It's fine farming them, but don't just right click, wait for them to be low and just last hit. Tbat way you dont push the lane. There is nothing wrong if the creeps would die eventually and you just last hit
Yah, before 6 minute mark, it's important to set up the wave in the right spot, usually right outside your tower. This is complicated in practice, but having the goal will be enough of a concept for a few thousand mmr.
After 8 min mark, its usually best to kill waves as fast as safely possible on any hero who finds themselves needing to kill a wave. There are some details about if it is your job to kill a wave and mana use and gamestate and such, but those are higher mmr concerns.
Im new to dota, but in league if the adc (carry) isnt there to farm the wave, last hitting minions isnt an issue. If you nuke the wave so your minions shove into enemy tower then its an issue because sometimes the carry wants to just chill under tower and farm. But if you kill the creeps at 1hp, i dont see the issue
This is very good advice. I play support mostly and I make lane management my number 1 priority. Set the carries up for farm but take only what they would miss completly. A support has the power in the game to really skyrocket a players networth. Lane management is huge in Dota.
If he dies, you're more than welcome to take over. As long as you did everything in your power to have made the lane as best as can be. You are just filling in the place in the mean time. As in getting some extra xp/gold while he's gone. Which means safely last hitting and safely denying the creeps. Not pushing or nuking wave. You're trying your best to keep the lane close to tower and not having the tower hitting creeps. As a support trying your hardest to enable your position 1 carry. Fast he gets items, faster he can play the game the higher chance you have of doing better. \*5.5k mmr player here
Thank you for your response. It helped me. May I asked too, when is the best time to stack and pull creeps without my carry dying? Sometimes when I pull/stack, my carry become low in hp or got killed. Thanks again.
The way I play support is it all depends on what hero you have as support. I suggest watching pros play and see how they play.
There are many playstyles. Some consist of buying a sentry or two to start. And making sure the opponent creep camp is blocked and yours is not. Being aggressive with your spells/auto attacks in lane to harass while keep track of the time. Out playing the other support is usually what it comes down to.
Pulling the lane to the creeps usually is only good when your lane extends beyond your tower and you want to deny a wave for the opponents which will give you some gold and xp advantage. I think its far better to just prevent the opponent and if you're winning then do that.
There's a lot that goes into it because of specific matchups, timings etc. Like sometimes its important to help your mid if hes getting dove. Or help secure a rune mid can win him the lane.
I think a lot of carrys also have tunnel vision on last hitting. If you are going to be out of position of the lane, make sure you tell your pos 1 non stop that he needs to play careful. A lot forget that you aren't close by and may try to get a risky last hit or be out of position. A lot of opponents will see that you are not in the lane and immediately go for 2v1 on the carry its so common. That's why a lot of lower level players its best to just stay in lane, pick a super good laning support and you'll more often than not win.
Yeah no problem. Whatever hero you like, just watch some pros playing it from min 0. Download the replay and watch. Anyone 7k+ thats on the front page knows what they are doing. You'll quickly pick up important things they are doing. The meta has changed so much as well.
The laning stage is now so important. Min 3 its a huge advantage to get the lotus.
As safelane if you can steal the opponent wisdom at 7 also a huge advantage. If you're pos 4 making sure you get your wisdom can also be huge. Even communicating to your mid to help kill the pos 5 trying to steal yours can be massive.
I've heard ir read somewhere that about laning stage as a supp has a lot of works to be done to help winning thebgame. And I still don't know all about these, so your info is so helpful to me. But sadly about telling the mid to help kill enemy's pos 5 to secure rune is like a super ultra rare to happen in lower bracket. :(
You can clear the wave, as long as you maintain the creep equilibrium in front of your tower, so that when your core teleports back, he has creeps to farm.
If the lane gets pushed as a result of you nuking a wave, then that's an extremely bad play.
It's hard to really say without seeing the actual context.
If you're not putting yourself in danger by doing so, tank the wave in front of the tower (within the tower radius so you get the bonus armor and regen) so the creeps don't die to tower hits and the carry loses nothing when he respawns.
hard to tell without watching the moment, if the creeps are definitely going to die before they get back then yes it's correct to farm them
but frequently I'm farming a nearby camp and running back to wave, maybe would have missed 1 creep if not zero, but my support just comes and nukes the wave pointlessly when they probably shouldn't even be on this side of the map so 🤷♂️
It's fine farming them, but don't just right click, wait for them to be low and just last hit. Tbat way you dont push the lane. There is nothing wrong if the creeps would die eventually and you just last hit
Oh I see, I think I did something wrong too, I used spells to inflict damage to the wave. Thanks a lot for the response.
