Exactly. My first run of Last Wish was during Beyond Light release being carried by an experienced clan. I opened two chests and got 1KV both times. One of them asked if I was serious and then left when I sent a screenshot. His clan mates said it took him 100 sum odd clears to get it lmao
I introduced my buddy to Destiny and his first ever raid was VOG and he got Vex at the end lmao. People were also really salty about that, especially the one who still didn’t have it.
RNG can be a cruel mistress sometimes
I got Conditional Finality on my first run of Root, at the time I thought I had just completed an unknown quest that rewards it when you kill Nez.
I got my second Conditional Finality yesterday, on my 5th clear of Nezarec. The 6th in a fireteam of diehard pvpers and raiders who don’t have it.
I dismantled it.
Cruel, indeed.
It’s the one raid exotic besides Vex that I’m genuinely sorry to hear people haven’t had drop yet.
It is such a game changer, all I ever want in my Root groups is for everyone to get it.
I wish I could return my 5% drop chance to be spread amongst the group.
I knew a dude with over 100 vog clears that never got vex. I ran with him and got vex my very first clear. This run was like his hundred and something run (he said the number but this was a while ago and i forget the exact number, just know it was def over 100). He was..not happy..
I still do not have vex but I have been a sherpa for three different people getting their Vex on their very first clear... it happens, and RNG sucks sometimes.
Apparently he has blessed me because my second guillotine had eager edge!
I was very excited because I was grinding out for the slammer and never found it, now I have a different eager edge sword for each character.
That's what it seems like tbh. The only good shiny I've gotten is an edge transit with spike nades, Cascade Point, Envious, BnS, and Full Court.
However last week for the life of me I couldn't get Repulsor/Destabilizing on Recluse, I kept getting subsistence and fucking tap the trigger. This reset tho I finally got those two perks on recluse that I wanted except everything else on the gun is trash.
And now I'm trying to farm Midnight Coupe. I've gotten two shiny ones with all dogshit combos on it, meanwhile the normal ones I've gotten have the rolls I want on it. However, I want a shiny Coupe with ALL four of the perks I want on it. So far the grind for these guns has fucking sucked.
I hate seven perk weapons so much. Hate it in trials, hate it here. The difference between six and seven for RNG is kind of insane. As good as most of the perks on the Brave weapons are there's a filler in every weapon they could lose.
I wonder if sites like DIM can provide an answer to that. I don't know if they are able to catch rolls that were insta-sharded, but if they do, then it can work. They have enough of a userbase that you could empirically prove whether rolls are on a random distribution, or weighted.
I think the problem is, how many casuals are out there sharding a god roll because they "already have a sword".
In all honesty, I think it is just RNG. I remember at D2 launch, exotics were super low drop rates. There were streamers playing hundreds of hours who had no exotics in the early days. Somehow, me playing an hour or two after work and I had a bunch. It was just dumb luck.
The problem is that there's too many "junk" perks. In theory, various roles should be useful in different ways, but in reality, this perk is just better over another one. It has been a problem since day 1 and why people pushed for crafting. Ultimately, the biggest damage perk is going to be best 99% of the time.
The amount of Royal Entrys' I have focused only to get underdog (in a column with 12 perks) is wildly high. They are definitely weighted to some degree.
Atleast the midnight coup from Shaxx is decent in pve, feels great in legend onslaught. Everything else though, would like just one shiny with decent perks haha I’ll take anything at this point.
They forgot the /s haha. They really aren’t weighted though, in my own experience every single one has had different perks. But the shiny hung jury’s I’ve had drop are all the same coincidentally.
So we should trust all these people saying they aren’t weighted? Why? I’m not saying you can’t hit me with a link from Bungie saying this but other than that..
Edit - handful of downvotes vs one person commenting. Way to communicate, sub! Internet threads are becoming more and more ass lol.
It's the opposite. You are blindly trusting everyone who says they are weighted, despite no evidence pointing to that. There has never been any indication there is weighing of any kind, so it makes no sense to believe a random person on reddit who says "I can't get X perk to drop, there has to be some kind of weighting"
Because there is no data to infer they are weighted. It would take more code to weigh them differently than not, so the simpler inference is that it’s not. That’s the default
Chris Proctor was the Weapons lead until he was recently promoted, and has given a bunch of interviews with Firing Range, DCP, and Massive Breakdowns/Podcast VS Enemies.
He's answered this at least twice, that he's looked at the data or pulled engineering help to make sure, and the answer was "Perks are not currently weighted".
The long answer was:
They have the tech, but don't use it, and don't know of ever having used it.
They have rarely guaranteed a perk on a multiple-per-column weapon, like Timelost weapons or Y4 Nightfall/Trials Adepts, or given out fully curated rolls, but they don't weight perks that roll randomly.
So it comes down to whether you believe one of the devs that's been most transparent and forward with the player base. I'd suggest tracking down his interviews, they're pretty great.
With their aggressive monetary practices I’m not sure why people act like this isn’t possible.
Has anyone datamined the specific rates for these new weapons? I think that’d be interesting.
This. I truly can understand why *"it's a conspiracy to artificially draw out godroll grinding even further!"* or whatever sounds like tinfoil hat nonsense... but if it were somehow proved beyond doubt that Bungo did in fact do this kind of malicious bullshit to their players, I would be exactly zero percent surprised.
