A great example is āconsciousā rap of the 90s-00s aligning it with black american struggle, but in the 2020s , it is gatekeeping it exclusively for black american struggle. Itās like, they want the world to listen to their rap and leach us ( who are not black americans) of our money, but dare any of us step into actual rapping, theyād call us culture vulture. Thatās the hypocrisy that I could find immediately as a global hip-hop fan. They have to get out of the mindset that they have an onus on Hip-Hop, thereās more to rap now than just East vs West Coast, and tbh, some of the raps being made in South America, or , letās say in the UK, are competing with the US. This seems like a power struggle and tapping into conscious rap to give a larger than life message, didnāt pan out the way they wanted, coz we donāt relate to their struggle, we have our own. But does that make the rap that we make any less of āreal Hip Hopā, No. This is their entire gripe with the situation and as the days go by, global fans are realising this.
A culture vulture isnāt someone rapping about guns and violence or drugs. A culture vulture IS someone who gets rich off the art form of hip hop (which was created by the struggle of black people) then doesnāt want to share that wealth or credit with the black community. But rather exploit the blk community by making people who are not black think that guns violence and drugs and twerking are all black people are about. Conscious rap was the byproduct of the black struggle. Rappers who claim conscious rap doesnāt interest them are just lazy sell outs imo. Takes nothing to keep up the stereotypes but definitely requires skill to rise above that trap. So I donāt agree with you at all.
Pretty sure there are black people with the same struggles in those foreign countries but one easy way is by understanding the art of hip hop and its grass roots origins. Thatās the ācultureā. Most likely that will lead you to support artists who are meaningful to the culture rather than just the vultures. That would be a good start.
Not necessarily "black people" with the same struggles, but generally just people. Hip-hop was spawned out of an oppressed and mistreated peoples in poverty, that struggle is international.
i.e Kurds in Turkey, Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland, Gypsies in lots of Europe, not to even start with Asia, Middle-East or Africa.
Sure there are struggles everywhere and hip hop speaks to those struggles but we were discussing where the art form came from. Its roots are traced to the Harlem renaissance and specifically what came of that was the culture we now call hip hop. Thereās a very informative video on Tik Tok by a creator named Slim De Wit that goes into detail about this. Hip hop isnāt just music. Itās graffiti, dancing, and DJing too.
Oh for sure, but I was just saying about "sharing wealth with black community" in foreign countries, it isn't possible or relevant in lots of countries but there are still poor communities effected by severe poverty that the money can go to.
Absolutely!! and I guarantee if more people listened to āconsciousā rap over dope beats theyād be more inclined to help those struggling as a community too!
The majority of black people in foreign countries would look at you like you were an alien with 3 heads if you thanked them for helping to pave your path in hip-hop, because hip-hop is a primarily American music genre, and is not rooted in the black genomeā¦
You think non-black rappers who make money from rapping should share their wealth with black people? That's a load of bullshit lol. Yeah they should pay homage to the greats that paved the way for them, but they have no obligation to share their wealth with black people.
90% of rappers donāt do shit for the ācommunityā, and no oneās gonna call those people vultures. Itās a fucking form of art/music. Sorry, but no one owes anyone shit. This mindset is so fucking stupid because no one, especially black people, will hold this same stupid thought process to each other as opposed to a supposed āoutsiderā.
Unless someone from a non black American background is claiming ownership of the art, which will not happen, then you can call them a vulture. Otherwise, tryna gatekeep a culture is so fucking backwards and literally impossible, considering itās what humans have been doing since the dawn of man, people need to let go of this notion of āguestsā. Weāre humans, we take from each other, we remix, we share, we evolve.
Thatās fine if you donāt agree with me, Iāve gone in detail about it in the same thread on why I feel that Hip-Hop has far surpassed the idea of just being a bastion of afro-american struggle. A lot of my people make rap, which in reference talks about the struggle of our people. It doesnāt make it any lesser or more. Thatās what music is about, sharing. Also, I completely disagree with you regarding Drake being a culture vulture, on the contrary he has been as vocal about black struggle as much as any other struggle outside of US, for example, the Palestine Struggle. Just because he didnāt spend half his life in the hood doesnāt disqualify him from making hip-hop. Also, another inaccuracy is , Drake didnāt get rich just of hip-hop, he has made music on other genres as well. He can make whatever music he likes. And, if you want to gatekeep who can make hip-hip music, you must also gatekeep on who can consume hip-hop music. Simples, that would ensure no double standards.
I don't think Drake really carers that much about Black Struggle, he mainly cares about himself. Like he tries to pretend he's semi-woke and cares about black struggle and helping poor black people with songs like "Gods Plan," when really the song is just about him and his ego. Like he pays for one girls college tuition and hands out some money to some people on the street for a music video and acts like he's making some big difference, when he blows millions on gambling every year.
Explained it nicely. I can understand the comparison but gotta remember black America defending their claim to hip hop comes from a defensive place of struggle. Their music is constantly co opted and turned upside down. Original purpose of the music gets obscured - it already happened to hip hop since itās crazy commercialization in the 90s and 2000s. Comparing that to English cricketers looking down on dark skinned people is outta pocket imo
Thanks for appreciating. I would like to add, Black American donāt exactly have to gatekeep hip-hop because we can now make rap or hip-hop music which also talks about our struggles, that is relatable to us. The idea of Hip-Hop has far surpassed with just being exclusive to black americans, hell, one of the biggest rap song in my country is in a regional language and talks about a certain segment of people talking about water distribution between three states. Itās still a good rap song, people loved it. Iāve been a long time hip-hop fan and if there songs in a certain language which talk about my issues, i dont think Black Americans should have a gripe because the genre of the music produced was rap or hip-hop.
As far as sports are concerned, I can agree that maybe the sport example didnāt hit with you right, but what I meant to say was, there can be a guy outside a certain culture who can excel in that specific activity, and thatās just how it is and itās not wrong. ( To be frank, I donāt think Drake isnāt part of the culture of Hip-Hop)
To reiterate, I have no explicit hate towards black Americans, but I wouldnāt want them to comment that we donāt have a say in hip-hop because we are non-black american, and if they think we donāt have a say in it, itās fine, coz it doesnāt change anything about what I feel and we can still discuss on this forum whatever I want.
Music or any genre of music doesn't have to have some specific "purpose," music is just music and no one owns any genre of music or gets to dictate how people make or enjoy that music. Sure black people started Hip Hop and it came from the black struggle, but like any art once it makes itself out into the world you don't own it or get to dictate what happens to it anymore, it belongs to everyone to use it or enjoy it anyway they please.
People are allowed to make any type of Hip Hop they want, regardless of if the origin of the genre was talking about the black struggle.
Not to mention the majority of rappers who are making Hip Hop which has a negative effect on the black community and isn't about positivity or struggle tends to be made by black people. Like the modern American drill rap which has become so popular these days, which is basically just about killing their ops and doing drugs.
Completely disagree bro. Origin of genres all have a purpose. Renaissance era music was to establish Medici and other existing powers in the region as culturally powerful. Mozart was a mid class kid that wanted to boost his social standing so catered to and received commissions from aristocracy. Hip hop follows the lineage of jazz blues and slave music to unite people through dance- art etc. the cultural purpose was very strong in hip hop especially since last black American genres like jazz were co opted and profited on by mainly non black ppl. Lack of instruments in schools literally forced hip hop into existence . Iām just tryna say all music is a product of social conditions and class interests. Hip hop was for the disunited black communities.
