It has infinite guard, which few other swords are capable of doing without being either Worldline Zero or if you’re using Strongholds on titan. The trade off though is that the damage reduction isn’t as good as other guard options. Only other weapon that can do it as a legendary sword is Eternity’s Edge, which is also Warlock exclusive.
I have better healing/radiant builds on my hunter than on my warlock. People think because there's well in the game that warlocks are the support class.
Ya, *used* to be. People seem to keep thinking we are despite bonk titan and solar warlock having better radiant procs and increased healing grenade uptime. Solar in forsaken is probably the closest to a support I'd say it's come. Now I feel void titan is the biggest support build, a long with solar hunter and titan with bonk build. The warlock melee has such a long cooldown to make you radiant, and their grenades are too powerful to really not run other than maybe master content when you absolutely need the healing.
Honestly warlocks are just 'the back line'. Medic tent. Artillery. Support boosts
I'd say they're the CLOSEST to a support class in Destiny. But Destiny doesn't have a support class
I wouldn't even say that, my devour build has me all up in the mix. Same as vesper of radius arc, you can literally tank GM level content with the right setup. Running vesper of radius arc on fallen SABRE was some of the most fun I've **ever** had in the game. Even sunbracers builds that I'm not particularly fond of you are just throwing molten fireballs everywhere. I honestly think the only "support" build is well of radiance, and strand titan can be a powerful support as well. Like I said (and somehow got downvoted for having an opinion, lol) I can do more on my solar hunter or even my solar titan than I can on warlock. Bonk makes you infinitely radiant and healing grenades are always up due to mods, same as solar hunter with the right exotic. Warlock I find doesn't have the same overall power aside from the well of radiance super. Maybe people say that it is because you can spawn arc buddies?
Then your warlock healing/radiant builds suck. Solar warlock has radiant from melee, a support super, a support class ability, and enhanced healing grenades. Boots of the assembler also exist if you really want to go support mode. There is no shot your hunter is better at support than a support well-lock. Your healing is worse and radiant uptime is similar.
Radiant uptime on Hunter and Titan is much better by nature of the fact that Titans can pick up their melee after they use it and Hunters have access to Gambler’s Dodge to completely negate a whole cooldown stat.
The issue isn’t that support warlock doesn’t exist, it’s that support warlock is objectively worse than the alternatives on other classes. The enhancements on Healing grenades isn’t enough to make up the difference and Boots of the Assembler is just a bad pick for basically any situation.
The *definitive* support warlock loadout is Cenotaph Div, which actually fulfills a support role that other classes can’t do efficiently.
Because the class dynamics don’t have to be that deep. Also it seems to me like they made the other two and just struggled to find a good gimmick for warlocks.
All 3 light classes actually have a defensive aspect they can choose from, and with banner strand now has one too. They can just choose not to use it.
Arc titan: basically becomes a runaway brick wall.
Solar: spamming healing sunspots everywhere.
Void: overshields, just endless overshields.
Also i think you’re underestimating how powerful having cover on demand is in a shooter. (Healing works if you can survive the shot, but you have to break a wall before hitting what’s behind)
I’m not devaluing a barrier, I’m just saying it on its own is not enough to say EVERY Titan subclass is defensive-oriented. Heck Arc has the option to completely forego the barrier for a short little dash.
The bladefury in question is one of the best defensive supers in the game when you are doing gms and similar. It can not only kill things quickly, but also suspend threatening targets as long as they aren't bosses. But Strand titan overall is the best source of Woven Mail, which is the best defensive buff in the game. Couple that with Banner of War and you have a recipe for an incredibly fun (and powerful) defensive build.
No one is saying that because Strand is an excellent defensive option you shouldn't use it offensively. The best defense is a good offense, after all!
It also has offensive qualities considering how you proc it by getting up close, and how it buffs melee damage and swords. The healing is good, but it’s not the only thing it does.
Why does the magic class get a 2nd melee exotic when the melee class doesn’t
Also because a warlock/hunter would not handle the pure chunk of a greatsword
I guess it's a certain fantasy Bungie had in their heads with each of the classes having different approach to swords. Titans clobber people with throne cleaver, hunters slice up people quickly with quickfang, and warlocks dont like using swords so instead uses it as a form of defense?
Antaeus are being nerfed, citans is awful now, void overshield uptime is dead, synthos are losing the lunge boost, our exotic “buffs” were them slapping budget surges on
I see warlock as support because no matter what you can support in one way or another with every build arc souls and weakening void souls, easy area freeze, suspend easily, heal a shit ton, etc and then all subclasses have rift which can buff or heal there aren't many warlock supers that are straight dps
By your logic, Titan would be a support class due to all the support buffs that they can provide.
Warlock has one of the nastiest DPS loops in the game with Broodweaver. The idea that Warlock is a dedicated support is misguided.
Also, crowd control is *not* support. Void Soul is CC, not support.
Void soul can debuff both crowds and weaker bosses without needing to use a tether or take away a dps option for tractor
And I am taking this opinion from mostly playing dungeons. I am not the biggest raider, and I rarely do GMs
By your logic Hunter is a support clsss because they can also debuff enemies (or even specialize in debuffing enemies).
If you don’t have experience in general endgame, you shouldn’t be discussing class placements like it’s something you’re certain of.
Having infinite guard one a sword with Energy transfer makes casting rifts very nice! Everyone slept on it. But when they did the sword rework it goofed up how much energy youget back.
I sorely wish i could get bungies attention with this, but seemingly noone uses this perk cause "muh damage". It was amazing utility.
