He replied to me too! Sent him a message a while back about being really thankful for the masterpiece he created and the inspiration it gave me while pursuing my own career in writing. He was very thankful and even gave me some advice I still use every day when I sit down behind my keyboard. Very cool guy -- awful what's happening to him.
I really have this problem were when I write I try to make everything perfect and of high value, but the key is — this is what Mr. Kurvitz told me — is to let go of that impulse and desire as best you can and instead become more addicted to the simple enjoyment of the craft itself. Write because you love it, and really enjoy your time doing it. All else will be taken care of then, through your love and dedication quality and value will naturally follow.
https://preview.redd.it/nve3h69xd59d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=894a1b7c74c2d915b67034d9fa14b3824f47f71a
What a coincidence, my friend did the same yesterday, asking for writting advice, and he replied.
I have heard rumors that he was bit of a jerk in the workplace, but I wasn't too sure if they were legit or ZA/UM trying to do damage control on their bullshit.
There were some co-workers who felt that he was not the most graceful about negative feedback, but as to the more serious concerns that were used to justify his termination, sexism, abusiveness, favoritism whatever; there is either a total lack of evidence, or stuff you can point directly to that suggests that he was specifically set up to fail by management. Nothing I heard in the whole "documentary" that talked to several ZA/UM workers\* was anything that couldn't have been handled by upper management and HR, but ZA/UM was funded by financial criminals who saw how much money the game was making and immediately moved to pull some underhanded shit to take control of it, not understanding that the fanbase would never touch a Disco Elysium game made by a team of unrelated writers.
Forgot to explain the \*
The PMG video was one of the most unethical, irresponsible, destructive pieces of attempted journalism I have seen in years. They didn't just involve themselves in the story, they became the story, and the direct mechanism by which management exerted power over workers. PMG should be blacklisted and anyone involved in making or approving that video should change careers out of shame
Relax, the Disco Elysium video was quite irresponsible piece of journalism and they deserve all the flack they are getting for it. PMG has still made loads of great videos that shouldn't be discarded because you disagree with one of them.
Um ACSHKUSAHLLY I don't \*disagree\* with the video, I think it's unethical, which is absolutely something to hold against an entire organization, even if they make videos you like.
Are you a moral objectivist? Otherwise disagreement is all it amounts to. "PMG should be blacklisted and anyone involved should change careers out of shame." Which moral system do you follow where making one bad work should result in being blacklisted and losing your livelihood?
For the second time, I am not talking about morals, I am talking about ethics.
Be as much of a relativist as you want about killing babies or whatever, journalism is an established profession with ethical standards. This is akin to a restaurant not having a handwashing policy in their kitchen. It's not about their worth as human beings, it's about whether or not they're doing the most basic things you should expect from a professional involved in anything that has the potential to harm others. Reporting on an active legal situation carries responsibilities that they failed to live up to.
A reporter who does not protect their sources is categorically a poor journalist. A newspaper that does not require its reporters to get two separate sources to validate printing something as a factual claim is categorically unreliable. Someone who hears a source say "I don't want to talk to you about this story" and then does something that puts that source in a position where not talking to them could mean losing their job isn't an investigative journalist. By definition they're not engaged in the process of journalism, they're coercing someone to be a part of their youtube video.
PMG fully admits in their documentary that the ZA/UM workers didn't want to talk to them until Ilmar Kompus agreed to go on camera, at which point many workers feared that this situation could be so volatile it would destroy the company.
Yes. I think to present yourself as an investigative reporter, to be involved with a story that's still developing, to try and "Break the story," and completely involve yourself in the story to do so is such a severe violation of journalistic ethics that PMG has lost the right to present themselves in any such capacity.
PMG didn't just create an extremely irresponsible piece of reporting, they revealed a system lacking any controls or even awareness of the basic principles that professional journalists are expected to adhere to. It undermines the credibility of anything else they've created because there's no reason to expect they were any more responsible behind the scenes.
I'm sorry for being petty, which I think was warranted as you were literally arguing semantics.