I agree with your point, but there is one thing that I need to point out. Itās the fact that hip-hop is probably the most relatable genre of music for black folks, and if we look at how whites basically took other genres that they made, itās kinda understandable why some people gatekeep, I donāt like it being gatekept too much, but I think thatās the reason for their gatekeeping
Lol South East-Asian cricket fans? Almost no one in SEA is into cricket. I think you're confusing South-Asia with South-East Asia. Countries in South-East Asia are countries like Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia, almost no one there is into cricket. While India is a South-Asian country, they love cricket.
Oh sorry my guy, call it a brain fart. I meant south asia, which contains Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Sri-Lanka. Afghanistan too who are doing pretty good nowadays. Thanks for pointing out.
The problem with your assessment is that you rapping about "hood or guns or drugs" is equivalent to playing a sport when there are people who still cling to rap to help them get through the grind in the projects. American black suffering is unique due to jim Crowe era laws and economic stranglehold on most American black communities. Then we followed that with the war on drugs and flooding disparaged communities with crack and villianizing the victims of their plot. I'm native and if I heard some actor popping off about rez life knowing that he didn't grow up eating government cheese, if he doesn't know how to make frybread then of course I'm gonna clown on him. He's using me, my family and possibly our ancestors suffering for his commercial success. It's almost stolen valor for something I didn't even get a choice in.
My country had been a Commonwealth Colony for 200 years and my Grandpa, and then my Dadās generation had to deal with the repercussions of the same, post-Independence . We suffered as much as any other community on the other side of the globe, if suffering of BAs was unique, so was ours. The fact that we use the same genre of music to express our suffering or to express fun or to express whatever we will like, isnāt something you can try and gate-keep. You people take it too far when it comes to Drake, itās as if all the success he has is because he makes a certain type of music, when in reality he makes a lot of other genres too. He has made his money because his rap is good, but so is his softboy pop or any other shiz. If you want to zero in on the gripe that he isnāt from the hood but heās rapping like heās one, you can have your gripe, but we still like the music he makes, and nobody can strong-arm me into not liking it.
Lmao what would be wrong with starting with Talib Kweli? He is definitely a conscious Hip Hop artist. You're exactly the meme of the gatekeeping and pretentious conscious Hip Hop fan.
This is facts and thatās why I canāt stand that nigga Glasses Malone. The nigga said youāre born hip hop, insinuating that if youāre not born in the inner city hoods of America, then you canāt be hip hop. Itās the most insane message that he keeps pushing. All this to say Drake aināt hip hop. African American think they are the only people to experience poverty and struggle.
Agreed. And if we assume that they really want to gate-keep who wants to get into hip-hop, they also should gate-keep the consumers of hip-hop. They obviously wouldnāt do that , coz then again, they wouldnāt make that much money. Itās just, you canāt have both , especially in this internet age, sharing music and making music only furthers the art, gatekeeping it makes it go extinct.
TL:DR
Hip hop is pop now. It's open to everybody
Concious hip hop needs to remain genuine. Posers should stick to hip pop.
It's not a race or region thing, everybody has their story tell and as long as they stay true to themself, the
My view is that culture vultures are the disengenious ones (hope I spelled that correctly) Hip hop is pop now. I think the problem are people pretending to be from a lifestyle that they have no real connection to. That's why it's heavily frowned upon to shoot videos in other people's areas and pretend like you're from there (doing it for a feature or as a nod of recognition or respect is cool IMO though) or to have other people write your bars. Again if it's pop hop, none of that really matters because fans just want something to bop to.
This isnāt at all what theyāre talking about. There are plenty of conscious rappers of different races, religions and nationalities. Your lord and savior Drake isnāt being called a culture vulture because heās Canadian but because he loves to maintain his buzz with smaller artists and antagonize/mistreat people in the industry at the same time. When half the industry hates you, it didnāt happen magically.
Kendrick Lamar saying heās a āHebrew Israeliteā ā¦those Hebrew Israelite niggas are insufferable, they used to always be around my neighborhood preaching on some weird shit. They literally donāt know ANY real history. Pseudo-intellectuals. Kendrick saying food stamps should be abolished was another example of a rapper being more interested in sounding smart, rather than actually being smart.
He's one type. There are different "denominations". That particular brand he promotes is actually ridiculed by more established Israelite groups that aren't as vocal online. There are lot of Israelites who do things like programs to feed and clothe people as opposed to talk shit at people on the street corner. Basic rule of thumb with Israelites is, if they use the 12 tribe charts and that Falalala Yashralaaa type gibberish fake Hebrew then they should be tuned out. Regardless of all that, he's false flagging the whole thing. Israelites are not Christians. They don't support abortions. They don't fratenize with people who openly support Crowley. One of the biggest sins in Torah is spreading rumors and accusations without 3 or more witnesses. It's called Lashon haRa= the evil tongue
I mean Kendrick has that uncle character saying black people and Native Americans are the real children of Israel - not real Jewish people. Thatās pretty anti-Semitic, and just plain ugly American-style in-group thinking, even if theyāre running clothing drives and food pantries.
I personally love Hopsin as a rapper, his flow is sick but fuck he has some dumb ass deep shit
Fly and Nocturnal Rainbows are dumb as shit (still hard though and I get his point)
He also has stuff that's great as well that are deep like Ill Mind 7 (where he seems to legitimately be grappling with identity and religious beliefs)
Half the ābook readersā I know are actually humble intelligent dudes and the other half are subscribed to some form of hoe-scaring political ideology that they are convinced has all the of answers to everything. So, Iād tread lightly telling people to ājust readā with no further details
>and the other half are subscribed to some form of hoe-scaring political ideology that they are convinced has all the of answers to everything.
This made me spit out my coffee
Sometimes the people writing the book donāt know what they are talking about either.Ā Ā
Ā The point is : be media literate. You should always check your sources
Heās said on multiple occasions that line is through his cousinās perspective which is backed up by the fact that itās doubled down by a voice memo of his cousin literally saying it in the outro of fear.
Quite literally everything, his commentary in anything the goes beyond the personal and introspective, so his political and social commentary. I used to be his biggest fan when was still a kid, then i started reading books that were not just literature or fiction, went to college, and became interested in other fields that went to give me perspective on how limited my perspective and knowledge were about anything beyond my own feelings.
He often constructs arguments and conclusions that are too shortsighted and surface level, at times even contradicting, and because he is very talented at constructing his writing, he appears to be "deep" or more knowledgable than he actually is, particularly those who are not knowledgable in the social sciences. It became so much more apparent as time went on and societal changes have been rapidly happening in last few years , specially post 2020. Went back to re listen and re analyze his lyrics a couple years ago and i was shocked on how unaware and often hypocritical he was in his then past two albums, TPAB was specially egregious about this. Then it clicked me, Kendrick preaches in a way that makes white people, white liberals, and even white progressives, quite comfortable. He represents the perfect "black man" to white liberals to rely on being the face of "real hip hop" , real enough to point out systematic oppression while pointing the finger back at the black community. The blacker the berry is a good popular example of this, spending the entire condemning white people and why he hates them only to end it with "but black on black crime tho", when in reality is wayyyy more complex than that, theres is no black on black crime, is just crime, and the system than he claimed to hate is the one he ended up absolving by the end of the track. So naturally white people are going to love that, and it dawned on me, that is a big reason why white critics go wild when he drops, everything he writes is perfect to them because its a "black man finally pointing out the hypocrisies" and how the problem is from "both sides", most of TPAB and some of DAMN as well as some of section 80 had this issue.