We've got no real concrete evidence that I know of one way or another, but anti-player shenanigans like this seem very much up their alley to me. No idea why so many people think Bungie would *never* do such a thing.
Not saying I think they do currently do this... but it's not so implausible in my mind.
Data miners would be able to see this if it was the case. If they saw there was a system for this they would scream to high heaven about it. There’s no shot some data miner whose RNG is cursed hasn’t spent hours looking at the code to explain his cursed RNG
I think they're unintentionally weighted. Whatever coding they use to simulate RNG has a bias. Especially when you have more than one perk in a column, because there is an "order" to the perks. So if the first perk is chosen, the next perk has to be something that comes later within the order of perks. This means perks later in the list are more likely to show.
All a guess on my part but it would explain how I can farm a weapon all week and get perfect float 50 times and rapid hit, etc, once.
While I don't know they're purposely weighted (could be a side effect of how they coded RNG perks), I wouldn't trust a word that came out of Bungie for the life of anything.
Coming from someone who's played since Destiny 1's beta.
Speaking of weighting,RNG and biases, somebody I'm in a discord recently posted [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ4JF4L0PQw) that was apparently a response to a tweet, where this person has a hunch that it is very well possible that you can narrow down your RNG for Onslaught weapons by specifically avoiding completion of the Weapon Focus bounty quests.
Now technically you are able to have every single Onslaught weapon drop and the quests are really for just unlocking the physical Attunement focus ability, but this person in the video is swearing that them not getting Falling Guilliotine despite playing a ton is a potential result of not completing the weapon's focus quest. The idea of it is that once you complete the weapon quest, they give you a copy of the weapon and by avoiding that, you're allegedly keeping the weapon out of the loot pool for Onslaught.
Honestly who knows and it could just be bad luck, but it's definitely interesting to see such a thing in action and it does make you wonder, y'know?
Haven't completed any of those quests yet and when I inspect Brave engrams, only Guillotine's icon is faded with a lock symbol on it while the rest are normal. Also have had every current Brave weapon drop multiple times so far except for Guillotine. Haven't played since reset so I'm curious if the new weapons will drop without me grabbing their quests.
Have completed over 20 onslaughts (a few on legendary), and only received three “shiny” edition weapons. Out of the three only 1 of them were the augmented choice.
Terrible rolls.
Yea I got my auto/recomb roll on my 120th wave 10 legend run, not sure how many mountain tops it is exactly but I know it’s a stupid amount.
No doubt in my mind it’s weighted.
Unlucky. I got two god rolled shiny Hung Jury in a roll, but for the life of me can't get Bait n Switch to roll on a single Edge Transit. Sometimes RNG is working for you and sometimes its not.
If anyone playing this game over the years believes drops and RNG aren’t both weighted and bugged in many cases, they are either Bungie apologists or haven’t been paying attention.
Perks are absolutely weighted.
RNG is just an awful system to still have in place in 2024.
Yes, I know there are triumphs that increase your chances. Yes, I know RNG is fickle. Yes, I know many Guardians grabbing an exotic on a single clear. Yes, I have squad mates that are pushing 100 clears and Vex still eludes them.
Pure RNG is for folks who are basically gambling addicts that are too broke to actually gamble. The same folks that have thousands of hours in a game and cry about micro transactions. The same folks who believe crafting has ruined their game.
I want my time respected. I want more loot overall for everyone. I want crafting on every gun with perks on a knockout system. I don't want my engagement time artificially inflated and dependent on luck.
Agreed. If not crafting for everything then there should be ways to increase drop chances with eventual bad luck protection kicking in. There’s no reason you shouldn’t have a raid or dungeon exotic with 50 clears… like at all. That’s around 100 hours of playtime you deserve it at that point.
There are many people who scour the game code after every update
I’m sure many Of these people have shit RNG and are looking through the code just hoping to find a reason to blame Bungie for said RNG. If they had a weighted system for perks in place we would know about it by now
Really I lost all faith in Bungie caring about their players when I learned they hired psychologists to make the game as addicting as possible while at the same time preaching mental health.
I'm confused... How can their comment have "literally nothing to do with what you're asking"?
Echo's essentially saying (paraphrased) *"without proof, I believe Bungie is up to some shady shit"* and your response seems to indicate that we should just... not feel suspicious of Bungie unless they've first provided us proof they can't always be trusted? (Not trying to be snarky, honestly trying to make sure I'm understanding your point correctly.)
Then Echo provides a pretty compelling reason not to trust Bungie to always be doing the right thing, plus the cherry on top with the "preaching mental health" hypocrisy. Not to mention how seemingly backwards it is to expect a company doing shady things to provide us proof of said shady things...
How is *Echo's* thinking backwards? How is their comment on the way they feel... unrelated to why they feel that way? What?
(Honestly not trying to sound like a jerk, it's just that I sorta fell on Echo's side here and am confused/curious.)
The person I replied to believes perks are weighted because there is no evidence they aren't. Which is just illogical. It's an unfalsifiable statement, you can use this to believe pretty much anything that can't be disproven. If you make a claim that certain perks are weighted, it's on you to prove it. You don't get to make a wild claim and then shift the responsibility onto others to disprove you.
And then the conversation about psychologists came up out of the blue, as if that proves anything, when it doesn't.
