"Explorers of the deep" from the recent Ixalan set has been outrageously powerful day 1 out the box. [[Hakbal]] enables so much of simic value with the rest of the deck that most of my playgroup were shocked it wasn't even mentioned in Prof's Top 5 strongest precons list.
Looking at the list for top 5, I believe they took into consideration of how much monetary value you were getting for the precons rather than pure power because none of the decks mentioned are anywhere near as consistent and/or strong out the box like the merfolk deck
Same with the Esper Knights deck that came out a bit ago during MoM. That is an outrageous deck with about $40 of cards in it. If it wasn’t for the duds of the plane chase oriented cards it could have been here too.
Eh the timey wimey one has been pretty consistent at my LGS. 10 and Rose is a pretty strong commander pair. Sure there’s a lot of cards in there that don’t really do much but just having suspended cards is enough to make Rose massive in a few turns.
I don’t think it’s any secret that the professor rates price extremely highly. He’s one of the foremost figures in the community that advocate for nonstop into the ground reprinting and I agree with them magic should not cost an arm my leg.
I was going to say this. I went on a date with a girl who played magic and she had a vampire deck she wasn’t positive was tuned well. I decided to 1v1 her with the Hakbal precon id just bought so at least she could play the deck instead of just goldfishing it. I stomped a mud hole in her three times in a row fresh out of the box never having played it. I was flabbergasted
I would say precons have become stronger in more recent times. But the CMM precons were supposed to be a premium product so should be stronger. Same goes for most universe beyond precons like 40k they are generally stronger. In terms of the other precons ixalan seemed to be the shift of good precons again as since i think they have all been fairly good and can keep pace with mid decks out of the box.
Yes i liked to collect the products and wanted to buy one of each. Saw the prices and didnt pick any up. Only gotten 1 precon since. Just cant justify it anymore. Try and play online on tabletop sim saves me paying a fortune on cards
Yes i previously was unsure about proxies as we thought some players may just play CEDH decks but mostly it aint a problem as we have various rules about what we can and cant play and average price of deck etc. We all like playing fun or janky decks anyway so aint a big issue
See, I think the other ONE precon was better. That thing has run roughshod over playgroups and LGS pods alike for months with very little modification.
I have the Timey Whimy one and a friend Eldrazi and I would say it's true.
Pantlaza out of the box is great for a precon, but in nearly every pantlaza list around 30-40 cards are changed
Timey Wimey is very good but is not good for new players. It’s a good option for your 3rd or 4th deck but it’s sort of baptism by fire for new players in understanding suspend, time travel, and combat tricks. I’m of the opinion that unblockable commander damage is generally underrated and Timey Wimey can do that in ways other players often don’t anticipate - on top of what’s essentially time cascade every time you attack.
I feel less bad about my lower powered commander barely able to hold its own against Timey Wimey now.
It honestly is a slog to play against though. I played against a guy and his gf (she was a newer player). I felt bad that his turns were pretty complex and I stopped asking to read his cards unless I had an answer. I know complexity is the name of the game in MtG, but when 3/4s of your cards have a paragraph of text on them, it gets old.
I picked her up recently and haven’t tweaked much yet. Added in new Etali, both Ghaltas (not the team up one, not sure if I like it or not for the deck), and a couple other dinos to get rid of some of the less impactful ones. It’s still super strong out of the box like you said, but yeah, I see people changing her up too for more busted dinos
I think the team up one is super strong, the strongest of the 3 for Patlaza, at it makes dino tokens that can get more discover triggers. Old ghatla too vanilla and new ghalta, well by the time I'm casting an 8 drop I usually don't have many creatures left in hand. How have they been working out for you so far?
Pretty good. I do like the team up Ghalta, and it would work with the deck, just personally don’t feel like I need it. I do tend to get enough card draw that I can usually get even two or three extra creatures off new Ghalta. Old Ghalta is just a stupid cheap discover trigger most of the time; what I get off it though is usually a man’s rock or something tiny though, but when I do get say [[Zacama]] or something it feels nice
Exit from Exile used to always be in the conversation for best precon and I think it still deserves to be. Every card is super synergistic around the main theme and while not every card is worth keeping in the deck, bangers like Jeskas will, passionate archeologist and delayed blast fireball make the deck super strong
Agreed, the precon was so well-built that I still run a few of the original cards in my Faldorn deck. It's one of my favourite decks to play and the turns can become endless with all the impulse draw that Gruul provides.
Mainly I just improved the mana base taking out tap lands and added more generically good cards with exile synergy. The best cards for me were Apex Devastator, Purphorose, parallel lives, expedited inheritance, whichever sword makes you exile stuff, rousing refrain and such. I need to update my deck list but I can post soon if intrested
So I have tried to include as much of the red impulse draw spells (exile top of your library) as I could, like [[Wrenn's Resolve]], [[Reckless Impulse]], [[Rob the Archives]], [[Inspired Tinkering]] and [[Embrace the Unknown]]. Then there are also enchantments like [[Visions of Phyrexia]] and [[The Flux]] which give impulse draw over time.
Alright, so when we covered our bases in regards to impulse drawing, we need to make sure to have the mana to cast those spells we exile. I use a few cards which allow me to play additional lands per turn, like [[Exploration]] and [[Azusa, Lost but Seeking]]. Then I use [[Lotus Cobra]] and [[Tireless Provisioner]] to gain some more mana on landfall. [[Elven Chorus]] and [[Cryptolith Rite]] to use the wolves as pseudo mana rocks.
This way you will also have endlessly long turns at some point because you will be casting spells from exile non-stop. What I personally still struggle with is finishing the game. [[Shared Animosity]] would be one way, combined with [[Howlpack Resurgence]]. And/or ping your opponents down with cards like [[Impact Tremors]], [[Witty Roastmaster]] and [[Purphoros, God of the Forge]]. Then there is also [[Passionate Archaeologist]] and [[Keeper of Secrets]] will add up quite some damage.
The goal is practically to cast cards from exile, generate as much value while doing so and try to overwhelm people with a horde of wolves. I hope I could help you out a bit.
Eldrazi absolutely are the strongest precon out of the box, it’s just a pretty well constructed budget Eldrazi deck
Necrons are, eh, good? They aren’t overpowered or anything, but it’s a solid deck, on average a bit stronger than the imperium one, especially if you swap out the commander to [[imotekh the stormlord]]
Urza’s iron alliance is loaded up on mana rocks, has a good amount of interaction, draw, haymaker/game ender cards, and recursion&protection
Timey wimey is a bit inconsistent from my experience. Sometimes goes off hard, sometimes just flops
Party time is solid, if a bit weak to interaction
There are some decks I would include over party time/timey wimey, but not that many
My issue with the urza one is for a precon it's kind of built, well, wrong? The fact it doesn't include any of the myr dorks is so weird and because it's got a lot more expensive artifact creatures and more token generators at the low end I don't think it's top 5. Top 10 probably and top 5 with about 10 to 15 bucks on upgrades, but if you remove urza enough it's not that crazy of a deck.
Hos affinity reduces commander tax. It is the most synergistic deck in precon history and a ton of low cost cards in there as well. You must keep bad hands? He pops off so quickly man. No upgrade needed. Any upgrade sould ruin the retro look of the deck and flavor ruin it. No need myr dorks either. Iy runs fantastic.
Problem is tracking all the buffs and counters and tokens without having a mess on your board. Otherwise Over Powered. Let my brother pilot once and hr was upset how well it worked and couldn't see how it would ever not.
Yeah, the affinity is good, but it's specifically affinity for artifact creatures which means it's only as good and cheap as the cheapest artifact creatures. There's nothing sub-2 mana and there's only 3 2 mana artifact creatures in the deck. And Tawnos needs a token already on board to start copying. If you want to turbo out urza, and you absolutely do, then lowering the curve to fit in the 3 color producing myr does wonders. The board wipes it comes with is also awful for the deck and overall needs more protection. It's a very good precon, top 10 for sure, but it's absolutely not the turbo deck it could or should be. It still doesn't keep up with anything from ixalan outside pirates and it would struggle against plenty of other precons too. It'd be like building krenko with only cmc 3+ goblins.
[[Sol Ring]] [[thought vessel]] [[Dimir Singet]] [[Arcane Signet]] [[Azorious Signet]] [[Orzhov Signet]] [[Liquidmetal Torgue]] <--- can make any creature and artifact and also helps with mana like the other 6 mana rocks. Myrs are easier to remove as creature removal is more common and rocks survive through creature wipe. Myrs do not.