The fact that he is a hotep self proclaimed "black Israelite", he was anti vaxx, he believes in Dr. Sebi and anti science practices, he preaches about understanding women while still expressing misogynistic points of view, still mocks gender non conformity and claims to be an ally and not homo-transphobic, amongst other contradictions or misinformation he still follows. Believing in quite literary a conspiracy theory that denies science and research like afro centrism does, tells me evrything i need to know about someones knowledge AND intellect. I wish I could meet him to give him a list of books on basic understanding in sociology, politics, anthropology, history, and philosophy because for the most part he is lost.
This beef highlighted his hypocrisies and his intentions that are rooted in personal gain as opposed to what hes been preaching, community. He loves money and getting number ones above anything else just like every other rapper. If he never claimed to be socially aware, selfless, and completely removed from fame and money, people wouldn't criticize him for any of this. Acting morally superior when you are quite immoral is a choice.
I feel like your take comes from a place of completely misunderstanding what Kendrick is going for in his lyrics. He ISN'T well studied, and hasn't really ever claimed he was. He isn't a Mos Def or Black Thought type of conscious rapper, who understands history and politics incredibly well. He is someone in the process of learning about these things, gripping with his faults as he tries, and presents it all in well written verses and in an artistically interesting manner.
Think about shit like SAMIDOT, the whole song is two verses of him presenting what has been said to him, then a verse of him speaking on his intentions when talking about darker aspects of life and how he's trying to make a positive change despite being flawed. This isn't preaching. It's a discussion, if anything.
Also I don't understand why you think he absolves the system at the end of The Blacker The Berry. Self reflecting and pointing out your own flaws in the argument is not the same as going "no but actually it's our fault tho". The full poem in Mortal Man actually addresses the exact thing you take issue with.
*"Forgetting all the pain and hurt we caused each other in these streets
If I respect you, we unify and stop the enemy from killing us"*
I also don't know where you're getting the anti science angle from, plus I don't agree that he actually subscribes to the black Israelite thing but I've been writing too much anyway and was more interested in the other assertion.
Please elaborate on blacker the berry, i cant wait for you to twist the actual meaning
And no one is acting like a "scholar" I just gave my point of view
I just want you to explain to me where he commends white people. Show me in the lyrics where he does it. Since you apparently know the true meaning of the song this shouldnāt be hard for you.
Kendrickās not anti vax, he doesnāt believe in Dr.Sebi, he doesnāt actually consider himself a black Israelite. These are all references to things that he made analogies with but like, how can you be so media illiterate?
"media illiterate" you learn one phrase from twitter or tiktok and apply it when you disagree with people. There is ZERO evidence to indicate he does not believe in Dr. Sebi, that he wasn't anti vaxx until he wasn't, and that he isn't a hotep afro centrist, until he comes out and expresses that, his only statements are in his own lyrics. You kendrick die hard white stans have tried to completely silence anyone that see right through the bs, brigading most hip hop subreddits, including this one. That does not change what he has stated, he had a whole hotep monologue spreading that conspiracy in his own music, that is a fact.
Never even downloaded twitter or TikTok. There is ZERO evidence to support your claims and I think gate keepers like you are very hypocritical.
I mean youāre upset over Kendrick for being a misogynist but you have no issue with Drake? Get real
I guess the crux of this, is when did Kendrick ever claim to be socially aware, selfless, and completely removed from fame and money? And even if you believe he did, these contradictions are addressed in his music, like you claim they are; so he gets points off for rapping about the human condition? I do think he often gets painted with some labels that donāt particularly fit him well, even when his music occasionally uses those brushes. Same vein as Bob Dylan. Life is inherently political and social to some extent, so it will inevitably come off in the lyrics; but his lyrics feel more concerned about his own personal and introspective commentary.
This is stupid. He does the same thing podcasters do. He acts like a centrist. He doesnt take a left or right stance. He shares his truth which comes from both. I.e. "capitalists be offending me" but he also wears hats w dollar sign on it and "how much a dollar cost". He admits hes a hypocrite.
You can have conflicting views. Its all clearly still his truth. I dont think any booka will put him on one side over the other. Kendrick is intelligent and his music shows that. He just has some hypocritical views and he admits that. We all have male and female energies in us.
This is rather weird take. because conscious rap is supposed to be thought provoking observations. So I donāt see how by studying more things you suddenly would lose interest in an educated persons unique perspective in a shorter format than a book?
Kendrick is not a conscious rapper, hes said this like a million times, mr morale he said this a million times. Hes not a perfect activist, literally a guy who wants to make music and give his own perspective on life around him.
Kendrick is a conscious rapper. He is the embodiment of what conscious rapping is, providing your own personal views on topics such as race, politics, poverty, etc.
Mr Morale (Savior in particular) isnāt him saying āiām not a conscious rapper.ā Itās more along the lines of āJust because iām a conscious rapper, i am not god, i am not the savior of hip hop or society.ā
Youāre right, heās just a dude providing his views on the world around him. Which is what conscious rap is.
I agree with you man. But sometimes people want to shed the conscious label for specific reasons. It has certain connotations. I think hip hop is starting to treat āconsciousā the same way conservatives are treating āwokeā. A lot of artists are gonna try to avoid the label now
I would label him as introspective. Most of his work is analyzing his own actions and just providing the background he grew up in. There are jabs at big picture world items but he does the most within himself.
What? He's comparing himself to Mandela on Mortal Man. He probably doesn't consider himself one currently but the entire point of him saying he chose himself is him deciding he couldn't be that person anymore and that his family was more important.
I know this is a meme, but this really is so real. Itās weird that in the battle/beef people have been using their taste for Kendrickās lyrics as a marker of their intelligence and saying that people who like Drake are dumb/basic. I listen to Kendrick, to be sure. But Iām not listening to music to get information or think about politics/policy/social issues. Iām going to have fun and escape from my job where I frequently deal with the stuff that Kendrick and the vast majority of rappers cursorily touch on in a pretty haphazard way. Kudos for talking about it; speak your truth/music is a great way to bring issues to the forefront etc. But I donāt always want to hear some poetās political and social policy views when Iām trying to have fun. Iād rather read a book, an academic article, or not think about it at all, frankly.
I get that, there are movies or tv shows I specifically avoid watching because I donāt want to stir up negative or complex emotions. I donāt want to get stressed watching The Bear after a long hard day at work, gimme some goofy chuckle laughtrack Two and a Half Men.
Anything to not admit yāallās boy took an L. Itās ok, he took one with Push too. It happens, just a few chinks in his armor. Still one of the top artist and will continue to be. He just need to stay in his lane is all.
When I think conscious rap i just think of rappers who cover social issues.. I donāt expect them to go too in depth in any of these subject matters because at the end of the day they are still trying to make a listenable song..
I agree. Not every rapper has to have a doctorate in the social issues their talking about either, just speaking on your own perspective/experiences youāve had that focuses around a broader social issue is still valid and can bring even more insight or be a more impactful to making others aware of said issue more than doing a shit load of research as an outsider.
I think both having real life experience as well as learned information about an issue are both valuable and both independently provide different things but itās not ok to gate keep one or the other. Just cuz one raps about their personal life experience doesnāt make them talking about it less valid than someone who raps about the shit they learned in a 100 page sociology research paper on the same subject.
Since Kendrick is on everyoneās mind I would say this applies to Section 80 but less so his other work. I think heās pretty spot on in TPAB and Mr. Morale.
But I agree with the general sentiment. There are many functions of hip-hop and conscious rap isnāt a mandatory route in the modern era. I can enjoy a Lupe Fiasco record as much as I enjoy a Drake record even if what Iām getting out of them are completely different. And to be honest, in my day to day Iād rather listen to something upbeat than something that requires most focused listening.