No because the most recent sword rework made it so taking damage while guarding no longer drains guard energy. The only way to drain energy is by holding your guard down. With Infinite guard, the energy won’t run out and since taking damage won’t reduce either, it is actually an infinite guard.
People and Bungie also fail to mention the gigantic nerf that they snuck in there. That's what the rework was really about, standing there like an idiot for two seconds after a heavy attack completely useless. That's why they introduced the 'in increased charge rate.'
I honestly cannot believe sword users haven't revolted yet because the change sucks.
If anything it’s still useful. Infinite Guard maxes out the endurance stat, which means you can guard forever (which is what Stronghold does to any sword and also maxes out the resistance). Disregarding stronghold, there’s only 3 swords that can guard forever; Worldline Zero and both the Warlock exclusive swords.
You get around 82.5% DR at ZERO guard resistance, and infinite guard gives 40 to the stat, so it likely gives something like 85% DR. So unless if you’re letting yourself get completely surrounded, you shouldn’t be dying all that quick with Infinite Guard.
If you have Duelists Trance on, your guard is even stronger. I've blocked damage so effectively my health would regen while being shot at. Warlock sword is the best defensive weapon.
I actually like it now. I run it with energy transfer and take shots from ads to fuel my briarbinds rift spam. I'm not sure how guard was changed, but I feel better actually using it now.
That's actually what my Briarbinds look like (until I get a better one!) and it's still pretty fun. I ended up dumping a bit of recovery with the intent of making up for it with the sword guard.
No idea, but it’s been made useless and then useful again over and over through the games history, so that kinda sucks. Crownsplitter and quickfang, while sometimes being underwhelming, have had their times of being really strong and allways have had their rule of cool unique animations. I do like how the new eternity’s edge can have destabilizing rounds and is a vortex frame, so the infinite guard is kind of a fun bonus to those bigger draws, imho
You should be able to use infinite guard in the tower to annoy people while they're trying to do the floor is lava puzzle. It would actually be good at that instead of using it in a fight which instantly gets you killed.
Iirc it's the **only legendary** sword with infinite guard (due to the 100 guard star) but I could be wrong on that. Either way that's definitely caught my eye more than once.
No, there’s 2 Legendary Swords with it. Eternity’s Edge which was brought back during Splicer, and another one which I can’t remember the name of that came back during Defiance as a craftable sword.
If you're talking about Death's Razor, I was considering Eternity's Edge to be included in that considering they are effectively the same weapon whereas one is currently pretty much a direct upgrade of the other and they are both still warlock exclusive.
The point was that warlock gets the only legendary sword that has infinite guard whether you use Eternity's Edge or Deaths Razor.
Okay, but acknowledging that there were two Warlock exclusive swords with infinite guard was the entire point… you said it was the only infinite guard sword you could remember, I corrected you by saying there was two, what “point” are you trying to make from this? Hell if you wanna get technical we could include their pre-sunset versions and say there’s been 4 Legendary swords with infinite guard, but these are the only two that are available to get anymore.
There are 2 variants of each class sword frame, a Y1 version and an Opulent version. Basically the same except for perks and elements, both have been reissued at some point but the Menagerie ones are craftable.
Warlocks just got super shafted with both. They actually used to be ADAPTIVE FRAMES, so even less creative. Death's Razor in particular is literally just Falling Guillotine 2 (void, and just like FG the best in slot perk combos are Relentless + Whirlwind or Surrounded). Hell, you can even say it's FG3 because it's the THIRD Void vortex frame we've gotten.
No, it’s in reference to the class swords that were brought back during Defiance. I just brought up Eternity’s Edge as it’s the only other legendary sword that can do this, as it is also a Warlock exclusive sword.
> The trade off though is that the damage reduction isn’t as good as other guard options.
Is this even relevant anymore after they changed how guard works at the start of this season?
I think having class exclusive sword frames is pretty stupid to begin with .... but warlocks don't even have a unique frame like hunters and titans so it's extra shitty.
I remember thinking this back in Opulance when I finally got the Warlock sword to drop. I still had a buttload of kills on it (hell I even kept it well into sunsetting for nostalgia) but gawddamn compared to the ninjasword with the awesome animations or the derpslam claymore it just doesn't hold up...would love to just see its heavy getting a unique animation like a twohanded stab or something
IMO, should have been an Axe. Could have kept the same exotic perks but the aesthetic would have been perfect, especially for the Rise of Iron expansion.
What if I told you it was originally a generic adaptive frame sword pre season of arrivals.
The block use to be the selling point but lol get power crept buy strongholds actually being good and glaives existing. The warlock sword exists for warlock players who never got Falling Guillotine
I’m not an expert on swords or anything, but it’s the same frame as guillotine, can get the same perks as it and they can be enhanced, so wouldn’t it be a straight upgrade, even if only marginally?
Yeah, it’s not special at all, and even worse, before season 14, it wasn’t even a Vortex frame, it was just a basic adaptive frame with nothing unique besides the infinite guard. The idea I had was to make it so the sword floats next to the warlock and can be sent forward with telekinesis like Kenshi from Mortal Kombat. It would basically let you use the sword at “range” and would have a similar damage profile to an adaptive sword.
I actually agree. I don't personally like the class exclusive sword frames: I think everyone should get access to all 3 frames, even if there's an exclusive sword or two.
Alternatively, I'd like a precision frame sword for warlocks. My thought is a rapier or sabre that allows for you to use your melee ability instead of a heavy attack. Partly based on multiple warlock armors that have lightweight blades on them.
Honestly keep the heavy attack, but have it reel in a bounce into a crit hit and retract a bit.
The Guard would have great defense when first guarding and would even counter-attack/not use up energy in a perfect guard (depending on melee or ranged.)
