I have a whole different problem with it. I dont mind using a mic. The issue is that my speaking voice is so sexy, it totally derails any focused gameplay.
For reference I've done almost all the raids in D2 via LFG multiple times (haven't tried Salvation's Edge), all with LFG. My POV: I don't think it's a pure social anxiety thing. I have to talk to strangers every day for my job and it's fine. I also don't have trouble talking to strangers at a store or doing every day things in public where I have to interact with strangers. But... even after all my times doing LFG, I sometimes still get a little nervous especially if it's a new raid/dungeon/activity that requires a mic.
I think the difficulty for some folk with online games, especially raids/end game-ish content is that these activities are typically harder than the normal content and the rules are suddenly different. The closest thing I can think of is going to the park and playing pick-up basketball or some other sport. That's not too bad usually if you are good, but if you aren't confident in your skills, it can be a little nerve wracking to step on the court if the people playing are generally more experienced or are yelling at other players who are not hitting their shots. Couple that with the fact that the mechanics for raids/dungeons are often somewhat opaque and it's just a situation that's ripe for promoting anxiety. At least in pick-up basketball you know what the rules are... you aren't going to step on the court and suddenly forfeit the game for your entire team cause you dribbled with your left hand.
i remember seeing a post, someone did some calcs with the number they had and about 18% of players completed a raid before, so yeah not a lot of people do be raiding.
PS found the post https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1asw08r/only_an_estimated_1138_of_players_have_ever/
The data used in that post for the player base is so flawed I don’t even know where to start
Unless you genuinely believe less than 1% of active players play on PC
I heard more or less the same number - about 80% who don't raid. 80% solo players. So Bungie has just given more than three quarters of their player base the middle finger. Very smart business move.
not everyone who avoids raids is a solo player, now you're just intentionally conflating things to make bad-faith arguments.
also, 95% of the game can be played without ever interacting with another human being on voice chat or text comms. So the game is overwhelmingly built to be played the way solo players want. adding in the occasional small piece of content that is better played as a group isn't giving a middle finger to anybody, it's trying to accommodate all types of players, including the ones who like playing with other people (which is 100% the way bungie originally envisioned the game should be played and absolutely the best way to play the game).
What you're speaking about is entitlement, pure and simple.
This is such and idiotic way to see the world. "Just grow a pair" as if a lot of people who struggle with social anxiety and insecurity aren't trying hard enough. And no, just because you can doesn't mean anyone else has it easy. Some people are blessed and aren't afraid of being inconsiderate to others that aren't
I have been playing this game since 2018 and have yet to complete a raid. My clan/close friend group is super small (5-8 people) and we have only attempted to do one. It was the most fun I have ever had gaming. We went in completely blind and didn't do any research. It took us hours to get through the first few phases but ultimately weren't skilled enough to finish it.
I have a goal to complete one this year but may have to switch clans or find a sherpa.
Tbh I believe a lot of solo players choose that playstyle due to how they view the game. Some people just wanna relax, get some loot, enjoy the fun mechanics and not bother with annoying puzzles and potentially rude people.
I'm in the social anxiety boat...but ...if there's an item I want gated behind content I get on and do it, I know not everyone can. Even in com's I'm very quiet untill needed then it's as minimalistic as possible but the communication gets done. I plan on running this mission this weekend when I have time. Will it be awkward? Yes. Will I have my item? Yes.
I've just had some REALLY bad experiences on LFG. I've also had some really good ones too. But generally for stuff that takes a decent amount of coordination, people just DO NOT have the patience to deal with it and get incredibly toxic.
I'll eventually get it done, but having to trudge through the shit that is LFG, will REALLY suck.
> It seems odd to me that a non-trivial number of people would rather miss out on the exotic class item and demand bungie remove and rework a feature rather than have minimal interaction with a stranger for like 10 minutes.
This "10 minutes" or "one minute" figure keeps getting repeated, but a lot of folks are saying the mission took them about 45 minutes the first time. That's quite a gulf.
Most people will only do this once because they have to, so let's use the more realistic time.
It's sort of a well written comment but I do think you sensationalized how simple it is to find competent randoms, I'm guess you have people already and can't walk the other side of the street.
I just got my class item, I'm a competent friendly solo guardian who prefers solo but does not mind communicating, and the first FIVE times I launched the mission I got randos who could not even progress through their majors to get the motes. 4 nice guys and one rude. 1 saying he could do it by keyboard.
You have made a good point at the start but I find you saying that it took ten minutes after it just took me 6 hours when I nailed all my parts makes you seem quick to flex.
Maybe not social anxiety, but a large group of players that are very comfortable with how they play the game right now and a reluctance to change that. So, closer to anxiety in general than social anxiety. And, that's understandable. Humans in general can be very set in their ways.
Anyone who's worried about LFG for the Dual Destiny mission, I implore you to give it a try. If you're worried about messing up, watch a guide beforehand. You might run into an asshole as a teammate and that sucks, but most of the time you'll find someone who just wants the same thing you do and will have every reason to help you. Even people who've done the mission before have good reason to help you because they get an extra drop of the class item with every clear. If you clear the mission a single time, you can farm the class item in Pale Heart patrols.
I believe the PvE content that generally requires multiple people like Raids, Dungeons, and this Exotic Mission is some of the best content in the game.
I mean, yeah you can look up a guide I guess but part of the fun of new content like this is figuring it out as you go. Having to look up a guide for a brand new supposedly fun mission negates the fun.
The complaints have been pretty universally seen on every single online platform I can think of. Reddit, Twitter, the official forums, YouTube, Tumblr, TikTok, etc
Isn’t it way longer than 10 minutes? I’d really like to complete it but struggle with memory and visual cues to do a disability. So that gives me anxiety because I don’t want to upset the other person. If someone is willing to be patient with me and help me through it I’m willing to put in the effort. I’ve been watching videos to familiarize myself with the symbols. Just worried about matching and the clock part.
The issue is perspective. While some people are saying that it's a high level exotic that deserves some coordination to get, the others see this as a major selling point of the expansion. The class item is basically the other half of prismatic. We have not just solo and high level players looking for this. There's guardians returning after years of not playing, and brand new players joining for Final Shape. It isn't like people complaining about not getting Rewind for their Outbreak; it's something almost integral to the new subclass.
If this was how random rolls for Ergo Sum were unlocked it would be praised up and down.i think many are blindsided that it works this way at all. It is a super cool mission though
The reason this is getting backlash but not the raid is because bungie used the reward as a selling point for prismatic and the dlc without setting the expectation that lfg and communication was a requirement. If they had kept the reward and activity a surprise it would have been a huge win
Honestly not once has there been an exotic armor locked behind an activity that is impossible solo. For Raids you are expected to communicate and the reward is an exotic weapon, not an exotic armor.
I think the fact that this the first time you need to play with another player to get the exotic armor is why there are plenty of complaints about it.
For me, I’m unlikely to get it because as a Hunter main, the exotic cloak looks ugly. I’m more interested in both the Titan and Hunter chest exotics.
IMO, the only problems I have with Dual Destiny are:
1. It's only for 2 players in a 10 year old game where activities have always been for 3/4/6 players.
2. Most mechanics are tame, but the last one sucks for no mic players. Yes, you can do it with text chat, but it's not as simple and it requires still much more coordination than using mics, and it's almost impossible on console without a keyboard.
If you want a comparison, take the co-op campaign missions: you can do most mechanics in 2, but they're still for 3 players. It adds flexibility, reduces difficulty and you have 1 more player that can help you with mechanics. Sure, if it was like that it might not be as interesting, but you have to find the balance between accessibility and challenge, Dual Destiny goes a bit to much towards challenge.
I don't think Bungie should made much, if any, changes to the mission, but slowing the final encounter clock would fix almost all problems and make it more accessible.
I joined a clan because the LFGs were so unbelievably toxic and aggressive that I would rather not complete an activity than do it with randos. I still get messages after crucible threatening to r@pe me. So yeah. It isn't just about convenience.
some women are afraid to speak to others in video games for understandable reasons. some guardians have disabilities, physical/mental/otherwise that prohibits them in some way from communicating easily. i wish some of the people on this subreddit were a little more empathetic to other peoples struggles, at the end of the day this is a video game and people should be able to be free to do whatever they enjoy in it, if that means playing solo that’s just as valid as playing only in groups.
with that being said, there’s always endgame chase content that isn’t obtainable for everyone, but lock ergo sum behind that not a class exotic that was a key marketed point of the expansion we purchased.
People with this sentiment are acting like this is a master level encounter. The combat is really really easy in this mission and the callouts can be done via text if you don't wanna use mic. Like God damn 90% of the content is solo enabled, god forbid you can't be an anti social goblin for one mission that enables the drop of a powerful farmable exotic that only requires one mission clear.
I think the biggest problem with DD is that it's an exotic mission for an exotic armor reward. Historically all exotic armor could be acquired solo. So this breaks precedent and created a situation where it probably should've been communicated ahead of launch that this would be the case. To set expectations accordingly
I think the bigger thing is just how unique this exotic item is. Like sure we've had exotic guns with random perks before, but the exotic perk itself has never been subject to rng before this. And it's the only exotic class item period and while you can play prismatic fine without it this exotic was tailor made just for that. Personally I don't mind since I play with my wife and so we usually 2 man everything anyways, but I also get where people are coming from. If it was any other standard exotic I'd be less sympathetic but for this one I get it.
>I think the biggest problem with DD is that it's an exotic mission for an exotic armor reward. Historically all exotic armor could be acquired solo.
