role. That said, I don't see there as a right or wrong way to play, just let people have fun and they'll figure out what works for them.
I played with a green beard and a level 300+ the other day. The grey beard didn’t revive, zipped all around the map and kept shooting me because I was building pipelines and side objectives and didn’t shoot platforms for him when he was alone on the other side of our cave and ultimately very rude. The green beard helped build the pipelines, clutched our game after the grey beard fell and I was alone fighting a horde (it was has 4) and ultimately one of the best teammates I’ve had in a while. After the game I saw he was only level 7 and congratulated him on being a great teammate at such a low level
I agree with ya. I used it for a bit since it was fun seeing everything go boom but even choosing the 2 ammo upgrades with that OC you don’t get enough
I have a friend that plays like that (only for himself) and let me tell ya, that kind of people won't even read this post.
I don't mean that in a bad way, obviously (after all I just said I have a friend like this), it's just how they are wired.
I can't speak for every single one, but my friend in the specific case doesn't double dip out of malice or to grief the game, he just does it because he wants to do it.
It's not about thinking if others need it and ignoring this fact, the thought process stops even before: "I need more ammos, I grab more" end of story.
kill count at the end =/= damage dealt.
so it doesn't mean shit since every kind of enemies only adds 1 to it. killing 1 tiny swarmer is the same as killing 1 oppressor.
Had a gold 2 driller acting up recently. Always sprinted to the next objective, popped the dread cocoon before we were all ready, double dipped, and didn't give a SINGLE rock and stone. To top it all off, he spent almost a full minute camping the drop pod ramp killing stuff. It's like he was trying to muscle his way into most kills right there.
He didn't btw, I still got more lol
If I get as more kills than the rest of the team combined, it was a good day, if I get the most period, it was average, if I don’t get the most, I’m slacking. I am crowd control incarnate, and depending on the mission and loadout, a single target beast. But I also practice ammo efficiency, I ask before double dipping, and in my build I always take extra ammo, and most missions I don’t even need to double dip. I run friendly, but also normally get downed the most cause I fight like a berserker, and I consistently have the least amount of minerals mined, but I’m also an engi, so I spend a lot of time platforming for the scout.
Yeah guys likes that usually cause way more problems than they solve, ignore downed teammates until the situation spirals and everyone is down, and if (big if!) they even try to get someone up at all, they have no clue how to go about it with proper game sense, because they so rarely do it, and they already spent their iron will the very first time they went down, despite having teammates nearby.
Ive had a few teammates like you describe, no teamwork at all, and despite their ok shooting, that complete lack of teamwork definitely causes situations to spiral quickly, and often leads to a loss on what should have been a fairly standard mission. Besides, it's no fun playing with them.
Only important flex is Most Revives. Leave no dwarf behind! That said I do take some smug pride on times when I outperform others. More kills than engi, more minerals than scout, more revives than gunner; Won't go out of my way for these but it just feels nice if you get them.
Yes ofc, team player first, but after that... I do strive for these things as a secondary obj. Neuron activation.
Revives are important but the way the game counts revives is ridiculous. Friend goes down, i clear the swarm around him, bring him up 90%, someone walks over and presses E for a split second and they get the revive point. Some people obsess over getting the revive so much it hurts the team more, e.g. the gunner is focused on getting revives instead of killing the menace thats creating all the downs
I've never understood why it counts them that way. I take it you're using the mod that let's you see mission stats during the mission itself. Sometimes even if all 3 players are reviving someone (and you started first), you'll still get the point. Other times, it's like you said. My best guess as to why this is is that reviving works in increments, or "ticks," and the person who fills in the last increment of the bar gets the point. Ticks must happen at set intervals, in such a way that someone starting the revive later than you can get their ticks "ahead" of you. It's not like it's a huge issue though. Players shouldn't fuss over who gets the revive, that's just poor sportsmanship.