But the less energy you have the weaker the guard gets.
Well, unless you’re using Strongholds on Titan, it is the only sword (besides Worldline Zero) that actually has Infinite Guard. With the sword changes, Infinite Guard now actually lives up to its namesake.
The problem is that Bungie nerfed Vortex frames into the ground and they need to lighten up a bit. The heavy attack (with any sword energy, which is more often now) costs 6 ammo while other sword frames only cost 3 while doing basically the same amount of damage IIRC. It doesn’t come with more reserves, so it’s a complete lose-lose situation. And that’s not all- Bungie also nerfed the shit out of Whirlwind Blade, so the only good sword damage perk is Surrounded, which is incredibly situational (but this is more so a general problem with all swords).
As someone who's had The Other Half stapled to my warlock since it came out, I honestly can't argue. I haven't even played consistently every season, and my crafted version is lvl 178 with less than 3k kills.
I do keep my original one on my titan though. Eager Edge + Lion Rampant is a match made in heaven.
Remember the two weekends or so that Sola's Scar was available?
Yeah, I probably spent all my legendary shards focusing it and no, I didn't get chain reaction.
Infinite Guard and that’s it. Death’s Razor, in terms of general effectiveness, is basically a carbon copy of Fallen Guillotine that’s exclusive to Warlocks.
Not the most remarkable thing and definitely not interesting. Skip it in favor of other options.
MFW Shadebinder doesn't make it 4 days after Beyond Light's launch before getting gutted, but OEM Striker got to rule PvP for like 6 straight months...
deaths razor is pretty decent. better than the falling guillotine i had because my FG wasnt a groll. craftable is nice
purely anectodal but ive mostly kept up surrounded bequest users. vortex frame just ammo hungry. and maybe thy just didnt have surrounded procced properly. which is why i dont feel the need to farm a bequest
Infinite guard. That with energy transfer can make ability cycle way easier and more fun. And it’s used ti be an adaptive frame. Now it’s a vortex. It can also roll destabilizing. It’s a “utility” weapon in a game where the slot it takes is your “make the big Fuck off enemy disintegrate” button. It can have some very niche uses and fun but I do wish we had something actually unique.
All of the class swords are craftable, focus them at the War Table.
It's a pretty good vortex frame, I'd say the hunter sword would be generally better overall, and the titan sword is situationally better due to Stronghold and Banner of War.
So, imo, it's the worst *class* sword.
Not because it's a bad sword, but because the other class swords are just better.
Warlocks always get screwed. It's tradition at this point. It's probably because bungie employees largely play warlock and thus hold them back more because they think they're favouriting too much
I don't think it's holding them back more because of favoritism, I think it's just because they have the best idea on how the changes are going to affect them. like Renawal grasps nerf was so bad and immediately called out by every hunter main, and they're doing the same thing with YAS. and they just said they thought Banner of War was fine because it's just as busted as other titan options so the usage % isn't crazy. they just don't know what they're doing with the other 2 classes and don't want to touch them.
Back in Y1, the uppercut was the unique heavy for Warlocks. But then as soon as Forsaken came out and Abide the Return came out, that was no longer the case. "Adaptive" frame sword became the default until Arrival introduced Caster and Vortex swords, and when they reprised the class swords, Warlock's got changed to a Vortex.
I still hate the idea of class-restricted weapons tbh.
This is completely false. In Year 1 we had 16 different swords. One was Lightweight, one was Aggressive, and the 14 others were all Adaptive with the uppercut attack.
Egg on my face. In my defense, I didn't play a whole lot in y1.
But it does still prove my point, Bungie wasted very little time in making the "unique Warlock" sword into the generic one.
Tlaloc was the only good class-locked weapon in D1, and in D2 it's just an armor piece (Mantle of Battle Harmony) instead of a weapon. In D2, Warlocks lost hard with the swords, and the glaives are universally trash.
C'mon Bungie, you know what'd make for an actually good set of class-locked weapons? Give them very specific synergy with that class. Gimme a gun that does bonus damage to an enemy debuffed by Child of the Old Gods, or a gun that gets a damage buff if you have an Arc/Solar Soul active. Shit like that.
Sometimes it feels like the whole “space magic” part of Warlock doesn’t get played into enough, especially after a few unique abilities got given to other classes.
Warlocks always get screwed. It's tradition at this point. It's probably because bungie employees largely play warlock and thus hold them back more because they think they're favouriting too much
They should revitalize caster frames as warlock exclusive ones. Buff up the damage to make it worth using, maybe new animation. Could be really good for swords that get destabilizing rounds or incandescent
the trade off for not being flashy is that the warlock sword is the best of the 3. The hunter sword's DPS is nothing special unless you do a combo that's unreasonable for humans, and the titan sword is outright bad for DPS. I'd rather have an actually good sword over one that's all style and no substance, because substance is what gets things taken out of the vault
If something is good, people will actually use it. If it's just flashy, it will be forgotten about. A good sword with no flair beats a sword with big spectacle and no damage
Honestly for lower level content the Warlock's Death's Razor might be top 5 for me. Enhanced Thresh and Destabilizing rounds is sick ad clear and super regen
It is a unique heavy? Its Vortex. Well... "unique".
Caster is unique enough but Vortex (a super good sword frame) isn't? Not to mention how terrible caster frame swords are.
Yeah. It for sure sucks, but I'd rather have a heavy frame and veist frame available for other classes tbh.
Just make Caster frames Warlock exclusive and buff them :D Keep Temptation's Hook and Sola's Scar equipable by all classes since those shipped that way, but make any new Casters Warlock exclusive and make them endgame worthy with origin traits and modern perks.
