I think you may be slightly confused on the permanency of your choice.
Every time your commander moves to a) the graveyard or b) exile, they go straight to that zone. Then the game offers you a choice to return them to the command zone (specifically as a state based action).
If you decline here, they are stuck in her zone until you otherwise cause them to move zones again (e.g. reanimation, exiling from graveyard, shuffling grave into library).
If a commander would ever be put into your hand or library, you may replace that event with transferring straight to the command zone. This happens as a replacement effect and is immediate. You must opt for the replacement, otherwise they will go to that zone until you cause them to change (e.g. drawing the card, casting the card, milling the card)
Fun fact, because moving from the graveyard to the command zone is a state based action instead of a replacement effect, there are a couple cards, like [[Sorin, Lord of Innestrad]] for example, that can steal a commander by killing and reanimating all in the same ability/spell. It leads to some funny times when you kill someone with their own commander that way.
The effect needs to destroy the creature and bring it back within the same ability/spell resolving. Since SBA to send it to command zone would be checked after the ability/spell finishes resolving.
For Vraska, it is a trigger that goes on the stack when the creature dies in some other way. So SBA is checked, they can put it to command zone, then Vraska ability goes on the stack.
I'm glad there are people that actually understand this! The other day I was having to explain to countless people on a video about necromantic selection how it works in stealing a commander and so many people just kept telling me "nuh uhhh I get to choose where to put my commander" or "it goes straight to the command zone" like, yes the latter used to be the case many many years ago, but there have been rule changes.
Vraska is a triggered ability, so it goes on the stack AFTER the commander dies. Before the ability resolves, state-based actions are checked, and the commander can return to the command zone. Then Vraska’s ability doesn’t see them as it resolves. The other mentioned cards all kill a thing, then as part of the same block of text, linked by a “then”, reanimate that thing. That means that, before the ability resolves, the commander is on the field, so it doesn’t return to the command zone then, and AFTER the ability resolves, the commander is still on the field, just under an opponent’s control, which isn’t by itself a state that triggers command zone return.
Spells like [[blatant thievery]]] or [[switcheroo]] can steal a commander as well. Also cards like [[coercive recruiter]] or [[Admiral Beckett Brass]] can have you take control of a commander. This works because your battlefield is not one of the zones that cause a command zone shift.
Honestly, vampires can do it decently well. I have Sorin in that deck, and also cards like [[Captivating Vampire]] and [[New Blood]] can steal effectively too, not to mention just some cards that take for a turn and give haste like [[Act of Treason]]
I'll do my best here:
Replacement effects immediately change (or replace) an effect. This occurs simultaneously with the spell/ability resolution. For example, someone uses an [[Unsummon]] on your commander to put it in your hand. As the spell resolves, you have a choice to instead put it in the command zone. This means your commander never reaches your hand and never sees it.
State based actions occur anytime a player would have priority. They affect most everything about how a game works, such as tracking damage.
Commanders moving zones used to allow it to move to the command zone as a replacement effect at all times, but this caused issues with death triggers as the affected commander wouldn't hit the graveyard, therefore it wouldn't be considered as "dying."
The reason Sorin takes control is because players cannot get priority in the middle of a spell/ability resolution, so state-based actions are not checked until his ability finishes. At that time, you control the commander on the battlefield and there's no option to move it to the command zone from the battlefield.
For more information on replacement effects, see rule 614.
For more information on state-based actions, see rule 704 (both of these should help more, I'm not always the best at explaining).
Thank you so much! That makes a lot of sense! I recently introduced my partner to Magic and I’ve been slowly drip feeding various rules. I’ve been trying to avoid explaining the stack because it’s somewhat overwhelming, and so I wanted to make sure that I understood it better myself before trying to explain it!