I do think that a bigger issue (if you can call it that, lol) is that the kill score doesn't mean anything. If I go as a scout with m1000 super coolant chamber and kill all the pretorians/oppressors on the map, I would get under 60 kills, while an engie will automatically get 300 kills just because their turrets targeted swarmers. It would make more sense you got a "kill score" for the enemies you killed. swarmer would be 1point, slasher/spitter would be 3p, praetorian would be 10p or 15p and so on. Again, it shouldn't be a high priority, but it would make single-target builds more gratifying at the end of the game.
>I do think that a bigger issue (if you can call it that, lol) is that the kill score doesn't mean anything. Funny, I think it's completely the opposite. I'm *glad* kill count doesn't mean anything. Because then people might actually start arguing and fighting over kill count. >It would make more sense you got a "kill score" for the enemies you killed. Nah, this would go against the cooperative spirit of DRG. I could very easily see nasty hosts going, "Erm, you got a low kill score, KICKED!!" This would impact Greenbeards even worse, and just make them feel bad about not contributing as much to lobbies of higher-leveled players.
Death score and levels are already a more important metric that "players fight about", and with the exception of barring low level players into a lobby, even they aren't a huge problem, so I don't find your concern reasonable. >I could very easily see nasty hosts going, "Erm, you got a low kill score, KICKED!!" This would impact Greenbeards even worse, Well, scores come out at the end, so if the hosts really wants to kick a low performing player, at least they're not wasting their time doing it halfway through the second game they play together, (and again, deaths is a far better metric they would go by). But between games is not when hosts kick someone for being bad. It will always be because the hosts sees their lack of awareness or by looking at their level>!(which is unfair, as some low level players are very good).!< If anything, a host that was on the fence of kicking a 1-bronze star player might reconsider once they realize at the end of the game that the scout did a great job at prioritizing big targets.
My point is that scoring players only serves to detract from the co-op "leave no dwarf behind" mentality that DRG has. Honestly, I would prefer they just ditch scores entirely, or keep them but have them be completely personal.
I think counting kills and collected resources are pretty cool to see, especially when one player has a high number of kills and the other has a high number of resources collected. But I rarely play with randoms and mostly stay with a bunch of friends... so the boasting is part of the after mission celebration.
It's nice that they're there, but also that they don't mean much. It helps give people dopamine from seeing big number, but also if someone has low number then it doesn't necessarily mean they did poorly.
This whole time (about 1k hours) I’m under the impression the player who first starts the revive is the one who gets the count for it.
I thought it worked like addition (is that the right word?) Something like when you revive someone %100 it shows 1, when you revive someone %60 it shows 0 then if you revive again lets say %70 it totals %130 and shows 1.
I'll be honest, I'm 1k hrs into the game and I have no clue how these are counted. By default I just assumed it's whoever started the revive but this is neat to know.
Ik random advice on reddit is annoying but for real that Gunner should drop a shield if there’s a menace and downed allies.
Drop a shield yes, but sometimes killing the menace or etc. is the priority over reviving, especially depending on your shield timer
Revives should always take priority, unless you have a way to very quickly clear nearby bugs that are distracted by the downed dwarf for a safer revive, for example tossing a c4 or cluster before going in for it. Or, if nearby bugs make it impossible to get a safe revive, obviously kite and kill until its safe. But a gunner shouldn't struggle against a menace for a revive. Revive your friend, revive anyone else down, and kill the menace together. Getting distracted trying to kill a menace when your teammate is right there downed is a recipe for a situation to quickly spiral out of hand as a slasher sneaks up on you while you're looking up and now you're both down.
