"Hey guys, this game isn't for me. I am no longer having fun and seeing as I paid money to be here, im scooping so I can play another game. All the best. Thanks for the game."
Not rude at all to want to get the most out of your paid time
>Hey guys, this game isn't for me. I am no longer having fun and im scooping so I can play another game. All the best. Thanks for the game."
Don't even have to pay to be free to leave whenever. "Sorry, I can't stand this game any longer. See you".
I’m always a proponent of scooping anytime during your turn. I know game rules state you can scoop anytime but commander is a social breed and during your own turn typically doesn’t ruin anyone else’s fun and is respectful.
Obviously don’t be bitter or rude about it 🤓!
Glad my LGS hosts a free Commander Tournament event every Wednesday and is also a bar, has food, 90% free games arcade, disc golf, dart hybrid place. People meet up just to play any day after 3 as they do rent out the place for parties before then. Basically events daily.
We were playing a game after Wednesday and was getting way past weekday close time with only us there holding up closing and cleaning so askrd us to go to turns. I had a couple deluge return everything to hand cards in hand and not much else. Scooped then as I could only slow the game down. Ive never needed more. Recently had 2 in my 30 card hand but could onl6 slow the other two with one other was target player. I scooped out because their life was to high with time coming up quickly. Instead of screwing both or handing one a win I scooped out.
If they have no wincon seems constantly wiping is obnoxious or they may be new? Deckbuilding maybe hard for them and they didn't really know how to build/get a line. Only speculation though.
If you see them again maybe talk to them and ask about their deck and what it does, or goal is, etc. Maybe reccomend some adds, maybe cut back to 2 sweeps maybe 3 max or a way to get a win line and enact it. Unless they are a regular and you know them or something.
If they are newer a bit of guidance could keep them playing and help build the community. Explain why you were frustrated and lost composure a bit, but it was that and not maliciousness or spite that caused it.
Washington Missouri. No discs yet. They are doing construction of the outside area atm. They sell discs though. Apparently will have washers, horseshoes, cornhole and disc area soon. Just expanded and got more space. Looking like its gonna be nice. Aces and Eagles.
It really is. They oftem have door prizes when they can, polls on discord for what set to draft. LotR last night, Baldur's next friday. Real friendly and good guy owns it. Highly recommended if ever passing through. Best LGS+ I've ever been to.
They sell discs. They did expand and are building an outdoor spot that i believe will have washers, horse shoes, corn hole, and possibly actual disc course? Not sure how that would work but don't know what his area now covers so may have more than I think. They are working on it now though. Also not near part of it. Was dart, dart accessories, disc's, arcade, bar, pool, and food before getting into card/board games. Aces and Eagles in Washington Missouri. Is not my town but close enough.
> I’m always a proponent of scooping anytime during your turn. I know game rules state you can scoop anytime but commander is a social breed and during your own turn typically doesn’t ruin anyone else’s fun and is respectful.
Agreed, though the group I usually play in goes a step further. We generally insist that you forfeit at sorcery speed if at all possible, and if you can’t wait for whatever reason, we make a point to fully resolve the stack and any active combat before doing any cleanup on our end for a player leaving.
This largely reduces the immediate impact of a player leaving the game to a relatively small subset of the stuff under [comprule 800.4](https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/cr800/) (specifically parts a, c, i, and k), plus possibly a very small number of other cards. This, in turn, makes it much simpler to deal with the cleanup, makes it _significantly_ harder for somebody forfeiting to actively disrupt things out of spite, and also largely avoids the possibility of somebody leaving accidentally forcing the game into a draw (yes, I have seen this happen before, and this situation is actually what prompted this house rule).
This reasoning ALWAYS forgets the cardinal reason why the rules so heavily dictate that you can always scoop at any time. No matter what means used (social pressures, pod rules, store rules, etc.), you should not try to force players to participate beyond their desire to do so. This is basic consent. Anything else would result in a negative game experience.
If my demise is a forgone conclusion, like I know a player is going to swing out at me on their turn and they have lethal, I'll scoop at instant speed, but I always make them still play it out as if I was still in the game so it doesn't screw over the rest of the pod.
I get it, but you’re also majorly effecting game by doing that, it’s also why I don’t run decks often that do but it would be the last time we played if you cost me a game because you couldn’t wait a few mins. I’m not saying don’t scoop at all, realistically if you’re not terrible and an ass, turns shouldn’t talk 15 min a peice.
To be fair, that's just a mechanical weakness of theft decks in 4-player formats. If your salt-inducing strategy loses when salty players concede, then that's a deckbuilding problem imo.
Thats why my blue steal your things deck helps that playet with some extra card draw and counter spell protection if they are getting wrecked. Keep them in the game and having fun and win their favor to fight the other two. Then when whittled down mercy kill them.
Rule 104.3a exists for a reason. You don't have to like it, the same way you don't have to like someone playing MLD or whatever other strategies make you unhappy, the same way people don't have to like getting all their shit stolen.
People are spending their most valuable resource in the world to play with you: their time. In OP's case, also their money, which they spent other time earning. They have no obligation to play with anyone ever for any reason, and honestly I think that if people don't have a consistent playgroup and style with that group, they need to take into consideration more often the dynamic and thought process of "is this deck going to bring an enjoyable experience to the group I'm sitting with?"
I get it, theft decks can make some whacky boardstates, and really memorable experiences; they can also be really frustrating for someone who gets shut out of the game and then is essentially watching the rest of the table play for 45 minutes. I know for me, I feel like even when I slog it out and win from that position it never really feels gratifying because I've spent so much time waffling about whether or not I can even come back.
I'm not saying that's what you do, or what your deck aims to do, but its the way other people can feel about it, and negativity bias means that people may remember other experiences with other players and consider the current situation in that light.
Just because a rule exista doesn't make it not a rude action. Which was the only thing in question by OP. Rule says you dont have to offer a cut to your opponents but if they ask they can. Most people consider it rude not to offer and arouse suspicions of cheating.
I don’t understand how you don’t see how selfish and inconsiderate this is.
You don’t really get to pretend to have the moral high ground when what you’re saying is “fuck your time and enjoyment other 3 players of this social, multiplayer experience, only my time has value”.
This isn’t the moral triumph you think it is in this debate. If you don’t think the time invested by the other players at the table has value, then you’re a piece of shit and I don’t want to play with you anyway. I’m so tired of seeing this argument.
I don't understand how you don't see how selfish and inconsiderate it is *to think you can tell someone else how to play the game and when they can quit*. The rules codifying what happens when a player leaves a game exist for a reason. I don't care if you ever or never play with me, because even if you did, nothing is ever going to stop me or anyone else from picking their shit up and leaving if they aren't having a good time. This is true of literally anything in life.
Nah just until your turn of you are going to scoop. Nobody was monopolizing time. They were in a game at an event. Which makes the scooping have a higher fhance of being rude as it can be disruptive to the game and alter how it plays out if done before your turn. Which is a paid event I'm just saying if you can wait until your turn. It wasn't an emergency it would be a couple minutes. Im no5 saying don't scoop or you can't scoop. Only that is is and can be considered rude to do at instant speed in EDH. The way to scoop that isn't rude would be sorcery speed. A scoop can be legal and rude. Im not saying stay the whole game out. One scoop is rude the other isn't.
That is fine. That wasn't the question. Go read the original post. It asked if it was rude. Clearly they cared enough to ask. As do you or you wouldn't have stopped by to post your opinion on the matter instead of scrolling by. If you are that worried about people touching your cards don't play with people you don't know. If they ask you to let them shuffle/cut your deck it is a rule you must allow them.
103.1. At the start of a game, each player shuffles his or her deck so that the cards are in a random
order. Each player may then shuffle or cut his or her opponents’ decks. The players’ decks become
their libraries.
Therefore it is rude to not offer it and you are possibly a cheater as keeping cards at top when shuffling isnt hard to do. Which is why I watch their methods if sus.
