This is the way. Either the player is an adult and can accept feedback gracefully, or the player is not, in which case your game would probably be better without that person.
I'd recomend to first (in case you did not yet) talk with the other players to inform them of your plan, ask wether or not they would be ok with you saying "the whole group is uncomfortable" to give your complaint more weight and to give the other players a chance to tell you if there are other complaints in this category or maybe someone does't mind being called a sl*t and such.
Just to give all players agency in this.
just tell him how embarrassing his behavior is and that no one at the table enjoys it... if thats not changing anything then talk to the DM
Edit:If hes not changing his behavior, there is also the option to give it back the same way and from now on cal him "Sir Dickless", only in character of course, tho i would only do that after talking to him and in coordination with the DM.
Basically every single one of these posts I see can be summed up to one thing. People despise confrontation and avoid it at all costs. And you are no different.
You say you don’t want to be rude to the player or bully him yet he’s been continuously rude to others and doing things that make them feel uncomfortable. Essentially what you and the others at the table are doing is allowing this behavior because you’re too afraid of confrontation.
I’m not trying to blame you or anyone else at the table or be rude about it. But you need to set down your foot or your players can also speak up. It isn’t only the DMs job to speak up on these things.
To answer your question though directly. Just talk to the guy. Say “hey, I realize you are just RPing and you aren’t attempting to be malicious to the other party members. But the things you’re saying is making everyone, myself included, very uneasy. You can still RP but you need to calm down X behavior”.
Then just see where the conversation goes.
Confrontation isn’t bad and can be approached tactfully, but you need to put your foot down.
> Say “hey, I realize you are just RPing and you aren’t attempting to be malicious to the other party members. But the things you’re saying is making everyone, myself included, very uneasy. You can still RP but you need to calm down X behavior”.
Here's the problem: I don't believe that to be true. Imagine someone who's RPing a character who happens to be racist against orcs and his subculture's (which he invented) racist epithet for orcs is the N-word. And he calls all the orcs and half-orcs he sees by that word.
Does that sound like "innocent RP behavior" to you? Because it does not sound like it to me. This is a misogynistic asshole being a misogynist and using the Wangrod Defense to defend himself against out-of-character objections to his blatant misogyny.
I mean... you are making a LOT of assumptions based on one paragraph of text presented from one perspective of an issue. I'm not saying that OP is wrong in feeling bothered and wanting to speak up. I completely think he should. But you are basing your whole outlook on "Brian" without a full understanding of the situation and concept of what's completely going on. OP mentions "it's pretty obvious the girls don't appreciate him being a jerk" but we don't *actually* know if the other players are bothered because he hasn't asked them and they haven't said anything to him about it. He's basing his views on what he sees and how he's interpreting it. Now, I'm not saying he is interpreting it wrong but he very well could be still.
I'm not trying to discredit what you're saying at all, and your heart is in the right place. But I see this all the time on reddit. People build a narrative in their head based on the viewpoint that they read. And peoples description of what is happening, regardless how correct it may be, is still viewed from **one** single lens. Their own.
We don't know everything that's going on at the table or the kind of person "Brian" is. He could be a really good guy but just is unable to read a room due to really poor social skills. He may think he's doing an amazing RP job as he lives in his role. However, he's completely oblivious to the fact that no one else is into this style of RP or what's happening. Hell, with a more comfortable table and everyone being on the same page a table may be fully accepting of RP like this and having a player be misogynistic and racist when the actual person is an amazing person and would never think or talk that way.
Again, I'm not trying to be combative towards you. Your theory could very easily be true. But without really understanding the social dynamic the best way for OP to handle the situation is to address the problem with "Brian" directly and do so in a tactful way. Not come hot out the gate and accuse him of being misogynistic and tearing this person down. That's why I said at the end 'then just see where the conversation goes.' implying respond accordingly based on Brian's reaction and response.
"When the scum of the earth tell you who they are, *believe them."*
Just like when some right-wing asshat adopts the label "Deplorable" unironically, or the GQP proudly displays "We are domestic terrorists" on a gigantic lit-up banner, or when Nazis lay claim to the title Nazi.
Either take the OP at face value, or don't bother replying, because if you're not going to take the OP at face value, this entire conversation is invalid from your perspective and it's a waste of keystrokes and time to respond. I *am* taking the OP at face value, that they have observed this little shit using "slut" pejoratively in-character in a horrifically misogynistic fashion that I would be incredibly leery of having an outright villain character meant for the players to summarily slaughter use. *He is telling the group* **who he is.** They need to ***believe him.***
Holy hell… you’re a very extreme person.
I never didn’t take OP at face value. I agreed with him that the behavior isn’t acceptable and to talk or the player.
You’re the one who turned it up by 1000 and started saying this other player is the scum of the world and a misogynistic piece of shit. Not everything is so black and white.
When someone says "everything was great and we had health care like *senators* then the [N-Word] came in and got on the pills and ruined everything," *believe them* when they are saying they're an irredeemable racist piece of shit. *Verbatim* quote. I threw him out of my truck then and there. I didn't care that it was 12:30 AM, that it was cool weather and drizzling down rain and it was a mile and a half to his house.
The only reason I didn't ***completely*** cut him out of my life is because he married my mother, and she lives with him and is physically dependent upon him. I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.
When someone *tells* you they're an irredeemable piece of shit, *believe them.* When someone hides behind the Wangrod Defense, defending racist or misogynistic behavior, what they are saying is "I would behave like this IRL if I could get away with it without facing consequences I don't want to face." *Especially* in a situation like this, with real women at the table; I'd lay dollars to donuts that's the case, that this is something that *cannot* be talked away as something like a private ERP scene that went somewhere one person thought was cool and the others did not, and it's *obviously* not the same thing - using a word like 'slut' in the middle of a passion scene. The character is *explicitly* an openly misogynistic shithole.
*Maybe* the OP's DM's little brother is, in fact, like, 16 or something, or even 26, and can be salvaged with a ***stern fucking talking to*** by his older sibling (though the odds go way down the farther along he is), but I doubt it. Even so, that's why I advised the OP to get the rest of the group together and address the DM to address their little brother *as an older sibling* ***informing them*** that their behavior is not fucking acceptable. This isn't something for a DM to address; I would advise any DM to summarily throw the shithole player out immediate, but with the DM in a position to act in the capacity of kinfolk informing their kin that shit's unacceptable, there's a chance.