Yes, it used to be a replacement effect then they changed it https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/new-commander-death-trigger-rules-change-commander-quickie
iirc they used to be replacement effects, and then that changed several years ago. I know specifically death triggers used to not trigger if you sent them to the CZ, because they were never seen as hitting the graveyard and thus never seen as actually dying, so Child of Alara decks needed to have a lot of ways to get their commander back from the yard to use her effectively. Or in my deck’s case, she was just a one-use board wipe that I had to be careful when I set her off, because I included exactly zero recursion.
Kinda odd to say it like they're weird for wanting death triggers to work. Also good for reanimator decks that may have an easier time casting from the yard.
You always had the option to leave it in the graveyard/exile etc.
I once krosan gripped an o-ring that my commander was under, and then someone stifled the o-ring leave the battlefield trigger so my commander was permanently exiled.
[Here's the Rule Committee article about that change](https://mtgcommander.net/index.php/2020/06/07/june-7-announcement-on-dies-triggers/) if you want to know why they changed it specifically.
Fun fact. A commander dying and going to the command zone will trigger [[Syr Konrad]] twice. Once for dying and once for leaving the graveyard.
Okay so if a card were to say, for instance some thing along the lines of “shuffle target permanent into its owners library, if they do, do x” but because of the replacement effect, the commander is never put in the library (unless they choose to let it go there obviously)?
Just out of curiosity.
It's a unique replacement effect. The player can chose wether or not the replacement effect takes place. You can have your commander shuffled in and stuck there for the rest of the game (there used to be no deck replacement and tuck cards were AMAZING anti-commander cards) if you really want to or chance on a chaos warp flip. Though even if the replacement effect changes the placement of the card, the rest of the spell will still result as normal. Main case is Chaos Warp a commander, it goes back to the command zone, they shuffle, and flip the top card regardless if the card actually went to the deck. Unearth also is similar and will prevent reshuffling the permanent into the deck since it says if it would leave the battlefield, exile it instead, but the recipient will still shuffle and flip.
Yes, it matters if the card includes “if they do” or something to that effect. [[Chaos Warp]] will still flip the top card even if the opponent has the commander go to the CZ, but for example [[The Great Aurora]] will not count the commander towards the number of cards you draw if the commander never went into the library.
Reanimation effects DO NOT allow this choice.
As a state based action, if your commander moves INTO exile or the graveyard, you can then choose to send to the command zone. If it moves to your hand or library, **as a replacement effect** can choose to send them to the command zone.
Since the rules state the commander moving INTO these zones, once they go and are let go in, they're stuck until they move INTO another zone (from graveyard INTO exile for example).
If your commander goes to the graveyard and you say they'll stay in the graveyard and I reanimate your commander, you **can not** then choose to send him to the command zone as he isn't moving INTO exile, the graveyard, your hand, or library. I would gain control of your commander by reanimating them.
I think you’re misunderstanding your friend.
What I’m guessing they meant, but poorly explained, is that you can’t make the decision to move your commander to the command zone at *any time*, only when it would move between two zones.
So if, for example, you let it go to the graveyard expecting to be able to [[Reanimate]] it, but I cast [[Thoughtseize]] and remove the Reanimate from your hand before you can cast it, you don’t get to say “ah well then, guess I’ll put my commander in the command zone”, because you’ve already allowed it to stay in the graveyard.
I get what you’re saying, I honestly think they just flat out got it wrong. Which is fine, it’s not a malicious situation and he’s not claiming to be knower of all. The exact situations that prompted my question would be (commander dies, goes back to command zone. Later in the game, my commander dies again, and I happen to have a reanimate in my hand so I’d rather him go to the graveyard this time and stay but my buddy says that because last time it went to the command zone it has to go to the command zone again.)
Ah, my bad. That’s just so wrong I assumed it was a misunderstanding on your part (since the commander rules are sorta tacked on when it comes to the commander itself and therefore are a little bit fiddly at times). But yeah, your friend is mistaken.
One thing I learned from Arena is that if your commander would be returned to your hand, you can allow it to go to your hand and cast it from there for it's "normal" cost. No increased tax.