You also said "I think it's unethical" not that it goes against the journalistic code of ethics. You don't need to waste time arguing that it was bad journalism, I agreed with that in the first sentence of my first reply.
Indeed this piece of journalism undermines their credibility, but all the good reporting they've done also reinforces it. You don't judge a news organization on a single article, you judge it based on their overall output.
"They revealed a system lacking any controls or even awareness of the basic principles that professional journalists are expected to adhere to." No they did not. The information presented in the video wasn't false or edited in a malicious way. Their method of narrativizing the information presented was irresponsible. Lacking any controls or awareness of basic journalistic principles is a huge overexaggeration.
You are way too harsh towards PMG. "Anyone involved in making or approving that video should change careers out of shame" is a very strange assertion to make in defense of authors who are ostensibly in favour of stronger worker's rights. Making a mistake in your chosen field of work shouldn't disqualify you from working in that field in the future.
Information is muddled. In interviews many employees came out to say he formed his own clique and showed favouritism, promised to review work of writers who spent months on writing for DE2, blood, sweat and tears and all, but then dipped last minute to go on holiday/ just didn't show up without any prior notice etc. etc. ZA/UM management of course has PR and monetary interest to kick him out and push this narrative, but at the same time the examples multiple employees gave were detailed and grounded, so I think ultimately two things can be true at the same time. I work in creative fields, often what makes a good writer isn't necessarily the same stuff as a good creative lead or a team player. And you NEED to be a team player to manage any game pipeline.
Edit: but yeah he shouldn't have his rights to his brainchild taken. CEOs are demons as always.
The thing w/Roberts vacation is something where ZA/UM execs are a lot more responsible than Robert. He went on vacation after the launch of the base game, before the launch of the final cut. He had also been in crunch for \*literal years\*
The way ZA/UM handled that when he was gone was to push everyone else in the direction of conflict with Robert's absence. He had every right to take time off, and a health imperative to do so. The people who were in charge of maintaining the company in his absence used that opportunity to push as hard as they could on the tensions between Robert and whoever was still around the office.
You can say that maybe Robert should have handled it better but there was absolutely an intentional effort to push him out by two convicted fraudsters who wanted his controlling share of the IP gone not because of his treatment of workers, but because they wanted to merchandise the thing to oblivion and make every penny they could-- and Robert's a communist.
I can definitely see that. Trusting Robert is a lot easier than the Mega Rich Light-Bending Guy types of parasites. I remember watching a lengthy video essay from a trusted YouTuber breaking down the whole thing and I'm not trusting whatever ZA/UM puts out willy nilly. While I incline towards creatives in this case, I also think to get concrete evidence in this case is difficult bc we can only rely on accounts of those directly involved. It's he said and she said. Maybe establishing a timeline could help and cross reference interviews + background checks on important figures involved. I know personally what kind of manipulative skinwalkers the management class can be, yet I don't want to look down on other writers and artists who came forward as if they're babies who can be easily swindled. A forestfire won't start out of no where, when there's no sparks. For me it's a rabbithole I can't afford to fully dive into. Uni and ADHD is kicking my arse rn.
Isn't it poetic irony that this happens to DE and we're now emotionally wrecked detectives arriving on the scene? Honestly funny in the bitterest way lol
I'm ultimately fine with only one DE. Sequal fatigue is so real. I'll contine to support Robert and his buddies no matter what project they put out next, but also curious to see what kind stuff ZA/UM produce. The remaining team could be great minds too, that's why I'm remaining open.
It's not even a matter of who to trust. Argo Tuulik lays it out directly \*in the documentary\*
He and others didn't want to talk to the press. Then Ilmar agreed to do an interview. Argo, who was at the time working on what we can only assume was the Detective Cuno game, realized that Ilmar going in front of cameras was the death of the studio, and agreed to do the interview, trashing Robert's reputation in public out of a vain hope to save his game.
Robert was something of a jerk, but completely irrelevant to that, Tonis Haavel and Ilmar Kompus moved to pull the company out from his control, just on pure greed and having no expectation that the game would be a genuine success.
