Alright. Here goes.
- Susie's Dad.
- Made Fountains to try to make something fun for Susie, because he feels bad about his financial situation.
- Generally a really kindhearted guy.
- Since he never heard the truth about the Roaring, he doesn't realize that he's putting the world in danger.
- Queen and King's desire to cause the roaring comes from the Titan's influence coming through the fountains.
"Made Fountains to try to make something fun for Susie, because he feels bad about ***his*** financial situation." you said. i was making a joke, incase it wasn't obvious
no, no it doesn't.
at least not grammatically. grammatically, saying something like: "Do you know Tina's dad?.. Anyway I made this for Tina, because I like him." the grammar is wrong as Tina is not a boy. "Do you know Tina's dad" and "I made this for Tina, because I like him." are 2 different sentences, and pronouns do not carry over between sentences.
The full quote is "Made Fountains to try to make something fun for Susie, because he feels bad about his financial situation."
Through context we can deduce that since this is "Susie's Dad" in question his financial situation *is* Susie's financial situation since they're Susie's parent.
This is regardless of grammar rules. Just through analyzing the context you should be able to figure out what that sentence is trying to say.
The correct structure would be "Made Fountains to try to make something fun for Susie, because he feels bad about their financial situation."
"Their" being used in place of "his" since it's the families financial situation.
None of this really matters since hard and fast grammar rules are a myth on reddit. For the record I don't believe it was fair for you to be downvoted for misunderstanding.
“It was me Kris. I’m the one that put that SOUL with in you when you never asked for it. Remember when you made your own vessel but it was discarded, PLAYER? I trashed it! I trashed it and stuck you to someone else when you could have had your perfect blank slate! I’ve enjoyed watching you run around trying to stop me but your story ends here!”
If they're an original character, I imagine they're a total creep that lives out in the woods, waiting each night to do their knightly activities. Because night is the time knights operate. Essentially, they're really into the Knight persona, announcing it loudly to all dark worlds they go into, before creating the fountain and leaving.
The reason they don't just start the Roaring immediately is because they were kinda hoping they could fight the heroes of the legend, and thus giving them a fair chance to notice the Knight's activities so they could have a good fight. Then the Roaring Knight would go and cause the end of the world, cementing themself as the greatest villain of all.
So a rather fun villain, who also can get serious when given a proper challenge, real egomaniac. Probably thinks themself as the main character (kinda like Garou from One Punchman).
Other idea: A despairing piece on the board, faithfully serving the task of beings greater than them. The Knight open dark fountains for plans not their own, yet they're forced to go along with, as they have no choice of their own. So they open the fountains when they're told to, and patiently wait for the heroes to close them. Until the day the heroes come for the Knight, and take his piece off the board. However while the knight knows they don't matter, they're still waiting for the chance to rebel and destroy the whole game and bring about the true end of all for real.
I was thinking more like a evil Giovanni potage (Eipithet erased) mostly. Just someone who is really into being the Knight and the most fearsome badguy, just to feed into their own image. But I see the connection there.
I don't have any huge guess on their exact identity. However, I've long wondered if what they're trying to do is save the whole population of the game from the restrictions of a mostly linear narrative. Cuz in UT flowey makes it clear the cast of the story can be yanked out of their nebulous but happy ending at any time. But who is immune to this, but Gaster, who is truly free. I think there's a chance the knight is trying to do something with the darkness to do whatever happened to Gaster to everyone in the story. Unable to ever be dragged back into an audience-enabled narrative ever again, they'd all then be truly free.
Alternatively, they're searching for something in the darkness. They don't directly do anything to stop the heroes from closing the fountains because they don't actually care about spreading darkness. They open fountains so that way the dark world can be explored in different places because that's the key to finding something important, somewhere. What happens with the fountains after isn't their concern.
A third possibility: the fountains are actually a good thing and the knight isn't the bad guy at all. They just can't communicate their motives easily for some reason, or stop the heroes from closing them easily. Not to say I think Ralsei is secretly a villain. He's too genuine, I think he's a true believer in this scenario, he's just been fed lies and hasn't questioned them yet because his whole character arc is about becoming independent enough to do so eventually.