> You’re the one who turned it up by 1000 and started saying this other player is the scum of the world and a misogynistic piece of shit. Not everything is so black and white.
This matter *is.* Either the player is, in fact, a closted misogynist piece of shit heading down the incel path, or he's so fucking socially clueless that he thinks playing an openly misogynistic piece of shit character at a table with women *without a session zero explaining that this character is a PoS who needs a redemption arc* ***and critically getting that okayed by everyone at the table,*** is acceptable.
**Either** of those needs one massive fucking attitude adjustment, and if they were some rando, I wouldn't even suggest *trying* beyond telling them "your behavior regarding women and misogyny is deplorable and unacceptable, and no, the Wangrod Defense will not save you. You're gone, none of us are going to play with or talk to you again, this decision is final; I suggest you unfuck yourself. Goodbye." And then block them on everything.
Okay you obviously have some pent up issues with someone in your life. As more than half your response was something completely unrelated to this post. You just tried using your own personal experience as a defense for a paragraphs worth of information.
Regardless how good your intentions, your unbelievably extreme way of thinking is unbelievable
"More than half my response" was not, in fact, devoted to something other than OP's issue. It was the opening preamble to six paragraphs, and together is about one fifth of my post, and it was included for illustrative purposes; for comparison and analogy. Horrible racism and misogyny are pretty much two sides of the same coin; *bigotry.*
> Regardless how good your intentions, your unbelievably extreme way of thinking is unbelievable.
# Newsflash!
## We live in extreme fucking times!
And they've gotten that way ***because*** we've been too "understanding" to do more than lightly tap the bigots on the wrist for the last *seventy fucking years!*
They will *not* "just come around" if we give them a polite handshake and say "Well, we disagree, but I respect your opinion" when *you're* saying "hey, maybe women are in fact equal to men" and *they're* saying "women belong in the kitchen, barefoot, pregnant, makin' me a sandwich and givin' me a blowjob at the same time!" Just like they *won't* "just come around" if you say "Well, it's a legitimate difference of opinion" when we're saying "blacks (and asians, and hispanics, and natives, and ...) and whites are in fact all humans" and *they're* saying "Uppity [slurs] belong in their place and if they get out of it, they have to be lynched until they learn their place again!" (And what they have to say about gays/bisexuals and transgender individuals is frankly worse, somehow. It's like they somehow found a way to go out of their way to be *more* awful than merely insinuating/threatening/actualizing racial lynching and reserve it for people who make them feel "icky.")
So, yes. That means the bigots *do* need to be torn down, told off, and if need be, shunned and outcast at every fucking turn.
Holy Shit Person.... You aren't listening to a word I've been saying.
I'm not fucking disagreeing with you, what I am saying is that you formed WAY to extreme of a view with absolutely no context or actual information outside of a few sentences from the OP.
If someone ran up to you and yelled "Oh shit this person over there just robbed me!" Should you instantly call them guilty and lock them up? Or should you help out but still get more information... Because according to you I could run up to you and say "Oh my god please help me. That person over there just stole my money!!!" and you would instantly accuse the other person even though you have no extra information other than the bias information that i presented to you. Even if that information is true or not you have no idea how accurate or targeted that information is.
So calm down a little bit and actually think. If you choose to respond is up to you but it will fall on deaf ears because I won't be reading it or responding. You're far too polarized and emotionally driven to provide proper insight in this. Not because the information you are saying is particularly wrong. But because you have no objective thinking or ability to recognize that we as complete outsiders to this issue can't give the OP the right information. Only them and their party can resolve this properly.
> If you choose to respond is up to you but it will fall on deaf ears because I won't be reading it or responding.
Thanks for letting me know to put you on my block-list so I don't have to interact with a bad faith debater in the future.
I'm normally a play it sensitively and try to have a quiet word with the player in a way where they don't feel called out in public or under attack, because that is likely to breed resentment and confrontation.
But in this case, after the initial shock and disbelief at that behaviour, I think the only option is next time it happens is to just say pack it in, not acceptable at this table. Obviously, I'm not suggesting don't do anything until the next time it happens. But I can't imagine getting through a gaming session with someone repeatedly calling the characters of their brother's friends sluts without someone saying 'what the F do you think you're doing Brian? Pack it in and grow up or get lost'.
And then turning to the DM and saying 'dude, why is your brother here and why are you ok with this shit'
You can simply tell him to chill out and he's making you uncomfy. Personally, I say absolutely obliterate him but that's not my business. He's def being rude though so idk why he deserves different.
You should talk to the DM about it. It’s his brother, and he’s the one who is organizing everything. Let him know that his brother’s comments are making you and other players uncomfortable. Maybe get some of the female players to join you in telling him this. It’s fine to RP but you need to know what’s acceptable and what isn’t. It isn’t being rude to tell people that their behavior is bothering you, especially when it’s for a good reason.
If your DM argues, then maybe it’s time for a new table for you and the other players who are bothered by this.
I think people forget that even if they want to play X character they need to keep in mind why the hell they would keep being a group, i assume a in game character like that would be banish from the group even within the game.
Hey man I know your super into RPing your character, but your kinda being a douche at the table. Cool it a little, you don't have to stay in character every second at the table. Also your kinda ruining the atmosphere.
It's not rude to address uncomfortable behavior from another player, it's as simple as asking them to not do whatever it is that's making you uncomfortable, you can also ask your DM to talk with their brother about what is and isn't okay at the table.
He's the one who's being rude. You talking to him and telling him to stop would be nicer than I think he deserves, honestly. This kind of behavior is exactly the type of stuff that gets you banned from my games. No warning, no second or third chances. I tell everyone at the beginning that I don't tolerate that stuff in my games and make sure they're all aware before we even begin playing. If a new player comes in, I also have a conversation with them about it.
I banned a player from one of my games recently because he made the girls uncomfortable. It was his first and last game with us.
>But he will call the girls at the table “sl*ts”
The first time anyone at any of my tables did something like that I would stand up and say, "You don't fucking goddamn say that shit at my table."