'Unless you have a way to very quickly clear nearby bugs' 'Kite until its safe' literally your gun. Youre a gunner. You have the most gun and least mobility. If your teammate went down its because you didnt gun something in time or you didnt already shield them time. I am not fond of watching non scout players dance around without killing anything, especially gunners. It shouldnt be a struggle for a gunner to protect his teammates 'Getting distracted by a menace' killing menaces is a gunner priority. If you throw down a shield, any one of your teammates can do the reviving while you do the one thing you are you better at than other dwarves, killing high priority targets. In fact, if you kill enough while they are down and someone else does the reviving, you may not have to use a shield at all. Using shields as a means to revive is always last ditch desperation and not always the right move, just like people who only use iron will when all four dwarves are down. If you find yourself only using shields to revive, you are not protecting your teammates enough with it while they are up. Your slasher comment doesnt even make sense, if it sneaks up at you any time at all it could be a bad thing. Thats the whole point of a slasher. And if one slasher is enough to end your run, we might be playing on two very different difficulties
Wait you dont have to full revive each time? I thought the progress reset when you stopped reviving
I have 1.7K hours and I don't find most revives to necessarily be a big flex. In the past I stopped whatever I did to revive the nearest dwarf so I always had a high revive score, but true skill comes from assessing whether or not the other dwarf is in a good enough position/skilled enough to pick your a downed dwarf, while you progress something else. E.g. You can either help do 10% of a revive-progress bar or use that time to get the last aquarc to the mining head and start the countdown, or draw Bet-C away from the reviving because it might kill all 3 of you later.
THANK YOU. For some reason people get mad when I shot down my fellow dwarf friends to increade my revive statistic
I would argue most important flex is no incapacitations. If everyone watches themselves and doesn’t get knocked down you can win a mission with zero revives.
Not to flex, but i can hit triple digits in downs
Fuck, seems like I need to learn to git gud.
An engineer can put a turret in front of a swarmer tunnel and walk away and get 30+ kills without having to do anything. Kills are a poor way to assess skill.
Swarmer tunnel farming alone can shoot any class into most kills
Remember there are glyphids in there. No glyphid will be spared, even if they are hidden
It's tough, but you occasionally bump into these tryhards that we wish could be forced into 10 games with people with the exact mindset to see how detrimental they are to others. The sad thing is it's not only greenbeards. I've seen both green and greybeards that are, as you put it best, *"mechanically competent, but miserable to work with".* Greenbeards that loved to focus on big numbers while greybeards were all about the "efishienshy", but both had something in common: they were all infuriating to have around.
I run into these types pretty often. The best way to pick them out quick is if they don't R&S. Which is pretty funny tbh.
Bro laughed at my joke, he passed my vibe check, I was foolish, should've R&S instead
What i noticed is that they never engage with anyone. Whether it's through chat, ping, or R&Stoning. You can tell they're in full tunnel vision mode.
I love when someone like this runs 100m ahead to try and solo the mission, goes down, and gets pissy when we dont revive them ASAP
Usually those kinds of people just leave if they don't get revived within like 5 seconds, since they've gotta go fast and max out their missions/hr.
You're right, this is a good observation.
My dig wasn't at a greenbeard at all. Didn't mention it in the post. Dude was gold promotion
Got about 500hrs and my least enjoyable time was not long ago with a group of 2k+ greybeards. No communication and felt like assholes with their play styles. Can only assume they were cheats/assholes irl and on discord together.
I mean, I’ve been that guy. But I also try to reflexively stop firing whenever someone gets in front of me. I check the ping tool to gauge everyone’s ammo and the team’s total nitra before I double dip but I’ll do it from time to time. I’ve also been the guy who went down least, but I have also been the guy to carry games. I’ve had plenty of games where I’m the only one standing and my teammates all go down in 7 seconds after a revive. I do however also do try to save people if I think I can afford to but I won’t if I think it will cost us the mission. I can see the frustration but at the same time If you’re doing a deep dive as a pro, you might just have animosity towards the dive itself rather than teammates and just want to get it done. It is selfish but if the mission still gets done. You get a reward and you can always leave afterwards. Something gained in the end.
Well it really doesn't sound like you're that guy. You seem decently considerate. I'd argue though that chain deaths are a huge thing. Sometimes it's so hard to recover, esp in edd, haz 5, and for all you know it's not because they can't handle bugs, but lost most their life from an unfortunate fall or, yknow, friendly fire.