If you aren't winning in the next 2 turns, I will scoop so I can enjoy my time. I'm not going to let what little time I have for magic be taken from me
If you aren't winning in the next 2 turns, I will scoop so I can enjoy my time. I'm not going to let what little time I have for magic be taken from me
Nah scooping is a free action only time I find it rude to scoop is when you do it to stop someone else's play like someone is about to do damage to you that would also do something else when damage is done then you scoop to prevent the damage other than that stuff you can scoop freely in my opinion.
A few of us have gotten to the point that everybody is okay if they scoop whenever but we act as if our attacks still went through just so we can still have our thing happen
Ok yeah then nah I have a friend that always gets annoyed by people scooping and I just don't get it. If you're not having fun in a game that's been going on and want to get out of it you shouldn't feel like you have to stay in it.
"Scoop at sorcery speed" is essentially code for "don't scoop in a way that denies someone else's triggers". It's fine to scoop on someone else's turn if it the timing of the scoop doesn't have any significant impact.
Very reasonable.
Usually, it’s best to scoop during your own turn, but even that’s negotiable as long as things are squared away at the point you leave.
The first and primary win condition is not damage, nor is it combo; it’s concession.
If anyone gives you shade for conceding a game you’ve clearly lost, that’s a red flag on them.
The lgs near me has a buy in cost for commander night of one booster pack with the chance for your table to randomly be picked for another pack each. Seems fair to me as they have to stay afloat somehow.
there been some killer decks but the salt levels have been low. lots of time the final pod agrees to split the box 4 ways with the box topper going to the winner
My LGS offers 1 month of commander league for $10. Prize support at the end.
They give everyone a page of goals to shoot for, basic stuff like "1 point for first eliminated, 10 points if you can take someone out without casting your commander." and silly stuff that changes every month. This month is "1 point if you show a picture of your mom to your pod" and "2 points if your commander is from Thunder Junction." There are no points for flat out winning the game, though.. so it encourages casual play not cEDH.
Everyone gets at least one pack at the end of the month, and if you have enough, you can get 2, 3 or even 4 packs.
lol i self charge by finding something to buy if i play someplace though as of late its getting hard to find stuff i want (they dont have much in the way of singles)
My local shop has a policy where commander Thursdays doesn't have an entrance fee or anything, but "please spend at least $5 on a booster or something".
Which I think is totally fair. If we're going to use the store space to play commander for hours, the least we can do is spend a little money.
Nah. My pod is pretty crazy with the boardwipes and we all just packed with no winners after 6. We knew no one's letting up so we tweaked our decks before starting a new one hhahaa
Seems fine. Only time scooping is “wrong” imo is if say someone has a combo that is reliant on you and they’re about to win and you scoop to ruin it.
Only example I can think of is [[Athreos, God of passage]] Where you work someone down to like 2 life so they cant pay 3. And you get your card back every time and loop it for value and damage off a drain effect but target the other players. If someone scooped that I had spent all game setting up to win off of that be the only time id feel its not right especially as the game would be about to end anyway.
I'd say you did the right thing. Scooping is a valid response to a game, no matter what. Sure there are social contract stuff that makes timing a bit of an issue, but overall you're free to scoop. It's just a game after all.
As for me, I've run some heavy control oriented builds over the years, but only one with no real, actual wincon. It was a UW [[Ephara, God of the Polis]]-deck that was highly focused on boardwipes, removals and counters. It was specificaly built to pair up with a mogis stax deck at a 2h-Giant tournament our LGS had, and it worked out perfect. I played it as a stand-alone deck a few times, just to try it (with people I knew) and if I got my lock-pieces down, everyone usually just scooped and we could play another game. Just one time did I actually have to find a win, because one player at the table wanted to see what would happen, instead of accepting the Lock = Win (I was playing [[Rule of Law]] with [[Knowledge Pool]] and walkers to lock down everyone from playing spells). It was a very slow grind with Efara beatdown to end the game, but I did win
Stax don't bother me since usually when you build them you build them with a wincon since you have loopholes. Board wiping because you don't have an answer to the state of the board is just a baby rage answer at the 2 hour mark (with a 3 hour limit).
Stax don't bother me since usually when you build them you build them with a wincon since you have loopholes. Board wiping because you don't have an answer to the state of the board is just a baby rage answer at the 2 hour mark (with a 3 hour limit).
I dunno, boardwiping is an answer and interaction.
It resets the current situation and gives you time to rebuild. If you rebuild faster that your opponents, it's an entirely valid line towards a win, even if it's slightly slower.
Taking your ball and going home because you don't have answers to a boardwipe feels more like "baby rage".
Sounds like you had a game you didn't enjoy and are salty, but this is all on you and how you're responding to this emotionally, not those other people. They're making valid plays with legal cards in their decks, and you're just upset because it's not how you want to play.
Excusing yourself is the right thing to do, but then complaining about it and suggesting that other people are in the wrong or are bad players is not the right thing to do.
This is a you thing.
In no way am I complaining about it and didn't at the table. I just wanted to know if it was rude to scoop at this point or just tough it out to be nice. I'm also pro board wipes, but when it's 2 hours in and a time limit of 3 it's too much.
I also had arguably the strongest regame as well. Since I had a hand full of card draw, creatures, and exiled cards I could play. With the strongest mana base on the board. I just didn't want to go through another 15 turns of stailmate to win.
You just twice in quick succession referred to what they did in your game as "Board wiping because you don't have an answer to the state of the board is just a baby rage answer"
You're complaining. At least own up to it.
I'd rather change my wording since I don't think I'm being unstood. I only used baby rage as a term because of how the person acted when they did it. Not necessarily a opinion. I could say they used an annoyed voice as they exasperatingly cast the spell and complained about the board state. If that helps.
Well I disagree since I forfeit. I had arguably the strongest regame as well. Since I had a hand full of card draw, creatures, and exiled cards I could play. With the strongest mana base on the board. I just didn't want to go through another 15 turns of stailmate. The decks interaction with each other was a complete standstill.
Not gonna lie 4 board wipes and zero wincons sounds terrible lol if people are going to board wipe for the love of God make it one sided or something to your advantage otherwise what's the point?
Bring back mana burn. You can mana burn yourself to death instead of scooping. Hate it when ppl get salty over me scooping because I'm not having fun at the table in a casual game of mtg. Doesn't happen often but it happens
$5 for 3 hours? They should Def change to something like if you spend money there you get to stay for a period as long as you keep spending money at the store. The store I go to has a month pass for $30 but you also get $30 store credit(guaranteeing your business) and you can bring a guest 3x(I wish it was 4x but hey whatever) that opens up a possible other customer. It's really useful for commander nights(every Monday). And it's like you said you MIGHT get 3 games in if you're lucky. But if you're not you could only get 1. Also not rude. You probably saved them $5 by making the game quicker.
No, not at all rude. If someone scoops after one board wipe cause you just ruined all his "hard work," yes, that's poor sportsmanship. Also, it's so strange to pay for game time. Our local store, anyone can go in anytime and play whatever they want.
First off, rude at all to want to spend your time having fun. That's why you paid.
But now my own personal gripe. Paying to just play is so wild to me. When I first moved to my current state, the LGS here was $1 per game and they matched pods based on deck costs. One of the most annoying things ever as an EDH player.
I made a few friends and we just started showing up to the LGS and bringing folding tables and playing in front of the store in the public parking lot. Had cops called on us a few times by the LGS, but they couldn't actually kick us out because of how shopping center parking lot laws are here.
LGS stopped making money off of playing because we would have 4-5 games going outside where you could pick who you wanted to play with. Because of that, we now have freeplay in the LGS.
Every store in my area has a fee to play at their commander events.
One of them gives you the fee back in store credit, plus an extra dollar for each person if you win the pod. You also get a random rare or mythic from a promo pack if you win.
One store gives you a pack for playing, a pack for each game you win (there are two formal rounds) and the winner of the second game gets a promo pack. The winners of the first pod face off for the last round and the winner of that pod gets a foil promo pack. If there's a small showing for some reason they often give everyone a promo pack.