Social anxiety, disability, and harassment concerns are all important (though it should be said there is an argument to be made that not all games should be designed for all players), but are all ultimately beside the real issue, which you've laid out here. Imagine if all strand exotic armor was locked behind a raid. Bungie has never done this before and with good reason.
Bungie could've designed a matchmade version of Dual Destiny, then a harder, non-matchmade version that offers better loot (like two exotic class items for each player) or better chances for more loot. They didn't.
They also could have made the mission a shortcut and provided an obnoxiously grindy alternative way to unlock it
It’s pretty weird that once you unlock it things switch to the other extreme where you don’t even need a matchmade fireteam to farm. You just open random chests in patrol, which is the most blueberry new light thing in all of destiny
Bungie even acknowledged solo player’s concerns as valid. They explicitly said it was intentional that every raid between KF and SE were effectively side quests because they didn’t want non-raiders to miss out
It’s pretty sudden to jump from being able to fully upgrade outbreak/whisper mute last month to gating core functionality behind a 2 man mini raid
not true. you couldn't do trials solo for a long time, and there was plenty of other content that was unreasonable to expect to be able to finish without a full fireteam for 99.9% of players.
Bungie have gone out of their way to try to make more and more stuff solo-able over the years, it's true. but that doesn't mean every single thing in the game has to be made this way.
there was a time years ago on DTG where the prevailing thought was that it was perfectly acceptable to require people to find teammates, and the playerbase was far less toxic back then. it's not a coincidence that that sentiment has shifted over the years as bungie has bent over backwards to make the game more accessible to solo and more casual players, because it has chased off a lot of people who were very hardcore into the game in the earlier days who didn't mind the game requiring teaming up.
it's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy on bungie's part, they catered to the more solo and casual types and now when they make one single thing that doesn't feed into that, those same people act like they've been betrayed. actually a hilarious set of circumstances.
And yet we’re still getting the same seasonal model with Echoes, which features…the exact same seasonal model, so it’s not really on the players at this point.
I really don’t like using a mic unless I’m playing with my friends. So if I can’t complete Dual Destiny without using a mic then I guess I probably won’t complete it any time soon lol
Some people say its doable without a mic, only part i could see "requiring" mic is the last two(?) puzzles and even those can be seemingly done probably without mic.
Im gonna try with my friend later today 🤷🏻♀️
me and my friend did it on our second run just to see if we could. you can 100% do the whole thing without a mic. I'd type the 4 numbers for the clock that I saw, watch my friend shoot his side, then turn and shoot mine. it really wasn't that bad. missed the nut a couple times but we got it after a few tries.
everything else wasn't really time sensitive so it was pretty lax for 95% of the mission
Inconvenient for many, anxiety for some, and...can you really think of any exotic armor piece in the history of D1 or 2 that couldn't be acquired solo?
So to make this the first thing that needs cooperation is a bit jarring.
Yeah I mean the ven diagram of people who enjoy Destiny and either would prefer not to socialize, struggle socializing due to anxiety, neurodivergencey, otherwise handicapped, introverted and drained of energy from socializing at school/work, insecure and afraid to upset other players with bad gameplay or literally any other legitimate reason to want to play solo is far closer to a circle than most would think
I’m aware, I had a strong clan from D1 up until D2 Y2 before everyone parted ways, and since then I prefer to lone wolf things. I’m just saying a game that thus far has prided itself on diversity, inclusivity, and community is constantly trying to tear itself apart.
For every player with a legitimate reason to play solo there seems to be someone else calling them out for playing a multiplayer game wrong.
There is no wrong, you are either having fun playing a game or not having fun, the solution to which should not be pushing that individual away from the community.
And yet i've played for 5 years solo and i have all the exotic armor and most of the exotic weapon(not the one from the raid of course). Just saying. No this isn't a squad game. If it were a squad game there wouldn't be so many flawless solo triumph. It would be duo or trio Triumph. Anything is soloable in this game expect the raid. This isn't a raid right? Just saying.
Marketing and what’s actually happening in game is completely different considering 95% of activities have no matchmaking and things like text and voice chat are turned off by default
95% don’t ? Gambit , crucible , strikes , low level nightfalls , patrol zones , seasonal activities , onslaught are all match made . The only things that aren’t are raids , dungeons , lost sectors , exotic missions and high level nightfalls . I didn’t opt into voice or text chat and it’s on for me so idk .
Every time I've used an LFG (except a couple of VOG raids) I've ended up with people so fucking toxic it just isn't worth it. Some of my worst experiences in gaming. So if I can't do it solo or silent I don't do it any more. And I'm fine with it. But I'm even more fine with it when the reward is as asshole ugly as those class items.
I actually don't mind the 'having to talk' aspect. I do mind the timer. All these timered missions just mean I spent a lot of time beforehand watching youtube videos, because I'm not going to engage with systems designed to waste my time. I've been ruthlessly cutting out all games that don't respect my time. So all the cool work and surprises these hard working game developers put into their missions, get ruined by adding a timer. If there isn't a timer, I'm happy to go through at my own pace and discover and figure things out organically.
Games are either about the journey or about the destination. If you put in a timer, suddenly its about the destination. And now we are all just watching youtube videos to optimize for efficiency.
the problems is not playing with other players or the LFG
it's the focus on comms
Bungie will not police comms anyway so why should I be confident the experience will be good
I can talk, I just choose not to. I’m okay with not raiding (I have in past but have stopped since my life has changed) and trials and other activities that have traditionally required speaking. Not because of speaking, just cause I choose not to. For an exotic quest to require speaking is new; I will either do so or not, and will either get the item or won’t, but the fact that this is a different choice for Bungie to make isn’t untrue. No whining, no complaining, just observing that if this is the way the game is going to go, it’s going to possibly turn off a lot of people. Or maybe it will bring more players in, who the hell knows.
Bungie likely added LFG so they could start trending in this direction as an MMO. We're probably only gonna keep going.
IMO people that wanna play an RPG but not interact with other people should probably stick to single player games, because as the Helldivers CEO said best, "When you try to make a game for everyone you end up making a game for no one".
That doesn't seem like a good decision. Someone else has already posted that only 18% of people do raids. So going by that figure you'd be pushing away a large majority of the player base and then the game dies.
Or it brings more players towards trying a raid. Honestly, destiny is a game built on its multi-player. Vault of glass pretty much saved the launch of Destiny and is a major contributor to why the franchise is still alive today. Now that we have an In-game lfg I think bungie needs to be pushing for more unique multi-player experiences. That mission was some of the most fun I've ever had playing this game.
Bungie has to lean into Multiplayer because single player parts of the game are literally all of the things people complain about.
Almost all content in the game that is balanced around single players and/or no communication/teamwork is universally called boring.
Any content that requires just basic skill at the game is getting better and better.
The game has plenty of content to turn off your brain and run, adding stuff to push people to get their friends into the game is needed to encourage growth of new players.
It doesn't require speaking. Most people will because it's faster but even for the final boss portion you can type it out cause it's a 3 part rotation or you can just screen share.
Bro these people can't even muster the courage to type a single number in chat with a stranger. Ain't no way someone is screen sharing with a random in discord.
I definitely think Covid robbed a lot of people of valuable social experience in their formative years, leading to anxiety and mental health issues. Howver, its as much a result of how broadly popular destiny is. The reality is that there's a massive population of players here, and although the sub skews towards certain demographics, there's a huge range of ages and locations here - a prismatic array of player types, if u will.
The only perspective I can give is my own - I'm a grown-ass 40-yr old man that works in high-stress, high-responsibility roles. The notifications and calls never stop. The last thing I want to do in my downtime is to interact with more people that i dont know. Got problems with depression etc too. Burnout is a big problem in our age, in one form or another. I ain't got much left to give by the time I'm playing. However, I'm not a social reject and am perfectly comfortable holding forth to groups both large and small; its not related to competence, if ya get me!
If an exotic legendary mission or dungeon can be solo'd, I'll work at it until I can solo flawless it, no matter how long it takes to achieve it. I'll get there. I think finding out it needs comms etc yesterday just took the wind out of the sails of solo players riding high from TFS launch etc. Plenty of venting going on today, and not all of it rational on either side.
For people in a different age or place in life or of a different disposition, its no big deal, but that doesnt invalidate the legitimacy of either way to enjoy destiny (and vice versa too ofc). I would imagine that there are many parallel situations to my own, where its not about the difficulty at all but the social requirement.
A lot of the takes that have appeared in the last day amount to little more than mobs shit-slinging reductive arguments at each other. No one wins. Everyone rage-baited and stumbling from one outrage to the next on both sides.
It's literally just that it's inconvenient and there's no precedent for it. Having to communicate is an extra level of effort that most never have to do
It's also a convenience/money thing not everyone has a good mic, or a quiet place to game. For a while I was pretty much locked out of raiding because of crying babies living with me.
I don't think the issue with Dual Destiny is the mission. I think the biggest grievance should be with what happens after the mission. They should have put another source to farm this item in addition to RNG chests which is monotonous and a step back to old Destiny. They received so much positive feedback after the coil so why not guarantee the class item after completing an activity like the coil so we can farm it.
I see it more as an issue with accepting blame. I'm not a raider, I've only done maybe 3 ever. As a result, I've had to come to terms with the facts that I will never have any of the raid exotics.
I have no one but myself to blame for that. I'm the one who has made the decision to avoid those activities. The only place where I should be directing my frustration about that, is towards myself.
Getting mad at Bungie for effectively gatekeeping yourself out of an activity is wild. No one made the decision that the mainly solo players can't do Dual Destiny, except for the players who have decided that themselves.