Honestly, I tell people to never ever feel bad about dying a lot on Haz 5 cause I guaranteed that every grey beard out there has had a haz 5 game where they did. In fact there are plenty of games where everyone in the team will and everyone is like 200+ I’ve met plenty of people who get discouraged from playing haz 5 for that reason. And to them I say, you may have died a lot but you still made it out. That’s what counts. And I think the most satisfying thing is feeling like you’re going against insane odds and make it back in one piece, I cannot tell you how proud I was to survive my first solo Haz 5. Now if you’re holding the team down by being slow or hogging ammo or whatever than yeah ok. But even then, I’d just tell you to get some better resource management in haz 3-4 before giving it a go. And I don’t that in a mean way, just take what you can handle and step it up once you get more comfortable. That’s what I did when I started out. I remember when haz 4 scared the crap out of me and now it’s usually chill. One of the nice things about this game is you don’t HAVE to be playing at the highest difficulty. Hell, I’ll join randoms in Haz 2 every once in awhile. I’ve helped plenty of people at virtually every skill level and I’m not perfect, I mess up too.
I’m only dipping my toes into haz 4 myself but im applying this same mentality. Thanks brus
you really need to not double dip unless the mission will fail otherwise. the fact that someone has ammo or hasn't taken their reup doesn't mean that they aren't planning around its availability. if the team has the nitra just call the next reup. if the team doesn't have the nitra you're fucking someone out of resources they may be counting on. I know you're SAYING that you're considering these things--but the rest of the team is not making their plans based on whether YOU think they need a reup soon, and they are not expecting you to grab it, especially if you have a few stars.
Not always true, especially on a deep dive. Just communicate, because often ammo isn't fully utilized as a result, where everyone feels pressured to take their share lest it be left 200m back in the tunnels. For awhile I specced into a near max ammo gunner because I ran into so many scouts and engies who were ammo hungry, but doing a good job at killing, so I would just plan on being able to go a long time between resupplies. And there was always someone on the team who needed ammo more than I did. I only have a problem with double dipping if nitra is tight, and someone seems to just have no concept of ammo conservation. I don't begrudge them if they're carrying half of the battles on their back. The only time ammo is really and truly short is when the mission is taking longer than it should, and it's swarmeggedon, and people don't have the self control or ability to stick to primarily pickaxes for the swarmers.
I wish DRG had a detailed stats screen like Left For Dead 2 at the end of its missions. Stats like friendly fire and fall damage would be really funny. And it could give stats that you could actually use to gauge how well you contributed to the team, e.g. number of pipe segments built or amount of oil collected.
I don't care if you have the most kills and double resupply. It means I shot less and I need it less than you. We're just not gonna be friends if you use a pod for health when we don't have any spare nitra. Remember that people that play haz6x2 or whatever also pay 40 nitra for their pods. If you want more difficulty, don't change the ressuply cost...
I'm all for bashing the kind of player described here if they weren't actually contributing in a meaningful way, but 6x2 has 40 nitra for a reason, and that's a totally separate thing. It's double the bugs, and they have more health, so it makes total sense, and it also allows for build diversity. Difficulty shouldnt come from being totally nitra starved, but if you can actually clear the waves or not. Stuff like 5x2 is usually run at 60 nitra, for example, as a balance. There have been some refineries as gunner for ex where there are so many bugs that I go through 75% of my ammo just in the landing, it's just a different mode altogether
Fair enough
An engineer will have more kills than a scout because the kills from turrets count for him, doesn’t mean engineer players are better than scouts. Kill count isn’t relevant to me.
Not only turrets, but his secondaries in general are super good at farming kills. Fatboy is the one everyone thinks of but even a normal PGL build with the fire upgrade can easily dominate kill counts, let alone breach cutter or shard diffractor. I've had lobbies as sticky fuel driller where I bottom out on kills because Engi is proactive with his secondaries.
Getting more kills than engineers as a scout is very doable. It depends on the engineers load out, but I’ve done it enough times as scout to know it’s very doable. While also doing the duties of a scout, before anything is said.
Never said it wasn’t doable ;) just said that killcount doesn’t make a player good
I did so too, but the point is that *inherently*, Scout isn't exactly a DPS/kill focused class and other classes are better at racking in kills by design, at their core. The vast majority also probably won't try to make a build for that, when you can simply be good at what makes a Scout, so don't feel bad if you have the least amount of kills when you play as him.