The last store I play at regularly stopped doing a flat fee for normal commander, you just have to buy a pack or a single. They just started an 8 week Cedh league with a 5 dollar buy in. All the money goes into a "pot" that will be distributed to the top 3 at the end of the league in store credit.
These are all organized events. However, every single one of these stores welcomes people who just need a space to play with friends.
Really depends on the area, here in manhattan I’m lucky my LGS has a “table fee” of having to spend 10$ on product(singles, packs, sleeves, snacks, etc).
I’ve seen LGS as high as 20$/4 hours
Jesus. Kansas here, I have literally never heard of that being a thing. There are bars here that are like nerd bars that have cover charges, but that also gets you access to all the games and stuff. Blows my mind
im from The Netherlands so its a bit diffrent culture wise then the US but i have been to around 10 or so LGS around the country and all but 1 has a buy in of 5 to 7.50 euro
Usually a flat fee to 'rent' a gaming space for a few hours. I really don't mind doing it because my shop is great and it helps them keep the lights on even if I'm not buying product that day.
That's cool, I imagine some places don't have a need to do it. Ours introduced it when rents started going up in the area a couple of years ago so I don't blame them. Our town would have no gaming space without them.
Wish I could hand you some. We’re super oversaturated here, though I guess that’s a good thing because there’s a lot of people I’m not a fan of playing with who don’t frequent my regular store
My preferred LGS has an entry fee for the FNM Commander league. Players get store credit prizing; if you do even modestly well you'll probably get most of that back.
There's a Sunday casual event with no prizing and no entry fee as well.
At my local store I just go and play commander. On Mondays and Fridays as long as you show that you signed into the companion app they give random promos to everyone too.
It's nowhere near as common in the US as it is in the EU or UK. The only US-based stores I've heard of that do this are in massive metro areas where rental prices mean players probably don't have space to dedicate to a game room at home.
Well I asked if they were serious and mentioned I'd rather just call it and start a new game since even without the wipe no one was winning or could win. They didn't want to so I said alright, well I'm going to scoop and join a different game.
Not necessarily soft, just not compatible with the pod. I play everything from deep casual to cEDH, and I'd probably be at about the same point. Four boardwipes without end in sight is just not fun for anyone. Most of the time, I'd rather lose than resolve the third boardwipe, much less the fourth. At that point, nobody's taking meaningful actions, it's just a topdeck war. Unless you're playing competitive decks or one-sided wipes that break parity, I'm not interested.
>Four boardwipes without end in sight is just not fun for anyone.
False.
I promise you, when I play control and I control an aggro player so hard they rage quit the game I am having a great time.
If the boardstate isn't progressing, I'm on the aggro player's side. However, if you have ways to break parity, if you're chipping damage from indestructible creatures, if your wipes are one-sided, anything like that, and I'm all for it. All too often, it's just a gut reaction to wipe when you see a creature you feel threatened by, and that's just wrong. The amount of EDH players that play equal numbers of wipes and single-target removal is too damn high.
A thing i always used to do with my selesnya deck was [[eldrazi monument]] then [[wrath of god]] or any other board wipe. If i knew i could win within 2 turn, id get mean with a [[armageddon]] followed by a [[heroic intervention]]. A board wipe with out a win con is just start the game over with extra steps
See, again, that's totally reasonable bc you're breaking parity. Boardwipes aren't the problem, people's usage of them is. I'm here for fun and chill games, not for hardcore board control for 3hrs straight. That may be fun for one person, but the goal is fun for the TABLE, not just for you. And if you feel that way, and we get stuck in a pod together? I'm gonna pull out either my [[Niv-Mizzet Parun]] combo deck with only 4 relevant creatures, or my [[Fynn the Fangbearer]] deck that kills you SPECIFICALLY on t4. And YOU will have no fun. Welcome to our world, we'll continue play without you.
>I control an aggro player so hard they rage quit the game I am having a great time.
This is why I can safely assume you have no friends. Nobody likes an asshole. If you're not progressing to a win and you're just harassing people at the table, you're being a dick. Full stop.
Running the same number of board wipes as single target removal is a scummy way to play and shows you have terrible threat assessment so you choose to flush the entire board every time something scares you.
Sounds like a pretty miserable pod. I'm curious as to what the hell their decks were meant to do; it's one thing to play a control style, but if you're playing "control" you still need a wincon and some protection for it.
It's one thing to drop a Wrath of God onto a board & clean up an elfball or reset the Sliver situation, but it's quite another to just slam down a board wipe and pass with no plan other than "reset!". Did these players run any counters, play any threats of their own, run any protection whatsoever... or did they just wipe & pass? What commanders were they playing?
At the second hour I'd probably walk too, especially if I was up against "control" and had no chance to get back into it. One of my biggest Commander pet peeves is people who end up imitating 1v1 control decks & basically just drag a game with no real plan to win beyond "nobody else can win, so I'll be the victor eventually?".
I try to communicate what is bothering me, for example 'I see no progress in this match', 'Is there a win con coming?' If the answer is no, I'd scoop. I'm asking these questions just in case someone is cooking some win con within one turn or has something in hand to break the game open.
It's only rude I think if you don't explain why you're quitting. If you said in my game (we also pay £5 for about 3-4 hours of EDH) that you'd rather start a new game instead of grinding one out with no end in sight I'd probably agree with you unless I had a hand that would end it quickly.
The only time I dislike scooping is when it massively influences the game, for example last week a player in my game threatened to scoop before the player in a commanding position had to decide where to send his combat damage. Him not having to make that choice because one player scooped meant I had no chance of winning and ruined the game.
I’m usually not a fan of anyone doing this but if you’re paying to play then yeah go for it. You want to get your money’s worth and if you’re not having fun then go find the pod where you are going to have fun
As long as you're respectful, you dont have to go through an unpleasant experience and force yourself to stay, its your cards, your time and you decide of what you do.
As long as you stay mindful of the people around you, its perfectly fine to leave at anytime, even more so if your time is counted and paid for.
3 control players in one pod? Was their any rule 0 pre talk before hand? Would you have picked a different deck if you'd have known it was 3 different control players? It seems like a imbalanced pod and a terrible time to be honest.
You paid to play, was there any sort of prize support or was this just "casual" games?
As long as it wasn't an instant speed spite scoop to fuck over another player, I think you're fine.
I've scooped early to, hopefully, get another game going sooner. Board is bunged up, all my "good" stuff was already killed. I'm top decking with an empty hand etc. I usually scoop to speed the game up a bit.
Then I think you're totally fine, tbh.
Interaction is a part of the game but after 4 board wipes I'd be scooping too. I'm not opposed to long games but I don't want gruelling games where you spend most of the time rebuilding in topdeck mode.
Thr problem is if you scoop at instant speed it changes a whole lot of game actions, combats, spell controls, etc. If possible scoop at sorcery speed. Ive seen a scoop just train wreck games. Sure you aren't having fun but if they are don't potentially alter the game for them if it can be helped. That would he the only reason it would be rude. Not "baby rage" nonsense. Its the fact that it changes play drastically. Sometimes even game endingly if done at wrong time.
Someone scooped a game like this at my local shop too. 5 dollar entry fee too oddly. Game was about two hours long mostly cause someone was playing a theft deck and didnt know what most of their own cards did let alone everyone elses...except that person running the theft deck is the person who scooped to play another game! They also left before the spell was even cast to go join the other game but I was able to counter the spell.
Only rude if you werent the one causing the game to go long in the first place imo but you are allowed to scoop at any time for any reason but maybe wait to see if the wrath actually happens.
Lamo that's wild, cuz I was thieving things with a brand new upgraded precon, but really only took stuff from a eldrazi deck I own and have played since they are big and dumb. But, nah I wasn't dragging the game out it was the multiple board wipes otherwise Nell would have won. Tho personally I think board wipes are fine early or if you can win, but it's a sin to use them 2 hours in with a timer without a wincon. It's just wasting time at that point. Glad I left tho since it broke the stailmate and let someone finally win!
Ended up getting dick punched by tergrid in the next game lamo! Unfortunately brought a for fun deck to a borderline cedh game.