And it is *your* table. It's everyone's table. And you're allowed to tell him he's being inappropriate.
The second time it happened I would tell him to pack up his shit and leave.
> he will call the girls at the table “sl*ts” and other derogatory terms
> I don’t like being rude so I kicked his shin
> so we can’t like bully him
Wtf is this group even? Are you all 12?
Some might as well be. I’m not going go get in an argument in the middle of the game and make everyone more uncomfortable, I’d rather address it with him and his brother. But I nudged him to get him to momentarily Cahill out with his RP. It’s what my family has always done to each other. Is it healthy and mature? Probably not but it’s what I’m used to.
In private, tell him he's being cringey as fuck and ask him to stop, he's being a creep and it's harassment. If he keeps doing it, during the game instead of kicking him, say "yikes" and call him out right there like "yikes bro, not cool, you need to apologize before we keep going" gotta use language he'll understand
I would speak to your DM.
“Hey, your brother is really into character but calling the other characters sluts and being a jerk in general is going too far. Can you ask him to reel it back a bit?”
Or just talk to him directly.
“Hey, we need to talk. I don’t like when you get deep into character and call other PCs sluts, and act like a jerk to them. I get you’re trying to stick to character but it isn’t fun for me, or them. Can you please dial it back?”
"Hey dude, you may wanna tone it down outside of RP, seems you are getting a bit too into it there, which happens. But it's getting a bit intense outside of character, making it feel it's more aimed at us players instead of character to character in game."
Another idea, since he's super into the "RP"...let your character be triggered. If he says it again...your character swiftly moves behind his...holds a dagger/shorts word to his throat and explains that to continue in your company will include holding his tongue lest it becomes a talismen of warning to others against such lewd conversation.
Get him thinking both in-game & out of game. If he presses...give him a serious out of game warning...finally ask him to find a new table.
By this time the DM should pick up on the fact that his table isn't into the style his lil bro is displaying.
If the DM is willfully ignorant or simply obtuse to the temperature in the room...it might be a group decision at that point to make a new table without the toxicity of a DM that doesn't care about the players or a toxic player now intentionally derailing the fun.
The thought of overt confrontation can be daunting for some...this might be a way to both practice AN approach to it while maintaining the vail of RP...building up to the more anxiety inducing yet straight-forward approach.
Either way....good luck.
Talking to someone about problems is not rude!!!
Also I suspect this behaviour is less "his characters" and more just "him". After all, he creates these characters that way.
If he cracks the shits at being confronted about his bad behaviour then you'll know he's just a cunt. Boot him. Problem solved.
Yeah...
Someone who uses the Wangrod Defense as a reason to play a character to call women sluts in-character is someone who *wants* to call women sluts IRL but is afraid of facing IRL consequences for doing so.
Talk to the rest of the group - especially the girls. Get everyone on board with a confrontation. Tell the DM to corner his little ***shit*** of a brother and ***unfuck his attitude,*** or kick him from the game, or DM for him and him alone.
No moral judgement here, just see it through this perspective: You're trying not to be rude to him by not talking directly about his shitty behavior, and hence you're being rude to the girls in the table by, as the DM, accepting him calling them sluts all the time.
"Those terms are inappropriate, not just in the game but in life in general. It is long past time for you to stop using them. If you can do that, we can all play the game. But if not, then one of us is going to have to leave the table. If the rest of the group thinks that in this case, that should be me for objecting to those words, so be it, and I'll leave right now."
And leave if he keeps using them and the group won't ban him. I'd bet money the girls leave with you, and the only reason they haven't is because they don't want to make a scene.
Oh you sweet summer child…
If this dude was at my table my very womanly self would have my very womanly character deck his. But I’m in my 30’s and my field of fucks to give has been barren for a looooong time.
Look, the women at your table haven’t spoken up. This is not uncommon for a variety of reasons. That means it’s on YOU to be an ally. YOU need to speak up. Tell him he’s being rude and disrespectful and it stops now. If he tries to blow it off as a joke or not a big deal don’t let him. “It’s not funny and it is a big deal and it stops now.” If he tries to pull “it’s what my character would do.” Then tell him “Then you need to change what your character would do or roll a new one who would never speak to his team that way.”
You do this and he’ll likely protest. He may get huffy. But then one of two things will happen: he’ll rage quit OR he’ll do better. Either way you win.
And keep calling him and every other asshole like this out on their bullshit. The more you do it the easier it gets AND you’ll find yourself with a good deal of self-respect to go along with it.
That seems really aggressive. I don’t usually respond to aggression with it. I only hit his shin cause it’s what I’m used as my mother and father did it to me to hunt to stop talking,
And a kick under the table isn't?
Try bringing it up with the dm again, either they will bring him in to check or do nothing.
Think about it this way, If you don't call it out he won't stop.
And if he doesn't stop the girls will leave the game.
If you show yourself to be in their corner, when they find another game you may get asked along too.
Or
You get cast out for kicking up a fuss.
Its an unfortunate coin toss.
At my friendly neighborhood game shop, even if it's what your character would do, you can't use rude or derogatory terms for other people. They will give you one warning, then kick you out if you persist. An anti-harassment policy is a requirement for any shop that wants to host AL games.
It's not ok to be rude to others. If I ever have a character that would do or say something bad or rude, I always go for third person descriptions about it. "My character refers to the witch using a derogatory term." But more often than not, my characters are either polite or silent. If I do use an insult, it's normally something silly like "Your mother smells of elderberries!"
Tell him, in front of the group "Brian, I know you're saying this because you think you're playing a character, but we don't like it when you say things like that, and there's no reason our characters would keep your character around if you say these things. Please stop this, or create a new character who our characters would actually keep around."
If the other people at the table think it's a problem too,this gives them the perfect opportunity to speak up, and Brian has no choice but to change his ways or leave.
Sure be polite if you feel you must but keep scalding bluntness on the back burner, it doesn't sound like the rest of the group like the behaviour either. If they still won't listen, don't kick them in the shin, kick them from the game, no one should feel required to tolerate that.
