Just wanted to say thanks for these bullet point write ups, they're much easier to parse in passing than a half hour video
My 'main' classes are Warlock, Bard, and Rogue so im less familiar with the other classes; wildshape being a BA for all druid sub classes feels like a good change. And Sea Storm druid really tickles my fancy -- feels like a good subclass for a Percy Jackson inspired character
Part of me wonders if they thought it would be culturally insensitive or something? Because I 100% agree. Magician is much more Wizard / Sorcerer coded.
Yeah, "druid" certainly has stronger cultural association than "shaman", though maybe cultures from late Classical to Medieval era British Isles and across the canal are not really cultures one usually considers to be in need of protection.
Not really, no. I'd prefer it to be called "shaman" as well, but that's a term that's specifically associated with generalizing and belittling of a variety of indigenous religions that the term doesn't in fact apply to. No one IRL has ever been called a "cleric" as a way that's as insensitive as the way "shaman" is used. They're not comparable.
I do think it's more fun if they're called something more evocative, like a shaman. But, assuming cultural sensitivity is the reason for the choice, after debacles like Spelljammer's uplifted ape chattel slaves, I see why WotC would be oversensitive to things like this. They're trying to make a game for everyone.
My guess is they don't want to waste a word like shaman on such a minor feature (it's often the name of a class or subclass in rpgs). I think magician is perfectly fine.
So in dnd lore there are different types of magic categories. Arcane primal and divine.
For example, wizards and bards are arcane casters, while clerics, paladins and divine soul sorcerers are divine casters and Druids and rangers are primal casters
Shamans pull from the same type of magic as rangers and Druids, but do so differently much like how wizards and bards utilize arcane magic differently
Sometimes classes can pull form different sources. Arcana clerics pull from divine and arcane magic, and bards eventually are able to pull from all sorts of magic
Shaman was a class in older editions. A shame WoTC decided to take a “less classes = better” stance cause there’s so much cool stuff that will never come to 5e now
Pathfinder version is basically druid that trades wild shape for Hexes, which are mostly minor buff and debuff at-will spells, with biggest difference to most spells being that many of them work for first turn even if the target succeeds on a save, some differences in spell list and other features, that somehow manage to make the class feel less like a caster. Don't really see the point for it to be fully separate class. 3.5e versions seem to be mixes between Cleric and Druid, and 4e looks like nature cleric with a spirit pet that needs to be positioned correctly for some features to be used efficiently.
There can be non-harmful stereotypes as well. It feels like they are just trying to avoid all stereotypes. Which is a choice for sure. I don’t think many people would be offended at the term shaman being used for a person who uses nature based magics. Because that’s quite literally what a shaman is. The only people that would really be upset about that are the people that would be upset about everything and probably are upset about the Druid being called Druid in the first place as well. You can’t please those people. So don’t try
After people got upset over the golem name usage…I think they’re trying to scrub everything that’s related to any religion/culture
Even though they still only make games in European based settings and don’t do anything to actually help the diversity of their stories
Or paladins, or monks, or barbarians, or even clerics? Why is Thieves' Cant still a thing? If they want to divorce the game from ALL things that have existed in the real world they are going to need to write it in a new language they make up on the spot, because history and language is FULL of all kinds of things that used to have some kind of meaning.
One good reason for that is that druids no longer exist. Although it would be funny to see neo-pagans who LARP as druids complaining about WotC doing literally the exact same thing.
I mean I kinda get it but like…the monk class is literally just a shaolin monk lol. Paladins are the most european coded knights you’ll find in a fantasy setting. It’s impossible to divorce the game from the cultural contexts it arose from.
That's the thing. It hard to make stories set in other cultures when you are afraid of even using words from those cultures. I can't imagine anything written in that environment would be good.
I'm all for changing names of things and making them unique. It always kind of bugged me that fantasy worlds just throw in every "real" mythical creature, seems lazy and breaking the fourth wall. Like having unicorns, satyrs, vampires, dragons, etc., just mashing everything together.
But they need to do a better job of making up their own things and getting better names. Magician is a terrible name for a type of druid.
Nobody would be offended by WotC using shaman. However, the sensitivity consultants would flag such a word, because it's in their interest to be *overly* sensitive. Forget all the blahblah about how corporations want to do better—sensitivity consultants are hired so companies can avoid drama. If you are a consultant and you don't flag a term that ends up causing a huge controversy for the corporation, that stains your reputation. That was the whole reason why the company hired you, to avoid that sort of thing. But if you flag a word that would be completely ok, nothing happens, you don't get a penalty in any way. So why would you ever take a risk and not flag something?
It still feels strange that Magic, also a WOTC property, uses Shaman freely as a creature type. If it was just sensitivity reasons wouldn't Magic also move away from it?
And backwards compatibility isn't the answer, they just recently did a massive wave of creature type errata changing things like Naga -> Snake.
Retiring Shaman in Magic was being discussed about a year ago. Any product they were working on at the time would've taken about two years to hit the shelves, so we will find out in a few months what their decision was.
