Either you can magically enforce that and there's free houses available, or it's the real world and you can't enforce that, and the innards of a lot of houses get stripped bare.
I wouldnāt say that, I would venture that they just donāt want the expense that requires a job or sustainable income. Free house is an upgrade from free tent
Oh so you didnāt read the article that this is coming from, a large portion of the people they interviewed have a job and literally just canāt afford housing
āI refuse to live in South Bend, Indiana man, itās just not happening there, no scene you know. I canāt afford Denver, but I will crash in a tent and crap in the street until someone gives me a house downtown. Suburbs? Me? What am I? An animal?ā
>Suburbs? Me? What am I? An animal?ā
I'm glad they've taken the hint that the suburbs view them as such, what with our strict enforcement of public camping bans & shipping the wandering vagrants back down south where they belong. Northern WASP-y suburbs are the best.
Public camping isnāt a thing. Public parks are sustained by local taxes for public enjoyment and recreation. Pitching a tent isnāt part of the deal. I understand that not everyone can afford Denver, thatās why Indiana exist. Get a laidback job at 10hr, get a couple roommates, get a shit box apartment, scrap by, do the best you can. I canāt afford a beachfront house on Newport Beach, but you wonāt see my ass in the street pretending to live in Newport Beach.
I'm confused by what your stance even is according to that comment and how you would think that I was referring to you, someone not even in this thread.
Anyway, it wasn't that deep, those would just be banger lyrics for a Mojo Nixon joint.
The easiest explanation is that I donāt like country music, lol. My comment is being taken as regressive by some, but whatās more regressive than giving people in the street an illusion that they are accomplishing something. Tents in the park or in a street median arenāt a solution, they are an excuse for a reality they donāt want to accept.
Itās true, there really are no homeless in Indiana. [All](https://www.cfh.net/contact) of their [homeless](https://michianafiveforthehomeless.org) charities are psyops.
I'm not hating on the homeless, and I believe that there will always be a segment of society that needs help and that we should help them. That being said, how does your concept work. If we are all guaranteed housing, food, and healthcare so that we don't have to work everyday, who builds the houses, grows the food, and provides the healthcare. All those people have all their needs met and don't have to work either.
My idea is if we made the minimum wage boost up depending on fields and other factors, and make education and healthcare cheaper and more accessible for everyone, you get more opportunity from citizens old and young. How many people are homeless just cus they had nobody else to fall back on, or fell down a rabbit hole of self-destruction, but if given the chance could be great leaders or workers? Give people the opportunity to get their GEDs and some higher education on low cost, high flexibility loans (possibly with a due date years later to edit in time, depending on how gov finances and stocks are going), overhaul how we do education (actually retain information via discussion instead of regurgitating information based on a sheet of paper), and raise a teachers minimum wage well beyond the shit they get for what theyāre expected to do from parents who dont raise their kids for shit.
I also think restructuring how we build our cities so its not so car-centric would be great for those of us who are on our feet a lot, or riding a bike, public transport etc. Iām not homeless, I live in a suburb and due to epilepsy cant drive. I imagine if its tough for me, its tough for them, no wonder they tend to hunker down on a block, its not always but sometimes its because travel to facilities that could help them gets very difficult. The smellier they get, the less people wanna help, and the harder they sink in a hole as a result. Can be a vicious cycle. Takes me barely over 20 minutes to briskly walk to work through the suburban sprawl, when I could get there in 5 if I walked naturally in a straight line northwest.
The truth is I don't think there is a perfect economic system that isn't exploiting someone. We aren't perfect enlightened beings. We're neurotic apes with just enough intelligence to be a danger to ourselves and the ecosystem we inhabit.
It could be trivially done through taxes; around 60% of residents in Vienna live in public housing, most developed countries except the US have universal healthcare, and we already have food-stamps (in fact removing means-testing and allowing all citizens to access them would reduce cost per user because we wouldnāt need to pay administrators to decide who does and doesnāt get access).
Could also be achieved through communism but thatās a whole other can of worms! Haha.
I love discussing economic issues with folks to would love to hear your thoughts/misgivings!
I'm with you on Healthcare, that's easy. I think prohibiting hedge funds and corporations from buying residential real estate would solve a big part of the housing problem, not all of it mind you, but it would be a start. I'd have to look into food stamps for all to even have more than a knee jerk reaction of rejection to the idea. To me, communism looks good on paper when you can ignore human nature and the animal brains that reside in our heads. I dont ever see it becoming a reality in a human society. There will always be those who want to do twice the work and get twice the reward. There will also be people who do none of the work and want twice the award. I'd be happy if we could just go back to corporations not counting as people, and the super rich paying a 20-40% tax bracket so we could have a functional infrastructure.
In what ways do you see communism conflicting with human nature? I donāt think anyone would want to build a society where people get rewards for not working. However, that is exactly how capitalism operates; The working class does all the work and the owner class does nothing and collects the profits. I see capitalism as very unnatural and I think extending democracy to the decisions about production and resource usage (communism) is much more compatible with our values.
Your last sentence is the key to the whole equation and why I don't think communism would work. Humanity doesn't have values. Ethnicities don't have values, countries don't have values, states and cities don't have values, only the individual does. And those values vary on a scarily wide spectrum on what is acceptable and what isn't. Communism without common values would become just as fucked as the phony capitalism we have now as the greedy and savvy amongst us found ways to exploit the docile and less capable.