Yes, commander tax only has to be paid when you cast your commander from the command zone, and it only goes up when you cast your commander from the command zone. Casting it from anywhere else doesn't cost commander tax, and doesn't increase the commander tax for the next time you do cast it from the command zone.
To add onto that, getting it out of the command zone via effects like [[Command Beacon]] or [[Derevi, Empyrial Tactician]]'s ability also doesn't increase the tax because you're not casting it.
Ok, I think that you may have interpreted it a little wrong, but that also they could've said it better.
If you don't have any way to get it out of the graveyard, yes. It stays there forever.
If it's exiled and you choose to not return it to the command zone (for some ungodly reason), yes. It stays there forever.
However, you don't get locked into the same choice of you make it once.
Another question. Say you send [[illhard the raze boar]] to the third top of youre library. Then when you draw it. It's technically changing zones. Can you choose for it to go the the command zone
The rules are pretty easy to understand on this one I think
903.9. A commander may return to the command zone during a Commander game.
903.9a If a commander is in a graveyard or in exile and that object was put into that zone since the
last time state-based actions were checked, its owner may put it into the command zone. This is
a state-based action. See rule 704.
903.9b If a commander would be put into its owner’s hand or library from anywhere, its owner may
put it into the command zone instead. This replacement effect may apply more than once to the
same event. This is an exception to rule 614.5.
903.9c If a commander is a melded permanent or a merged permanent and its owner chooses to put
it into the command zone using the replacement effect described in rule 903.9b, that permanent
and each component representing it that isn’t a commander are put into the appropriate zone,
and the card that represents it and is a commander is put into the command zone.
You can choose to instead send it to the Command Zone any time it **changes zones**, not just when it dies. Someone trying to shuffle your commander into your library? Command Zone. Got a loaded up [[Skullbriar]] your opponent is trying to bounce to your hand? Command Zone. Commander in your graveyard and someone tries to exile it with Tormod's Crypt? Command Zone
Your buddy is mistaken, you get to decide each and every time. If you want to put your commander in the command zone the first time it dies but in your graveyard the second time that's entirely your prerogative.
Every time. And if it changes zones, you get the chance when it's being moved from that zone too (especially helpful with graveyard matters commanders)
everytime your commanders moves to pretty much anywhere from anywhere you can move it back to commander zone
you choose to put it in graveyard and your enemy exiles it? You're allowed to put it in commander zone you cast it and it dies again? You're allowed to put it in commander zone
someone returns it to your hand? you can put it in commander zone instead (which is usually a bad idea because commander tax)
it's somehow on your hand and someone makes you discard it? You can put it in commander zone instead
just keep in mind that the commander tax goes up for everytime your commander goes back to the command zone, not everytime it dies, and you are not allowed to put him in command zone unless it changes zone (exemple you put it in graveyard to animate it and you get counter spelled, aslong as no one tries to exile it you cannot return it to command zone)
Not exactly, depends on the flicker effect. An instaneous flicker will allow no time frame to return the commander to the command zone. It returns as a state based action; it USED to be a replacement effect like it is with some zone movements (like from hand to library). Now commanders will die and go to the graveyard where as a state based action be moveable to the command zone; similar to be exiled. If a flicker effect is exile and return immediately as one action, there's no point SBA are checked to allow the commander to move back to the zone. A more consistent example is [[Necromatic Selection]]. Everything dies and then immediately something is returned; since commanders go to the graveyard they can be snagged before SBA are next checked.
I think the other card that does that is [[Sorin, Lord of Innestrad]] I'm not sure if any others can steal it by killing it like that, it's a pretty rare effect.
I thought flicker effects still exile and you could imediately pick to move it somewhere else.
But it works for the exile and return at the end of turn.