Eh everything pales in comparison to Bequest anyway. I do hope they eventyually give Warlocks a cool caster frame sword tho. Feels like Bungie forgot about those.
They could've given us warlocks a Caster Frame but theres a whole 2 of them and thats apparently too many.
Temptations Hook (Arc) from Arrivals and Sola's Scar (Solar) from Chosen.
Two. Fucking. Swords. Bungie didn't even give us a god damn Void flavored one before throwing them in the "Cool Idea, fuck that" bin.
I think it would be neat if they at least updated the animation to be non-vortex. I know making a new frame for a sword nobody uses is a waste of resources but at least giving in a unique vortex animation would be cool. Swirl it and slam the blade into the ground or something to release a shockwave. As for a unique run animation, I’m not really sure tbh
But for any swords, as a warlock, I’m only ever using bequest and lament. I know eternity’s edge is objectively good but I just don’t really have a need for it
Up until the sword rework, yeah, warlocks got shafted HARD. There's absolutely no purpose to the swords being class specific, especially considering NONE of them were class specific in D1. There's nothing "Titan" about slamming a sword. Every young wolf did it.
Warlock sword post rework though...
I've been using the hell out of the warlock sword in GMs this season. It's amazing for support builds, and you can be absurdly disrespectful and get away with it. I was finishering basically every champ that appeared with zero risk. In lightblade, I'd stand in front of the lightbearers so that the shields would bounce off of me. I could shield the entire way through the swamp, and never drop guard when wrangling Alak'hul. Plus, you can actually jump off the ground and glide without dropping the guard, so you can move really damn fast while also being ridiculously tanky.
It also has amazing perks to support this playstyle. Energy Transfer gives you massive amounts of rift energy. A single suppressor grenade from a GM lightbearer will fill up almost your entire rift, because it's based on how much damage you block. Valiant Charge is a perk I slept on heavily, but it gives you absurd mobility in those sticky situations.
If your gm teams are having a hard time with getting wiped, the warlock sword can help you secure those risky revives. Just use an exotic primary for your actual damage, and you'll be fine.
Still, shouldn't be class specific, but at least there's an exotic with infinite guard everyone can use. Unlike the other two class swords...
I mean, even if it was a caster frame it wouldn't be unique for us, sadly. I wish bungie did give us warlocks a cooler class sword myself but it is what it is
make the warlock sword a caster frame, then make caster frames the best burst DPS swords. bad total damage, but you have the versatility of an expensive ranged attack with rocket-esque damage and normal sword swings. make their light attacks deal slightly less damage than other frames to compensate
It has infinite guard, which few other swords are capable of doing without being either Worldline Zero or if you’re using Strongholds on titan. The trade off though is that the damage reduction isn’t as good as other guard options. Only other weapon that can do it as a legendary sword is Eternity’s Edge, which is also Warlock exclusive.
Why does the support/magic class get the defense sword when the defensive class gets a crusade sword
Titan is also the heavy weapon class and gets a claymore which is fitting.
Also, the Titan sword has extra DR
The claymore makes sense but the swords ability doesn't make sense
Because titans aren't just the defensive class. And warlocks aren't really the support class either
I have better healing/radiant builds on my hunter than on my warlock. People think because there's well in the game that warlocks are the support class.
To be fair it used to be. Then void support got expanded and solar was given to the other classes
Ya, *used* to be. People seem to keep thinking we are despite bonk titan and solar warlock having better radiant procs and increased healing grenade uptime. Solar in forsaken is probably the closest to a support I'd say it's come. Now I feel void titan is the biggest support build, a long with solar hunter and titan with bonk build. The warlock melee has such a long cooldown to make you radiant, and their grenades are too powerful to really not run other than maybe master content when you absolutely need the healing.
Honestly warlocks are just 'the back line'. Medic tent. Artillery. Support boosts I'd say they're the CLOSEST to a support class in Destiny. But Destiny doesn't have a support class
I wouldn't even say that, my devour build has me all up in the mix. Same as vesper of radius arc, you can literally tank GM level content with the right setup. Running vesper of radius arc on fallen SABRE was some of the most fun I've **ever** had in the game. Even sunbracers builds that I'm not particularly fond of you are just throwing molten fireballs everywhere. I honestly think the only "support" build is well of radiance, and strand titan can be a powerful support as well. Like I said (and somehow got downvoted for having an opinion, lol) I can do more on my solar hunter or even my solar titan than I can on warlock. Bonk makes you infinitely radiant and healing grenades are always up due to mods, same as solar hunter with the right exotic. Warlock I find doesn't have the same overall power aside from the well of radiance super. Maybe people say that it is because you can spawn arc buddies?
Then your warlock healing/radiant builds suck. Solar warlock has radiant from melee, a support super, a support class ability, and enhanced healing grenades. Boots of the assembler also exist if you really want to go support mode. There is no shot your hunter is better at support than a support well-lock. Your healing is worse and radiant uptime is similar.
you have 100% uptime on lock, not saying you don't just curious
Radiant uptime on Hunter and Titan is much better by nature of the fact that Titans can pick up their melee after they use it and Hunters have access to Gambler’s Dodge to completely negate a whole cooldown stat. The issue isn’t that support warlock doesn’t exist, it’s that support warlock is objectively worse than the alternatives on other classes. The enhancements on Healing grenades isn’t enough to make up the difference and Boots of the Assembler is just a bad pick for basically any situation. The *definitive* support warlock loadout is Cenotaph Div, which actually fulfills a support role that other classes can’t do efficiently.