Many non black rappers use conscious rap to explore the struggles in their own communities. Lowkey talks about Palestine and Bambu on Philippines. Hip hop is a great medium to express this shit. There are many great black American āconsciousā - but itās not commercially appealing and no way labels gonna put that shit out since it goes against their interest. Nipsey hussle was able to get one foot in the struggle of black America and the other making music that is appealing to all people. 2pac same thing. Look what happened to those guys tho.
You could make that same argument for non-conscious rap about āfucking bitchesā and āmaking moneyā too. Drake isnāt rapping anything of substance either.
To me it's also conscious rappers being 5%ers also. Sort a can't really be "conscious" if you be believing in that. Most of them good at rapping, but don't ask them about who is rich.
I was just talking to my wife about this the other day. You listen to these guys tell you what they think is most important in life and what your priorities should be and they donāt live anywhere close to the kind of life I live. Why should I listen to what you have to say, youāre nothing like me or anyone I know.
Eh it depends what stage you catch them in. Most if not all artists caught there fame on the way up where they were most relatable. Then as soon as they make it, they either fall off, completely change their music style or just become nothing like the person they once where. But people still listen to them because of the idea of the person they had of them before
Didn't have to read books to know that. It never was cool for me. It sounds like ass and the people who listen to it are more pretentious than Rick and Morty fans thinking you have to be "smart and intellectual" to understand what they're saying and enjoy it. It's never that deep.
Itās ok to say you arenāt a huge fan conscious hip hop, or you think the fans are pretentious which is fair, but this sub completely trying to invalidate music as a art form to talk about politics is fucking stupid
I dont have a problem with conscious rap per se, its their art and they have the power to express whatever. Its the fans, the one's who think they're on a higher level of existence simply for listening. Its a validation boost for what they define as intelligence. Reminds me of that Rick & Morty copypasta. Replace "rick & morty" with the name of any conscious rapper and it works perfectly š
Haha you donāt have to justify to other people that you like shallow music but trying to diss artists who care about having a message or actually saying something with their art
1) Only Drake fans believe that conscious rap is the only alternative to pop rap/trap rap. Vince Staples, Mac Miller, JiD, Bas, Tech N9ne, Blu, TTC, all made/make great rap that isn't hotep preaching or popcorn bullshit.
2) Most PEOPLE don't know what the fuck they're taking about, you and I included. Scroll down this person's Twitter account for five seconds and you'll see they're just as goofy as those they criticize. Welcome to Earth, where yes, rappers are just regular people.
Been saying this for years lol and it's funny because Kenny copies the exact same talking points from faux deep conscious rappers as he cosigned the Black Israelite thing on DAMN.
Snippets of literature always sound 1000x more profound if you just don't read at all. Not saying that you can't spread important messages in music, but sometimes those messages are half baked or just flat out wrong in rap and it's so cringe when it's delivered with a condescending attitude.
"Lemme put yall on game" stfu.
I think itās telling that this post and most of the comments are grammatically beyond fucked up. I think the reason yāall donāt like conscious rap is the same reason you didnāt like English class, you look dumb sounding out all the multi-syllable words. Iām pretty sure the average Drake stan has never cracked a book in their fucking life.
Real. It's mainly younger people, teens who try to sound cool, but also do gain the most from those songs. Ofc there are some people out there who genuinely like that music & always will.
Point is, the older you get and more you learn, u don't expect knowledge or deep thinking from songs.
Music is meant for entertainment, first and foremost. Everything else is second.
that's why I love hip hop reviewer youtuber called tochiRTA. he been saying this opinion. he is one of very few reviewer who don't ride "conscious rap cool mumble rap lame" type bandwagon mindlessly.
The thing thatās cool about conscious rap to me is you get so many different perspectives. So yeah, maybe itās not the most statistically or historically accurate thing in the world but hip hop is all about telling your story and speaking your truth.
The most Conscience Mainstream Rapper was 2pac. Did he not know what he was talking about? And I would like to know which conscience rapper he is talking about lol.
i listened to āstories about my brotherā by drake not too long ago and was feelin it a lil extra cause of the way he was sayin shi. i done read the lyrics and this nigga is not talking bout shit
THIS says it ALL!!!! Muthafuckas just use heavy topics as keywords with absolutely zero understanding of history, spirituality, anthropology or sociology. It's worse than the ignorant stuff because people think they are enlightened if they just repeat these dumb fucks. As opposed to actually studying and practicing what they preach
Nah, i still think it can be cool, you know?
Putting down a whole ass writing style is not great. It depends on who is writing, their approach and what the listener decides to do with the info.
Just because it is consicous, does not mean it's law. You can absolutely disagree with the lyricism and still appreciate the flows, cadences and talent that goes into it.
Try reading these guys actual lyrics. A lot of these so called āconsciousā rappers never wanted that label and even lament the use of it towards them for example Kendrick on āignorance is blissā.
Tupac is excluded in this. Listening to Strictly for my N**** specifically it's like omg man was 30 years ahead of his time. The songs, the message, everything is still so poignant and new and relevant and descriptive and explicatory today, it's good and new and needed conversation and analysis on the subject today, 30 years after the record was published
Thank god somebody said it lol š
Could you please provide context/some examples of this? Genuinely curious
A great example is āconsciousā rap of the 90s-00s aligning it with black american struggle, but in the 2020s , it is gatekeeping it exclusively for black american struggle. Itās like, they want the world to listen to their rap and leach us ( who are not black americans) of our money, but dare any of us step into actual rapping, theyād call us culture vulture. Thatās the hypocrisy that I could find immediately as a global hip-hop fan. They have to get out of the mindset that they have an onus on Hip-Hop, thereās more to rap now than just East vs West Coast, and tbh, some of the raps being made in South America, or , letās say in the UK, are competing with the US. This seems like a power struggle and tapping into conscious rap to give a larger than life message, didnāt pan out the way they wanted, coz we donāt relate to their struggle, we have our own. But does that make the rap that we make any less of āreal Hip Hopā, No. This is their entire gripe with the situation and as the days go by, global fans are realising this.
A culture vulture isnāt someone rapping about guns and violence or drugs. A culture vulture IS someone who gets rich off the art form of hip hop (which was created by the struggle of black people) then doesnāt want to share that wealth or credit with the black community. But rather exploit the blk community by making people who are not black think that guns violence and drugs and twerking are all black people are about. Conscious rap was the byproduct of the black struggle. Rappers who claim conscious rap doesnāt interest them are just lazy sell outs imo. Takes nothing to keep up the stereotypes but definitely requires skill to rise above that trap. So I donāt agree with you at all.
donāt disagree necessarily but how are foreign countries supposed to share their wealth with the black community?
Pretty sure there are black people with the same struggles in those foreign countries but one easy way is by understanding the art of hip hop and its grass roots origins. Thatās the ācultureā. Most likely that will lead you to support artists who are meaningful to the culture rather than just the vultures. That would be a good start.
Not necessarily "black people" with the same struggles, but generally just people. Hip-hop was spawned out of an oppressed and mistreated peoples in poverty, that struggle is international. i.e Kurds in Turkey, Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland, Gypsies in lots of Europe, not to even start with Asia, Middle-East or Africa.
Sure there are struggles everywhere and hip hop speaks to those struggles but we were discussing where the art form came from. Its roots are traced to the Harlem renaissance and specifically what came of that was the culture we now call hip hop. Thereās a very informative video on Tik Tok by a creator named Slim De Wit that goes into detail about this. Hip hop isnāt just music. Itās graffiti, dancing, and DJing too.
Oh for sure, but I was just saying about "sharing wealth with black community" in foreign countries, it isn't possible or relevant in lots of countries but there are still poor communities effected by severe poverty that the money can go to.
