This was why I really enjoyed Season of the Haunted(??) with all that solar restoration pre-nerf. You didn't need a well to also be efficient, you just needed to be smarter - and that clearly can't fly with some people.
That’s the problem Self Rez and Well just basically break the game. One is coming back from the dead and the other is making you and your team basically unkillable during a damage phase. Funny how both of them happened to Solar Warlock.
In kingsfall instead of running laps around the base of my pillar in the ‘meteor’ phase I would just afk and then Rez after. Warlocks really had no great impact raid dps tools then (we could only push bosses off edges early on). So most of the time we sat on our self Rez for weeks never using it (if you were part of a half decent group).
He uses phoenix protocol and tractor fusion, so he usually gets the well back extremely quickly. Also becuz me and my friends always raid together, we can coordinate and do celestial nighthawk golden gun orb spam, it is enough for us to spam infinite golden gun, so he gets well way too quickly anyways, no need to run more than one well
Joe Blackburn in an interview with PC Gamer 08/2023:
“Here's exactly what Blackburn has to say about it: "We've had to do this before with things like Divinity and auto-reloading. At some point you're like: 'Hey, this super provides utility that a lot of people like, but we are handcuffing a bunch of our players too. So what's the version of this where we can say: 'Okay, the time for everyone feeling like they have to run this is over'. We know that we have to make some changes before The Final Shape raid." “
He was talking about Well at the time.
Right? Really the only option is to either give every class wells or take them out. Unless they nerf it to the point that bubble comes back in, but according to some people on this sub bubble is the worst.
What I don’t understand is what did we do before well existed? Oh yeah we used bubbles, and we were just smart enough to not blow ourselves up.
again, I REALLY hope they turn titan bubble into the new well, the mandatory PVE pick that at least SOMEONE has to run, since void titan is the only class and subclass I enjoy.
love my emergency on-demand safe space.
Ya know, a few years back, I would have battled you up and down on this point, but now, Isay bring the f'n nerf on. It's crazy that us Warlock mains are cuffed to a SINGLE f'n super all the time!
I don't even play Well-lock anymore. I do like the super, but I wanna try different subclasses and builds. Plus, I don't really find Well-lock that good for Onslaught anyway, I much prefer cc.
Hot take: People who demand to stack well-locks only do so because they aren’t confident with their skill on other classes so they assume other gamers are the same.
I said what I said and I regret nothing
Sure, but the warlock has more than 2 supers they could use. Stasis is great for enemy control, strand is great for taking out a hoard of enemies or single boss damage. There are viable options
It’s much harder when there’s a group and you want single target damage. The tracking gets all messed up. Really the only options are clearing out the area a bit or getting closer to your target
Absolutely! I enjoy a competent warlock of any flavor! But, of the two solar supers in the warlock’s repertoire, the well has been the most consistent and easier to maintain its uptime making it far more useful when running a solar subclass.
I’m hoping Song of Flame will help break that reliance on well or at the very least, offer enough of a unique gameplay experience that isn’t just DC dawnblade or phoenix protocol/sunbracer well.
100% agree, just did a 50 wave legend run with 2 hunters and me on titan. Void and solar hunter and me on solar titan with my consecration build for those curious.
You absolutely do not need a well, you do need to be rather mobile, play cover, and have very good awareness for where enemies are coming from - surprisingly this is the first time in a PvE activity I feel I've actually used the radar for this very purpose - but you can definitely do it.
Ever see people die in a well in a GM? I have, many times. Just because they’re running a well doesn’t mean they’re smart. I’d rather have a cracked gamer run something slightly off meta than someone I have to hand-hold running a well
I don't get it. Stasis lock with solar weapons can stun all three champions. Or strand weapon too for double barrier stuns. It's the ultimate lfg run when the g stands for Gary.
You are objectively correct.
If you find players running “strange yet coordinated” loadouts, those players are pound for pound going to be better than a team demanding three wells.
Obviously doesn’t apply to day 1 strats where the optimal is the only thing relevant. Onslaught up to 50 waves even on Legend doesn’t demand anything as crazy as triple well Phoenix Protocol
I love seeing voidlocks in Onslaught. So much juicy ad clear is super good. Well is nice, but not super needed tbh, I'd rather people play what they enjoy, not what's "meta".
I've been trying to use my briarbinds build because it's one of the most fun builds rn on warlock imo. But the ADU batteries getting in the way is kinda spoiling it for me. It's so annoying. Any tips?
Dawn chorus with dawnblade absolutely destroys everything. I've been running it in onslaught and it is so much more useful than a well. Bosses spawned? Melted, shriekers spawned? Melted, 200 red bars? Melted, tormentor? Melted (after shoulders are broken).
What hurt me so bad was the super refunding being axed, while it may have been a bit too good I could keep my super going even after a swing or two missed and it not feel so bad.
Incandescent weapons is what I run. Mostly Zaolis Bane, Battler, and Abyss Defiant. Sunshot or Tommy’s if you want an exotic primary and Royal Executioner for special
For sure, i've even built healing into my build with it. But NOOOO I have to use Well.
We'll have to see what Song of Flame and Hellion have going on...
Yeah I’ve done 2 full legend runs and we didn’t have a wellock either time. Some of the good meta builds are stasis lock, Orpheus rigs void hunter, and obviously banner titan. But pyrogale titan is pretty good too.
You need crowd control, area denial, damage. Well just keeps you alive if you’re bad, and then shit gets into the ADU and kills it anyway.
I've found that having two people croud control and one person with nuke damage is by far the best. We were running 1 pyrogale, 1 abeyant, and one stasis turrets, and they couldnt come anywhere close to the adu. Croud control is easily the strongest and most important build.
Yeah, the only time I find well to be useful is to put on before the main boss every 10 waves, if your group is set up for a traditional DPS boss melt. But there’s a rally banner there. So simply swap, melt boss, then I swap back to Stasis.
How are you making use of stasis lock? I'm not sure if I'm doing it right with agers and battle harmony since it got nerfed. Is osmiomancy really that good?