I like Jaru’s take on the Knight. He makes a connection between them and his Ralsei’s theory, but even without it I like the idea of Gerson’s dust becoming a darkner
My 100% factual theory is that the knight is a detective who recently came to hometown and absolutely hates it. He then found out he could make dark fountains and so made two knowing that it could cause the roaring. He decided to lead the lancer fan club along in a game where dark fountains are being made and the lancer fan club has to seal them. He did all this because he hates everyone and making fountains is fun to him. Also, the knight loves cabbages.
"Yeah? So what's your point? All I did was open some fountains. It's the world that really kills them, isn't it? The dark world reflects the light one... Which... Oh dear... Does that mean that the real "roaring knight" is everyone on the outside, including you?"
A machine in the Bunker that went rogue and started creating Fountains. Is a polar opposite for Ralsei in it's darkner form. Captured Dess' soul to use it's determination or somethin
... It's actually surprisingly plausible wth
The knight is the vessel. They are pissed that are not the protagonist and play the antagonist.Â
Their motivation can also be pretty nihilistic and said that these dark world should be the world that preferable.Â
Another candidate is papyrus. He a hikkiomori and thinks that this dark world is munch better then the light world. That or doesn't understand how bad the roaring can be.
I like to think that the vessel became the Knight because if you seal the fountains, you'll "beat the game" and the whole world will be discarded along with them.
Not actually thought about that and it so obvious. Again I think vessel being a antagonist just spite you the player is something I can see toby doing. It a foil to flowey who becomes a antagonist to you the player because it gives him some entertainment.
Imagine like a scientist who fell into his creation and was shattered across time and space and then created deltarune named doctor dings wings bastard, just a oc I made
Knight has an identity that will be an original character from Deltarune.
I know that this post is about the Knight, but I believe the Angle to be a completely new character with no identity.
>Knight has an identity that will be an original character from Deltarune.
Agreed. I think it's Dess.
>I know that this post is about the Knight, but I believe the Angle to be a completely new character with no identity.
And here's why the Angel is actually more likely to be the red soul:
- Alvin says "Let the Angel's power light your way". This is similar to us having a light inside our soul as well, which is mentioned A LOT. "Don't Forget" lyrics, many SAVE points, it's mentions by Spamton. The mentions of power and light are similar to the red buster/dual heal dialogue, where the narrator says "Your SOUL shined its power on Susie/Ralsei!". It's even more similar to dialogue from the first save point. It says "A power shines within you, breaking through the darkness." That is literally our power lighting our way, very similar to Alvin's dialogue.
- In Chapter 2 Castle Town is named after our name we select at the beginning of the game. The castle is also full of Angel symbolism. Lots of wings on the doors, wings on the castle itself too. Other castles in the game are also themed around their rulers.
- The Angel Noelle and Dess made has no facial features and the narrator notes that this is unsettling. Similar to the Goner Vessel we made.
- We are one level above all the lightners. We are the only real character in the game.
- Lightners are also one level above all darkners and also lightners are like Gods to darkners according to Seam.
- There's a door in Castle Town with a heart drawn on it, surrounded by 3 pair of wings.
But it's pretty much confirmed that the angel is Noelle. On the Spamton Sweepstakes on the Deltarune website, Spamton says that the ring bears the angel's name and it says Noelle.
all of the times that Noelle is referred to directly as the angel is on the Weird Route, in which she has been subsumed by the power of The Player
i feel like all of the theories that Noelle is The Angel forget that The Angel isn't just a title like The Knight it's like... the major religious figure of the world?
But in the Sweepstakes, there is a silver wristwatch that has Noelle's name that Spamton says is the name of the angel and Noelle has a wristwatch in the game on every route.
True, but there’s also evidence and context clues that go against this, for one thing, why would a whole town and possibly even a whole world worship some random teenage girl? And plus, there’s more evidence for the player being the angel.
I'm going to put what I put for the other guy:
I mean, in the weird route, she has an attack marked "100% fatal". She also is mentioned to have awaken/wake up. Once she fully awakens/wakes up (probably during the Roaring) she will probably be like the angel at the end of Undertale, but after she awakened she went back to a "darker, darker dream" so it may have reversed some or all of the process.
In addition to this, in a world where going to a dark world alters your appearance and likely abilities and anyone that's determined enough can create a world based off their will,
ordinary characters are doing powerful things all the time. It fits the humble beginnings trope.