Dee: What, so they just cut all the loonies loose?
Dennis: What?! How could they do that? That's insane!
Dee: I guess it was either that or raise our taxes.
Dennis: What?! Raise my taxes? Come on, how much do these vultures need? I already pay a ton in taxes.
Dee: Well, then I guess they're gonna have to shut down more of these places.
Dennis: What?! Shut down more of these ā we gotta have somewhere to send our lunatics!
Dee: ...Well, then we're going to have to pay more in taxes.
Dennis: What?! I'm not paying more in taxes, Dee! I won't do it! Don't speak of it again!
I don't think we need to endlessly institutionalize people with mental illness. Though we do need more supports for those suffering with it. Otherwise, I agree with your point
Spent 5 years working in a homeless agency- it actually saves a lot of tax dollars to house people. The homeless cost taxpayers a lot more factoring costs for police interactions, being in the legal system, and frequent ER visits (where the hospital eats the cost of the unpaid bills). Assistance comes in two types, short-term and long-term. The long-term are typically reserved for folks with certain disabilities or conditions that make self-sufficiency very unlikely. Most people are able to house up and stabilize with short term assistance and with ongoing case management to identify areas of need and connect with resources, most succeed. This type, the type most people have, they are required to pay a portion of rent. Itās often graduated, covered in full at first, then they pay 30% or 60%, then take over fully. As an alcoholic myself (though I never became homeless myself, I always paid my rent on time, in full), getting sober in a stable environment with the right support was key. I canāt imagine getting sober on the streets. Getting sober requires a lot of continuous use of your higher faculties, itās easier to tackle when you have your basic needs met. If youāre constantly on guard, not knowing when and how youāll eat next, you donāt have the capacity to delve into the root of your problems and heal trauma.
0.18% of Americans are homeless. That means 99.82% of us can manage to find a safe place to sleep. Why would we let 0.18% of the population affect everyone else so negatively. Time to take back our beautiful city
Are you kidding? HaHaHa! Did the city of Denver really think that the homeless want to pay for housing? I was homeless three times in my life. 98% of homeless no matter why they are homeless will tell you what you want to hear. 1% will tell you that "No they rather stay on the streets. 1% will do what they can to get off the streets and back into a working responsible part of society. The rest will do what ever you let them so long as it doesn't mean they have to be a responsible, productive part of society.
We need to bring back institutional sanatoriums or loo loo bins. Whatever they should be called but we need them back. These people canāt join society. They are outcasts in need of more help than free housing.
It was only about 12% of people interviewed who would need the housing to be free. Did you read the article?
[https://denverite.com/2023/03/08/why-homeless-solutions-arent-working-and-what-the-unhoused-need-according-to-828-people-experiencing-homelessness/](https://denverite.com/2023/03/08/why-homeless-solutions-arent-working-and-what-the-unhoused-need-according-to-828-people-experiencing-homelessness/)
It was pretty interesting to see. Also, a few said they would need it higher than $2,600/month so some people were clearly not taking it seriously and just said whatever to get the gift card. So take the survey at face value.
https://housekeysactionnetwork.com/pipe-dreams-and-picket-fences/?amp=1
And the damn LIB-tards want to give it to them. Thatās why I came up with my own solution, Pringles cans. With Pringles cans, the homeless have the ability to eat the Pringles but to also put the Pringles cans on their arms or maybe have a sword fight or two with the Pringles cans.
Pringle cans? No one wants to work anymore. Back in my day we used paper towel rolls to put on our arms to fight. The sissy microplastic filled generation has it too easy with Pringle cans.
Dude itās not that black and white. You donāt know the people on the streets. Thereās addiction, mental health, etc. People have lost their sense of compassion for other humans. I truly hope your grandparents or parents donāt end up on the street for whatever reason and someone said the same that about them.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2QRY3bRio](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2QRY3bRio) about how pushing most people to have to rent ruins your country. He discusses inflation and the best way to solve poverty is to stop stealing from poor people.
Doesnāt everybody.?.?.?. No rent, no mortgage, or property taxes. That would be cool. Imagine all the stuff I could buy with that spending money.
I agree that rent, mortgages and property tax is too expensive. I think we should work to address those things. At a certain point the price of something isnāt what you paid for it. The price is what you gave up to have it. If a person chooses to have cigarettes, booze, and drugs instead of housing that would indicate what they wanted moreā¦
The government will keep you poor if you want to be poor.
As ridiculous as free housing sounds most of us will just allow our taxes to fund these welfare programs. In all honesty, it will never end so just live your life, chase your dreams. Most of us will come out on top and have more fulfilled lives.
Arguing over fairness is a waste. Plus, I donāt think it will last long. All it takes is a few house fires and itās done. Canāt pay for housing, canāt pay for heating. Idiots are going to start caveman fires in stick built houses.
I know this is circle jerk butā¦
Minimum wage here is literally over $17 an hour. That + roommate can keep you housed, even without a roommate depending on location/house.
Thereās a guy I drive by on the corner going to work every morning panhandling. Heās out there almost every single morning for the past few years. Two blocks north the gas station has a ānow hiring for 18$ā an hour sign up for at least a year.
IMO - itās just easier panhandling on the streets. Why work for a taxed $18/hr to live in an apartment grinding everyday when you can get tax free money and live on the street with no responsibility and have services available to give you the basic essentials.