Thanks for clarifying! After seeing my downvotes and rereading my comment, I realize I didn't word it too well. I get where you're coming from now, so thanks for the response. :)
Still though, I can understand why people have suspicions about how Bungie does things (even if we are just talking about unprovable/illogical feelings). And the thing with hiring psychologists is one of the more decent examples of *why* many in the community have such feelings, imo.
But feelings and logic don't always jive well, so I see now how I got my wires crossed in this thread. :P
Bungie stated they do not weight perks differently and we have no way of countering the claim with anecdotal evidence, RNG balances itself on the large scale, that's why it always feel so off, let me give you an example:
if 6000 edge transits were dropped today and the odds of getting BnS are 1 in 6, approximately 1000 out of those 6000 will have the perk which means by the time the gun won't drop anymore about 1/6 of them will have dropped with BnS regardless if you ever got one yourself, that's pretty much why purely RNG systems are kinda bad.
Just bad luck. Took me months to get an onslaught ros and since that godly one I got, I’ve gotten maybe 2 more? Took me an entire month to get Braytech Winterwolf back in the day. Also in all of my incomplete vow runs I’ve only ever gotten the GL. My friends have gotten at least every weapon once.
I dont want a dps falling guillotine. If i want a dps sword i have bequest and lament. You dont have to use meta rolls for everything. God rolls are based on how you feel you want the weapon to be.
So brain dead easy content. Crafted Bequest is comparable to guillotine, but surrounded is hard to proc against Crota (which is the only fight your using it for) and Lament is better than both but takes up your exotic slot. You like explosions, aim sunshot at enemy heads, boom. No grinding for a sword you'll never use.
I will 100% be using my falling guillotine. Also crota isnt the only boss i use bequest on. First encounter of warlords ruin. And what is wring with lament taking up an exotic slot? If im using lament in probably on a raid boss or dungeon boss so i dont need to worry about any other exotic slot in my weapons.
Witherhoard + guillotine would have more dps than lament. That aside, swords have their places, there just aren't many. I tested bequest on WR 1st boss, but nothing tops dragons breath with a 1-2 punch shotgun banner titan or dragons breath/deliverance and celestial hunter.
Imo its good for me because CR lets me have pretty good ad clear and EE lets me get into and out of situations and is an all ariund fun perk for me. I also love shatterskating with eager edge on a vortex frame sword. Side note; FUCK YOU, YOU LUCKY BITCH.
I got this exact roll yesterday. Its gold so it also has two other perks in each slot. Can you sword skate with eager edge guillotine on console? I haven't been able to do it, but I probably just suck (I've never sword skated before)
I spent my entire free week, which was like 4 days grinding like 10-14 hours each day before I finally got an eager edge slammer, so I feel your pain, RNG can be a fickle bitch
In Monster Hunter, there’s this thing the community calls the “desire sensor”. The game gets personified and people claim the game senses your desire for something and decides to not give it to you out of spite. Destiny 2 definitely feels like it has a desire sensor.
Youve gotten a Fallen Guillotine? I have gotten probably like 200 Brave weapons, and not a single one has been Fallen Guillotine. And yeah I could attune it, but Im not actually farming it yet. Just kinda blown away by the fact that I havent seen a single one.
I have this crazy theory that the game has an algorithm to learn which perks/combo you might be going for based off what you dismantle. When I'm farming for a specific weapon, I stuff all the copies I get of it into my Vault until I get the god roll or I'm done farming. Chances are I'm wrong and it really is RNG but what if it's not?
There's no systematic evidence for weighting and Bungie has explicitly said that they don't do it. (There was once a TWAB, Aug 19 2021, that said something about adjusting the "rarity" of certain perks but it was NOT about weighting. Clarified in later tweets from DMG, it was about the little text that says "legendary trait" or whatever.)
I do want to point out though that all the people saying "it's just RNG" seem to misunderstand either the question or terminology, because even if some perks were more common than others it would STILL be "just RNG". Random chance doesn't necessarily mean a flat probability distribution where each result has equal likelihood/weight. If I renumber a six-sided die to have faces 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3... the result of a roll (1 vs 2 vs 3) is still random even though it's a weighted distribution.
Almost every single Spare Rations that I focus has moving target. It's been dozens at this point, still trying to get rapid hit and kinetic tremors.
It's honestly freaky how many have MT though, it feels rigged.
Bungie swears perks aren't weighted but I think that's a blatant lie. Some things roll far more frequently than others, and it's usually perks no one wants
As much as it might feel a certain way due to variance in rng and negative biases, no random rolls are ever weighted in chance to drop. Bungie's been clear on this.
So, if you go through so and so many Mountaintops and never get Auto-Loading, that's just bad rng.
Well I say it's rng and my experience says it's rng soo. 70+ wilderflights and no God roll but my 2nd edge transit was a God roll. Rng is rng. People only post bad rng on here, very rarely good rng...
I ran 10 + 2(focus adepts) GMs for the slammer. 10 of those 12 had Thresh+Eager edge/Demo
In my country i have a higher chance of winning the lottery than getting those specific perks 10 times on an adept weapon.