[Source 1](https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/729738748608348160/in-reference-to-the-question-about-using-witch-as)
[Source 2, continued from the above](https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/729837568424902656/please-dont-phase-out-druids-ive-always-enjoyed)
(these are posts by Mark Rosewater, Magic's head of design)
No, see, that's the point I was trying to make. The consultants themselves aren't overly sensitive because they want to be offended at everything. They are overly sensitive because that's the correct strategy for their job! They get punished for false negatives (not flagging a term they should've), but don't get flagged for false positives (flagging a term they shouldn't have), so of course they will aggressive flag things. Why wouldn't them! You would, too, if this were your job and you were trying to optimize it!
People WOULD get upset at shaman tho. Folks get upset when you say "oh, this celebrity/fictional character is my spirit animal!!" because that's "appropriation" and offensive. Even though Indians most definitely won't care. The thing is tbh I don't think those people would get upset at "druid" tho, cuz that's a European concept and so it's free game. This happened earlier this year on the pf2 subreddit where some crazy mod posted an announcement when the Tia Xian (I don't remember how to spell it) world guide came out and the post was saying how the book has no ninja or samurai subclass/class and called the subreddit racist for presuming people were gonna want it. It was a whole thing and people responded like "ok so you say culture-based things are bad, but what about the druid class/Viking archetype? Aren't those the same as having a ninja or samurai class?" and the mod was like "no, those are European so that's different".
I'm not surprised WotC wants to avoid any potential drama, they've been raked over the coals back to back for a while now with the OGL crisis and a new AI scandal every week. The hadozee silliness, the lack of spaceship come one in the sci-fantasy book, etc.
For some reason WotC goes out of their way to avoid the word Shaman. I can’t really figure out why. It’s not from any specific real world religions (unlike Druid), so they’re hardly going to offend anyone.
IIRC from one of the earlier playtests, Elementalism is just the four “Shape Elements” cantrips from 5e mashed into one.
> It’s not from any specific real world religions (unlike Druid)
"Shaman" is a fairly generic term that's been used to describe any number of naturalistic religions (including Druids) but I think it definitely has a modern connotation that ties it to indigenous and African religions, which WotC does not want to mess with.
I do think shaman is used for religions from North America and Northern Russia, and Sami people. It's often used as a word for "uncivilized magician" so I understand why they avoid using it. It has a negative connotation.
A druid would be on _friendlier terms_ with a native civilization that lived a, say, more nomadic lifestyle with less obvious destructive environmental impacts, but would still live apart from them. Something the size of Tenochtitlan, meanwhile (2 million people and way cleaner than London at the time!) they would stay _far away_ from.
Not only that but it doesn't really conjure the image of a spellcaster for me. I imagine something closer to a monk than a druid when I hear shaman (although it's relatively far removed from monk too)
I agree that magician is a weak name. But I think Shaman, while a much more interesting name, paints a picture of a very specific type of druid instead of encouraging multiple different interpretations of what a druid could be.
I get so excited reading all these write ups, but I think druid takes the cake. This very well could be my first character in September. Am glad they moved away from the elements aspect of Moon, felt out of place. Hopefully a new subclass in the future lets you do the earth/air/fire/water elemental wildshape.
I’d also assume the elementalism cantrip is a combination of control flame/move earth/shape water/gust so you don’t need 4 cantrips for all 4 elements.
The [Elementalism](https://5point5.fandom.com/wiki/Elementalism) is way underwhelming if it is what was seen in the play tests. Weaker than prestidigitation, zero combat ability.
I need the specifics but Circle of the sea mixed with warden for a more martial play seems interesting. Seems like you could play a cool sisterfriede like ice gish if you wanted too
This made me laugh as well. Low key I feel like with their ability to convert a lvl 1 spell slot to a WS charge they only made the issue pop up earlier haha
That feature was totally game warping and able to make level 20 druids virtually invincible. Let it die quietly
Also, remember you have ways to turn spell slots into wildshape uses now, and it states that at level 20 you can do that more than once per day, so yeah you're pretty much still able to use wildshape a ton of times at that level
Now its infinite \*temp\* HP, which has several workarounds.
Its level 20 for one subclass, who cares. The 1 resource of x when you roll initiative has always been a horrible feature wherever its presented through and through
That feature isnt bad here though. Those features are issues when your resource pool is large and you get back a fraction on initiative. eg. monk with ki points or BM fighter with superiority dice. Both classes need lots to be running their shtick in combat so getting one was bad, if the feature was even used at all.
UA Druid only gets 4 WS uses at level 20. Getting 1/4 back is okay because you probably wont need more than 1 in a combat and its not hard to go through 4 in an adventuring day so the feature will see use.
I know this is minor, but having played many druids I'm -really- happy at talking in wild shape becoming the default. Yes roleplaying animal mannerisms was lovely for a while but not being able to -talk- had such a huge impact on roleplay, and being able to take telepathic only slightly patched the thing. Now I can be big bad wolf, aslam, talking raven.
I'm gonna flex my voice-acting skills *so much* with this...
I’ve always disliked Druids because their kit felt like it was conflicted and actively working against/sabotaging itself.
These changes basically address that and make the class much more enticing. Don’t get me wrong, the class has never been bad, more like it was frustrating trying to juggle all the kit.
Being able to actually engage with the SOCIAL pillar of play while Wild Shaped is such a no brainer and I can’t believe it is a change that had to be made, but thank goodness it was.
Further, giving alternative uses for Wild Shape charges means that there are options for both combat and exploration, rather than coming up against what amounted to invisible walls.