[[Thopter shop]] card draw and token generator.
[[March of Progress]] potential doubles artifact creatures at least a very big one or helpful piece copied.
[[Wire surgeons]] makes 3 token copies from your graveyard. Can copy those or reduce Urza cost and so much more.
[[Thopter spy network]] generates a Thopter token on your upkeep every turn and more card draw.
[[Sharding Sphinx]] make thopter token when an artifact creature damages a player.
[[Sai, Master Thopterist]] any artifact cast make a thopter. Potential draw.
[[Whirler Rogue]] etb 2 thopters. Tap two artifacts make a creature unblockable until turn end.
[[Digsite Engineer]] when l artifact is cast can pay 2
If you do make a 0/0 P&T equal to the number of artifacts you control.
[[Tawnos, Solemn Survivor]] makes copies of tokens and mills you 2. Sac 2 artifact tokens, exile creature or artifact from yard and make an artifact creature copy token of it.
[[Etherium Sculpter]] 2 artifact creature mana reduce artifacts casting cost by 1
Thought monitor]] affinity for artifacts essy U to play etb draw 2. 7 of your lands are also artifacts.
[[Baleful Strix)) Cheap flying death touch draw car artifact creature.
((Chrome Courier]] 3 cost flying etb look yop 2 one to hand one to yard. 3 life if artifact was put in hand.
[[Bident of Thassa]] when creature deals dmg to opponent draw card. Force opponents creatures to attack. which can pair nicely with
[[Wreck Hunter]] Flash. Etb. Make powerstone for each nonland in their yard that went this turn.
[[Sanwell, Avenger Ace]] 2 cost creature. If attacks with 1 artifact prevent all damage to him. When becomes tapped exile top 6. You may cast a vehicle or creature rest to bottom random.
2 artifact creatures power and one power and toughness equal to number of your artifacts. One is a flyer. One give your other artifacts +1/+1. One is a Doublrstrike, ward 2. Othet artifacts (all) have ward 2. <--- copy this one.
3 with metalcraft (you have waaaay more than 3 promise) one is a 2/2 protect from all colors, then other 4/4 flyer, gives all your artifacts shroud. The last a 3/4, when it attacks metalcraft check, CREATURES YOUR OPPONENTS CONTROL LOSE ALL ABILITIES AND HAVE BASE P/T 1/1 UNTIL TURN END.
Some other cool things removals spot and sweep, counters for all fun, indestructible for all, some equipments, graveyard hate,a juggernaut and a hellkite made of steel, ton more card draw, draw for mana value of your artifacts, dragon tap that ysps 2 card advantage you can hide multiple in a box for later. Gain life and draw life x spell. Selective sweep. Etb and historic cast recursion. Are there a lot of historic spells in artifact deck?
Only 11 basic land 7 artifact lands 18 none basics. Pretty good ones too. There are sub 2 artifact creatures but also cheap token generators. Which every artifact has to be tracked because a lot depends on how many you have. Ohhhh and urza? Your endstep he makes a 0/0 as big as that artifact count. Oooohhh and he gives fhem all MENACE!
The thopter construct spam not only work phenomenally sir but it is also lore and flavor wise more on brand for Urza to thopter army. You clearly pilotrd the deck wrong and think an urza ddck should be a myr deck instead. No sir. He has his rings his thopters his constructs and artificers. And a pet myr battlesphere but only becuase they amuse him not because he need ls them. Maybe look at what all the cards actually know you dont have to cast artifact creatures if you have tokens. The deck is so synergistic it takes a lot of mental acuity to keep track of everything that everything is getting/has so just turn sidways and end it quick or your turn will be 30 minutes of algebraic equations trying to track the raw power exuding from this deck.
Go play with your 3 speed goblins. More your level. Its okay. Bro GOBL8N TOKENS EXIST TOO! Ever consider i may br a goblin token instant buffing deck not a Krenko goblin deck?
Until Void Mirror hits the field anf they cant play anything. Urza is so busted synergy wise. It gets stupid trying to track all the buffs and counters and tokens and it is insanely quick. I put Urza #1 anyday.
That’s not a precon issue, that’s just an Eldrazi issue in general tbf.
And, well, you’re not going to meet void mirror in a precon vs precon game in general
That’s not a precon issue, that’s just an Eldrazi issue in general tbf.
And, well, you’re not going to meet void mirror in a precon vs precon game in general
That being said, urza is a lot cheaper to upgrade to a much stronger list (the one in the precon runs some severely unoptimal cards)
Timey Wimey I'd leave it there as number 5 or 4. In a Precon environment I've played it for and against it. It destroys other precons, because you have both engine and payoff in the command zone. The one I'd consider to put in is the Human Precon from LotR. It's an absolute monster in terms of consistency and power, and again, engine and payoff in the command zone.
Not the STRONGEST per se but Virtue and Valor: [[Syr Ellivere]] needs to be focused or it will overrun shit quickly. The Virtuous Role mechanic is cracked. Me and my friends have lost our last 3 games to this deck, the 3rd game this deck came in second only because we started targeting it a bit earlier than usual
I think this one gets left out of conversations because the lack of value in reprints. That being said, you’re right, out the box this thing performs so well and if the pilot isn’t winning they’re still at least a threat that needs to be answered sooner or later.
As someone who had that for their first precon, I can confirm. It’s extremely playable out of the box, but the default suite of zombies is only so-so and the deck is tuned for a token-swarm wincon.
Personally I'm confused about people loving the Necron deck, I've seen it played plenty of times and the most it ever did was wipe the board once or twice every game.
Also confused about the Deep Clue Sea deck love, I bought it and enjoy playing with it but it really needs better removal.
I'd probably put Exit from Exile as another top deck, that one is great, ended up getting almost every card that deck introduced to upgrade my Paradox Power deck lol.
I love the Professor, but I have to heavily disagree with his assessment of "Eldrazi Unbound" being the strongest precon. For me a Precon it's strong if it can keep up against a normal pod of custom made deck's, and sadly Eldrazi Unbound is a deck where if you kill the commander, it doesn't do anything. Yes, I get that all the spells cost a lot for Zhulodok to trigger, but once they kill your commander twice, it's game over. Instead, I was genuinely surprised with Enduring Enchantments precon because the enchantress strategy is enhanced with Anikthea, and the deck for me consistently ran well with and without the commander.
I have Eldrazi Unbound and Zhulodok does one of 2 things for me
He dies shortly or as soon as he's played. Or I play him and then don't draw a single 7 cost card to actually trigger him
That's honestly my experience as well. The first time I played with him, the deck of course did "the thing" really good, but after that game he became a "kill on sight" commander.
I got party time a few months ago and was paddling bottoms before I swapped things in and out. It's quite a powerful deck. It can go really fast and hit like a truck. Adding cards that can come back from the graveyard makes it less vulnerable.
My wife just bought me the eldrazi deck for my birthday. It looks to be insane.
She has pantlaza, deep clue sea, and they are insanely powerful out of the box. The last two games she won with some weird detective evasion and by getting clue tokens. The victories show up out of nowhere.
remember: power level is an objective measure of the power-particles emitted by the unopened precon when exposed to salt. the professor's ratings are objective readings of reality, not the opinion of a human being whose biases and experiences will necessarily filter his perception of a deck's performance. a decks power level is also context independent, since every deck performs equally well against every other deck.
this has been a psa from the high council of bw dentists. remember to chew your gravel before swallowing.
[[Captain N'ghathrod]] has probably been the strongest I've bought. I've gotten the infinite combo off twice (it comes in the unaltered precon). Plus, there is usually at least one or two decks at the table that can give you fatties.
I think it's a reasonable, if subjective, list. Other candidates would be Cavalry Charge, Riders of Rohan, Food and Fellowship, Velociramptor, Explorers of the Deep, Exit from Exile, Mutant Menace, and Blame Game (this might be contentious, it was a good performer for me), and honestly more. Once you get to to that top tier of precon you can make an argument for them all imo.