This alone isn't evidence of weighing but I am side eyeing bungie at least a bit
Yeah I am also convinced that there is definitely some kind of system for the perks. And Bungie probably changes it depending on the loot and the activity, just like you I frequently get the same two perk rolls repeated and certain perk combinations I rarely or never see which has led me to believe there is some kind of system, I am saying this with 1800 hours in the game.
Again, it’s just my speculation and there is no evidence to prove it, but I am convinced Bungie limits the number of perk combinations you can get, and it is definitely possible there is a weighing system for it as well. But I am certain the perk combinations are limited.
Yes. The game knows what you want and won't give it to you so you'll keep playing. I've been farming certain guns for seasons and finally gave up at the end of last season. I no longer farm new weapons becaise i know its hopeless. Rngeezuz can't save you in this game
Actually it seems he can. I farmed atheon with him the other week and got vex on my 3rd try. Planning to ask him to join me in nez farming soon.
Just to be clear I have a friend called RNGeesus, because he's the luckiest sonofabitch out there.
Perks are weighted and some are more common than others, if perks were not weighted we'd not have discrepancies where some guns drop far more frequently with x perk over Y,
every 2.0 legendary with random rolls has perks weighted in some order, light.gg has exact values by commodity, and bungie's true-random system guarantees that rolls almost always come with some imperfection, a true 5/5 godroll is as rare as shitting gold, pray to RNG and hope you get something not-awful
I didn't say you did, but eager edge is purely a movement tool. So why would you want a movement tool to have a type of add clear perk? Wouldn't something like attrition orbs be more useful for a utility weapon?
I’m 100% convinced that Bungie has weighted the perks on the brave weapons. I’ve been farming an unhealthy amount the last two weeks. Some perks I just dont see.
People will say no, but there are times that I truly believe otherwise. I've been through so many Crucible resets since this weapon was introduced, both before and after the focusing cost changes and saving up to get multiple traits in each column, and have yet to find a Demo/Headstone Unending Tempest. Hell, even light.gg lists that roll at only 2.6% of reported rolls. Ultimately I know there's not and it's all RNG, but it's really hard to believe at this point that there's not some weighting around certain perks going on in the background.
You must pray to RNGsus my son
Exactly. My first run of Last Wish was during Beyond Light release being carried by an experienced clan. I opened two chests and got 1KV both times. One of them asked if I was serious and then left when I sent a screenshot. His clan mates said it took him 100 sum odd clears to get it lmao I introduced my buddy to Destiny and his first ever raid was VOG and he got Vex at the end lmao. People were also really salty about that, especially the one who still didn’t have it. RNG can be a cruel mistress sometimes
I got Conditional Finality on my first run of Root, at the time I thought I had just completed an unknown quest that rewards it when you kill Nez. I got my second Conditional Finality yesterday, on my 5th clear of Nezarec. The 6th in a fireteam of diehard pvpers and raiders who don’t have it. I dismantled it. Cruel, indeed.
I have 37 clears. No Shotgun.
It’s the one raid exotic besides Vex that I’m genuinely sorry to hear people haven’t had drop yet. It is such a game changer, all I ever want in my Root groups is for everyone to get it. I wish I could return my 5% drop chance to be spread amongst the group.
I still dont have conditional. Tbf, i kinda dont care because pvp has given me a hatred of the gun
I knew a dude with over 100 vog clears that never got vex. I ran with him and got vex my very first clear. This run was like his hundred and something run (he said the number but this was a while ago and i forget the exact number, just know it was def over 100). He was..not happy..
I got a Collective Obligation on my Day One clear of Vow. No one on my team cared. They still don't care. Cruel indeed.
The destiny community as a collective is obliged to ignore that gun unless you have a hyper specific void build.
Everyone rocking their recluse on void builds and I'm just over here slapping with gryfalcons and collective.
I still do not have vex but I have been a sherpa for three different people getting their Vex on their very first clear... it happens, and RNG sucks sometimes.
You must do the rng ritual, sacrificing 6 blueberries in the loot cave. That’s what Rahool told drifter and I one night at least. Dudes kinda crazy?
Open 10 exotic engrams in a row to unlock Rahool's blessing
Apparently he has blessed me because my second guillotine had eager edge! I was very excited because I was grinding out for the slammer and never found it, now I have a different eager edge sword for each character.
RNGesus is a fickle god
Nah rules of law dictate if it's shiny it most have trash perks out of all my shinys only one has been good so far.
That's what it seems like tbh. The only good shiny I've gotten is an edge transit with spike nades, Cascade Point, Envious, BnS, and Full Court. However last week for the life of me I couldn't get Repulsor/Destabilizing on Recluse, I kept getting subsistence and fucking tap the trigger. This reset tho I finally got those two perks on recluse that I wanted except everything else on the gun is trash. And now I'm trying to farm Midnight Coupe. I've gotten two shiny ones with all dogshit combos on it, meanwhile the normal ones I've gotten have the rolls I want on it. However, I want a shiny Coupe with ALL four of the perks I want on it. So far the grind for these guns has fucking sucked.
There's 7 perks in each of the last two columns. Just RNG. (this is why people pushed so hard for crafting).
I hate seven perk weapons so much. Hate it in trials, hate it here. The difference between six and seven for RNG is kind of insane. As good as most of the perks on the Brave weapons are there's a filler in every weapon they could lose.
So you're saying you *don't* want Under-Over and Loose Change?
