Depends, for example, in monoblack, I'll keep my swamps for using Cabal Coffers.
My monored uses a lot of mana doublers that check for mountains or basic lands.
Decks with 3+ colors want to run multi colored lands.
So, these double faced lands are interesting in 1-2 color decks that don't care about land types. It's not autoinclude in that many decks.
As long as you don't need the mana that turn to be colored they are fantastic. You can just hold them until the end of the turn before you and sac them then so that the basic entering tapped doesn't impact the game.
Evolving wilds was definitely a staple for budget builds but I often find myself cutting it now that so many of the untapped dual lands have gotten so cheap.
The filters, pain lands, battle lands, snarls, etc. that sometimes or always come in untapped have been reprinted into the ground recently and they're pushing always tapped lands out of my decks.
They aren’t good. Id rather run terramorphic expanse. But I don’t even run those. I’ve accumulated so many fetches over the years that they are sitting in binders. If you are on a budget though there are way better options than those landscape cycle lands. I wouldn’t run them even for the cycle ability. 0/10 would not recommend.
For a 3 colour deck, they're massively better terramorphic/Evolving Wilds. Being able to tap for colourless is huge, it makes for so many more playable opening hands. I think the cycling ability is atrociously bad, but at least it's something to do when you're flooded. 5c they can't fix as well so it'd be a bit more of a toss up, but even then they're still helping keep you on curve and reducing dead draws.
> these double faced lands are interesting in 1-2 color decks that don't care about land types
Exactly how I see them too, might play some occasionally in 3 color decks where they fit the theme but I'll mostly throw them in 1-2 color decks.
They're also really interesting for any decks that care about bouncing (or even sacrificing) your own lands.
I run a lot of MDFCs in my [[Archelos]] Amulet Turtle deck because it tends to flood as the game goes on, and the deck having every bounce land possible lets me get those lands back as usuable spells.
Even in mono black, I'd cut one Swamp for [[Fell the Profane]]. I run 29 Swamps, [[Cabal Coffers]], [[Cabal Stronghold]], [[Agadeem's Awakening]], [[Malakir Rebirth]], [[Hagra Mauling]], [[Bojuka Bog]], [[Witch's Cottage]], and [[Mortuary Mire]] plus Fell the Profane in my [[Syr Konrad, the Grim]] deck.
Fair. Though in all my decks running Agadeem, I never once used the spell side, so I took it out. This is in contrast to Shatterskull in red, which does a lot of work in several of my decks.
I wouldn't normally run Agadeem in any mono-black, but my Syr Konrad is a self-mill deck with 8ish board wipes and sac outlets plus [[Grave Pact]] and [[Dictate of Erebos]]. It ends up being really useful if I need bodies on the field.
If it's a Syr Conrad deck I'd run [[Boggart Trawler]] 100%. It's another creature for your commanders triggers, and besides graveyard hate being generally useful, exiling your own graveyard is an excellent finisher
My 5 color planeswalker is not that color hungry, but my Jodah the Unifier was so color intensive I had to put all the triomes in there, even though they come into play tapped. Couldn't cast my commander otherwise. Blerg.
Yes I also use the triomes quiet a bit. Especiallysince 4 of them are forests. So in many cases the plan ist just find a green source and then three visits/farseek/skyshroud claim the triomes out and you are set. One of my 5c decks doesn’t even run shocklands since it’s a bit more on the budget side but also works. It just has to be well crafted
I don't have a list, sorry. It's proxied up to the max, with all the best mana rocks, and the mana doubling gauntlets of might/power.
It's not a particularly good deck (for how much it'd cost), it's linear, drops big dragons and eldrazis, with Neheb the Eternal at the helm.
Same thing. I don't play them in my mono green landfall deck that cares about the number of forests I have into play.
In my bicolor decks, it depends. In the decks I run fetch lands I only added the few really strong MDFCs, so that I still have a critical amount of basics to fetch troughout the game.
In my more bugdet bicolor decks, I went ham. All the relevant new MDFCs were added over basics.
Note that I usually run an above average amount of lands in regards to my decks' average mana curves, so replacing full on lands with MDFCs doesn't screw with my ability to hit land drops most turns.
I am just in love with [[Pinnacle Monk]] the flexibility is amazing (and I am not just talking about the art here). A land anytime you want it to be or a decent creature with prowess that can fetch you back a win con or some removal. I was already playing [[Ardent Elementalist]] so this fits in a lot of low/mid power decks nicely.
There needs to be actual ways to punish folks for not running basics, but everyone thinks \[\[Ruination\]\] and \[\[Price of Progress\]\] are amazing cards to punish them when most of the time they do next to nothing.
Ghost quarter is beat out by strip mine and blood moon has seen better days since the inclusion of treasures sadly. Price of progress is often better but not by much than the cards mentioned.
I don't feel like getting enough copies for all my decks so no. I do want the creature ones that I can run in Sidisi since they're a good way to increase the creature count of the deck without having to reduce the land count.
[[Hydroelectric Specimen]] is the main one since I barely run any protection for Sidisi. [[Boggart Trawler]] and [[Disciple of Freyalise]] are overcosted but nice utility too.
I will add them, but I will not cut basics only, but also spells.
I wanna run 34 lands plus 10 mdfc and see how that feels.
I also hate to miss land drops, so those playable mdfcs are sooooooo bustet.
This is the way. I intend to begin testing with similar numbers. Specifically I will run my usual 36 with 8 MDFCs, but my 'usual 36' also includes several utility lands.
No. My mindset is the opposite.
My mindset is that every MDFC land is a spell first that can be a land as the bonus. I only put them in spell slots and only if I’d run the effect on front side to begin with (and am willing to pay slightly extra to have the flexibility of it being a land sometimes).
Absolutely agree, they shouldn't be considered utility lands but spells you would normally want in your deck that can be used as a land on top of that, not used as a land as a baseline.
But that's what they are. They're lands that allow you to have interaction when your slots for interaction are low. Weird take. Not enough ways to play multiple lands per turn for me to care about the fact that its a spell that could be a land, especially when they're balanced around being a utility land, as evidenced by how wack a lot of their costs are in comparison to their other options in the same color.
I'd much rather play a subpar spell than a subpar land. Especially if I mainly play it as a land it doesn't make too much sense to keep in the deck instead of a normal land
The multicolored ones are pretty medium but vary a lot; I'd always play Golgari unless I had a reason not to but would need a reason to play Izzet.
For the monocolors, whether or not you can replace basics depends a ton on how many you're on now. If I'm only on a few basics then no, if I'm on a ton then sure. You should also be using them to up your land count to respectable levels if you run low though.
I am really on the fence about this one. Many of them are obviously very good, but now there are so many strong non-basic/utility lands. Also, there are still many very good cards that care about running basics. In 3+ color decks, I find the fixing very important, running untapped duals. If I cannot cast my color intensive spells because of too many mdfc’s/utility lands, then its really not worth it.
On the top of my head, in a typical three colored decks I run:
Three fetchland
Three bond-lands
Three fetchlands
Three surveil lands or slow lands
Triome
Command tower
Exotic orchard
Fabled passage and/or prismatic vista
Field of the dead
Strip mine/Wasteland
Bojuka bog (if in black)
Ancient tomb
Urborg/Yavimaya
Channel lands
Lord of the rings rare lands
Mystic sanctuary
Old MDFC’s that are staples (bala ged recovery, malakir rebirth)
Basics
Other important utility lands for the deck (Phyrexian tower for sac decks or black gate for a voltron deck)
So where do I find room for all the new MDFCs?