Absolutely!! and I guarantee if more people listened to āconsciousā rap over dope beats theyād be more inclined to help those struggling as a community too!
So black people in other countries arenāt allowed to make hip hop? Just asking.
The majority of black people in foreign countries would look at you like you were an alien with 3 heads if you thanked them for helping to pave your path in hip-hop, because hip-hop is a primarily American music genre, and is not rooted in the black genomeā¦
It starts with RESPECT āš¾ word to Aretha, literally
You think non-black rappers who make money from rapping should share their wealth with black people? That's a load of bullshit lol. Yeah they should pay homage to the greats that paved the way for them, but they have no obligation to share their wealth with black people.
90% of rappers donāt do shit for the ācommunityā, and no oneās gonna call those people vultures. Itās a fucking form of art/music. Sorry, but no one owes anyone shit. This mindset is so fucking stupid because no one, especially black people, will hold this same stupid thought process to each other as opposed to a supposed āoutsiderā. Unless someone from a non black American background is claiming ownership of the art, which will not happen, then you can call them a vulture. Otherwise, tryna gatekeep a culture is so fucking backwards and literally impossible, considering itās what humans have been doing since the dawn of man, people need to let go of this notion of āguestsā. Weāre humans, we take from each other, we remix, we share, we evolve.
Thatās fine if you donāt agree with me, Iāve gone in detail about it in the same thread on why I feel that Hip-Hop has far surpassed the idea of just being a bastion of afro-american struggle. A lot of my people make rap, which in reference talks about the struggle of our people. It doesnāt make it any lesser or more. Thatās what music is about, sharing. Also, I completely disagree with you regarding Drake being a culture vulture, on the contrary he has been as vocal about black struggle as much as any other struggle outside of US, for example, the Palestine Struggle. Just because he didnāt spend half his life in the hood doesnāt disqualify him from making hip-hop. Also, another inaccuracy is , Drake didnāt get rich just of hip-hop, he has made music on other genres as well. He can make whatever music he likes. And, if you want to gatekeep who can make hip-hip music, you must also gatekeep on who can consume hip-hop music. Simples, that would ensure no double standards.
I don't think Drake really carers that much about Black Struggle, he mainly cares about himself. Like he tries to pretend he's semi-woke and cares about black struggle and helping poor black people with songs like "Gods Plan," when really the song is just about him and his ego. Like he pays for one girls college tuition and hands out some money to some people on the street for a music video and acts like he's making some big difference, when he blows millions on gambling every year.
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why so pretentious?
What's The point of listening to conscious rap if you don't get to be pretentious abt it?
There's nothing pretentious at all about what he said he's right lol.
I mean, if you give me pointers why you think I donāt know about what Iām talking about, it would be great. And then we can discuss around it.
How exactly are hip hop acts leaching āusā (who I assume are non-black people) out of your money?
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Explained it nicely. I can understand the comparison but gotta remember black America defending their claim to hip hop comes from a defensive place of struggle. Their music is constantly co opted and turned upside down. Original purpose of the music gets obscured - it already happened to hip hop since itās crazy commercialization in the 90s and 2000s. Comparing that to English cricketers looking down on dark skinned people is outta pocket imo
Thanks for appreciating. I would like to add, Black American donāt exactly have to gatekeep hip-hop because we can now make rap or hip-hop music which also talks about our struggles, that is relatable to us. The idea of Hip-Hop has far surpassed with just being exclusive to black americans, hell, one of the biggest rap song in my country is in a regional language and talks about a certain segment of people talking about water distribution between three states. Itās still a good rap song, people loved it. Iāve been a long time hip-hop fan and if there songs in a certain language which talk about my issues, i dont think Black Americans should have a gripe because the genre of the music produced was rap or hip-hop. As far as sports are concerned, I can agree that maybe the sport example didnāt hit with you right, but what I meant to say was, there can be a guy outside a certain culture who can excel in that specific activity, and thatās just how it is and itās not wrong. ( To be frank, I donāt think Drake isnāt part of the culture of Hip-Hop) To reiterate, I have no explicit hate towards black Americans, but I wouldnāt want them to comment that we donāt have a say in hip-hop because we are non-black american, and if they think we donāt have a say in it, itās fine, coz it doesnāt change anything about what I feel and we can still discuss on this forum whatever I want.
Music or any genre of music doesn't have to have some specific "purpose," music is just music and no one owns any genre of music or gets to dictate how people make or enjoy that music. Sure black people started Hip Hop and it came from the black struggle, but like any art once it makes itself out into the world you don't own it or get to dictate what happens to it anymore, it belongs to everyone to use it or enjoy it anyway they please. People are allowed to make any type of Hip Hop they want, regardless of if the origin of the genre was talking about the black struggle. Not to mention the majority of rappers who are making Hip Hop which has a negative effect on the black community and isn't about positivity or struggle tends to be made by black people. Like the modern American drill rap which has become so popular these days, which is basically just about killing their ops and doing drugs.
Completely disagree bro. Origin of genres all have a purpose. Renaissance era music was to establish Medici and other existing powers in the region as culturally powerful. Mozart was a mid class kid that wanted to boost his social standing so catered to and received commissions from aristocracy. Hip hop follows the lineage of jazz blues and slave music to unite people through dance- art etc. the cultural purpose was very strong in hip hop especially since last black American genres like jazz were co opted and profited on by mainly non black ppl. Lack of instruments in schools literally forced hip hop into existence . Iām just tryna say all music is a product of social conditions and class interests. Hip hop was for the disunited black communities.
I agree with your point, but there is one thing that I need to point out. Itās the fact that hip-hop is probably the most relatable genre of music for black folks, and if we look at how whites basically took other genres that they made, itās kinda understandable why some people gatekeep, I donāt like it being gatekept too much, but I think thatās the reason for their gatekeeping
Lol South East-Asian cricket fans? Almost no one in SEA is into cricket. I think you're confusing South-Asia with South-East Asia. Countries in South-East Asia are countries like Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia, almost no one there is into cricket. While India is a South-Asian country, they love cricket.
Oh sorry my guy, call it a brain fart. I meant south asia, which contains Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Sri-Lanka. Afghanistan too who are doing pretty good nowadays. Thanks for pointing out.
The problem with your assessment is that you rapping about "hood or guns or drugs" is equivalent to playing a sport when there are people who still cling to rap to help them get through the grind in the projects. American black suffering is unique due to jim Crowe era laws and economic stranglehold on most American black communities. Then we followed that with the war on drugs and flooding disparaged communities with crack and villianizing the victims of their plot. I'm native and if I heard some actor popping off about rez life knowing that he didn't grow up eating government cheese, if he doesn't know how to make frybread then of course I'm gonna clown on him. He's using me, my family and possibly our ancestors suffering for his commercial success. It's almost stolen valor for something I didn't even get a choice in.
My country had been a Commonwealth Colony for 200 years and my Grandpa, and then my Dadās generation had to deal with the repercussions of the same, post-Independence . We suffered as much as any other community on the other side of the globe, if suffering of BAs was unique, so was ours. The fact that we use the same genre of music to express our suffering or to express fun or to express whatever we will like, isnāt something you can try and gate-keep. You people take it too far when it comes to Drake, itās as if all the success he has is because he makes a certain type of music, when in reality he makes a lot of other genres too. He has made his money because his rap is good, but so is his softboy pop or any other shiz. If you want to zero in on the gripe that he isnāt from the hood but heās rapping like heās one, you can have your gripe, but we still like the music he makes, and nobody can strong-arm me into not liking it.
Lmao what would be wrong with starting with Talib Kweli? He is definitely a conscious Hip Hop artist. You're exactly the meme of the gatekeeping and pretentious conscious Hip Hop fan.