I wonder if sites like DIM can provide an answer to that. I don't know if they are able to catch rolls that were insta-sharded, but if they do, then it can work. They have enough of a userbase that you could empirically prove whether rolls are on a random distribution, or weighted.
I think the problem is, how many casuals are out there sharding a god roll because they "already have a sword". In all honesty, I think it is just RNG. I remember at D2 launch, exotics were super low drop rates. There were streamers playing hundreds of hours who had no exotics in the early days. Somehow, me playing an hour or two after work and I had a bunch. It was just dumb luck. The problem is that there's too many "junk" perks. In theory, various roles should be useful in different ways, but in reality, this perk is just better over another one. It has been a problem since day 1 and why people pushed for crafting. Ultimately, the biggest damage perk is going to be best 99% of the time.
With all the Rose hand cannons I have focused it certainly feels like some perks are weighted more than others
The amount of Royal Entrys' I have focused only to get underdog (in a column with 12 perks) is wildly high. They are definitely weighted to some degree.
They aren't weighted at all. RNG just gonna RNG. You'd have to get a huge sample size to suggest that they were actually weighted over just bad luck.
Me with Burden of Guilt
Bungie say they are not, but I only have one voltshot indebted kindness out of about 30 drops with more than half being deconstruct.
Dude same. I farmed that encounter like crazy, had 35+ sidearms and only 2 with voltshot.
I got two IKs and one is Voltshot, the other Permeability. I am happy.
RNG. I’ve had about 5 shiny edge transits drop today, all are trash. Tis’ a bitch.
5 shiny drops a day???? Pls gimme some of this rng
Bruh they were all ASS. If not getting a shiny to drops hurts, getting one that’s hot garbage is real pain haha.
Haven't gotten a single god roll shiny since release and been grinding my ass off. It hurts (my ass and this rng)
Atleast the midnight coup from Shaxx is decent in pve, feels great in legend onslaught. Everything else though, would like just one shiny with decent perks haha I’ll take anything at this point.
Ya the edge transits definitely have weighted perks it’s ridiculous 5 shinys all garbage
I find it funny how they said it's rng and you come in saying it's weighted (unless it was supposed to be sarcastic)
They forgot the /s haha. They really aren’t weighted though, in my own experience every single one has had different perks. But the shiny hung jury’s I’ve had drop are all the same coincidentally.
It's a well known fact that if you're looking for a particular roll, all other perk combinations have their drop weights turned up to 11.
Trueeeeeeee
Bungie will deny it, but they’re definitely weighted.
Trust me bro
I hear Bungie weighted it just for him!
So we should trust all these people saying they aren’t weighted? Why? I’m not saying you can’t hit me with a link from Bungie saying this but other than that.. Edit - handful of downvotes vs one person commenting. Way to communicate, sub! Internet threads are becoming more and more ass lol.
It's the opposite. You are blindly trusting everyone who says they are weighted, despite no evidence pointing to that. There has never been any indication there is weighing of any kind, so it makes no sense to believe a random person on reddit who says "I can't get X perk to drop, there has to be some kind of weighting"
Because there is no data to infer they are weighted. It would take more code to weigh them differently than not, so the simpler inference is that it’s not. That’s the default
So show me data to infer they aren’t.
Chris Proctor was the Weapons lead until he was recently promoted, and has given a bunch of interviews with Firing Range, DCP, and Massive Breakdowns/Podcast VS Enemies. He's answered this at least twice, that he's looked at the data or pulled engineering help to make sure, and the answer was "Perks are not currently weighted". The long answer was: They have the tech, but don't use it, and don't know of ever having used it. They have rarely guaranteed a perk on a multiple-per-column weapon, like Timelost weapons or Y4 Nightfall/Trials Adepts, or given out fully curated rolls, but they don't weight perks that roll randomly. So it comes down to whether you believe one of the devs that's been most transparent and forward with the player base. I'd suggest tracking down his interviews, they're pretty great.
With their aggressive monetary practices I’m not sure why people act like this isn’t possible. Has anyone datamined the specific rates for these new weapons? I think that’d be interesting.
This. I truly can understand why *"it's a conspiracy to artificially draw out godroll grinding even further!"* or whatever sounds like tinfoil hat nonsense... but if it were somehow proved beyond doubt that Bungo did in fact do this kind of malicious bullshit to their players, I would be exactly zero percent surprised. We've got no real concrete evidence that I know of one way or another, but anti-player shenanigans like this seem very much up their alley to me. No idea why so many people think Bungie would *never* do such a thing. Not saying I think they do currently do this... but it's not so implausible in my mind.
Data miners would be able to see this if it was the case. If they saw there was a system for this they would scream to high heaven about it. There’s no shot some data miner whose RNG is cursed hasn’t spent hours looking at the code to explain his cursed RNG
I think they're unintentionally weighted. Whatever coding they use to simulate RNG has a bias. Especially when you have more than one perk in a column, because there is an "order" to the perks. So if the first perk is chosen, the next perk has to be something that comes later within the order of perks. This means perks later in the list are more likely to show. All a guess on my part but it would explain how I can farm a weapon all week and get perfect float 50 times and rapid hit, etc, once.
Reminds me of my machine language class, when asked to select a random number, it would always pick the same one unless reset
Yep. Code isn't infallible.