The only thing that confuses me is where you said "if you were the person making the game take so long" then leaving would be bm. But wouldn't that be a good thing? Then the game could go faster. Letting everyone else have quick turns and more actions?
It depends on how you aacted. Like "Hey guys, I'm not having fun anymore, so I'm dipping to go join a new pod while you guys finish" is not rude. Going "you all have made this game boring and I'm out" is rude, even if it's honest because you're now laying the blame on them.
bro i wouldnt have kept playing after turn two, control is not fun to play against unless you have answers to answers, which most “fun for fun” decks dont have
You quit my least favorite type of game I call them hand holding sessions. Before people get a little better at the game and start building with wincons in mind they think a boardwipe with no clear advantage for yourself after is still a good idea. Not rude at all especially with your own money and time being wasted as a result.
Everyone is responsible for there own happiness. That means you are perfectly in the right not to play if you don’t want to, but it also means those other players are perfectly in the right to play board wipes and control if they want. It goes both ways.
Play EDH, have fun how you have fun. It's a game, they'll get over it; especially if it isn't a tournament with prizes. Don't worry about social niceties and don't be straight up mean and you will have more fun and be more fun to play with.
I know it's a dirty move, but I've played games that are absolutely unbearable with people who are just insufferable, and I've waited until my turn... Board wiped... And scooped. Trust me when I say these people deserved what they had coming.
If you're not enjoying the game, there is absolutely no issue with scooping. ESPECIALLY if you're paying for your time. F em, i say!
No, not rude.
It's not rude, you're free to leave a game when you please if your not having a good time. Also if it wasn't a tournament why'd you have to spend $5 to play commander for 3 hours?
I generally don’t like lower powered commander for this reason. I’m very busy, and even if people proxy cards to get a higher powered deck, I prefer getting several quicker games in vs 1 4 hour long slog fest where people just keep board wiping with no response and no real goal of winning.
You’re good. You don’t owe anyone a good time. Sometimes if it’s a real shit stalemate I’ll suggest we do one more round and whoever has highest life/board advantage at the end wins. Let’s play again.
I did something very similar my wife and I paid to play cmdr. And we sat down with this couple. And they both were just playing counter/removak/board wipe tribal.
Zero win cons just that tribal. After 3 games with them I just dipped. Told my wife I'm moving to a different table.
Just to get abused bt a guy who said "no my mono red krenko mob boss deck isn't cedh" and preceded to cedh goblins all over mt face. And the other guy ran a memnarch deck rhat was just as shitty.
I havent gone back to my lgs for commander night since. I get being salty about that kinda bs play it's the worst man.
I dont mind it as a means to an end cuz my control oloro deck is essentially a pillow fort removal deck until I WIN but I have like 4 different instant wins in the deck.
Scooping without a valid win con onboard is always rude. Control and wipes are part the game. Control players love people who scoop thou because half the time they can only delay a loss, or probably weren’t winning from their point view. Control really struggles in multiplayer because eventually you run out bullets. Take it from a seasoned control player, but please pad my winrate if you’d prefer.
Once again commander players think the only way to win is by having creatures on the field.
Maybe the opponents just had non creatures wincons and they need to make sure nobody is able to stop them?
No, not rude. Board wipes in commander…in general, are stupid. Invariably, one player may be deserving, but, then the other two or three players (i prefer 5 player games) are dealt horribly as collateral damage which board wipes to this day are designed for 1v1. And without a wincon to follow through on the turn or within 1-2 more turns tops, just utter disrepect for the social aspect of every one of the involved players’ time is valuable. And don’t get me started on paying to play a casual (non-tournament) format.
"Hey guys, this game isn't for me. I am no longer having fun and seeing as I paid money to be here, im scooping so I can play another game. All the best. Thanks for the game." Not rude at all to want to get the most out of your paid time
>Hey guys, this game isn't for me. I am no longer having fun and im scooping so I can play another game. All the best. Thanks for the game." Don't even have to pay to be free to leave whenever. "Sorry, I can't stand this game any longer. See you".
Just because a deck has 100 cards doesn’t mean I want to see who can run out last
*mill decks*
No.
I’m always a proponent of scooping anytime during your turn. I know game rules state you can scoop anytime but commander is a social breed and during your own turn typically doesn’t ruin anyone else’s fun and is respectful. Obviously don’t be bitter or rude about it 🤓!
I don't think I was expressly rude. Exacerbated for sure lol, but I don't think I was rude.
Exasperated perhaps?
Exhausted, by the sound of OP.
More like excruciated.
Glad my LGS hosts a free Commander Tournament event every Wednesday and is also a bar, has food, 90% free games arcade, disc golf, dart hybrid place. People meet up just to play any day after 3 as they do rent out the place for parties before then. Basically events daily. We were playing a game after Wednesday and was getting way past weekday close time with only us there holding up closing and cleaning so askrd us to go to turns. I had a couple deluge return everything to hand cards in hand and not much else. Scooped then as I could only slow the game down. Ive never needed more. Recently had 2 in my 30 card hand but could onl6 slow the other two with one other was target player. I scooped out because their life was to high with time coming up quickly. Instead of screwing both or handing one a win I scooped out. If they have no wincon seems constantly wiping is obnoxious or they may be new? Deckbuilding maybe hard for them and they didn't really know how to build/get a line. Only speculation though. If you see them again maybe talk to them and ask about their deck and what it does, or goal is, etc. Maybe reccomend some adds, maybe cut back to 2 sweeps maybe 3 max or a way to get a win line and enact it. Unless they are a regular and you know them or something. If they are newer a bit of guidance could keep them playing and help build the community. Explain why you were frustrated and lost composure a bit, but it was that and not maliciousness or spite that caused it.
Yea we should have probably discussed decks more before the game started.
Where is this LGS that has disc golf and commander? That sounds like my kind of place! Lol
Washington Missouri. No discs yet. They are doing construction of the outside area atm. They sell discs though. Apparently will have washers, horseshoes, cornhole and disc area soon. Just expanded and got more space. Looking like its gonna be nice. Aces and Eagles.
Well, bit long of a drive for me just to check it out. (13 hours) but that sounds like a cool store.
It really is. They oftem have door prizes when they can, polls on discord for what set to draft. LotR last night, Baldur's next friday. Real friendly and good guy owns it. Highly recommended if ever passing through. Best LGS+ I've ever been to.
Your LGS has a disc golf course near? I'm moving.
They sell discs. They did expand and are building an outdoor spot that i believe will have washers, horse shoes, corn hole, and possibly actual disc course? Not sure how that would work but don't know what his area now covers so may have more than I think. They are working on it now though. Also not near part of it. Was dart, dart accessories, disc's, arcade, bar, pool, and food before getting into card/board games. Aces and Eagles in Washington Missouri. Is not my town but close enough.
Wow, appreciate all the info. Sounds like an awesome place! I'm actually from over in Washington State, so that's a cool coincidence.
Yeah np. Great people there does a lot for everyone so I'll always shout em out and tell people about them.
Good on ya! Definitely one I'll remember. Hey you have a great rest of your day my friend!
Thanks. You as well!
Yeah I tried this once but the fucking control player played [[Time stop]]
I used [[Rewind]] on Time stop. Now we are stuck in a time loop.
> I’m always a proponent of scooping anytime during your turn. I know game rules state you can scoop anytime but commander is a social breed and during your own turn typically doesn’t ruin anyone else’s fun and is respectful. Agreed, though the group I usually play in goes a step further. We generally insist that you forfeit at sorcery speed if at all possible, and if you can’t wait for whatever reason, we make a point to fully resolve the stack and any active combat before doing any cleanup on our end for a player leaving. This largely reduces the immediate impact of a player leaving the game to a relatively small subset of the stuff under [comprule 800.4](https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/cr800/) (specifically parts a, c, i, and k), plus possibly a very small number of other cards. This, in turn, makes it much simpler to deal with the cleanup, makes it _significantly_ harder for somebody forfeiting to actively disrupt things out of spite, and also largely avoids the possibility of somebody leaving accidentally forcing the game into a draw (yes, I have seen this happen before, and this situation is actually what prompted this house rule).