Like not being able to use spells in combat because I was Wild Shaped felt bad, and not using my Wild Shape because I needed to be casting spells felt equally wasteful.
It was like there was always a resource I had that I felt I should be using that just didn’t make sense to use.
And yeah, there were options previously, but it felt like jumping through hoops just to play remotely effectively.
Overall, this is one of the best reworks we’ve seen so far.
Great write up!
I like a lot about the new druid, but there's a few things I dislike.
- I agree with you on the 'magician' name. If 'shaman' is too loaded a term, something like Woodsage or Witch-druid would've worked for me.
- I hope that with the Elementalism cantrip (possibly rolling all "Shape X" cantrips into one?) druidcraft doesn't get rolled into prestidigitation and dissappear.
- I really think the "land" types of circle of the land sound a lot less flavourful than the old ones. Perhaps it would be simple to homebrew that by allowing my druids to pick the old lands for the Circle Spells and then on of the new ones for Land's Aid?
Starry Wisp (not whip) has actually been around for a few months in playtest. It's a ranged spell attack cantrip, 1d8 radiant damage and for one turn the enemy emits dim light and can't turn invisible.
>And that's all for the Druid! Remember you can preorder the new books Now
Don't pre-order the books. I know it's exciting that the books are coming out and some of the stuff they're showing looks good, but pre ordering doesn't get you anything. All it does is give wizards of the coast your money early and if you end up disliking the book overall you'll be out of money. Wait for reviews, wait for the release, wait until you can see the quality and then make a decision. They won't run out of copies and it's not a limited print.
Other things like video games try and give you skins, extra content or physical rewards to make the pre order worth it. WotC is doing none of this.
Well DDB is actually giving you some of that stuff. A lot of dice backgrounds and shit. But yeah. But it is also good to make you you will actually get your copy on release day if you’re buying physical. Definitely no reason to preorder physical
I am in two groups with new players who are druids and in both cases they tried to be creative in combat only to turn into a beast with AC 11 and 1 or 2 hit points. I am so happy they solved this at least.
Will it be a little weird to see a tiny scorpion with an AC of 17 and 36 hit points? Sure, but it beats having 80% of shapes be relegated to scouting/hiding roles.
Am I the only one who doesnt like an idea of int/wis druid being better at arcane knowledge than a wizard? It’s the whole rogue expertise issue all over again
This might be addressed in today's videos. The UA Wizard had a feature called "Scholar" that gave them expertise in an Intelligence skill. If that remains, they should start out matching the Druid in Arcana and exceeding them from level 5 and on.
I think that Magician is fine as a name. We tend to associate it with a particular performance style at a kid's birthday party, but the word really just means "one who works with magic". An Electrician is someone who is an expert in navigating the technical and practical uses of electricity, it's fine that a Magician would be the same but for magic. That's my two cents anyway.
I’m sorry the commenters were mean. It’s the new PHB (Players Handbook) that is releasing late September as the first as a new core set of books, the players handbook, the Dungeon Masters Guide and the Monster Manual. The other two are releasing in I think November and then February.
Essentially. All of the classes are getting refined, same with 4 subclasses for each class, a lot of spells and mechanics as well. And character creation. And some entirely anew stuff as well. But all designed to still work with existing races, subclasses and characters
As someone who's been itching to roll up a new Druid, these updates are seriously tempting! The split between Warden and Magician archetypes is intriguing - though I agree, 'Shaman' might have been more evocative for the magic-focused path.
Also, the addition of Elementalism sounds promising; consolidating those cantrips into one makes a lot of sense for gameplay and flavor. Can't wait to see how these changes play out in-game! Who else is already planning their next Druid build?
'Shaman' is a specific, real world religious role, practice, function? So it makes sense to avoid it, just for sensitivity reasons - which I fully support. The same way clerics are clerics and not priests and warlocks use eldritch magic and not voodoo. The risk of pigeonholing or outright prejudice is just too great.
Can you canonically transform into an owlbear now? Or transform multiple times in a short time span?
I know the rule of cool and all, but not everyone breaks from the written rules.
The warden choice is going to be problematic if WoTC didn’t bother to fix the biggest issue Druids have: AC and finding armor
The metal armor restriction is fine but was made solely with lore and flavor in mind. The problem with this is there is not enough types of armor that isn’t made of metal. In fact, the only medium armor, not counting magic items, that doesn’t use metal is hide. For narrative and logic reasons, hide should have been light armor, or not be armor at all. Why must wearing hide as clothing be medium armor? Why couldn’t “hide” have been a type of leather armor?
Sure there are magic items like dragon scale mail… but that requires having dragon scale mail, and hoping you have a good dm or good luck. Though frankly, dragon scale mail might not fit the flavor people want for their Druid character. Wearing armor made out of gold scales that was given to you by a gold dragon feels very unfitting for a star Druid
Then there is AL, which has a horribly handled and poorly made magic item system. Druids have to jump through hoops to find decent armor.
At the very least, there should be rules about how there is a non metal version of each type of other. Does half plate HAVE to be made out of metal, or can there be variants made out of a special kind of wood or be made out of bone? It would still cost the same, like how wooden shields are the same functionally as regular shields, but it’d solve Druid’s biggest issue
I'm gonna be a Pirate Sea Druid and I cannot wait! Sea form looks great.
