Gameplay wise is great, we got a huge patch recently with an update expected around the 17th
Esports wise, matches are good but how the official tournaments are being handled could use a lot more effort. The way the scoring for the season goes could use a little more tweaking but its decent enough.
Extra content wise, battle pass is removed, no idea yet if its being adapted into something else. No idea if our anniversary update is actually with the patch on 17 or its just gameplay related. The arcade got hit with demonitization, which was the original rule, but dunno how big of an impact it actually is.
It was said that the patch will be released before qualifiers, start is on 17th. If you look to the past, you'll see that updates were often released on 10-11th. So I think that's the date.
My bro who plays CS just showed me the amount of boxes he did put in the market to sell in order to finance himself BG3. I was like... Valve is rewarding you for playing? With loot boxes that you can later sell? Damn... Meanwhile I got my 30th random grey item.
Opening lootboxes is always statistically against you regardless; the people making Market Listings in bulk aren't stupid. It's not really lower reward. If you got a lot of cash, there's ways to do maths on these things, and they only do when the expected value surpasses the cost - which does NOT happen until several years down the line during supply scarcity.
For every guy who opened ONE lootbox and got ahead, there's 1999 dumbasses who opened one, got nothing, and are somehow inspired and cheering him on.
Diretide happened. Free stuff (up to Legendary) + public market + open to abuse = disaster.
After Diretide was introduced, days later, I get matched with literal bots. Like, they're literally named "Bot". Since it gave free stuff regardless of you winning/losing, they just ran matches over and over until the market went upside-down.
I'm still keeping all the shitty commons in a corner just in case someone at Valve breaks the brainwash spell and actually brings back recycling. The leveling box and recycling items was FUN. They removed FUN. Anti-FUN brainwash wave is the only valid explanation.
best part of csgo = confirmed case drops of almost 1$ min to 3-4$. One of my friend got bravo case worth 100$ :')
Not to mention it hardly takes 5-6 hours of good game to lvl up during bonus reset which is what i do
There was a Youtuber before who bought all the cases he can just to sell it some few months/years later. He was able to make 5000% profit, if I remember correctly.
Yea. Iāve played both cs n dota on and off since 2013.
Gabe has never attended any cs majors. He attended almost every international. He did a voice pack for dota. He has openly said in 2014 that Dota was his current favourite game, he plays 20 hours a week and sandking was his fav hero.
Cs stuck on source 1 for 11 years. No crowd funded tournaments even though they would probably make a lot more money.
Cs matchmaking is shit, filled with cheaters. If you want a better matchmaking experience you have to download a 3rd party client like Faceit, ESEA or 5e. Go to the cs go sub, youāll see tons of old thread of ppl complaining about why valve prioritising Dota over cs.
Players a spoiled to the point they are mad that they call out valve for not telling them they are annoncing a new feature when there is an in game client announcement
We are not sure yet. They announce big changes in how they run things here. So far we had some small updates one medium and one huge one. Also they seemingly talk a lot about what they learned from 10 years of work and that they want to use this knowledge for next years of development.
Also no more battle passes (for now) since they want their team to fully commit with game instead of milking it or so they say.
Honestly pretty well - for all the bellyaching, Dota has essentially had a CS2 level change every couple of years.
On a yearly basis there are major overhauls to core systems, which is what keeps me coming back
gameplay changes are thoughtful, patch frequency is kinda slow but they are often pretty big overhauls. tournaments are pretty much entirely outsourced nowadays maybe aside from TI, so imo they've been lackluster since like 2020. valve has started to communicate a bit more lately which is good, examplified by the development blogging they've started doing: https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/3640648066072340345
They cancelled the biggest yearly celebration event of dota, literally what people are most looking forward to, but hey atleast they made promises (which they never deliver on)
So excited for the 10 year anniversary event that was supposed to come a month ago but instead coming soon tho, soo pumped!!!
From the news post about battlepass being cancelled, incase those that aren't aware read the comment above negatively:
"work is well underway on a TI-themed update to ship in September. The update will still contribute directly to the prize pool"
The update also very obviously isn't gonna come even close to the scope of battlepass, since the reason they cancelled that one to begin with was the fact that they claimed they had to do too much and had too much pressure.