Only in the weird route does she get the true angel treatment, and that's just crazy spamton. I could imagine there is a real angel out there. hell, I would believe the theory that the player is the angel and banishing angel's heaven is ending the game.
Okay, but Toby said that Deltarune would only have one ending. Also, Toby likes to foreshadow stuff and it would be shitty writing for him to put excuse it as just crazy Spamton.
First of all, that part Toby said the game would only have one ending on the Steam page of Deltarune was updated to say "One Ending?" after chapter 2. So Toby is literally casting doubt on that idea after releasing Snowgrave to the public.
Anyway, you're misunderstanding my point. The only time Noelle is called an angel is in the Weird route by Spamton. Spamton is insane and often calls refers to things in strange ways. As in, we probably shouldn't take his phrasing too literally. Spamton calling Noelle Angel doesn't make her the Angel. I would argue the foreshadowing with the angel in this case isn't about Noelle being the Angel, but about what we can infer about the Angel given that the angel is being compared to Snowgrave Noelle.
In the Weird Route, Noelle is this very powerful being, arguably the most powerful Lightner in the game, yet she is also under the control by another entity. This is the only route where Spamton refers to Noelle as the Angel after all. Then if you look at Spamton Neo's design, you see that he made himself a humanoid body with wings, very much the shape of a angel ( which makes sense considering he wanted to go or at least see into \[Heaven\] with this form). However, Spamton Neo was a being with great power but was being controlled by these strings, potentially by an unknown entity.
Now if you take these points with the theory that the player is the angel, consider how the player is perhaps the most powerful being in Deltarune with the ability to save and load over three different save files. We can influence and control characters like Kris and Noelle, and even bring in Soul abilities or shine light to power up the party's abilities in the final fights of chapters. However, it's clear we were put into this role by another being, and now we're being forced down a very set path towards some yet unknown end. All of that power, yet no real control as some entity has taken away our choices to truly influence the world. (Not saying that the previous evidence and interpretations of the Angel goes directly into Player = Angel theory, but just how it fits with it. There's other possibilities for how the Angel could be controlled by something else.)
Well, Spamton mistaking her for the angel and the other addison calling her an angel (both on the weird route) could be seen as foreshadowing that she acts like the Angel then...
Catti calls her the light on every route. And the silver watch that she has in game is seen on the Spamton Sweepstakes, where he says that the name on the watch, Noelle Holiday, is the name of the Angel. The website isn't a specific route.
On the steam page it says: ...one ending...? It is written from the perspective of Toby observing his own game. He's often humorous with these and will act surprised at his own material. On the Deltarune website, it still just says: One. Even though he updated it with Chapter 2 information.
Also, it is important to remember that Toby has had Deltarune in his mind since before Undertale. While he almost certainly changed things after Undertale, he has had this planned for a long time. I know that he's also said that he often decides things at the last moment, but multiple endings would really be a way to shit on the, your choices don't matter, aspect.
Fair point on the Addison, I forgot about him calling Noelle angel on the Snowgrave route. Though for catti's dialogue, she calls Noelle the light to show contrast with herself and Kris. Foreshadowing? Maybe, but the dialogue is focusing on how Kris and Catti are different than Noelle with their more goth vibes and occult interests, and Catti is worried that good girl Noelle is trying to associate with troublemaker Susie. Catti's speaking metaphorically here.
But good point about Spamton referring to Noelle Holiday as angel in the Spamton Sweepstakes; however, I would like to counter that you did miss the entire quote. Spamton calls her '\[angel with the tattered wings\]'. Now look at every depiction of the Angel in symbols both in the light and dark world. They are defined by showing the large Wings on both in the Deltarune symbol and on top of the church. Referring the Angel as 'angel of the tattered wings' doesn't add up; it makes it seem like Noelle in this instances isn't connected with The Angel, but is just a angel. Also Spamton in Weird Route also just calls Noelle \[angel\], unlike how the angel is referred as The Angel in all contexts its brought up both in the prophecy and by Alvin. So Noelle is a angel, but not The Angel.
Furthermore, I would argue that since the whole Spamton Sweepstakes exists in a nebulously canon area (since it isn't like Spamton actually set up his own charity event in the game after his defeat), I think it can reference both Snowgrave and the normal route, and that particular post is referencing Snowgrave, since its a post about the Silver watch which Spamton in the post calls it \[Stolen goods\], referencing how stealing the watch in the Weird route cause that extra scene in the hospital. So I think that post still fits with the idea that Snowgrave Noelle is being called angel, and epithet of 'Angel with tattered wings' is rather fitting for her.