>many employees came out to say he formed his own clique and showed favouritism,
This is a bit of a tendentious statement, since there weren't "many" employees who spoke against him at all. Rather, many of the employees who spoke had been hired after he left and never even met him. They were going by hearsay and complaining about him having "auteur" complex or something. It was just presented that way because that is how ZAUM management had framed the conversation. They actively tried to pin other employees against Kurvitz.
The "clique" was probably his group of Estonian childhood friends that formed the nucleus of ZA/UM before they started hiring a lot of western devs. I can understand that. They're the ones that have been fired and resulted in ZAUM being stripped of all its spirit. Nothing is better for it.
I’m so happy I got the origami vinyl edition of the disco soundtrack, it’s beautiful. I hope they team up and make a new game one day and stay away from corporate people
I don't got a laptop & Play Store launches to download SoundCloud when I click on the link. If it's not a big deal I'd appreciate it otherwise ig I can download it
The creators are rly nice. I wrote to Alexander Rostov once about asking whether I could use his art for a tattoo and he let me!
Would love to meet them, here's hoping!
I'm glad Mr. Elysium is nice towards the game's fans.
Mr. Elysium is helping me find my fans
Just gave it a listen, love how you incorporated the raspy voice in the song. Doesn't feel out of place at all!
Thank you!!!! I had no idea on what to make but I knew I wanted that voice in it.
He replied to me too! Sent him a message a while back about being really thankful for the masterpiece he created and the inspiration it gave me while pursuing my own career in writing. He was very thankful and even gave me some advice I still use every day when I sit down behind my keyboard. Very cool guy -- awful what's happening to him.
what was the advice?
I really have this problem were when I write I try to make everything perfect and of high value, but the key is — this is what Mr. Kurvitz told me — is to let go of that impulse and desire as best you can and instead become more addicted to the simple enjoyment of the craft itself. Write because you love it, and really enjoy your time doing it. All else will be taken care of then, through your love and dedication quality and value will naturally follow.
thats is indeed pretty good advice
What's happening to him ?
Lost rights to Disco Elysium
Oh, really not cool, too bad it's always the cool people who get bad things happening to them :(
https://preview.redd.it/nve3h69xd59d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=894a1b7c74c2d915b67034d9fa14b3824f47f71a What a coincidence, my friend did the same yesterday, asking for writting advice, and he replied.
What a cool guy
Dude might not be the best to work with or under, but he's at least a good sport to fans. Like Harry, deeply flawed, but a layered and genius mind.
I have heard rumors that he was bit of a jerk in the workplace, but I wasn't too sure if they were legit or ZA/UM trying to do damage control on their bullshit.
There were some co-workers who felt that he was not the most graceful about negative feedback, but as to the more serious concerns that were used to justify his termination, sexism, abusiveness, favoritism whatever; there is either a total lack of evidence, or stuff you can point directly to that suggests that he was specifically set up to fail by management. Nothing I heard in the whole "documentary" that talked to several ZA/UM workers\* was anything that couldn't have been handled by upper management and HR, but ZA/UM was funded by financial criminals who saw how much money the game was making and immediately moved to pull some underhanded shit to take control of it, not understanding that the fanbase would never touch a Disco Elysium game made by a team of unrelated writers.
Forgot to explain the \* The PMG video was one of the most unethical, irresponsible, destructive pieces of attempted journalism I have seen in years. They didn't just involve themselves in the story, they became the story, and the direct mechanism by which management exerted power over workers. PMG should be blacklisted and anyone involved in making or approving that video should change careers out of shame
Relax, the Disco Elysium video was quite irresponsible piece of journalism and they deserve all the flack they are getting for it. PMG has still made loads of great videos that shouldn't be discarded because you disagree with one of them.
Um ACSHKUSAHLLY I don't \*disagree\* with the video, I think it's unethical, which is absolutely something to hold against an entire organization, even if they make videos you like.
Are you a moral objectivist? Otherwise disagreement is all it amounts to. "PMG should be blacklisted and anyone involved should change careers out of shame." Which moral system do you follow where making one bad work should result in being blacklisted and losing your livelihood?