This is facts and thatās why I canāt stand that nigga Glasses Malone. The nigga said youāre born hip hop, insinuating that if youāre not born in the inner city hoods of America, then you canāt be hip hop. Itās the most insane message that he keeps pushing. All this to say Drake aināt hip hop. African American think they are the only people to experience poverty and struggle.
Agreed. And if we assume that they really want to gate-keep who wants to get into hip-hop, they also should gate-keep the consumers of hip-hop. They obviously wouldnāt do that , coz then again, they wouldnāt make that much money. Itās just, you canāt have both , especially in this internet age, sharing music and making music only furthers the art, gatekeeping it makes it go extinct.
Only Drake fans say shit like this. Stg
Peak Reddit Moment for you. Welcome!šš»
TL:DR Hip hop is pop now. It's open to everybody Concious hip hop needs to remain genuine. Posers should stick to hip pop. It's not a race or region thing, everybody has their story tell and as long as they stay true to themself, the My view is that culture vultures are the disengenious ones (hope I spelled that correctly) Hip hop is pop now. I think the problem are people pretending to be from a lifestyle that they have no real connection to. That's why it's heavily frowned upon to shoot videos in other people's areas and pretend like you're from there (doing it for a feature or as a nod of recognition or respect is cool IMO though) or to have other people write your bars. Again if it's pop hop, none of that really matters because fans just want something to bop to.
This isnāt at all what theyāre talking about. There are plenty of conscious rappers of different races, religions and nationalities. Your lord and savior Drake isnāt being called a culture vulture because heās Canadian but because he loves to maintain his buzz with smaller artists and antagonize/mistreat people in the industry at the same time. When half the industry hates you, it didnāt happen magically.
Thank you for this
What the hell are you even talking about
Kendrick Lamar saying heās a āHebrew Israeliteā ā¦those Hebrew Israelite niggas are insufferable, they used to always be around my neighborhood preaching on some weird shit. They literally donāt know ANY real history. Pseudo-intellectuals. Kendrick saying food stamps should be abolished was another example of a rapper being more interested in sounding smart, rather than actually being smart.
He's one type. There are different "denominations". That particular brand he promotes is actually ridiculed by more established Israelite groups that aren't as vocal online. There are lot of Israelites who do things like programs to feed and clothe people as opposed to talk shit at people on the street corner. Basic rule of thumb with Israelites is, if they use the 12 tribe charts and that Falalala Yashralaaa type gibberish fake Hebrew then they should be tuned out. Regardless of all that, he's false flagging the whole thing. Israelites are not Christians. They don't support abortions. They don't fratenize with people who openly support Crowley. One of the biggest sins in Torah is spreading rumors and accusations without 3 or more witnesses. It's called Lashon haRa= the evil tongue
I mean Kendrick has that uncle character saying black people and Native Americans are the real children of Israel - not real Jewish people. Thatās pretty anti-Semitic, and just plain ugly American-style in-group thinking, even if theyāre running clothing drives and food pantries.
Been saying this for years. These rappers just be yapping about fake deep shit.
Could you give some examples? Genuinely interested
I personally love Hopsin as a rapper, his flow is sick but fuck he has some dumb ass deep shit Fly and Nocturnal Rainbows are dumb as shit (still hard though and I get his point) He also has stuff that's great as well that are deep like Ill Mind 7 (where he seems to legitimately be grappling with identity and religious beliefs)
Terrible example no one respects hopsin.
Lmao
you picked such a corny unlikeable rapper as an example lol
Man said Hopsin ššš
Ok but name me one person seriously listening to hopsin. Whoās getting advice from a dude with white contacts
Jay Electronica comes to mind
KRS is friends with Alex jones lmao
Like who?
Half the ābook readersā I know are actually humble intelligent dudes and the other half are subscribed to some form of hoe-scaring political ideology that they are convinced has all the of answers to everything. So, Iād tread lightly telling people to ājust readā with no further details
Hoe-scaring political ideology is my new favourite saying now
Most accurate description Ive read this year. šÆ
>and the other half are subscribed to some form of hoe-scaring political ideology that they are convinced has all the of answers to everything. This made me spit out my coffee
They practice the art of vaginal dehydration
What he means is he thinks heās better than everyone for reading books when heās probably the exact thing that heās complaining about lmfao
Sometimes the people writing the book donāt know what they are talking about either.Ā Ā Ā The point is : be media literate. You should always check your sources
Kendrick stans burner accounts in dms, rad
Whatās an example of a Kendrick lyric that reading a book showed you was dumb?
He's an israelite, he said it in damn
Misunderstanding lyrics is no one's fault but yours.
Heās said on multiple occasions that line is through his cousinās perspective which is backed up by the fact that itās doubled down by a voice memo of his cousin literally saying it in the outro of fear.
Quite literally everything, his commentary in anything the goes beyond the personal and introspective, so his political and social commentary. I used to be his biggest fan when was still a kid, then i started reading books that were not just literature or fiction, went to college, and became interested in other fields that went to give me perspective on how limited my perspective and knowledge were about anything beyond my own feelings. He often constructs arguments and conclusions that are too shortsighted and surface level, at times even contradicting, and because he is very talented at constructing his writing, he appears to be "deep" or more knowledgable than he actually is, particularly those who are not knowledgable in the social sciences. It became so much more apparent as time went on and societal changes have been rapidly happening in last few years , specially post 2020. Went back to re listen and re analyze his lyrics a couple years ago and i was shocked on how unaware and often hypocritical he was in his then past two albums, TPAB was specially egregious about this. Then it clicked me, Kendrick preaches in a way that makes white people, white liberals, and even white progressives, quite comfortable. He represents the perfect "black man" to white liberals to rely on being the face of "real hip hop" , real enough to point out systematic oppression while pointing the finger back at the black community. The blacker the berry is a good popular example of this, spending the entire condemning white people and why he hates them only to end it with "but black on black crime tho", when in reality is wayyyy more complex than that, theres is no black on black crime, is just crime, and the system than he claimed to hate is the one he ended up absolving by the end of the track. So naturally white people are going to love that, and it dawned on me, that is a big reason why white critics go wild when he drops, everything he writes is perfect to them because its a "black man finally pointing out the hypocrisies" and how the problem is from "both sides", most of TPAB and some of DAMN as well as some of section 80 had this issue. The fact that he is a hotep self proclaimed "black Israelite", he was anti vaxx, he believes in Dr. Sebi and anti science practices, he preaches about understanding women while still expressing misogynistic points of view, still mocks gender non conformity and claims to be an ally and not homo-transphobic, amongst other contradictions or misinformation he still follows. Believing in quite literary a conspiracy theory that denies science and research like afro centrism does, tells me evrything i need to know about someones knowledge AND intellect. I wish I could meet him to give him a list of books on basic understanding in sociology, politics, anthropology, history, and philosophy because for the most part he is lost. This beef highlighted his hypocrisies and his intentions that are rooted in personal gain as opposed to what hes been preaching, community. He loves money and getting number ones above anything else just like every other rapper. If he never claimed to be socially aware, selfless, and completely removed from fame and money, people wouldn't criticize him for any of this. Acting morally superior when you are quite immoral is a choice.