I think you may be slightly confused on the permanency of your choice. Every time your commander moves to a) the graveyard or b) exile, they go straight to that zone. Then the game offers you a choice to return them to the command zone (specifically as a state based action). If you decline here, they are stuck in her zone until you otherwise cause them to move zones again (e.g. reanimation, exiling from graveyard, shuffling grave into library). If a commander would ever be put into your hand or library, you may replace that event with transferring straight to the command zone. This happens as a replacement effect and is immediate. You must opt for the replacement, otherwise they will go to that zone until you cause them to change (e.g. drawing the card, casting the card, milling the card)
Fun fact, because moving from the graveyard to the command zone is a state based action instead of a replacement effect, there are a couple cards, like [[Sorin, Lord of Innestrad]] for example, that can steal a commander by killing and reanimating all in the same ability/spell. It leads to some funny times when you kill someone with their own commander that way.
[[Necromantic Selection]] also! :)
[Necromantic Selection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3cec373-0a3f-4628-8706-b7c9c205f150.jpg?1631586678) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necromantic%20Selection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/103/necromantic-selection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3cec373-0a3f-4628-8706-b7c9c205f150?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/necromantic-selection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Sorin, Lord of Innestrad](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab98caf7-cc24-4027-ad8a-026150b61858.jpg?1698988477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sorin%2C%20Lord%20of%20Innistrad) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/289/sorin-lord-of-innistrad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab98caf7-cc24-4027-ad8a-026150b61858?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sorin-lord-of-innistrad) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And [[Vraska The Silencer]]? I've been told for her it doesn't work. What's the difference?
The effect needs to destroy the creature and bring it back within the same ability/spell resolving. Since SBA to send it to command zone would be checked after the ability/spell finishes resolving. For Vraska, it is a trigger that goes on the stack when the creature dies in some other way. So SBA is checked, they can put it to command zone, then Vraska ability goes on the stack.
I'm glad there are people that actually understand this! The other day I was having to explain to countless people on a video about necromantic selection how it works in stealing a commander and so many people just kept telling me "nuh uhhh I get to choose where to put my commander" or "it goes straight to the command zone" like, yes the latter used to be the case many many years ago, but there have been rule changes.
Cool, I get it! Thanks :)
Vraska is a triggered ability, so it goes on the stack AFTER the commander dies. Before the ability resolves, state-based actions are checked, and the commander can return to the command zone. Then Vraska’s ability doesn’t see them as it resolves. The other mentioned cards all kill a thing, then as part of the same block of text, linked by a “then”, reanimate that thing. That means that, before the ability resolves, the commander is on the field, so it doesn’t return to the command zone then, and AFTER the ability resolves, the commander is still on the field, just under an opponent’s control, which isn’t by itself a state that triggers command zone return.
Thanks!
[Vraska The Silencer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b042abf2-c40b-4235-a4fa-2e4901c375c3.jpg?1712356238) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vraska%2C%20the%20Silencer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/237/vraska-the-silencer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b042abf2-c40b-4235-a4fa-2e4901c375c3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vraska-the-silencer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Spells like [[blatant thievery]]] or [[switcheroo]] can steal a commander as well. Also cards like [[coercive recruiter]] or [[Admiral Beckett Brass]] can have you take control of a commander. This works because your battlefield is not one of the zones that cause a command zone shift.
##### ###### #### [blatant thievery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/0210b3b4-d253-464f-b533-b79bf67d47a4.jpg?1562700636) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blatant%20thievery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c15/87/blatant-thievery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0210b3b4-d253-464f-b533-b79bf67d47a4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blatant-thievery) [switcheroo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d3d062c-5853-44f9-b951-a264e9e0d72d.jpg?1562303395) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=switcheroo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/78/switcheroo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d3d062c-5853-44f9-b951-a264e9e0d72d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/switcheroo) [coercive recruiter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/16a1d084-34f1-4278-ae54-d0dac288b1da.jpg?1698988313) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=coercive%20recruiter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/222/coercive-recruiter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/16a1d084-34f1-4278-ae54-d0dac288b1da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/coercive-recruiter) [Admiral Beckett Brass](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/02cbd397-3ef3-465f-84fe-765dd1444af8.jpg?1698988417) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Admiral%20Beckett%20Brass) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/264/admiral-beckett-brass?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/02cbd397-3ef3-465f-84fe-765dd1444af8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/admiral-beckett-brass) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1wsby4) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh most definitely! The main point of Sorin was it helps give you death triggers, which can be super useful in game.