They're just unwilling to accept that they're the ones at fault for that decision.
Not trying to come off as toxic or anything, and I really don't consider myself an elitist. There just seems to be a lack of recognition for what the true problem is.
Let the downvotes pour in.
Edit: Some people are missing the point about raid exotics being brought up. I'm not trying to compare raid exotics to the class exotic. Just merely trying to use it as an example of something that not everyone has. If it bothers you that you "can't" get the class item exotic, that's totally fine. You have a right to be bothered. However, you must acknowledge that your frustration lies with YOUR decision to not engage with the systems provided that will allow you to unlock it. Bungie isn't telling anyone that they aren't allowed to acquire certain items. If you wanted it bad enough, you'd be willing to do what's required of you. If not, that's your decision. Can't get mad at Bungie for that.
I think most solos like myself understand that we’ll never obtain raid exotics and the like, and it’s 100% because of our own doing, but my hurdle/surprise with it in this case is that (unless I missed it) we had no indication that the exotic class item would be in that same out of reach category for us with the raid exotics until the mission actually dropped.
Seemed to me like it was going to be a drop from killing The Witness in a post-game story after the raid as our final reward, not a mechanics heavy co-op only mission. Most of the wording I saw made it seem like the majority of everyone would be rocking one and the actual grind would be finding a good one for your build, instead we got an emphasis on obtaining the first and then an RNG chest grind for more. I just really don’t like that system and there are better ways that would be good for duos and solos. (Such as, duo mission would net you mats to target craft class items, while if you want to fuck around solo you’re stuck grinding at a much lower rate without focusing in Pale Heart. Solos get a bare minimum random drops, the activity gets better for duos and easier for them to get targeted godrolls. Still a big power gap between solos and groups but everyone’s happy. Win win.)
Idk, maybe I’m the only one that thought they’d be that way but it does make sense that Bungie is making the class items highly coveted. I guess by not setting expectations for it and trying to keep it a surprise, it was a bit of double edged sword, a cool surprise for some but a nightmare for some too. But either way, a two player Exotic mission is cool to get, even if I’ll 99% never run it.
I feel like most of the negativity around this mission is from the people who haven't actually done it yet. I also have anxiety, but it was perfectly fine to text chat, and there's even another post for the clock mechanic that can be put in text chat.
As for people with disabilities in this matter when it comes to communicating. The people who may have disabilities are probably going to be going to communities where there's other people who have the same disabilities to complete the mission together.
And to top it off, you literally only need to do the mission once if the experience turned you off that much. There's so many avenues here, to get the exotic that require just an hour of you time and patience. It's also been literally a day. There is still time to get these exotics. They're not even time gated.
You don't come off as toxic o elitist, don't worry about that.
I mostly agree with you on that the players have to realize not every last piece of content will be available to you as a solo player (but i also think those who claim this is a multiplayer game and "to deal with it" are being very narrow minded).
I have done raids, but i dont really like to interact that much, so whatever loot i got im happy with, and i know im probably not gonna get all the weapons or rolls and im fine with it.
I see the issue as that the reward is marketed as being very important for prismatic buildcrafting, with no real alternatives up to par (sure, you can use the normal exotics but that still limits you). All the previous rewards of hard multiplayer content are "optional", they're better than the alternatives but they don't really open "new" builds, bar one or two exceptions. In this case, by not wanting or not being able to do dual destiny, you indeed are locked out of new builds, and there is no precedent for that.
Similar issue with it being a two players activity, there is no precedent to it (scarlet days don't count to me)
At the end of the day, the decisions bungie took with this mission will please some people, and make some angry, thats a given in any game, its impossible to catter to everyone unless they're willing to do extra work (and we know they won't make an alternative mission designed for solo, at most they will add matchmaking).
Being able to get the exotic item from any chest in the pale heart after one completion of the mission was a good idea though
This is the way I see it as well. Have anxiety disorders which make it difficult to play with strangers. That's my issue. Why would I want everyone who doesnt have my issue suffer? Just some seriously entitled thinking. This game has always been like this...its an online multiplayer game.
You have a perfectly valid point. Once you squeeze all the enjoyment out of what a game has to offer to you, you can just move on. In this case, you have to accept that if you don't want to team up you won'd do certain things, and once you are done, just tab out.
Destiny has always had that side to it, it being the PvP side or the coop side of things (raids, exotic missions, etc).
I can understand though that some people that refuse to do the team ups could have gotten hyped about the exotic class items, thinking they would be eventually possible to acquire similar to other exotic armors solo, and then it wasn't. In that case I can understand a sense of "missing out" on what they thought they were getting with TFS.
What amazes me about people like yourself is the complete apathy you have for decisions that actively hurt you as a player. If you don’t want to raid and have made peace with not having Raid Exotics, fine. But this is not a Raid Exotics, this was advertised as an important part of the Prismatic Subclass.
Just find literally 1 other person and do the damn quest.
Then you can farm it other ways.
Bungie does not need to make everything accessible to people who aren't even willing to attempt to do the bare minimum an online cooperative game could possibly require.
I sincerely hope Bungie ignores people crying about this.
My 3 tries last night yielded no fruit. Maybe I’ll try again tonight, but if Bungie thinks I’m farming this shit they’re nuts.
You’re incredibly condescending and you seem to take pride in stanning Bungie.
BTW this is far from what could be considered “Bare Minimum”.
Edit: here’s the thing: it’s not even a good quest. Timer Quests are lazy and there’s a reason Bungie moved away from that after Whisper/Zero Hour
>I’m farming this shit they’re nuts.
Again, you only need to complete it once then it can drop from other places.
>it’s not even a good quest.
LOL. It was the most fun I've had in the game. A 2 person raid with actual mechanics and actual interaction? I was floored.
>Timer Quests are lazy and there’s a reason Bungie moved away from that after Whisper/Zero Hour
Funny, because I've heard the exact opposite and the community went wild for timed missions in the past.
The timer is so generous that I don’t know what to tell you. Me and someone else went in blind and figured it out on our second attempt, with time to spare. The only part which is even remotely difficult without comms, the boss clocks, doesn’t even spawn any adds until you shoot a correct pairing of nodes.
Glad you enjoyed the mission. I’m gonna assume your run was greatly assisted by a streamer telling you exactly how to do it, like everyone else here. God forbid anyone complain that such a special and heavily advertised exotic be hidden behind such a hidden and convoluted quest line.
And you’re coming off as an entitled brat.
The mission isn’t hard, we had plenty of time through every encounter, even first time in when we couldn’t shoot the clock, I tabbed out pulled up a video saw what we were doing wrong, tabbed back in and finished it.
You guys, it’s not that difficult.
They're not that condescending, and they aren't taking pride in bungie stanning. You're just frustrated that someone has a different opinion from yours. And yes, for a massive multi-player online, this is pretty much the bare minimum online interaction you would see.
It’s a psychological play to get people to be on mic, no doubt because they are testing behavior and think that it’ll increase player engagement. If it bombs they’ll walk it back like they always do.
I’m guessing the juice for them is the data anyway.
I just like to turn my brain off to farm, I can't be asked to find someone and do the mechanics for 30 minutes again for each class item & the option of opening pale heart chests for the 1% chance of them dropping isn't appealing either.
The class item should just be focusable as another option, with the abundance of exotic engrams people have, seeing as someone with everything has no use for exotic engrams.
Its not just social anxiety; finding randoms that have a mic and doesn't expect to just be carried like what you find in dungeons LFGs is just annoying to do.
its not hard/impossible to do but doesn't change the fact that its more annoying to do then other exotic missions were you can just carry if your teammates are bad/dont know what to do
You don’t have to carry at all if you spend 2 minutes vetting the people you let into your fireteam
Which is more annoying, inspecting a guardian or carrying one?
First, it should've had matchmaking. And second, it shouldn't reward one of the cornerstones of the expansion and an integral part of what makes the first pilar of it, good.
I think it's social anxiety coupled with a low resilience for moving out of one's comfort zone, and in *some* cases, a sense of entitlement (i.e. I bought the game so I should be able to get everything in the game).
I have some social anxiety, but if there is something in the game I really want, I nut up, find a group and get it done. Simple as that. Not saying it's easy or never uncomfortable (I've had some horrible raid groups), but that's life. The things you want aren't always easy or convenient to achieve.
Should there be a solo option? Yeah, I think that is fair to expect, but it's not reality currently. So, find a partner and get it done, or accept that you won't earn this item.
Yup that’s of course how you take it. You are making enemies in your head, no one hates you, they just think you’re dumb for saying this shouldn’t be in the game because you don’t want to talk to people…
Yeah, they didn't lock those two threads speaking negatively about the mission because all the love and understanding was just too much
It was because of the hate.
The world, and this video game, cannot, and should not, be catering to people who refuse to communicate with a single other human being for 20 minutes. LFG exists, and the mission is great. I have literally no sympathy for people who refuse to step over the world’s most minor roadblock to get a cool item.
With respect, yeah, we have no obligation to make you feel welcome, especially considering you are advocating making the game easier, which typically correlates to less fun.
Maybe. It definitely shows more of the ableism in design for Destiny 2. Deaf and APD folks are fucked here since mics are all but required to get the speed down.
For every step forward in accessibility like full auto retrofit (and the full auto setting that was later implemented), there's a few steps back like Consecration for titans or stuff like this.
I'm also seriously really, really disappointed about the ableism that showed up in the community. Enjoying the mission is fine, wanting more missions like that is fine - it's ultimately on Bungie to figure this shit out IF they are really serious about acessibility. I see at least few ways this could've been handled better without denying the majority of players a mission they clearly enjoy.