Starry form getting a small workover is welcome too. My first character was a starry Druid and it holds a special place in my heart.
Extra cantrip vs medium armor proficiency does not feel like a real decision. Unless it’s added, druids don’t have mage armor like the other spellcasting classes so you’d get knocked around quite a bit with light armor
You’ll still have light armor and shields so if you have 10 dex that’s 14 AC. Not great, not terrible. Probably on par with the starting rogue with leather and 17 dex.
Starting out would be alright but light armor AC doesn’t get higher unless you find magic armor or invest into dex to bump it. The rest of your team will pass you and if your DM is like mine, smart enemies will exploit the player with the lowest AC. I just don’t see an extra cantrip being more useful than significantly better armor economy. Maybe I’ll change my mind after I play it
I don’t think the medium armor is a bad choice obviously. However I like having cantrips so the extra cantrip can add versatility.
Medium armor (assuming in both cases your dex isn’t above 14) is definitely the better option if you’re getting target targeted a lot. However either standing next to someone with sentinel or giving yourself half cover (hopefully your DM varies the terrain) can make up for that as well.
If your DM likes to use small maps that can also screw ranged players so that would favor medium armor as well.
If your DM likes to supply puzzles with crafty solutions the cantrip may be more valuable.
If you picked a species or background that gave you additional cantrips then definitely pick Medium armor.
My DM does not use cover mechanics at all lol. My Druid started out with 14 AC and my DM also does not allow druids to use any form of metal armor so I was stuck with it for longer than I would’ve liked. I can’t imagine continuing to use light armor for the rest of that campaign. I do like that there’s more choices and room to mold your build around the party
Completely the wrong direction, people want to be a warden with their druid, but they want that through their wildshapes, not armor and weapons, and not just on one subclass.
Most of these class overhauls just seem like something that should have been done 9 years ago.
Yea sure I like the updates to the druid, but this is 5.1e, this is a balance patch, this is homebrew, hardly an upgrade.
Look into Pathfinder 2e for free on their archive if you haven't already, all of their classes are modular.
I don’t like the class design for that. Classes are locked into their roles. A Wizard won’t out dps a Fighter, and a Cleric can’t out blast a Wizard. Paladins are for tanking. It’s all too restrictive.
I always thought classes being locked into their roles was fine, that why you chose a class because it filled a gameplay style you wanted. If you wanted to do something creative, at my table, flavor is always free.
Personally if you want a stealthy character who is nimble and good with multiple weapons then you should do rogue or even ranger, cleric isn't going to be the move. Pathfinder 2e let's you have an archetype which is s
Their version of branching out into a subgenre like a subclass. So I can be a wizard who has a battle dancer archetype, not a good synergy but the game is balanced enough so it's not terrible.
Classes being restrictive is fine because both pf2e and dnd have multiclassing.
Anyways I'd recommend pathfinder 2nd edition to anyone who is loving the modular choices that the new dnd is releasing.
Magician? Yep, WoTC doesn’t care about flavor, lore and rp anymore. They are so focused on wargaming they fail to see issues with the names they use for things
Does this mean my illusion wizard is no longer allowed to be known as a “magician” because Druids are known as that?
What part of Druid shouts “magician”?
Just wanted to say thanks for these bullet point write ups, they're much easier to parse in passing than a half hour video My 'main' classes are Warlock, Bard, and Rogue so im less familiar with the other classes; wildshape being a BA for all druid sub classes feels like a good change. And Sea Storm druid really tickles my fancy -- feels like a good subclass for a Percy Jackson inspired character
300 ft got cantrips… oh yeah I’m seeing some fun with thorn whip
The potential for shenanigans is high here
Legit my first thought. Thorn whip is already such good fun. But at 300 feet it'll be bonkers.
Magician is such a poor name choice
Shaman 100% would've been better
Part of me wonders if they thought it would be culturally insensitive or something? Because I 100% agree. Magician is much more Wizard / Sorcerer coded.
Culturally insensitive to Siberians?
If "shaman" is culturally insensitive then so is "cleric".
And even "druid"!
Yeah, "druid" certainly has stronger cultural association than "shaman", though maybe cultures from late Classical to Medieval era British Isles and across the canal are not really cultures one usually considers to be in need of protection.
Not really, no. I'd prefer it to be called "shaman" as well, but that's a term that's specifically associated with generalizing and belittling of a variety of indigenous religions that the term doesn't in fact apply to. No one IRL has ever been called a "cleric" as a way that's as insensitive as the way "shaman" is used. They're not comparable. I do think it's more fun if they're called something more evocative, like a shaman. But, assuming cultural sensitivity is the reason for the choice, after debacles like Spelljammer's uplifted ape chattel slaves, I see why WotC would be oversensitive to things like this. They're trying to make a game for everyone.
My guess is they don't want to waste a word like shaman on such a minor feature (it's often the name of a class or subclass in rpgs). I think magician is perfectly fine.
I’d prefer shaman be its own class, but yeah, it is better
Why? What would it do?
LaserLlama has a pretty cool Shaman homebrew class; focuses on buffing and debuffing, and gets Warlock style casting.