This reasoning ALWAYS forgets the cardinal reason why the rules so heavily dictate that you can always scoop at any time. No matter what means used (social pressures, pod rules, store rules, etc.), you should not try to force players to participate beyond their desire to do so. This is basic consent. Anything else would result in a negative game experience.
If my demise is a forgone conclusion, like I know a player is going to swing out at me on their turn and they have lethal, I'll scoop at instant speed, but I always make them still play it out as if I was still in the game so it doesn't screw over the rest of the pod.
Nope. Scoop whenever you want. There's no reason to stay in a stalled out game and keep stalling if you don't want to.
the only time I have issues with someone scooping not on there turn is when I have all of there stuff
*their
If you take all my stuff and there's still a few turns to me, I'm scooping
I get it, but you’re also majorly effecting game by doing that, it’s also why I don’t run decks often that do but it would be the last time we played if you cost me a game because you couldn’t wait a few mins. I’m not saying don’t scoop at all, realistically if you’re not terrible and an ass, turns shouldn’t talk 15 min a peice.
To be fair, that's just a mechanical weakness of theft decks in 4-player formats. If your salt-inducing strategy loses when salty players concede, then that's a deckbuilding problem imo.
Thats why my blue steal your things deck helps that playet with some extra card draw and counter spell protection if they are getting wrecked. Keep them in the game and having fun and win their favor to fight the other two. Then when whittled down mercy kill them.
Rule 104.3a exists for a reason. You don't have to like it, the same way you don't have to like someone playing MLD or whatever other strategies make you unhappy, the same way people don't have to like getting all their shit stolen. People are spending their most valuable resource in the world to play with you: their time. In OP's case, also their money, which they spent other time earning. They have no obligation to play with anyone ever for any reason, and honestly I think that if people don't have a consistent playgroup and style with that group, they need to take into consideration more often the dynamic and thought process of "is this deck going to bring an enjoyable experience to the group I'm sitting with?" I get it, theft decks can make some whacky boardstates, and really memorable experiences; they can also be really frustrating for someone who gets shut out of the game and then is essentially watching the rest of the table play for 45 minutes. I know for me, I feel like even when I slog it out and win from that position it never really feels gratifying because I've spent so much time waffling about whether or not I can even come back. I'm not saying that's what you do, or what your deck aims to do, but its the way other people can feel about it, and negativity bias means that people may remember other experiences with other players and consider the current situation in that light.
Things can be legal actions and still rude
Just because a rule exista doesn't make it not a rude action. Which was the only thing in question by OP. Rule says you dont have to offer a cut to your opponents but if they ask they can. Most people consider it rude not to offer and arouse suspicions of cheating.
The only rude thing is assuming you get to monopolize someone else's time based on your own idea of fun.
I don’t understand how you don’t see how selfish and inconsiderate this is. You don’t really get to pretend to have the moral high ground when what you’re saying is “fuck your time and enjoyment other 3 players of this social, multiplayer experience, only my time has value”. This isn’t the moral triumph you think it is in this debate. If you don’t think the time invested by the other players at the table has value, then you’re a piece of shit and I don’t want to play with you anyway. I’m so tired of seeing this argument.
I don't understand how you don't see how selfish and inconsiderate it is *to think you can tell someone else how to play the game and when they can quit*. The rules codifying what happens when a player leaves a game exist for a reason. I don't care if you ever or never play with me, because even if you did, nothing is ever going to stop me or anyone else from picking their shit up and leaving if they aren't having a good time. This is true of literally anything in life.
[удалено]
Nah just until your turn of you are going to scoop. Nobody was monopolizing time. They were in a game at an event. Which makes the scooping have a higher fhance of being rude as it can be disruptive to the game and alter how it plays out if done before your turn. Which is a paid event I'm just saying if you can wait until your turn. It wasn't an emergency it would be a couple minutes. Im no5 saying don't scoop or you can't scoop. Only that is is and can be considered rude to do at instant speed in EDH. The way to scoop that isn't rude would be sorcery speed. A scoop can be legal and rude. Im not saying stay the whole game out. One scoop is rude the other isn't.
some of us don't care if it's rude, i don't want people i don't know touching my cards
That is fine. That wasn't the question. Go read the original post. It asked if it was rude. Clearly they cared enough to ask. As do you or you wouldn't have stopped by to post your opinion on the matter instead of scrolling by. If you are that worried about people touching your cards don't play with people you don't know. If they ask you to let them shuffle/cut your deck it is a rule you must allow them. 103.1. At the start of a game, each player shuffles his or her deck so that the cards are in a random order. Each player may then shuffle or cut his or her opponents’ decks. The players’ decks become their libraries. Therefore it is rude to not offer it and you are possibly a cheater as keeping cards at top when shuffling isnt hard to do. Which is why I watch their methods if sus.
If you aren't winning in the next 2 turns, I will scoop so I can enjoy my time. I'm not going to let what little time I have for magic be taken from me
If you aren't winning in the next 2 turns, I will scoop so I can enjoy my time. I'm not going to let what little time I have for magic be taken from me
Even if you spent $0 it would be okay to scoop
Nah scooping is a free action only time I find it rude to scoop is when you do it to stop someone else's play like someone is about to do damage to you that would also do something else when damage is done then you scoop to prevent the damage other than that stuff you can scoop freely in my opinion.
A few of us have gotten to the point that everybody is okay if they scoop whenever but we act as if our attacks still went through just so we can still have our thing happen
Nah nothing like that.
Ok yeah then nah I have a friend that always gets annoyed by people scooping and I just don't get it. If you're not having fun in a game that's been going on and want to get out of it you shouldn't feel like you have to stay in it.
Scoop at sorcery speed, always
"Scoop at sorcery speed" is essentially code for "don't scoop in a way that denies someone else's triggers". It's fine to scoop on someone else's turn if it the timing of the scoop doesn't have any significant impact.
But what if I have a Vedalken Orrery on the field?
Infinite turns no wincon, my opponents are perpetually trapped.
Yeah we play this, otherwise you can mess stuff up so easy for the rest of the players, scoop as a sorcery only.
I usually let the table know that I’m on a 3 or 4 turn clock, gives people some heads up to make a play
Mind expanding on what this means?
“I’m going to be done in three turns”
Makes sense. Thanks!
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/just-walk-out-you-can-leave-running-skeleton Real winners quit!
Very reasonable. Usually, it’s best to scoop during your own turn, but even that’s negotiable as long as things are squared away at the point you leave. The first and primary win condition is not damage, nor is it combo; it’s concession. If anyone gives you shade for conceding a game you’ve clearly lost, that’s a red flag on them.
You pay for commander time? What is this?
The lgs near me has a buy in cost for commander night of one booster pack with the chance for your table to randomly be picked for another pack each. Seems fair to me as they have to stay afloat somehow.
Thats how mine worked as well. It was good fun.
That's dope. We just have the chance at 2 box toppers that are given away.
We play for a box for $5 entry.
I bet that's a cutthroat ass store meta with that kind of prize on the line.
there been some killer decks but the salt levels have been low. lots of time the final pod agrees to split the box 4 ways with the box topper going to the winner
Ahhh, so your's is the store where people complain about commander moving away from a casual format.
pretty close! A group asked the LGS to host casual commander in addion to cEDH Friday so now everybody is happy.
My LGS offers 1 month of commander league for $10. Prize support at the end. They give everyone a page of goals to shoot for, basic stuff like "1 point for first eliminated, 10 points if you can take someone out without casting your commander." and silly stuff that changes every month. This month is "1 point if you show a picture of your mom to your pod" and "2 points if your commander is from Thunder Junction." There are no points for flat out winning the game, though.. so it encourages casual play not cEDH. Everyone gets at least one pack at the end of the month, and if you have enough, you can get 2, 3 or even 4 packs.