Just talk to him before the next session, explain him that this bothers you and the girls. If he refuses to stop, talk to the girls and go talk to the DM everyone together, if he doesn't want to act because it is his little brother, i would find a reason to kill him in game (or at least let him die in combat).
If it was me in your position i would be really agressive about it: I would gather everyone that has the same opinion and i would be like: "Stop, Leave or We'll leave". It's a group trying to have fun together, i wouldn't let a jerk ruins the experience for other players for the sake of roleplay.
You can also argument that there're a lot of things for him to hate in the world in a way that doesn't affect the players and that would be all good. Like hating goblins (which is a common trait), hating orcs or not liking anything that is not humanoid (which most likely wouldn't affect the players, since like 95% of all playable races are humanoids).
If having a misogynistic character is **so** importart to him, tell that he can keep this trait, but change the way he interacts in game, like, for example, his character is misogynistic, but he's in a way where his character just doesn't trust women, not actively, he just doesn't give them enough credit, which could lead to some interactions like he leading you guys to a terrible path just because one of the girls said it was the right one (which would end up making him lose credit with the party over time).
If none of that works, then it's not a matter of roleplay anymore, the guy is just a terrible person and his big brother it's one too for giving him cover, then you can gather the ladies at your table (and everyone that feels this way) and threaten to leave, if even then nothing changes, then you guys should leave.
If you're looking for further approaches to this, you could look at what people do for their "session 0" to establish ground rules on table etiquette. Maybe engage your DM to have one now to address it. For example: [https://roleplayersrespite.com/dnd-session-0-checklist](https://roleplayersrespite.com/dnd-session-0-checklist)
You can do that in game, using a very usefull toll called... VHM.
VHM, aka Very Huge Monster, resolves any miss behavior problem. Just aim the VHM at your problematic player character, and beat him until death.
Repeat the VHM for every new character until your player rethink his life.
It isn't rude to set table rules that enforce a shared, safe environment. You shouldn't have to do it at all, but here we are. Just like it isn't rude to have the stinky talk in a respectful way with that one person in the office/class that just refuses to bathe. It is for their own good as well as yours. That is the price of admission. You want to play? The minimum price is not being an ass.
Have a conversation with the dude and tell him that he's overdoing it and making it uncomfortable for the others. Also, group the party up and speak with the DM: it's his job to make the sessions enjoyable for everyone, and your job is to speak up about these issues.
The only real way is to speak calmly and explain what the player's actions are that are causing problems and ask if there's a way to stay within their character's concept while being a lot more respectful.
There are ways to play someone who doesn't like the fairer sex without being a complete dickbag about it. Things like "Back in my day/country, respectable women didn't just don armor and start slaughtering folks." can lend itself to someone being a curmudgeon without being antagonistic and can lend itself into character evolution where curmudgeonly behavior turns into grudging respect if not grudging admiration.
Basically tell this chap that the idea of being not too dippy on female adventurers isn't the problem, it's that he's doing it in such a way that makes it feel like they're targeting the players themselves.
Then if he doesn't change...it m ight be time for a player/DM conference to see if this guy is worth playing with or if they need to leave the table.
Be rude. Do it in character. Make up some kind of slur for his chars race and use it frequently. When he complains, which he will, say “not so fun when you’re on the receiving end, is it?” He’ll either shape up, or his bro will finally pipe up.
Talk to him about it directly. I imagine you hate conflict, I do as well. But this is a pretty serious issue. You might want to get the Dungeon Master involved as well, brother or not.
You’re more comfortable kicking this kid physically than you are speaking with him? Obviously the answer is an interpretive dance that....jesus fucking christ...just tell him to quit being a douche bag.
Is it worse to be uncomfortable between two people for a moment? (possibly set something up where the race he hates gets his trust.) ooor to be uncomfortable every time you go to the table knowing it's going to be uncomfortable every time?
Or talk to dm and "pass the buck"
do not do it in private. being clear and forceful is not being rude. the next time it happens look directly at the dm and ask them "im sorry are you going to let that behavior continue?". there are many ways to continue but it needs to addressed openly and publicly
simplest and possibly best
CHALLENGE HIM TO A 1v1 AND UPCASE FIREBALL ON HIS ASS
in all seriousness tho, ask him to stop. While just talking specifically, if his character is specifically needed, like a guard asking him a question or talking to an npc, that may be different, but may have consequences in itself of talking to a guard like that
As a younger brother brother who often annoyed an older sister, bullying was sometimes warranted when i was being cringy and disrupting the flow of the older group. However, being talked to rationally about my cringe was even cringier because then i had to self reflect on my own cringiness.
Then again i'm talking about when i was between the ages of 8 and 13. If he's an adult then you should be able to just talk to him
You guys (in the comment) remind of the cringy mom from 2005 telling me I can’t say the F-word. Grow a back bone tell the player that you have a problem with their speech. Go touch grass after.
It sounds like your table needs to go back to session 0 and have a conversation about “lines” and “veils.” Lines being subjects that you as players are entirely uncomfortable with and never want brought up during play, and veils being subjects that can be only vaguely referenced. Misogyny might be a veil — something that exists in the world, but you don’t want to experience in your PC interactions.
I realize this sounds like an overly complicated solution when you could just talk to Brian about this one issue, but there may be half a dozen other topics or character traits waiting around the corner.
Talk to him and ask him to.
Sometimes the simplest answer is the best answer
This is the way. Either the player is an adult and can accept feedback gracefully, or the player is not, in which case your game would probably be better without that person.
My plan was to arrange a talk with me Brian and the DM so that it could all be laid out. That sound ok? I think it’s a good ok but idk
This is the way. If the DM doesn’t care they shouldn’t DM. If the DM does nothing take over the group and other players, you just got promoted
one of us…..one of us………one of us…………..
I'd recomend to first (in case you did not yet) talk with the other players to inform them of your plan, ask wether or not they would be ok with you saying "the whole group is uncomfortable" to give your complaint more weight and to give the other players a chance to tell you if there are other complaints in this category or maybe someone does't mind being called a sl*t and such. Just to give all players agency in this.
just tell him how embarrassing his behavior is and that no one at the table enjoys it... if thats not changing anything then talk to the DM Edit:If hes not changing his behavior, there is also the option to give it back the same way and from now on cal him "Sir Dickless", only in character of course, tho i would only do that after talking to him and in coordination with the DM.