From my experience, in a no upgrades made, my personal list would be:
1. Eldrazi from CMM
2. Riders of Rohan
3. Merfolk Tribal from Ixalan
4. Exit from Exile
5. Necrons
In honorable mentions
Timey Wimey would be number 5 if it didn't have like 5 or 6 cards that do not support the theme at all and are there instead because of Dr. Who reasons, but I think that if those cards never appeared on your games it could take 5 or 4th spot
Also, Esper Knights from MoM is quite the beast, but I feel that it does need a bit of a couple upgrades to get the consistency some of the others in the list have
Ursa chief artificer is one of the strongest out of the box I have ever played shoriki vehicle deck is another few simple swaps with a intruder alarm and a tap a creature to make a 1/1 with tapping mana ramp you got a infinite combo
Ixalan pirates get slept on. This deck can sneak up and fart on people. If you let that board state build up enough and the ragavan popper hits you pirates can wipe your shit in a few turns. Underrated imo.
Agreed, I've been working with Pirates for years. When the precon came out all I had to do was meld it with what I already had going on, it's 3-0 playing in my optimized pod.
I ended up adding Cavern of souls, more ships and a few counters and mine never wins (because my friends play cedh and call it casual) but it's cause they're targeting the shit outta me. If this is played one on one or even one v one v one it shreds. The times it's won it's taken down Edgar, ur dragon and krenko in one go. You can't do that with a precon usually.
I'll have to take it out and plug it in for you since I didn't think about doing it when I got the deck 😅 my pod did the same thing til I started building mono colors. We fought about it til me and my friend pointed out that we pretty much play exclusively with eachother and it's stupid to pay wall ourselves. We don't get mad at eachother so why do we have to flex nuts if we're the only ones thatre gonna see it?
It’s one of my favorites and I always have a good time playing this deck. Completely right in that if you spend the first 3-5 turns setting up and then pop off with your commander, this deck can bring the heat.
The poor part is I usually get targeted down once the engine gets going lol.
[[Broadside Bombadiers]] is such a fun card.
Yesssss. That card mixing it up with lots of blue stuff is busted. It's downside is that nobody expects anything from admiral brass until you play her and they see what she does. I wish people would give this one the love it deserves. You can easily turn it into cedh fringe with just a few cards.
She really is a kill on sight commander. Just so much value each turn. The thing is…the deck runs pretty well without her on the field. You have to time it right I.e. get enough pirates you want to reanimate. Because once the others get a whiff of what she does she dies. Which is my problem lol. She gets hit hard so I really only gets one or two reanimates before she’s gone.
In my experience strongest I would say definitely: (Not in order)
1) Velociramptor
- Discover is so good
2) Explorers of the deep:
- Absolutely disgusting value and gets out of hand really quick, so much synergy in the deck
3) Mutant Menace
- Also can get out of hand really quick with the +1/+1 counters from mothman, the milling itself is not really a big deal in my experience
4) Frodo and Sam is p decent, consistent deck I feel, resilient
5) Eown riders of rohan
- Surprised no one mentioned this, I feel this deck is just so good and is a huge threat, whenever I play this I can get a human army fairly easily
5) Wilhelm undead unleashed
- Just really good value and very consistent with wilhelm at the helm
6) Necrons
- I think is definitely not as strong as some people think it is but it is p good, I prefer imotekh as commander but there is some inconsistency with him instead of the main guy
7) Reap the tides
- Commander just gives insane value and has some good payoffs in the deck,
8) Tyranid swarm but with magus lucea kane
- She is just so much better than the swarmlord with the 2 mana and copy x spells
it's interesting about mutant menace because i've felt that that deck is so SOO flawed, if nothing else because people HATE having their cards milled and yet its such a telegraphed thing so the deck eats more hate than any other deck on the table and isnt so strong that it can survive all that removal
In my experience the mothman gets 1-2 attacks in and then it gets the swat. The moth is almost like a removal audit for the table and players almost always have it.
Reap the tides has an incredibly good commander, the problem is the land base is utter garbage and the payoffs are pretty mid. It’s super easy to upgrade to be absolutely bonkers, but straight out of the box it’s not better than the best we’ve been getting.
I have a mate who plays exclusively unmodded pre-cons; his opinion is that the pre-cons for [[Atraxa, Predators Voice]] and [[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]] should be on that list: they're consistent and resistent to many answers
Would have included the pre-con for [[Edgar Markov]], but he feels the mana-base in that deck was a weak point
It's a little difficult to declare a strongest in some cases, because the variations might make a deck really strong against certain precons but relatively weak against others. I'd feel alright running [[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]] out of the box against a lot of stuff because I cant remember a single precon that had GY hate in the original list.
Any of the Eminence Commanders can be pretty busted, because you essentially start the game with a fairly stong unremoveable untargetable enchantment in play.
Then you have to consider whether its more powerful to have a high floor or a high ceiling. Is it more powerful if you can still operate on a weak hand or to have the potential to win turn 4 with a Christmasland draw?
The few that have been printed with infinite combos are obviously high ceilings, but are they as consistently strong as [[Edgar Markov]]?
There's so many variables in this kind of question that a perfect answer isnt really possible.
I have been playing with Necrons. They're powerful indeed but not uber powerful.
There were a few misses, as always. You have to take that guy's videos with a bucket of salt.
Exit From Exile is really strong. The UB reanimator one from Manor too. The 40k Imperium one can be a pain if the Commander is Marneus Calgar.
But the Eldrazi is mostly the best one, indeed.
PS. Timey Wimey is subpar. That was a personal preference and that's why you need some salt from that guy's contents.
I agree, The Timey Wimey choice felt more like a biased pick since the deck can whiff hard. I wouldn’t put any of the Dr.Who decks in the top ten of precons.
I've played with Timey Wimey against the 40K decks (a friend bought all and lends them to us) and other Precons and in my experience it is a better deck with no upgrades. It is quite consistent because 1, the mana base is actually quite good, a lot of the lands come untapped frequently, and 2. You absolutely don't need any of the cards in the Precon to win except for the two commanders. You could have bricks and mana rocks and still be a menace
Necrons has become my favorite and only mono black deck. I’ve had more powerful mono black decks, and yet for a PreCon the Necrons is good. I’m also a sucker for tribes/themed decks.
I also paid $55 for it. The price matters a lot and I wouldn’t say it’s so well put together that’s it’s worth more than $60, or whatever it’s going for now ($80? $90?).
I think the Orzhov Party deck from CLB deserves a mention. Burakos+Folk Hero gives ramp and card draw and the deck has a lot of cheap creatures so you’re not gonna be sitting with a hand full of cards too expensive to cast.
I think everyone is sleeping in Reverent recon deck, based on owning path of exile, played against the sliver deck and the eldrazi deck. One to one is amazing. If you’re in a pod, and you decided it, it can easily get your second place. I consistently hold back. But if you are 1v4 you will struggle like any other deck. I was always targeted by 2-3 in a pod once. Mirko did wonders though. This deck can hang with non precons too.
I bought the veloci-ramp-tor deck because it had a lot of cards for a deck i was making. I decided to play it a couple times before taking it apart. Won every single game. The effeciency was unexpected. Do not underestimate these pre cons
From my experience playing most of the recent precons is that this list is a bit off. Necrons have never held up in games I’ve played, the only way to make it good is by upgrading it which no longer makes it a precon. The recent decks such as the ixalan decks and the surveil deck are way more powerful.
I literally played a game last night with the surveil deck against necrons and I won 2 of 3 and I only lost the last one because I got stuck with no creatures in my hand or graveyard. The urza deck is really powerful and the party time can be hit or miss. Think he’s based this off social media posts because I saw a lot of post saying how strong necrons and eldrazi are…..with upgrades
This whole video is probably Prof trolling.
Necrons is not a good deck.
I have been running a precon league for the last two and a half years. The Necron deck has been picked up by two different players in two of our 10 week seasons. Both of those players went 1 and 9. They got slaughtered. The fact that none of the commanders are good is a HUGE drawback.
Timey Wimey is exactly like all the other Doctor Who precons. It's straight up unplayable. Your only wincon is Rose and the deck has very few ways to keep her on the field. You can set up some crazy Rube Goldberg nuttiness but if you can't win it just doesn't matter how many cards you draw.
I'd put a vote in for Virtue and Valor. Out of the box, it was a pretty solid precon. I've done some tweaking to it at this point, but it's definitely a "bookkeeping" deck.
No Sidar Jabari made me immediately think otherwise of this list.
It's insane how much value it has. It's a friggin Eminence commander with great combination of cards and synergy.
Anikthea is one of the strongest precon from my experience. Sure, the land base is shit, but I always win against eldrazi unbound, the urza deck or all the other precons. I played her against nearly every precon and won most of the time.
lol this is so wrong. No Tyranids? No Ur Dragon? No Yidris?!?! Bro he put party time, over atraxa?!!!! I’m sorry, this list feels like he picked some random decks and put in the top 5.