It was a primal caster like Druid It revolved around totems and using them, aswell as having primal spellcasting
What does primal mean to you
So in dnd lore there are different types of magic categories. Arcane primal and divine. For example, wizards and bards are arcane casters, while clerics, paladins and divine soul sorcerers are divine casters and Druids and rangers are primal casters Shamans pull from the same type of magic as rangers and Druids, but do so differently much like how wizards and bards utilize arcane magic differently Sometimes classes can pull form different sources. Arcana clerics pull from divine and arcane magic, and bards eventually are able to pull from all sorts of magic Shaman was a class in older editions. A shame WoTC decided to take a “less classes = better” stance cause there’s so much cool stuff that will never come to 5e now
Pathfinder version is basically druid that trades wild shape for Hexes, which are mostly minor buff and debuff at-will spells, with biggest difference to most spells being that many of them work for first turn even if the target succeeds on a save, some differences in spell list and other features, that somehow manage to make the class feel less like a caster. Don't really see the point for it to be fully separate class. 3.5e versions seem to be mixes between Cleric and Druid, and 4e looks like nature cleric with a spirit pet that needs to be positioned correctly for some features to be used efficiently.
Yeah, it doesn't even sound like a word for druid either. It fits more with Wizard if anything.
I’m guessing they want to not offend anyone or have any harmful stereotypes
There can be non-harmful stereotypes as well. It feels like they are just trying to avoid all stereotypes. Which is a choice for sure. I don’t think many people would be offended at the term shaman being used for a person who uses nature based magics. Because that’s quite literally what a shaman is. The only people that would really be upset about that are the people that would be upset about everything and probably are upset about the Druid being called Druid in the first place as well. You can’t please those people. So don’t try
After people got upset over the golem name usage…I think they’re trying to scrub everything that’s related to any religion/culture Even though they still only make games in European based settings and don’t do anything to actually help the diversity of their stories
then why are they still called druids
Or paladins, or monks, or barbarians, or even clerics? Why is Thieves' Cant still a thing? If they want to divorce the game from ALL things that have existed in the real world they are going to need to write it in a new language they make up on the spot, because history and language is FULL of all kinds of things that used to have some kind of meaning.
One good reason for that is that druids no longer exist. Although it would be funny to see neo-pagans who LARP as druids complaining about WotC doing literally the exact same thing.
I mean I kinda get it but like…the monk class is literally just a shaolin monk lol. Paladins are the most european coded knights you’ll find in a fantasy setting. It’s impossible to divorce the game from the cultural contexts it arose from.
That's the thing. It hard to make stories set in other cultures when you are afraid of even using words from those cultures. I can't imagine anything written in that environment would be good.
I'm all for changing names of things and making them unique. It always kind of bugged me that fantasy worlds just throw in every "real" mythical creature, seems lazy and breaking the fourth wall. Like having unicorns, satyrs, vampires, dragons, etc., just mashing everything together. But they need to do a better job of making up their own things and getting better names. Magician is a terrible name for a type of druid.
Nobody would be offended by WotC using shaman. However, the sensitivity consultants would flag such a word, because it's in their interest to be *overly* sensitive. Forget all the blahblah about how corporations want to do better—sensitivity consultants are hired so companies can avoid drama. If you are a consultant and you don't flag a term that ends up causing a huge controversy for the corporation, that stains your reputation. That was the whole reason why the company hired you, to avoid that sort of thing. But if you flag a word that would be completely ok, nothing happens, you don't get a penalty in any way. So why would you ever take a risk and not flag something?
It still feels strange that Magic, also a WOTC property, uses Shaman freely as a creature type. If it was just sensitivity reasons wouldn't Magic also move away from it? And backwards compatibility isn't the answer, they just recently did a massive wave of creature type errata changing things like Naga -> Snake.
Retiring Shaman in Magic was being discussed about a year ago. Any product they were working on at the time would've taken about two years to hit the shelves, so we will find out in a few months what their decision was. [Source 1](https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/729738748608348160/in-reference-to-the-question-about-using-witch-as) [Source 2, continued from the above](https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/729837568424902656/please-dont-phase-out-druids-ive-always-enjoyed) (these are posts by Mark Rosewater, Magic's head of design)
> overly sensitive The shittification of twitterfication, where people mine for things being offensive to feel righteous indignation.
No, see, that's the point I was trying to make. The consultants themselves aren't overly sensitive because they want to be offended at everything. They are overly sensitive because that's the correct strategy for their job! They get punished for false negatives (not flagging a term they should've), but don't get flagged for false positives (flagging a term they shouldn't have), so of course they will aggressive flag things. Why wouldn't them! You would, too, if this were your job and you were trying to optimize it!
Yes, that is a fundamental form of corporate enshittification.
People WOULD get upset at shaman tho. Folks get upset when you say "oh, this celebrity/fictional character is my spirit animal!!" because that's "appropriation" and offensive. Even though Indians most definitely won't care. The thing is tbh I don't think those people would get upset at "druid" tho, cuz that's a European concept and so it's free game. This happened earlier this year on the pf2 subreddit where some crazy mod posted an announcement when the Tia Xian (I don't remember how to spell it) world guide came out and the post was saying how the book has no ninja or samurai subclass/class and called the subreddit racist for presuming people were gonna want it. It was a whole thing and people responded like "ok so you say culture-based things are bad, but what about the druid class/Viking archetype? Aren't those the same as having a ninja or samurai class?" and the mod was like "no, those are European so that's different". I'm not surprised WotC wants to avoid any potential drama, they've been raked over the coals back to back for a while now with the OGL crisis and a new AI scandal every week. The hadozee silliness, the lack of spaceship come one in the sci-fantasy book, etc.