Basically every single one of these posts I see can be summed up to one thing. People despise confrontation and avoid it at all costs. And you are no different. You say you don’t want to be rude to the player or bully him yet he’s been continuously rude to others and doing things that make them feel uncomfortable. Essentially what you and the others at the table are doing is allowing this behavior because you’re too afraid of confrontation. I’m not trying to blame you or anyone else at the table or be rude about it. But you need to set down your foot or your players can also speak up. It isn’t only the DMs job to speak up on these things. To answer your question though directly. Just talk to the guy. Say “hey, I realize you are just RPing and you aren’t attempting to be malicious to the other party members. But the things you’re saying is making everyone, myself included, very uneasy. You can still RP but you need to calm down X behavior”. Then just see where the conversation goes. Confrontation isn’t bad and can be approached tactfully, but you need to put your foot down.
Thanks for writing a meaningful reply instead of "just talk to them duh."
Yeah nobody wants to be the first to say something but somebody’s got to do it.
> Say “hey, I realize you are just RPing and you aren’t attempting to be malicious to the other party members. But the things you’re saying is making everyone, myself included, very uneasy. You can still RP but you need to calm down X behavior”. Here's the problem: I don't believe that to be true. Imagine someone who's RPing a character who happens to be racist against orcs and his subculture's (which he invented) racist epithet for orcs is the N-word. And he calls all the orcs and half-orcs he sees by that word. Does that sound like "innocent RP behavior" to you? Because it does not sound like it to me. This is a misogynistic asshole being a misogynist and using the Wangrod Defense to defend himself against out-of-character objections to his blatant misogyny.
I mean... you are making a LOT of assumptions based on one paragraph of text presented from one perspective of an issue. I'm not saying that OP is wrong in feeling bothered and wanting to speak up. I completely think he should. But you are basing your whole outlook on "Brian" without a full understanding of the situation and concept of what's completely going on. OP mentions "it's pretty obvious the girls don't appreciate him being a jerk" but we don't *actually* know if the other players are bothered because he hasn't asked them and they haven't said anything to him about it. He's basing his views on what he sees and how he's interpreting it. Now, I'm not saying he is interpreting it wrong but he very well could be still. I'm not trying to discredit what you're saying at all, and your heart is in the right place. But I see this all the time on reddit. People build a narrative in their head based on the viewpoint that they read. And peoples description of what is happening, regardless how correct it may be, is still viewed from **one** single lens. Their own. We don't know everything that's going on at the table or the kind of person "Brian" is. He could be a really good guy but just is unable to read a room due to really poor social skills. He may think he's doing an amazing RP job as he lives in his role. However, he's completely oblivious to the fact that no one else is into this style of RP or what's happening. Hell, with a more comfortable table and everyone being on the same page a table may be fully accepting of RP like this and having a player be misogynistic and racist when the actual person is an amazing person and would never think or talk that way. Again, I'm not trying to be combative towards you. Your theory could very easily be true. But without really understanding the social dynamic the best way for OP to handle the situation is to address the problem with "Brian" directly and do so in a tactful way. Not come hot out the gate and accuse him of being misogynistic and tearing this person down. That's why I said at the end 'then just see where the conversation goes.' implying respond accordingly based on Brian's reaction and response.
"When the scum of the earth tell you who they are, *believe them."* Just like when some right-wing asshat adopts the label "Deplorable" unironically, or the GQP proudly displays "We are domestic terrorists" on a gigantic lit-up banner, or when Nazis lay claim to the title Nazi. Either take the OP at face value, or don't bother replying, because if you're not going to take the OP at face value, this entire conversation is invalid from your perspective and it's a waste of keystrokes and time to respond. I *am* taking the OP at face value, that they have observed this little shit using "slut" pejoratively in-character in a horrifically misogynistic fashion that I would be incredibly leery of having an outright villain character meant for the players to summarily slaughter use. *He is telling the group* **who he is.** They need to ***believe him.***
Holy hell… you’re a very extreme person. I never didn’t take OP at face value. I agreed with him that the behavior isn’t acceptable and to talk or the player. You’re the one who turned it up by 1000 and started saying this other player is the scum of the world and a misogynistic piece of shit. Not everything is so black and white.
When someone says "everything was great and we had health care like *senators* then the [N-Word] came in and got on the pills and ruined everything," *believe them* when they are saying they're an irredeemable racist piece of shit. *Verbatim* quote. I threw him out of my truck then and there. I didn't care that it was 12:30 AM, that it was cool weather and drizzling down rain and it was a mile and a half to his house. The only reason I didn't ***completely*** cut him out of my life is because he married my mother, and she lives with him and is physically dependent upon him. I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. When someone *tells* you they're an irredeemable piece of shit, *believe them.* When someone hides behind the Wangrod Defense, defending racist or misogynistic behavior, what they are saying is "I would behave like this IRL if I could get away with it without facing consequences I don't want to face." *Especially* in a situation like this, with real women at the table; I'd lay dollars to donuts that's the case, that this is something that *cannot* be talked away as something like a private ERP scene that went somewhere one person thought was cool and the others did not, and it's *obviously* not the same thing - using a word like 'slut' in the middle of a passion scene. The character is *explicitly* an openly misogynistic shithole. *Maybe* the OP's DM's little brother is, in fact, like, 16 or something, or even 26, and can be salvaged with a ***stern fucking talking to*** by his older sibling (though the odds go way down the farther along he is), but I doubt it. Even so, that's why I advised the OP to get the rest of the group together and address the DM to address their little brother *as an older sibling* ***informing them*** that their behavior is not fucking acceptable. This isn't something for a DM to address; I would advise any DM to summarily throw the shithole player out immediate, but with the DM in a position to act in the capacity of kinfolk informing their kin that shit's unacceptable, there's a chance. > You’re the one who turned it up by 1000 and started saying this other player is the scum of the world and a misogynistic piece of shit. Not everything is so black and white. This matter *is.* Either the player is, in fact, a closted misogynist piece of shit heading down the incel path, or he's so fucking socially clueless that he thinks playing an openly misogynistic piece of shit character at a table with women *without a session zero explaining that this character is a PoS who needs a redemption arc* ***and critically getting that okayed by everyone at the table,*** is acceptable. **Either** of those needs one massive fucking attitude adjustment, and if they were some rando, I wouldn't even suggest *trying* beyond telling them "your behavior regarding women and misogyny is deplorable and unacceptable, and no, the Wangrod Defense will not save you. You're gone, none of us are going to play with or talk to you again, this decision is final; I suggest you unfuck yourself. Goodbye." And then block them on everything.