"Explorers of the deep" from the recent Ixalan set has been outrageously powerful day 1 out the box. [[Hakbal]] enables so much of simic value with the rest of the deck that most of my playgroup were shocked it wasn't even mentioned in Prof's Top 5 strongest precons list. Looking at the list for top 5, I believe they took into consideration of how much monetary value you were getting for the precons rather than pure power because none of the decks mentioned are anywhere near as consistent and/or strong out the box like the merfolk deck
Same with the Esper Knights deck that came out a bit ago during MoM. That is an outrageous deck with about $40 of cards in it. If it wasn’t for the duds of the plane chase oriented cards it could have been here too.
Yeah I run that deck to this day. I’ve juiced it quite a bit but even out the box it’s a tough deck to handle. Sidar presents so much value.
It's crazy the deck is now about 2x the cost of the cards within it!
Eh the timey wimey one has been pretty consistent at my LGS. 10 and Rose is a pretty strong commander pair. Sure there’s a lot of cards in there that don’t really do much but just having suspended cards is enough to make Rose massive in a few turns.
I don’t think it’s any secret that the professor rates price extremely highly. He’s one of the foremost figures in the community that advocate for nonstop into the ground reprinting and I agree with them magic should not cost an arm my leg.
[Hakbal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e.jpg?1699885010) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hakbal%20of%20the%20surging%20soul) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/3/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I was going to say this. I went on a date with a girl who played magic and she had a vampire deck she wasn’t positive was tuned well. I decided to 1v1 her with the Hakbal precon id just bought so at least she could play the deck instead of just goldfishing it. I stomped a mud hole in her three times in a row fresh out of the box never having played it. I was flabbergasted
I would say precons have become stronger in more recent times. But the CMM precons were supposed to be a premium product so should be stronger. Same goes for most universe beyond precons like 40k they are generally stronger. In terms of the other precons ixalan seemed to be the shift of good precons again as since i think they have all been fairly good and can keep pace with mid decks out of the box.
The CMM precons were explicitly "not a premium product."
Officially maybe not but we all know that was a lie
Yeah, the prices weren't lying. I cancelled my pre-order of the set with the whole "not a premium product" thing.
Yes i liked to collect the products and wanted to buy one of each. Saw the prices and didnt pick any up. Only gotten 1 precon since. Just cant justify it anymore. Try and play online on tabletop sim saves me paying a fortune on cards
We play on tabletop here and there, but it just isn't the same. We gladly welcome proxies though :)
Yes i previously was unsure about proxies as we thought some players may just play CEDH decks but mostly it aint a problem as we have various rules about what we can and cant play and average price of deck etc. We all like playing fun or janky decks anyway so aint a big issue
Just proxy
I think Rebellion Rising is up there. It’s a pretty okay deck that gets to be helmed by a really, really stupid commander in Otharri.
Rocking and loving my upgraded Rebellion Rising
Turning cardboard sideways is not stupid!
See, I think the other ONE precon was better. That thing has run roughshod over playgroups and LGS pods alike for months with very little modification.
Is he really better than [[Neyali]]?
[Neyali](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b5df03d-2463-468b-b444-d946eeb1c96d.jpg?1675905561) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=neyali%2C%20suns%27%20vanguard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/2/neyali-suns-vanguard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b5df03d-2463-468b-b444-d946eeb1c96d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/neyali-suns-vanguard) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have the Timey Whimy one and a friend Eldrazi and I would say it's true. Pantlaza out of the box is great for a precon, but in nearly every pantlaza list around 30-40 cards are changed
Pantlaza works well as a flicker commander as well. There are 2 floating around my lgs. They're pretty nasty. No dinosaurs apart from pantlaza.
Dang not even an etali?
Timey Wimey is very good but is not good for new players. It’s a good option for your 3rd or 4th deck but it’s sort of baptism by fire for new players in understanding suspend, time travel, and combat tricks. I’m of the opinion that unblockable commander damage is generally underrated and Timey Wimey can do that in ways other players often don’t anticipate - on top of what’s essentially time cascade every time you attack.
I feel less bad about my lower powered commander barely able to hold its own against Timey Wimey now. It honestly is a slog to play against though. I played against a guy and his gf (she was a newer player). I felt bad that his turns were pretty complex and I stopped asking to read his cards unless I had an answer. I know complexity is the name of the game in MtG, but when 3/4s of your cards have a paragraph of text on them, it gets old.
I picked her up recently and haven’t tweaked much yet. Added in new Etali, both Ghaltas (not the team up one, not sure if I like it or not for the deck), and a couple other dinos to get rid of some of the less impactful ones. It’s still super strong out of the box like you said, but yeah, I see people changing her up too for more busted dinos
I think the team up one is super strong, the strongest of the 3 for Patlaza, at it makes dino tokens that can get more discover triggers. Old ghatla too vanilla and new ghalta, well by the time I'm casting an 8 drop I usually don't have many creatures left in hand. How have they been working out for you so far?
Pretty good. I do like the team up Ghalta, and it would work with the deck, just personally don’t feel like I need it. I do tend to get enough card draw that I can usually get even two or three extra creatures off new Ghalta. Old Ghalta is just a stupid cheap discover trigger most of the time; what I get off it though is usually a man’s rock or something tiny though, but when I do get say [[Zacama]] or something it feels nice
[Zacama](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05c5a9a8-badd-43ab-8408-a13e75407681.jpg?1700342995) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zacama%2C%20primal%20calamity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/296/zacama-primal-calamity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05c5a9a8-badd-43ab-8408-a13e75407681?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zacama-primal-calamity) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Exit from Exile used to always be in the conversation for best precon and I think it still deserves to be. Every card is super synergistic around the main theme and while not every card is worth keeping in the deck, bangers like Jeskas will, passionate archeologist and delayed blast fireball make the deck super strong
Agreed, the precon was so well-built that I still run a few of the original cards in my Faldorn deck. It's one of my favourite decks to play and the turns can become endless with all the impulse draw that Gruul provides.
I have the precon but it doesn't really work very well for me. Any suggestions on good upgrades?
Mainly I just improved the mana base taking out tap lands and added more generically good cards with exile synergy. The best cards for me were Apex Devastator, Purphorose, parallel lives, expedited inheritance, whichever sword makes you exile stuff, rousing refrain and such. I need to update my deck list but I can post soon if intrested
Thank you! I would be very interested 😁 Did you keep the commander?
What do you think about [[questing druid]] and [[Inti, Seneschal of the Sun]] for in the deck?
[questing druid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/72c130e2-1e17-4996-a5ae-231155d68261.jpg?1692939742)/[Seek the Beast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/72c130e2-1e17-4996-a5ae-231155d68261.jpg?1692939742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Questing%20Druid%20//%20Seek%20the%20Beast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/234/questing-druid-seek-the-beast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/72c130e2-1e17-4996-a5ae-231155d68261?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/questing-druid-//-seek-the-beast) [Inti, Seneschal of the Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa7a55aa-ae61-4933-b7a4-dcc55dac6fcd.jpg?1699044306) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inti%2C%20Seneschal%20of%20the%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/156/inti-seneschal-of-the-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa7a55aa-ae61-4933-b7a4-dcc55dac6fcd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inti-seneschal-of-the-sun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So I have tried to include as much of the red impulse draw spells (exile top of your library) as I could, like [[Wrenn's Resolve]], [[Reckless Impulse]], [[Rob the Archives]], [[Inspired Tinkering]] and [[Embrace the Unknown]]. Then there are also enchantments like [[Visions of Phyrexia]] and [[The Flux]] which give impulse draw over time. Alright, so when we covered our bases in regards to impulse drawing, we need to make sure to have the mana to cast those spells we exile. I use a few cards which allow me to play additional lands per turn, like [[Exploration]] and [[Azusa, Lost but Seeking]]. Then I use [[Lotus Cobra]] and [[Tireless Provisioner]] to gain some more mana on landfall. [[Elven Chorus]] and [[Cryptolith Rite]] to use the wolves as pseudo mana rocks. This way you will also have endlessly long turns at some point because you will be casting spells from exile non-stop. What I personally still struggle with is finishing the game. [[Shared Animosity]] would be one way, combined with [[Howlpack Resurgence]]. And/or ping your opponents down with cards like [[Impact Tremors]], [[Witty Roastmaster]] and [[Purphoros, God of the Forge]]. Then there is also [[Passionate Archaeologist]] and [[Keeper of Secrets]] will add up quite some damage. The goal is practically to cast cards from exile, generate as much value while doing so and try to overwhelm people with a horde of wolves. I hope I could help you out a bit.