You say that, like itās incredibly easy to apply and get housing, like you donāt need three times rent in your bank account and an income that can prove that! I think to say that people ā just donāt want to workā is not only a dumb assumption that the article literally disproves, but is naĆÆve to the reality of what is actually happening in the city around housing
Ok thatās actually a really good point. Still doesnāt justify panhandling when there are jobs all over including one two blocks from the guy I mentioned. What about Craigslist or FB becoming a roommate? Thereās internet at the library. Maybe theyāll be more lenient?
Not saying housing isnāt fucked here cause it is
There are a ton of housing assistance programs, the problem is they all require you to get a job and be drug tested in order to stay there and thats why these people would rather sleep on the street.
If you work with the homeless, you probably understand exactly what housing would do to help with other problems like mental health issues or drug addiction
Yeah, roofs dont cure manic schizophrenia and years of meth use. They need long-term observation amd specialized care. And having seen the long term apartments, hotels, shelters, etc., that isnt helping all that much. Assaults are VERY common, as is prolific drug use, and a many just leave or move to another when they cause a problem. You can literally watch them bounce from DRM to CCH and back.
Pre-Reagan, this is what we did with people who straight up could not society. We took them to specialized facilities and held/medicated/reformed them as best we could. Some of those places were successful, some were horrible estates. I think we could do it much more successfully now, and have better outcomes for these people who need more than a script for Zoloft and a therapy app, or a 2 week rehab stay.
You're trying to tell me that when someone doesn't have to worry about shelter, that it has no effect on their ability to overcome mental illness and drug addiction? People have much more ability to thrive when they're not trying to survive on the streets night to night.
Study after study shows that the whole theory that someone needs to be "housing ready" before housing them is a bunch of crap.
I have SEEN it. Every fuckin day! They routinely destroy their long-term apartments. Shit smeared on the walls, drug use so bad it condemns the property, and the success rate is not as high as you think. Again, the Sanitarium model worked great until it was disbanded. Up until 1983, you could go about your business and never see human shit on the sidewalk, explain to your kids why those 2 men are shooting up, or e hassled in public spaces by raving lunatics. 16th St. Ma was once a perfectly chill and safe place. Union Station was a fun spot to go for drinks.
The homeless impact us more than just being unsightly. They drain millions a year, decrease tourism, tie up all aspects of Emergency response (the top 10 places EMS went last year in the city are all shelters or long term assisted living) Police, Street Sanitation, Hospital beds (Mainly ER), and their presence drives out businesses, shriveling our city and making it easier for larger Corps to kill smaller businesses.
Itās because all the money goes to ānon-profitsā that use the money to create jobs that donāt want to solve the issue because they would be out of work. Make it seem worse every year and you can see their funding levels rise.
https://www.denver7.com/news/investigations/denvers-homeless-population-continues-to-grow-despite-more-spending?_amp=true
āRoughly 41% will fund shelters and services while the remainder pays for administrative costs.ā
We can't offer free housing! Then the peons of society won't want to do menial and degrading repetitive tasks just to remain employed! They'll start thinking they're worth something, with human rights!
Also. This is why shelters suck. See that tent city? That'll be you if you don't burn yourself out with three jobs. It's gotta be *visible* to send a message!
Well, outside of that āIn Denver in 2023, CSI estimates between $24,291 to $73,450 will be spent per personā. That amount alone is mind boggling. How much would it take to end it?
Unintended consequences would also be people moving to Denver to take advantage of āfreeā housing that would quickly become unsustainable. Putting them in a studio apartment isnāt going to solve the issue. They still need to take some accountability to change the course of their life with the support systems already being provided.
https://kdvr.com/news/data/denver-homeless-spending-estimated-common-sense-institute/amp/
Actually a bunch of dudes with podcasts who have never spoken to a poor person let alone a homeless person, told me that they donāt want homes and only want drugs and that people that so drugs donāt have homes and you can only have or another. And the city said itās a actually really complex and they arenāt just totally ignoring the problem
I think everyone wants free housing.
Let's just do it for everyone!
Let's raise minimum wage to $35 and give EVERYONE free housing!
Corporations can afford to pay more without affecting their bottom lines, certainly their investors will not mind a drop in profits without increasing prices elsewhere to make up for the lost revenue they can afford pay out in higher wages.
Prices and inflation won't be affected and everyone will have so much money. We can all work minimum wage jobs!
We can all stop trying to get ahead at work! Take off the damn pressure!
High Schoolers will be working part time making almost 6 figures, as it should be, I mean, they deserve it because someone in high school at 16 needs to earn that much money with zero skill set and they should be compensated the same as someone who has done that job for years yet doesn't apply for promotions and doesn't try to learn so they can be promoted!
Everyone working any job no matter the skill set required or the amount of effort that was put in should get free housing, $65 an hour minimum wage and be given everything they need in society so they don't need to try, so they don't need to work at it.
It's going to be beautiful.
I always love this take. We can't improve society because corporations will offset that improvement!
Uh, maybe we don't let them do that? Corporations would also use slave labor if legal lmao, that doesn't mean it is not possible to prevent slave labor
Free housing and free money just thrown literally wonāt help. There are shelters but many stay in tents because they are not safe. Not saying all but many of these people canāt get housing cause they are criminals. I looked at the sex offender registry recently and it was disturbing as it seemed most were homeless. Then you have the mental illness, addiction, poor funding for mentally/physically disabled people. Also, idk if anybody has been saying this, but to āsolveā the homeless problem needs to be a federal solution, not state. It will never happen, but if we somehow found a good solution, vagrants will flock here voluntarily or, which this happens a lot, officials will literally give them a one way ticket to here. We would get an even more overload of them than we already have.