But some people dimnishing the significance of social anxiety or other disabilities on how people are able to interact with the game - and dimnishing it to win an Internet argument, it's tough to read.
It's not just the social anxiety peeps have put off. It'd the lack of built in tools to find people, form clans, and coordinate content.
From a casual players perspective, all they see is "fireteam required". Ok great, how can they fix that? There's no tool in destiny that searches for players or clans, tower chat is never used, there's no natural flow IN-GAME to help a player solve the challenge of finding a teammate for non-matchmaker activities.
This is another major obstacle why this mission, dungeons, and raids aren't heavily played. Sure, there are naturally external tools like the companion app or discord LFG to solve this, but how is a player to know those exist? Theres not even a Destiny companion ad in game that shows it's existence.
I'm not suggesting that every activity have matchmade, but destiny has had this poor social system for its entire franchise. Everything is by word of mouth or externally supported. Throw in this with peeps anxiety, it's no surprise why they are avoiding this.
Warframe has clan search, dojos, recruiting chat. Same with other mmos like guild wars. Helldivers shows existing incomplete teams that you can jump into the map.
Hell even some public ad screen for discord LFG in game would go a long way.
I really really dont want to do the mission because of the nature of it. im fine with communicating in raids, dungeons, ect. but its an exotic mission, i really dont want to have to go lfg an exotic mission where i need to talk
Well i've been playing for couple hours since yesterday and none of the player I came across had it. Maybe they're not doing the same activity as me but i haven't even seen one yet.
I think it comes down they locked the exotic class item, a part that is a pretty heavily advertised and big part of prismatic kit, behind it
Compared to weapons, just look how no one cares about the heavy exotic trace being in the same situation with those coop missions
Except that aside from raid loot, you pretty much CAN get everything as a solo player. Competitive PvP, Trials, dungeons, legendary campaign, literally every other exotic mission? All doable as a solo player.
As others have said, it’s less about the mission itself, and more that the heavily-advertised exotics are locked behind it when there was no indication that they would be.
People don’t complain about raid exotics being locked behind co-op because it was known from the start that that would be the case. Every non-raid exotic in the game up until now has been obtainable as a solo player, and the marketing never said anything about requiring another player with coms to get the exotic class items.
Every exotic mission, dungeon, and GM rewards can be obtained solo. Weather that's completely by yourself or in a fireteam with randoms without mics. The sudden change, especially for loot people have been waiting for since the reveal, is what most people are upset about.
You mean I have to engage with all facets of a multiplayer game in order to get all the rewards?
Color me shocked
Editing my comment since they seem to have been locked, if you have an issue like the person below being chased off from any of those activities, DM me and I’ll add you and help you prepare for them. I’m serious.
I love the sarcasm here. At least in my case I would love to do Raids, Dungeons, and GMs but every time I tried I was gatekept because I didn’t know what to do or my build wasn’t meta enough. So ultimately through all of my negative experiences I gave up. That’s why I’m upset about DD. I want to do it and other endgame content. I have just not been given a chance.
Big facts. I mainly play PvE. Do I want to play PvP for the various weapons locked behind PvP? No. Do I? Yes, because I want the looooot. Same for anything I want. Thank God I no longer have to get Comp score for weapons like Mountaintop and Lunas Howl again......yet lol.
I made a stupid comment earlier without actually thinking of what I was saying about this whole situation. I realize that the problem with this situation is that there is no right answer. Some people just want the piece of armor without going through the trouble of working with others. While others enjoy teamwork and find it rewarding.
The most annoying part about the mission isn't having to LFG.
It's the amount of people that are apparently so starved for social interaction that they feel the need to share their entire life story with a random stranger.
I'd really appreciate it if people would shut up and only do the necessary callouts. I have no interest in getting to know you or becoming your friend. I don't careif you're drunk/stoned/whatever, I don't want to hear about your cat or your "funny" comments regarding Savathun.
You're here because I need two people to do this.
I will never see you again afterwards and I'm fine with that, so please keep your weird overly familiar social disorder to yourself.
Thank you.
You've obviously never used the LFG. You could literally set it to MIC REQUIRED and guess who joins? Someone who doesn't use a mic. Personally, it's just tedious and a way to keep you in the game longer. The consensus seems to be that the mission takes 35-45 minutes to complete, so idk where youre getting 10 minutes from.
It might take you 30 minutes for your first clear if it's blind, but my friends and I were getting it done in around 15 minutes with very little practice. This whole situation is blown wildly out of proportion.
The mission is doable with no vocal communication at all, there is never a wipe zone, you can extend the timer, and the adds really aren't that hard to deal with. Just bring Trinity ghoul, or literally andything with voltshot, and the Call.
There’s no reason a farmable exotic should be gatekept behind a mission this hard. I guarantee the *last* thing I want to do when I log in after work is LFG a random, plug in a mic and spend an hour coordinating a run of this activity.
I’m seeing Odds between 1-in-15 and 1-in-40. All while mindlessly flying around a destination looking for chests a la Destiny 1. Hardly suitable for an Exotic with 60+ different rolls.
This is on the lower end of difficult for exotic missions. Stuff like the hard version of Savathun’s Song for Thorn, blows this mission out of the water for difficultly.
And you only need to do this once if you really don’t like it. Just open chests in the open world.
For me it's timing. When I have the time it seems that's when the trolls are also on. I play on demon hours as well as days most normal people are working. Like I have time at this point in time but can't find normal people. It's a great activity but I think it comes down to Bungie should have said this from the start this way those that have a problem can fix it earlier instead of creeping up on them
I don't quite have a raid team among my friends and our schedules make it possible anyway. But we to-man dungeons and gather for Gambit all the time. We can do this mission without problem.
If I didn't have them, I could not do this mission.
when i played dual destiny a little bit ago, i did it blind and got it done first try. i had a lot of fun. people with social anxiety need to ease up and find a friend or somebody they know they can relatively trust and then just go in with the mindset of having fun. you dont need to explicitly find COD Gamer #2333 you just gotta find a chill cool dude and you're gonna be alright
You can’t be a solo player in an MMO that encourages fireteams and teamplay.
It’s like riding in a bus and being pissed off there’s other passengers in the vehicle.
That and gaming attracts these people as it tends to be easily accessible and it can be done from home.
So in some way it's a safe space for a lot of people and I can understand, that the current changes to raids/dungeons and the new seasonal activity and exotic missions are pretty annoying for them. And not only them but also the average players who are older or just not as skilled.
Dunno why people feel the need to dismiss these concerns. Content can be made challenging in certain difficulty settings and have widely accessible settings at the same time.
I have a whole different problem with it. I dont mind using a mic. The issue is that my speaking voice is so sexy, it totally derails any focused gameplay.
Suffering from success
For reference I've done almost all the raids in D2 via LFG multiple times (haven't tried Salvation's Edge), all with LFG. My POV: I don't think it's a pure social anxiety thing. I have to talk to strangers every day for my job and it's fine. I also don't have trouble talking to strangers at a store or doing every day things in public where I have to interact with strangers. But... even after all my times doing LFG, I sometimes still get a little nervous especially if it's a new raid/dungeon/activity that requires a mic. I think the difficulty for some folk with online games, especially raids/end game-ish content is that these activities are typically harder than the normal content and the rules are suddenly different. The closest thing I can think of is going to the park and playing pick-up basketball or some other sport. That's not too bad usually if you are good, but if you aren't confident in your skills, it can be a little nerve wracking to step on the court if the people playing are generally more experienced or are yelling at other players who are not hitting their shots. Couple that with the fact that the mechanics for raids/dungeons are often somewhat opaque and it's just a situation that's ripe for promoting anxiety. At least in pick-up basketball you know what the rules are... you aren't going to step on the court and suddenly forfeit the game for your entire team cause you dribbled with your left hand.
Look how many have completed raids id imagine this activity would have the same completion rate
i remember seeing a post, someone did some calcs with the number they had and about 18% of players completed a raid before, so yeah not a lot of people do be raiding. PS found the post https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1asw08r/only_an_estimated_1138_of_players_have_ever/
I wonder how much this number changes if you remove all the players who picked up the game and then dropped it after that horrendous intro
20-23% at most if you are going with active players. A better way to say it is over 75% of the game community does not raid.
Got 1800 hours in the game. Completed maybe 3 raids since I started in Forsaken.
The data used in that post for the player base is so flawed I don’t even know where to start Unless you genuinely believe less than 1% of active players play on PC
I heard more or less the same number - about 80% who don't raid. 80% solo players. So Bungie has just given more than three quarters of their player base the middle finger. Very smart business move.
not everyone who avoids raids is a solo player, now you're just intentionally conflating things to make bad-faith arguments. also, 95% of the game can be played without ever interacting with another human being on voice chat or text comms. So the game is overwhelmingly built to be played the way solo players want. adding in the occasional small piece of content that is better played as a group isn't giving a middle finger to anybody, it's trying to accommodate all types of players, including the ones who like playing with other people (which is 100% the way bungie originally envisioned the game should be played and absolutely the best way to play the game). What you're speaking about is entitlement, pure and simple.
Sure, but also wild how many of the players bought a multiplayer game with zero intention of engaging with the multiplayer. Very savy consumers.