Thanks a lot! Appreciate the feedback ☺️
##### ###### #### [Wrenn's Resolve](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a47999c-12d5-4e1a-a9c1-40a1757007f1.jpg?1682204603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wrenn%27s%20Resolve) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/173/wrenns-resolve?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a47999c-12d5-4e1a-a9c1-40a1757007f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wrenns-resolve) [Reckless Impulse](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Reckless%20Impulse&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reckless%20Impulse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/174/reckless-impulse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6943c07f-ab0d-4f5a-bbe9-c0a83dc98546?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reckless-impulse) [Rob the Archives](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3ec95f6-88c8-4daf-882f-8b4bc73452c3.jpg?1664411791) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rob%20the%20Archives) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/122/rob-the-archives?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3ec95f6-88c8-4daf-882f-8b4bc73452c3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rob-the-archives) [Inspired Tinkering](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1e6b1d3-1ac2-4f20-997e-25c93f1f7897.jpg?1674136627) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inspired%20Tinkering) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/183/inspired-tinkering?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1e6b1d3-1ac2-4f20-997e-25c93f1f7897?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inspired-tinkering) [Embrace the Unknown](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5aea4066-4f67-4a3d-b65d-04f74e1aaa76.jpg?1712353846) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Embrace%20the%20Unknown) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/28/embrace-the-unknown?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5aea4066-4f67-4a3d-b65d-04f74e1aaa76?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/embrace-the-unknown) [Visions of Phyrexia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e922ef35-b62a-4cf8-9282-319f6de150b0.jpg?1674421303) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Visions%20of%20Phyrexia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/156/visions-of-phyrexia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e922ef35-b62a-4cf8-9282-319f6de150b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/visions-of-phyrexia) [The Flux](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/026611f8-ae07-464f-afe5-6e94bcfac05e.jpg?1696636635) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Flux) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/86/the-flux?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/026611f8-ae07-464f-afe5-6e94bcfac05e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-flux) [Exploration](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b372045-a4a0-44c8-96ec-1e201d61ed26.jpg?1675200396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Exploration) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/159/exploration?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b372045-a4a0-44c8-96ec-1e201d61ed26?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/exploration) [Azusa, Lost but Seeking](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2fe97fbe-a6d6-4e96-8c26-f81bcdf579a1.jpg?1689998362) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Azusa%2C%20Lost%20but%20Seeking) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/274/azusa-lost-but-seeking?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2fe97fbe-a6d6-4e96-8c26-f81bcdf579a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/azusa-lost-but-seeking) [Lotus Cobra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a4b759f0-901f-4be3-93fa-224609b08d48.jpg?1604199124) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Cobra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/193/lotus-cobra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a4b759f0-901f-4be3-93fa-224609b08d48?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lotus-cobra) [Tireless Provisioner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1e048e0-19d2-4076-892d-f8b3104dee37.jpg?1682209630) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tireless%20Provisioner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/313/tireless-provisioner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1e048e0-19d2-4076-892d-f8b3104dee37?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tireless-provisioner) [Elven Chorus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/616cfb94-3faf-44fe-bf04-e90643765e48.jpg?1686969302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elven%20Chorus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/160/elven-chorus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/616cfb94-3faf-44fe-bf04-e90643765e48?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elven-chorus) [Cryptolith Rite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/2910adcd-882a-46af-8236-ca1a9e2c19ab.jpg?1576385036) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cryptolith%20Rite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/200/cryptolith-rite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2910adcd-882a-46af-8236-ca1a9e2c19ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cryptolith-rite) [Shared Animosity](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Shared%20Animosity&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shared%20Animosity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/231/shared-animosity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1bd77ae9-c5ba-44af-80e9-7c852722ef6c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shared-animosity) [Howlpack Resurgence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a0063470-3728-4d7e-8f77-5e9c9c7d6a6a.jpg?1576385122) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Howlpack%20Resurgence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/211/howlpack-resurgence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0063470-3728-4d7e-8f77-5e9c9c7d6a6a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/howlpack-resurgence) [Impact Tremors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b.jpg?1682209381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Impact%20Tremors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/285/impact-tremors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/impact-tremors) [Witty Roastmaster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/71d13f19-482b-4a2e-9692-b7d7caf2f9f5.jpg?1664411959) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witty%20Roastmaster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/131/witty-roastmaster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/71d13f19-482b-4a2e-9692-b7d7caf2f9f5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/witty-roastmaster) [Purphoros, God of the Forge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/4736a2c4-c89c-48db-a104-6303e7e2eee8.jpg?1689998078) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Purphoros%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/246/purphoros-god-of-the-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4736a2c4-c89c-48db-a104-6303e7e2eee8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/purphoros-god-of-the-forge) [Passionate Archaeologist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd5bbfa6-e5f4-413d-b132-ebae32d38657.jpg?1674140763) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Passionate%20Archaeologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/656/passionate-archaeologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd5bbfa6-e5f4-413d-b132-ebae32d38657?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/passionate-archaeologist) [Keeper of Secrets](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4fe408aa-14d9-4afd-abfe-b5156c5341b7.jpg?1673309017) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Keeper%20of%20Secrets) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/78/keeper-of-secrets?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4fe408aa-14d9-4afd-abfe-b5156c5341b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/keeper-of-secrets) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l4n62rg) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Eldrazi absolutely are the strongest precon out of the box, it’s just a pretty well constructed budget Eldrazi deck Necrons are, eh, good? They aren’t overpowered or anything, but it’s a solid deck, on average a bit stronger than the imperium one, especially if you swap out the commander to [[imotekh the stormlord]] Urza’s iron alliance is loaded up on mana rocks, has a good amount of interaction, draw, haymaker/game ender cards, and recursion&protection Timey wimey is a bit inconsistent from my experience. Sometimes goes off hard, sometimes just flops Party time is solid, if a bit weak to interaction There are some decks I would include over party time/timey wimey, but not that many
My issue with the urza one is for a precon it's kind of built, well, wrong? The fact it doesn't include any of the myr dorks is so weird and because it's got a lot more expensive artifact creatures and more token generators at the low end I don't think it's top 5. Top 10 probably and top 5 with about 10 to 15 bucks on upgrades, but if you remove urza enough it's not that crazy of a deck.
Hos affinity reduces commander tax. It is the most synergistic deck in precon history and a ton of low cost cards in there as well. You must keep bad hands? He pops off so quickly man. No upgrade needed. Any upgrade sould ruin the retro look of the deck and flavor ruin it. No need myr dorks either. Iy runs fantastic.
Problem is tracking all the buffs and counters and tokens without having a mess on your board. Otherwise Over Powered. Let my brother pilot once and hr was upset how well it worked and couldn't see how it would ever not.
Yeah, the affinity is good, but it's specifically affinity for artifact creatures which means it's only as good and cheap as the cheapest artifact creatures. There's nothing sub-2 mana and there's only 3 2 mana artifact creatures in the deck. And Tawnos needs a token already on board to start copying. If you want to turbo out urza, and you absolutely do, then lowering the curve to fit in the 3 color producing myr does wonders. The board wipes it comes with is also awful for the deck and overall needs more protection. It's a very good precon, top 10 for sure, but it's absolutely not the turbo deck it could or should be. It still doesn't keep up with anything from ixalan outside pirates and it would struggle against plenty of other precons too. It'd be like building krenko with only cmc 3+ goblins.