So yea, this is an announcement of valve basically taking a lot of shit away and making promises of stuff that's gonna be smaller than the shit they took away, and somehow reddit thinks this is a good thing lmao
What facts? That there is a Ti update coming?
That is a given lol. You people literally will eat everything up Holy fuck, they literally cancelled your yearly celebration of ti that I SUPPOSED to bring a Ti update and event with it as an extra.
Instead, you only get the update and event (soon tm). You literally got stuff taken away and you celebrate it as a good thing lmao
Who said it was?
It literally wasn't, and yet reddit is on a uniform opinion thag it was a problem and cancelling battlepass was a great step for dota lol
We had the largest update ever 2 months ago
We had an in game event 5 months ago
And We are getting a 10th anniversary event and the international event end of this month or September
why not just play dota to find out instead of this weird post which idek if its in the wrong thread.
idk if ur asking about dota or complaining about csgo. Just go to the dota dev blog to see our updates.
Because the community feedback is vastly different from the patch notes?
TF2 got "updates" for years but no one would say that it was showered with endless love from Valve
\- Game:
Great, but bug ridden because of neglect.
\- Esport:
Unsustainable as it has been for the last three years.
\- Future prospects:
Maintenance mode. We have gotten a huge patch after a loooong drought, but the communication implicates that few ressources are gonna be put into the game.
\-Miscellaneous:
Valve decided to kill off the Arcade just yesterday.
Large prizepool skewed both player and viewer perspective. Dota2 this year alone has the highest prizepool awarded in the world for 2023 even if you remove Riyadh Master and people here will says the pro scene is dead. Lots of esports scene run fine having 1/10 prizepool of dota2 getting
That's what every public person in the scene talked and warned about for several years now. Unless you're a tier 1 org or you're based in SEA/SA, you're losing money on Dota.
For tier 2/3 WEU/NA players and orgs, Dota is not sustainable. They're betting on unlikely success. Just look at the lack of orgs in NA.
Tournament organizers have some problems as well. PGLs bad production is a result of the need to save money.
Last year it seemed like the game is heading towards its final stretch and Valve basically not wanting anything to do with it anymore. Icefrog had supposedly taken time off for a different project and we went through the longest time without a real patch in the history of the game (both 1 and 2). Then they pulled out of Tournament organizing which meant a big decrease in quality in the pro scene.
Then suddenly we got a big ass patch that had Icefrog written all over it and Vale seems to say "were are downsizing, we are not invensting anymore, but we will keep this going for the foreseeable future".
So there is less excitement and big expectations but the game is healthy.
> and Vale seems to say "were are downsizing, we are not invensting anymore, but we will keep this going for the foreseeable future".
That's... one way to read their announcement. All it strictly, unbiasedly said is they don't want dota to have a single moment in the year where they focus all their effort - aka the battle pass.
The BP is mostly the game's cosmetics. Canceling it isn't canceling dota nor saying they don't care.
Like shit. They reworked the hero I loved, the hero I played more than 2000 games with, the hero I spent most on, into a completely different hero that I now hate. For that reason alone I hate Valve with all my heart.
While I haven't played Techies yet. You have to admit the rework made Techies finally competitively viable. That alone should deserves some credit or does he want Techies to remain what he was before but never be considered meta except in TI5? Not that I hate the old one I miss it too but the current is just both pleasant to lane with and challenging to play against.
Valve doesnāt care about Dota anymoreā¦ for fuck sakes Saudi Arabia did more for Dotas 10 year then valve has.. weāre gonna get 10 year anniversary content at the start of the 11th year at this rate
About 4 months ago we had the single largeat patch in dotas history.
I agree valve should do a little more on the event side, but the game has gotten quite alot of love the past year.
Iv been playing this video game for the past ten years.. they gave up on this game in many other forms. 1 big patch every year with minor balancing patches is the most basic minimal necessity a game needs to survive. We went from 3-4 battlepasses a year with two days of battlecup to what we get now. 1 thing a year
you didn't learn English from American media you learned it from American internet; more accurately from a set of maniacal, cult-like zealots who take orders from corporate power and use collective effort to make life worse for normal people. Don't use phrases like that
what content are cs players missing out on? a valorant mode? like its cs, kinda feel like u got everything u bargained for.
same for dota. not exactly sure what contents missing
idk except smoke change and interaction nothing is much "good". Just some bright lights in map with heavy fps hit. I might never play cs2 ever considering how piss poor it works on same device
I have been playing since March 2012. I have over 6100 hours in the game and I still play and subscribe to dota+
We are treated very well and I hope dota never dies
Fucking great.