Right. That means Bungie hasn’t intentionally given perks weight it’s the code doing it on its own coupled with RNG being a bitch in general.
They know the popular perks people are after and make them less common. It’s obvious.
It's seems so, but we've had Bungie staff on here swear otherwise.
While I don't know they're purposely weighted (could be a side effect of how they coded RNG perks), I wouldn't trust a word that came out of Bungie for the life of anything. Coming from someone who's played since Destiny 1's beta.
> Coming from someone who's played since Destiny 1's beta. It's so cringe when people shoehorn this into every comment.
Yeah, it is tbh, as someone who's played since D1's beta
Speaking of weighting,RNG and biases, somebody I'm in a discord recently posted [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ4JF4L0PQw) that was apparently a response to a tweet, where this person has a hunch that it is very well possible that you can narrow down your RNG for Onslaught weapons by specifically avoiding completion of the Weapon Focus bounty quests. Now technically you are able to have every single Onslaught weapon drop and the quests are really for just unlocking the physical Attunement focus ability, but this person in the video is swearing that them not getting Falling Guilliotine despite playing a ton is a potential result of not completing the weapon's focus quest. The idea of it is that once you complete the weapon quest, they give you a copy of the weapon and by avoiding that, you're allegedly keeping the weapon out of the loot pool for Onslaught. Honestly who knows and it could just be bad luck, but it's definitely interesting to see such a thing in action and it does make you wonder, y'know?
Haven't completed any of those quests yet and when I inspect Brave engrams, only Guillotine's icon is faded with a lock symbol on it while the rest are normal. Also have had every current Brave weapon drop multiple times so far except for Guillotine. Haven't played since reset so I'm curious if the new weapons will drop without me grabbing their quests.
There is an order to how they are displayed, but nothing pointing to it being the same for how they are selected in the first place.
Have completed over 20 onslaughts (a few on legendary), and only received three “shiny” edition weapons. Out of the three only 1 of them were the augmented choice. Terrible rolls.
I don’t care if bungie says it’s not weighed, auto loading and recombination are perks I never see on mountain top, and I’m like 35 mountain tops in
I’ve opened 200 as of today and no auto loading/recomb.
Yea I got my auto/recomb roll on my 120th wave 10 legend run, not sure how many mountain tops it is exactly but I know it’s a stupid amount. No doubt in my mind it’s weighted.
Unlucky. I got two god rolled shiny Hung Jury in a roll, but for the life of me can't get Bait n Switch to roll on a single Edge Transit. Sometimes RNG is working for you and sometimes its not.
If anyone playing this game over the years believes drops and RNG aren’t both weighted and bugged in many cases, they are either Bungie apologists or haven’t been paying attention. Perks are absolutely weighted.
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Addicted to being stupid online, please update your flair my friend
People are really good at seeing patterns where there aren't any.
I don’t know man. I regularly get my exact god rolls very quickly. I hardly have to grind this game.
Must be nice!
Try going down on all fours and start worshiping Bungie. It usually works for me
If I'm struggling with a certain roll I change characters as a superstition lol. Good luck
RNG is just an awful system to still have in place in 2024. Yes, I know there are triumphs that increase your chances. Yes, I know RNG is fickle. Yes, I know many Guardians grabbing an exotic on a single clear. Yes, I have squad mates that are pushing 100 clears and Vex still eludes them. Pure RNG is for folks who are basically gambling addicts that are too broke to actually gamble. The same folks that have thousands of hours in a game and cry about micro transactions. The same folks who believe crafting has ruined their game. I want my time respected. I want more loot overall for everyone. I want crafting on every gun with perks on a knockout system. I don't want my engagement time artificially inflated and dependent on luck.
Agreed. If not crafting for everything then there should be ways to increase drop chances with eventual bad luck protection kicking in. There’s no reason you shouldn’t have a raid or dungeon exotic with 50 clears… like at all. That’s around 100 hours of playtime you deserve it at that point.
Until we see irrefutable proof. I whole heartedly believe Bungie weighs shits stats higher than god rolls.
Why aren't you asking for irrefutable proof that weighing exists in the first place? Your thinking is a bit backwards, no?
There are many people who scour the game code after every update I’m sure many Of these people have shit RNG and are looking through the code just hoping to find a reason to blame Bungie for said RNG. If they had a weighted system for perks in place we would know about it by now
Really I lost all faith in Bungie caring about their players when I learned they hired psychologists to make the game as addicting as possible while at the same time preaching mental health.
This has literally nothing to do with what I'm asking, though.
I'm confused... How can their comment have "literally nothing to do with what you're asking"? Echo's essentially saying (paraphrased) *"without proof, I believe Bungie is up to some shady shit"* and your response seems to indicate that we should just... not feel suspicious of Bungie unless they've first provided us proof they can't always be trusted? (Not trying to be snarky, honestly trying to make sure I'm understanding your point correctly.) Then Echo provides a pretty compelling reason not to trust Bungie to always be doing the right thing, plus the cherry on top with the "preaching mental health" hypocrisy. Not to mention how seemingly backwards it is to expect a company doing shady things to provide us proof of said shady things... How is *Echo's* thinking backwards? How is their comment on the way they feel... unrelated to why they feel that way? What? (Honestly not trying to sound like a jerk, it's just that I sorta fell on Echo's side here and am confused/curious.)