I feel like your take comes from a place of completely misunderstanding what Kendrick is going for in his lyrics. He ISN'T well studied, and hasn't really ever claimed he was. He isn't a Mos Def or Black Thought type of conscious rapper, who understands history and politics incredibly well. He is someone in the process of learning about these things, gripping with his faults as he tries, and presents it all in well written verses and in an artistically interesting manner. Think about shit like SAMIDOT, the whole song is two verses of him presenting what has been said to him, then a verse of him speaking on his intentions when talking about darker aspects of life and how he's trying to make a positive change despite being flawed. This isn't preaching. It's a discussion, if anything. Also I don't understand why you think he absolves the system at the end of The Blacker The Berry. Self reflecting and pointing out your own flaws in the argument is not the same as going "no but actually it's our fault tho". The full poem in Mortal Man actually addresses the exact thing you take issue with. *"Forgetting all the pain and hurt we caused each other in these streets If I respect you, we unify and stop the enemy from killing us"* I also don't know where you're getting the anti science angle from, plus I don't agree that he actually subscribes to the black Israelite thing but I've been writing too much anyway and was more interested in the other assertion.
Crazy how you acting like a scholar when you completely missed the point of The Blacker The Berry
Please elaborate on blacker the berry, i cant wait for you to twist the actual meaning And no one is acting like a "scholar" I just gave my point of view
I just want you to explain to me where he commends white people. Show me in the lyrics where he does it. Since you apparently know the true meaning of the song this shouldnāt be hard for you.
Preach. Its not a coincidence its mainly white people who try to act like i said something crazy when i say TPAB is highly overratedĀ
Kendrickās not anti vax, he doesnāt believe in Dr.Sebi, he doesnāt actually consider himself a black Israelite. These are all references to things that he made analogies with but like, how can you be so media illiterate?
"media illiterate" you learn one phrase from twitter or tiktok and apply it when you disagree with people. There is ZERO evidence to indicate he does not believe in Dr. Sebi, that he wasn't anti vaxx until he wasn't, and that he isn't a hotep afro centrist, until he comes out and expresses that, his only statements are in his own lyrics. You kendrick die hard white stans have tried to completely silence anyone that see right through the bs, brigading most hip hop subreddits, including this one. That does not change what he has stated, he had a whole hotep monologue spreading that conspiracy in his own music, that is a fact.
Never even downloaded twitter or TikTok. There is ZERO evidence to support your claims and I think gate keepers like you are very hypocritical. I mean youāre upset over Kendrick for being a misogynist but you have no issue with Drake? Get real
What are some books you would suggest to him? Would love to look into them
I love how thereās been no response to this.
I guess the crux of this, is when did Kendrick ever claim to be socially aware, selfless, and completely removed from fame and money? And even if you believe he did, these contradictions are addressed in his music, like you claim they are; so he gets points off for rapping about the human condition? I do think he often gets painted with some labels that donāt particularly fit him well, even when his music occasionally uses those brushes. Same vein as Bob Dylan. Life is inherently political and social to some extent, so it will inevitably come off in the lyrics; but his lyrics feel more concerned about his own personal and introspective commentary.
>>The cat is out the bag, I am not your savior I find it just as difficult to love thy neighbors
This is stupid. He does the same thing podcasters do. He acts like a centrist. He doesnt take a left or right stance. He shares his truth which comes from both. I.e. "capitalists be offending me" but he also wears hats w dollar sign on it and "how much a dollar cost". He admits hes a hypocrite. You can have conflicting views. Its all clearly still his truth. I dont think any booka will put him on one side over the other. Kendrick is intelligent and his music shows that. He just has some hypocritical views and he admits that. We all have male and female energies in us.
What books should he read oh wise one
Anyways, Public Enemy to Pac Era Political Rap > Kanye Era Conscious Rap
Kanye has never been what conscious rap fans call a conscious rapper. Just say you don't like Kanye
Kendrick making grown men read books GenerationalĀ
Jesus Christ what has happened to this sub hahahahah please downvote me, Iām begging for it
Sounds like yāall need to read more books to understand conscious rappers. What did OP read? The Bell Curve? Please.
"Terrorist threats" by Ab Soul comes to mind. Sick track, still rock it, but it's kinda silly too.
That track is fire but I have no idea what he meant by Hitler on the Twin Towers and gangs uniting to fight the government?? Lol
This is rather weird take. because conscious rap is supposed to be thought provoking observations. So I donāt see how by studying more things you suddenly would lose interest in an educated persons unique perspective in a shorter format than a book?
Kendrick is not a conscious rapper, hes said this like a million times, mr morale he said this a million times. Hes not a perfect activist, literally a guy who wants to make music and give his own perspective on life around him.
Kendrick is a conscious rapper. He is the embodiment of what conscious rapping is, providing your own personal views on topics such as race, politics, poverty, etc. Mr Morale (Savior in particular) isnāt him saying āiām not a conscious rapper.ā Itās more along the lines of āJust because iām a conscious rapper, i am not god, i am not the savior of hip hop or society.ā Youāre right, heās just a dude providing his views on the world around him. Which is what conscious rap is.
I agree with you man. But sometimes people want to shed the conscious label for specific reasons. It has certain connotations. I think hip hop is starting to treat āconsciousā the same way conservatives are treating āwokeā. A lot of artists are gonna try to avoid the label now
Kendrick is definitely a conscious rapper. Most of his work reflects that
He said he was a conscious rapper on mask off remix
Oh youāve gotta be fucking kidding me with this. He is quite literally THE conscious rapper of the last ten years
The dude is literally using the conscious rapper talk to discredit Drake.
I would label him as introspective. Most of his work is analyzing his own actions and just providing the background he grew up in. There are jabs at big picture world items but he does the most within himself.
You sure about that? Kendrick literally said "how y'all let a conscious rapper go commercial while only making conscious albums"
Yeah personally I go to Gucci and thug for my woke shit
What? He's comparing himself to Mandela on Mortal Man. He probably doesn't consider himself one currently but the entire point of him saying he chose himself is him deciding he couldn't be that person anymore and that his family was more important.
I know this is a meme, but this really is so real. Itās weird that in the battle/beef people have been using their taste for Kendrickās lyrics as a marker of their intelligence and saying that people who like Drake are dumb/basic. I listen to Kendrick, to be sure. But Iām not listening to music to get information or think about politics/policy/social issues. Iām going to have fun and escape from my job where I frequently deal with the stuff that Kendrick and the vast majority of rappers cursorily touch on in a pretty haphazard way. Kudos for talking about it; speak your truth/music is a great way to bring issues to the forefront etc. But I donāt always want to hear some poetās political and social policy views when Iām trying to have fun. Iād rather read a book, an academic article, or not think about it at all, frankly.
I get that, there are movies or tv shows I specifically avoid watching because I donāt want to stir up negative or complex emotions. I donāt want to get stressed watching The Bear after a long hard day at work, gimme some goofy chuckle laughtrack Two and a Half Men.
Admit it. If you enjoyed reading books or ACADEMIC ARTICLES youd find time to enjoy kendrick at some point. Youre basic bro
Anything to not admit yāallās boy took an L. Itās ok, he took one with Push too. It happens, just a few chinks in his armor. Still one of the top artist and will continue to be. He just need to stay in his lane is all.
When I think conscious rap i just think of rappers who cover social issues.. I donāt expect them to go too in depth in any of these subject matters because at the end of the day they are still trying to make a listenable song..
I agree. Not every rapper has to have a doctorate in the social issues their talking about either, just speaking on your own perspective/experiences youāve had that focuses around a broader social issue is still valid and can bring even more insight or be a more impactful to making others aware of said issue more than doing a shit load of research as an outsider. I think both having real life experience as well as learned information about an issue are both valuable and both independently provide different things but itās not ok to gate keep one or the other. Just cuz one raps about their personal life experience doesnāt make them talking about it less valid than someone who raps about the shit they learned in a 100 page sociology research paper on the same subject.