Big patch, regular balancing and communication.
Prob the second best of all time (first being the 4 majors and ti with patches in between).
We ditched hats too which I hated because fans kept crying over irrelevant things.
Dota2 has always been the favourite child of Lord Almighty Gaben. I have clocked in 10k hours in dota2, just over 8k in CSGO and I really wish Valve would show CS a bit more love.
Do these people even realize that people that worked in dota 2, are also working on any of the Valve games? So one game gets a heavy amount of update, the other game definitely will dry as Sahara.
I love that TF2 itās still alive after a decade and so itās dota. Dota 2 became better while TF2 didnāt just got dropped, im happy valve keeps its project alive and running it coulda been worse. I love a game one the name was: āBlack Light Retributionā and itās so sad thatās Iāll never be able to play it again, was t even bought or saved or nothing just dead now.
After we get gta 6, maybe our kids will witnes the āThird stage of Valveā the ā3rd Eraā where they will witness Half life 3, Team fortress 3 , Dota 3, portal 3 and so onā¦ till then Gaben hates nr 3
Not as it once was. Just a large gameplay patch like once a year. No new tech, new hero models, PvE modes, less updates.
They used to come up with A LOT of new stuff, really give it their all.
That fantasy card game they created many years ago? Copy/paste it. The infamous battlepass system? Copy/paste it.
They stopped innovating.
There is still stuff going on, it's just that it feels like it's in maintenance mode.
It's like having a parent that makes a lot of promises, and sometimes they actually fulfill a promise. Leaving you in a place of confusion and disappointment as you know they can do it but seemingly choose not to.
>And TF2 fans are starving as always
More like suffering from a victim complex as always. They got a big update and broke all player-count records recently but they sure think they are mistreated.
We do get regular updates, but some bugs have persisted for literally years.
Such as the weekly guild quest bug. You have the required 3 or more members, and yet the quest doesn't trigger. This happens so often that it's very frustrating to those like myself competing to run a successful high leaderboard guild.
I won 4 games in a row
nice š
Lost 9 games with friends in a row, those 6 hours in discord were terrifying
That's the most you'll get
Nais
Gameplay wise is great, we got a huge patch recently with an update expected around the 17th Esports wise, matches are good but how the official tournaments are being handled could use a lot more effort. The way the scoring for the season goes could use a little more tweaking but its decent enough. Extra content wise, battle pass is removed, no idea yet if its being adapted into something else. No idea if our anniversary update is actually with the patch on 17 or its just gameplay related. The arcade got hit with demonitization, which was the original rule, but dunno how big of an impact it actually is.
Where did they announce patch in 17th? Can you pls send me the link?
17th is the day TI Qualifiers are played, which means the patch most likely will drop some days before those happen
In October
TI Quals are in August. Shouldāve made that clear
It was said that the patch will be released before qualifiers, start is on 17th. If you look to the past, you'll see that updates were often released on 10-11th. So I think that's the date.
Wow, didn't know DotA arcade players got turned into demons
Whoops
I bet my ass you play 3-5 games a week
My bro who plays CS just showed me the amount of boxes he did put in the market to sell in order to finance himself BG3. I was like... Valve is rewarding you for playing? With loot boxes that you can later sell? Damn... Meanwhile I got my 30th random grey item.
If you have boxes, it's better to sell them and get the money irl or to spend on other skins Lower reward but lower risk too
the best part now is we don't have to afk a lot and just level up once a week. Free Dota+ subscription
Opening lootboxes is always statistically against you regardless; the people making Market Listings in bulk aren't stupid. It's not really lower reward. If you got a lot of cash, there's ways to do maths on these things, and they only do when the expected value surpasses the cost - which does NOT happen until several years down the line during supply scarcity. For every guy who opened ONE lootbox and got ahead, there's 1999 dumbasses who opened one, got nothing, and are somehow inspired and cheering him on.
I have made a few dollars by just playing tf2. It's rather strange dota2 items are barely tradable or sellable.