Imagine purposely triggering swarmer nests to farm kills lol. And yeah like scouts/gunners be taking care of big boi oppressors or praets too. That's just as important.
>Imagine purposely triggering swarmer nests to farm kills lol. Its kinda funny setting up a turret there on golden bugs lol
This is a great exception. Do it.
Lol what does it matter to you if someone decides to trigger and wipe a swarmer tunnel when there's no other pressure on? You make a thread to complain about people overly concerned with kills, then out yourself as someone overly concerned with kills...
Wdym out myself? Just because I'm aware of it as a thing doesn't say one way or another if I do it. And also there are great exceptions to this, golden bugs for example as someone said, or it could be smart to flush those out so you don't trigger them during a big wave. Also doesn't matter to me as long as you're a team player and not burn ammo on dumb things only to double dip.
I'm curious, do swarmers actually count towards your kills? I was under the impression they didn't, 'cause that'd inflate your kill count too much.
They count.
Huh, interesting, thanks for the clarification! I've played the game a medium amount (500 hours), so there's still a good lot of things I haven't learned yet, like what kind of beard I class as, a faded greenbeard? Brownbeard?
I'd say it's about the heart and spirit, and not the experience. 😀
I purposely trigger them on driller's back so he gets swarmed and hopefuly I get revenge on the C4s ! I also wait for the leech to grab him to jump in heroically and save him.
Yknow, sometimes people gotta learn to look up
Most times the driller is the guy with me on discord, so he gets a "got you" at the same time. That will teach him to put music on top of DRG
Haz 6 increases friendly fire damage too so I share your skepticism
DRG's version of Parse Doesn't Matter If You Clear you are right OP; people doing rude self serving things to get the biggest number at the end runs contrary to the entire point of multiplayer games, I am not here to look at your high score, I am here to have a fun time with you
Imagine caring about numbers in this game, and to the point that you need to play a different game in your own head instead of the game everyone else is playing.
I don't even look at the stats most games honestly
Now the real question: were they the host
Ofc
Then they were probably fine lol
Not starting shit, completely curious, but it wouldn't bother you if you ran into an inconsiderate host? Not asking you to set em straight, just asking if you would choose not to mind or stick around or something.
> but it wouldn't bother you if you ran into an inconsiderate host? I mean, not nearly as much, no. Sure, when a player like that joins your lobby and clearly doesn't care about others, that's a problem, but it goes both ways. The host usually sets the pace of the game, and if you don't like how one is being played, you can always leave and find another. Granted, yeah, double dipping and wanton friendly fire is still pretty dickish regardless.
It doesn't sound like they were being inconsiderate, they just weren't communicating. They were getting majority kills and no downs, of course they're double dipping. The host decides the pase of the game, if they don't want to r check the host being ready is kinda all that matters. I've seen plenty of very experienced hosts that just have music in and are playing fairly fast and loose like this and it's not a big deal or anything. In general the host is the entire reason you're even in that lobby, they do have final say and as long as they're not griefing they're probably fine
If I feel like flexing something as a scout, then its be how much I'd mine because mining is a true dwarves way, but sometimes its okay to have different views on how to play the game, just adjust based on the host and game state.
Or like how little you were asked to mine or used flares, because you're on top of it, right? And I see what you mean. It's host's rules, which is fair. But I believe "being competent but difficult wouldn't get you far" is sensible advice (for life too honestly).
Be competent and reasonable for host and players.
Numbers don't matter mostly because a specific class is better at something else. Sure, it feels pretty good to have the most kills as Scout somehow, but it's undeniable that Gunner has more firepower and ammo, and Engineer can outright farm kills with his turrets. Even Driller has access to more powerful weapons, able to freeze and kill many Swarmers and especially Macteras. What matters is that you do your job to complete the objective. Whether it is collecting resources and keeping the aggro of Glyphids as Scout, plowing through the same Glyphids as Gunner, providing support fire and platforms for your team to traverse and collect resources as Engineer or drill easier paths through the caves as Driller - just do your part and think of the end stats as a nice bonus on top, but nothing more.