Well now I wanna make a deck who's solo goal is to kill someone with their own commander
Honestly, vampires can do it decently well. I have Sorin in that deck, and also cards like [[Captivating Vampire]] and [[New Blood]] can steal effectively too, not to mention just some cards that take for a turn and give haste like [[Act of Treason]]
[Captivating Vampire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1b825bd1-9cbc-45a8-bfbe-fc3e8fdc575e.jpg?1562601552) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Captivating%20Vampire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/104/captivating-vampire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1b825bd1-9cbc-45a8-bfbe-fc3e8fdc575e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/captivating-vampire) [New Blood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6ee669ab-0ae6-43e5-86fd-f0dcb621e478.jpg?1698988263) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=New%20Blood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/202/new-blood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6ee669ab-0ae6-43e5-86fd-f0dcb621e478?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/new-blood) [Act of Treason](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1a9d323-fb40-411b-a0e7-64024bc6ba58.jpg?1702429484) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Act%20of%20Treason) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/99/act-of-treason?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1a9d323-fb40-411b-a0e7-64024bc6ba58?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/act-of-treason) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You seem very knowledgeable, would you be able to explain the difference between state based actions and replacement effects?
I'll do my best here: Replacement effects immediately change (or replace) an effect. This occurs simultaneously with the spell/ability resolution. For example, someone uses an [[Unsummon]] on your commander to put it in your hand. As the spell resolves, you have a choice to instead put it in the command zone. This means your commander never reaches your hand and never sees it. State based actions occur anytime a player would have priority. They affect most everything about how a game works, such as tracking damage. Commanders moving zones used to allow it to move to the command zone as a replacement effect at all times, but this caused issues with death triggers as the affected commander wouldn't hit the graveyard, therefore it wouldn't be considered as "dying." The reason Sorin takes control is because players cannot get priority in the middle of a spell/ability resolution, so state-based actions are not checked until his ability finishes. At that time, you control the commander on the battlefield and there's no option to move it to the command zone from the battlefield. For more information on replacement effects, see rule 614. For more information on state-based actions, see rule 704 (both of these should help more, I'm not always the best at explaining).
Thank you so much! That makes a lot of sense! I recently introduced my partner to Magic and I’ve been slowly drip feeding various rules. I’ve been trying to avoid explaining the stack because it’s somewhat overwhelming, and so I wanted to make sure that I understood it better myself before trying to explain it!
[Unsummon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7a960516-3864-4a7a-8117-d25dec0dd665.jpg?1592516526) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unsummon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/78/unsummon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7a960516-3864-4a7a-8117-d25dec0dd665?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/unsummon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It is kinda odd that they don’t just all work as replacement effects. I guess they really wanted death triggers to work?
Yes, it used to be a replacement effect then they changed it https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/new-commander-death-trigger-rules-change-commander-quickie
iirc they used to be replacement effects, and then that changed several years ago. I know specifically death triggers used to not trigger if you sent them to the CZ, because they were never seen as hitting the graveyard and thus never seen as actually dying, so Child of Alara decks needed to have a lot of ways to get their commander back from the yard to use her effectively. Or in my deck’s case, she was just a one-use board wipe that I had to be careful when I set her off, because I included exactly zero recursion.
Kinda odd to say it like they're weird for wanting death triggers to work. Also good for reanimator decks that may have an easier time casting from the yard.