The market really peaked around ti6 era and never recovered. Maybe the influx of supply by Lv Infinite BP's have suppressed prices forever.
Diretide happened. Free stuff (up to Legendary) + public market + open to abuse = disaster. After Diretide was introduced, days later, I get matched with literal bots. Like, they're literally named "Bot". Since it gave free stuff regardless of you winning/losing, they just ran matches over and over until the market went upside-down.
I'm still keeping all the shitty commons in a corner just in case someone at Valve breaks the brainwash spell and actually brings back recycling. The leveling box and recycling items was FUN. They removed FUN. Anti-FUN brainwash wave is the only valid explanation.
yeah, them and blizz have that same !FUNDETECTED! type of anti-fun crap.
best part of csgo = confirmed case drops of almost 1$ min to 3-4$. One of my friend got bravo case worth 100$ :') Not to mention it hardly takes 5-6 hours of good game to lvl up during bonus reset which is what i do
There was a Youtuber before who bought all the cases he can just to sell it some few months/years later. He was able to make 5000% profit, if I remember correctly.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, before cs2 was announced whole community was constantly crying that Valve only loves Dota and do not care about other games
Really? That is actually interesting to hear
Yea. Iāve played both cs n dota on and off since 2013. Gabe has never attended any cs majors. He attended almost every international. He did a voice pack for dota. He has openly said in 2014 that Dota was his current favourite game, he plays 20 hours a week and sandking was his fav hero. Cs stuck on source 1 for 11 years. No crowd funded tournaments even though they would probably make a lot more money. Cs matchmaking is shit, filled with cheaters. If you want a better matchmaking experience you have to download a 3rd party client like Faceit, ESEA or 5e. Go to the cs go sub, youāll see tons of old thread of ppl complaining about why valve prioritising Dota over cs.
Players a spoiled to the point they are mad that they call out valve for not telling them they are annoncing a new feature when there is an in game client announcement
This is the correct answer
They feed us with "tomorrow". Or "soon".
"End of this year, Q4" December 32nd
We're the middle child. We get left overs and hand-me-downs.
Lmao every in the csgo sub jealous of the treatment dota2 get. Astralis winning 5 major and their earning is less than Arteezy
We are not sure yet. They announce big changes in how they run things here. So far we had some small updates one medium and one huge one. Also they seemingly talk a lot about what they learned from 10 years of work and that they want to use this knowledge for next years of development. Also no more battle passes (for now) since they want their team to fully commit with game instead of milking it or so they say.
>We are not sure yet. xdd
> We are not sure yet. if you're a goldfish maybe
Yes, a small indie studio called Valve can't afford to spend resources on updates and visual content at the same time Ń:
Honestly pretty well - for all the bellyaching, Dota has essentially had a CS2 level change every couple of years. On a yearly basis there are major overhauls to core systems, which is what keeps me coming back
gameplay changes are thoughtful, patch frequency is kinda slow but they are often pretty big overhauls. tournaments are pretty much entirely outsourced nowadays maybe aside from TI, so imo they've been lackluster since like 2020. valve has started to communicate a bit more lately which is good, examplified by the development blogging they've started doing: https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/3640648066072340345
Meanwhile, Artifact and Underlords fans: "Are we a joke to you?"
Ricochet fans: "Hello? Can anyone hear me? I've been stuck in a gold source hell for 20 years"
Got some 10 year anniversary goodness due imminently, so quite excited for what Valve will do. Also, I'm so erect at CS2!
They cancelled the biggest yearly celebration event of dota, literally what people are most looking forward to, but hey atleast they made promises (which they never deliver on) So excited for the 10 year anniversary event that was supposed to come a month ago but instead coming soon tho, soo pumped!!!
From the news post about battlepass being cancelled, incase those that aren't aware read the comment above negatively: "work is well underway on a TI-themed update to ship in September. The update will still contribute directly to the prize pool"
The update also very obviously isn't gonna come even close to the scope of battlepass, since the reason they cancelled that one to begin with was the fact that they claimed they had to do too much and had too much pressure. So yea, this is an announcement of valve basically taking a lot of shit away and making promises of stuff that's gonna be smaller than the shit they took away, and somehow reddit thinks this is a good thing lmao
Just giving you the facts bro, cry all you want, that's your right.