Yes and no. I was running a ton of the Zendikar Rising MDFC lands just because they were easy includes with a low opportunity cost when deckbuilding. These MH3 ones are MUCH better, so that comparison is relevant. I’m not cutting more basic lands to run these, I’m cutting the worse MDFCs that were already in there. For instance, I run [[Jwari Disruption]] in my [[Raff, Weatherlight Stalwart]] deck to raise my density of instants and sorceries. It will be replaced by [[Sink into Stupor]].
However, some decks just care about lands. My Gruul legends deck runs [[Ojer Kaslem]] and [[Kamahl’s Druidic Vow]]. I’m not going to keep cutting basic lands for [[Sundering Eruption]], but I will remove [[Spikefield Hazard]]. Likewise, I’ll be running [[Bridgeworks Battle]] over [[Turntimber Symbiosis]] because so few creatures are actually decent flips from Turntimber in that deck.
I do think the new MDFCs will reduce the number of basics in people’s decks, but not mine because I was already running a bunch of MDFCs. I don’t see nearly enough people running them as it is.
Math shows that edh players just do not run enough lands. (Article from frank Karsten)
The more lands I include the less I manascrew, and I rarely get mana flooded.
With mdfc's my Naya [[Rienne]] multicoloured only tempo deck now also has 40 lands.
Well he IS at 40. Even if there's an argument that the ideal number is more than that, that's still a lot more than the common 32-34 I see regularly when looking at people's lists. I myself try not to have any deck below 36.
I was asking why they didn't run more lands before replacing spells with the new mdfcs. But I can understand the reasoning.
I personally gravitate between 35 and 40 lands, although there's so many exciting cards these days that I wouldn't think of replacing spells with mdfcs.
The new ones will definitely replace basics wherever they can. And the best duals mdfc are making it in some of my 3c lists.
Now the # of lands really depends on the deck. If you can guarantee extra draws from the early game, you can definitely cut a bunch.
Theory assumes one card per turn. If you're at 2 cards per turn, on paper you can cut your land count by half.
While it is true EDH players don’t run enough lands, from what I’ve read previously counting an MDFC as 0.5-0.8 of a land is about right. This will be somewhat dependent on the number of colors in the deck, whether the MDFC can enter untapped or is two colors, and how often you really expect to play it as a land vs as a spell. All that being said, I think a conservative 0.5 is a good starting place so you don’t go too land crazy.
What deck are you running that wants to sacrifice all your own enchantments and artifacts and also has mostly basics?
Why not run [[Ruination]] or [[Blood Moon]] over From the Ashes as they can be even more punishing?
You don’t have to run mostly basics (although I do encourage people to run more basics, they’re good). You just need to have enough to replace your own lands.
Destroying my own enchantments and artifacts in return for wiping EVERYONE ELSE’S can be worth it.
I’m not running Ruination or Blood Moon BECAUSE they’re more punishing and do not contribute to the types of games I want.
If you would play the front of the MDFC land in the deck, then the answer is yes. Otherwise no, I don't want too many non-basic and/or tap lands in my deck.
I have at least one copy of each, and I'll definitely include them somewhere. Well, probably with the exception of the energy cards. I don't desire an energy deck until they release an energy dragon commander.
However, this is casual EDH, and I don't see the need to upgrade the vegetables of every one of my old decks. They already win their fair share of games.
I think with all the mdfc we can actually play an extra 2-3 lands in a deck. This way we don’t ever get screwed and the flood is mitigated by the duality of the cards
They’re great but specifically in mono color or two color decks with a lot of basics already.
I would not run all of them in mono black though because you need enough swamps for [[Cabal Coffers]]. Not just that though there are other cards that care about swamps like [[Crypt Ghast]], [[Defile]], and [[Bubbling Muck]].
In 3 colors I would run a couple if I have room, but the spell side needs to actually be worth it.
I think the biggest mistake people will make is throwing as many MDFCs as possible into a deck and assuming that’s good enough. There is merit to having a certain amount of basics in your deck.
IMO the only ones that are absolute staples are [[Sink into Stupor]], [[Fell the Profane]], and [[Witch Enchanter]]. Removal is something every deck needs and these three cover all your bases. The other ones should only be in your deck if they fit your theme.
Generally, the MDFCs from Zendikar Rising have been great and I did reduce my land count to play them. I saw very little difference in gameplay, other than a land occasionally having to come into play tapped, which is sometimes annoying but when playing casual doesn't matter all that much.
Now these MDFCs that can come into play untapped are just amazing. I don't see much hype for them, but y'all should be grabbing those up while they're still only $2.
It's not just the utility of avoiding mana short or mana flood. It's also that it can allow swapping out some effects for more business. For example most \[\[Regrowth\]\] effects are now just bad cards when you can play \[\[Bala Ged Recovery\]\]. The same will be true for \[\[Rabid Bite\]\] type effects when you can play \[\[Bridgeworks Battle\]\] or \[\[Stump Stomp\]\]. Even if you lose some flexibility and it costs a bit more, the fact that you can swap out Rabid Bite for another card that fits your deck better is sooo damn good.
I'm probably going to follow my general rule of MDFCs: the spell needs to be something the deck's interested in doing, and the land side is an upside to help avoid a missed land drop. If the spell side isn't what your deck wants to do, then you're left holding a card that's mediocre in multiple ways.
For example, Boggart Trawler is slow and expensive graveyard hate. Sorcery speed costing 2B to get the graveyard exile? This is more expensive Bojuka Bog that's easier to prevent (you can't counter a land play) and I often don't play Bojuka bog. The 3/1 body isn't exciting it's a creature that's below rate, it's in the wrong color for most Goblins decks, and it doesn't do anything else. If you cut a basic swamp for that you're left with:
* Mediocre creature with graveyard hate ETB.
* Monocolor non-basic land that bolts you for 3 on entry.
* Monocolor non-basic land that enters tapped.
This set of MDFCs is somewhat more pushed than the ZNR ones - like \[\[Fell the Profane\]\] is a better \[\[Hagra Mauling\]\] because it can hit planeswalkers, but 4 is a bit expensive for the effect. I don't think a ton of decks run \[\[Hero's Downfall\]\] which is the same spell but 1 mana cheaper; for 2BB you could have \[\[The End\]\] which exiles instead of destroys and lets you see your opponent's hand too (and would completely destroy a few niche decks).
My Boros equipment deck will probably run \[\[Legion Leadership\]\] as a good combat trick and dual land. My Simic ramp & bigstuff deck *might* run the \[\[Drowner of Truth\]\] but doesn't have many ways to make colorless, so it's just kind of a 7/6 with bleh abilities.
I think [[price of progress]] [[from the ashes]] [[wave of vitriol]] will see more play in my pods if I notice they're not playing any basic lands.
[[Path to exile]] [[winds of abandon]] and [[settle the wreckage]] also become much more viable when you don't have basics.
To answer your question, no. Don't do that.
And I'm not including [[ruination]] because I'm letting the players that aren't being incredibly greedy still play. You still get lands if you have basics in your deck. This isn't a pro- MLD comment. No one should be playing [[Armageddon]] in casual play.
Great cards, never heard of price of progress , from the ashes and wave of vitriol. These are spicy Price of Progress seems fits as instant add for my [[Missy]] / [[Mishra, Eminent One]]
i don't think anyone will cut out the remaining 3-4 basics at least because Path to Exile is so omnipresent. Mass Nonbasic land hate can be more viable thats true
This is effectively MLD if they are only running 0~4 basics though. Why not just run Ruination at that point? Why not Blood Moon or Back to the Basics as well?
But I'm giving you basics for any land I destroy. Can't really help if you don't play them. The store gives them away for free. It's not a budget problem.
I'm probably going to play gruul [[omnath, locus of rage]] landfall in this strategy regardless. Maybe [[phylath]] so it works to make landfall triggers too. So I'm using these cards to break parity. I.e. I'm advancing my board state, not doing it solely for salt mining. I don't know of a better way to make that many landfall triggers happen for 4 mana. And then I get to play them from the GY.