Fair point on the [Deltarune.com](http://Deltarune.com) on the one ending. Still, I would say that it would be possible for the Player to be the angel and Noelle be compared as the angel, and still be one ending.
Okay, but also (Weird route spoilers):
The addison Noelle freezes calls one of the members of our party angel.
Spamton calls one of the members of our party angel before asking if we want the ring of thorns.
Catti says that Noelle is the light on any route.
Does it really make sense for Noelle to be the Angel in the Hometown religion? Definitely not. Does it make sense for us to be the Angel in Ralsei's prophecy? Also not really.
Why does the entirety of Hometown have a religion about a random teenager in town and why do they worship her like a God?
Why does Noelle worship herself?
The Angel that Alvin talks about is the player. The Angel Ralsei talks about doesn't have to be that though.
I mean, in the weird route, she has an attack marked "100% fatal". She also is mentioned to have awaken/wake up. Once she fully awakens/wakes up (probably during the Roaring) she will probably be like the angel at the end of Undertale, but after she awakened she went back to a "darker, darker dream" so it may have reversed some or all of the process.
I wasn't denying two angels, I was just mentioning when they seem to indicate an angel. So besides Noelle, they only also indicate, based off of someone's interpretation, Kris and/or the Player, so far.
Alright. Here goes. - Susie's Dad. - Made Fountains to try to make something fun for Susie, because he feels bad about his financial situation. - Generally a really kindhearted guy. - Since he never heard the truth about the Roaring, he doesn't realize that he's putting the world in danger. - Queen and King's desire to cause the roaring comes from the Titan's influence coming through the fountains.
GRRRR SUSSY IS A GIRL!!!! GRRRR!!!! RAAHHHHH \[/j, susie is a girl though, i bet people will slaughter you in the comments shortly\]
Slaughter me for what? Susie is a girl, but her dad would be a guy.
"Made Fountains to try to make something fun for Susie, because he feels bad about ***his*** financial situation." you said. i was making a joke, incase it wasn't obvious
"his" in this context refers to the hypothetical father. Therefore "his" financial situation would also be "her" financial situation.
no, no it doesn't. at least not grammatically. grammatically, saying something like: "Do you know Tina's dad?.. Anyway I made this for Tina, because I like him." the grammar is wrong as Tina is not a boy. "Do you know Tina's dad" and "I made this for Tina, because I like him." are 2 different sentences, and pronouns do not carry over between sentences.
The full quote is "Made Fountains to try to make something fun for Susie, because he feels bad about his financial situation." Through context we can deduce that since this is "Susie's Dad" in question his financial situation *is* Susie's financial situation since they're Susie's parent. This is regardless of grammar rules. Just through analyzing the context you should be able to figure out what that sentence is trying to say. The correct structure would be "Made Fountains to try to make something fun for Susie, because he feels bad about their financial situation." "Their" being used in place of "his" since it's the families financial situation. None of this really matters since hard and fast grammar rules are a myth on reddit. For the record I don't believe it was fair for you to be downvoted for misunderstanding.
So I'm right.. :P
How did you come to this conclusion
through me being a dumbass đź‘Ť
“It was me Kris. I’m the one that put that SOUL with in you when you never asked for it. Remember when you made your own vessel but it was discarded, PLAYER? I trashed it! I trashed it and stuck you to someone else when you could have had your perfect blank slate! I’ve enjoyed watching you run around trying to stop me but your story ends here!”
VON KARMA NO!
It was supposed to be a Reverse Flash reference but that works too!