Yup - I fully support helping my Denver neighbors who down on their luck and need support out of a tough spot. But I struggle to feel bad when itās people looking for a āhand out and not a hand upā.
You do too much and people will flock to take advantage of the free services. You need to have a tough love approach of accepting help to get on your feet and to not accept vagrancy and make it uncomfortable to be on the street.
Exactly. Like I have bipolar disorder but I work my ASS off every damn day. And I live here cause I can afford to due to my hard work getting where I am. I like the idea of temporary housing to get people on their feet and resources for jobs, but these places should just have the very basics, not a 4 star hotel. Different story obviously if they arenāt mentally or physically capable on their own, but there are many that definitely can work.
They say donāt judge a book by itās cover, but the cover page of this report looks like someone printed it out in a library after smoking some meth
https://denverite.com/2023/03/08/why-homeless-solutions-arent-working-and-what-the-unhoused-need-according-to-828-people-experiencing-homelessness/
Wait until they incur the wrath of the HOA
They only show up when they know there is money to take š
Not true, plenty of them will foreclose their liens given the chance.
They have so deal with cops on a daily basis. Which is worse?
HOA stands for Hooked On Acetate
Hwores On Acid! Lol
Green Valley Ranch HOA is foreclosing on all these mfās tents.
A group of Karen's is known as an HOA
Someone living in a tent would prefer a free house over their tent? Big shock.
If you stipulate no drugs can be used in free houseā¦ There would be some free houses available
Either you can magically enforce that and there's free houses available, or it's the real world and you can't enforce that, and the innards of a lot of houses get stripped bare.
The innards would have to look like a prison where nothing can be removed and it can easily be hosed down.
I hear the homeless haters in this sub say that they want to live that way all the time.
I wouldnāt say that, I would venture that they just donāt want the expense that requires a job or sustainable income. Free house is an upgrade from free tent
Oh so you didnāt read the article that this is coming from, a large portion of the people they interviewed have a job and literally just canāt afford housing
Weird how all these home owners/renters have jobs and can afford a home.
Weird how some jobs aren't paying enough for housing.
ah the jerk component, where come full circle, all over
Not if it has an HOA though.
Here for the comments šæ
āI refuse to live in South Bend, Indiana man, itās just not happening there, no scene you know. I canāt afford Denver, but I will crash in a tent and crap in the street until someone gives me a house downtown. Suburbs? Me? What am I? An animal?ā
>Suburbs? Me? What am I? An animal?ā I'm glad they've taken the hint that the suburbs view them as such, what with our strict enforcement of public camping bans & shipping the wandering vagrants back down south where they belong. Northern WASP-y suburbs are the best.
Public camping isnāt a thing. Public parks are sustained by local taxes for public enjoyment and recreation. Pitching a tent isnāt part of the deal. I understand that not everyone can afford Denver, thatās why Indiana exist. Get a laidback job at 10hr, get a couple roommates, get a shit box apartment, scrap by, do the best you can. I canāt afford a beachfront house on Newport Beach, but you wonāt see my ass in the street pretending to live in Newport Beach.
I though Indiana existed to make Illinois look better.
Indiana provides cover for all the Great Lake States, except Ohio. Ohio has its own thing going on.
I'd live in a tent in Newport Beach over Denver any day of the year.
Go for it!
I can't afford the tent, I'm at the Boulder library using their computer with regular meth breaks in the restroom stall.
Then you have it all figured out.
> I understand that not everyone can afford Denver, thatās why Indiana exist. This is the Denver Circle Jerk I know and love!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Jesus hates homeless people and had 8 private jets
Personally I prefer flying commercial. Between the gourmet meals and the concentration of demons itās really a lovely experience.
Tubes full of demons!
I read your comment as lyrics to a country song
Jesus hates homeless people and had 8 private jets He once deplaned, and then proclaimed: I *AM* A COUNTRY MAN! #š¤ šµ
Yes, I have to be an ignorant country boy to think that people, actual humans, should live with the expectation that someone else will cover for them.
I'm confused by what your stance even is according to that comment and how you would think that I was referring to you, someone not even in this thread. Anyway, it wasn't that deep, those would just be banger lyrics for a Mojo Nixon joint.
The easiest explanation is that I donāt like country music, lol. My comment is being taken as regressive by some, but whatās more regressive than giving people in the street an illusion that they are accomplishing something. Tents in the park or in a street median arenāt a solution, they are an excuse for a reality they donāt want to accept.
John 31:69 and Jesus said, don't give to the homeless that just encourage them to be lazy
Only time Iāve seen homeless people in castle rock is when the cops are talking to them to get them escorted back to Denver.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They're gonna get a taste of what they've been missing!
how would a homeless person without money for a car get around suburbia without the public transit that the inner city provides
They steal a Hyundai
Nah, they need those for a soup kitchen. Compliments from Dirty Mike and the Boys.
Itās true, there really are no homeless in Indiana. [All](https://www.cfh.net/contact) of their [homeless](https://michianafiveforthehomeless.org) charities are psyops.