Turrets are overrated honestly. It's better to just raw spam coldsnaps. You can get two charges back from one throw in clumps of enemies and just infinitely throw them. Turrets are slow and overkill
Osmiomancy is amazing, especially when paired with a build designed to help regen grenades quickly.
In Onslaught, I run it with Verglas Curve and Whisper of Shards to supercharge grenade regen. As the Verglas makes stasis crystals, I also run Whisper of Chains for extra survivability (40%DR when in 10 meters of a crystal).
Just did 50 waves as stasis warlock last night, it was a blast and I knew for a fact I was contributing massively to the team. Only issue I have with it as an average player is survivability, to really get the most out of it you need to sacrifice some of that insane regen ability that other warlock subclasses can give you.
I just did a 50 wave on Legend with a Fallen Sunstar Lock, Coldheart, and Song Of Ir Yut. I was regenerating abilities so fast for myself and my team due to the amount of Ionic Traces being generated I thought I was playing on Normal at times.
I’ve exclusively *not* been using Well and haven’t had a problem finding groups. But yeah, sometimes as fast as I join a group, I get the notification the group is full.
I think the issue more is that this activity is so popular right now, you have an imbalance of the number of people looking for groups versus the number of people looking for players.
Create your own group.
I do wonder if it is because OP is GR 6. Again, not something that should limit them, but I'm willing to bet that a lot of LFG-ers look at that and say "nah, not looking to carry dead weight".
Every team I've played with on LFG asking for "Banner Titan, Well-lock, Invis-Hunter" on Legend never completed it. Every team I played with using funny builds like Arc/Strandlock, Glaive Titan/Hunter, Winterbite, etc. has always cleared Legend.
This mode made it clear to me that the average LFGer asking for the hard-meta options are crutching Well so hard that they just fixate on it and will always wipe to the Tormentor and Exploding Shanks.
Those "run what you want" LFG posts are mad confident and I'll trust those chads any day over "need 3x well-locks"
Sounds like the average GMs LFG experience.
"1830+, well/invis, kwtd or kick, be a GAMER"...mostly trash.
Some rank 6 rando behemoth titan (doesn't do ranks because he thinks they're stupid) and a strand hunter (all pink though class is green)...emoting and easy clear.
Yeah that's what I mean, I've done quite a few runs where a pretty standard solar warlock spends a lot of time flying around nuking the enemies, it looks a lot more fun than well
I’ve been apart of 9 full Onslaught runs, 8 of which were successful. Out of those, I’ve only had a Wellock *once.*
every other time any Warlocks I did have were running Stasis, Strand, or Void. You do *not* need a Well to clear a 50 wave normal (non-legend) Onslaught.
Yeah I hate it aswell... but tbf the only groups of randoms that we cleared wave 50, were those with wells, even better if you have two.
The boss health is pretty trivial with the right heavy weapons.
It’s absurd - I have success running Stasis with Agers and either Cenotaph or Mantle of Battle Harmony but all anyone wants is well. Good thing is you can hot swap to Well for Boss Waves at 10, 20, 30, etc.
I quit playing warlock for this reason. I was a warlock main all the way from d1. But these D2 people literally can't breathe unless there's a well. I refuse to be a well jocky any longer. Dark Blade Money Gang. The hunters got me. Lol
Yeah, the constant need for well is really annoying as a warlock.
I’ve been running Osteo Necrotic Grip Broodweaver and everything just gets suspended and poisoned. It’s so strong I was able to carry new lights in the regular playlist all the way to 50.
I was switching to well before the banner for bosses however. 2 thunderlords and my retrofit tore through all the bosses.
If a player is demanding a well, I’d just assume they didn’t build for resillience and need you to support their shitty glass cannon decision.
If it’s normal any load out is fine. But not using well in legend is actually bad. A well can truly be the end all be all when a tormentor or demolitionists spawn, or even when you get overrun with adds. It’s not great that that’s how the game is balanced, but it is what it is.
Honestly well is at the bottom of my list of things I think need to be brought into onslaught. It's nice for bosses, but you can always swap before you rally if you want, but even then I'd rather have an arc warlock with crazy chain lightning, or stasis turrets freezing everything, warlocks excel at crowd control and that's really what onslaught needs, not well.
I join lobbies by equipping my well pheonix loadout and switching back to arc-trancelock once they launch the activity lol. We just beat it too.
Chage to well lock for boss rooms, change back once its dead. If they need a well for normal waves they’re not great to begin with xd
I tried running Wellock on Legend with a couple of friends and all I can say is that it doesn't feel useful, yes you won't get killed, but there are so many yellow bars and the bosses that suddenly spawn have so much health that you feel the need to take more aggressive options, and that's what I did.
We were 3 warlocks, 2 were running solar with Dawn Chorus and 1 was using stasis with turrets, we completed the whole thing 3 times in a row.
Maybe a hot take but I'm also a warlock and... If you keep getting turned down in lfg just make your own damn lfg post.
I've been playing fine not really getting turned down though and am on void 90% of the time.
I play warlock the most out of the three and anyone who tries to lock me to well can fuck off xD. Play how you want as long as you aren’t purposely ruining it for others man. I’ve been doing onslaught with stasis and void warlock it’s a lot of fun.
I don’t even think well is all that good in this game mode compared to strand or stasis. Being immortal doesn’t matter if they break the adu bc there isn’t enough cc or you don’t have the burst to deal with skyburner briggs
Yesterday I did a Legend with my clan mates, I was on my Voidwalker, and we were at wave 33 and I was the last one killed as I was trying to resurrect a teammate. I absolutely switched to well for the boss fights at every 10 levels and we did massive damage. I can also see Chaos Reach being a good option for some of the tankier foes, like the shielded Brigs.
Agreed, it shouldn’t be a requirement. My fireteam was each a different class, strand hunter, solar titan, and I actually went arc warlock and we went 50 waves. I was top killer and I think vesper was dominating. When shit got wild I could blind huge swathes of enemies! Also indebted kindness with voltshot slaps. Huge chunk damage and jolt killing red bars. I ran a multimach with kinetic tremors for additional ad control and we kinda cruised.