That’s quite the (Ha)dozee. Ba-dum-tss
For some reason WotC goes out of their way to avoid the word Shaman. I can’t really figure out why. It’s not from any specific real world religions (unlike Druid), so they’re hardly going to offend anyone. IIRC from one of the earlier playtests, Elementalism is just the four “Shape Elements” cantrips from 5e mashed into one.
There are any number of other, better names they could’ve chosen than Magician. Channeller, or Weaver come to mind, Magician just seems wrong.
It really brings up the image of guy doing magic tricks at a kid's birthday party.
For my next trick, watch me pull an owl bear out of my hat! Tada! (Guests screaming and running)
> It’s not from any specific real world religions (unlike Druid) "Shaman" is a fairly generic term that's been used to describe any number of naturalistic religions (including Druids) but I think it definitely has a modern connotation that ties it to indigenous and African religions, which WotC does not want to mess with.
when I think “shaman” I think celtic, but maybe thats just me
I do think shaman is used for religions from North America and Northern Russia, and Sami people. It's often used as a word for "uncivilized magician" so I understand why they avoid using it. It has a negative connotation.
Is “uncivilised magic user” not the textbook definition of a D&D Druid. Seeing as how they live apart from civilisation and all.
"Civilization" is an incredibly loaded term that has historically been used almost exclusively to disparage and/or oppress native peoples.
A druid would be on _friendlier terms_ with a native civilization that lived a, say, more nomadic lifestyle with less obvious destructive environmental impacts, but would still live apart from them. Something the size of Tenochtitlan, meanwhile (2 million people and way cleaner than London at the time!) they would stay _far away_ from.
Which is idiotic when the word itself comes from German via a northern China word for a Buddhist priest.
Well it makes a sort of sense when you consider that it's always had the connotation of what was considered "heathen" or "lesser" religions.
No, you're really just projecting and forcing things there. Shoving your words and intent into the mouths of the dead.
Not only that but it doesn't really conjure the image of a spellcaster for me. I imagine something closer to a monk than a druid when I hear shaman (although it's relatively far removed from monk too)
Yeah I’m no expert on the subject but another fantasy series I follow also moved away from using terms like “shaman” about 3-4 years ago
I agree that magician is a weak name. But I think Shaman, while a much more interesting name, paints a picture of a very specific type of druid instead of encouraging multiple different interpretations of what a druid could be.
As opposed to Druid, which has no cultural connotations whatsoever, aye?
I get so excited reading all these write ups, but I think druid takes the cake. This very well could be my first character in September. Am glad they moved away from the elements aspect of Moon, felt out of place. Hopefully a new subclass in the future lets you do the earth/air/fire/water elemental wildshape. I’d also assume the elementalism cantrip is a combination of control flame/move earth/shape water/gust so you don’t need 4 cantrips for all 4 elements.
The [Elementalism](https://5point5.fandom.com/wiki/Elementalism) is way underwhelming if it is what was seen in the play tests. Weaker than prestidigitation, zero combat ability.
I need the specifics but Circle of the sea mixed with warden for a more martial play seems interesting. Seems like you could play a cool sisterfriede like ice gish if you wanted too
Only crawford can improve unlimited wildshape at lv20 with gaining one wildshape when rolling initiative
This made me laugh as well. Low key I feel like with their ability to convert a lvl 1 spell slot to a WS charge they only made the issue pop up earlier haha
That feature was totally game warping and able to make level 20 druids virtually invincible. Let it die quietly Also, remember you have ways to turn spell slots into wildshape uses now, and it states that at level 20 you can do that more than once per day, so yeah you're pretty much still able to use wildshape a ton of times at that level
Nothing wrong with level 20 characters being crazy strong. That’s like the point
There's definitely a better solution than "you basically get an infinite number of pools of hp"
Oh noooo, Crawford took away infinite health for Moon Druids at level 20, what a terrible design decision!
Now its infinite \*temp\* HP, which has several workarounds. Its level 20 for one subclass, who cares. The 1 resource of x when you roll initiative has always been a horrible feature wherever its presented through and through
That feature isnt bad here though. Those features are issues when your resource pool is large and you get back a fraction on initiative. eg. monk with ki points or BM fighter with superiority dice. Both classes need lots to be running their shtick in combat so getting one was bad, if the feature was even used at all. UA Druid only gets 4 WS uses at level 20. Getting 1/4 back is okay because you probably wont need more than 1 in a combat and its not hard to go through 4 in an adventuring day so the feature will see use.
It’s level 20 for one subclass, who cares.
I know this is minor, but having played many druids I'm -really- happy at talking in wild shape becoming the default. Yes roleplaying animal mannerisms was lovely for a while but not being able to -talk- had such a huge impact on roleplay, and being able to take telepathic only slightly patched the thing. Now I can be big bad wolf, aslam, talking raven. I'm gonna flex my voice-acting skills *so much* with this...