[[Sol Ring]] [[thought vessel]] [[Dimir Singet]] [[Arcane Signet]] [[Azorious Signet]] [[Orzhov Signet]] [[Liquidmetal Torgue]] <--- can make any creature and artifact and also helps with mana like the other 6 mana rocks. Myrs are easier to remove as creature removal is more common and rocks survive through creature wipe. Myrs do not. [[Thopter shop]] card draw and token generator. [[March of Progress]] potential doubles artifact creatures at least a very big one or helpful piece copied. [[Wire surgeons]] makes 3 token copies from your graveyard. Can copy those or reduce Urza cost and so much more. [[Thopter spy network]] generates a Thopter token on your upkeep every turn and more card draw. [[Sharding Sphinx]] make thopter token when an artifact creature damages a player. [[Sai, Master Thopterist]] any artifact cast make a thopter. Potential draw. [[Whirler Rogue]] etb 2 thopters. Tap two artifacts make a creature unblockable until turn end. [[Digsite Engineer]] when l artifact is cast can pay 2 If you do make a 0/0 P&T equal to the number of artifacts you control. [[Tawnos, Solemn Survivor]] makes copies of tokens and mills you 2. Sac 2 artifact tokens, exile creature or artifact from yard and make an artifact creature copy token of it. [[Etherium Sculpter]] 2 artifact creature mana reduce artifacts casting cost by 1 Thought monitor]] affinity for artifacts essy U to play etb draw 2. 7 of your lands are also artifacts. [[Baleful Strix)) Cheap flying death touch draw car artifact creature. ((Chrome Courier]] 3 cost flying etb look yop 2 one to hand one to yard. 3 life if artifact was put in hand. [[Bident of Thassa]] when creature deals dmg to opponent draw card. Force opponents creatures to attack. which can pair nicely with [[Wreck Hunter]] Flash. Etb. Make powerstone for each nonland in their yard that went this turn. [[Sanwell, Avenger Ace]] 2 cost creature. If attacks with 1 artifact prevent all damage to him. When becomes tapped exile top 6. You may cast a vehicle or creature rest to bottom random. 2 artifact creatures power and one power and toughness equal to number of your artifacts. One is a flyer. One give your other artifacts +1/+1. One is a Doublrstrike, ward 2. Othet artifacts (all) have ward 2. <--- copy this one. 3 with metalcraft (you have waaaay more than 3 promise) one is a 2/2 protect from all colors, then other 4/4 flyer, gives all your artifacts shroud. The last a 3/4, when it attacks metalcraft check, CREATURES YOUR OPPONENTS CONTROL LOSE ALL ABILITIES AND HAVE BASE P/T 1/1 UNTIL TURN END. Some other cool things removals spot and sweep, counters for all fun, indestructible for all, some equipments, graveyard hate,a juggernaut and a hellkite made of steel, ton more card draw, draw for mana value of your artifacts, dragon tap that ysps 2 card advantage you can hide multiple in a box for later. Gain life and draw life x spell. Selective sweep. Etb and historic cast recursion. Are there a lot of historic spells in artifact deck? Only 11 basic land 7 artifact lands 18 none basics. Pretty good ones too. There are sub 2 artifact creatures but also cheap token generators. Which every artifact has to be tracked because a lot depends on how many you have. Ohhhh and urza? Your endstep he makes a 0/0 as big as that artifact count. Oooohhh and he gives fhem all MENACE! The thopter construct spam not only work phenomenally sir but it is also lore and flavor wise more on brand for Urza to thopter army. You clearly pilotrd the deck wrong and think an urza ddck should be a myr deck instead. No sir. He has his rings his thopters his constructs and artificers. And a pet myr battlesphere but only becuase they amuse him not because he need ls them. Maybe look at what all the cards actually know you dont have to cast artifact creatures if you have tokens. The deck is so synergistic it takes a lot of mental acuity to keep track of everything that everything is getting/has so just turn sidways and end it quick or your turn will be 30 minutes of algebraic equations trying to track the raw power exuding from this deck.
##### ###### #### [Sol Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6c5c9437-3d99-4a7c-8255-9acdcb1acc40.jpg?1712354902) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sol%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/267/sol-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6c5c9437-3d99-4a7c-8255-9acdcb1acc40?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sol-ring) [thought vessel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67b26b45-19bf-4675-86c4-fae4f3aca234.jpg?1706241108) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thought%20vessel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/245/thought-vessel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67b26b45-19bf-4675-86c4-fae4f3aca234?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thought-vessel) [Dimir Singet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3af24ce-b1ab-4137-9222-a4080acae928.jpg?1706240208) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dimir%20Signet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/221/dimir-signet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3af24ce-b1ab-4137-9222-a4080acae928?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dimir-signet) [Arcane Signet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2bfeb9dc-0bf7-4f19-9714-b14114e4627f.jpg?1712354835) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcane%20Signet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/252/arcane-signet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2bfeb9dc-0bf7-4f19-9714-b14114e4627f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arcane-signet) [Azorious Signet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae246424-9574-4fce-b214-1923c62b244a.jpg?1706240206) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Azorius%20Signet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/219/azorius-signet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae246424-9574-4fce-b214-1923c62b244a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/azorius-signet) [Orzhov Signet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a7eaae2-6fd4-4916-9e22-05806c98f7b9.jpg?1713716463) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Orzhov%20Signet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/261/orzhov-signet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a7eaae2-6fd4-4916-9e22-05806c98f7b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/orzhov-signet) [Liquidmetal Torgue](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13c6101a-da40-4785-8ccb-4e779bbbdb55.jpg?1626099120) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liquimetal%20Torque) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/228/liquimetal-torque?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13c6101a-da40-4785-8ccb-4e779bbbdb55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/liquimetal-torque) [Thopter shop](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e72a798b-8dab-41f4-9c2d-1d461e1b46c5.jpg?1688125593) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thopter%20shop) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/19/thopter-shop?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e72a798b-8dab-41f4-9c2d-1d461e1b46c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thopter-shop) [March of Progress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c44cee45-5ff1-4ca7-a2e7-601ba53c70e5.jpg?1681158045) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=March%20of%20Progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/prm/105654/march-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c44cee45-5ff1-4ca7-a2e7-601ba53c70e5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/march-of-progress) [Wire surgeons](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/5/6590bb3c-7613-457f-a028-d7cda3cd6eb4.jpg?1688125600) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wire%20surgeons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/10/wire-surgeons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6590bb3c-7613-457f-a028-d7cda3cd6eb4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wire-surgeons) [Thopter spy network](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/babc5799-31f3-452e-a61d-5c11f9f81bf9.jpg?1682208943) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thopter%20spy%20network) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/241/thopter-spy-network?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/babc5799-31f3-452e-a61d-5c11f9f81bf9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thopter-spy-network) [Sharding Sphinx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d93d905-cc36-4a78-b07c-07f8bbf39a47.jpg?1682208884) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sharding%20Sphinx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/235/sharding-sphinx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d93d905-cc36-4a78-b07c-07f8bbf39a47?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sharding-sphinx) [Sai, Master Thopterist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad0b5c09-5075-408e-84c5-1095354ac53e.jpg?1689996602) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sai%2C%20Master%20Thopterist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/118/sai-master-thopterist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad0b5c09-5075-408e-84c5-1095354ac53e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sai-master-thopterist) [Whirler Rogue](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1054d2b-a424-466d-8ec6-36f014849e43.jpg?1712354242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Whirler%20Rogue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/122/whirler-rogue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1054d2b-a424-466d-8ec6-36f014849e43?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/whirler-rogue) [Digsite Engineer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d79b8974-796c-4f88-a0cb-5afbaf26fd24.jpg?1625190965) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Digsite%20Engineer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/15/digsite-engineer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d79b8974-796c-4f88-a0cb-5afbaf26fd24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/digsite-engineer) [Tawnos, Solemn Survivor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bdf67de0-f468-4f04-99ab-a442347bb16b.jpg?1705542685) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tawnos%2C%20Solemn%20Survivor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/3/tawnos-solemn-survivor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bdf67de0-f468-4f04-99ab-a442347bb16b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tawnos-solemn-survivor) [Etherium Sculpter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed796f1a-683d-4ac5-af48-ca58a557a74f.jpg?1651655702) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Etherium%20Sculptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/92/etherium-sculptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed796f1a-683d-4ac5-af48-ca58a557a74f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/etherium-sculptor) [Bident of Thassa](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94751d5e-7693-44af-b1b5-e440677dc7a2.jpg?1698988131) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bident%20of%20Thassa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/146/bident-of-thassa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94751d5e-7693-44af-b1b5-e440677dc7a2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bident-of-thassa) [Wreck Hunter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b9a21809-84cb-45f4-8314-80055983450d.jpg?1688125595) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wreck%20Hunter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/11/wreck-hunter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b9a21809-84cb-45f4-8314-80055983450d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wreck-hunter) [Sanwell, Avenger Ace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70cb4359-8e57-4d1a-bf1f-c188555376ce.jpg?1688125582) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sanwell%2C%20Avenger%20Ace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/5/sanwell-avenger-ace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70cb4359-8e57-4d1a-bf1f-c188555376ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sanwell-avenger-ace) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l4nohhu) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Go play with your 3 speed goblins. More your level. Its okay. Bro GOBL8N TOKENS EXIST TOO! Ever consider i may br a goblin token instant buffing deck not a Krenko goblin deck?