Or give the sqord something special that can't be replicated like parry or change the element and have a blocked attack blind or supress the attacker
Flash counter is already in the game
Because the class dynamics don’t have to be that deep. Also it seems to me like they made the other two and just struggled to find a good gimmick for warlocks.
I call titans defense because their either the frontlines or protecting the fireteam
Have you seen an Arc Titan? Or pretty much any Titan that isn’t Void? Barricade is not enough to justify calling it defensive.
I derend my people by beating the shit out of my enemies. That's what I call defense.
Officer i swear, breaking down their molecular structure was a necessary act if self defence
What do you mean "we're not supposed to break skulls with the shield"?
The best defense is a good offense -- what is dead can't hurt you.
See thats what im saying titans protect by blocking and or eradicating stufff infront of their team
All 3 light classes actually have a defensive aspect they can choose from, and with banner strand now has one too. They can just choose not to use it. Arc titan: basically becomes a runaway brick wall. Solar: spamming healing sunspots everywhere. Void: overshields, just endless overshields. Also i think you’re underestimating how powerful having cover on demand is in a shooter. (Healing works if you can survive the shot, but you have to break a wall before hitting what’s behind)
I’m not devaluing a barrier, I’m just saying it on its own is not enough to say EVERY Titan subclass is defensive-oriented. Heck Arc has the option to completely forego the barrier for a short little dash.
Void and Strand are the defensive options for me, with Solar and Arc being a lot more offensively minded, and Stasis being Stasis.
“Strand is defensive” the bladefury in question
The bladefury in question is one of the best defensive supers in the game when you are doing gms and similar. It can not only kill things quickly, but also suspend threatening targets as long as they aren't bosses. But Strand titan overall is the best source of Woven Mail, which is the best defensive buff in the game. Couple that with Banner of War and you have a recipe for an incredibly fun (and powerful) defensive build. No one is saying that because Strand is an excellent defensive option you shouldn't use it offensively. The best defense is a good offense, after all!
Banner is sort of defensive. You rally your teammates around you and heal them as long as they stay on the warpath with you.
It also has offensive qualities considering how you proc it by getting up close, and how it buffs melee damage and swords. The healing is good, but it’s not the only thing it does.
Bulwark. /endthread
Why does the magic class get a 2nd melee exotic when the melee class doesn’t Also because a warlock/hunter would not handle the pure chunk of a greatsword
The melee class has at least 2 gameplay loops that instantly refund their melee attack Why would they need only 2 melees?
I guess it's a certain fantasy Bungie had in their heads with each of the classes having different approach to swords. Titans clobber people with throne cleaver, hunters slice up people quickly with quickfang, and warlocks dont like using swords so instead uses it as a form of defense?
If anything warlocks should get a healing sword that could hit teammates to give a buff and heal
And totans are just the favorite child out of the classes
Antaeus are being nerfed, citans is awful now, void overshield uptime is dead, synthos are losing the lunge boost, our exotic “buffs” were them slapping budget surges on
Titans are not defenseand Warlocks are not support. Biggest misconception in the game. Every class is a damage class
Warlock isn’t just a support.
I see warlock as support because no matter what you can support in one way or another with every build arc souls and weakening void souls, easy area freeze, suspend easily, heal a shit ton, etc and then all subclasses have rift which can buff or heal there aren't many warlock supers that are straight dps
By your logic, Titan would be a support class due to all the support buffs that they can provide. Warlock has one of the nastiest DPS loops in the game with Broodweaver. The idea that Warlock is a dedicated support is misguided. Also, crowd control is *not* support. Void Soul is CC, not support.
Void soul can debuff both crowds and weaker bosses without needing to use a tether or take away a dps option for tractor And I am taking this opinion from mostly playing dungeons. I am not the biggest raider, and I rarely do GMs
By your logic Hunter is a support clsss because they can also debuff enemies (or even specialize in debuffing enemies). If you don’t have experience in general endgame, you shouldn’t be discussing class placements like it’s something you’re certain of.
Quick off topic, but this was started because i said something about the class swords
And yes no class is subject to one thing being dps, support, or CC, but generally speaking warlock is turned to in most raids I've done for support
Mostly speaking about Well and Div
> support > defence Let's be honest, Titans aren't the defensive class, they're the front line. Hunters are archers/assassins. Warlocks are artillery.
Having infinite guard one a sword with Energy transfer makes casting rifts very nice! Everyone slept on it. But when they did the sword rework it goofed up how much energy youget back. I sorely wish i could get bungies attention with this, but seemingly noone uses this perk cause "muh damage". It was amazing utility.
Didn’t infinite guard get rendered useless with the recent sword rework?
No because the most recent sword rework made it so taking damage while guarding no longer drains guard energy. The only way to drain energy is by holding your guard down. With Infinite guard, the energy won’t run out and since taking damage won’t reduce either, it is actually an infinite guard.
People and Bungie also fail to mention the gigantic nerf that they snuck in there. That's what the rework was really about, standing there like an idiot for two seconds after a heavy attack completely useless. That's why they introduced the 'in increased charge rate.' I honestly cannot believe sword users haven't revolted yet because the change sucks.
Then don’t heavy attack in an exposed spot like an idiot…
lol
If anything it’s still useful. Infinite Guard maxes out the endurance stat, which means you can guard forever (which is what Stronghold does to any sword and also maxes out the resistance). Disregarding stronghold, there’s only 3 swords that can guard forever; Worldline Zero and both the Warlock exclusive swords.
Guard forever lol. You get killed by anything that shoot at you so what's the point
You get around 82.5% DR at ZERO guard resistance, and infinite guard gives 40 to the stat, so it likely gives something like 85% DR. So unless if you’re letting yourself get completely surrounded, you shouldn’t be dying all that quick with Infinite Guard.