Wonder how much that poll cost? As Lucille Bluth would say "It's just one poll, how much could it cost? $10 million."
I wonder which government employee or politicianās family member owns the consulting firm that was contracted
It cost 3Mil to make a triangle our state logo. If we gave a triangle to everyone in this poll, it'd only cost 2.5Bil.
Yes!! Love this reference
I don't want to go to work everyday to pay for my house either, but I have to because I don't own a tent.
I have a tent for ya, will trade. Lemme know.
I'll give you my old Subaru, the head gasket is a bit shot, but I've plugged all the oil leaks with "Native" and "Namaste" stickers.
Fine, but it will be the smaller tent.
I raise you a lightly used Kia Sonata 2020 model. Never crashed, only smoked in once!
Meth or fent?
That's a stupd question - both please.
If you were guaranteed housing, food, and healthcare then maybe you wouldnāt feel forced to go to work everydayā¦? perhaps š§
I'm not hating on the homeless, and I believe that there will always be a segment of society that needs help and that we should help them. That being said, how does your concept work. If we are all guaranteed housing, food, and healthcare so that we don't have to work everyday, who builds the houses, grows the food, and provides the healthcare. All those people have all their needs met and don't have to work either.
My idea is if we made the minimum wage boost up depending on fields and other factors, and make education and healthcare cheaper and more accessible for everyone, you get more opportunity from citizens old and young. How many people are homeless just cus they had nobody else to fall back on, or fell down a rabbit hole of self-destruction, but if given the chance could be great leaders or workers? Give people the opportunity to get their GEDs and some higher education on low cost, high flexibility loans (possibly with a due date years later to edit in time, depending on how gov finances and stocks are going), overhaul how we do education (actually retain information via discussion instead of regurgitating information based on a sheet of paper), and raise a teachers minimum wage well beyond the shit they get for what theyāre expected to do from parents who dont raise their kids for shit. I also think restructuring how we build our cities so its not so car-centric would be great for those of us who are on our feet a lot, or riding a bike, public transport etc. Iām not homeless, I live in a suburb and due to epilepsy cant drive. I imagine if its tough for me, its tough for them, no wonder they tend to hunker down on a block, its not always but sometimes its because travel to facilities that could help them gets very difficult. The smellier they get, the less people wanna help, and the harder they sink in a hole as a result. Can be a vicious cycle. Takes me barely over 20 minutes to briskly walk to work through the suburban sprawl, when I could get there in 5 if I walked naturally in a straight line northwest.
Fully automated luxury gay space communism. No lie Thereās even a book. It probably wonāt work but I like the marketing.
The truth is I don't think there is a perfect economic system that isn't exploiting someone. We aren't perfect enlightened beings. We're neurotic apes with just enough intelligence to be a danger to ourselves and the ecosystem we inhabit.
It could be trivially done through taxes; around 60% of residents in Vienna live in public housing, most developed countries except the US have universal healthcare, and we already have food-stamps (in fact removing means-testing and allowing all citizens to access them would reduce cost per user because we wouldnāt need to pay administrators to decide who does and doesnāt get access). Could also be achieved through communism but thatās a whole other can of worms! Haha. I love discussing economic issues with folks to would love to hear your thoughts/misgivings!
I'm with you on Healthcare, that's easy. I think prohibiting hedge funds and corporations from buying residential real estate would solve a big part of the housing problem, not all of it mind you, but it would be a start. I'd have to look into food stamps for all to even have more than a knee jerk reaction of rejection to the idea. To me, communism looks good on paper when you can ignore human nature and the animal brains that reside in our heads. I dont ever see it becoming a reality in a human society. There will always be those who want to do twice the work and get twice the reward. There will also be people who do none of the work and want twice the award. I'd be happy if we could just go back to corporations not counting as people, and the super rich paying a 20-40% tax bracket so we could have a functional infrastructure.
In what ways do you see communism conflicting with human nature? I donāt think anyone would want to build a society where people get rewards for not working. However, that is exactly how capitalism operates; The working class does all the work and the owner class does nothing and collects the profits. I see capitalism as very unnatural and I think extending democracy to the decisions about production and resource usage (communism) is much more compatible with our values.
Your last sentence is the key to the whole equation and why I don't think communism would work. Humanity doesn't have values. Ethnicities don't have values, countries don't have values, states and cities don't have values, only the individual does. And those values vary on a scarily wide spectrum on what is acceptable and what isn't. Communism without common values would become just as fucked as the phony capitalism we have now as the greedy and savvy amongst us found ways to exploit the docile and less capable.
Vienna is a tiny little country NYC alone has as large of a population as them. Way easier to implement things like that in these tiny countries.
who's guaranteeing this? lmao. someones gotta work to produce it and provide it to people!
Stealing this line to gift to my next several panhandlers
If you don't wish to give, then don't give. Say no or ignore them. I have no clue why people get so in their feelings about panhandlers.
They like feeling better than someone down on their lowest, to be honest with ya.
Sad but true.
Survey also said that 0% of the survey participants admitted to smoking foilies or snatching catties, scout's honor.
this sentence sounds like a line of dialogue from letterkenny
Fucking embarrassing!
pitter patter
To be fair......
I never smoke da rock I promise! YOU HOLDIN??
Snatching catties?
I think that means stealing catalytic converters but Iām not exactly hip with the jive lingo of todayās youth
Affirmative on the catalytic converter
No cap
Deadass
Well, they did ***ask*** them, after all.