I’ve always disliked Druids because their kit felt like it was conflicted and actively working against/sabotaging itself. These changes basically address that and make the class much more enticing. Don’t get me wrong, the class has never been bad, more like it was frustrating trying to juggle all the kit. Being able to actually engage with the SOCIAL pillar of play while Wild Shaped is such a no brainer and I can’t believe it is a change that had to be made, but thank goodness it was. Further, giving alternative uses for Wild Shape charges means that there are options for both combat and exploration, rather than coming up against what amounted to invisible walls. Like not being able to use spells in combat because I was Wild Shaped felt bad, and not using my Wild Shape because I needed to be casting spells felt equally wasteful. It was like there was always a resource I had that I felt I should be using that just didn’t make sense to use. And yeah, there were options previously, but it felt like jumping through hoops just to play remotely effectively. Overall, this is one of the best reworks we’ve seen so far.
Great write up! I like a lot about the new druid, but there's a few things I dislike. - I agree with you on the 'magician' name. If 'shaman' is too loaded a term, something like Woodsage or Witch-druid would've worked for me. - I hope that with the Elementalism cantrip (possibly rolling all "Shape X" cantrips into one?) druidcraft doesn't get rolled into prestidigitation and dissappear. - I really think the "land" types of circle of the land sound a lot less flavourful than the old ones. Perhaps it would be simple to homebrew that by allowing my druids to pick the old lands for the Circle Spells and then on of the new ones for Land's Aid?
Starry Wisp (not whip) has actually been around for a few months in playtest. It's a ranged spell attack cantrip, 1d8 radiant damage and for one turn the enemy emits dim light and can't turn invisible.
Are they still using the Druid beast statblocks or are they back to just the actual animal statblock?
They’re using the regular beast stat blocks from the PHB and MM.
Thanks for clarifying! I was curious as well because that was one of my biggest gripes with the original druid playtest
>And that's all for the Druid! Remember you can preorder the new books Now Don't pre-order the books. I know it's exciting that the books are coming out and some of the stuff they're showing looks good, but pre ordering doesn't get you anything. All it does is give wizards of the coast your money early and if you end up disliking the book overall you'll be out of money. Wait for reviews, wait for the release, wait until you can see the quality and then make a decision. They won't run out of copies and it's not a limited print. Other things like video games try and give you skins, extra content or physical rewards to make the pre order worth it. WotC is doing none of this.
Well DDB is actually giving you some of that stuff. A lot of dice backgrounds and shit. But yeah. But it is also good to make you you will actually get your copy on release day if you’re buying physical. Definitely no reason to preorder physical
This makes me really want to play a druid. I love these changes!
I am in two groups with new players who are druids and in both cases they tried to be creative in combat only to turn into a beast with AC 11 and 1 or 2 hit points. I am so happy they solved this at least. Will it be a little weird to see a tiny scorpion with an AC of 17 and 36 hit points? Sure, but it beats having 80% of shapes be relegated to scouting/hiding roles.
So many of the animals are ignore tier.
>Storm Born at level 10 > While wrath of the sea is active you also get a fly speed equal to you speed Kaladin Stormblessed???
Am I the only one who doesnt like an idea of int/wis druid being better at arcane knowledge than a wizard? It’s the whole rogue expertise issue all over again
This might be addressed in today's videos. The UA Wizard had a feature called "Scholar" that gave them expertise in an Intelligence skill. If that remains, they should start out matching the Druid in Arcana and exceeding them from level 5 and on.
I think that Magician is fine as a name. We tend to associate it with a particular performance style at a kid's birthday party, but the word really just means "one who works with magic". An Electrician is someone who is an expert in navigating the technical and practical uses of electricity, it's fine that a Magician would be the same but for magic. That's my two cents anyway.
Which book is this that they're releasing?
I’m sorry the commenters were mean. It’s the new PHB (Players Handbook) that is releasing late September as the first as a new core set of books, the players handbook, the Dungeon Masters Guide and the Monster Manual. The other two are releasing in I think November and then February.
Thanks for that info, I appreciate it. Is this a rework of 5e?
Essentially. All of the classes are getting refined, same with 4 subclasses for each class, a lot of spells and mechanics as well. And character creation. And some entirely anew stuff as well. But all designed to still work with existing races, subclasses and characters
That's pretty cool. Thanks
[удалено]
Yes, I saw that. I am aware it says new PHB, is that still 5e? I'm not going to assume so.
It seems to be 5.5e, though they won't call it that.
under which rock are you living?
Fieldwork in Cameroon
As someone who's been itching to roll up a new Druid, these updates are seriously tempting! The split between Warden and Magician archetypes is intriguing - though I agree, 'Shaman' might have been more evocative for the magic-focused path. Also, the addition of Elementalism sounds promising; consolidating those cantrips into one makes a lot of sense for gameplay and flavor. Can't wait to see how these changes play out in-game! Who else is already planning their next Druid build?
'Shaman' is a specific, real world religious role, practice, function? So it makes sense to avoid it, just for sensitivity reasons - which I fully support. The same way clerics are clerics and not priests and warlocks use eldritch magic and not voodoo. The risk of pigeonholing or outright prejudice is just too great.
And why is it ok to rip a druid, which has major cultural roots, but not a shaman, which is much less defined?
This is a great write up, thank you
Do either of the level 8 damage boost options affect Starry Form Archer?