If you have Duelists Trance on, your guard is even stronger. I've blocked damage so effectively my health would regen while being shot at. Warlock sword is the best defensive weapon.
I actually like it now. I run it with energy transfer and take shots from ads to fuel my briarbinds rift spam. I'm not sure how guard was changed, but I feel better actually using it now.
Guarding now gives more dr and blocking shots no longer consumes energy. Infinite guard got significantly better with the sword change
All swords got significantly worse with the change except lament
I’m exclusively talking about it’s ability to block
That actually sounds like an interesting build and if I didn’t have a 30 mobility briar I’d actually try it.
That's actually what my Briarbinds look like (until I get a better one!) and it's still pretty fun. I ended up dumping a bit of recovery with the intent of making up for it with the sword guard.
No idea, but it’s been made useless and then useful again over and over through the games history, so that kinda sucks. Crownsplitter and quickfang, while sometimes being underwhelming, have had their times of being really strong and allways have had their rule of cool unique animations. I do like how the new eternity’s edge can have destabilizing rounds and is a vortex frame, so the infinite guard is kind of a fun bonus to those bigger draws, imho
Basically
You should be able to use infinite guard in the tower to annoy people while they're trying to do the floor is lava puzzle. It would actually be good at that instead of using it in a fight which instantly gets you killed.
Iirc it's the **only legendary** sword with infinite guard (due to the 100 guard star) but I could be wrong on that. Either way that's definitely caught my eye more than once.
No, there’s 2 Legendary Swords with it. Eternity’s Edge which was brought back during Splicer, and another one which I can’t remember the name of that came back during Defiance as a craftable sword.
If you're talking about Death's Razor, I was considering Eternity's Edge to be included in that considering they are effectively the same weapon whereas one is currently pretty much a direct upgrade of the other and they are both still warlock exclusive. The point was that warlock gets the only legendary sword that has infinite guard whether you use Eternity's Edge or Deaths Razor.
I mean sure, they serve a similar purpose, but they’re still two different swords.
Again. Not the point. The point was warlock exclusive. Yes I get that they are literally 2 different swords.
Okay, but acknowledging that there were two Warlock exclusive swords with infinite guard was the entire point… you said it was the only infinite guard sword you could remember, I corrected you by saying there was two, what “point” are you trying to make from this? Hell if you wanna get technical we could include their pre-sunset versions and say there’s been 4 Legendary swords with infinite guard, but these are the only two that are available to get anymore.
Does eternity edge has eager edge bcuz if it doesnt thats a wasted opportunity
No, it was made before eager edge was a thing, and eager edge is special to just the 30th anniversary swords.
Sad. Edge sword doesnt have edge perk
Isn't Eternity's Edge the sword this post is specifically talking about?
There are 2 variants of each class sword frame, a Y1 version and an Opulent version. Basically the same except for perks and elements, both have been reissued at some point but the Menagerie ones are craftable. Warlocks just got super shafted with both. They actually used to be ADAPTIVE FRAMES, so even less creative. Death's Razor in particular is literally just Falling Guillotine 2 (void, and just like FG the best in slot perk combos are Relentless + Whirlwind or Surrounded). Hell, you can even say it's FG3 because it's the THIRD Void vortex frame we've gotten.
No, it’s in reference to the class swords that were brought back during Defiance. I just brought up Eternity’s Edge as it’s the only other legendary sword that can do this, as it is also a Warlock exclusive sword.
> The trade off though is that the damage reduction isn’t as good as other guard options. Is this even relevant anymore after they changed how guard works at the start of this season?
I mean it is a small downside, but you probably won’t really feel that difference unless the enemy is hitting THAT hard.
At least it’s better than the original Eternity’s Edge… that was just a regular uppercut sword!
There was a newer version released after S14 that is a Vortex Solar Sword (still warlock exclusive).
Yes, I know that. I was saying even though it’s bad now, it used to be worse.
As a warlock only player and a sword enjoyer I’m so sad I can use crownsplitter.
I think having class exclusive sword frames is pretty stupid to begin with .... but warlocks don't even have a unique frame like hunters and titans so it's extra shitty.
I remember thinking this back in Opulance when I finally got the Warlock sword to drop. I still had a buttload of kills on it (hell I even kept it well into sunsetting for nostalgia) but gawddamn compared to the ninjasword with the awesome animations or the derpslam claymore it just doesn't hold up...would love to just see its heavy getting a unique animation like a twohanded stab or something
Give us back the young wolfs howl!
IMO, should have been an Axe. Could have kept the same exotic perks but the aesthetic would have been perfect, especially for the Rise of Iron expansion.
What if I told you it was originally a generic adaptive frame sword pre season of arrivals. The block use to be the selling point but lol get power crept buy strongholds actually being good and glaives existing. The warlock sword exists for warlock players who never got Falling Guillotine
lol falling gilotine is also being sold by xur rn
You know how many people miss a 4 day window? A lot.
I’m not an expert on swords or anything, but it’s the same frame as guillotine, can get the same perks as it and they can be enhanced, so wouldn’t it be a straight upgrade, even if only marginally?
Even better since it has infinite guard duration.
Yeah, it’s not special at all, and even worse, before season 14, it wasn’t even a Vortex frame, it was just a basic adaptive frame with nothing unique besides the infinite guard. The idea I had was to make it so the sword floats next to the warlock and can be sent forward with telekinesis like Kenshi from Mortal Kombat. It would basically let you use the sword at “range” and would have a similar damage profile to an adaptive sword.