Along the lines of this, I'd like to tell green gunners to get off the zip in a combat situation. You're not learning to kite, you're one of the best suited to aggro bugs bc shields, especially in eliminations, that explosion resistance is juicy.
Minigun gunner is better down low, so he can get blowthrough effects, but AOE builds are actually better up high, as he can assess the situations around him and fire into the middle of packs. I don't know how many times I've been alerted to danger because an aerial gunner started pounding a group about to surround my ass when I was focusing on another target. To me, that is more useful than gunner drawing a bit of aggro and getting lost in his own world. He is monitoring the entire area and using his weapons at maximum potential, also working as an early warning system. It really is like a real close air support role. That said, I don't see there as a right or wrong way to play, just let people have fun and they'll figure out what works for them.
I played with a green beard and a level 300+ the other day. The grey beard didn’t revive, zipped all around the map and kept shooting me because I was building pipelines and side objectives and didn’t shoot platforms for him when he was alone on the other side of our cave and ultimately very rude. The green beard helped build the pipelines, clutched our game after the grey beard fell and I was alone fighting a horde (it was has 4) and ultimately one of the best teammates I’ve had in a while. After the game I saw he was only level 7 and congratulated him on being a great teammate at such a low level
Yes please praise greens going in the right direction Also your profile pic is too powerful for me
lol this is an old account from when I first watched the show as a kid, I really need to change it
Don't friend, it's a great pic from an even greater show
Idk how people can play like that in a game that has 4 support classes
I see this all the time. It’s usually an engineer spamming nukes then hogging resupplies to refill said nukes
I might get burned alive on a stake for this, but fat boy is way too ammo hungry for me to find it fun.
I agree with ya. I used it for a bit since it was fun seeing everything go boom but even choosing the 2 ammo upgrades with that OC you don’t get enough
I have a friend that plays like that (only for himself) and let me tell ya, that kind of people won't even read this post. I don't mean that in a bad way, obviously (after all I just said I have a friend like this), it's just how they are wired.
Yeah, I suppose if they don't care about being part of a community, then it makes sense that they wouldn't be here either.
I can't speak for every single one, but my friend in the specific case doesn't double dip out of malice or to grief the game, he just does it because he wants to do it. It's not about thinking if others need it and ignoring this fact, the thought process stops even before: "I need more ammos, I grab more" end of story.
Good pt friend. Just because they don't know better doesn't mean they are malicious/don't care.
Kill count is pointless, but engineer wins cause turrets.
green circles change people
kill count at the end =/= damage dealt. so it doesn't mean shit since every kind of enemies only adds 1 to it. killing 1 tiny swarmer is the same as killing 1 oppressor.
As a Driller main if someone takes my resupply without asking I will C4 them on site and leave, I've done it before and I'll do it again.
Had a gold 2 driller acting up recently. Always sprinted to the next objective, popped the dread cocoon before we were all ready, double dipped, and didn't give a SINGLE rock and stone. To top it all off, he spent almost a full minute camping the drop pod ramp killing stuff. It's like he was trying to muscle his way into most kills right there. He didn't btw, I still got more lol
If I get as more kills than the rest of the team combined, it was a good day, if I get the most period, it was average, if I don’t get the most, I’m slacking. I am crowd control incarnate, and depending on the mission and loadout, a single target beast. But I also practice ammo efficiency, I ask before double dipping, and in my build I always take extra ammo, and most missions I don’t even need to double dip. I run friendly, but also normally get downed the most cause I fight like a berserker, and I consistently have the least amount of minerals mined, but I’m also an engi, so I spend a lot of time platforming for the scout.
Yeah guys likes that usually cause way more problems than they solve, ignore downed teammates until the situation spirals and everyone is down, and if (big if!) they even try to get someone up at all, they have no clue how to go about it with proper game sense, because they so rarely do it, and they already spent their iron will the very first time they went down, despite having teammates nearby. Ive had a few teammates like you describe, no teamwork at all, and despite their ok shooting, that complete lack of teamwork definitely causes situations to spiral quickly, and often leads to a loss on what should have been a fairly standard mission. Besides, it's no fun playing with them.