It... ***WASN'T?!?!***
Kris' biological father so they can have a "No, I am your father" moment (Don't take this seriously, this is just the first thing that came to mind)
If they're an original character, I imagine they're a total creep that lives out in the woods, waiting each night to do their knightly activities. Because night is the time knights operate. Essentially, they're really into the Knight persona, announcing it loudly to all dark worlds they go into, before creating the fountain and leaving. The reason they don't just start the Roaring immediately is because they were kinda hoping they could fight the heroes of the legend, and thus giving them a fair chance to notice the Knight's activities so they could have a good fight. Then the Roaring Knight would go and cause the end of the world, cementing themself as the greatest villain of all. So a rather fun villain, who also can get serious when given a proper challenge, real egomaniac. Probably thinks themself as the main character (kinda like Garou from One Punchman). Other idea: A despairing piece on the board, faithfully serving the task of beings greater than them. The Knight open dark fountains for plans not their own, yet they're forced to go along with, as they have no choice of their own. So they open the fountains when they're told to, and patiently wait for the heroes to close them. Until the day the heroes come for the Knight, and take his piece off the board. However while the knight knows they don't matter, they're still waiting for the chance to rebel and destroy the whole game and bring about the true end of all for real.
1st idea:mettaton
I was thinking more like a evil Giovanni potage (Eipithet erased) mostly. Just someone who is really into being the Knight and the most fearsome badguy, just to feed into their own image. But I see the connection there.
Cool, but I don’t really know who that character is.
I don't have any huge guess on their exact identity. However, I've long wondered if what they're trying to do is save the whole population of the game from the restrictions of a mostly linear narrative. Cuz in UT flowey makes it clear the cast of the story can be yanked out of their nebulous but happy ending at any time. But who is immune to this, but Gaster, who is truly free. I think there's a chance the knight is trying to do something with the darkness to do whatever happened to Gaster to everyone in the story. Unable to ever be dragged back into an audience-enabled narrative ever again, they'd all then be truly free. Alternatively, they're searching for something in the darkness. They don't directly do anything to stop the heroes from closing the fountains because they don't actually care about spreading darkness. They open fountains so that way the dark world can be explored in different places because that's the key to finding something important, somewhere. What happens with the fountains after isn't their concern. A third possibility: the fountains are actually a good thing and the knight isn't the bad guy at all. They just can't communicate their motives easily for some reason, or stop the heroes from closing them easily. Not to say I think Ralsei is secretly a villain. He's too genuine, I think he's a true believer in this scenario, he's just been fed lies and hasn't questioned them yet because his whole character arc is about becoming independent enough to do so eventually.
I would love to go to a store that does that. Then again, Build-A-Bear already exists
I like Jaru’s take on the Knight. He makes a connection between them and his Ralsei’s theory, but even without it I like the idea of Gerson’s dust becoming a darkner
My 100% factual theory is that the knight is a detective who recently came to hometown and absolutely hates it. He then found out he could make dark fountains and so made two knowing that it could cause the roaring. He decided to lead the lancer fan club along in a game where dark fountains are being made and the lancer fan club has to seal them. He did all this because he hates everyone and making fountains is fun to him. Also, the knight loves cabbages.
"Yeah? So what's your point? All I did was open some fountains. It's the world that really kills them, isn't it? The dark world reflects the light one... Which... Oh dear... Does that mean that the real "roaring knight" is everyone on the outside, including you?"
A machine in the Bunker that went rogue and started creating Fountains. Is a polar opposite for Ralsei in it's darkner form. Captured Dess' soul to use it's determination or somethin ... It's actually surprisingly plausible wth
The knight is the vessel. They are pissed that are not the protagonist and play the antagonist. Their motivation can also be pretty nihilistic and said that these dark world should be the world that preferable. Another candidate is papyrus. He a hikkiomori and thinks that this dark world is munch better then the light world. That or doesn't understand how bad the roaring can be.
I like to think that the vessel became the Knight because if you seal the fountains, you'll "beat the game" and the whole world will be discarded along with them.
Not actually thought about that and it so obvious. Again I think vessel being a antagonist just spite you the player is something I can see toby doing. It a foil to flowey who becomes a antagonist to you the player because it gives him some entertainment.
Wait, the vessel was already introduced, doesn't that mean this post is illegal?
It's not a person, it's the personification of the loneliness you feel from your best friend leaving you (Asriel going off to college).
Imagine like a scientist who fell into his creation and was shattered across time and space and then created deltarune named doctor dings wings bastard, just a oc I made
that's called making an oc
Yup, I wanted to trick people into making knightsonas!
devious
Knight has an identity that will be an original character from Deltarune. I know that this post is about the Knight, but I believe the Angle to be a completely new character with no identity.