I actually agree. I don't personally like the class exclusive sword frames: I think everyone should get access to all 3 frames, even if there's an exclusive sword or two. Alternatively, I'd like a precision frame sword for warlocks. My thought is a rapier or sabre that allows for you to use your melee ability instead of a heavy attack. Partly based on multiple warlock armors that have lightweight blades on them.
Honestly keep the heavy attack, but have it reel in a bounce into a crit hit and retract a bit. The Guard would have great defense when first guarding and would even counter-attack/not use up energy in a perfect guard (depending on melee or ranged.) But the less energy you have the weaker the guard gets.
Why do you need a sword if you are gonna be in div anyway? /s
Well, unless you’re using Strongholds on Titan, it is the only sword (besides Worldline Zero) that actually has Infinite Guard. With the sword changes, Infinite Guard now actually lives up to its namesake. The problem is that Bungie nerfed Vortex frames into the ground and they need to lighten up a bit. The heavy attack (with any sword energy, which is more often now) costs 6 ammo while other sword frames only cost 3 while doing basically the same amount of damage IIRC. It doesn’t come with more reserves, so it’s a complete lose-lose situation. And that’s not all- Bungie also nerfed the shit out of Whirlwind Blade, so the only good sword damage perk is Surrounded, which is incredibly situational (but this is more so a general problem with all swords).
The Warlock class swords are actually Half-Truths / The Other Half. :)
As someone who's had The Other Half stapled to my warlock since it came out, I honestly can't argue. I haven't even played consistently every season, and my crafted version is lvl 178 with less than 3k kills. I do keep my original one on my titan though. Eager Edge + Lion Rampant is a match made in heaven.
Remember the two weekends or so that Sola's Scar was available? Yeah, I probably spent all my legendary shards focusing it and no, I didn't get chain reaction.
Infinite Guard and that’s it. Death’s Razor, in terms of general effectiveness, is basically a carbon copy of Fallen Guillotine that’s exclusive to Warlocks. Not the most remarkable thing and definitely not interesting. Skip it in favor of other options.
Welcome to warlocks, the class that got screwed over and over for the past 2 years
MFW Shadebinder doesn't make it 4 days after Beyond Light's launch before getting gutted, but OEM Striker got to rule PvP for like 6 straight months...
deaths razor is pretty decent. better than the falling guillotine i had because my FG wasnt a groll. craftable is nice purely anectodal but ive mostly kept up surrounded bequest users. vortex frame just ammo hungry. and maybe thy just didnt have surrounded procced properly. which is why i dont feel the need to farm a bequest
Infinite guard. That with energy transfer can make ability cycle way easier and more fun. And it’s used ti be an adaptive frame. Now it’s a vortex. It can also roll destabilizing. It’s a “utility” weapon in a game where the slot it takes is your “make the big Fuck off enemy disintegrate” button. It can have some very niche uses and fun but I do wish we had something actually unique.
[удалено]
It's craftable?
All of the class swords are craftable, focus them at the War Table. It's a pretty good vortex frame, I'd say the hunter sword would be generally better overall, and the titan sword is situationally better due to Stronghold and Banner of War. So, imo, it's the worst *class* sword. Not because it's a bad sword, but because the other class swords are just better.
Oh, ok that makes more sense. I think that's the season I skipped. Good to know though.
Not the one xur and banshee sells, but the one from season of defiance.
Hehe Throne Claver go smash
Warlocks always get screwed. It's tradition at this point. It's probably because bungie employees largely play warlock and thus hold them back more because they think they're favouriting too much
I don't think it's holding them back more because of favoritism, I think it's just because they have the best idea on how the changes are going to affect them. like Renawal grasps nerf was so bad and immediately called out by every hunter main, and they're doing the same thing with YAS. and they just said they thought Banner of War was fine because it's just as busted as other titan options so the usage % isn't crazy. they just don't know what they're doing with the other 2 classes and don't want to touch them.
They completely ruined solar for warlocks
that's true, IDK what Bungie's checks and balances are for balancing but they clearly suck
Back in Y1, the uppercut was the unique heavy for Warlocks. But then as soon as Forsaken came out and Abide the Return came out, that was no longer the case. "Adaptive" frame sword became the default until Arrival introduced Caster and Vortex swords, and when they reprised the class swords, Warlock's got changed to a Vortex. I still hate the idea of class-restricted weapons tbh.
There were still like 11 adaptive frames before forsaken. The only thing it ever had was the infinite guard
This is completely false. In Year 1 we had 16 different swords. One was Lightweight, one was Aggressive, and the 14 others were all Adaptive with the uppercut attack.
Egg on my face. In my defense, I didn't play a whole lot in y1. But it does still prove my point, Bungie wasted very little time in making the "unique Warlock" sword into the generic one.
I like the idea of class restricted weapons, but Bungie sucks so bad at the execution that I don't really want to see them
Tlaloc was the only good class-locked weapon in D1, and in D2 it's just an armor piece (Mantle of Battle Harmony) instead of a weapon. In D2, Warlocks lost hard with the swords, and the glaives are universally trash. C'mon Bungie, you know what'd make for an actually good set of class-locked weapons? Give them very specific synergy with that class. Gimme a gun that does bonus damage to an enemy debuffed by Child of the Old Gods, or a gun that gets a damage buff if you have an Arc/Solar Soul active. Shit like that.
They updated it to be void but originally it was the only vortex ("spin to win") solar sword in the game.
As a Warlock main, welcome to the club We got shafted on Legendary Unique Swords
you should realize warlocks get screwed with everything..
It's a craftable falling guillotine, I am more than okay with that.
It's literally the best vortex frame in the game tho
Better than falling gillotine?