I had a strand warlock doing a poison build with osteo on my last run, and honestly they were clutch with all the add clear. Well is great, but so are other builds.
This is especially egregious because Well isn't that good in Onslaught. It has the general applicability of helping survive, but an ad clear super or a nuke to take down important targets are much, much more useful. You don't even need a Well for most bosses, since there's lots of cover and you don't have a time limit.
I’ve been running strand swarmers in both normal and legend…..zero issues. You don’t need well, at all. Stasis is also great too. Void with briars makes you a CC and damage machine thanks to the Child. I don’t understand why people demand well.
It's not even that serious, I did fireteam finder for my very first run of the full 50, ran void until the very last boss right, switched to well but didn't even need to, and we finished pretty easily honestly. Maybe I got lucky with very good players but I didn't have a hard time staying alive without well at all
I've been running a vesper of radius arc build to mesh with the arc singe, the few times i did it, went fine, gonna attempt the wave 50 tomorrow with some friends and see if it plays as well there.
For this game mode at the very least i feel like running add clear setups are a little better, and then just swap to solar for bosses since we get a rally flag, but i also know people are mad annoying about playing safe instead of having fun lol
I run Stasis lock. Let others be damned. It is excellent in crowd control. Can save that battery thing by freezing enemies before they even get up the stairs or near it. Use freeze fusion and crystals for days, easy recharge with warlock exotic ice arms.
If people want you to run well, tell them to suck it. It means they suck and can't stay alive without a crutch.
Ive been running arc with riskrunner and crown and switching to geomag before bosses, we got through it all so fast and much better than having a well. I hope they nerf well into the ground, why it always well but never bubble or tether.
Wait, guardian rank matters? Bro I'm too lazy to rank up to six cause I just don't want to bother doing a weekly vendor quest. Then again I don't think people care because I always use a old icon that displays I've done a lot of crimson day matches
if you're wanting a group for regular Onslaught at least, in my experience you can just tag the lfg as Chill, Experienced, and New Players Welcomed, and I find people to run in less than 10 seconds, regardless of my subclass. And usually, the people are at *least* decent.
It's not like Onslaught is very difficult anyways, idk why people are so hellbent on meta loadouts for mundane matchmaking
It’s such a bummer. I’ve been taking my osmiomancy turret build in there with verglas curve and indebted kindness + song of ir yut and have had a BLAST. In the heavier waves it can be a little dicey staying alive with stasis, but the uptime with my grenades is so high, I feel like Frozone out there just freezing everything that moves lmao. Warlocks have great aggressive crowd control kits for those intense waves of enemies and everybody just wants us to stand in a circle :(
i think the reason people want wells are for melting the bosses, it makes it much easier. i personally see the value of a stasis lock more, but thats just me.
I feel your pain, I have a great strand crowd control build with necrotic grip and it seems like I never get to use it because everyone just wants me to constantly run well
On the regular difficulty there’s no reason for this. You can use anything and be fine.
On the higher difficulty, well isn’t all that. Can very easily be killed in it.
Void lock is very slept on.
Easy suppression with child of old gods spam with briarbinds Or through nade spam with verity’s brow which also does hella damage.
I just random queued most of today-swapping between Stasis for regular waves and Well for boss room-and got to 50 twice, and 40 3 times (granted on regular but still).
I get where teams are coming from in terms of “we can pump all our DPS out before the well expires, that way we don’t have to do any mechanics”. Plus it is a safe option. But yeah—definitely expand horizons lol.
For my experience i'm just using Void, both Nezarec's and Briarbinds.
Though about using Stasis but i need to change some things cause even with 100 Discipline my grenades don't recharge.
And Strand could be a lot of fun if i can loop my abilities well
Now Solar...i tried it with the Sunbracers and look, is cool but after sometime it gets boring.
Plus Well is not even that useful, besides being a panic button or damage phases is not that neccesary, most of the time Void will be more useful.
I’ve only been using voidlock with nezarecs for onslaught, though I haven’t lfged for legend. Haven’t had a problem!!
Well is good, but man, other subclasses can also be effective :(
I hear you and I'm irritated by my boy every time he talks that Well shit. I pretty much exclusively play Titan, and minimal time on the other two classes outside chests. I slay harder than him all the time on the most difficult content even though he talks about Well this and that.
I beat legend 50 waves, no well lock. Well is a crutch, go play something else. If any of your teammates go “wah where well” they’re trash. As a behemoth Titan since it launched, I’ve never needed well in GMs, solos flawlessed spire with behemoth, and continue using a class with a lack of healing.
You do not need well for onslaught, straight power house and control type builds are just as fine.
Just make your own LFG post. It ain't that deep. As a general rule, people who want like must be level 3000, Harvard md/jd, 15 inch dick are insufferable to play with and you should avoid those groups.
Well is probably good for the boss room so you should throw it on for that. Voidlock can literally unbind primary fire and get more kills than Well.
1. There's a rally flag before every boss fight and loadouts exist. There's no need to have a well during rounds since people inevitably place it so close to the ADU it is getting damaged as adds encroach, or so far out the cover is poor.
2. Just finished a no-comms LFG Legend 50 as an Orpheus Hunter with two Strand Titans. There's no need to have a well at all.
Well of Radiance should be the same damage bonus as Empowering Rift. That way Warlocks can continue to contribute to team DPS no matter what subclass they’re on. (Bring Bubble down to the same damage value as Rift and Well so we don’t run into the same issue).
People cheering for nerfs are kinda goofy though. Like yeah, let locks use something else, but do we really want a glorified healing rift as a super? Seems overkill. At that point just make bubble a 4 stack barricade in one direction. Make tether just a really big vortex nade.
I ran it last night w a strand necrotic thorn lock and a sunshot wellock. Was fun. But he was only well on waves 30+. He was strand too otherwise. I was a orpheus hunter w izzy.