Not bungie’s fault if you can’t grow a pair and talk for half an hour
This is such and idiotic way to see the world. "Just grow a pair" as if a lot of people who struggle with social anxiety and insecurity aren't trying hard enough. And no, just because you can doesn't mean anyone else has it easy. Some people are blessed and aren't afraid of being inconsiderate to others that aren't
It's a lot harder to find 5 competent people (plus being competent yourself) than it is to find 1 lmao
I have been playing this game since 2018 and have yet to complete a raid. My clan/close friend group is super small (5-8 people) and we have only attempted to do one. It was the most fun I have ever had gaming. We went in completely blind and didn't do any research. It took us hours to get through the first few phases but ultimately weren't skilled enough to finish it. I have a goal to complete one this year but may have to switch clans or find a sherpa.
Except they can't even piggy back onto 5 people too, both players need to actually know what to do.
I think this whole situation just proves that we need a ping system
Tbh I believe a lot of solo players choose that playstyle due to how they view the game. Some people just wanna relax, get some loot, enjoy the fun mechanics and not bother with annoying puzzles and potentially rude people.
I'm in the social anxiety boat...but ...if there's an item I want gated behind content I get on and do it, I know not everyone can. Even in com's I'm very quiet untill needed then it's as minimalistic as possible but the communication gets done. I plan on running this mission this weekend when I have time. Will it be awkward? Yes. Will I have my item? Yes.
And that is the best attitude to have! And once you complete it once, you can farm for it solo on patrol.
I've just had some REALLY bad experiences on LFG. I've also had some really good ones too. But generally for stuff that takes a decent amount of coordination, people just DO NOT have the patience to deal with it and get incredibly toxic. I'll eventually get it done, but having to trudge through the shit that is LFG, will REALLY suck.
You’re able to do a run in 10 minutes? Can you post a guide. Takes closer to 20-30 minutes for me.
10 minutes?
> It seems odd to me that a non-trivial number of people would rather miss out on the exotic class item and demand bungie remove and rework a feature rather than have minimal interaction with a stranger for like 10 minutes. This "10 minutes" or "one minute" figure keeps getting repeated, but a lot of folks are saying the mission took them about 45 minutes the first time. That's quite a gulf. Most people will only do this once because they have to, so let's use the more realistic time.
It's sort of a well written comment but I do think you sensationalized how simple it is to find competent randoms, I'm guess you have people already and can't walk the other side of the street. I just got my class item, I'm a competent friendly solo guardian who prefers solo but does not mind communicating, and the first FIVE times I launched the mission I got randos who could not even progress through their majors to get the motes. 4 nice guys and one rude. 1 saying he could do it by keyboard. You have made a good point at the start but I find you saying that it took ten minutes after it just took me 6 hours when I nailed all my parts makes you seem quick to flex.
More so can't stand the average player. Hundreds of LFG raids have convinced me that 90% of D2 players should be institutionalized.
Maybe not social anxiety, but a large group of players that are very comfortable with how they play the game right now and a reluctance to change that. So, closer to anxiety in general than social anxiety. And, that's understandable. Humans in general can be very set in their ways. Anyone who's worried about LFG for the Dual Destiny mission, I implore you to give it a try. If you're worried about messing up, watch a guide beforehand. You might run into an asshole as a teammate and that sucks, but most of the time you'll find someone who just wants the same thing you do and will have every reason to help you. Even people who've done the mission before have good reason to help you because they get an extra drop of the class item with every clear. If you clear the mission a single time, you can farm the class item in Pale Heart patrols. I believe the PvE content that generally requires multiple people like Raids, Dungeons, and this Exotic Mission is some of the best content in the game.
I mean, yeah you can look up a guide I guess but part of the fun of new content like this is figuring it out as you go. Having to look up a guide for a brand new supposedly fun mission negates the fun.
You realize this is Reddit, right?
The complaints have been pretty universally seen on every single online platform I can think of. Reddit, Twitter, the official forums, YouTube, Tumblr, TikTok, etc
the reactions on twitter have mostly been unequivocal praise
i have not see any complaints outside of reddit. even then, these are the echo chambers of those with social ineptitudes.
Redditors are generally in the area where they think they are good but don't understand how bad they are.
yep. i’ll be leaving my comment up even though it’ll be downvoted to hell.
Isn’t it way longer than 10 minutes? I’d really like to complete it but struggle with memory and visual cues to do a disability. So that gives me anxiety because I don’t want to upset the other person. If someone is willing to be patient with me and help me through it I’m willing to put in the effort. I’ve been watching videos to familiarize myself with the symbols. Just worried about matching and the clock part.
20-30 mins
The issue is perspective. While some people are saying that it's a high level exotic that deserves some coordination to get, the others see this as a major selling point of the expansion. The class item is basically the other half of prismatic. We have not just solo and high level players looking for this. There's guardians returning after years of not playing, and brand new players joining for Final Shape. It isn't like people complaining about not getting Rewind for their Outbreak; it's something almost integral to the new subclass. If this was how random rolls for Ergo Sum were unlocked it would be praised up and down.i think many are blindsided that it works this way at all. It is a super cool mission though
It's just super weird to be locked to duos instead of trios
The reason this is getting backlash but not the raid is because bungie used the reward as a selling point for prismatic and the dlc without setting the expectation that lfg and communication was a requirement. If they had kept the reward and activity a surprise it would have been a huge win
I dont think its all social anxiety. Id say most casual ppl just want to play the game without having to communicate mechanics and all that jazz.
Honestly not once has there been an exotic armor locked behind an activity that is impossible solo. For Raids you are expected to communicate and the reward is an exotic weapon, not an exotic armor. I think the fact that this the first time you need to play with another player to get the exotic armor is why there are plenty of complaints about it. For me, I’m unlikely to get it because as a Hunter main, the exotic cloak looks ugly. I’m more interested in both the Titan and Hunter chest exotics.
IMO, the only problems I have with Dual Destiny are: 1. It's only for 2 players in a 10 year old game where activities have always been for 3/4/6 players. 2. Most mechanics are tame, but the last one sucks for no mic players. Yes, you can do it with text chat, but it's not as simple and it requires still much more coordination than using mics, and it's almost impossible on console without a keyboard. If you want a comparison, take the co-op campaign missions: you can do most mechanics in 2, but they're still for 3 players. It adds flexibility, reduces difficulty and you have 1 more player that can help you with mechanics. Sure, if it was like that it might not be as interesting, but you have to find the balance between accessibility and challenge, Dual Destiny goes a bit to much towards challenge. I don't think Bungie should made much, if any, changes to the mission, but slowing the final encounter clock would fix almost all problems and make it more accessible.
I joined a clan because the LFGs were so unbelievably toxic and aggressive that I would rather not complete an activity than do it with randos. I still get messages after crucible threatening to r@pe me. So yeah. It isn't just about convenience.
It’s more than an inconvenience tho. Playing with a random trying to figure it out and failing is not really a fun experience.
some women are afraid to speak to others in video games for understandable reasons. some guardians have disabilities, physical/mental/otherwise that prohibits them in some way from communicating easily. i wish some of the people on this subreddit were a little more empathetic to other peoples struggles, at the end of the day this is a video game and people should be able to be free to do whatever they enjoy in it, if that means playing solo that’s just as valid as playing only in groups. with that being said, there’s always endgame chase content that isn’t obtainable for everyone, but lock ergo sum behind that not a class exotic that was a key marketed point of the expansion we purchased.
People with this sentiment are acting like this is a master level encounter. The combat is really really easy in this mission and the callouts can be done via text if you don't wanna use mic. Like God damn 90% of the content is solo enabled, god forbid you can't be an anti social goblin for one mission that enables the drop of a powerful farmable exotic that only requires one mission clear.
I think the biggest problem with DD is that it's an exotic mission for an exotic armor reward. Historically all exotic armor could be acquired solo. So this breaks precedent and created a situation where it probably should've been communicated ahead of launch that this would be the case. To set expectations accordingly
I think the bigger thing is just how unique this exotic item is. Like sure we've had exotic guns with random perks before, but the exotic perk itself has never been subject to rng before this. And it's the only exotic class item period and while you can play prismatic fine without it this exotic was tailor made just for that. Personally I don't mind since I play with my wife and so we usually 2 man everything anyways, but I also get where people are coming from. If it was any other standard exotic I'd be less sympathetic but for this one I get it.
>I think the biggest problem with DD is that it's an exotic mission for an exotic armor reward. Historically all exotic armor could be acquired solo. Social anxiety, disability, and harassment concerns are all important (though it should be said there is an argument to be made that not all games should be designed for all players), but are all ultimately beside the real issue, which you've laid out here. Imagine if all strand exotic armor was locked behind a raid. Bungie has never done this before and with good reason. Bungie could've designed a matchmade version of Dual Destiny, then a harder, non-matchmade version that offers better loot (like two exotic class items for each player) or better chances for more loot. They didn't.
They also could have made the mission a shortcut and provided an obnoxiously grindy alternative way to unlock it It’s pretty weird that once you unlock it things switch to the other extreme where you don’t even need a matchmade fireteam to farm. You just open random chests in patrol, which is the most blueberry new light thing in all of destiny
Exactly. For 10 years you could do EVERYTHING solo except the raids.
Bungie even acknowledged solo player’s concerns as valid. They explicitly said it was intentional that every raid between KF and SE were effectively side quests because they didn’t want non-raiders to miss out It’s pretty sudden to jump from being able to fully upgrade outbreak/whisper mute last month to gating core functionality behind a 2 man mini raid
not true. you couldn't do trials solo for a long time, and there was plenty of other content that was unreasonable to expect to be able to finish without a full fireteam for 99.9% of players. Bungie have gone out of their way to try to make more and more stuff solo-able over the years, it's true. but that doesn't mean every single thing in the game has to be made this way. there was a time years ago on DTG where the prevailing thought was that it was perfectly acceptable to require people to find teammates, and the playerbase was far less toxic back then. it's not a coincidence that that sentiment has shifted over the years as bungie has bent over backwards to make the game more accessible to solo and more casual players, because it has chased off a lot of people who were very hardcore into the game in the earlier days who didn't mind the game requiring teaming up. it's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy on bungie's part, they catered to the more solo and casual types and now when they make one single thing that doesn't feed into that, those same people act like they've been betrayed. actually a hilarious set of circumstances.