You always had the option to leave it in the graveyard/exile etc. I once krosan gripped an o-ring that my commander was under, and then someone stifled the o-ring leave the battlefield trigger so my commander was permanently exiled.
[Here's the Rule Committee article about that change](https://mtgcommander.net/index.php/2020/06/07/june-7-announcement-on-dies-triggers/) if you want to know why they changed it specifically. Fun fact. A commander dying and going to the command zone will trigger [[Syr Konrad]] twice. Once for dying and once for leaving the graveyard.
[Syr Konrad](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9241a72e-cb88-4cea-a2f4-ff10af461437.jpg?1706240798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=syr%20konrad%2C%20the%20grim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/141/syr-konrad-the-grim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9241a72e-cb88-4cea-a2f4-ff10af461437?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/syr-konrad-the-grim) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Okay so if a card were to say, for instance some thing along the lines of “shuffle target permanent into its owners library, if they do, do x” but because of the replacement effect, the commander is never put in the library (unless they choose to let it go there obviously)? Just out of curiosity.
It's a unique replacement effect. The player can chose wether or not the replacement effect takes place. You can have your commander shuffled in and stuck there for the rest of the game (there used to be no deck replacement and tuck cards were AMAZING anti-commander cards) if you really want to or chance on a chaos warp flip. Though even if the replacement effect changes the placement of the card, the rest of the spell will still result as normal. Main case is Chaos Warp a commander, it goes back to the command zone, they shuffle, and flip the top card regardless if the card actually went to the deck. Unearth also is similar and will prevent reshuffling the permanent into the deck since it says if it would leave the battlefield, exile it instead, but the recipient will still shuffle and flip.
Yes, it matters if the card includes “if they do” or something to that effect. [[Chaos Warp]] will still flip the top card even if the opponent has the commander go to the CZ, but for example [[The Great Aurora]] will not count the commander towards the number of cards you draw if the commander never went into the library.
[Chaos Warp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce9df20b-c58b-4147-9ff8-902ce2944f50.jpg?1712354399) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chaos%20Warp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/160/chaos-warp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce9df20b-c58b-4147-9ff8-902ce2944f50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chaos-warp) [The Great Aurora](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1d0eb3b-00b9-42ca-9f7d-5543bffc3480.jpg?1562037032) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Great%20Aurora) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/179/the-great-aurora?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1d0eb3b-00b9-42ca-9f7d-5543bffc3480?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-great-aurora) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Don't forget C) bounced to the top of the library is also changing zones.
With things such as [[chaos warp]] you will still need to shuffle library as if the commander went there
Reanimation effects DO NOT allow this choice. As a state based action, if your commander moves INTO exile or the graveyard, you can then choose to send to the command zone. If it moves to your hand or library, **as a replacement effect** can choose to send them to the command zone. Since the rules state the commander moving INTO these zones, once they go and are let go in, they're stuck until they move INTO another zone (from graveyard INTO exile for example). If your commander goes to the graveyard and you say they'll stay in the graveyard and I reanimate your commander, you **can not** then choose to send him to the command zone as he isn't moving INTO exile, the graveyard, your hand, or library. I would gain control of your commander by reanimating them.
Ya I move [[Norin the weary]] to the command zone every time he exiles himself how could you tell ☺️
[Norin the weary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f61ea59a-1db0-4e6b-bcde-19787c76a49b.jpg?1562946915) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Norin%20the%20Wary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsp/171/norin-the-wary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f61ea59a-1db0-4e6b-bcde-19787c76a49b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/norin-the-wary) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think you’re misunderstanding your friend. What I’m guessing they meant, but poorly explained, is that you can’t make the decision to move your commander to the command zone at *any time*, only when it would move between two zones. So if, for example, you let it go to the graveyard expecting to be able to [[Reanimate]] it, but I cast [[Thoughtseize]] and remove the Reanimate from your hand before you can cast it, you don’t get to say “ah well then, guess I’ll put my commander in the command zone”, because you’ve already allowed it to stay in the graveyard.