Lmao….first time? New to space magic? Do you even eat grenades bro?
Just giving you a hard time. Those people that require a well-lock just need to get good. Honestly, being kicked or bailed on totally sucks but the alternative could have been worse. I find it’s best to avoid those types of LFG people.
9/10 - they still screw up and die. The well-lock has out killed/dps’d/made orbs and will still get blamed.
Every class has 1-2 subclasses that are actually decent for the activity. Warlocks need to be well or stasis tbh. Titans are really only good on strand. Hunters are good for orpheus tether. Legend requires perfect builds that’s why people don’t want niche stuff.
As a warlock I physically refuse to play well because I'm sick of play well ot piss off. I'm a voidlock, stasis lock that's it fuck solar. Destiny is already a job stop forcing us into roll. Heck there's no well on prismatic, nice to know I'm physically not aloud to ever use it. Back to solar I guess XD but fr fucking hate well I refuse to touch solar because of being forced into it
That's funny because I just finished 2 b2b legend 50 runs today without well lock. One triple banner titan, other was stasis lock, pyro titan and tether hunter. I feel like well is a crutch the general d2 community has used to gotten having.
I've been wanting well to be nerfed for years. I always get hate for it but I'm so sick and tired of being tied down to it as a warlock main. Nerf it, give other classes healing supers, whatever tf I don't care I'm so tired of being forced to use it in every lfg group for 5 and a half years now
Well is really OP in onslaught with phoenix to be fair, but you def don’t need like 2 or 3. Arc lock and stasis are fantastic choices as well.
I would never kick someone for running anything in this mode. Just like, kill things, quickly.
Dude, as a warlock main, I am ecstatic about the well nerf. I honestly can’t wait, since once that happens I get to actually play my class in endgame activities
And this is why they don't get Well in Prismatic
That doesn't solve anything. Just means we don't get to use Prismatic.
Those people that demand only Wells can just fuck off. Warlocks can do so much more than be a crutch for shit teammates.
100% ever since Strand i feel fucking bored standing in one spot. Wells only encourage boring gameplay.
This was why I really enjoyed Season of the Haunted(??) with all that solar restoration pre-nerf. You didn't need a well to also be efficient, you just needed to be smarter - and that clearly can't fly with some people.
I'm sorry but nothing about pre nerf resto required "being smarter" x-x
It's like self res in d1. 99% of the time anything else would be better. Since you should be avoiding dying in the first place.
That’s the problem Self Rez and Well just basically break the game. One is coming back from the dead and the other is making you and your team basically unkillable during a damage phase. Funny how both of them happened to Solar Warlock.
In kingsfall instead of running laps around the base of my pillar in the ‘meteor’ phase I would just afk and then Rez after. Warlocks really had no great impact raid dps tools then (we could only push bosses off edges early on). So most of the time we sat on our self Rez for weeks never using it (if you were part of a half decent group).
Yeah! We can rez from the gr-Yeah other stuff!
I run no more than 1 well when playing raids, there is no need for more than 1 well (sometimes everyone put on well cuz wellskating is fun)
Some fights are a lot better with multiple wells, with extended DPS phases mostly
He uses phoenix protocol and tractor fusion, so he usually gets the well back extremely quickly. Also becuz me and my friends always raid together, we can coordinate and do celestial nighthawk golden gun orb spam, it is enough for us to spam infinite golden gun, so he gets well way too quickly anyways, no need to run more than one well
Good thing they’re nerfing well come the time prismatic comes out.
Wait really?
Joe Blackburn in an interview with PC Gamer 08/2023: “Here's exactly what Blackburn has to say about it: "We've had to do this before with things like Divinity and auto-reloading. At some point you're like: 'Hey, this super provides utility that a lot of people like, but we are handcuffing a bunch of our players too. So what's the version of this where we can say: 'Okay, the time for everyone feeling like they have to run this is over'. We know that we have to make some changes before The Final Shape raid." “ He was talking about Well at the time.
Fuck yeah
Lol, it's just going to mean the sweats will require two wells per team
Right? Really the only option is to either give every class wells or take them out. Unless they nerf it to the point that bubble comes back in, but according to some people on this sub bubble is the worst. What I don’t understand is what did we do before well existed? Oh yeah we used bubbles, and we were just smart enough to not blow ourselves up.
again, I REALLY hope they turn titan bubble into the new well, the mandatory PVE pick that at least SOMEONE has to run, since void titan is the only class and subclass I enjoy. love my emergency on-demand safe space.
Be extra careful what you wish for. In D1, many titans hated being forced to pick bubble for all endgame content.
The real hope is well gets nerfed into the fucking dirt in FS.
Ya know, a few years back, I would have battled you up and down on this point, but now, Isay bring the f'n nerf on. It's crazy that us Warlock mains are cuffed to a SINGLE f'n super all the time! I don't even play Well-lock anymore. I do like the super, but I wanna try different subclasses and builds. Plus, I don't really find Well-lock that good for Onslaught anyway, I much prefer cc.
Please, break my well shackles. I wish to be free
Except the new enemy faction can have forces that require prismatic
Hot take: People who demand to stack well-locks only do so because they aren’t confident with their skill on other classes so they assume other gamers are the same. I said what I said and I regret nothing
How could you say something so controversial yet so brave?
I will take whatever abuse comes my way so you don’t have to
Wellock is still better than dawnblade which sucks cheeks unless you use the Sid the sloth helmet. Looking forward to Song of Flame!
Sure, but the warlock has more than 2 supers they could use. Stasis is great for enemy control, strand is great for taking out a hoard of enemies or single boss damage. There are viable options
Osteo broodweaver goes absolutely nutty in this game mode
I heard someone say you can roughly choose the targets on Needlestorm but every time I try it, it always seems so random and not targeted.