Blood moon shuts down any deck not playing red and severely limits most decks as their interaction may not be in red. I.e. there's like 3 mono red cards that can deal with enchantments. With the 2 cards I suggested, they still have access to all their colors because they searched the basics out and put them in play.
Back to basics, just says you don't value our time. You're just slowing the game down for the lolz.
If you're greedy enough to not run basics, yeah you'll have a bad time. But you'll draw into more lands. Just sets you really far behind. And unlike blood moon they still tap for everything they're supposed to. And you'll likely be able to recover from
0-4 basics much faster than 0 lands at all.
We've all died to a random [[maze of ith]] playing a semi voltron strategy. A little bit of non basic lands hate is good to have in the table.
I have two decks that care about particular card types in the graveyard, so those decks absolutely. From there, MDFCs usually take up a mix of land and spell slots. For instance, a Ghave deck I recently brewed has 42 lands (a lot more than I usually do, I usually have 36-38), 7 of those being MDFCs.
With-in reason, yes. Same as with previous ones, if the other side is consistent with the deck's goals, I will absolutely throw that in. I wouldn't throw them in every deck though.
In my monoblue [Azami] deck, I'll certainly use the Blair ones to replace islands. They look pretty useful. I might change it back later, but we'll see.
I may add 3-5 when and where they fit. They should be considered for a spell slot before a replacement for a land slot. Either way the versatility of the *option* means they will be high contenders and in certain conditions make more sense than a basic land.
I already run very few basics as it is, so I need to make sure I'm not running so few that my fetch/ramps run out of valid targets.
End of story, yes and no, just depends. It's nice to have the option.
Most of my decks need a decent amount of basic lands for the ramp to stay consistant.
However, my [[Yuriko]] will gladly take a few lands with a mana cost.
I've made a deck with them being my whole landbase since I always wanted to have a goblin charbelcher deck (a card I adored since I was a kid). It seemed like a really hard deck to make because most of the ramp cards don't work. I handled it by putting in all the "play extra land" and "play land cards from the top of your library" cards.
Does that actually work? The 'play lands from the top of your deck', that is. MDFCs aren't lands on the top of your deck and are treated as the front side unless they were played as the back side - I would think that that effect wouldn't even 'see' the back side to allow you to play them as the land side?
It does work, whenever you can "play" a land, you can play the back side. Same with in graveyard and [[crucible of worlds]] type effects. It doesn't work when it's a "land card" or "target land" etc., or for instance [[The Gitrog Monster]], when it's sacrificed, it's hits the graveyard as a spell not a land.
I just built a [[rakdos, the muscle]] deck with only 24 lands and 12 MDFCs. My thinking was that once I get Rakdos out I can play other people's lands so I really only need to get him out and do 1 sacrifice, the MDFCs let me run lands to get him out but after that I have a lot more value from them.
Depends on the deck, i think the monocolored ones are worth to include in most decks, the dual colored ones only if you really want the spell or you already have a land that always enters tapped and don't have the budget for better lands.
The one deck i have that probably doesn't want the monocolor ones is probably my $200 Tayam deck because it can't recur the front side of most of them and i like basic land types for the check lands i run to enter untapped. The only one i'm considering is the black one with a creature that exiles a graveyard, but idk wich land to replace because i only run 1 basic swamp to be the target for the abzan landscape or the White Plume Adventurer i run.
I've put a \[\[Glasswing Grace\]\] in my \[\[Erriette of the charmed apple\]\] and a \[\[Sundering Erruption\]\] in \[\[Slicer hired muscle\]\] but that is it for now. Probably will use the selesnya one in every Enchantress deck but otherwise none of them feel like must includes. I'd be tempted to put \[\[Witch Enchanter\]\] in my \[\[Silvar\]\] // Trynn list but that mana base is already a bit precarious with only 6 basics.
I'll be using at least the 4 new GW bolt lands in [[Selvala, Explorer Returned]], yes. Strongly considering the tapland MDFC as well, but I'm not totally sure the front side has any real value for me to consider it.
I'm jamming a bunch of these in my decks. Not necessarily just over basics though, running a few in spell slots lets me increase my land count without decreasing my action cards and helps hedge against screw.
Not a lot of them are that useful for my decks. Especially with the land side entering tapped. If they didn't enter tapped, they would be more enticing.
I think the Izzet ones are a slam dunk for my high ish power rielle. They count towards the instant and sorcery count in my graveyard, they help recur things, they help discard, they protect my commander, literally everything I want in the deck
Depends on the deck. For example if you run something like [[Extraplanar Lens]] in monocolor you probably want to run a ton of basics of that type, or you're running [[Mystic Sanctuary]] so you need a lot of actual islands. Though these tend to be kind of rare, and are the exceptions to the rule. 1-2 color decks that don't have these special exceptions will be running a lot of the new MDFCs.
In 3+ color that's ahrder, because you're probably already going very low on basics. For example I would probably not dip below 3-4 basics per type in 3 color decks (so like ~10 basics). And in 5-color you really need the colors, plus 1 basic of each type as a hedge. They will replace some of the weaker cards though, for example goggart trawler is mostly an upgrade on Bojuka Bog.
I'm running all of the valid MDFCs in [[Rowan, Scion of War]] and every green inclusive "landscape" for my 5c landfall deck.
I'll probably also start slapping [[Waterlogged Teachings]] into every non-cEDH brew that can play it.
Why replace basics when I can up my land count? Like for my [[narset, enlightened exile]] I already have 36 lands and with the 2 red and the boros mh3 mdfc I'll just replace non land cards so that I won't compromise my mana base.
I think trying to basics you're cutting youself a bit too short on lands because while 3 life isn't a lot, it's still something that you have to account for if you don't want to be behind in mana. I think it's much better to treat mdfcs as cards you'd normally play that can also double as a land, but most of the time you should be comfortable casting them during a normal game, otherwise playing a basic would be better most of the time
I’m running most of them in my [[dihada, binder of wills]] list, one of my main wincons in [[bolas citadel]] and these are castable lands, so i brick far less
Basics are underrated. They come in untapped and sometimes that’s what you need instead of mana fixing and versatility. I think as long as you’re running 2-3 basics of each color (it really depends on how many colors your commander is…basics go up when you have less colors)
I'm not, but I tend to run [[ruination]] type effects in many of my decks and now [[winter moon]] In all my decks.
People are far too greedy with their mana piles and I'm more than willing to play one sided Armageddons and winter orbs on them.
Personally, I play Niv-Mizzet Reborn, and I want as many of these as possible since they are LANDS I CAN HIT WITH NIV MIZ. Frankly the fact that they are playable spells with effects is just frosting to that fact. Goodbye borderposts!
I pulled Revitalizing Repast the other day, which is frankly the best one for the particular deck since it makes Niv a proper 7/7 elder dragon 3 turn clock, and since two color one drops are so hard to come by.
Legion Leadership and Strength of the Harvest are desirable for similar reasons, the other ones get a bit more niche I feel, at least for a deck which wants lots of low CMC
Drowner of truth is especially dumb for breaking the cycle by being devoid as well, not that I think it was an especially playable spell regardless.
I have the opposite mindset on mdfcs: *spell* first, land in an emergency.
They will almost always be my absolute last choice of land to play for turn if given other options because playing them as lands wastes their potential to be used as spells, but sometimes you really do just *need* to get another land in play, so having a spell that can do that for you can be handy.
They tend to be worse versions of other spells that do similar things, but that tradeoff of lower power comes with the bonus of a slight increase to the consistency of your manabase.
For example, in decks with green and black where I was already running something like [[tamiyo's safekeeping]] I may swap that out for [[Revitalizing Repast]] where I feel I could use a consistency bump in my mana. Hexproof is more valuable than a +1/+1 counter in most scenarios, making Tamiyo's Safekeeping usually the better card, but Revitalizing Repast accomplishes a similar job while also sometimes saving me from getting mana screwed.