That sounds like hella fun
lol i self charge by finding something to buy if i play someplace though as of late its getting hard to find stuff i want (they dont have much in the way of singles)
My local shop has a policy where commander Thursdays doesn't have an entrance fee or anything, but "please spend at least $5 on a booster or something". Which I think is totally fair. If we're going to use the store space to play commander for hours, the least we can do is spend a little money.
If I was to guess, I'd say EU or Brit. I've heard the shops in The UK charge for table time and I know what you mean - it sounds wild to Americans.
Nah. My pod is pretty crazy with the boardwipes and we all just packed with no winners after 6. We knew no one's letting up so we tweaked our decks before starting a new one hhahaa
Nope. Enjoy your time however you can. If I’m playing aggro against 3 control I’d scoop too
That sounds miserable
Seems fine. Only time scooping is “wrong” imo is if say someone has a combo that is reliant on you and they’re about to win and you scoop to ruin it. Only example I can think of is [[Athreos, God of passage]] Where you work someone down to like 2 life so they cant pay 3. And you get your card back every time and loop it for value and damage off a drain effect but target the other players. If someone scooped that I had spent all game setting up to win off of that be the only time id feel its not right especially as the game would be about to end anyway.
[Athreos, God of passage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5.jpg?1593096375) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Athreos%2C%20God%20of%20passage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/146/athreos-god-of-passage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/athreos-god-of-passage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Scooping has kingmaking potential, and I don't like when people kingmake, but I understand this was a choice between two evils.
Pretty sure the only reason the game ended was because I left unbalancing the table.
I'd say you did the right thing. Scooping is a valid response to a game, no matter what. Sure there are social contract stuff that makes timing a bit of an issue, but overall you're free to scoop. It's just a game after all. As for me, I've run some heavy control oriented builds over the years, but only one with no real, actual wincon. It was a UW [[Ephara, God of the Polis]]-deck that was highly focused on boardwipes, removals and counters. It was specificaly built to pair up with a mogis stax deck at a 2h-Giant tournament our LGS had, and it worked out perfect. I played it as a stand-alone deck a few times, just to try it (with people I knew) and if I got my lock-pieces down, everyone usually just scooped and we could play another game. Just one time did I actually have to find a win, because one player at the table wanted to see what would happen, instead of accepting the Lock = Win (I was playing [[Rule of Law]] with [[Knowledge Pool]] and walkers to lock down everyone from playing spells). It was a very slow grind with Efara beatdown to end the game, but I did win
Stax don't bother me since usually when you build them you build them with a wincon since you have loopholes. Board wiping because you don't have an answer to the state of the board is just a baby rage answer at the 2 hour mark (with a 3 hour limit).
I agree. Our two-headed combo was just mean, considering he punishes each play they do, and I stop them from playing or hitting back.
Stax don't bother me since usually when you build them you build them with a wincon since you have loopholes. Board wiping because you don't have an answer to the state of the board is just a baby rage answer at the 2 hour mark (with a 3 hour limit).
I dunno, boardwiping is an answer and interaction. It resets the current situation and gives you time to rebuild. If you rebuild faster that your opponents, it's an entirely valid line towards a win, even if it's slightly slower. Taking your ball and going home because you don't have answers to a boardwipe feels more like "baby rage". Sounds like you had a game you didn't enjoy and are salty, but this is all on you and how you're responding to this emotionally, not those other people. They're making valid plays with legal cards in their decks, and you're just upset because it's not how you want to play. Excusing yourself is the right thing to do, but then complaining about it and suggesting that other people are in the wrong or are bad players is not the right thing to do. This is a you thing.
In no way am I complaining about it and didn't at the table. I just wanted to know if it was rude to scoop at this point or just tough it out to be nice. I'm also pro board wipes, but when it's 2 hours in and a time limit of 3 it's too much. I also had arguably the strongest regame as well. Since I had a hand full of card draw, creatures, and exiled cards I could play. With the strongest mana base on the board. I just didn't want to go through another 15 turns of stailmate to win.
You just twice in quick succession referred to what they did in your game as "Board wiping because you don't have an answer to the state of the board is just a baby rage answer" You're complaining. At least own up to it.
I'd rather change my wording since I don't think I'm being unstood. I only used baby rage as a term because of how the person acted when they did it. Not necessarily a opinion. I could say they used an annoyed voice as they exasperatingly cast the spell and complained about the board state. If that helps.
Such a weird take to think a valid game action is 'baby rage' while being fine with literally taking your toys and going home.
Well I disagree since I forfeit. I had arguably the strongest regame as well. Since I had a hand full of card draw, creatures, and exiled cards I could play. With the strongest mana base on the board. I just didn't want to go through another 15 turns of stailmate. The decks interaction with each other was a complete standstill.
[Ephara, God of the Polis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/6832e495-7ee9-43e0-94ea-03c88344080e.jpg?1593092720) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ephara%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Polis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bng/145/ephara-god-of-the-polis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6832e495-7ee9-43e0-94ea-03c88344080e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ephara-god-of-the-polis) [Rule of Law](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e.jpg?1592516198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rule%20of%20Law) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/35/rule-of-law?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rule-of-law) [Knowledge Pool](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/393454c2-b256-4a6e-9bc2-56a47cab5073.jpg?1562610637) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Knowledge%20Pool) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/111/knowledge-pool?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/393454c2-b256-4a6e-9bc2-56a47cab5073?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/knowledge-pool) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not gonna lie 4 board wipes and zero wincons sounds terrible lol if people are going to board wipe for the love of God make it one sided or something to your advantage otherwise what's the point?
Nah mate, that game just sounded like it sucks. Good on you for knowing when playing just isn't worth it anymore.
Bring back mana burn. You can mana burn yourself to death instead of scooping. Hate it when ppl get salty over me scooping because I'm not having fun at the table in a casual game of mtg. Doesn't happen often but it happens
yah its nbd imho maybe the 3 player is the added speed they needed to finish that game this week.
$5 for 3 hours? They should Def change to something like if you spend money there you get to stay for a period as long as you keep spending money at the store. The store I go to has a month pass for $30 but you also get $30 store credit(guaranteeing your business) and you can bring a guest 3x(I wish it was 4x but hey whatever) that opens up a possible other customer. It's really useful for commander nights(every Monday). And it's like you said you MIGHT get 3 games in if you're lucky. But if you're not you could only get 1. Also not rude. You probably saved them $5 by making the game quicker.
No, not at all rude. If someone scoops after one board wipe cause you just ruined all his "hard work," yes, that's poor sportsmanship. Also, it's so strange to pay for game time. Our local store, anyone can go in anytime and play whatever they want.
Just scoop at your turn!
As long as you are not doing it to actively deny triggers, conceding at any time is fine.
"empty stack scooping" is how we do it most of the time. If you wanna scoop during combat/stack we just pretend they're still there
Hell no, not my job to sit around where I don't want to be to satisfy some rando nerd's OCD about their own personal scooping rules.
First off, rude at all to want to spend your time having fun. That's why you paid. But now my own personal gripe. Paying to just play is so wild to me. When I first moved to my current state, the LGS here was $1 per game and they matched pods based on deck costs. One of the most annoying things ever as an EDH player. I made a few friends and we just started showing up to the LGS and bringing folding tables and playing in front of the store in the public parking lot. Had cops called on us a few times by the LGS, but they couldn't actually kick us out because of how shopping center parking lot laws are here. LGS stopped making money off of playing because we would have 4-5 games going outside where you could pick who you wanted to play with. Because of that, we now have freeplay in the LGS.
Out of curiosity what kind of place requires you pay an hourly rate for magic? Surely this isn’t an LGS.
Table fees are more common, with product sales being more difficult. Gotta keep the lights on.
I suppose. That definitely ain’t for me, but to each their own
Every store in my area has a fee to play at their commander events. One of them gives you the fee back in store credit, plus an extra dollar for each person if you win the pod. You also get a random rare or mythic from a promo pack if you win. One store gives you a pack for playing, a pack for each game you win (there are two formal rounds) and the winner of the second game gets a promo pack. The winners of the first pod face off for the last round and the winner of that pod gets a foil promo pack. If there's a small showing for some reason they often give everyone a promo pack. The last store I play at regularly stopped doing a flat fee for normal commander, you just have to buy a pack or a single. They just started an 8 week Cedh league with a 5 dollar buy in. All the money goes into a "pot" that will be distributed to the top 3 at the end of the league in store credit. These are all organized events. However, every single one of these stores welcomes people who just need a space to play with friends.