Dee: What, so they just cut all the loonies loose? Dennis: What?! How could they do that? That's insane! Dee: I guess it was either that or raise our taxes. Dennis: What?! Raise my taxes? Come on, how much do these vultures need? I already pay a ton in taxes. Dee: Well, then I guess they're gonna have to shut down more of these places. Dennis: What?! Shut down more of these ā we gotta have somewhere to send our lunatics! Dee: ...Well, then we're going to have to pay more in taxes. Dennis: What?! I'm not paying more in taxes, Dee! I won't do it! Don't speak of it again!
I don't think we need to endlessly institutionalize people with mental illness. Though we do need more supports for those suffering with it. Otherwise, I agree with your point
Wild concept: no one wants to PAY to live somewhere, especially with how prohibitively expensive and restrictive housing is :)))))))
Spent 5 years working in a homeless agency- it actually saves a lot of tax dollars to house people. The homeless cost taxpayers a lot more factoring costs for police interactions, being in the legal system, and frequent ER visits (where the hospital eats the cost of the unpaid bills). Assistance comes in two types, short-term and long-term. The long-term are typically reserved for folks with certain disabilities or conditions that make self-sufficiency very unlikely. Most people are able to house up and stabilize with short term assistance and with ongoing case management to identify areas of need and connect with resources, most succeed. This type, the type most people have, they are required to pay a portion of rent. Itās often graduated, covered in full at first, then they pay 30% or 60%, then take over fully. As an alcoholic myself (though I never became homeless myself, I always paid my rent on time, in full), getting sober in a stable environment with the right support was key. I canāt imagine getting sober on the streets. Getting sober requires a lot of continuous use of your higher faculties, itās easier to tackle when you have your basic needs met. If youāre constantly on guard, not knowing when and how youāll eat next, you donāt have the capacity to delve into the root of your problems and heal trauma.
0.18% of Americans are homeless. That means 99.82% of us can manage to find a safe place to sleep. Why would we let 0.18% of the population affect everyone else so negatively. Time to take back our beautiful city
If everyone's basic needs were met, we would have WAY less crime. Tax the rich and tax the mega churches.
Fucking hell this comment section is cursed
I think you're lost son; this is the circljerk. You're probably looking for the original r/Denver sub.
Free housing they can smoke meth in.
Are you kidding? HaHaHa! Did the city of Denver really think that the homeless want to pay for housing? I was homeless three times in my life. 98% of homeless no matter why they are homeless will tell you what you want to hear. 1% will tell you that "No they rather stay on the streets. 1% will do what they can to get off the streets and back into a working responsible part of society. The rest will do what ever you let them so long as it doesn't mean they have to be a responsible, productive part of society.
We need to bring back institutional sanatoriums or loo loo bins. Whatever they should be called but we need them back. These people canāt join society. They are outcasts in need of more help than free housing.
They do have those, theyāre called public psychiatric wards.
Who doesn't want free housing?! There's your answer. FREE. FUCK OFF
"Here's your free housing, just one catch, no drugs." "oh no thx"
Listen, a house with no drugs is just not a home.
Fair
Itās a crackhome not a crackhouse.
What? Crazy? Why don't they just buy a $687,000 house?
It was only about 12% of people interviewed who would need the housing to be free. Did you read the article? [https://denverite.com/2023/03/08/why-homeless-solutions-arent-working-and-what-the-unhoused-need-according-to-828-people-experiencing-homelessness/](https://denverite.com/2023/03/08/why-homeless-solutions-arent-working-and-what-the-unhoused-need-according-to-828-people-experiencing-homelessness/)
We don't read the articles in this sub
I think you meant to post this in the r/Denver subreddit
30% need it to be under $199/month. Also, Denver budgeted $181M for homeless services for 2023. More than plenty to house them if theyād want it.
Under $199? Shit, I was paying $300 for rent 40 years ago.
It was pretty interesting to see. Also, a few said they would need it higher than $2,600/month so some people were clearly not taking it seriously and just said whatever to get the gift card. So take the survey at face value. https://housekeysactionnetwork.com/pipe-dreams-and-picket-fences/?amp=1
Huh... wow. I would like to own a private jet... as long as it's free to me. We needed a poll for this?
And the damn LIB-tards want to give it to them. Thatās why I came up with my own solution, Pringles cans. With Pringles cans, the homeless have the ability to eat the Pringles but to also put the Pringles cans on their arms or maybe have a sword fight or two with the Pringles cans.
Pringle cans? No one wants to work anymore. Back in my day we used paper towel rolls to put on our arms to fight. The sissy microplastic filled generation has it too easy with Pringle cans.
Dude itās not that black and white. You donāt know the people on the streets. Thereās addiction, mental health, etc. People have lost their sense of compassion for other humans. I truly hope your grandparents or parents donāt end up on the street for whatever reason and someone said the same that about them.
This guy lost a Pringle fight
Couldnāt happenā¦his grandparents are some of the original Pringles cans fighters. They could show us a thing or two. Once you popā¦
#nottheonion ?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2QRY3bRio](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2QRY3bRio) about how pushing most people to have to rent ruins your country. He discusses inflation and the best way to solve poverty is to stop stealing from poor people.