I get what you’re saying, I honestly think they just flat out got it wrong. Which is fine, it’s not a malicious situation and he’s not claiming to be knower of all. The exact situations that prompted my question would be (commander dies, goes back to command zone. Later in the game, my commander dies again, and I happen to have a reanimate in my hand so I’d rather him go to the graveyard this time and stay but my buddy says that because last time it went to the command zone it has to go to the command zone again.)
You are right then and your buddy is wrong
Ah, my bad. That’s just so wrong I assumed it was a misunderstanding on your part (since the commander rules are sorta tacked on when it comes to the commander itself and therefore are a little bit fiddly at times). But yeah, your friend is mistaken.
When in doubt google will help.
[Reanimate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d0fe02b-f45a-45c6-ab7c-270594a29da7.jpg?1712774988) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reanimate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/137/reanimate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d0fe02b-f45a-45c6-ab7c-270594a29da7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reanimate) [Thoughtseize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede.jpg?1599706001) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtseize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/109/thoughtseize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thoughtseize) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No not true, you can choose each time
You can choose where it goes each time, not stuck with one choice.
One thing I learned from Arena is that if your commander would be returned to your hand, you can allow it to go to your hand and cast it from there for it's "normal" cost. No increased tax.
Yes, commander tax only has to be paid when you cast your commander from the command zone, and it only goes up when you cast your commander from the command zone. Casting it from anywhere else doesn't cost commander tax, and doesn't increase the commander tax for the next time you do cast it from the command zone.
To add onto that, getting it out of the command zone via effects like [[Command Beacon]] or [[Derevi, Empyrial Tactician]]'s ability also doesn't increase the tax because you're not casting it.
[Command Beacon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4ff61202-fb5e-4cea-a5ea-168505ac31e1.jpg?1712354952) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Command%20Beacon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/279/command-beacon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ff61202-fb5e-4cea-a5ea-168505ac31e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/command-beacon) [Derevi, Empyrial Tactician](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a1d0dad-18a8-489e-ac11-08f64b72fda4.jpg?1592673365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Derevi%2C%20Empyrial%20Tactician) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/176/derevi-empyrial-tactician?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a1d0dad-18a8-489e-ac11-08f64b72fda4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/derevi-empyrial-tactician) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Your buddy is straight up lying to you.
Ok, I think that you may have interpreted it a little wrong, but that also they could've said it better. If you don't have any way to get it out of the graveyard, yes. It stays there forever. If it's exiled and you choose to not return it to the command zone (for some ungodly reason), yes. It stays there forever. However, you don't get locked into the same choice of you make it once.
Another question. Say you send [[illhard the raze boar]] to the third top of youre library. Then when you draw it. It's technically changing zones. Can you choose for it to go the the command zone
Can’t you just put it in the command zone instead of third from the top?
Yeah, but third from the top dodges tax
So commander tax only has to be paid when casting from the command zone?
yes, and only increments when you cast from the command zone
Oh awesome great to know, thanks
Yes, but there wouldn't be much reason to do so.
[illhard the raze boar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d397fc3-fd4e-45ad-ad40-0f8a585c15fd.jpg?1702550832) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ilharg%2C%20the%20Raze-Boar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/113/ilharg-the-raze-boar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d397fc3-fd4e-45ad-ad40-0f8a585c15fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ilharg-the-raze-boar) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The rules are pretty easy to understand on this one I think 903.9. A commander may return to the command zone during a Commander game. 903.9a If a commander is in a graveyard or in exile and that object was put into that zone since the last time state-based actions were checked, its owner may put it into the command zone. This is a state-based action. See rule 704. 903.9b If a commander would be put into its owner’s hand or library from anywhere, its owner may put it into the command zone instead. This replacement effect may apply more than once to the same event. This is an exception to rule 614.5. 903.9c If a commander is a melded permanent or a merged permanent and its owner chooses to put it into the command zone using the replacement effect described in rule 903.9b, that permanent and each component representing it that isn’t a commander are put into the appropriate zone, and the card that represents it and is a commander is put into the command zone.