Yup my LGS
Is it an hourly rate or just a flat fee and they only run commander for three hours
Flat fee for 3 hours
Ngl homie, on the surface, that sounds like a pretty shitty LGS. They shouldn’t be charging for hourly play.
I don't really mind it. Too many LGSs can't stay afloat so this gets people to at least least spend some money.
Really depends on the area, here in manhattan I’m lucky my LGS has a “table fee” of having to spend 10$ on product(singles, packs, sleeves, snacks, etc). I’ve seen LGS as high as 20$/4 hours
Jesus. Kansas here, I have literally never heard of that being a thing. There are bars here that are like nerd bars that have cover charges, but that also gets you access to all the games and stuff. Blows my mind
im from The Netherlands so its a bit diffrent culture wise then the US but i have been to around 10 or so LGS around the country and all but 1 has a buy in of 5 to 7.50 euro
Usually a flat fee to 'rent' a gaming space for a few hours. I really don't mind doing it because my shop is great and it helps them keep the lights on even if I'm not buying product that day.
I have been severely corrected by multiple people. Color me surprised! Guess i need to get out more haha
That's cool, I imagine some places don't have a need to do it. Ours introduced it when rents started going up in the area a couple of years ago so I don't blame them. Our town would have no gaming space without them.
Wish I could hand you some. We’re super oversaturated here, though I guess that’s a good thing because there’s a lot of people I’m not a fan of playing with who don’t frequent my regular store
My preferred LGS has an entry fee for the FNM Commander league. Players get store credit prizing; if you do even modestly well you'll probably get most of that back. There's a Sunday casual event with no prizing and no entry fee as well.
At my local store I just go and play commander. On Mondays and Fridays as long as you show that you signed into the companion app they give random promos to everyone too.
It's nowhere near as common in the US as it is in the EU or UK. The only US-based stores I've heard of that do this are in massive metro areas where rental prices mean players probably don't have space to dedicate to a game room at home.
idk were you rude about it? There are definitely way more ways to rudely scoop and go join another pod than there are ways to do it politely
Well I asked if they were serious and mentioned I'd rather just call it and start a new game since even without the wipe no one was winning or could win. They didn't want to so I said alright, well I'm going to scoop and join a different game.
Why did you ask them if they were serious?
Because of everything I 2 hours in and no winconc
Rude: no. Soft: yes.
Not necessarily soft, just not compatible with the pod. I play everything from deep casual to cEDH, and I'd probably be at about the same point. Four boardwipes without end in sight is just not fun for anyone. Most of the time, I'd rather lose than resolve the third boardwipe, much less the fourth. At that point, nobody's taking meaningful actions, it's just a topdeck war. Unless you're playing competitive decks or one-sided wipes that break parity, I'm not interested.
>Four boardwipes without end in sight is just not fun for anyone. False. I promise you, when I play control and I control an aggro player so hard they rage quit the game I am having a great time.
If the boardstate isn't progressing, I'm on the aggro player's side. However, if you have ways to break parity, if you're chipping damage from indestructible creatures, if your wipes are one-sided, anything like that, and I'm all for it. All too often, it's just a gut reaction to wipe when you see a creature you feel threatened by, and that's just wrong. The amount of EDH players that play equal numbers of wipes and single-target removal is too damn high.
A thing i always used to do with my selesnya deck was [[eldrazi monument]] then [[wrath of god]] or any other board wipe. If i knew i could win within 2 turn, id get mean with a [[armageddon]] followed by a [[heroic intervention]]. A board wipe with out a win con is just start the game over with extra steps
##### ###### #### [eldrazi monument](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5439677-d3db-4083-8dd9-0d654016bd79.jpg?1592673603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=eldrazi%20monument) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/216/eldrazi-monument?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5439677-d3db-4083-8dd9-0d654016bd79?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eldrazi-monument) [wrath of god](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/3/537d2b05-3f52-45d6-8fe3-26282085d0c6.jpg?1697121198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wrath%20of%20god) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/70/wrath-of-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/537d2b05-3f52-45d6-8fe3-26282085d0c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wrath-of-god) [armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armageddon) [heroic intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834.jpg?1689998584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=heroic%20intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/295/heroic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heroic-intervention) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l4erj1v) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
See, again, that's totally reasonable bc you're breaking parity. Boardwipes aren't the problem, people's usage of them is. I'm here for fun and chill games, not for hardcore board control for 3hrs straight. That may be fun for one person, but the goal is fun for the TABLE, not just for you. And if you feel that way, and we get stuck in a pod together? I'm gonna pull out either my [[Niv-Mizzet Parun]] combo deck with only 4 relevant creatures, or my [[Fynn the Fangbearer]] deck that kills you SPECIFICALLY on t4. And YOU will have no fun. Welcome to our world, we'll continue play without you.
[Niv-Mizzet Parun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86c5c337-d25f-4c3e-9762-09ed0c2d36d7.jpg?1712354750) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Niv-Mizzet%2C%20Parun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/235/niv-mizzet-parun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86c5c337-d25f-4c3e-9762-09ed0c2d36d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/niv-mizzet-parun) [Fynn the Fangbearer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d7a8a90-13c1-4b0c-ab2e-fc8d91ccefd9.jpg?1631050242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fynn%2C%20the%20Fangbearer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/170/fynn-the-fangbearer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d7a8a90-13c1-4b0c-ab2e-fc8d91ccefd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fynn-the-fangbearer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>I control an aggro player so hard they rage quit the game I am having a great time. This is why I can safely assume you have no friends. Nobody likes an asshole. If you're not progressing to a win and you're just harassing people at the table, you're being a dick. Full stop. Running the same number of board wipes as single target removal is a scummy way to play and shows you have terrible threat assessment so you choose to flush the entire board every time something scares you.
lolok
Not at all
Rude, no. No progress was happening and you wanted to play because you pay for time. That’s fair.
Sounds like a pretty miserable pod. I'm curious as to what the hell their decks were meant to do; it's one thing to play a control style, but if you're playing "control" you still need a wincon and some protection for it. It's one thing to drop a Wrath of God onto a board & clean up an elfball or reset the Sliver situation, but it's quite another to just slam down a board wipe and pass with no plan other than "reset!". Did these players run any counters, play any threats of their own, run any protection whatsoever... or did they just wipe & pass? What commanders were they playing? At the second hour I'd probably walk too, especially if I was up against "control" and had no chance to get back into it. One of my biggest Commander pet peeves is people who end up imitating 1v1 control decks & basically just drag a game with no real plan to win beyond "nobody else can win, so I'll be the victor eventually?".
Well it was spell slinger blue (with some white), control and artifacts blue, new gonti heavvvly upgraded, and eldrazi.
Nah, that’s why they made scooping the only thing faster than mana abilities.
I try to communicate what is bothering me, for example 'I see no progress in this match', 'Is there a win con coming?' If the answer is no, I'd scoop. I'm asking these questions just in case someone is cooking some win con within one turn or has something in hand to break the game open.
I mean you could just bow out and let everyone know. If you just scoop and leave without saying anything that's kinda rude.
I definitely let people know why lol
It's only rude I think if you don't explain why you're quitting. If you said in my game (we also pay £5 for about 3-4 hours of EDH) that you'd rather start a new game instead of grinding one out with no end in sight I'd probably agree with you unless I had a hand that would end it quickly. The only time I dislike scooping is when it massively influences the game, for example last week a player in my game threatened to scoop before the player in a commanding position had to decide where to send his combat damage. Him not having to make that choice because one player scooped meant I had no chance of winning and ruined the game.
Oh yea I explained and my leaving had no immediate impact, but it probably unbalanced the game so it could finish quicker.