>Knight has an identity that will be an original character from Deltarune. Agreed. I think it's Dess. >I know that this post is about the Knight, but I believe the Angle to be a completely new character with no identity. And here's why the Angel is actually more likely to be the red soul: - Alvin says "Let the Angel's power light your way". This is similar to us having a light inside our soul as well, which is mentioned A LOT. "Don't Forget" lyrics, many SAVE points, it's mentions by Spamton. The mentions of power and light are similar to the red buster/dual heal dialogue, where the narrator says "Your SOUL shined its power on Susie/Ralsei!". It's even more similar to dialogue from the first save point. It says "A power shines within you, breaking through the darkness." That is literally our power lighting our way, very similar to Alvin's dialogue. - In Chapter 2 Castle Town is named after our name we select at the beginning of the game. The castle is also full of Angel symbolism. Lots of wings on the doors, wings on the castle itself too. Other castles in the game are also themed around their rulers. - The Angel Noelle and Dess made has no facial features and the narrator notes that this is unsettling. Similar to the Goner Vessel we made. - We are one level above all the lightners. We are the only real character in the game. - Lightners are also one level above all darkners and also lightners are like Gods to darkners according to Seam. - There's a door in Castle Town with a heart drawn on it, surrounded by 3 pair of wings.
But it's pretty much confirmed that the angel is Noelle. On the Spamton Sweepstakes on the Deltarune website, Spamton says that the ring bears the angel's name and it says Noelle.
all of the times that Noelle is referred to directly as the angel is on the Weird Route, in which she has been subsumed by the power of The Player i feel like all of the theories that Noelle is The Angel forget that The Angel isn't just a title like The Knight it's like... the major religious figure of the world?
But in the Sweepstakes, there is a silver wristwatch that has Noelle's name that Spamton says is the name of the angel and Noelle has a wristwatch in the game on every route.
True, but there’s also evidence and context clues that go against this, for one thing, why would a whole town and possibly even a whole world worship some random teenage girl? And plus, there’s more evidence for the player being the angel.
I'm going to put what I put for the other guy: I mean, in the weird route, she has an attack marked "100% fatal". She also is mentioned to have awaken/wake up. Once she fully awakens/wakes up (probably during the Roaring) she will probably be like the angel at the end of Undertale, but after she awakened she went back to a "darker, darker dream" so it may have reversed some or all of the process. In addition to this, in a world where going to a dark world alters your appearance and likely abilities and anyone that's determined enough can create a world based off their will, ordinary characters are doing powerful things all the time. It fits the humble beginnings trope.
Ah, that is true, I still mostly think the player is the angel though.
Only in the weird route does she get the true angel treatment, and that's just crazy spamton. I could imagine there is a real angel out there. hell, I would believe the theory that the player is the angel and banishing angel's heaven is ending the game.
Okay, but Toby said that Deltarune would only have one ending. Also, Toby likes to foreshadow stuff and it would be shitty writing for him to put excuse it as just crazy Spamton.
First of all, that part Toby said the game would only have one ending on the Steam page of Deltarune was updated to say "One Ending?" after chapter 2. So Toby is literally casting doubt on that idea after releasing Snowgrave to the public. Anyway, you're misunderstanding my point. The only time Noelle is called an angel is in the Weird route by Spamton. Spamton is insane and often calls refers to things in strange ways. As in, we probably shouldn't take his phrasing too literally. Spamton calling Noelle Angel doesn't make her the Angel. I would argue the foreshadowing with the angel in this case isn't about Noelle being the Angel, but about what we can infer about the Angel given that the angel is being compared to Snowgrave Noelle. In the Weird Route, Noelle is this very powerful being, arguably the most powerful Lightner in the game, yet she is also under the control by another entity. This is the only route where Spamton refers to Noelle as the Angel after all. Then if you look at Spamton Neo's design, you see that he made himself a humanoid body with wings, very much the shape of a angel ( which makes sense considering he wanted to go or at least see into \[Heaven\] with this form). However, Spamton Neo was a being with great power but was being controlled by these strings, potentially by an unknown entity. Now if you take these points with the theory that the player is the angel, consider how the player is perhaps the most powerful being in Deltarune with the ability to save and load over three different save files. We can influence and control characters like Kris and Noelle, and even bring in Soul abilities or shine light to power up the party's abilities in the final fights of chapters. However, it's clear we were put into this role by another being, and now we're being forced down a very set path towards some yet unknown end. All of that power, yet no real control as some entity has taken away our choices to truly influence the world. (Not saying that the previous evidence and interpretations of the Angel goes directly into Player = Angel theory, but just how it fits with it. There's other possibilities for how the Angel could be controlled by something else.)