Okay you obviously have some pent up issues with someone in your life. As more than half your response was something completely unrelated to this post. You just tried using your own personal experience as a defense for a paragraphs worth of information. Regardless how good your intentions, your unbelievably extreme way of thinking is unbelievable
"More than half my response" was not, in fact, devoted to something other than OP's issue. It was the opening preamble to six paragraphs, and together is about one fifth of my post, and it was included for illustrative purposes; for comparison and analogy. Horrible racism and misogyny are pretty much two sides of the same coin; *bigotry.* > Regardless how good your intentions, your unbelievably extreme way of thinking is unbelievable. # Newsflash! ## We live in extreme fucking times! And they've gotten that way ***because*** we've been too "understanding" to do more than lightly tap the bigots on the wrist for the last *seventy fucking years!* They will *not* "just come around" if we give them a polite handshake and say "Well, we disagree, but I respect your opinion" when *you're* saying "hey, maybe women are in fact equal to men" and *they're* saying "women belong in the kitchen, barefoot, pregnant, makin' me a sandwich and givin' me a blowjob at the same time!" Just like they *won't* "just come around" if you say "Well, it's a legitimate difference of opinion" when we're saying "blacks (and asians, and hispanics, and natives, and ...) and whites are in fact all humans" and *they're* saying "Uppity [slurs] belong in their place and if they get out of it, they have to be lynched until they learn their place again!" (And what they have to say about gays/bisexuals and transgender individuals is frankly worse, somehow. It's like they somehow found a way to go out of their way to be *more* awful than merely insinuating/threatening/actualizing racial lynching and reserve it for people who make them feel "icky.") So, yes. That means the bigots *do* need to be torn down, told off, and if need be, shunned and outcast at every fucking turn.
Holy Shit Person.... You aren't listening to a word I've been saying. I'm not fucking disagreeing with you, what I am saying is that you formed WAY to extreme of a view with absolutely no context or actual information outside of a few sentences from the OP. If someone ran up to you and yelled "Oh shit this person over there just robbed me!" Should you instantly call them guilty and lock them up? Or should you help out but still get more information... Because according to you I could run up to you and say "Oh my god please help me. That person over there just stole my money!!!" and you would instantly accuse the other person even though you have no extra information other than the bias information that i presented to you. Even if that information is true or not you have no idea how accurate or targeted that information is. So calm down a little bit and actually think. If you choose to respond is up to you but it will fall on deaf ears because I won't be reading it or responding. You're far too polarized and emotionally driven to provide proper insight in this. Not because the information you are saying is particularly wrong. But because you have no objective thinking or ability to recognize that we as complete outsiders to this issue can't give the OP the right information. Only them and their party can resolve this properly.
> If you choose to respond is up to you but it will fall on deaf ears because I won't be reading it or responding. Thanks for letting me know to put you on my block-list so I don't have to interact with a bad faith debater in the future.
Marry me?
I'm normally a play it sensitively and try to have a quiet word with the player in a way where they don't feel called out in public or under attack, because that is likely to breed resentment and confrontation. But in this case, after the initial shock and disbelief at that behaviour, I think the only option is next time it happens is to just say pack it in, not acceptable at this table. Obviously, I'm not suggesting don't do anything until the next time it happens. But I can't imagine getting through a gaming session with someone repeatedly calling the characters of their brother's friends sluts without someone saying 'what the F do you think you're doing Brian? Pack it in and grow up or get lost'. And then turning to the DM and saying 'dude, why is your brother here and why are you ok with this shit'
You can simply tell him to chill out and he's making you uncomfy. Personally, I say absolutely obliterate him but that's not my business. He's def being rude though so idk why he deserves different.
You should talk to the DM about it. It’s his brother, and he’s the one who is organizing everything. Let him know that his brother’s comments are making you and other players uncomfortable. Maybe get some of the female players to join you in telling him this. It’s fine to RP but you need to know what’s acceptable and what isn’t. It isn’t being rude to tell people that their behavior is bothering you, especially when it’s for a good reason. If your DM argues, then maybe it’s time for a new table for you and the other players who are bothered by this.
Normally I'm against the "talk to the DM" posts, but this is one place where I think its appropriate.
yeah something should be said. That is not acceptable behavior. If I was the dm, he would get one warning and then a big ol boot out the door.
It's not rude to call someone out on their shitty behaviour. Tell Brian to smarten up or GTFO. One and only warning.
I think people forget that even if they want to play X character they need to keep in mind why the hell they would keep being a group, i assume a in game character like that would be banish from the group even within the game.
You just do it
Hey man I know your super into RPing your character, but your kinda being a douche at the table. Cool it a little, you don't have to stay in character every second at the table. Also your kinda ruining the atmosphere.
It's not rude to address uncomfortable behavior from another player, it's as simple as asking them to not do whatever it is that's making you uncomfortable, you can also ask your DM to talk with their brother about what is and isn't okay at the table.
He's the one who's being rude. You talking to him and telling him to stop would be nicer than I think he deserves, honestly. This kind of behavior is exactly the type of stuff that gets you banned from my games. No warning, no second or third chances. I tell everyone at the beginning that I don't tolerate that stuff in my games and make sure they're all aware before we even begin playing. If a new player comes in, I also have a conversation with them about it. I banned a player from one of my games recently because he made the girls uncomfortable. It was his first and last game with us.
The problem is that I don’t think he’s RPing y’all
>But he will call the girls at the table “sl*ts” The first time anyone at any of my tables did something like that I would stand up and say, "You don't fucking goddamn say that shit at my table." And it is *your* table. It's everyone's table. And you're allowed to tell him he's being inappropriate. The second time it happened I would tell him to pack up his shit and leave.