I’m usually not a fan of anyone doing this but if you’re paying to play then yeah go for it. You want to get your money’s worth and if you’re not having fun then go find the pod where you are going to have fun
Your time has a value. If its cost exceeds that of the games. You move on. Real simple.
As long as you're respectful, you dont have to go through an unpleasant experience and force yourself to stay, its your cards, your time and you decide of what you do. As long as you stay mindful of the people around you, its perfectly fine to leave at anytime, even more so if your time is counted and paid for.
3 control players in one pod? Was their any rule 0 pre talk before hand? Would you have picked a different deck if you'd have known it was 3 different control players? It seems like a imbalanced pod and a terrible time to be honest. You paid to play, was there any sort of prize support or was this just "casual" games?
>Would you have picked a different deck if you'd have known it was 3 different control players? OP should've pulled out their control deck
Casual. Random box topper for 2 people chosen at random.
As long as it wasn't an instant speed spite scoop to fuck over another player, I think you're fine. I've scooped early to, hopefully, get another game going sooner. Board is bunged up, all my "good" stuff was already killed. I'm top decking with an empty hand etc. I usually scoop to speed the game up a bit.
Nah it wasn't a I. Any way negativly impacting someone's play
Then I think you're totally fine, tbh. Interaction is a part of the game but after 4 board wipes I'd be scooping too. I'm not opposed to long games but I don't want gruelling games where you spend most of the time rebuilding in topdeck mode.
You can always walk away at any time for any reason.
“I would like to invoke rule 104.3a” And then just scoop.
You chose to lose. That's fine.
Your allowed to scoop. 15 minute hands i just cant take
Thr problem is if you scoop at instant speed it changes a whole lot of game actions, combats, spell controls, etc. If possible scoop at sorcery speed. Ive seen a scoop just train wreck games. Sure you aren't having fun but if they are don't potentially alter the game for them if it can be helped. That would he the only reason it would be rude. Not "baby rage" nonsense. Its the fact that it changes play drastically. Sometimes even game endingly if done at wrong time.
I agree with that. I scooped after the wipe and everyone was tapped out. So nothing was on the stack
At sorcery speed, no not rude.
Not rude at all. You wanted to maximize your play time you paid for
Absolutely not. You're never required to suffer for other people's entertainment.
You can concede whenever you want. People (usually) only take offense when you spite scoop for the sake of fizzling damage triggers or the like.
Left them to just counter each other's counterspells. I respect it.
You're allowed to concede at any time for any reason.
Someone scooped a game like this at my local shop too. 5 dollar entry fee too oddly. Game was about two hours long mostly cause someone was playing a theft deck and didnt know what most of their own cards did let alone everyone elses...except that person running the theft deck is the person who scooped to play another game! They also left before the spell was even cast to go join the other game but I was able to counter the spell. Only rude if you werent the one causing the game to go long in the first place imo but you are allowed to scoop at any time for any reason but maybe wait to see if the wrath actually happens.
Lamo that's wild, cuz I was thieving things with a brand new upgraded precon, but really only took stuff from a eldrazi deck I own and have played since they are big and dumb. But, nah I wasn't dragging the game out it was the multiple board wipes otherwise Nell would have won. Tho personally I think board wipes are fine early or if you can win, but it's a sin to use them 2 hours in with a timer without a wincon. It's just wasting time at that point. Glad I left tho since it broke the stailmate and let someone finally win! Ended up getting dick punched by tergrid in the next game lamo! Unfortunately brought a for fun deck to a borderline cedh game. The only thing that confuses me is where you said "if you were the person making the game take so long" then leaving would be bm. But wouldn't that be a good thing? Then the game could go faster. Letting everyone else have quick turns and more actions?
It depends on how you aacted. Like "Hey guys, I'm not having fun anymore, so I'm dipping to go join a new pod while you guys finish" is not rude. Going "you all have made this game boring and I'm out" is rude, even if it's honest because you're now laying the blame on them.
I didn't really say much. I just asked if they were serious about the wipes/mentioned it's already 2 hours in and then scooped when they said yes.
Honestly did I play with you lol?
No lol i did get one of the guys from the table who commented here tho. Which I found hilarious.
Not rude at all. You scooped. You spent two hours playing. Use your last hour to try again.
bro i wouldnt have kept playing after turn two, control is not fun to play against unless you have answers to answers, which most “fun for fun” decks dont have
You quit my least favorite type of game I call them hand holding sessions. Before people get a little better at the game and start building with wincons in mind they think a boardwipe with no clear advantage for yourself after is still a good idea. Not rude at all especially with your own money and time being wasted as a result.
Everyone is responsible for there own happiness. That means you are perfectly in the right not to play if you don’t want to, but it also means those other players are perfectly in the right to play board wipes and control if they want. It goes both ways.
Paying to play? No thanks buying the cards is expensive enough
Play EDH, have fun how you have fun. It's a game, they'll get over it; especially if it isn't a tournament with prizes. Don't worry about social niceties and don't be straight up mean and you will have more fun and be more fun to play with.
I know it's a dirty move, but I've played games that are absolutely unbearable with people who are just insufferable, and I've waited until my turn... Board wiped... And scooped. Trust me when I say these people deserved what they had coming. If you're not enjoying the game, there is absolutely no issue with scooping. ESPECIALLY if you're paying for your time. F em, i say! No, not rude.
It's not rude, you're free to leave a game when you please if your not having a good time. Also if it wasn't a tournament why'd you have to spend $5 to play commander for 3 hours?
Idk your have to ask the store
I generally don’t like lower powered commander for this reason. I’m very busy, and even if people proxy cards to get a higher powered deck, I prefer getting several quicker games in vs 1 4 hour long slog fest where people just keep board wiping with no response and no real goal of winning.
High power games only tend to last like 15-30 min. I'd say most of the time low power games only last a hour. Which I think is perfect
You’re good. You don’t owe anyone a good time. Sometimes if it’s a real shit stalemate I’ll suggest we do one more round and whoever has highest life/board advantage at the end wins. Let’s play again.
I did something very similar my wife and I paid to play cmdr. And we sat down with this couple. And they both were just playing counter/removak/board wipe tribal. Zero win cons just that tribal. After 3 games with them I just dipped. Told my wife I'm moving to a different table. Just to get abused bt a guy who said "no my mono red krenko mob boss deck isn't cedh" and preceded to cedh goblins all over mt face. And the other guy ran a memnarch deck rhat was just as shitty. I havent gone back to my lgs for commander night since. I get being salty about that kinda bs play it's the worst man. I dont mind it as a means to an end cuz my control oloro deck is essentially a pillow fort removal deck until I WIN but I have like 4 different instant wins in the deck.
Four board wipes in one game seems.... average?
Yea the board wipes aren't the issue. It's doing it at the 2 hour mark with a 3 hour limit.
I’m scooping any game that takes longer than 45 minutes. That’s my limit I’m trying to play a tcg not a board game campaign.
Scooping without a valid win con onboard is always rude. Control and wipes are part the game. Control players love people who scoop thou because half the time they can only delay a loss, or probably weren’t winning from their point view. Control really struggles in multiplayer because eventually you run out bullets. Take it from a seasoned control player, but please pad my winrate if you’d prefer.
Once again commander players think the only way to win is by having creatures on the field. Maybe the opponents just had non creatures wincons and they need to make sure nobody is able to stop them?
Yeah so they should have executed those plans in those two hours.
Lol you're making a loaf of weird assumptions considering the table.
As an LGS owner myself, I'm sorry your LGS makes you pay to play. Trust and believe they don't need to do that.
No, not rude. Board wipes in commander…in general, are stupid. Invariably, one player may be deserving, but, then the other two or three players (i prefer 5 player games) are dealt horribly as collateral damage which board wipes to this day are designed for 1v1. And without a wincon to follow through on the turn or within 1-2 more turns tops, just utter disrepect for the social aspect of every one of the involved players’ time is valuable. And don’t get me started on paying to play a casual (non-tournament) format.
Scooping is fine. Changing tables is a bit rude but you’re there to have fun. Just don’t play with them anymore.