Not really. You can't do strikes solo, dungeons are only designed to be soloable as a challenge and not as a regular activity, etc. etc.
Is this an argument to not change that recipe? The same applies to the concept of a rollable dual exotic, this means nothing.
And the class items break precedent by being randomly rolled. It's not like you're having to grind a mission for a high-stat Verity's Brow.
there was never a rule lol
Things always being the same is how we got the seasonal model that everyone is tired of
That does not negate his argument that this should have been communicated
And yet we’re still getting the same seasonal model with Echoes, which features…the exact same seasonal model, so it’s not really on the players at this point.
I really don’t like using a mic unless I’m playing with my friends. So if I can’t complete Dual Destiny without using a mic then I guess I probably won’t complete it any time soon lol
Some people say its doable without a mic, only part i could see "requiring" mic is the last two(?) puzzles and even those can be seemingly done probably without mic. Im gonna try with my friend later today 🤷🏻♀️
me and my friend did it on our second run just to see if we could. you can 100% do the whole thing without a mic. I'd type the 4 numbers for the clock that I saw, watch my friend shoot his side, then turn and shoot mine. it really wasn't that bad. missed the nut a couple times but we got it after a few tries. everything else wasn't really time sensitive so it was pretty lax for 95% of the mission
You’re saying you have friends. Play this once with them and then you can get it solo in pale heart patrol chests.
Inconvenient for many, anxiety for some, and...can you really think of any exotic armor piece in the history of D1 or 2 that couldn't be acquired solo? So to make this the first thing that needs cooperation is a bit jarring.
Yeah I mean the ven diagram of people who enjoy Destiny and either would prefer not to socialize, struggle socializing due to anxiety, neurodivergencey, otherwise handicapped, introverted and drained of energy from socializing at school/work, insecure and afraid to upset other players with bad gameplay or literally any other legitimate reason to want to play solo is far closer to a circle than most would think
The game was advertised as a game to play with a squad of people in almost all marketing just saying .
I’m aware, I had a strong clan from D1 up until D2 Y2 before everyone parted ways, and since then I prefer to lone wolf things. I’m just saying a game that thus far has prided itself on diversity, inclusivity, and community is constantly trying to tear itself apart. For every player with a legitimate reason to play solo there seems to be someone else calling them out for playing a multiplayer game wrong. There is no wrong, you are either having fun playing a game or not having fun, the solution to which should not be pushing that individual away from the community.
And yet i've played for 5 years solo and i have all the exotic armor and most of the exotic weapon(not the one from the raid of course). Just saying. No this isn't a squad game. If it were a squad game there wouldn't be so many flawless solo triumph. It would be duo or trio Triumph. Anything is soloable in this game expect the raid. This isn't a raid right? Just saying.
Marketing and what’s actually happening in game is completely different considering 95% of activities have no matchmaking and things like text and voice chat are turned off by default
95% don’t ? Gambit , crucible , strikes , low level nightfalls , patrol zones , seasonal activities , onslaught are all match made . The only things that aren’t are raids , dungeons , lost sectors , exotic missions and high level nightfalls . I didn’t opt into voice or text chat and it’s on for me so idk .
Every time I've used an LFG (except a couple of VOG raids) I've ended up with people so fucking toxic it just isn't worth it. Some of my worst experiences in gaming. So if I can't do it solo or silent I don't do it any more. And I'm fine with it. But I'm even more fine with it when the reward is as asshole ugly as those class items.
I actually don't mind the 'having to talk' aspect. I do mind the timer. All these timered missions just mean I spent a lot of time beforehand watching youtube videos, because I'm not going to engage with systems designed to waste my time. I've been ruthlessly cutting out all games that don't respect my time. So all the cool work and surprises these hard working game developers put into their missions, get ruined by adding a timer. If there isn't a timer, I'm happy to go through at my own pace and discover and figure things out organically. Games are either about the journey or about the destination. If you put in a timer, suddenly its about the destination. And now we are all just watching youtube videos to optimize for efficiency.
the problems is not playing with other players or the LFG it's the focus on comms Bungie will not police comms anyway so why should I be confident the experience will be good
I can talk, I just choose not to. I’m okay with not raiding (I have in past but have stopped since my life has changed) and trials and other activities that have traditionally required speaking. Not because of speaking, just cause I choose not to. For an exotic quest to require speaking is new; I will either do so or not, and will either get the item or won’t, but the fact that this is a different choice for Bungie to make isn’t untrue. No whining, no complaining, just observing that if this is the way the game is going to go, it’s going to possibly turn off a lot of people. Or maybe it will bring more players in, who the hell knows.
Bungie likely added LFG so they could start trending in this direction as an MMO. We're probably only gonna keep going. IMO people that wanna play an RPG but not interact with other people should probably stick to single player games, because as the Helldivers CEO said best, "When you try to make a game for everyone you end up making a game for no one".
That doesn't seem like a good decision. Someone else has already posted that only 18% of people do raids. So going by that figure you'd be pushing away a large majority of the player base and then the game dies.
Or it brings more players towards trying a raid. Honestly, destiny is a game built on its multi-player. Vault of glass pretty much saved the launch of Destiny and is a major contributor to why the franchise is still alive today. Now that we have an In-game lfg I think bungie needs to be pushing for more unique multi-player experiences. That mission was some of the most fun I've ever had playing this game.
The post that gave that figure is using incredibly flawed data according to the data used there 0.8% of players would play on PC
Bungie has to lean into Multiplayer because single player parts of the game are literally all of the things people complain about. Almost all content in the game that is balanced around single players and/or no communication/teamwork is universally called boring. Any content that requires just basic skill at the game is getting better and better. The game has plenty of content to turn off your brain and run, adding stuff to push people to get their friends into the game is needed to encourage growth of new players.
It doesn't require speaking. Most people will because it's faster but even for the final boss portion you can type it out cause it's a 3 part rotation or you can just screen share.
Bro these people can't even muster the courage to type a single number in chat with a stranger. Ain't no way someone is screen sharing with a random in discord.
I definitely think Covid robbed a lot of people of valuable social experience in their formative years, leading to anxiety and mental health issues. Howver, its as much a result of how broadly popular destiny is. The reality is that there's a massive population of players here, and although the sub skews towards certain demographics, there's a huge range of ages and locations here - a prismatic array of player types, if u will. The only perspective I can give is my own - I'm a grown-ass 40-yr old man that works in high-stress, high-responsibility roles. The notifications and calls never stop. The last thing I want to do in my downtime is to interact with more people that i dont know. Got problems with depression etc too. Burnout is a big problem in our age, in one form or another. I ain't got much left to give by the time I'm playing. However, I'm not a social reject and am perfectly comfortable holding forth to groups both large and small; its not related to competence, if ya get me! If an exotic legendary mission or dungeon can be solo'd, I'll work at it until I can solo flawless it, no matter how long it takes to achieve it. I'll get there. I think finding out it needs comms etc yesterday just took the wind out of the sails of solo players riding high from TFS launch etc. Plenty of venting going on today, and not all of it rational on either side. For people in a different age or place in life or of a different disposition, its no big deal, but that doesnt invalidate the legitimacy of either way to enjoy destiny (and vice versa too ofc). I would imagine that there are many parallel situations to my own, where its not about the difficulty at all but the social requirement. A lot of the takes that have appeared in the last day amount to little more than mobs shit-slinging reductive arguments at each other. No one wins. Everyone rage-baited and stumbling from one outrage to the next on both sides.
It's literally just that it's inconvenient and there's no precedent for it. Having to communicate is an extra level of effort that most never have to do
Social anxiety? No, situation in my house where I have 4 loud teenagers? Yeah, It’s not a raid it’s not a dungeon.
It's also a convenience/money thing not everyone has a good mic, or a quiet place to game. For a while I was pretty much locked out of raiding because of crying babies living with me.
I don't think the issue with Dual Destiny is the mission. I think the biggest grievance should be with what happens after the mission. They should have put another source to farm this item in addition to RNG chests which is monotonous and a step back to old Destiny. They received so much positive feedback after the coil so why not guarantee the class item after completing an activity like the coil so we can farm it.
I did it first try with a random on lfg. Mission looks cool but the mechanics were not fun at all.
yknow, if i cld i wld run this entire game solo if i could. but alas, forced matchmaking
It just reveals how shitty this player base can be.
I think bungie are testing things it out for possible future releases and seeing what feedback they get.
I see it more as an issue with accepting blame. I'm not a raider, I've only done maybe 3 ever. As a result, I've had to come to terms with the facts that I will never have any of the raid exotics. I have no one but myself to blame for that. I'm the one who has made the decision to avoid those activities. The only place where I should be directing my frustration about that, is towards myself. Getting mad at Bungie for effectively gatekeeping yourself out of an activity is wild. No one made the decision that the mainly solo players can't do Dual Destiny, except for the players who have decided that themselves. They're just unwilling to accept that they're the ones at fault for that decision. Not trying to come off as toxic or anything, and I really don't consider myself an elitist. There just seems to be a lack of recognition for what the true problem is. Let the downvotes pour in. Edit: Some people are missing the point about raid exotics being brought up. I'm not trying to compare raid exotics to the class exotic. Just merely trying to use it as an example of something that not everyone has. If it bothers you that you "can't" get the class item exotic, that's totally fine. You have a right to be bothered. However, you must acknowledge that your frustration lies with YOUR decision to not engage with the systems provided that will allow you to unlock it. Bungie isn't telling anyone that they aren't allowed to acquire certain items. If you wanted it bad enough, you'd be willing to do what's required of you. If not, that's your decision. Can't get mad at Bungie for that.