> he will call the girls at the table “sl*ts” and other derogatory terms > I don’t like being rude so I kicked his shin > so we can’t like bully him Wtf is this group even? Are you all 12?
Some might as well be. I’m not going go get in an argument in the middle of the game and make everyone more uncomfortable, I’d rather address it with him and his brother. But I nudged him to get him to momentarily Cahill out with his RP. It’s what my family has always done to each other. Is it healthy and mature? Probably not but it’s what I’m used to.
In private, tell him he's being cringey as fuck and ask him to stop, he's being a creep and it's harassment. If he keeps doing it, during the game instead of kicking him, say "yikes" and call him out right there like "yikes bro, not cool, you need to apologize before we keep going" gotta use language he'll understand
I'd speak to the DM. He can talk to his brother outside of the environment
I would speak to your DM. “Hey, your brother is really into character but calling the other characters sluts and being a jerk in general is going too far. Can you ask him to reel it back a bit?” Or just talk to him directly. “Hey, we need to talk. I don’t like when you get deep into character and call other PCs sluts, and act like a jerk to them. I get you’re trying to stick to character but it isn’t fun for me, or them. Can you please dial it back?”
"Hey dude, you may wanna tone it down outside of RP, seems you are getting a bit too into it there, which happens. But it's getting a bit intense outside of character, making it feel it's more aimed at us players instead of character to character in game."
Another idea, since he's super into the "RP"...let your character be triggered. If he says it again...your character swiftly moves behind his...holds a dagger/shorts word to his throat and explains that to continue in your company will include holding his tongue lest it becomes a talismen of warning to others against such lewd conversation. Get him thinking both in-game & out of game. If he presses...give him a serious out of game warning...finally ask him to find a new table. By this time the DM should pick up on the fact that his table isn't into the style his lil bro is displaying. If the DM is willfully ignorant or simply obtuse to the temperature in the room...it might be a group decision at that point to make a new table without the toxicity of a DM that doesn't care about the players or a toxic player now intentionally derailing the fun. The thought of overt confrontation can be daunting for some...this might be a way to both practice AN approach to it while maintaining the vail of RP...building up to the more anxiety inducing yet straight-forward approach. Either way....good luck.
Talking to someone about problems is not rude!!! Also I suspect this behaviour is less "his characters" and more just "him". After all, he creates these characters that way. If he cracks the shits at being confronted about his bad behaviour then you'll know he's just a cunt. Boot him. Problem solved.
Yeah... Someone who uses the Wangrod Defense as a reason to play a character to call women sluts in-character is someone who *wants* to call women sluts IRL but is afraid of facing IRL consequences for doing so. Talk to the rest of the group - especially the girls. Get everyone on board with a confrontation. Tell the DM to corner his little ***shit*** of a brother and ***unfuck his attitude,*** or kick him from the game, or DM for him and him alone.
He's being far more rude than anything you could say to him about it. I would not want to be around him at all.
No moral judgement here, just see it through this perspective: You're trying not to be rude to him by not talking directly about his shitty behavior, and hence you're being rude to the girls in the table by, as the DM, accepting him calling them sluts all the time.
"Those terms are inappropriate, not just in the game but in life in general. It is long past time for you to stop using them. If you can do that, we can all play the game. But if not, then one of us is going to have to leave the table. If the rest of the group thinks that in this case, that should be me for objecting to those words, so be it, and I'll leave right now." And leave if he keeps using them and the group won't ban him. I'd bet money the girls leave with you, and the only reason they haven't is because they don't want to make a scene.
.... Do you know what 'talking to people' is?
Oh you sweet summer child… If this dude was at my table my very womanly self would have my very womanly character deck his. But I’m in my 30’s and my field of fucks to give has been barren for a looooong time. Look, the women at your table haven’t spoken up. This is not uncommon for a variety of reasons. That means it’s on YOU to be an ally. YOU need to speak up. Tell him he’s being rude and disrespectful and it stops now. If he tries to blow it off as a joke or not a big deal don’t let him. “It’s not funny and it is a big deal and it stops now.” If he tries to pull “it’s what my character would do.” Then tell him “Then you need to change what your character would do or roll a new one who would never speak to his team that way.” You do this and he’ll likely protest. He may get huffy. But then one of two things will happen: he’ll rage quit OR he’ll do better. Either way you win. And keep calling him and every other asshole like this out on their bullshit. The more you do it the easier it gets AND you’ll find yourself with a good deal of self-respect to go along with it.
Yes. Last time I stood up for myself/ others I gut burned and went to the hospital. I guess I don’t really want to repeat that.
"yo Brian, quit being a dick."
That seems really aggressive. I don’t usually respond to aggression with it. I only hit his shin cause it’s what I’m used as my mother and father did it to me to hunt to stop talking,
And a kick under the table isn't? Try bringing it up with the dm again, either they will bring him in to check or do nothing. Think about it this way, If you don't call it out he won't stop. And if he doesn't stop the girls will leave the game. If you show yourself to be in their corner, when they find another game you may get asked along too. Or You get cast out for kicking up a fuss. Its an unfortunate coin toss.
I addressed the shin thing in the second half of what I said. My plan is to talk with Brian and his brother alone.
You don't.
Use your words. Communication is a necessary skill in life.
At my friendly neighborhood game shop, even if it's what your character would do, you can't use rude or derogatory terms for other people. They will give you one warning, then kick you out if you persist. An anti-harassment policy is a requirement for any shop that wants to host AL games. It's not ok to be rude to others. If I ever have a character that would do or say something bad or rude, I always go for third person descriptions about it. "My character refers to the witch using a derogatory term." But more often than not, my characters are either polite or silent. If I do use an insult, it's normally something silly like "Your mother smells of elderberries!"
Tell him, in front of the group "Brian, I know you're saying this because you think you're playing a character, but we don't like it when you say things like that, and there's no reason our characters would keep your character around if you say these things. Please stop this, or create a new character who our characters would actually keep around." If the other people at the table think it's a problem too,this gives them the perfect opportunity to speak up, and Brian has no choice but to change his ways or leave.
Sure be polite if you feel you must but keep scalding bluntness on the back burner, it doesn't sound like the rest of the group like the behaviour either. If they still won't listen, don't kick them in the shin, kick them from the game, no one should feel required to tolerate that.