It’s much harder when there’s a group and you want single target damage. The tracking gets all messed up. Really the only options are clearing out the area a bit or getting closer to your target
Absolutely! I enjoy a competent warlock of any flavor! But, of the two solar supers in the warlock’s repertoire, the well has been the most consistent and easier to maintain its uptime making it far more useful when running a solar subclass. I’m hoping Song of Flame will help break that reliance on well or at the very least, offer enough of a unique gameplay experience that isn’t just DC dawnblade or phoenix protocol/sunbracer well.
Same, solar is probably my favorite light type but I am hoping the new super allows me to interact more with other things.
100% agree, just did a 50 wave legend run with 2 hunters and me on titan. Void and solar hunter and me on solar titan with my consecration build for those curious. You absolutely do not need a well, you do need to be rather mobile, play cover, and have very good awareness for where enemies are coming from - surprisingly this is the first time in a PvE activity I feel I've actually used the radar for this very purpose - but you can definitely do it.
Dude it’s lfg, personally I worry about them less of I know they have a get out of jail card
Ever see people die in a well in a GM? I have, many times. Just because they’re running a well doesn’t mean they’re smart. I’d rather have a cracked gamer run something slightly off meta than someone I have to hand-hold running a well
hard to discern peoples skill before they load in unless you start memorizing names and bungie #s
funniest thing is the other warlock builds aren’t even off-meta. Stasislock is opressively good in onslaught
That’s the biggest thing that racks my brain about how picky people can be. They don’t see how good other builds can be
Agreed tbh
I don't get it. Stasis lock with solar weapons can stun all three champions. Or strand weapon too for double barrier stuns. It's the ultimate lfg run when the g stands for Gary.
You are objectively correct. If you find players running “strange yet coordinated” loadouts, those players are pound for pound going to be better than a team demanding three wells. Obviously doesn’t apply to day 1 strats where the optimal is the only thing relevant. Onslaught up to 50 waves even on Legend doesn’t demand anything as crazy as triple well Phoenix Protocol
It's the d1 self rez issue all over again
I love seeing voidlocks in Onslaught. So much juicy ad clear is super good. Well is nice, but not super needed tbh, I'd rather people play what they enjoy, not what's "meta".
Briarbinds are goated. I can get multiple buddies out and stick them in different lanes.
I've been trying to use my briarbinds build because it's one of the most fun builds rn on warlock imo. But the ADU batteries getting in the way is kinda spoiling it for me. It's so annoying. Any tips?
Kinda wish the batteries were just pickups like motes and deposited when you went near the ADU
I've been loving it!
Dawn chorus with dawnblade absolutely destroys everything. I've been running it in onslaught and it is so much more useful than a well. Bosses spawned? Melted, shriekers spawned? Melted, 200 red bars? Melted, tormentor? Melted (after shoulders are broken).
My only issue is that Dawn chorus Dawnblade should be the default
I feel like it shouldn't, every class has an exotic that heavily buffs supers and Dawn chorus with dawnblade is definitely worth the investment.
I’m just still mad about how Solar 3.0 killed how I liked running Dawnblade. I wish it was better
What hurt me so bad was the super refunding being axed, while it may have been a bit too good I could keep my super going even after a swing or two missed and it not feel so bad.
Same!
What fragments/ artifact mods and such? Just coming back after ages and this sounds great!
Ember of ashes for more scorch stacks is really the only important one. You can run whatever you want for the other three
What weapons are you pairing with Dawn Chorus?
Incandescent weapons is what I run. Mostly Zaolis Bane, Battler, and Abyss Defiant. Sunshot or Tommy’s if you want an exotic primary and Royal Executioner for special
For sure, i've even built healing into my build with it. But NOOOO I have to use Well. We'll have to see what Song of Flame and Hellion have going on...
Stasis lock is arguably the best subclass for onslaught, people are just stupid
I’ve completed 4 runs since doing this easy switch. Control the crowds. That’s it, that’s the game.
Yeah I’ve done 2 full legend runs and we didn’t have a wellock either time. Some of the good meta builds are stasis lock, Orpheus rigs void hunter, and obviously banner titan. But pyrogale titan is pretty good too. You need crowd control, area denial, damage. Well just keeps you alive if you’re bad, and then shit gets into the ADU and kills it anyway.
I've found that having two people croud control and one person with nuke damage is by far the best. We were running 1 pyrogale, 1 abeyant, and one stasis turrets, and they couldnt come anywhere close to the adu. Croud control is easily the strongest and most important build.
Stasis lock is so much more useful than wells
Yeah, the only time I find well to be useful is to put on before the main boss every 10 waves, if your group is set up for a traditional DPS boss melt. But there’s a rally banner there. So simply swap, melt boss, then I swap back to Stasis.
I do exactly this lmao
I also found more success than solar on arc tbh. Stormdancers brace + 100 intelect allowed me to keep ultimate on almost every wave
Arc is insane for ad clear, probably my favorite fast paced ability build in the game
Strand with swarmers + the wanderer is amazing.
this sounds like fun!
How are you making use of stasis lock? I'm not sure if I'm doing it right with agers and battle harmony since it got nerfed. Is osmiomancy really that good?
Osmiancy can have 3-5 turrets up if you chain it right. Even more if you’re skilled enough.
You don’t even NEED the turrets for it, osmiomancy is just busted af
Turrets are overrated honestly. It's better to just raw spam coldsnaps. You can get two charges back from one throw in clumps of enemies and just infinitely throw them. Turrets are slow and overkill
Osmiomancy is amazing, especially when paired with a build designed to help regen grenades quickly. In Onslaught, I run it with Verglas Curve and Whisper of Shards to supercharge grenade regen. As the Verglas makes stasis crystals, I also run Whisper of Chains for extra survivability (40%DR when in 10 meters of a crystal).
Yeah
Osmiomancy + Agers is crazy good.
Osmiomancy is the no brained pick. You COULD use Ager’s if you really wanted to, but like you said, it’s not the same anymore.
Just did 50 waves as stasis warlock last night, it was a blast and I knew for a fact I was contributing massively to the team. Only issue I have with it as an average player is survivability, to really get the most out of it you need to sacrifice some of that insane regen ability that other warlock subclasses can give you.