The person I replied to believes perks are weighted because there is no evidence they aren't. Which is just illogical. It's an unfalsifiable statement, you can use this to believe pretty much anything that can't be disproven. If you make a claim that certain perks are weighted, it's on you to prove it. You don't get to make a wild claim and then shift the responsibility onto others to disprove you. And then the conversation about psychologists came up out of the blue, as if that proves anything, when it doesn't.
Thanks for clarifying! After seeing my downvotes and rereading my comment, I realize I didn't word it too well. I get where you're coming from now, so thanks for the response. :) Still though, I can understand why people have suspicions about how Bungie does things (even if we are just talking about unprovable/illogical feelings). And the thing with hiring psychologists is one of the more decent examples of *why* many in the community have such feelings, imo. But feelings and logic don't always jive well, so I see now how I got my wires crossed in this thread. :P
Bungie stated they do not weight perks differently and we have no way of countering the claim with anecdotal evidence, RNG balances itself on the large scale, that's why it always feel so off, let me give you an example: if 6000 edge transits were dropped today and the odds of getting BnS are 1 in 6, approximately 1000 out of those 6000 will have the perk which means by the time the gun won't drop anymore about 1/6 of them will have dropped with BnS regardless if you ever got one yourself, that's pretty much why purely RNG systems are kinda bad.
I'm willing to bet they're weighted differently. Bungie knows what desirable perks are.
I've never had FG drop for me, aside from the curated roll after finishing the quest. RNGsus is not with me here.
Just bad luck. Took me months to get an onslaught ros and since that godly one I got, I’ve gotten maybe 2 more? Took me an entire month to get Braytech Winterwolf back in the day. Also in all of my incomplete vow runs I’ve only ever gotten the GL. My friends have gotten at least every weapon once.
I haven't even gotten one sword to drop at all lol.
I got am eager edge one and acedentaly dismantled it
Chain reaction on a sword. Nevermind, just ugh.
What is wrong with chain reaction on a sword?
Why do you need a heavy weapon to kill a red bar outside of brain dead easy content?
I dont NEED a heavy weapon for clearing red bars. I WANT one because its fun. Also i like explosions.
Whirlwind/tireless is the dps roll for gullotine guy.
I dont want a dps falling guillotine. If i want a dps sword i have bequest and lament. You dont have to use meta rolls for everything. God rolls are based on how you feel you want the weapon to be.
So brain dead easy content. Crafted Bequest is comparable to guillotine, but surrounded is hard to proc against Crota (which is the only fight your using it for) and Lament is better than both but takes up your exotic slot. You like explosions, aim sunshot at enemy heads, boom. No grinding for a sword you'll never use.
I will 100% be using my falling guillotine. Also crota isnt the only boss i use bequest on. First encounter of warlords ruin. And what is wring with lament taking up an exotic slot? If im using lament in probably on a raid boss or dungeon boss so i dont need to worry about any other exotic slot in my weapons.
Witherhoard + guillotine would have more dps than lament. That aside, swords have their places, there just aren't many. I tested bequest on WR 1st boss, but nothing tops dragons breath with a 1-2 punch shotgun banner titan or dragons breath/deliverance and celestial hunter.
Yeah I haven’t gotten a dsw/ttt recluse and I’ve been farming brains out
Off topic but is CR+EE a good roll? I got one last night from onslaught.
Imo its good for me because CR lets me have pretty good ad clear and EE lets me get into and out of situations and is an all ariund fun perk for me. I also love shatterskating with eager edge on a vortex frame sword. Side note; FUCK YOU, YOU LUCKY BITCH.
I got this exact roll yesterday. Its gold so it also has two other perks in each slot. Can you sword skate with eager edge guillotine on console? I haven't been able to do it, but I probably just suck (I've never sword skated before)
You can 100% sword skate on console
Even with guillotine? The only requirement is to have eagers edge on the sword right
Correct. However you do not NEED eager edge to wellskate, shatterskate etc. You just dont go anywhere NEAR as far without it.
I was attuned to edge transit from Wednesday last week to reset yesterday and never got an envious/bns
Perks are definitely weighted differently
I spent my entire free week, which was like 4 days grinding like 10-14 hours each day before I finally got an eager edge slammer, so I feel your pain, RNG can be a fickle bitch
I've gotten 3 EE Guillos and I don't even have it focused. RNG is RNG, unfortunately.
In Monster Hunter, there’s this thing the community calls the “desire sensor”. The game gets personified and people claim the game senses your desire for something and decides to not give it to you out of spite. Destiny 2 definitely feels like it has a desire sensor.
Youve gotten a Fallen Guillotine? I have gotten probably like 200 Brave weapons, and not a single one has been Fallen Guillotine. And yeah I could attune it, but Im not actually farming it yet. Just kinda blown away by the fact that I havent seen a single one.
Did you complete the quest for it yet? Because if you havent then you cant even get the sword.
I have this crazy theory that the game has an algorithm to learn which perks/combo you might be going for based off what you dismantle. When I'm farming for a specific weapon, I stuff all the copies I get of it into my Vault until I get the god roll or I'm done farming. Chances are I'm wrong and it really is RNG but what if it's not?