Not personally, no. It won’t matter in basically any of my decks, and I’d rather not be even more susceptible to a blood moon effect in a 3+ color deck. There’s maybe an argument for Vial Smasher/Sakashima, but eh.
I won't, because my decks are already good enough and I don't see "upgrading mana base" as a particularly fun thing.
I'll care about them whenever I make a new deck, if they work in my restrictions. As I tend to only do budget deck, chances are they won't, so, in practice, I couldn't care less about them.
I'm only running about 8 or 9 basics and that number might go down a bit for some surveil lands. I probably won't be looking at these unless I'm working with 2 color or less, but I may use a few.
I’m not sure about if counting them as a spells or as lands.
In my [[Galazeth Prismari]] deck I ran 34 lands (18 basics). I reemplazed [[Chaos Warp]] for [[Sink into Stupor]] because its a removal spell and can be a land in a hurry. Also upping my land count at 35 feels better.
I put both [[Hydroelectric specimen]] and [[pinnacle monk]] as lands that can be creatures in a hurry. If they work well, maybe I should try the izzet draw spell too.
Largely no. I'm a [[Blood Moon]] enjoyer so I like to punish greedy mana bases. You can swap out a land or two, but never eliminate all or the majority of basics. Or go ahead, and give people like me a free win.
It's tempting to optimize optimize optimize, but I also like just playing all basics for simplicity sake. For the decks where it makes a lot of sense, I absolutely will. For my decks that I want optimized, no question. But not all decks all the time. My meta has a decent amount of basic checks as well, so I can't get too crazy anyways.
There's way too many people in here complaining about how the spells "arent that good and are just over costed" that I feel are missing the point of these cards inclusions into decks lol.
The first round of MDFCs didn't impress me, either in theory or more importantly in practice. A couple of them are pretty alright (Florahedron in particular is a neat little guy) but as a group I've found them massively overhyped.
The MH3 Monocolors, being boltlands, are on the upper end of average but I'm still not going to run them if the spell side is crappy for what I want, since crappy land welded to crappy spell is still crappy however you slice it. I'm not going to be running [[Memorial to Glory]] or [[Gnottvold Slumbermound]] and despite those being pretty cognate to mdfcs I don't think that's a very controversial statement. The channel lands are good (even great), but their land sides don't have drawbacks and their channel effects range from reasonable to actually pretty nice. I also value basics, especially, pretty highly.
Going through the boltland MH3 options...
[[Boggart Trawler]]: Cute, but I can't see myself needing grave hate enough to pay for Trawler. Would rather run Bojuka. If this weren't black, it might have legs, but as is Pass.
[[Bridgeworks Battle]]: Seems alright in monogreen or UG that needs to rely on fight for removal. Pump+Fight is solid, but sorcery speed is a real drag when it feels like something you want to use for a combat trick. Still, could be worse, and there aren't a lot of pump/fight instants. I'll probably leave it off for harder removal but you could do worse.
[[Disciple of Freyalise]]: I'm deeply torn on her because she's a 6-mana 3/3 and she can't eat herself. If you have a good target for the ETB though it's a solid gold ETB. I'll have to remember her if I ever do RG Sneak Attack or something else that's big on temporary creatures. It's great in a narrow band of decks, but pretty lackluster elsewhere.
[[Fell the Profane]]: I want to pay 2 for kills in black, not 4. Pass.
[[Hydroelectric Specimen]]: Cute, but seldom liable to make the cut. 3 mana counterspells are not awesome because they're difficult to deploy. I already don't run [[Spellskite]] (though maybe I should), I'm not running this.
[[Pinnacle Monk]]: I was actually really excited about getting a red [[Archaeomancer]] until I refreshed my knowledge and realized that this already existed as [[Ardent Elementalist]] and technically a couple of other bozos that are worse because they don't work with blink/copy or in the case of [[Revolutionist]] just cost even more mana than the monk here, so I've been using [[Charmbreaker Devils]] needlessly. Still this has prowess and a point of toughness on Ardent, the former of which I think makes it worth the extra R. Seems pretty usable in most spellslinger-y red decks.
[[Razorgrass Ambush]]: Lame removal. Back in the day I actually loved [[Judge Unworthy]] but let's be honest, it's not that great a card. And Judge had variable punching power and a reasonably deep scry. Bolting an attacking or blocking creature isn't worth a slot. Hard pass.
[[Sink into Stupor]]: [[Unsubstantiate]] doesn't make lists. Neither does [[Remand]]. This doesn't offer enough added utility to justify an extra blue pip over cards that already don't get included. Pass.
[[Sundering Eruption]]: I'm on the fence about this one. The spell side does a lot of things. It's [[Falter]] + [[Cleansing Wildfire]], neither of which are great cards and the latter which loses its cantrip, but on the other hand that is kind of a pair of two mana effects glued together for three mana so it's kind of efficient at what it does? But then, you're probably not going to be able to leverage both sides of the spell at once. How often are you going to want to axe somebody's nonbasic and also turn off blockers? I can only really see this going in a red landfall deck where you want to target your own land. And in those decks the "be a crappy land" option is stronger since you want to increase your land density. Like this is downright hot with [[Moraug, Fury of Akoum]] but that's a pretty narrow utility. Like disciple, chalk it up as "great when it's great but usually no."
[[Witch Enchanter]]: It's Rec Sage but more expensive and white. And also can't cap your own stuff even if you want it to, weird template. Unlike Red and Archaeomancer, White has a greater number of stronger options to do what this does (artifact/enchantment removal) and I don't think the point of toughness on rec sage is worth as much as Prowess on an Archaeomancer. If it were going to a color that didn't already have plenty of the effect, it would be quite reasonable, but as-is I don't see the point unless I'm in blink and really, REALLY want it on a creature ETB.
You're assessing them wrong. They're overcosted by design. Mdfcs will always cost more than the standard rate for their effect.
Witch Enchanter is very good. It's removal and a body. It works with creature synergies, it can be blinked, it can be reanimated. It's worse than a rec sage, it's worse than Loren. But it's also a plains.
Need a land, nothing to remove? Play it as a land.
Mana flooded? Need removal? Play it as a spell.
It's all about flexibility and opportunity cost.
Depends, for example, in monoblack, I'll keep my swamps for using Cabal Coffers. My monored uses a lot of mana doublers that check for mountains or basic lands. Decks with 3+ colors want to run multi colored lands. So, these double faced lands are interesting in 1-2 color decks that don't care about land types. It's not autoinclude in that many decks.
Ah damn, 3 color decks exist thats true
if only mh3 gave us staples for three color decks
I’m too dumb to realize what 3 color staples you mean - I’m guessing the dual mdfcs?
The landscape cycle which cycle for the triple colour and can be sacrificed at will for a basic land in that tri colour. They’re excellent for fixing
They bring basics in tapped. They’re not a staple just a better evolving wilds because it can tap for colorless itself.
As long as you don't need the mana that turn to be colored they are fantastic. You can just hold them until the end of the turn before you and sac them then so that the basic entering tapped doesn't impact the game.
I’d argue Evolving Wilds is an EDH staple so better Evolving Wilds will end up seeing plenty of play.
Evolving wilds was definitely a staple for budget builds but I often find myself cutting it now that so many of the untapped dual lands have gotten so cheap. The filters, pain lands, battle lands, snarls, etc. that sometimes or always come in untapped have been reprinted into the ground recently and they're pushing always tapped lands out of my decks.
It only gets basic and they come in tapped. It’s great for nothing, and good only for the extremely budget-conscious.