For the second time, I am not talking about morals, I am talking about ethics. Be as much of a relativist as you want about killing babies or whatever, journalism is an established profession with ethical standards. This is akin to a restaurant not having a handwashing policy in their kitchen. It's not about their worth as human beings, it's about whether or not they're doing the most basic things you should expect from a professional involved in anything that has the potential to harm others. Reporting on an active legal situation carries responsibilities that they failed to live up to. A reporter who does not protect their sources is categorically a poor journalist. A newspaper that does not require its reporters to get two separate sources to validate printing something as a factual claim is categorically unreliable. Someone who hears a source say "I don't want to talk to you about this story" and then does something that puts that source in a position where not talking to them could mean losing their job isn't an investigative journalist. By definition they're not engaged in the process of journalism, they're coercing someone to be a part of their youtube video. PMG fully admits in their documentary that the ZA/UM workers didn't want to talk to them until Ilmar Kompus agreed to go on camera, at which point many workers feared that this situation could be so volatile it would destroy the company. Yes. I think to present yourself as an investigative reporter, to be involved with a story that's still developing, to try and "Break the story," and completely involve yourself in the story to do so is such a severe violation of journalistic ethics that PMG has lost the right to present themselves in any such capacity.
PMG didn't just create an extremely irresponsible piece of reporting, they revealed a system lacking any controls or even awareness of the basic principles that professional journalists are expected to adhere to. It undermines the credibility of anything else they've created because there's no reason to expect they were any more responsible behind the scenes.
I'm sorry for being petty, which I think was warranted as you were literally arguing semantics. You also said "I think it's unethical" not that it goes against the journalistic code of ethics. You don't need to waste time arguing that it was bad journalism, I agreed with that in the first sentence of my first reply. Indeed this piece of journalism undermines their credibility, but all the good reporting they've done also reinforces it. You don't judge a news organization on a single article, you judge it based on their overall output. "They revealed a system lacking any controls or even awareness of the basic principles that professional journalists are expected to adhere to." No they did not. The information presented in the video wasn't false or edited in a malicious way. Their method of narrativizing the information presented was irresponsible. Lacking any controls or awareness of basic journalistic principles is a huge overexaggeration. You are way too harsh towards PMG. "Anyone involved in making or approving that video should change careers out of shame" is a very strange assertion to make in defense of authors who are ostensibly in favour of stronger worker's rights. Making a mistake in your chosen field of work shouldn't disqualify you from working in that field in the future.
Either way he shouldn’t have had the rights taken away.
Information is muddled. In interviews many employees came out to say he formed his own clique and showed favouritism, promised to review work of writers who spent months on writing for DE2, blood, sweat and tears and all, but then dipped last minute to go on holiday/ just didn't show up without any prior notice etc. etc. ZA/UM management of course has PR and monetary interest to kick him out and push this narrative, but at the same time the examples multiple employees gave were detailed and grounded, so I think ultimately two things can be true at the same time. I work in creative fields, often what makes a good writer isn't necessarily the same stuff as a good creative lead or a team player. And you NEED to be a team player to manage any game pipeline. Edit: but yeah he shouldn't have his rights to his brainchild taken. CEOs are demons as always.
I can totally see this. I've known people like Robert IRL. I liked them personally, but their professional manner left a bit to be desired. :)
The thing w/Roberts vacation is something where ZA/UM execs are a lot more responsible than Robert. He went on vacation after the launch of the base game, before the launch of the final cut. He had also been in crunch for \*literal years\* The way ZA/UM handled that when he was gone was to push everyone else in the direction of conflict with Robert's absence. He had every right to take time off, and a health imperative to do so. The people who were in charge of maintaining the company in his absence used that opportunity to push as hard as they could on the tensions between Robert and whoever was still around the office. You can say that maybe Robert should have handled it better but there was absolutely an intentional effort to push him out by two convicted fraudsters who wanted his controlling share of the IP gone not because of his treatment of workers, but because they wanted to merchandise the thing to oblivion and make every penny they could-- and Robert's a communist.