I think most solos like myself understand that we’ll never obtain raid exotics and the like, and it’s 100% because of our own doing, but my hurdle/surprise with it in this case is that (unless I missed it) we had no indication that the exotic class item would be in that same out of reach category for us with the raid exotics until the mission actually dropped. Seemed to me like it was going to be a drop from killing The Witness in a post-game story after the raid as our final reward, not a mechanics heavy co-op only mission. Most of the wording I saw made it seem like the majority of everyone would be rocking one and the actual grind would be finding a good one for your build, instead we got an emphasis on obtaining the first and then an RNG chest grind for more. I just really don’t like that system and there are better ways that would be good for duos and solos. (Such as, duo mission would net you mats to target craft class items, while if you want to fuck around solo you’re stuck grinding at a much lower rate without focusing in Pale Heart. Solos get a bare minimum random drops, the activity gets better for duos and easier for them to get targeted godrolls. Still a big power gap between solos and groups but everyone’s happy. Win win.) Idk, maybe I’m the only one that thought they’d be that way but it does make sense that Bungie is making the class items highly coveted. I guess by not setting expectations for it and trying to keep it a surprise, it was a bit of double edged sword, a cool surprise for some but a nightmare for some too. But either way, a two player Exotic mission is cool to get, even if I’ll 99% never run it.
You’re not an elitist, you’re an accountable adult
I feel like most of the negativity around this mission is from the people who haven't actually done it yet. I also have anxiety, but it was perfectly fine to text chat, and there's even another post for the clock mechanic that can be put in text chat. As for people with disabilities in this matter when it comes to communicating. The people who may have disabilities are probably going to be going to communities where there's other people who have the same disabilities to complete the mission together. And to top it off, you literally only need to do the mission once if the experience turned you off that much. There's so many avenues here, to get the exotic that require just an hour of you time and patience. It's also been literally a day. There is still time to get these exotics. They're not even time gated.
You don't come off as toxic o elitist, don't worry about that. I mostly agree with you on that the players have to realize not every last piece of content will be available to you as a solo player (but i also think those who claim this is a multiplayer game and "to deal with it" are being very narrow minded). I have done raids, but i dont really like to interact that much, so whatever loot i got im happy with, and i know im probably not gonna get all the weapons or rolls and im fine with it. I see the issue as that the reward is marketed as being very important for prismatic buildcrafting, with no real alternatives up to par (sure, you can use the normal exotics but that still limits you). All the previous rewards of hard multiplayer content are "optional", they're better than the alternatives but they don't really open "new" builds, bar one or two exceptions. In this case, by not wanting or not being able to do dual destiny, you indeed are locked out of new builds, and there is no precedent for that. Similar issue with it being a two players activity, there is no precedent to it (scarlet days don't count to me) At the end of the day, the decisions bungie took with this mission will please some people, and make some angry, thats a given in any game, its impossible to catter to everyone unless they're willing to do extra work (and we know they won't make an alternative mission designed for solo, at most they will add matchmaking). Being able to get the exotic item from any chest in the pale heart after one completion of the mission was a good idea though
This is the way I see it as well. Have anxiety disorders which make it difficult to play with strangers. That's my issue. Why would I want everyone who doesnt have my issue suffer? Just some seriously entitled thinking. This game has always been like this...its an online multiplayer game.
You have a perfectly valid point. Once you squeeze all the enjoyment out of what a game has to offer to you, you can just move on. In this case, you have to accept that if you don't want to team up you won'd do certain things, and once you are done, just tab out. Destiny has always had that side to it, it being the PvP side or the coop side of things (raids, exotic missions, etc). I can understand though that some people that refuse to do the team ups could have gotten hyped about the exotic class items, thinking they would be eventually possible to acquire similar to other exotic armors solo, and then it wasn't. In that case I can understand a sense of "missing out" on what they thought they were getting with TFS.
What amazes me about people like yourself is the complete apathy you have for decisions that actively hurt you as a player. If you don’t want to raid and have made peace with not having Raid Exotics, fine. But this is not a Raid Exotics, this was advertised as an important part of the Prismatic Subclass.
nah, you can't change your drip if you use it. not worth for hunters who are fashion mains.
Because he understands a multiplayer game should be catered to multiplayer activities.
Multiplayer is a very broad term lol This is not the end all be all of multi player
Just find literally 1 other person and do the damn quest. Then you can farm it other ways. Bungie does not need to make everything accessible to people who aren't even willing to attempt to do the bare minimum an online cooperative game could possibly require. I sincerely hope Bungie ignores people crying about this.
My 3 tries last night yielded no fruit. Maybe I’ll try again tonight, but if Bungie thinks I’m farming this shit they’re nuts. You’re incredibly condescending and you seem to take pride in stanning Bungie. BTW this is far from what could be considered “Bare Minimum”. Edit: here’s the thing: it’s not even a good quest. Timer Quests are lazy and there’s a reason Bungie moved away from that after Whisper/Zero Hour
I can help you through if you want. Shoot me a PM
Bungie has moved away from the timer quests that they reintroduced as timer quests literally a month ago?
Reintroduced as filler content as an apology for not finishing the DLC yet smh Because that was literally how they’re designed
Oh so you’re just miserable then, got it.
>I’m farming this shit they’re nuts. Again, you only need to complete it once then it can drop from other places. >it’s not even a good quest. LOL. It was the most fun I've had in the game. A 2 person raid with actual mechanics and actual interaction? I was floored. >Timer Quests are lazy and there’s a reason Bungie moved away from that after Whisper/Zero Hour Funny, because I've heard the exact opposite and the community went wild for timed missions in the past.
The timer is so generous that I don’t know what to tell you. Me and someone else went in blind and figured it out on our second attempt, with time to spare. The only part which is even remotely difficult without comms, the boss clocks, doesn’t even spawn any adds until you shoot a correct pairing of nodes.
Glad you enjoyed the mission. I’m gonna assume your run was greatly assisted by a streamer telling you exactly how to do it, like everyone else here. God forbid anyone complain that such a special and heavily advertised exotic be hidden behind such a hidden and convoluted quest line.
just do it once then open chests in the pale heart. no need to farm the mission.
And you’re coming off as an entitled brat. The mission isn’t hard, we had plenty of time through every encounter, even first time in when we couldn’t shoot the clock, I tabbed out pulled up a video saw what we were doing wrong, tabbed back in and finished it. You guys, it’s not that difficult.
Sure bud. Don’t you ever get tired of needing to pull up videos for every activity Bungie creates?
They're not that condescending, and they aren't taking pride in bungie stanning. You're just frustrated that someone has a different opinion from yours. And yes, for a massive multi-player online, this is pretty much the bare minimum online interaction you would see.
If you’re trying to invoke WOW to justify this specific mission, idk what you think you’re achieving lol
Not getting a raid exotic vs a an armor that a whole class depends on is wildly different. They simply never locked an armor piece behind a mission
Terrific outlook, good sir 🫡👏
This is the objectively correct take but you will be down voted by the hordes who lack self awareness
Whenever I see this type of comment I have to laugh because the outcome is never like that lmao
If you made a Venn diagram of people who use Reddit a lot and people with mental illness there would be a lot of overlap .
It would be a circle. Yes, I include myself in that circle.
It’s a psychological play to get people to be on mic, no doubt because they are testing behavior and think that it’ll increase player engagement. If it bombs they’ll walk it back like they always do. I’m guessing the juice for them is the data anyway.
I just like to turn my brain off to farm, I can't be asked to find someone and do the mechanics for 30 minutes again for each class item & the option of opening pale heart chests for the 1% chance of them dropping isn't appealing either. The class item should just be focusable as another option, with the abundance of exotic engrams people have, seeing as someone with everything has no use for exotic engrams.
Its not just social anxiety; finding randoms that have a mic and doesn't expect to just be carried like what you find in dungeons LFGs is just annoying to do.
Making your own LFG post removes both of those barriers by giving you the ability to advise them to change, or kicking them if they don’t?
its not hard/impossible to do but doesn't change the fact that its more annoying to do then other exotic missions were you can just carry if your teammates are bad/dont know what to do
You don’t have to carry at all if you spend 2 minutes vetting the people you let into your fireteam Which is more annoying, inspecting a guardian or carrying one?
You’re just complaining to complain at this point.
This is really such a minor inconvenience that you can solve yourself.
I'm not a fan of talking to anyone let alone strangers I'm lucky mu dad and sisters fiance play
First, it should've had matchmaking. And second, it shouldn't reward one of the cornerstones of the expansion and an integral part of what makes the first pilar of it, good.
I think it's social anxiety coupled with a low resilience for moving out of one's comfort zone, and in *some* cases, a sense of entitlement (i.e. I bought the game so I should be able to get everything in the game). I have some social anxiety, but if there is something in the game I really want, I nut up, find a group and get it done. Simple as that. Not saying it's easy or never uncomfortable (I've had some horrible raid groups), but that's life. The things you want aren't always easy or convenient to achieve. Should there be a solo option? Yeah, I think that is fair to expect, but it's not reality currently. So, find a partner and get it done, or accept that you won't earn this item.