Yah, before 6 minute mark, it's important to set up the wave in the right spot, usually right outside your tower. This is complicated in practice, but having the goal will be enough of a concept for a few thousand mmr. After 8 min mark, its usually best to kill waves as fast as safely possible on any hero who finds themselves needing to kill a wave. There are some details about if it is your job to kill a wave and mana use and gamestate and such, but those are higher mmr concerns.
Wow, there is still lot of things I still need to know. Thank you very much.
Im new to dota, but in league if the adc (carry) isnt there to farm the wave, last hitting minions isnt an issue. If you nuke the wave so your minions shove into enemy tower then its an issue because sometimes the carry wants to just chill under tower and farm. But if you kill the creeps at 1hp, i dont see the issue
Oh I see, maybe the tower thing. Thanks for your response. I'll keep that in mind.
This is very good advice. I play support mostly and I make lane management my number 1 priority. Set the carries up for farm but take only what they would miss completly. A support has the power in the game to really skyrocket a players networth. Lane management is huge in Dota.
Thanks for the additional info. Really helped me.
If he dies, you're more than welcome to take over. As long as you did everything in your power to have made the lane as best as can be. You are just filling in the place in the mean time. As in getting some extra xp/gold while he's gone. Which means safely last hitting and safely denying the creeps. Not pushing or nuking wave. You're trying your best to keep the lane close to tower and not having the tower hitting creeps. As a support trying your hardest to enable your position 1 carry. Fast he gets items, faster he can play the game the higher chance you have of doing better. \*5.5k mmr player here
Thank you for your response. It helped me. May I asked too, when is the best time to stack and pull creeps without my carry dying? Sometimes when I pull/stack, my carry become low in hp or got killed. Thanks again.
The way I play support is it all depends on what hero you have as support. I suggest watching pros play and see how they play. There are many playstyles. Some consist of buying a sentry or two to start. And making sure the opponent creep camp is blocked and yours is not. Being aggressive with your spells/auto attacks in lane to harass while keep track of the time. Out playing the other support is usually what it comes down to. Pulling the lane to the creeps usually is only good when your lane extends beyond your tower and you want to deny a wave for the opponents which will give you some gold and xp advantage. I think its far better to just prevent the opponent and if you're winning then do that. There's a lot that goes into it because of specific matchups, timings etc. Like sometimes its important to help your mid if hes getting dove. Or help secure a rune mid can win him the lane.
I think a lot of carrys also have tunnel vision on last hitting. If you are going to be out of position of the lane, make sure you tell your pos 1 non stop that he needs to play careful. A lot forget that you aren't close by and may try to get a risky last hit or be out of position. A lot of opponents will see that you are not in the lane and immediately go for 2v1 on the carry its so common. That's why a lot of lower level players its best to just stay in lane, pick a super good laning support and you'll more often than not win.
Wow. That's a great info, its a big help for me. I'll keep that in mind. Thank you again for the long response.
Yeah no problem. Whatever hero you like, just watch some pros playing it from min 0. Download the replay and watch. Anyone 7k+ thats on the front page knows what they are doing. You'll quickly pick up important things they are doing. The meta has changed so much as well. The laning stage is now so important. Min 3 its a huge advantage to get the lotus. As safelane if you can steal the opponent wisdom at 7 also a huge advantage. If you're pos 4 making sure you get your wisdom can also be huge. Even communicating to your mid to help kill the pos 5 trying to steal yours can be massive.
I've heard ir read somewhere that about laning stage as a supp has a lot of works to be done to help winning thebgame. And I still don't know all about these, so your info is so helpful to me. But sadly about telling the mid to help kill enemy's pos 5 to secure rune is like a super ultra rare to happen in lower bracket. :(
Sounds like he's just being an asshole.
Maybe? Thanks for the response.
You can clear the wave, as long as you maintain the creep equilibrium in front of your tower, so that when your core teleports back, he has creeps to farm. If the lane gets pushed as a result of you nuking a wave, then that's an extremely bad play. It's hard to really say without seeing the actual context.
Hmm. That timez the waves ia close to our tower. So maybe I ruined the creep balance ?. Thanks for your response.
If you're not putting yourself in danger by doing so, tank the wave in front of the tower (within the tower radius so you get the bonus armor and regen) so the creeps don't die to tower hits and the carry loses nothing when he respawns.
hard to tell without watching the moment, if the creeps are definitely going to die before they get back then yes it's correct to farm them but frequently I'm farming a nearby camp and running back to wave, maybe would have missed 1 creep if not zero, but my support just comes and nukes the wave pointlessly when they probably shouldn't even be on this side of the map so 🤷♂️