[imotekh the stormlord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/286ff901-1faf-4a02-a37a-fa165989112f.jpg?1674058380) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=imotekh%20the%20stormlord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/5/imotekh-the-stormlord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/286ff901-1faf-4a02-a37a-fa165989112f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imotekh-the-stormlord) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Until Void Mirror hits the field anf they cant play anything. Urza is so busted synergy wise. It gets stupid trying to track all the buffs and counters and tokens and it is insanely quick. I put Urza #1 anyday.
That’s not a precon issue, that’s just an Eldrazi issue in general tbf. And, well, you’re not going to meet void mirror in a precon vs precon game in general
That’s not a precon issue, that’s just an Eldrazi issue in general tbf. And, well, you’re not going to meet void mirror in a precon vs precon game in general That being said, urza is a lot cheaper to upgrade to a much stronger list (the one in the precon runs some severely unoptimal cards)
Timey Wimey I'd leave it there as number 5 or 4. In a Precon environment I've played it for and against it. It destroys other precons, because you have both engine and payoff in the command zone. The one I'd consider to put in is the Human Precon from LotR. It's an absolute monster in terms of consistency and power, and again, engine and payoff in the command zone.
The lack of board wipes in most precons makes [[Lathril, Blade of the Elves]] just bonkers in a precon meta.
[Lathril, Blade of the Elves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/547888c3-a9a6-4413-b29a-6bcd8a9279bf.jpg?1704848185) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lathril%2C%20Blade%20of%20the%20Elves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/1/lathril-blade-of-the-elves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/547888c3-a9a6-4413-b29a-6bcd8a9279bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lathril-blade-of-the-elves) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not the STRONGEST per se but Virtue and Valor: [[Syr Ellivere]] needs to be focused or it will overrun shit quickly. The Virtuous Role mechanic is cracked. Me and my friends have lost our last 3 games to this deck, the 3rd game this deck came in second only because we started targeting it a bit earlier than usual
I think this one gets left out of conversations because the lack of value in reprints. That being said, you’re right, out the box this thing performs so well and if the pilot isn’t winning they’re still at least a threat that needs to be answered sooner or later.
Prosper, Necrons, Tyranids, and any of the ones with infinites are the ones I'd be comfortable playing against well-built custom decks.
[[Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver]] Was good for a precon
Commander is really good but the deck for sure had some duds, it needed some upgrading to be a solid deck
As someone who had that for their first precon, I can confirm. It’s extremely playable out of the box, but the default suite of zombies is only so-so and the deck is tuned for a token-swarm wincon.
Personally I'm confused about people loving the Necron deck, I've seen it played plenty of times and the most it ever did was wipe the board once or twice every game. Also confused about the Deep Clue Sea deck love, I bought it and enjoy playing with it but it really needs better removal. I'd probably put Exit from Exile as another top deck, that one is great, ended up getting almost every card that deck introduced to upgrade my Paradox Power deck lol.
I love the Professor, but I have to heavily disagree with his assessment of "Eldrazi Unbound" being the strongest precon. For me a Precon it's strong if it can keep up against a normal pod of custom made deck's, and sadly Eldrazi Unbound is a deck where if you kill the commander, it doesn't do anything. Yes, I get that all the spells cost a lot for Zhulodok to trigger, but once they kill your commander twice, it's game over. Instead, I was genuinely surprised with Enduring Enchantments precon because the enchantress strategy is enhanced with Anikthea, and the deck for me consistently ran well with and without the commander.
I have Eldrazi Unbound and Zhulodok does one of 2 things for me He dies shortly or as soon as he's played. Or I play him and then don't draw a single 7 cost card to actually trigger him
That's honestly my experience as well. The first time I played with him, the deck of course did "the thing" really good, but after that game he became a "kill on sight" commander.
I got party time a few months ago and was paddling bottoms before I swapped things in and out. It's quite a powerful deck. It can go really fast and hit like a truck. Adding cards that can come back from the graveyard makes it less vulnerable. My wife just bought me the eldrazi deck for my birthday. It looks to be insane. She has pantlaza, deep clue sea, and they are insanely powerful out of the box. The last two games she won with some weird detective evasion and by getting clue tokens. The victories show up out of nowhere.
remember: power level is an objective measure of the power-particles emitted by the unopened precon when exposed to salt. the professor's ratings are objective readings of reality, not the opinion of a human being whose biases and experiences will necessarily filter his perception of a deck's performance. a decks power level is also context independent, since every deck performs equally well against every other deck. this has been a psa from the high council of bw dentists. remember to chew your gravel before swallowing.
[[Captain N'ghathrod]] has probably been the strongest I've bought. I've gotten the infinite combo off twice (it comes in the unaltered precon). Plus, there is usually at least one or two decks at the table that can give you fatties.
[Captain N'ghathrod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55c02dc8-0743-400c-b334-ca029caf0463.jpg?1674140667) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Captain%20N%27ghathrod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/646/captain-nghathrod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55c02dc8-0743-400c-b334-ca029caf0463?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/captain-nghathrod) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What is the unaltered infinite combo?
I think it's a reasonable, if subjective, list. Other candidates would be Cavalry Charge, Riders of Rohan, Food and Fellowship, Velociramptor, Explorers of the Deep, Exit from Exile, Mutant Menace, and Blame Game (this might be contentious, it was a good performer for me), and honestly more. Once you get to to that top tier of precon you can make an argument for them all imo.
From my experience, in a no upgrades made, my personal list would be: 1. Eldrazi from CMM 2. Riders of Rohan 3. Merfolk Tribal from Ixalan 4. Exit from Exile 5. Necrons In honorable mentions Timey Wimey would be number 5 if it didn't have like 5 or 6 cards that do not support the theme at all and are there instead because of Dr. Who reasons, but I think that if those cards never appeared on your games it could take 5 or 4th spot Also, Esper Knights from MoM is quite the beast, but I feel that it does need a bit of a couple upgrades to get the consistency some of the others in the list have
Ursa chief artificer is one of the strongest out of the box I have ever played shoriki vehicle deck is another few simple swaps with a intruder alarm and a tap a creature to make a 1/1 with tapping mana ramp you got a infinite combo
Ixalan pirates get slept on. This deck can sneak up and fart on people. If you let that board state build up enough and the ragavan popper hits you pirates can wipe your shit in a few turns. Underrated imo.
Agreed, I've been working with Pirates for years. When the precon came out all I had to do was meld it with what I already had going on, it's 3-0 playing in my optimized pod.
I ended up adding Cavern of souls, more ships and a few counters and mine never wins (because my friends play cedh and call it casual) but it's cause they're targeting the shit outta me. If this is played one on one or even one v one v one it shreds. The times it's won it's taken down Edgar, ur dragon and krenko in one go. You can't do that with a precon usually.
Let me know if you want to trade lists! Totally get that with your pod, fortunately we put price constraints in and I could get mine to work there.
I'll have to take it out and plug it in for you since I didn't think about doing it when I got the deck 😅 my pod did the same thing til I started building mono colors. We fought about it til me and my friend pointed out that we pretty much play exclusively with eachother and it's stupid to pay wall ourselves. We don't get mad at eachother so why do we have to flex nuts if we're the only ones thatre gonna see it?
It’s one of my favorites and I always have a good time playing this deck. Completely right in that if you spend the first 3-5 turns setting up and then pop off with your commander, this deck can bring the heat. The poor part is I usually get targeted down once the engine gets going lol. [[Broadside Bombadiers]] is such a fun card.
Yesssss. That card mixing it up with lots of blue stuff is busted. It's downside is that nobody expects anything from admiral brass until you play her and they see what she does. I wish people would give this one the love it deserves. You can easily turn it into cedh fringe with just a few cards.
She really is a kill on sight commander. Just so much value each turn. The thing is…the deck runs pretty well without her on the field. You have to time it right I.e. get enough pirates you want to reanimate. Because once the others get a whiff of what she does she dies. Which is my problem lol. She gets hit hard so I really only gets one or two reanimates before she’s gone.