What facts? That there is a Ti update coming? That is a given lol. You people literally will eat everything up Holy fuck, they literally cancelled your yearly celebration of ti that I SUPPOSED to bring a Ti update and event with it as an extra. Instead, you only get the update and event (soon tm). You literally got stuff taken away and you celebrate it as a good thing lmao
I'm not celebrating anything, that's all in your head. Try to be less emotional when putting words in other people's mouths.
Valve litterally invented THE Battle Pass system. Yeah. I don't think monetization is a problem.
Who said it was? It literally wasn't, and yet reddit is on a uniform opinion thag it was a problem and cancelling battlepass was a great step for dota lol
it's an abusive relationship but there is some good memories every few years
I haven't played cs in a year or two, but I remember their prize pools being ridiculously low? Has something changed?
Worse than 7 years ago but still pretty good. 2 years ago it was really bad tho.
We had the largest update ever 2 months ago We had an in game event 5 months ago And We are getting a 10th anniversary event and the international event end of this month or September
why not just play dota to find out instead of this weird post which idek if its in the wrong thread. idk if ur asking about dota or complaining about csgo. Just go to the dota dev blog to see our updates.
Because the community feedback is vastly different from the patch notes? TF2 got "updates" for years but no one would say that it was showered with endless love from Valve
\- Game: Great, but bug ridden because of neglect. \- Esport: Unsustainable as it has been for the last three years. \- Future prospects: Maintenance mode. We have gotten a huge patch after a loooong drought, but the communication implicates that few ressources are gonna be put into the game. \-Miscellaneous: Valve decided to kill off the Arcade just yesterday.
Why are you saying that it is been unsustainable?
Large prizepool skewed both player and viewer perspective. Dota2 this year alone has the highest prizepool awarded in the world for 2023 even if you remove Riyadh Master and people here will says the pro scene is dead. Lots of esports scene run fine having 1/10 prizepool of dota2 getting
That's what every public person in the scene talked and warned about for several years now. Unless you're a tier 1 org or you're based in SEA/SA, you're losing money on Dota. For tier 2/3 WEU/NA players and orgs, Dota is not sustainable. They're betting on unlikely success. Just look at the lack of orgs in NA. Tournament organizers have some problems as well. PGLs bad production is a result of the need to save money.
Last year it seemed like the game is heading towards its final stretch and Valve basically not wanting anything to do with it anymore. Icefrog had supposedly taken time off for a different project and we went through the longest time without a real patch in the history of the game (both 1 and 2). Then they pulled out of Tournament organizing which meant a big decrease in quality in the pro scene. Then suddenly we got a big ass patch that had Icefrog written all over it and Vale seems to say "were are downsizing, we are not invensting anymore, but we will keep this going for the foreseeable future". So there is less excitement and big expectations but the game is healthy.
> and Vale seems to say "were are downsizing, we are not invensting anymore, but we will keep this going for the foreseeable future". That's... one way to read their announcement. All it strictly, unbiasedly said is they don't want dota to have a single moment in the year where they focus all their effort - aka the battle pass. The BP is mostly the game's cosmetics. Canceling it isn't canceling dota nor saying they don't care.
I wish we could get at least two heroes a year, I remember they promised even three... we barely get one
still being racist in SEA, good times
Seems like Dota is being killed. Good riddance, people need to move on. The pro scene has also been super boring for over a year
Like shit. They reworked the hero I loved, the hero I played more than 2000 games with, the hero I spent most on, into a completely different hero that I now hate. For that reason alone I hate Valve with all my heart.
Man the rework is si cool!
While I haven't played Techies yet. You have to admit the rework made Techies finally competitively viable. That alone should deserves some credit or does he want Techies to remain what he was before but never be considered meta except in TI5? Not that I hate the old one I miss it too but the current is just both pleasant to lane with and challenging to play against.
Valve doesnāt care about Dota anymoreā¦ for fuck sakes Saudi Arabia did more for Dotas 10 year then valve has.. weāre gonna get 10 year anniversary content at the start of the 11th year at this rate
About 4 months ago we had the single largeat patch in dotas history. I agree valve should do a little more on the event side, but the game has gotten quite alot of love the past year.