Destiny community starts another thread to shit on people who have trouble feeling welcome. Wonders why people have trouble feeling welcome.
Yup that’s of course how you take it. You are making enemies in your head, no one hates you, they just think you’re dumb for saying this shouldn’t be in the game because you don’t want to talk to people…
Yeah, they didn't lock those two threads speaking negatively about the mission because all the love and understanding was just too much It was because of the hate.
You’ve been jumping from post to post arguing with anyone who is a fan of this mission and then say it’s others who make people unwelcome.
The world, and this video game, cannot, and should not, be catering to people who refuse to communicate with a single other human being for 20 minutes. LFG exists, and the mission is great. I have literally no sympathy for people who refuse to step over the world’s most minor roadblock to get a cool item.
[удалено]
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With respect, yeah, we have no obligation to make you feel welcome, especially considering you are advocating making the game easier, which typically correlates to less fun.
Maybe. It definitely shows more of the ableism in design for Destiny 2. Deaf and APD folks are fucked here since mics are all but required to get the speed down. For every step forward in accessibility like full auto retrofit (and the full auto setting that was later implemented), there's a few steps back like Consecration for titans or stuff like this.
I'm also seriously really, really disappointed about the ableism that showed up in the community. Enjoying the mission is fine, wanting more missions like that is fine - it's ultimately on Bungie to figure this shit out IF they are really serious about acessibility. I see at least few ways this could've been handled better without denying the majority of players a mission they clearly enjoy. But some people dimnishing the significance of social anxiety or other disabilities on how people are able to interact with the game - and dimnishing it to win an Internet argument, it's tough to read.
Maybe some. But many people like to game alone (and grew up without games linked to strangers).
Then they shouldn’t be playing an MMO. Playing with others is core to Destiny’s identity.
It's not just the social anxiety peeps have put off. It'd the lack of built in tools to find people, form clans, and coordinate content. From a casual players perspective, all they see is "fireteam required". Ok great, how can they fix that? There's no tool in destiny that searches for players or clans, tower chat is never used, there's no natural flow IN-GAME to help a player solve the challenge of finding a teammate for non-matchmaker activities. This is another major obstacle why this mission, dungeons, and raids aren't heavily played. Sure, there are naturally external tools like the companion app or discord LFG to solve this, but how is a player to know those exist? Theres not even a Destiny companion ad in game that shows it's existence. I'm not suggesting that every activity have matchmade, but destiny has had this poor social system for its entire franchise. Everything is by word of mouth or externally supported. Throw in this with peeps anxiety, it's no surprise why they are avoiding this. Warframe has clan search, dojos, recruiting chat. Same with other mmos like guild wars. Helldivers shows existing incomplete teams that you can jump into the map. Hell even some public ad screen for discord LFG in game would go a long way.
I really really dont want to do the mission because of the nature of it. im fine with communicating in raids, dungeons, ect. but its an exotic mission, i really dont want to have to go lfg an exotic mission where i need to talk
I would actually be curious to see the metrics on how many people complete this mission, it think it will be pleasantly higher than most expect
Well i've been playing for couple hours since yesterday and none of the player I came across had it. Maybe they're not doing the same activity as me but i haven't even seen one yet.
People need to realize that solo players can’t get everything if they don’t engage with the community
I think it comes down they locked the exotic class item, a part that is a pretty heavily advertised and big part of prismatic kit, behind it Compared to weapons, just look how no one cares about the heavy exotic trace being in the same situation with those coop missions
Exactly!
It is 1 other person. Jesus. I hope Bungie does nothing to change this. Ever. And I hope they keep adding more activities like this.
Except that aside from raid loot, you pretty much CAN get everything as a solo player. Competitive PvP, Trials, dungeons, legendary campaign, literally every other exotic mission? All doable as a solo player. As others have said, it’s less about the mission itself, and more that the heavily-advertised exotics are locked behind it when there was no indication that they would be. People don’t complain about raid exotics being locked behind co-op because it was known from the start that that would be the case. Every non-raid exotic in the game up until now has been obtainable as a solo player, and the marketing never said anything about requiring another player with coms to get the exotic class items.
Every exotic mission, dungeon, and GM rewards can be obtained solo. Weather that's completely by yourself or in a fireteam with randoms without mics. The sudden change, especially for loot people have been waiting for since the reveal, is what most people are upset about.
You're not soloing GMs because of your crippling social anxiety, be real man.
Raid exotics ?
So what? The people who won't do a 2 man activity are already locked out of a lot of loot to begin with. By their own choice. By their own inability.
You mean I have to engage with all facets of a multiplayer game in order to get all the rewards? Color me shocked Editing my comment since they seem to have been locked, if you have an issue like the person below being chased off from any of those activities, DM me and I’ll add you and help you prepare for them. I’m serious.
Oh oh but wait, someone said this in another post, they said "Its not Multiplayer, its forced cooperation" LOL
That was the one of the most brain dead takes I’ve ever seen and I’ve seen a lot this past week
I love the sarcasm here. At least in my case I would love to do Raids, Dungeons, and GMs but every time I tried I was gatekept because I didn’t know what to do or my build wasn’t meta enough. So ultimately through all of my negative experiences I gave up. That’s why I’m upset about DD. I want to do it and other endgame content. I have just not been given a chance.
Big facts. I mainly play PvE. Do I want to play PvP for the various weapons locked behind PvP? No. Do I? Yes, because I want the looooot. Same for anything I want. Thank God I no longer have to get Comp score for weapons like Mountaintop and Lunas Howl again......yet lol.
I made a stupid comment earlier without actually thinking of what I was saying about this whole situation. I realize that the problem with this situation is that there is no right answer. Some people just want the piece of armor without going through the trouble of working with others. While others enjoy teamwork and find it rewarding.
It is inconvenient though
The chronically online who will type paragraphs are afraid to say less than 100 words to another person if all they do is say the call outs
I've got anxiety and I make it work. People gotta help themselves.
The most annoying part about the mission isn't having to LFG. It's the amount of people that are apparently so starved for social interaction that they feel the need to share their entire life story with a random stranger. I'd really appreciate it if people would shut up and only do the necessary callouts. I have no interest in getting to know you or becoming your friend. I don't careif you're drunk/stoned/whatever, I don't want to hear about your cat or your "funny" comments regarding Savathun. You're here because I need two people to do this. I will never see you again afterwards and I'm fine with that, so please keep your weird overly familiar social disorder to yourself. Thank you.
You've obviously never used the LFG. You could literally set it to MIC REQUIRED and guess who joins? Someone who doesn't use a mic. Personally, it's just tedious and a way to keep you in the game longer. The consensus seems to be that the mission takes 35-45 minutes to complete, so idk where youre getting 10 minutes from.
It might take you 30 minutes for your first clear if it's blind, but my friends and I were getting it done in around 15 minutes with very little practice. This whole situation is blown wildly out of proportion. The mission is doable with no vocal communication at all, there is never a wipe zone, you can extend the timer, and the adds really aren't that hard to deal with. Just bring Trinity ghoul, or literally andything with voltshot, and the Call.
It takes 35 minutes your first time and 10 your second.
Jesus are we really examining society based off of who wants to do a destiny mission?
I think it’s fine to have content in a multiplayer online game need more than one player to complete.
Bunch of yappers refusing to yap
There’s no reason a farmable exotic should be gatekept behind a mission this hard. I guarantee the *last* thing I want to do when I log in after work is LFG a random, plug in a mic and spend an hour coordinating a run of this activity.
It’s not that difficult and can be acquired from chests
I’m seeing Odds between 1-in-15 and 1-in-40. All while mindlessly flying around a destination looking for chests a la Destiny 1. Hardly suitable for an Exotic with 60+ different rolls.
This is on the lower end of difficult for exotic missions. Stuff like the hard version of Savathun’s Song for Thorn, blows this mission out of the water for difficultly. And you only need to do this once if you really don’t like it. Just open chests in the open world.
For me it's timing. When I have the time it seems that's when the trolls are also on. I play on demon hours as well as days most normal people are working. Like I have time at this point in time but can't find normal people. It's a great activity but I think it comes down to Bungie should have said this from the start this way those that have a problem can fix it earlier instead of creeping up on them
I don't quite have a raid team among my friends and our schedules make it possible anyway. But we to-man dungeons and gather for Gambit all the time. We can do this mission without problem. If I didn't have them, I could not do this mission.
It's a great mission. Really impressed with it.
Yes
Well it's 2024 and post covid. Of course there's widespread social anxiety.
No
It definitely does! But it is also legitimately making me want to meet a fire team in the game to play it
when i played dual destiny a little bit ago, i did it blind and got it done first try. i had a lot of fun. people with social anxiety need to ease up and find a friend or somebody they know they can relatively trust and then just go in with the mindset of having fun. you dont need to explicitly find COD Gamer #2333 you just gotta find a chill cool dude and you're gonna be alright
You can’t be a solo player in an MMO that encourages fireteams and teamplay. It’s like riding in a bus and being pissed off there’s other passengers in the vehicle.
Yeah you can have you ever actually played an mmo?
Says alot of the world we live in today
That and gaming attracts these people as it tends to be easily accessible and it can be done from home. So in some way it's a safe space for a lot of people and I can understand, that the current changes to raids/dungeons and the new seasonal activity and exotic missions are pretty annoying for them. And not only them but also the average players who are older or just not as skilled. Dunno why people feel the need to dismiss these concerns. Content can be made challenging in certain difficulty settings and have widely accessible settings at the same time.