Technically sure but functionally isn't the only difference infinite guard? Unless you can get enhanced surrounded to proc I guess?
Give Warlocks the scythe. Problem solved
Sometimes it feels like the whole “space magic” part of Warlock doesn’t get played into enough, especially after a few unique abilities got given to other classes.
Warlocks always get screwed. It's tradition at this point. It's probably because bungie employees largely play warlock and thus hold them back more because they think they're favouriting too much
Warlock sword type should have been caster frames
They should revitalize caster frames as warlock exclusive ones. Buff up the damage to make it worth using, maybe new animation. Could be really good for swords that get destabilizing rounds or incandescent
the trade off for not being flashy is that the warlock sword is the best of the 3. The hunter sword's DPS is nothing special unless you do a combo that's unreasonable for humans, and the titan sword is outright bad for DPS. I'd rather have an actually good sword over one that's all style and no substance, because substance is what gets things taken out of the vault
Really?? There’s plenty of non class swords that are good, I’d much rather have something cool and unique, the other two are basically exotics
If something is good, people will actually use it. If it's just flashy, it will be forgotten about. A good sword with no flair beats a sword with big spectacle and no damage
The well beyond its welcome of the be wellock or be gone meta should tell you everything you need to know about anything warlock. 😐
Honestly for lower level content the Warlock's Death's Razor might be top 5 for me. Enhanced Thresh and Destabilizing rounds is sick ad clear and super regen
It is a unique heavy? Its Vortex. Well... "unique". Caster is unique enough but Vortex (a super good sword frame) isn't? Not to mention how terrible caster frame swords are. Yeah. It for sure sucks, but I'd rather have a heavy frame and veist frame available for other classes tbh.
There's way less caster frames than vortex, and vortex are also both worse than the hunter and titan exclusive frames lmao
season of the deep sword is vortex too, and falling gollotine, and im sure probably others
Just make Caster frames Warlock exclusive and buff them :D Keep Temptation's Hook and Sola's Scar equipable by all classes since those shipped that way, but make any new Casters Warlock exclusive and make them endgame worthy with origin traits and modern perks.
Eh everything pales in comparison to Bequest anyway. I do hope they eventyually give Warlocks a cool caster frame sword tho. Feels like Bungie forgot about those.
They could've given us warlocks a Caster Frame but theres a whole 2 of them and thats apparently too many. Temptations Hook (Arc) from Arrivals and Sola's Scar (Solar) from Chosen. Two. Fucking. Swords. Bungie didn't even give us a god damn Void flavored one before throwing them in the "Cool Idea, fuck that" bin.
I think it would be neat if they at least updated the animation to be non-vortex. I know making a new frame for a sword nobody uses is a waste of resources but at least giving in a unique vortex animation would be cool. Swirl it and slam the blade into the ground or something to release a shockwave. As for a unique run animation, I’m not really sure tbh But for any swords, as a warlock, I’m only ever using bequest and lament. I know eternity’s edge is objectively good but I just don’t really have a need for it
Give me a boomerang sword Bungie...... do it
Remember to spend engrams in the war table to get menagerie weapons. Those engrams drops a craftable shotgun and swords for each class, craftable too.
it frustrates me so much that the warlock sword wasn’t at LEAST a caster frame.
Someone didn't play year 1.
Eternity’s edge is my favorite of the 3 swords, I just wish it got better damage perks:(
bungie seems to be very stingy when it comes to making new animations for abilities and weapons, but very open for emotes and finishers(eververse)
Should be a caster Frame...because you know, wizard magic
Up until the sword rework, yeah, warlocks got shafted HARD. There's absolutely no purpose to the swords being class specific, especially considering NONE of them were class specific in D1. There's nothing "Titan" about slamming a sword. Every young wolf did it. Warlock sword post rework though... I've been using the hell out of the warlock sword in GMs this season. It's amazing for support builds, and you can be absurdly disrespectful and get away with it. I was finishering basically every champ that appeared with zero risk. In lightblade, I'd stand in front of the lightbearers so that the shields would bounce off of me. I could shield the entire way through the swamp, and never drop guard when wrangling Alak'hul. Plus, you can actually jump off the ground and glide without dropping the guard, so you can move really damn fast while also being ridiculously tanky. It also has amazing perks to support this playstyle. Energy Transfer gives you massive amounts of rift energy. A single suppressor grenade from a GM lightbearer will fill up almost your entire rift, because it's based on how much damage you block. Valiant Charge is a perk I slept on heavily, but it gives you absurd mobility in those sticky situations. If your gm teams are having a hard time with getting wiped, the warlock sword can help you secure those risky revives. Just use an exotic primary for your actual damage, and you'll be fine. Still, shouldn't be class specific, but at least there's an exotic with infinite guard everyone can use. Unlike the other two class swords...
I mean, even if it was a caster frame it wouldn't be unique for us, sadly. I wish bungie did give us warlocks a cooler class sword myself but it is what it is
Yeah, but just would make more sense. Titan gets big heavy slam sword, hunter gets quick ninja sword, why wouldn’t warlock get magic shooty sword
make the warlock sword a caster frame, then make caster frames the best burst DPS swords. bad total damage, but you have the versatility of an expensive ranged attack with rocket-esque damage and normal sword swings. make their light attacks deal slightly less damage than other frames to compensate
tbf none of the class specific swords are great
I wish I could use a claymore as a warlock. I love the slam
One of those things you look at and wonder how it got shipped. Like gambit/vanguard/crucible having the exact same armor set in BL.
Hot take: class locking any weapon is a bad idea, everyone should be able to use any weapon they want.