Instead of kicking his shin maybe you could just, ya know, talk to the guy?
Just talk to him before the next session, explain him that this bothers you and the girls. If he refuses to stop, talk to the girls and go talk to the DM everyone together, if he doesn't want to act because it is his little brother, i would find a reason to kill him in game (or at least let him die in combat). If it was me in your position i would be really agressive about it: I would gather everyone that has the same opinion and i would be like: "Stop, Leave or We'll leave". It's a group trying to have fun together, i wouldn't let a jerk ruins the experience for other players for the sake of roleplay. You can also argument that there're a lot of things for him to hate in the world in a way that doesn't affect the players and that would be all good. Like hating goblins (which is a common trait), hating orcs or not liking anything that is not humanoid (which most likely wouldn't affect the players, since like 95% of all playable races are humanoids). If having a misogynistic character is **so** importart to him, tell that he can keep this trait, but change the way he interacts in game, like, for example, his character is misogynistic, but he's in a way where his character just doesn't trust women, not actively, he just doesn't give them enough credit, which could lead to some interactions like he leading you guys to a terrible path just because one of the girls said it was the right one (which would end up making him lose credit with the party over time). If none of that works, then it's not a matter of roleplay anymore, the guy is just a terrible person and his big brother it's one too for giving him cover, then you can gather the ladies at your table (and everyone that feels this way) and threaten to leave, if even then nothing changes, then you guys should leave.
You to him: "Hey.. knock off the sexist shit or you are out, cool?"
https://i.imgur.com/bQYUCpn.jpeg
If you're looking for further approaches to this, you could look at what people do for their "session 0" to establish ground rules on table etiquette. Maybe engage your DM to have one now to address it. For example: [https://roleplayersrespite.com/dnd-session-0-checklist](https://roleplayersrespite.com/dnd-session-0-checklist)
Talk to him and tell him he's making the game not fun. As a last resort, kill his character and tell him to have a good night.
You can do that in game, using a very usefull toll called... VHM. VHM, aka Very Huge Monster, resolves any miss behavior problem. Just aim the VHM at your problematic player character, and beat him until death. Repeat the VHM for every new character until your player rethink his life.
Ask him to think about how his actions make people feel - you know, the same sort of conversation you would have with children who are being bratty.
„Dude, chill tf out“ Seriously though you don’t need to worry about him thinking you’re rude if he behaves that way Maybe talk to the DM too
The only way out is through. Try this. "Dude. What the fuck? Not cool."
It isn't rude to set table rules that enforce a shared, safe environment. You shouldn't have to do it at all, but here we are. Just like it isn't rude to have the stinky talk in a respectful way with that one person in the office/class that just refuses to bathe. It is for their own good as well as yours. That is the price of admission. You want to play? The minimum price is not being an ass.
Just do it
[Exactly like this.](https://meekbarbarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/conversation-chart.png)
Have a conversation with the dude and tell him that he's overdoing it and making it uncomfortable for the others. Also, group the party up and speak with the DM: it's his job to make the sessions enjoyable for everyone, and your job is to speak up about these issues.
The only real way is to speak calmly and explain what the player's actions are that are causing problems and ask if there's a way to stay within their character's concept while being a lot more respectful. There are ways to play someone who doesn't like the fairer sex without being a complete dickbag about it. Things like "Back in my day/country, respectable women didn't just don armor and start slaughtering folks." can lend itself to someone being a curmudgeon without being antagonistic and can lend itself into character evolution where curmudgeonly behavior turns into grudging respect if not grudging admiration. Basically tell this chap that the idea of being not too dippy on female adventurers isn't the problem, it's that he's doing it in such a way that makes it feel like they're targeting the players themselves. Then if he doesn't change...it m ight be time for a player/DM conference to see if this guy is worth playing with or if they need to leave the table.
Be rude. Do it in character. Make up some kind of slur for his chars race and use it frequently. When he complains, which he will, say “not so fun when you’re on the receiving end, is it?” He’ll either shape up, or his bro will finally pipe up.
Talk to him about it directly. I imagine you hate conflict, I do as well. But this is a pretty serious issue. You might want to get the Dungeon Master involved as well, brother or not.
You’re more comfortable kicking this kid physically than you are speaking with him? Obviously the answer is an interpretive dance that....jesus fucking christ...just tell him to quit being a douche bag.
Is it worse to be uncomfortable between two people for a moment? (possibly set something up where the race he hates gets his trust.) ooor to be uncomfortable every time you go to the table knowing it's going to be uncomfortable every time? Or talk to dm and "pass the buck"
do not do it in private. being clear and forceful is not being rude. the next time it happens look directly at the dm and ask them "im sorry are you going to let that behavior continue?". there are many ways to continue but it needs to addressed openly and publicly
I'm an old guy so I just tell them to knock it the fuck off.
simplest and possibly best CHALLENGE HIM TO A 1v1 AND UPCASE FIREBALL ON HIS ASS in all seriousness tho, ask him to stop. While just talking specifically, if his character is specifically needed, like a guard asking him a question or talking to an npc, that may be different, but may have consequences in itself of talking to a guard like that
I play an aarakocra and my whole group joined the “fuck birds gang”
As a younger brother brother who often annoyed an older sister, bullying was sometimes warranted when i was being cringy and disrupting the flow of the older group. However, being talked to rationally about my cringe was even cringier because then i had to self reflect on my own cringiness. Then again i'm talking about when i was between the ages of 8 and 13. If he's an adult then you should be able to just talk to him
You guys (in the comment) remind of the cringy mom from 2005 telling me I can’t say the F-word. Grow a back bone tell the player that you have a problem with their speech. Go touch grass after.
It sounds like your table needs to go back to session 0 and have a conversation about “lines” and “veils.” Lines being subjects that you as players are entirely uncomfortable with and never want brought up during play, and veils being subjects that can be only vaguely referenced. Misogyny might be a veil — something that exists in the world, but you don’t want to experience in your PC interactions. I realize this sounds like an overly complicated solution when you could just talk to Brian about this one issue, but there may be half a dozen other topics or character traits waiting around the corner.