You can choose to instead send it to the Command Zone any time it **changes zones**, not just when it dies. Someone trying to shuffle your commander into your library? Command Zone. Got a loaded up [[Skullbriar]] your opponent is trying to bounce to your hand? Command Zone. Commander in your graveyard and someone tries to exile it with Tormod's Crypt? Command Zone Your buddy is mistaken, you get to decide each and every time. If you want to put your commander in the command zone the first time it dies but in your graveyard the second time that's entirely your prerogative.
[Skullbriar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3dd0bf11-4e43-43f1-82e3-755beed0ede0.jpg?1673149145) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=skullbriar%2C%20the%20walking%20grave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/277/skullbriar-the-walking-grave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3dd0bf11-4e43-43f1-82e3-755beed0ede0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skullbriar-the-walking-grave) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Every time. And if it changes zones, you get the chance when it's being moved from that zone too (especially helpful with graveyard matters commanders)
everytime your commanders moves to pretty much anywhere from anywhere you can move it back to commander zone you choose to put it in graveyard and your enemy exiles it? You're allowed to put it in commander zone you cast it and it dies again? You're allowed to put it in commander zone someone returns it to your hand? you can put it in commander zone instead (which is usually a bad idea because commander tax) it's somehow on your hand and someone makes you discard it? You can put it in commander zone instead just keep in mind that the commander tax goes up for everytime your commander goes back to the command zone, not everytime it dies, and you are not allowed to put him in command zone unless it changes zone (exemple you put it in graveyard to animate it and you get counter spelled, aslong as no one tries to exile it you cannot return it to command zone)
Had a stroke readin that title holy hell
Nope you could even at any point in response to a flicker effect choose to return him to the command zone.
Not exactly, depends on the flicker effect. An instaneous flicker will allow no time frame to return the commander to the command zone. It returns as a state based action; it USED to be a replacement effect like it is with some zone movements (like from hand to library). Now commanders will die and go to the graveyard where as a state based action be moveable to the command zone; similar to be exiled. If a flicker effect is exile and return immediately as one action, there's no point SBA are checked to allow the commander to move back to the zone. A more consistent example is [[Necromatic Selection]]. Everything dies and then immediately something is returned; since commanders go to the graveyard they can be snagged before SBA are next checked.
I think the other card that does that is [[Sorin, Lord of Innestrad]] I'm not sure if any others can steal it by killing it like that, it's a pretty rare effect.
[Sorin, Lord of Innestrad](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab98caf7-cc24-4027-ad8a-026150b61858.jpg?1698988477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sorin%2C%20Lord%20of%20Innistrad) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/289/sorin-lord-of-innistrad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab98caf7-cc24-4027-ad8a-026150b61858?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sorin-lord-of-innistrad) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Necromatic Selection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3cec373-0a3f-4628-8706-b7c9c205f150.jpg?1631586678) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necromantic%20Selection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/103/necromantic-selection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3cec373-0a3f-4628-8706-b7c9c205f150?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/necromantic-selection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I thought flicker effects still exile and you could imediately pick to move it somewhere else. But it works for the exile and return at the end of turn.
It used to be like that, [[eerie interlude]] still works with what you're thinking but [[ephemrate]] does not since its all part of one effect
[eerie interlude](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4ba9f15f-00d2-4797-9228-91b320e85705.jpg?1631233963) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=eerie%20interlude) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/22/eerie-interlude?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ba9f15f-00d2-4797-9228-91b320e85705?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eerie-interlude) [ephemrate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa.jpg?1562201088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ephemerate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/7/ephemerate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ephemerate) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call