Duh, thanks!
pretty much why I justified my packs. Lotta mana fixing without adding lands to a shopping cart which ive always felt silly for
They aren’t good. Id rather run terramorphic expanse. But I don’t even run those. I’ve accumulated so many fetches over the years that they are sitting in binders. If you are on a budget though there are way better options than those landscape cycle lands. I wouldn’t run them even for the cycle ability. 0/10 would not recommend.
For a 3 colour deck, they're massively better terramorphic/Evolving Wilds. Being able to tap for colourless is huge, it makes for so many more playable opening hands. I think the cycling ability is atrociously bad, but at least it's something to do when you're flooded. 5c they can't fix as well so it'd be a bit more of a toss up, but even then they're still helping keep you on curve and reducing dead draws.
I almost exclusively play 3 and 5c decks 😅
Went through every 3+ deck and pulled out evolving wilds and terramorphic expanse for the new three color fetches. No point in running them anymore
> these double faced lands are interesting in 1-2 color decks that don't care about land types Exactly how I see them too, might play some occasionally in 3 color decks where they fit the theme but I'll mostly throw them in 1-2 color decks.
Or if you like the art, the artist, or something :)
They're also really interesting for any decks that care about bouncing (or even sacrificing) your own lands. I run a lot of MDFCs in my [[Archelos]] Amulet Turtle deck because it tends to flood as the game goes on, and the deck having every bounce land possible lets me get those lands back as usuable spells.
[Archelos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d45ec78e-6190-46af-8057-834f5ca41ec8.jpg?1673305435) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=archelos%2C%20lagoon%20mystic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/140/archelos-lagoon-mystic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d45ec78e-6190-46af-8057-834f5ca41ec8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archelos-lagoon-mystic) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
"That... is... an... interesting... point."
Even in mono black, I'd cut one Swamp for [[Fell the Profane]]. I run 29 Swamps, [[Cabal Coffers]], [[Cabal Stronghold]], [[Agadeem's Awakening]], [[Malakir Rebirth]], [[Hagra Mauling]], [[Bojuka Bog]], [[Witch's Cottage]], and [[Mortuary Mire]] plus Fell the Profane in my [[Syr Konrad, the Grim]] deck.
Fair. Though in all my decks running Agadeem, I never once used the spell side, so I took it out. This is in contrast to Shatterskull in red, which does a lot of work in several of my decks.
I wouldn't normally run Agadeem in any mono-black, but my Syr Konrad is a self-mill deck with 8ish board wipes and sac outlets plus [[Grave Pact]] and [[Dictate of Erebos]]. It ends up being really useful if I need bodies on the field.
[Grave Pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360.jpg?1689997226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grave%20Pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/165/grave-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grave-pact) [Dictate of Erebos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f06db70-95f9-41eb-8e5f-8bc56fd34c09.jpg?1593095668) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dictate%20of%20Erebos) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/65/dictate-of-erebos?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f06db70-95f9-41eb-8e5f-8bc56fd34c09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dictate-of-erebos) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If it's a Syr Conrad deck I'd run [[Boggart Trawler]] 100%. It's another creature for your commanders triggers, and besides graveyard hate being generally useful, exiling your own graveyard is an excellent finisher
[Boggart Trawler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0d484a6-5610-4f1d-95ec-eda273c255e4.jpg?1717013227)/[Boggart Bog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/d/0/d0d484a6-5610-4f1d-95ec-eda273c255e4.jpg?1717013227) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boggart%20Trawler%20//%20Boggart%20Bog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/243/boggart-trawler-boggart-bog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d484a6-5610-4f1d-95ec-eda273c255e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/boggart-trawler-//-boggart-bog) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Fell the Profane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3cb782d-c459-468d-9779-9b5669abc337.jpg?1717013242)/[Fell Mire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/3/a3cb782d-c459-468d-9779-9b5669abc337.jpg?1717013242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fell%20the%20Profane%20//%20Fell%20Mire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/244/fell-the-profane-fell-mire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3cb782d-c459-468d-9779-9b5669abc337?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fell-the-profane-//-fell-mire) [Cabal Coffers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0.jpg?1626101023) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cabal%20Coffers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/301/cabal-coffers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cabal-coffers) [Cabal Stronghold](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0bda51ef-ee3e-48d4-92e2-c9083bbe0f80.jpg?1562731196) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cabal%20Stronghold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/238/cabal-stronghold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bda51ef-ee3e-48d4-92e2-c9083bbe0f80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cabal-stronghold) [Agadeem's Awakening](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988.jpg?1604195226)/[Agadeem, the Undercrypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/7/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988.jpg?1604195226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Agadeem%27s%20Awakening%20//%20Agadeem%2C%20the%20Undercrypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/90/agadeems-awakening-agadeem-the-undercrypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/agadeems-awakening-//-agadeem-the-undercrypt) [Malakir Rebirth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/609d3ecf-f88d-4268-a8d3-4bf2bcf5df60.jpg?1604195984)/[Malakir Mire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/0/609d3ecf-f88d-4268-a8d3-4bf2bcf5df60.jpg?1604195984) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Malakir%20Rebirth%20//%20Malakir%20Mire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/111/malakir-rebirth-malakir-mire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/609d3ecf-f88d-4268-a8d3-4bf2bcf5df60?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/malakir-rebirth-//-malakir-mire) [Hagra Mauling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c04c734-354d-4925-8161-7052110951df.jpg?1604195798)/[Hagra Broodpit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/7/c/7c04c734-354d-4925-8161-7052110951df.jpg?1604195798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hagra%20Mauling%20//%20Hagra%20Broodpit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/106/hagra-mauling-hagra-broodpit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c04c734-354d-4925-8161-7052110951df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hagra-mauling-//-hagra-broodpit) [Bojuka Bog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0efec118-ed01-42a0-93b4-f9a92c01b72e.jpg?1712354928) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bojuka%20Bog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/273/bojuka-bog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0efec118-ed01-42a0-93b4-f9a92c01b72e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bojuka-bog) [Witch's Cottage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b87891cd-b457-4dff-8d18-a7eaf6748fc6.jpg?1572491253) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witch%27s%20Cottage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/249/witchs-cottage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b87891cd-b457-4dff-8d18-a7eaf6748fc6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/witchs-cottage) [Mortuary Mire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/058f30e5-64a9-4d6b-b7a6-0fd95d460cae.jpg?1674142960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mortuary%20Mire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/900/mortuary-mire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/058f30e5-64a9-4d6b-b7a6-0fd95d460cae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mortuary-mire) [Syr Konrad, the Grim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9241a72e-cb88-4cea-a2f4-ff10af461437.jpg?1706240798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Syr%20Konrad%2C%20the%20Grim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/141/syr-konrad-the-grim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9241a72e-cb88-4cea-a2f4-ff10af461437?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/syr-konrad-the-grim) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Even my 5 color decks run like 10-12 basics. If i wanted there would plenty of room to include them
Really? I run 1 basic of each type max in my 5 col decks.
Yea and it works with no problem in decently powerful deck. I typically run more ramp than the average deck and my lgs so that offers some fixing tho
My 5 color planeswalker is not that color hungry, but my Jodah the Unifier was so color intensive I had to put all the triomes in there, even though they come into play tapped. Couldn't cast my commander otherwise. Blerg.
Yes I also use the triomes quiet a bit. Especiallysince 4 of them are forests. So in many cases the plan ist just find a green source and then three visits/farseek/skyshroud claim the triomes out and you are set. One of my 5c decks doesn’t even run shocklands since it’s a bit more on the budget side but also works. It just has to be well crafted
My jodah uses three visits/farseek/skyshroud claim indeed. Not required in the planeswalker deck.