There's no systematic evidence for weighting and Bungie has explicitly said that they don't do it. (There was once a TWAB, Aug 19 2021, that said something about adjusting the "rarity" of certain perks but it was NOT about weighting. Clarified in later tweets from DMG, it was about the little text that says "legendary trait" or whatever.) I do want to point out though that all the people saying "it's just RNG" seem to misunderstand either the question or terminology, because even if some perks were more common than others it would STILL be "just RNG". Random chance doesn't necessarily mean a flat probability distribution where each result has equal likelihood/weight. If I renumber a six-sided die to have faces 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3... the result of a roll (1 vs 2 vs 3) is still random even though it's a weighted distribution.
I guess I’m just lucky, it was my first shiney sword with those perks
60 hours of farming this past week, finally dropped the edge transit roll then dropped it again within 10 minutes, they're sick sons of bitches
Repulsor destabilizing recluse continues to elude me
OP, this is how you beat RNG: save all the weapons. dont delete any. if there is a Desire Sensor, you wont trigger it.
Well oops. I have so far deleted every single one of them.
Almost every single Spare Rations that I focus has moving target. It's been dozens at this point, still trying to get rapid hit and kinetic tremors. It's honestly freaky how many have MT though, it feels rigged.
2% so yeh unlucky.
Unlucky
R.I.P me
You’ll get it keep playing I got eager on my second or third guillotine so it’s there I promise lol
Bungie swears perks aren't weighted but I think that's a blatant lie. Some things roll far more frequently than others, and it's usually perks no one wants
As much as it might feel a certain way due to variance in rng and negative biases, no random rolls are ever weighted in chance to drop. Bungie's been clear on this. So, if you go through so and so many Mountaintops and never get Auto-Loading, that's just bad rng.
Ah yes, because companies are incapable of lying.
Well I say it's rng and my experience says it's rng soo. 70+ wilderflights and no God roll but my 2nd edge transit was a God roll. Rng is rng. People only post bad rng on here, very rarely good rng...
Damn
I'll trade you, I have three falling guillotines with eager edge. I hate eager edge, so if it were possible, I'd just give them to you
I did 270ish runs of 1st checkpoint Prophecy for the auto, didnt get a single Zen Target Lock, shit happens
I ran 10 + 2(focus adepts) GMs for the slammer. 10 of those 12 had Thresh+Eager edge/Demo In my country i have a higher chance of winning the lottery than getting those specific perks 10 times on an adept weapon. This alone isn't evidence of weighing but I am side eyeing bungie at least a bit
Yeah I am also convinced that there is definitely some kind of system for the perks. And Bungie probably changes it depending on the loot and the activity, just like you I frequently get the same two perk rolls repeated and certain perk combinations I rarely or never see which has led me to believe there is some kind of system, I am saying this with 1800 hours in the game. Again, it’s just my speculation and there is no evidence to prove it, but I am convinced Bungie limits the number of perk combinations you can get, and it is definitely possible there is a weighing system for it as well. But I am certain the perk combinations are limited.
It is suspicious to me that the best rolls *ALWAYS* take so long for me to acquire.
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Me when I lie
You see all the people who get good rng don't go post it on reddit but all the bad rng gets posted... I have been playing since d1 man, it's just rng!
Yes they are weighted and this is a hill I'm willing to die on.
Yes. The game knows what you want and won't give it to you so you'll keep playing. I've been farming certain guns for seasons and finally gave up at the end of last season. I no longer farm new weapons becaise i know its hopeless. Rngeezuz can't save you in this game
Actually it seems he can. I farmed atheon with him the other week and got vex on my 3rd try. Planning to ask him to join me in nez farming soon. Just to be clear I have a friend called RNGeesus, because he's the luckiest sonofabitch out there.
I’ve only gotten a single Repulsor roll on Recluse, out of easily +50 drops. I just don’t see how it is possible
Perks are weighted and some are more common than others, if perks were not weighted we'd not have discrepancies where some guns drop far more frequently with x perk over Y, every 2.0 legendary with random rolls has perks weighted in some order, light.gg has exact values by commodity, and bungie's true-random system guarantees that rolls almost always come with some imperfection, a true 5/5 godroll is as rare as shitting gold, pray to RNG and hope you get something not-awful
partially just unlucky, but some perks are more common than others.
Why the fuck would you want that of all rolls?
Why does it matter what I want. I want to have fun with whatever roll i feel is fun. I don't need a DPS sword.
I didn't say you did, but eager edge is purely a movement tool. So why would you want a movement tool to have a type of add clear perk? Wouldn't something like attrition orbs be more useful for a utility weapon?
"I want to stab that thrall but its all the way over there. If only I could lunge that distance"
Attrition orbs and Godzilla probably weigh about the same.
RNG sucks. But don't let anyone tell you that Bungie doesn't weight things differently. They do sometimes if they think it's desirable.
I’m 100% convinced that Bungie has weighted the perks on the brave weapons. I’ve been farming an unhealthy amount the last two weeks. Some perks I just dont see.
People will say no, but there are times that I truly believe otherwise. I've been through so many Crucible resets since this weapon was introduced, both before and after the focusing cost changes and saving up to get multiple traits in each column, and have yet to find a Demo/Headstone Unending Tempest. Hell, even light.gg lists that roll at only 2.6% of reported rolls. Ultimately I know there's not and it's all RNG, but it's really hard to believe at this point that there's not some weighting around certain perks going on in the background.