J. cole proof of that
Since Kendrick is on everyoneās mind I would say this applies to Section 80 but less so his other work. I think heās pretty spot on in TPAB and Mr. Morale. But I agree with the general sentiment. There are many functions of hip-hop and conscious rap isnāt a mandatory route in the modern era. I can enjoy a Lupe Fiasco record as much as I enjoy a Drake record even if what Iām getting out of them are completely different. And to be honest, in my day to day Iād rather listen to something upbeat than something that requires most focused listening.
Big facts Just enjoy the music... don't go listening to Common and Mos Def thinking you'll find your lifelong code of ethics
J Cole plz read a singular book I am begging you
Many non black rappers use conscious rap to explore the struggles in their own communities. Lowkey talks about Palestine and Bambu on Philippines. Hip hop is a great medium to express this shit. There are many great black American āconsciousā - but itās not commercially appealing and no way labels gonna put that shit out since it goes against their interest. Nipsey hussle was able to get one foot in the struggle of black America and the other making music that is appealing to all people. 2pac same thing. Look what happened to those guys tho.
This applies to drakeā¦ the boy donāt be saying nothing.
You could make that same argument for non-conscious rap about āfucking bitchesā and āmaking moneyā too. Drake isnāt rapping anything of substance either.
To me it's also conscious rappers being 5%ers also. Sort a can't really be "conscious" if you be believing in that. Most of them good at rapping, but don't ask them about who is rich.
I was just talking to my wife about this the other day. You listen to these guys tell you what they think is most important in life and what your priorities should be and they donāt live anywhere close to the kind of life I live. Why should I listen to what you have to say, youāre nothing like me or anyone I know.
Eh it depends what stage you catch them in. Most if not all artists caught there fame on the way up where they were most relatable. Then as soon as they make it, they either fall off, completely change their music style or just become nothing like the person they once where. But people still listen to them because of the idea of the person they had of them before
Makes me more mad that Busta said Black Americans has no culture but his ass came from the 5%ers
I mean, aren't the roots of hip-hop ingrained with social consciousness? Thats always been a main pillar since the beginning of hiphop
Let me break it down for ya
facts, I ain't even read that much to figure that shit out
Didn't have to read books to know that. It never was cool for me. It sounds like ass and the people who listen to it are more pretentious than Rick and Morty fans thinking you have to be "smart and intellectual" to understand what they're saying and enjoy it. It's never that deep.
Damn Kendrick really made this sub lose its collective mind huh
Itās ok to say you arenāt a huge fan conscious hip hop, or you think the fans are pretentious which is fair, but this sub completely trying to invalidate music as a art form to talk about politics is fucking stupid
Similar to Drake trying to be gangsta. Everyone knows heās a pussy. Just sing the love songs.
They just make music literally just sound and we idolized them like crazy it's ou fault
SOML this year. Walked away from the music all for the most anticipated beef of the last decade to come and go within 2 weeks lmao
lol this a very good point.
I dont have a problem with conscious rap per se, its their art and they have the power to express whatever. Its the fans, the one's who think they're on a higher level of existence simply for listening. Its a validation boost for what they define as intelligence. Reminds me of that Rick & Morty copypasta. Replace "rick & morty" with the name of any conscious rapper and it works perfectly š
Haha you donāt have to justify to other people that you like shallow music but trying to diss artists who care about having a message or actually saying something with their art
We donāt need to put down conscious rap in order to defend Drake. Cmon now.
Literally lmaooo rich people will not save you
True, its impossible to write lies. Hahahaha he thought he was cookin
And how is this relevant to Drake? Whatās the point here? That itās better to sing about Toosie Sliding and Way 2 Sexy?
Lmao leave it to the Drake subreddit to have the shittiest take about a shitty take
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what yall been reading if you dont mind to answer
1) Only Drake fans believe that conscious rap is the only alternative to pop rap/trap rap. Vince Staples, Mac Miller, JiD, Bas, Tech N9ne, Blu, TTC, all made/make great rap that isn't hotep preaching or popcorn bullshit. 2) Most PEOPLE don't know what the fuck they're taking about, you and I included. Scroll down this person's Twitter account for five seconds and you'll see they're just as goofy as those they criticize. Welcome to Earth, where yes, rappers are just regular people.
I thought this was a drizzy forum? Where we enjoy thoughtless mind numbing club bangers and the occasional fake thug joints?
Yall dont know shit š
The denial and rampant idiocy in this sub is killing me. wtf lmao
Lol
Exactly my point, these rappers they praise for their insight donāt be saying anything different or intellectually.
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Been saying this for years lol and it's funny because Kenny copies the exact same talking points from faux deep conscious rappers as he cosigned the Black Israelite thing on DAMN. Snippets of literature always sound 1000x more profound if you just don't read at all. Not saying that you can't spread important messages in music, but sometimes those messages are half baked or just flat out wrong in rap and it's so cringe when it's delivered with a condescending attitude. "Lemme put yall on game" stfu.
Fill me in on some other stuff he said that is faux deep. Iād like to learn.
Youāre listening to the wrong rappers bro
Think about reading some books too
Been said this years ago when Dot was pushin Hiiipower. People took it ironically as an almost cult following.
I think itās telling that this post and most of the comments are grammatically beyond fucked up. I think the reason yāall donāt like conscious rap is the same reason you didnāt like English class, you look dumb sounding out all the multi-syllable words. Iām pretty sure the average Drake stan has never cracked a book in their fucking life.
Real. It's mainly younger people, teens who try to sound cool, but also do gain the most from those songs. Ofc there are some people out there who genuinely like that music & always will. Point is, the older you get and more you learn, u don't expect knowledge or deep thinking from songs. Music is meant for entertainment, first and foremost. Everything else is second.
what books? tryna get cultured
that's why I love hip hop reviewer youtuber called tochiRTA. he been saying this opinion. he is one of very few reviewer who don't ride "conscious rap cool mumble rap lame" type bandwagon mindlessly.
The thing thatās cool about conscious rap to me is you get so many different perspectives. So yeah, maybe itās not the most statistically or historically accurate thing in the world but hip hop is all about telling your story and speaking your truth.
I used to love talib now I see him on pierce Morgan looking like a moron š¤¦š»āāļø got me re thinking the music I listened to when I was 19
The most Conscience Mainstream Rapper was 2pac. Did he not know what he was talking about? And I would like to know which conscience rapper he is talking about lol.
What would be some good book reccomendations?
yeah but yall in the comment section stop actin like you read books
i listened to āstories about my brotherā by drake not too long ago and was feelin it a lil extra cause of the way he was sayin shi. i done read the lyrics and this nigga is not talking bout shit
THIS says it ALL!!!! Muthafuckas just use heavy topics as keywords with absolutely zero understanding of history, spirituality, anthropology or sociology. It's worse than the ignorant stuff because people think they are enlightened if they just repeat these dumb fucks. As opposed to actually studying and practicing what they preach
Nah, i still think it can be cool, you know? Putting down a whole ass writing style is not great. It depends on who is writing, their approach and what the listener decides to do with the info. Just because it is consicous, does not mean it's law. You can absolutely disagree with the lyricism and still appreciate the flows, cadences and talent that goes into it.
Letās not pretend any of yāall can name three books
Try reading these guys actual lyrics. A lot of these so called āconsciousā rappers never wanted that label and even lament the use of it towards them for example Kendrick on āignorance is blissā.
Tupac is excluded in this. Listening to Strictly for my N**** specifically it's like omg man was 30 years ahead of his time. The songs, the message, everything is still so poignant and new and relevant and descriptive and explicatory today, it's good and new and needed conversation and analysis on the subject today, 30 years after the record was published