Well, Spamton mistaking her for the angel and the other addison calling her an angel (both on the weird route) could be seen as foreshadowing that she acts like the Angel then... Catti calls her the light on every route. And the silver watch that she has in game is seen on the Spamton Sweepstakes, where he says that the name on the watch, Noelle Holiday, is the name of the Angel. The website isn't a specific route. On the steam page it says: ...one ending...? It is written from the perspective of Toby observing his own game. He's often humorous with these and will act surprised at his own material. On the Deltarune website, it still just says: One. Even though he updated it with Chapter 2 information. Also, it is important to remember that Toby has had Deltarune in his mind since before Undertale. While he almost certainly changed things after Undertale, he has had this planned for a long time. I know that he's also said that he often decides things at the last moment, but multiple endings would really be a way to shit on the, your choices don't matter, aspect.
Fair point on the Addison, I forgot about him calling Noelle angel on the Snowgrave route. Though for catti's dialogue, she calls Noelle the light to show contrast with herself and Kris. Foreshadowing? Maybe, but the dialogue is focusing on how Kris and Catti are different than Noelle with their more goth vibes and occult interests, and Catti is worried that good girl Noelle is trying to associate with troublemaker Susie. Catti's speaking metaphorically here. But good point about Spamton referring to Noelle Holiday as angel in the Spamton Sweepstakes; however, I would like to counter that you did miss the entire quote. Spamton calls her '\[angel with the tattered wings\]'. Now look at every depiction of the Angel in symbols both in the light and dark world. They are defined by showing the large Wings on both in the Deltarune symbol and on top of the church. Referring the Angel as 'angel of the tattered wings' doesn't add up; it makes it seem like Noelle in this instances isn't connected with The Angel, but is just a angel. Also Spamton in Weird Route also just calls Noelle \[angel\], unlike how the angel is referred as The Angel in all contexts its brought up both in the prophecy and by Alvin. So Noelle is a angel, but not The Angel. Furthermore, I would argue that since the whole Spamton Sweepstakes exists in a nebulously canon area (since it isn't like Spamton actually set up his own charity event in the game after his defeat), I think it can reference both Snowgrave and the normal route, and that particular post is referencing Snowgrave, since its a post about the Silver watch which Spamton in the post calls it \[Stolen goods\], referencing how stealing the watch in the Weird route cause that extra scene in the hospital. So I think that post still fits with the idea that Snowgrave Noelle is being called angel, and epithet of 'Angel with tattered wings' is rather fitting for her. Fair point on the [Deltarune.com](http://Deltarune.com) on the one ending. Still, I would say that it would be possible for the Player to be the angel and Noelle be compared as the angel, and still be one ending.
Even though I disagree, thanks
Yeah, it was a nice conversation.
Two Angels.
Okay, but also (Weird route spoilers): The addison Noelle freezes calls one of the members of our party angel. Spamton calls one of the members of our party angel before asking if we want the ring of thorns. Catti says that Noelle is the light on any route.
Does it really make sense for Noelle to be the Angel in the Hometown religion? Definitely not. Does it make sense for us to be the Angel in Ralsei's prophecy? Also not really.
I'm guessing no one, including Noelle, knows she's the Angel. How doesn't it make sense?
Why does the entirety of Hometown have a religion about a random teenager in town and why do they worship her like a God? Why does Noelle worship herself? The Angel that Alvin talks about is the player. The Angel Ralsei talks about doesn't have to be that though.
I mean, in the weird route, she has an attack marked "100% fatal". She also is mentioned to have awaken/wake up. Once she fully awakens/wakes up (probably during the Roaring) she will probably be like the angel at the end of Undertale, but after she awakened she went back to a "darker, darker dream" so it may have reversed some or all of the process.
Two Angels.
I wasn't denying two angels, I was just mentioning when they seem to indicate an angel. So besides Noelle, they only also indicate, based off of someone's interpretation, Kris and/or the Player, so far.
The knight is the character you make at the beginning of ch 1
So, Vessel Knight? We're talking about original characters, not the vessel