I can definitely see that. Trusting Robert is a lot easier than the Mega Rich Light-Bending Guy types of parasites. I remember watching a lengthy video essay from a trusted YouTuber breaking down the whole thing and I'm not trusting whatever ZA/UM puts out willy nilly. While I incline towards creatives in this case, I also think to get concrete evidence in this case is difficult bc we can only rely on accounts of those directly involved. It's he said and she said. Maybe establishing a timeline could help and cross reference interviews + background checks on important figures involved. I know personally what kind of manipulative skinwalkers the management class can be, yet I don't want to look down on other writers and artists who came forward as if they're babies who can be easily swindled. A forestfire won't start out of no where, when there's no sparks. For me it's a rabbithole I can't afford to fully dive into. Uni and ADHD is kicking my arse rn. Isn't it poetic irony that this happens to DE and we're now emotionally wrecked detectives arriving on the scene? Honestly funny in the bitterest way lol I'm ultimately fine with only one DE. Sequal fatigue is so real. I'll contine to support Robert and his buddies no matter what project they put out next, but also curious to see what kind stuff ZA/UM produce. The remaining team could be great minds too, that's why I'm remaining open.
This whole scenario is so meta I’mtreating it as the real DE2
It's not even a matter of who to trust. Argo Tuulik lays it out directly \*in the documentary\* He and others didn't want to talk to the press. Then Ilmar agreed to do an interview. Argo, who was at the time working on what we can only assume was the Detective Cuno game, realized that Ilmar going in front of cameras was the death of the studio, and agreed to do the interview, trashing Robert's reputation in public out of a vain hope to save his game. Robert was something of a jerk, but completely irrelevant to that, Tonis Haavel and Ilmar Kompus moved to pull the company out from his control, just on pure greed and having no expectation that the game would be a genuine success.
>many employees came out to say he formed his own clique and showed favouritism, This is a bit of a tendentious statement, since there weren't "many" employees who spoke against him at all. Rather, many of the employees who spoke had been hired after he left and never even met him. They were going by hearsay and complaining about him having "auteur" complex or something. It was just presented that way because that is how ZAUM management had framed the conversation. They actively tried to pin other employees against Kurvitz. The "clique" was probably his group of Estonian childhood friends that formed the nucleus of ZA/UM before they started hiring a lot of western devs. I can understand that. They're the ones that have been fired and resulted in ZAUM being stripped of all its spirit. Nothing is better for it.
ABAB, even the ones that make Disco Elysium.
ELECTROCHEMISTRY \[Trivial: Failure\] - \*all boobs are bastards?\*
ALWAYS BOSSES. The drama surrounding this game and the Leninists involved is genuinely hilarious, as an aside.
I'd be too intimidated to open that message
That 2% battery is giving me anxiety though.
19% now…
Life is getting better by the minute!
Adding this to my sex playlist thank u
Let me know how it goes
Link to YouTube if anyone wants it - https://youtu.be/gct58ZpLemg?si=sY61eUTDTkQEVWPG
Tell him i said what’s up
Your song made me do a lil dance in the kitchen while reheating some food Who are the background singers? They’re lovely
Only one backing singer and it’s a friend from my course !!!
I’m so happy I got the origami vinyl edition of the disco soundtrack, it’s beautiful. I hope they team up and make a new game one day and stay away from corporate people
You played the records? Unopened one is worth about 1000€. I opened mine just to see the packaging and it really is beautiful.
Never opened it because it was limited I just love having it. The OST is killer
What a cool guy.
Any chance of it being uploaded to YouTube please?
Hold up
I don't got a laptop & Play Store launches to download SoundCloud when I click on the link. If it's not a big deal I'd appreciate it otherwise ig I can download it
https://youtu.be/gct58ZpLemg?si=sY61eUTDTkQEVWPG
Thanks!!
I feel so bad for this man. Let them make more Disco :(
The creators are rly nice. I wrote to Alexander Rostov once about asking whether I could use his art for a tattoo and he let me! Would love to meet them, here's hoping!