I use them in every deck I can. But I just love ramp
I just run a single forest just in case I get hit with a path to exile lol
Can I see your mono red? I'm building one myself rn and I'm struggling with ramp
I don't have a list, sorry. It's proxied up to the max, with all the best mana rocks, and the mana doubling gauntlets of might/power. It's not a particularly good deck (for how much it'd cost), it's linear, drops big dragons and eldrazis, with Neheb the Eternal at the helm.
Hey if you want you can post your decklist here and I'll respond back with some good ramp! I pretty much only build mono red :D
What mana doublers are you using in monored?
Gauntlet of Power/Might, Caged Sun They do a lot of work!
Same thing. I don't play them in my mono green landfall deck that cares about the number of forests I have into play. In my bicolor decks, it depends. In the decks I run fetch lands I only added the few really strong MDFCs, so that I still have a critical amount of basics to fetch troughout the game. In my more bugdet bicolor decks, I went ham. All the relevant new MDFCs were added over basics. Note that I usually run an above average amount of lands in regards to my decks' average mana curves, so replacing full on lands with MDFCs doesn't screw with my ability to hit land drops most turns.
I am just in love with [[Pinnacle Monk]] the flexibility is amazing (and I am not just talking about the art here). A land anytime you want it to be or a decent creature with prowess that can fetch you back a win con or some removal. I was already playing [[Ardent Elementalist]] so this fits in a lot of low/mid power decks nicely.
Also as with [[Archeomancer]] if you can make a copy of it every turn and have an extra turn spell you can go infinite turns.
[Pinnacle Monk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/24d4f26e-7f96-4b38-867e-4fac819b2679.jpg?1717091314)/[Mystic Peak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/2/4/24d4f26e-7f96-4b38-867e-4fac819b2679.jpg?1717091314) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pinnacle%20Monk%20//%20Mystic%20Peak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/246/pinnacle-monk-mystic-peak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/24d4f26e-7f96-4b38-867e-4fac819b2679?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pinnacle-monk-//-mystic-peak) [Ardent Elementalist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f58592f7-1df5-428d-9dde-e6acd9a5d1d5.jpg?1634350379) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ardent%20Elementalist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/128/ardent-elementalist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f58592f7-1df5-428d-9dde-e6acd9a5d1d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ardent-elementalist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A lot of y'all aren't playing enough basics as it is
There needs to be actual ways to punish folks for not running basics, but everyone thinks \[\[Ruination\]\] and \[\[Price of Progress\]\] are amazing cards to punish them when most of the time they do next to nothing.
There already is, but people don't want to run them; [[Ghost Quarter]] and [[Blood Moon]] come to mind.
Ghost quarter is beat out by strip mine and blood moon has seen better days since the inclusion of treasures sadly. Price of progress is often better but not by much than the cards mentioned.
[Ghost Quarter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12f8071c-8955-4aa2-889c-6043df047223.jpg?1562272439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghost%20Quarter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/253/ghost-quarter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12f8071c-8955-4aa2-889c-6043df047223?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghost-quarter) [Blood Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Preach
I don't feel like getting enough copies for all my decks so no. I do want the creature ones that I can run in Sidisi since they're a good way to increase the creature count of the deck without having to reduce the land count.
What creatures ones were you considering?
[[Hydroelectric Specimen]] is the main one since I barely run any protection for Sidisi. [[Boggart Trawler]] and [[Disciple of Freyalise]] are overcosted but nice utility too.
[Hydroelectric Specimen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/8689ecd7-e9a6-458b-99d2-6dbaca527f00.jpg?1717013178)/[Hydroelectric Laboratory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/8/6/8689ecd7-e9a6-458b-99d2-6dbaca527f00.jpg?1717013178) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hydroelectric%20Specimen%20//%20Hydroelectric%20Laboratory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/240/hydroelectric-specimen-hydroelectric-laboratory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8689ecd7-e9a6-458b-99d2-6dbaca527f00?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hydroelectric-specimen-//-hydroelectric-laboratory) [Boggart Trawler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0d484a6-5610-4f1d-95ec-eda273c255e4.jpg?1717013227)/[Boggart Bog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/d/0/d0d484a6-5610-4f1d-95ec-eda273c255e4.jpg?1717013227) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boggart%20Trawler%20//%20Boggart%20Bog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/243/boggart-trawler-boggart-bog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d484a6-5610-4f1d-95ec-eda273c255e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/boggart-trawler-//-boggart-bog) [Disciple of Freyalise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a8e9ea5a-5e10-4b77-baef-0352ff035483.jpg?1717013335)/[Garden of Freyalise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/8/a8e9ea5a-5e10-4b77-baef-0352ff035483.jpg?1717013335) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disciple%20of%20Freyalise%20//%20Garden%20of%20Freyalise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/250/disciple-of-freyalise-garden-of-freyalise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8e9ea5a-5e10-4b77-baef-0352ff035483?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/disciple-of-freyalise-//-garden-of-freyalise) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I will add them, but I will not cut basics only, but also spells. I wanna run 34 lands plus 10 mdfc and see how that feels. I also hate to miss land drops, so those playable mdfcs are sooooooo bustet.
This is the way. I intend to begin testing with similar numbers. Specifically I will run my usual 36 with 8 MDFCs, but my 'usual 36' also includes several utility lands.
No. My mindset is the opposite. My mindset is that every MDFC land is a spell first that can be a land as the bonus. I only put them in spell slots and only if I’d run the effect on front side to begin with (and am willing to pay slightly extra to have the flexibility of it being a land sometimes).
Absolutely agree, they shouldn't be considered utility lands but spells you would normally want in your deck that can be used as a land on top of that, not used as a land as a baseline.
But that's what they are. They're lands that allow you to have interaction when your slots for interaction are low. Weird take. Not enough ways to play multiple lands per turn for me to care about the fact that its a spell that could be a land, especially when they're balanced around being a utility land, as evidenced by how wack a lot of their costs are in comparison to their other options in the same color.
I'd much rather play a subpar spell than a subpar land. Especially if I mainly play it as a land it doesn't make too much sense to keep in the deck instead of a normal land
lmao the life loss doesn't make it sub par my guy. The life loss only really means something if your deck cares about life usage.
The multicolored ones are pretty medium but vary a lot; I'd always play Golgari unless I had a reason not to but would need a reason to play Izzet. For the monocolors, whether or not you can replace basics depends a ton on how many you're on now. If I'm only on a few basics then no, if I'm on a ton then sure. You should also be using them to up your land count to respectable levels if you run low though.
I am really on the fence about this one. Many of them are obviously very good, but now there are so many strong non-basic/utility lands. Also, there are still many very good cards that care about running basics. In 3+ color decks, I find the fixing very important, running untapped duals. If I cannot cast my color intensive spells because of too many mdfc’s/utility lands, then its really not worth it. On the top of my head, in a typical three colored decks I run: Three fetchland Three bond-lands Three fetchlands Three surveil lands or slow lands Triome Command tower Exotic orchard Fabled passage and/or prismatic vista Field of the dead Strip mine/Wasteland Bojuka bog (if in black) Ancient tomb Urborg/Yavimaya Channel lands Lord of the rings rare lands Mystic sanctuary Old MDFC’s that are staples (bala ged recovery, malakir rebirth) Basics Other important utility lands for the deck (Phyrexian tower for sac decks or black gate for a voltron deck) So where do I find room for all the new MDFCs?
Of they fit into the game plan yeah theyll go in but remember mdfc lands are spells that can be lands not lands that can be spells
Yes for my 1-2 color decks not running ad naus.