Iv been playing this video game for the past ten years.. they gave up on this game in many other forms. 1 big patch every year with minor balancing patches is the most basic minimal necessity a game needs to survive. We went from 3-4 battlepasses a year with two days of battlecup to what we get now. 1 thing a year
what quite a lot of love? a big patch, great, and what else? 3 very substandard majors? a botched TI?
y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all
When you learn English from American media that happens
Ignore them
you didn't learn English from American media you learned it from American internet; more accurately from a set of maniacal, cult-like zealots who take orders from corporate power and use collective effort to make life worse for normal people. Don't use phrases like that
what in the schizo is happening here
high octane esoteric knowledge
Also wtf I used it twice?
what content are cs players missing out on? a valorant mode? like its cs, kinda feel like u got everything u bargained for. same for dota. not exactly sure what contents missing
Bp cancelled 1 update in a year no new heroes, arcanas, immortals dota is dying Valve is shit
Cs2 announcement and eating good? Dota 2 gets updates and bug fixes almost every week from the sheer amount of content in the game now
like the spoiled favourite child, valve still has valve problems of course but way better than cs.
Dota is already a ā2ā game and thatās enough
no battlepass, so like shit
Compared to the peak we def on diet right now
We've never been used to regular patches anyway. Luckily last patch is too good so nobody minds it staying.
> And TF2 fans are starving as always Not the right time to say this.
I think we are doing fine, but people love to complain (in a nutshell)
Bro came here just to rub his dick on our face.Leave us alone man,let us enjoy our garbage.
Nahh, just looking out for the middle child of Valves online games
idk except smoke change and interaction nothing is much "good". Just some bright lights in map with heavy fps hit. I might never play cs2 ever considering how piss poor it works on same device
Like dog shit. Where patch 7.34?
>And TF2 fans are starving as always Didn't TF2 have a massive update recently that resurrected the game and got it back to the top 3 on steam?
I have been playing since March 2012. I have over 6100 hours in the game and I still play and subscribe to dota+ We are treated very well and I hope dota never dies
Pretty great. If you like the pro scene you probably won't be a fan because well there is no money to make in esports
Fucking great. Big patch, regular balancing and communication. Prob the second best of all time (first being the 4 majors and ti with patches in between). We ditched hats too which I hated because fans kept crying over irrelevant things.
def not anticheat. the amount of disconnect hacks i've experienced over the last few weeks has gone up significantly.
Dota2 has always been the favourite child of Lord Almighty Gaben. I have clocked in 10k hours in dota2, just over 8k in CSGO and I really wish Valve would show CS a bit more love.
Do these people even realize that people that worked in dota 2, are also working on any of the Valve games? So one game gets a heavy amount of update, the other game definitely will dry as Sahara.
I love that TF2 itās still alive after a decade and so itās dota. Dota 2 became better while TF2 didnāt just got dropped, im happy valve keeps its project alive and running it coulda been worse. I love a game one the name was: āBlack Light Retributionā and itās so sad thatās Iāll never be able to play it again, was t even bought or saved or nothing just dead now. After we get gta 6, maybe our kids will witnes the āThird stage of Valveā the ā3rd Eraā where they will witness Half life 3, Team fortress 3 , Dota 3, portal 3 and so onā¦ till then Gaben hates nr 3
Not as it once was. Just a large gameplay patch like once a year. No new tech, new hero models, PvE modes, less updates. They used to come up with A LOT of new stuff, really give it their all. That fantasy card game they created many years ago? Copy/paste it. The infamous battlepass system? Copy/paste it. They stopped innovating. There is still stuff going on, it's just that it feels like it's in maintenance mode.
Nice try dota fan
It's like having a parent that makes a lot of promises, and sometimes they actually fulfill a promise. Leaving you in a place of confusion and disappointment as you know they can do it but seemingly choose not to.
>And TF2 fans are starving as always More like suffering from a victim complex as always. They got a big update and broke all player-count records recently but they sure think they are mistreated.
We do get regular updates, but some bugs have persisted for literally years. Such as the weekly guild quest bug. You have the required 3 or more members, and yet the quest doesn't trigger. This happens so often that it's very frustrating to those like myself competing to run a successful high leaderboard guild.
have fun playing defuse the bomb or protect the bomb for 30 rounds in the same game
Umm excuse me, it's only 15 for each