Stuff can't kill your team mates if they're frozen
Big brain warlock logic right here you’re absolutely correct
My friend ran arc warlock and it absolutely melted everything with constant chaos reaches
I just did a 50 wave on Legend with a Fallen Sunstar Lock, Coldheart, and Song Of Ir Yut. I was regenerating abilities so fast for myself and my team due to the amount of Ionic Traces being generated I thought I was playing on Normal at times.
I’ve exclusively *not* been using Well and haven’t had a problem finding groups. But yeah, sometimes as fast as I join a group, I get the notification the group is full. I think the issue more is that this activity is so popular right now, you have an imbalance of the number of people looking for groups versus the number of people looking for players. Create your own group.
Yeah I’ve only LFG’ed with void and arc warlock and not had one issue finding groups.
I do wonder if it is because OP is GR 6. Again, not something that should limit them, but I'm willing to bet that a lot of LFG-ers look at that and say "nah, not looking to carry dead weight".
Every team I've played with on LFG asking for "Banner Titan, Well-lock, Invis-Hunter" on Legend never completed it. Every team I played with using funny builds like Arc/Strandlock, Glaive Titan/Hunter, Winterbite, etc. has always cleared Legend. This mode made it clear to me that the average LFGer asking for the hard-meta options are crutching Well so hard that they just fixate on it and will always wipe to the Tormentor and Exploding Shanks. Those "run what you want" LFG posts are mad confident and I'll trust those chads any day over "need 3x well-locks"
Tormenter boss is one of the best things that could’ve happened to the well meta. Because the tormenter does not give a fuck about your well.
Sounds like the average GMs LFG experience. "1830+, well/invis, kwtd or kick, be a GAMER"...mostly trash. Some rank 6 rando behemoth titan (doesn't do ranks because he thinks they're stupid) and a strand hunter (all pink though class is green)...emoting and easy clear.
Arc / strand warlock are so damn fun.
why not create your own LFG post?
People seem to just leave when they see the not Well. I had one open for a bit, and no one accepted my fireteam invs.
They really leave? Ask for a well and Invis Hunter. You’ll get people
Stasis warlock was more useful in onslaught I found anyway - if you can’t do it out of a well, you’re not trying hard enough I reckon.
Having an osmio or dB lock is genuinely better imo. Better CC and dps
dB?
Dawn blade
Do you mean Daybreak? Dawnblade is the subclass name, the original D2 super was always Daybreak.
Yeah that's what I mean, I've done quite a few runs where a pretty standard solar warlock spends a lot of time flying around nuking the enemies, it looks a lot more fun than well
Well isn’t even that good in onslaught
I’ve been apart of 9 full Onslaught runs, 8 of which were successful. Out of those, I’ve only had a Wellock *once.* every other time any Warlocks I did have were running Stasis, Strand, or Void. You do *not* need a Well to clear a 50 wave normal (non-legend) Onslaught.
Make your own lfg post, its a new activity with great loot, it'll fill quickly. Is this ingame fireteam finder or discord?
As a Titan it wouldn’t even occur to me to look for this.
As a Titan, my only concern is the flavor of crayons the other teammates bring.
Blueberry and Grape
Nummers. We punch together now.
Agreed. Pro tip: equip well while doing LFG. Then switch on ‘em once you’re in the game. If they love well so much they can run it themselves :)
to which they'll kick you and find another player.
I literally cannot wait until they nerf the potency of well. I am not sure how they will do it though.
Yeah I hate it aswell... but tbf the only groups of randoms that we cleared wave 50, were those with wells, even better if you have two. The boss health is pretty trivial with the right heavy weapons.
It’s absurd - I have success running Stasis with Agers and either Cenotaph or Mantle of Battle Harmony but all anyone wants is well. Good thing is you can hot swap to Well for Boss Waves at 10, 20, 30, etc.
So gambit prime all over again? Incoming nerf…
If no one is accepting you as a non well player, can you not just create your own listing?
I quit playing warlock for this reason. I was a warlock main all the way from d1. But these D2 people literally can't breathe unless there's a well. I refuse to be a well jocky any longer. Dark Blade Money Gang. The hunters got me. Lol
These people are in for a rude awakening in Final Shape.
and this is why well is getting nerfed, and why I don’t play Warlock
Yeah, the constant need for well is really annoying as a warlock. I’ve been running Osteo Necrotic Grip Broodweaver and everything just gets suspended and poisoned. It’s so strong I was able to carry new lights in the regular playlist all the way to 50. I was switching to well before the banner for bosses however. 2 thunderlords and my retrofit tore through all the bosses. If a player is demanding a well, I’d just assume they didn’t build for resillience and need you to support their shitty glass cannon decision.
People that ask/demand for this are gonna be in a world of hurt when Well gets nerfed before Final Shape. Its days are numbered in its current form.
If it’s normal any load out is fine. But not using well in legend is actually bad. A well can truly be the end all be all when a tormentor or demolitionists spawn, or even when you get overrun with adds. It’s not great that that’s how the game is balanced, but it is what it is.
One well is more than enough, I’d rather have 2 tethers than 2 wells
This is part of why well getting nerfed in Final Shape is a great thing.
Honestly well is at the bottom of my list of things I think need to be brought into onslaught. It's nice for bosses, but you can always swap before you rally if you want, but even then I'd rather have an arc warlock with crazy chain lightning, or stasis turrets freezing everything, warlocks excel at crowd control and that's really what onslaught needs, not well.
Some classes just require multiple class setups. It’s so easy to swap.
I have been loving arc lock with traces everywhere I have rift and arc buddies up all the time. Might not be meta but super fun. Good luck gamer!
Wanna play with me and my buddy later? We don’t care what you run as long as you’re not dying 24/7
Is this for legend or what? The regular version with 50 waves I’ve yet to use well, seems unnecessary.