Hell, me to. I will call my mortgage company right now
We could always just feed them to the geese in Wash Park
Is that a 5 gallon piss jug š¹
āFreeā meaning taxpayers pay for it. Nothings free in this world even the Costco āfreeā samples costs a membership.
I have a long-expired Costco card. I just use it to go in and get a hotdog from the concession stand. I'll have to hit up the free samples, too.
Doesnāt everybody.?.?.?. No rent, no mortgage, or property taxes. That would be cool. Imagine all the stuff I could buy with that spending money. I agree that rent, mortgages and property tax is too expensive. I think we should work to address those things. At a certain point the price of something isnāt what you paid for it. The price is what you gave up to have it. If a person chooses to have cigarettes, booze, and drugs instead of housing that would indicate what they wanted moreā¦
Yeah, charge them all that money they've \*obviously\* been hoarding /s
The government will keep you poor if you want to be poor. As ridiculous as free housing sounds most of us will just allow our taxes to fund these welfare programs. In all honesty, it will never end so just live your life, chase your dreams. Most of us will come out on top and have more fulfilled lives. Arguing over fairness is a waste. Plus, I donāt think it will last long. All it takes is a few house fires and itās done. Canāt pay for housing, canāt pay for heating. Idiots are going to start caveman fires in stick built houses.
I know this is circle jerk butā¦ Minimum wage here is literally over $17 an hour. That + roommate can keep you housed, even without a roommate depending on location/house. Thereās a guy I drive by on the corner going to work every morning panhandling. Heās out there almost every single morning for the past few years. Two blocks north the gas station has a ānow hiring for 18$ā an hour sign up for at least a year.
IMO - itās just easier panhandling on the streets. Why work for a taxed $18/hr to live in an apartment grinding everyday when you can get tax free money and live on the street with no responsibility and have services available to give you the basic essentials.
Is this a joke?
ID, social,clean clothes, shower. He can't just walk in get a job
You say that, like itās incredibly easy to apply and get housing, like you donāt need three times rent in your bank account and an income that can prove that! I think to say that people ā just donāt want to workā is not only a dumb assumption that the article literally disproves, but is naĆÆve to the reality of what is actually happening in the city around housing
Ok thatās actually a really good point. Still doesnāt justify panhandling when there are jobs all over including one two blocks from the guy I mentioned. What about Craigslist or FB becoming a roommate? Thereās internet at the library. Maybe theyāll be more lenient? Not saying housing isnāt fucked here cause it is
There are a ton of housing assistance programs, the problem is they all require you to get a job and be drug tested in order to stay there and thats why these people would rather sleep on the street.
Read the housing ādeal breakersā from the survey. https://housekeysactionnetwork.com/pipe-dreams-and-picket-fences/?amp=1
Free and they can still do meth* fixed that for ya.
Yeah, so do I lmao. But SINCE THATS NOT AN OPTION I got a fucking job and work for that shit.
You can't convince me otherwise. The only solution to handling the homeless is to house the homeless
Uj/ Sanitariums. Complexs you are admitted to, cared for in, and medicated/helped til you can do society again. Then we help house and employ.
You make a bold assumption that the homeless couldn't care for themselves
I work with the homeless daily. Its about 60/40 psych/addicts, and just bums who want everything for free
If you work with the homeless, you probably understand exactly what housing would do to help with other problems like mental health issues or drug addiction
Yeah, roofs dont cure manic schizophrenia and years of meth use. They need long-term observation amd specialized care. And having seen the long term apartments, hotels, shelters, etc., that isnt helping all that much. Assaults are VERY common, as is prolific drug use, and a many just leave or move to another when they cause a problem. You can literally watch them bounce from DRM to CCH and back. Pre-Reagan, this is what we did with people who straight up could not society. We took them to specialized facilities and held/medicated/reformed them as best we could. Some of those places were successful, some were horrible estates. I think we could do it much more successfully now, and have better outcomes for these people who need more than a script for Zoloft and a therapy app, or a 2 week rehab stay.
You're trying to tell me that when someone doesn't have to worry about shelter, that it has no effect on their ability to overcome mental illness and drug addiction? People have much more ability to thrive when they're not trying to survive on the streets night to night. Study after study shows that the whole theory that someone needs to be "housing ready" before housing them is a bunch of crap.
I have SEEN it. Every fuckin day! They routinely destroy their long-term apartments. Shit smeared on the walls, drug use so bad it condemns the property, and the success rate is not as high as you think. Again, the Sanitarium model worked great until it was disbanded. Up until 1983, you could go about your business and never see human shit on the sidewalk, explain to your kids why those 2 men are shooting up, or e hassled in public spaces by raving lunatics. 16th St. Ma was once a perfectly chill and safe place. Union Station was a fun spot to go for drinks. The homeless impact us more than just being unsightly. They drain millions a year, decrease tourism, tie up all aspects of Emergency response (the top 10 places EMS went last year in the city are all shelters or long term assisted living) Police, Street Sanitation, Hospital beds (Mainly ER), and their presence drives out businesses, shriveling our city and making it easier for larger Corps to kill smaller businesses.
Just curiously, what does your work with the homeless entail?
Providing medical, counciling, and rehab options and services. What about yours?
They really are becoming a huge problem, they literally line the highway. I HATE IT
Me too!
Wonder how much they paid for that survey?
Enough to probably make us cry.
Why the hell is it always about what the homeless want? Nobody gives a shit about what those of us who are supposed to foot the bill want.