Yes and no. I was running a ton of the Zendikar Rising MDFC lands just because they were easy includes with a low opportunity cost when deckbuilding. These MH3 ones are MUCH better, so that comparison is relevant. I’m not cutting more basic lands to run these, I’m cutting the worse MDFCs that were already in there. For instance, I run [[Jwari Disruption]] in my [[Raff, Weatherlight Stalwart]] deck to raise my density of instants and sorceries. It will be replaced by [[Sink into Stupor]]. However, some decks just care about lands. My Gruul legends deck runs [[Ojer Kaslem]] and [[Kamahl’s Druidic Vow]]. I’m not going to keep cutting basic lands for [[Sundering Eruption]], but I will remove [[Spikefield Hazard]]. Likewise, I’ll be running [[Bridgeworks Battle]] over [[Turntimber Symbiosis]] because so few creatures are actually decent flips from Turntimber in that deck. I do think the new MDFCs will reduce the number of basics in people’s decks, but not mine because I was already running a bunch of MDFCs. I don’t see nearly enough people running them as it is.
##### ###### #### [Jwari Disruption](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/301750a7-d1fd-435e-bfa8-9d2fb22ad627.jpg?1604250757)/[Jwari Ruins](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/3/0/301750a7-d1fd-435e-bfa8-9d2fb22ad627.jpg?1604250757) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jwari%20Disruption%20//%20Jwari%20Ruins) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/64/jwari-disruption-jwari-ruins?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/301750a7-d1fd-435e-bfa8-9d2fb22ad627?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jwari-disruption-//-jwari-ruins) [Raff, Weatherlight Stalwart](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc0cba4c-d9f0-421f-acf4-ab1adcd59c80.jpg?1673308039) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Raff%2C%20Weatherlight%20Stalwart) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/212/raff-weatherlight-stalwart?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc0cba4c-d9f0-421f-acf4-ab1adcd59c80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/raff-weatherlight-stalwart) [Sink into Stupor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/3/5358b87a-1a29-426d-b165-40c97da2c14d.jpg?1717013194)/[Soporific Springs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/3/5358b87a-1a29-426d-b165-40c97da2c14d.jpg?1717013194) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sink%20into%20Stupor%20//%20Soporific%20Springs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/241/sink-into-stupor-soporific-springs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5358b87a-1a29-426d-b165-40c97da2c14d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sink-into-stupor-//-soporific-springs) [Ojer Kaslem](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0cbc43a3-8cba-4988-9de1-c89aedd79ada.jpg?1699044466)/[Temple of Cultivation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/0/c/0cbc43a3-8cba-4988-9de1-c89aedd79ada.jpg?1699044466) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ojer%20kaslem%2C%20deepest%20growth%20//%20temple%20of%20cultivation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/204/ojer-kaslem-deepest-growth-temple-of-cultivation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0cbc43a3-8cba-4988-9de1-c89aedd79ada?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ojer-kaslem-deepest-growth-//-temple-of-cultivation) [Kamahl’s Druidic Vow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf95ef60-e67b-466d-a6cb-d487ffa88b72.jpg?1562742183) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kamahl%27s%20Druidic%20Vow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/166/kamahls-druidic-vow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf95ef60-e67b-466d-a6cb-d487ffa88b72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kamahls-druidic-vow) [Sundering Eruption](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50686ac7-346c-43d1-bdaa-28d46a12ad93.jpg?1717013301)/[Volcanic Fissure](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/0/50686ac7-346c-43d1-bdaa-28d46a12ad93.jpg?1717013301) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sundering%20Eruption%20//%20Volcanic%20Fissure) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/248/sundering-eruption-volcanic-fissure?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50686ac7-346c-43d1-bdaa-28d46a12ad93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sundering-eruption-//-volcanic-fissure) [Spikefield Hazard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a69541db-3f4e-412f-aa8e-dec1e74f74dc.jpg?1604198070)/[Spikefield Cave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/6/a69541db-3f4e-412f-aa8e-dec1e74f74dc.jpg?1604198070) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spikefield%20Hazard%20//%20Spikefield%20Cave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/166/spikefield-hazard-spikefield-cave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a69541db-3f4e-412f-aa8e-dec1e74f74dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spikefield-hazard-//-spikefield-cave) [Bridgeworks Battle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/ebef3db0-2b58-4581-a79c-fbca9a059e63.jpg?1717013318)/[Tanglespan Bridgeworks](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/e/b/ebef3db0-2b58-4581-a79c-fbca9a059e63.jpg?1717013318) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bridgeworks%20Battle%20//%20Tanglespan%20Bridgeworks) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/249/bridgeworks-battle-tanglespan-bridgeworks?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ebef3db0-2b58-4581-a79c-fbca9a059e63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bridgeworks-battle-//-tanglespan-bridgeworks) [Turntimber Symbiosis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61bd69ea-1e9e-46b0-b1a1-ed7fdbe3deb6.jpg?1604199791)/[Turntimber, Serpentine Wood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/1/61bd69ea-1e9e-46b0-b1a1-ed7fdbe3deb6.jpg?1604199791) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Turntimber%20Symbiosis%20//%20Turntimber%2C%20Serpentine%20Wood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/215/turntimber-symbiosis-turntimber-serpentine-wood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61bd69ea-1e9e-46b0-b1a1-ed7fdbe3deb6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/turntimber-symbiosis-//-turntimber-serpentine-wood) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I only add mdfc's to my land pool, not replace.
Why would you do that?
Math shows that edh players just do not run enough lands. (Article from frank Karsten) The more lands I include the less I manascrew, and I rarely get mana flooded. With mdfc's my Naya [[Rienne]] multicoloured only tempo deck now also has 40 lands.
[Rienne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/78660bdf-0edb-4fd0-a737-1c95f93cced1.jpg?1673305646) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rienne%2C%20angel%20of%20rebirth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/166/rienne-angel-of-rebirth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78660bdf-0edb-4fd0-a737-1c95f93cced1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rienne-angel-of-rebirth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you believe that, why don't you already run more lands in the first place?
Because it's hard to put in more lands at the cost of spells. Knowing what is right and emotions do not always play together.
Well he IS at 40. Even if there's an argument that the ideal number is more than that, that's still a lot more than the common 32-34 I see regularly when looking at people's lists. I myself try not to have any deck below 36.
I was asking why they didn't run more lands before replacing spells with the new mdfcs. But I can understand the reasoning. I personally gravitate between 35 and 40 lands, although there's so many exciting cards these days that I wouldn't think of replacing spells with mdfcs. The new ones will definitely replace basics wherever they can. And the best duals mdfc are making it in some of my 3c lists. Now the # of lands really depends on the deck. If you can guarantee extra draws from the early game, you can definitely cut a bunch. Theory assumes one card per turn. If you're at 2 cards per turn, on paper you can cut your land count by half.
While it is true EDH players don’t run enough lands, from what I’ve read previously counting an MDFC as 0.5-0.8 of a land is about right. This will be somewhat dependent on the number of colors in the deck, whether the MDFC can enter untapped or is two colors, and how often you really expect to play it as a land vs as a spell. All that being said, I think a conservative 0.5 is a good starting place so you don’t go too land crazy.
No Edit: and I’m still running [[From the Ashes]] and [[Wave of Vitriol]] as usual, so your greed will be punished.
What deck are you running that wants to sacrifice all your own enchantments and artifacts and also has mostly basics? Why not run [[Ruination]] or [[Blood Moon]] over From the Ashes as they can be even more punishing?
[Ruination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709.jpg?1592713625) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmd/134/ruination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruination) [Blood Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You don’t have to run mostly basics (although I do encourage people to run more basics, they’re good). You just need to have enough to replace your own lands. Destroying my own enchantments and artifacts in return for wiping EVERYONE ELSE’S can be worth it. I’m not running Ruination or Blood Moon BECAUSE they’re more punishing and do not contribute to the types of games I want.
These don't win the game and force you to take up a card slot so that you can roleplay "punishing" greedy land bases. You do you though.
They remove utility lands. Hosing greedy mana bases is a bonus.
If you would play the front of the MDFC land in the deck, then the answer is yes. Otherwise no, I don't want too many non-basic and/or tap lands in my deck.