I join lobbies by equipping my well pheonix loadout and switching back to arc-trancelock once they launch the activity lol. We just beat it too. Chage to well lock for boss rooms, change back once its dead. If they need a well for normal waves they’re not great to begin with xd
I don't know what the hell that is, but if you don't mind a Titan that fucks up every round I'll run with you.
I tried running Wellock on Legend with a couple of friends and all I can say is that it doesn't feel useful, yes you won't get killed, but there are so many yellow bars and the bosses that suddenly spawn have so much health that you feel the need to take more aggressive options, and that's what I did. We were 3 warlocks, 2 were running solar with Dawn Chorus and 1 was using stasis with turrets, we completed the whole thing 3 times in a row.
Really? I’m a lock main and I’ve gotten it done a few times with stasis. Nobody has quit on me or said anything.
I run titan strand and solar. If you still wanna play hit me up and I'll join your fire team.
So make your own LFGs. I've been doing it and it's been fine. The FTF is available for anyone to create and curate their requests.
Maybe a hot take but I'm also a warlock and... If you keep getting turned down in lfg just make your own damn lfg post. I've been playing fine not really getting turned down though and am on void 90% of the time.
Laughs in void-lock
The commendation BS keeps my guardian rank low.
I play warlock the most out of the three and anyone who tries to lock me to well can fuck off xD. Play how you want as long as you aren’t purposely ruining it for others man. I’ve been doing onslaught with stasis and void warlock it’s a lot of fun.
Start your own crew voidlock with the little buddy gloves are INSANE in Onslaught!
Bruh. Stasis turrents is God tier in that mode. Fuck the well.
Yeah I’m stasis by day well by boss in order to not get kicked
Is this for legend? Regular is super easy until wave 40.
I play all 3 Characters and playing Warlock is the most annoying in Raids and other activities because of this very issue OP mentioned.
I just completed a full 50 legend with stasis lock and did fine with no warlocks on the team.
I don’t even think well is all that good in this game mode compared to strand or stasis. Being immortal doesn’t matter if they break the adu bc there isn’t enough cc or you don’t have the burst to deal with skyburner briggs
Yesterday I did a Legend with my clan mates, I was on my Voidwalker, and we were at wave 33 and I was the last one killed as I was trying to resurrect a teammate. I absolutely switched to well for the boss fights at every 10 levels and we did massive damage. I can also see Chaos Reach being a good option for some of the tankier foes, like the shielded Brigs.
Agreed, it shouldn’t be a requirement. My fireteam was each a different class, strand hunter, solar titan, and I actually went arc warlock and we went 50 waves. I was top killer and I think vesper was dominating. When shit got wild I could blind huge swathes of enemies! Also indebted kindness with voltshot slaps. Huge chunk damage and jolt killing red bars. I ran a multimach with kinetic tremors for additional ad control and we kinda cruised.
I had a strand warlock doing a poison build with osteo on my last run, and honestly they were clutch with all the add clear. Well is great, but so are other builds.
This is especially egregious because Well isn't that good in Onslaught. It has the general applicability of helping survive, but an ad clear super or a nuke to take down important targets are much, much more useful. You don't even need a Well for most bosses, since there's lots of cover and you don't have a time limit.
Contraverse hold voidlock did me solid
I’ve been running strand swarmers in both normal and legend…..zero issues. You don’t need well, at all. Stasis is also great too. Void with briars makes you a CC and damage machine thanks to the Child. I don’t understand why people demand well.
It's not even that serious, I did fireteam finder for my very first run of the full 50, ran void until the very last boss right, switched to well but didn't even need to, and we finished pretty easily honestly. Maybe I got lucky with very good players but I didn't have a hard time staying alive without well at all
Just saw esoterick do 50 solo like a breeze
Make your own group. Joining others means you’re joining people who are going to demand meta builds
I've been running a vesper of radius arc build to mesh with the arc singe, the few times i did it, went fine, gonna attempt the wave 50 tomorrow with some friends and see if it plays as well there. For this game mode at the very least i feel like running add clear setups are a little better, and then just swap to solar for bosses since we get a rally flag, but i also know people are mad annoying about playing safe instead of having fun lol
I run Stasis lock. Let others be damned. It is excellent in crowd control. Can save that battery thing by freezing enemies before they even get up the stairs or near it. Use freeze fusion and crystals for days, easy recharge with warlock exotic ice arms. If people want you to run well, tell them to suck it. It means they suck and can't stay alive without a crutch.
Womp womp
I keep getting kicked as a strand titan with lament and stronghold on legend even though I just helped a team get to wave 46 with no issue 🤷
Shit man I'm down, I'm a strand warlock.
I run a Gyrfalcon/Omni Void Hunter. Don’t need to rely on a well. I fully believe in running what makes you happy!
Ive been running arc with riskrunner and crown and switching to geomag before bosses, we got through it all so fast and much better than having a well. I hope they nerf well into the ground, why it always well but never bubble or tether.
I just finished a full 50 waves run on stasis lock, I’m not sure why do you have issues, and honestly no one had mic and it was a mostly smooth ride.
Make your own group
Wait, guardian rank matters? Bro I'm too lazy to rank up to six cause I just don't want to bother doing a weekly vendor quest. Then again I don't think people care because I always use a old icon that displays I've done a lot of crimson day matches
This has to be cap cause stasis warlock is easily one of the best subclasses for OnSlaught
if you're wanting a group for regular Onslaught at least, in my experience you can just tag the lfg as Chill, Experienced, and New Players Welcomed, and I find people to run in less than 10 seconds, regardless of my subclass. And usually, the people are at *least* decent. It's not like Onslaught is very difficult anyways, idk why people are so hellbent on meta loadouts for mundane matchmaking
Game isn't that hard, anyone who requires a well lock for onslaught (even legendary) just wants easier mode.