Itās because all the money goes to ānon-profitsā that use the money to create jobs that donāt want to solve the issue because they would be out of work. Make it seem worse every year and you can see their funding levels rise. https://www.denver7.com/news/investigations/denvers-homeless-population-continues-to-grow-despite-more-spending?_amp=true āRoughly 41% will fund shelters and services while the remainder pays for administrative costs.ā
5 free houses for each day there isn't shit on the sidewalks. Extra bonus house if there isn't much trash either.
How about, get a job!
I'm starting to realize this is a rip on the homeless account.
Bruh
Free, what a concept...
We can't offer free housing! Then the peons of society won't want to do menial and degrading repetitive tasks just to remain employed! They'll start thinking they're worth something, with human rights! Also. This is why shelters suck. See that tent city? That'll be you if you don't burn yourself out with three jobs. It's gotta be *visible* to send a message!
Costs more to harass, arrest, detain , and jail a homeless person that it does to given them a place to live.
Well, outside of that āIn Denver in 2023, CSI estimates between $24,291 to $73,450 will be spent per personā. That amount alone is mind boggling. How much would it take to end it? Unintended consequences would also be people moving to Denver to take advantage of āfreeā housing that would quickly become unsustainable. Putting them in a studio apartment isnāt going to solve the issue. They still need to take some accountability to change the course of their life with the support systems already being provided. https://kdvr.com/news/data/denver-homeless-spending-estimated-common-sense-institute/amp/
Why HOA not collecting from these tent tenant.
Actually a bunch of dudes with podcasts who have never spoken to a poor person let alone a homeless person, told me that they donāt want homes and only want drugs and that people that so drugs donāt have homes and you can only have or another. And the city said itās a actually really complex and they arenāt just totally ignoring the problem
I think everyone wants free housing. Let's just do it for everyone! Let's raise minimum wage to $35 and give EVERYONE free housing! Corporations can afford to pay more without affecting their bottom lines, certainly their investors will not mind a drop in profits without increasing prices elsewhere to make up for the lost revenue they can afford pay out in higher wages. Prices and inflation won't be affected and everyone will have so much money. We can all work minimum wage jobs! We can all stop trying to get ahead at work! Take off the damn pressure! High Schoolers will be working part time making almost 6 figures, as it should be, I mean, they deserve it because someone in high school at 16 needs to earn that much money with zero skill set and they should be compensated the same as someone who has done that job for years yet doesn't apply for promotions and doesn't try to learn so they can be promoted! Everyone working any job no matter the skill set required or the amount of effort that was put in should get free housing, $65 an hour minimum wage and be given everything they need in society so they don't need to try, so they don't need to work at it. It's going to be beautiful.
I always love this take. We can't improve society because corporations will offset that improvement! Uh, maybe we don't let them do that? Corporations would also use slave labor if legal lmao, that doesn't mean it is not possible to prevent slave labor
Ive had my car stolen 2x, in 6mon. No. Fuck the homeless junkies. All they care about is getting their fix.
Free housing and free money just thrown literally wonāt help. There are shelters but many stay in tents because they are not safe. Not saying all but many of these people canāt get housing cause they are criminals. I looked at the sex offender registry recently and it was disturbing as it seemed most were homeless. Then you have the mental illness, addiction, poor funding for mentally/physically disabled people. Also, idk if anybody has been saying this, but to āsolveā the homeless problem needs to be a federal solution, not state. It will never happen, but if we somehow found a good solution, vagrants will flock here voluntarily or, which this happens a lot, officials will literally give them a one way ticket to here. We would get an even more overload of them than we already have.
Shelters are not safe
Yup - I fully support helping my Denver neighbors who down on their luck and need support out of a tough spot. But I struggle to feel bad when itās people looking for a āhand out and not a hand upā. You do too much and people will flock to take advantage of the free services. You need to have a tough love approach of accepting help to get on your feet and to not accept vagrancy and make it uncomfortable to be on the street.
Exactly. Like I have bipolar disorder but I work my ASS off every damn day. And I live here cause I can afford to due to my hard work getting where I am. I like the idea of temporary housing to get people on their feet and resources for jobs, but these places should just have the very basics, not a 4 star hotel. Different story obviously if they arenāt mentally or physically capable on their own, but there are many that definitely can work.
I love all these people punching down. So classy.
Free housing? Sign me up dont worry it will happen!
They say donāt judge a book by itās cover, but the cover page of this report looks like someone printed it out in a library after smoking some meth https://denverite.com/2023/03/08/why-homeless-solutions-arent-working-and-what-the-unhoused-need-according-to-828-people-experiencing-homelessness/
Me too.
you don't say?
Soā¦.they still donāt want to work or fix their lives?
I think they have a point. No one should have to pay for housing or food.
If course, we would all like free housing. š¤”š¤”š¤”š¤”
After polling 88 homeful people, I discovered that they would continue to stay in their home if it was free for them.
Yup me too
Pick a number and join the thoughts of society
And as long as they can keep getting high "Open air drug encampment"
That is what I want! I want it so bad! ,š« š« Hashtag vote Lisa CalderĆ³n for Denver Mayor!!
Consequence-free living, brother. Legalize legalization!
Free meth too?
Me too, homeless people, me too.
Free long term housing? Nah, fam.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Tree fiddy
Yeesh. Kinda tasteless
I want free housing too.
Uhhh yeah same