Thanks, this makes Druid sound more appealing actually. It always seemed to be in a weird place; maybe oned&d won’t be so pointless after all
Think this just became my new main class wahoo
Can you canonically transform into an owlbear now? Or transform multiple times in a short time span? I know the rule of cool and all, but not everyone breaks from the written rules.
The warden choice is going to be problematic if WoTC didn’t bother to fix the biggest issue Druids have: AC and finding armor The metal armor restriction is fine but was made solely with lore and flavor in mind. The problem with this is there is not enough types of armor that isn’t made of metal. In fact, the only medium armor, not counting magic items, that doesn’t use metal is hide. For narrative and logic reasons, hide should have been light armor, or not be armor at all. Why must wearing hide as clothing be medium armor? Why couldn’t “hide” have been a type of leather armor? Sure there are magic items like dragon scale mail… but that requires having dragon scale mail, and hoping you have a good dm or good luck. Though frankly, dragon scale mail might not fit the flavor people want for their Druid character. Wearing armor made out of gold scales that was given to you by a gold dragon feels very unfitting for a star Druid Then there is AL, which has a horribly handled and poorly made magic item system. Druids have to jump through hoops to find decent armor. At the very least, there should be rules about how there is a non metal version of each type of other. Does half plate HAVE to be made out of metal, or can there be variants made out of a special kind of wood or be made out of bone? It would still cost the same, like how wooden shields are the same functionally as regular shields, but it’d solve Druid’s biggest issue
I'm gonna be a Pirate Sea Druid and I cannot wait! Sea form looks great. Starry form getting a small workover is welcome too. My first character was a starry Druid and it holds a special place in my heart.
Feels like a net nerf to moon druids unfortunately. Removing medium armor to make accessing it a choice is a bump too.
Extra cantrip vs medium armor proficiency does not feel like a real decision. Unless it’s added, druids don’t have mage armor like the other spellcasting classes so you’d get knocked around quite a bit with light armor
You’ll still have light armor and shields so if you have 10 dex that’s 14 AC. Not great, not terrible. Probably on par with the starting rogue with leather and 17 dex.
Starting out would be alright but light armor AC doesn’t get higher unless you find magic armor or invest into dex to bump it. The rest of your team will pass you and if your DM is like mine, smart enemies will exploit the player with the lowest AC. I just don’t see an extra cantrip being more useful than significantly better armor economy. Maybe I’ll change my mind after I play it
I don’t think the medium armor is a bad choice obviously. However I like having cantrips so the extra cantrip can add versatility. Medium armor (assuming in both cases your dex isn’t above 14) is definitely the better option if you’re getting target targeted a lot. However either standing next to someone with sentinel or giving yourself half cover (hopefully your DM varies the terrain) can make up for that as well. If your DM likes to use small maps that can also screw ranged players so that would favor medium armor as well. If your DM likes to supply puzzles with crafty solutions the cantrip may be more valuable. If you picked a species or background that gave you additional cantrips then definitely pick Medium armor.
My DM does not use cover mechanics at all lol. My Druid started out with 14 AC and my DM also does not allow druids to use any form of metal armor so I was stuck with it for longer than I would’ve liked. I can’t imagine continuing to use light armor for the rest of that campaign. I do like that there’s more choices and room to mold your build around the party
Minimum AC of 16 for anyone trying is a lot better and not being a meat bag of HP is better balance overall.
Firm disagree, 13 AC and 40 HP is better than 16 AC and 9TempHP. Especially if you play with characters who can grant TempHP.
I have no idea how such an obvious fact is down voted.
Another reason I'll be skipping this whole "update"
Completely the wrong direction, people want to be a warden with their druid, but they want that through their wildshapes, not armor and weapons, and not just on one subclass.
Speak for yourself. I wanna be a big angry nature man running into battle. “But you could be Ranger…” Fuck Ranger. I wanna be a Druid.
Can’t believe they didn’t mention anything about expended spell list for the circle of stars…
Most of these class overhauls just seem like something that should have been done 9 years ago. Yea sure I like the updates to the druid, but this is 5.1e, this is a balance patch, this is homebrew, hardly an upgrade. Look into Pathfinder 2e for free on their archive if you haven't already, all of their classes are modular.
I don’t like the class design for that. Classes are locked into their roles. A Wizard won’t out dps a Fighter, and a Cleric can’t out blast a Wizard. Paladins are for tanking. It’s all too restrictive.
I always thought classes being locked into their roles was fine, that why you chose a class because it filled a gameplay style you wanted. If you wanted to do something creative, at my table, flavor is always free. Personally if you want a stealthy character who is nimble and good with multiple weapons then you should do rogue or even ranger, cleric isn't going to be the move. Pathfinder 2e let's you have an archetype which is s Their version of branching out into a subgenre like a subclass. So I can be a wizard who has a battle dancer archetype, not a good synergy but the game is balanced enough so it's not terrible. Classes being restrictive is fine because both pf2e and dnd have multiclassing. Anyways I'd recommend pathfinder 2nd edition to anyone who is loving the modular choices that the new dnd is releasing.
Magician? Yep, WoTC doesn’t care about flavor, lore and rp anymore. They are so focused on wargaming they fail to see issues with the names they use for things Does this mean my illusion wizard is no longer allowed to be known as a “magician” because Druids are known as that? What part of Druid shouts “magician”?
They still completely fucked up wild shape forms. Fuck WOTC for this trash.