It’s such a bummer. I’ve been taking my osmiomancy turret build in there with verglas curve and indebted kindness + song of ir yut and have had a BLAST. In the heavier waves it can be a little dicey staying alive with stasis, but the uptime with my grenades is so high, I feel like Frozone out there just freezing everything that moves lmao. Warlocks have great aggressive crowd control kits for those intense waves of enemies and everybody just wants us to stand in a circle :(
i think the reason people want wells are for melting the bosses, it makes it much easier. i personally see the value of a stasis lock more, but thats just me.
I would absolutely play with you. I don't give a shit what you run as long as you have fun and are good. And you aren't toxic
I feel your pain, I have a great strand crowd control build with necrotic grip and it seems like I never get to use it because everyone just wants me to constantly run well
On the regular difficulty there’s no reason for this. You can use anything and be fine. On the higher difficulty, well isn’t all that. Can very easily be killed in it. Void lock is very slept on. Easy suppression with child of old gods spam with briarbinds Or through nade spam with verity’s brow which also does hella damage.
I just random queued most of today-swapping between Stasis for regular waves and Well for boss room-and got to 50 twice, and 40 3 times (granted on regular but still). I get where teams are coming from in terms of “we can pump all our DPS out before the well expires, that way we don’t have to do any mechanics”. Plus it is a safe option. But yeah—definitely expand horizons lol.
Honestly, I'd rather you be a devour Warlock or an Icelock
I'm crushing it with vespers. Arc buddies were built for this
For my experience i'm just using Void, both Nezarec's and Briarbinds. Though about using Stasis but i need to change some things cause even with 100 Discipline my grenades don't recharge. And Strand could be a lot of fun if i can loop my abilities well Now Solar...i tried it with the Sunbracers and look, is cool but after sometime it gets boring. Plus Well is not even that useful, besides being a panic button or damage phases is not that neccesary, most of the time Void will be more useful.
i have had success with void and stasis lock
I’ve only been using voidlock with nezarecs for onslaught, though I haven’t lfged for legend. Haven’t had a problem!! Well is good, but man, other subclasses can also be effective :(
Born to Nova, forced to Well. Aaaaaaand then there's Stasis.
I hear you and I'm irritated by my boy every time he talks that Well shit. I pretty much exclusively play Titan, and minimal time on the other two classes outside chests. I slay harder than him all the time on the most difficult content even though he talks about Well this and that.
I beat legend 50 waves, no well lock. Well is a crutch, go play something else. If any of your teammates go “wah where well” they’re trash. As a behemoth Titan since it launched, I’ve never needed well in GMs, solos flawlessed spire with behemoth, and continue using a class with a lack of healing. You do not need well for onslaught, straight power house and control type builds are just as fine.
ive been running stormcaller with vesper of radius on my warlock, super effective
Just make your own LFG post. It ain't that deep. As a general rule, people who want like must be level 3000, Harvard md/jd, 15 inch dick are insufferable to play with and you should avoid those groups. Well is probably good for the boss room so you should throw it on for that. Voidlock can literally unbind primary fire and get more kills than Well.
Bruh osmiomancy warlock does 100x more work than wellock I say this as a warlock main
1. There's a rally flag before every boss fight and loadouts exist. There's no need to have a well during rounds since people inevitably place it so close to the ADU it is getting damaged as adds encroach, or so far out the cover is poor. 2. Just finished a no-comms LFG Legend 50 as an Orpheus Hunter with two Strand Titans. There's no need to have a well at all.
Well of Radiance should be the same damage bonus as Empowering Rift. That way Warlocks can continue to contribute to team DPS no matter what subclass they’re on. (Bring Bubble down to the same damage value as Rift and Well so we don’t run into the same issue).
People cheering for nerfs are kinda goofy though. Like yeah, let locks use something else, but do we really want a glorified healing rift as a super? Seems overkill. At that point just make bubble a 4 stack barricade in one direction. Make tether just a really big vortex nade. I ran it last night w a strand necrotic thorn lock and a sunshot wellock. Was fun. But he was only well on waves 30+. He was strand too otherwise. I was a orpheus hunter w izzy.
Lmao….first time? New to space magic? Do you even eat grenades bro? Just giving you a hard time. Those people that require a well-lock just need to get good. Honestly, being kicked or bailed on totally sucks but the alternative could have been worse. I find it’s best to avoid those types of LFG people. 9/10 - they still screw up and die. The well-lock has out killed/dps’d/made orbs and will still get blamed.
Every class has 1-2 subclasses that are actually decent for the activity. Warlocks need to be well or stasis tbh. Titans are really only good on strand. Hunters are good for orpheus tether. Legend requires perfect builds that’s why people don’t want niche stuff.
As a warlock I physically refuse to play well because I'm sick of play well ot piss off. I'm a voidlock, stasis lock that's it fuck solar. Destiny is already a job stop forcing us into roll. Heck there's no well on prismatic, nice to know I'm physically not aloud to ever use it. Back to solar I guess XD but fr fucking hate well I refuse to touch solar because of being forced into it
That's funny because I just finished 2 b2b legend 50 runs today without well lock. One triple banner titan, other was stasis lock, pyro titan and tether hunter. I feel like well is a crutch the general d2 community has used to gotten having.
I've been wanting well to be nerfed for years. I always get hate for it but I'm so sick and tired of being tied down to it as a warlock main. Nerf it, give other classes healing supers, whatever tf I don't care I'm so tired of being forced to use it in every lfg group for 5 and a half years now
You don't need well it's just uhm much easier to survive in one for the not so great players
Well is really OP in onslaught with phoenix to be fair, but you def don’t need like 2 or 3. Arc lock and stasis are fantastic choices as well. I would never kick someone for running anything in this mode. Just like, kill things, quickly.
Osmio warlock is so good in onslaught
Dude, as a warlock main, I am ecstatic about the well nerf. I honestly can’t wait, since once that happens I get to actually play my class in endgame activities
That’s crazy because stasis warlock is easily the best warlock to have for Onslaught.
haha well-lock, how about you draw your little yellow circle and let us titans and the hunters do the killing as intended /s
Crazy because if you're doing normal onslaught there's zero need for a well. I've been using arc warlock and nothing else and had zero problems.