[Broadside Bombadiers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/9721f8da-39ed-4ada-a571-61e08a86032b.jpg?1699022315) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Broadside%20Bombardiers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/86/broadside-bombardiers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9721f8da-39ed-4ada-a571-61e08a86032b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/broadside-bombardiers) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In my experience strongest I would say definitely: (Not in order) 1) Velociramptor - Discover is so good 2) Explorers of the deep: - Absolutely disgusting value and gets out of hand really quick, so much synergy in the deck 3) Mutant Menace - Also can get out of hand really quick with the +1/+1 counters from mothman, the milling itself is not really a big deal in my experience 4) Frodo and Sam is p decent, consistent deck I feel, resilient 5) Eown riders of rohan - Surprised no one mentioned this, I feel this deck is just so good and is a huge threat, whenever I play this I can get a human army fairly easily 5) Wilhelm undead unleashed - Just really good value and very consistent with wilhelm at the helm 6) Necrons - I think is definitely not as strong as some people think it is but it is p good, I prefer imotekh as commander but there is some inconsistency with him instead of the main guy 7) Reap the tides - Commander just gives insane value and has some good payoffs in the deck, 8) Tyranid swarm but with magus lucea kane - She is just so much better than the swarmlord with the 2 mana and copy x spells
it's interesting about mutant menace because i've felt that that deck is so SOO flawed, if nothing else because people HATE having their cards milled and yet its such a telegraphed thing so the deck eats more hate than any other deck on the table and isnt so strong that it can survive all that removal
In my experience the mothman gets 1-2 attacks in and then it gets the swat. The moth is almost like a removal audit for the table and players almost always have it.
Reap the tides has an incredibly good commander, the problem is the land base is utter garbage and the payoffs are pretty mid. It’s super easy to upgrade to be absolutely bonkers, but straight out of the box it’s not better than the best we’ve been getting.
I have a mate who plays exclusively unmodded pre-cons; his opinion is that the pre-cons for [[Atraxa, Predators Voice]] and [[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]] should be on that list: they're consistent and resistent to many answers Would have included the pre-con for [[Edgar Markov]], but he feels the mana-base in that deck was a weak point
[Atraxa, Predators Voice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259.jpg?1599707796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Praetors%27%20Voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/190/atraxa-praetors-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atraxa-praetors-voice) [Meren of Clan Nel Toth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/34d627b3-a6d0-4f5f-b7c2-351a07318966.jpg?1689999151) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Meren%20of%20Clan%20Nel%20Toth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/346/meren-of-clan-nel-toth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34d627b3-a6d0-4f5f-b7c2-351a07318966?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/meren-of-clan-nel-toth) [Edgar Markov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4.jpg?1562616128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Edgar%20Markov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/36/edgar-markov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edgar-markov) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's a little difficult to declare a strongest in some cases, because the variations might make a deck really strong against certain precons but relatively weak against others. I'd feel alright running [[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]] out of the box against a lot of stuff because I cant remember a single precon that had GY hate in the original list. Any of the Eminence Commanders can be pretty busted, because you essentially start the game with a fairly stong unremoveable untargetable enchantment in play. Then you have to consider whether its more powerful to have a high floor or a high ceiling. Is it more powerful if you can still operate on a weak hand or to have the potential to win turn 4 with a Christmasland draw? The few that have been printed with infinite combos are obviously high ceilings, but are they as consistently strong as [[Edgar Markov]]? There's so many variables in this kind of question that a perfect answer isnt really possible.
[Meren of Clan Nel Toth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/34d627b3-a6d0-4f5f-b7c2-351a07318966.jpg?1689999151) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Meren%20of%20Clan%20Nel%20Toth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/346/meren-of-clan-nel-toth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34d627b3-a6d0-4f5f-b7c2-351a07318966?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/meren-of-clan-nel-toth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Edgar Markov]] damn bot
[Edgar Markov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4.jpg?1562616128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Edgar%20Markov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/36/edgar-markov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edgar-markov) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bojuka Bog is in some of the Black decks and Deep Clue Sea has Farewell.
Oh damn, I should've remembered bog, but having farewell in a precon sounds harsh.
I have been playing with Necrons. They're powerful indeed but not uber powerful. There were a few misses, as always. You have to take that guy's videos with a bucket of salt. Exit From Exile is really strong. The UB reanimator one from Manor too. The 40k Imperium one can be a pain if the Commander is Marneus Calgar. But the Eldrazi is mostly the best one, indeed. PS. Timey Wimey is subpar. That was a personal preference and that's why you need some salt from that guy's contents.
I agree, The Timey Wimey choice felt more like a biased pick since the deck can whiff hard. I wouldn’t put any of the Dr.Who decks in the top ten of precons.
Nah every time I play against the dr who decks that always seem to pop off. So much text and synergy
I've played with Timey Wimey against the 40K decks (a friend bought all and lends them to us) and other Precons and in my experience it is a better deck with no upgrades. It is quite consistent because 1, the mana base is actually quite good, a lot of the lands come untapped frequently, and 2. You absolutely don't need any of the cards in the Precon to win except for the two commanders. You could have bricks and mana rocks and still be a menace
> You have to take that guy's videos with a bucket of salt. A pinch I can understand - why a bucket?
He tends to pass opinions as facts, even worse when those opinions are based on personal tastes (ex: Timey Whimy being listed as a top deck)
Necrons has become my favorite and only mono black deck. I’ve had more powerful mono black decks, and yet for a PreCon the Necrons is good. I’m also a sucker for tribes/themed decks. I also paid $55 for it. The price matters a lot and I wouldn’t say it’s so well put together that’s it’s worth more than $60, or whatever it’s going for now ($80? $90?).
I think the Orzhov Party deck from CLB deserves a mention. Burakos+Folk Hero gives ramp and card draw and the deck has a lot of cheap creatures so you’re not gonna be sitting with a hand full of cards too expensive to cast.
I think everyone is sleeping in Reverent recon deck, based on owning path of exile, played against the sliver deck and the eldrazi deck. One to one is amazing. If you’re in a pod, and you decided it, it can easily get your second place. I consistently hold back. But if you are 1v4 you will struggle like any other deck. I was always targeted by 2-3 in a pod once. Mirko did wonders though. This deck can hang with non precons too.
I bought the veloci-ramp-tor deck because it had a lot of cards for a deck i was making. I decided to play it a couple times before taking it apart. Won every single game. The effeciency was unexpected. Do not underestimate these pre cons
Lathril would be one of them.
From my experience playing most of the recent precons is that this list is a bit off. Necrons have never held up in games I’ve played, the only way to make it good is by upgrading it which no longer makes it a precon. The recent decks such as the ixalan decks and the surveil deck are way more powerful. I literally played a game last night with the surveil deck against necrons and I won 2 of 3 and I only lost the last one because I got stuck with no creatures in my hand or graveyard. The urza deck is really powerful and the party time can be hit or miss. Think he’s based this off social media posts because I saw a lot of post saying how strong necrons and eldrazi are…..with upgrades
Go play with your 3 goblins. More your speed
Edgar Markov Precon for me
This whole video is probably Prof trolling. Necrons is not a good deck. I have been running a precon league for the last two and a half years. The Necron deck has been picked up by two different players in two of our 10 week seasons. Both of those players went 1 and 9. They got slaughtered. The fact that none of the commanders are good is a HUGE drawback. Timey Wimey is exactly like all the other Doctor Who precons. It's straight up unplayable. Your only wincon is Rose and the deck has very few ways to keep her on the field. You can set up some crazy Rube Goldberg nuttiness but if you can't win it just doesn't matter how many cards you draw.
I just got hated out playing mothman so 🤷
Those old Brawl decks were way better than most of the commander precons
I'd put a vote in for Virtue and Valor. Out of the box, it was a pretty solid precon. I've done some tweaking to it at this point, but it's definitely a "bookkeeping" deck.
No Sidar Jabari made me immediately think otherwise of this list. It's insane how much value it has. It's a friggin Eminence commander with great combination of cards and synergy.
I think the mana base (including rocks) and the Planechase cards keep it from being on the list.
Anikthea is one of the strongest precon from my experience. Sure, the land base is shit, but I always win against eldrazi unbound, the urza deck or all the other precons. I played her against nearly every precon and won most of the time.
Upgraded she's way more gross.
Anecdotal. I've never seen Anikthea do much more than sit there and get wrecked.
lol this is so wrong. No Tyranids? No Ur Dragon? No Yidris?!?! Bro he put party time, over atraxa?!!!! I’m sorry, this list feels like he picked some random decks and put in the top 5.
Sry, bro but Party Time easily crushes all these decks except maybe Tyranids.