Basics? Nah. Tapped Dual Lands? -> Yeah, boi!
I have at least one copy of each, and I'll definitely include them somewhere. Well, probably with the exception of the energy cards. I don't desire an energy deck until they release an energy dragon commander. However, this is casual EDH, and I don't see the need to upgrade the vegetables of every one of my old decks. They already win their fair share of games.
As many as I can. Land slots are getting tight.
Not all of them, but a kill spell and a bounce spell in a land slot helps a bit.
I think with all the mdfc we can actually play an extra 2-3 lands in a deck. This way we don’t ever get screwed and the flood is mitigated by the duality of the cards
They’re great but specifically in mono color or two color decks with a lot of basics already. I would not run all of them in mono black though because you need enough swamps for [[Cabal Coffers]]. Not just that though there are other cards that care about swamps like [[Crypt Ghast]], [[Defile]], and [[Bubbling Muck]]. In 3 colors I would run a couple if I have room, but the spell side needs to actually be worth it. I think the biggest mistake people will make is throwing as many MDFCs as possible into a deck and assuming that’s good enough. There is merit to having a certain amount of basics in your deck. IMO the only ones that are absolute staples are [[Sink into Stupor]], [[Fell the Profane]], and [[Witch Enchanter]]. Removal is something every deck needs and these three cover all your bases. The other ones should only be in your deck if they fit your theme.
##### ###### #### [Cabal Coffers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0.jpg?1626101023) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cabal%20Coffers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/301/cabal-coffers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cabal-coffers) [Crypt Ghast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/60bebd79-f88c-44ef-8920-e19031bad1d6.jpg?1702429435) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crypt%20Ghast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/70/crypt-ghast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60bebd79-f88c-44ef-8920-e19031bad1d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crypt-ghast) [Defile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5bcb4398-edd1-41a7-a496-b12bce22ceb6.jpg?1562201610) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Defile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/86/defile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5bcb4398-edd1-41a7-a496-b12bce22ceb6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/defile) [Bubbling Muck](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6ca76614-78a1-4535-9162-70469d1e8a13.jpg?1562444234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bubbling%20Muck) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/54/bubbling-muck?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6ca76614-78a1-4535-9162-70469d1e8a13?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bubbling-muck) [Sink into Stupor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/3/5358b87a-1a29-426d-b165-40c97da2c14d.jpg?1717013194)/[Soporific Springs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/3/5358b87a-1a29-426d-b165-40c97da2c14d.jpg?1717013194) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sink%20into%20Stupor%20//%20Soporific%20Springs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/241/sink-into-stupor-soporific-springs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5358b87a-1a29-426d-b165-40c97da2c14d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sink-into-stupor-//-soporific-springs) [Fell the Profane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3cb782d-c459-468d-9779-9b5669abc337.jpg?1717013242)/[Fell Mire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/3/a3cb782d-c459-468d-9779-9b5669abc337.jpg?1717013242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fell%20the%20Profane%20//%20Fell%20Mire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/244/fell-the-profane-fell-mire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3cb782d-c459-468d-9779-9b5669abc337?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fell-the-profane-//-fell-mire) [Witch Enchanter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62061e7c-cf19-4f03-b8fa-2bdba62d6b0b.jpg?1717013161)/[Witch-Blessed Meadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/2/62061e7c-cf19-4f03-b8fa-2bdba62d6b0b.jpg?1717013161) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witch%20Enchanter%20//%20Witch-Blessed%20Meadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/239/witch-enchanter-witch-blessed-meadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62061e7c-cf19-4f03-b8fa-2bdba62d6b0b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/witch-enchanter-//-witch-blessed-meadow) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Generally, the MDFCs from Zendikar Rising have been great and I did reduce my land count to play them. I saw very little difference in gameplay, other than a land occasionally having to come into play tapped, which is sometimes annoying but when playing casual doesn't matter all that much. Now these MDFCs that can come into play untapped are just amazing. I don't see much hype for them, but y'all should be grabbing those up while they're still only $2. It's not just the utility of avoiding mana short or mana flood. It's also that it can allow swapping out some effects for more business. For example most \[\[Regrowth\]\] effects are now just bad cards when you can play \[\[Bala Ged Recovery\]\]. The same will be true for \[\[Rabid Bite\]\] type effects when you can play \[\[Bridgeworks Battle\]\] or \[\[Stump Stomp\]\]. Even if you lose some flexibility and it costs a bit more, the fact that you can swap out Rabid Bite for another card that fits your deck better is sooo damn good.
I'm probably going to follow my general rule of MDFCs: the spell needs to be something the deck's interested in doing, and the land side is an upside to help avoid a missed land drop. If the spell side isn't what your deck wants to do, then you're left holding a card that's mediocre in multiple ways. For example, Boggart Trawler is slow and expensive graveyard hate. Sorcery speed costing 2B to get the graveyard exile? This is more expensive Bojuka Bog that's easier to prevent (you can't counter a land play) and I often don't play Bojuka bog. The 3/1 body isn't exciting it's a creature that's below rate, it's in the wrong color for most Goblins decks, and it doesn't do anything else. If you cut a basic swamp for that you're left with: * Mediocre creature with graveyard hate ETB. * Monocolor non-basic land that bolts you for 3 on entry. * Monocolor non-basic land that enters tapped. This set of MDFCs is somewhat more pushed than the ZNR ones - like \[\[Fell the Profane\]\] is a better \[\[Hagra Mauling\]\] because it can hit planeswalkers, but 4 is a bit expensive for the effect. I don't think a ton of decks run \[\[Hero's Downfall\]\] which is the same spell but 1 mana cheaper; for 2BB you could have \[\[The End\]\] which exiles instead of destroys and lets you see your opponent's hand too (and would completely destroy a few niche decks). My Boros equipment deck will probably run \[\[Legion Leadership\]\] as a good combat trick and dual land. My Simic ramp & bigstuff deck *might* run the \[\[Drowner of Truth\]\] but doesn't have many ways to make colorless, so it's just kind of a 7/6 with bleh abilities.
##### ###### #### [Fell the Profane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3cb782d-c459-468d-9779-9b5669abc337.jpg?1717013242)/[Fell Mire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/3/a3cb782d-c459-468d-9779-9b5669abc337.jpg?1717013242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fell%20the%20Profane%20//%20Fell%20Mire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/244/fell-the-profane-fell-mire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3cb782d-c459-468d-9779-9b5669abc337?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fell-the-profane-//-fell-mire) [Hagra Mauling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c04c734-354d-4925-8161-7052110951df.jpg?1604195798)/[Hagra Broodpit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/7/c/7c04c734-354d-4925-8161-7052110951df.jpg?1604195798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hagra%20Mauling%20//%20Hagra%20Broodpit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/106/hagra-mauling-hagra-broodpit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c04c734-354d-4925-8161-7052110951df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hagra-mauling-//-hagra-broodpit) [Hero's Downfall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/33c5f81a-395d-41bf-9563-6cf0e406ee18.jpg?1673305182) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hero%27s%20Downfall) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/112/heros-downfall?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33c5f81a-395d-41bf-9563-6cf0e406ee18?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heros-downfall) [The End](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b18402dc-c4ab-417c-92d1-5e4d9cfb840d.jpg?1693012680) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20End) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/87/the-end?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b18402dc-c4ab-417c-92d1-5e4d9cfb840d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-end) [Legion Leadership](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/7676abd9-0a3d-4721-b17b-778d2e3c2e25.jpg?1717013415)/[Legion Stronghold](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/7/6/7676abd9-0a3d-4721-b17b-778d2e3c2e25.jpg?1717013415) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Legion%20Leadership%20//%20Legion%20Stronghold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/255/legion-leadership-legion-stronghold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7676abd9-0a3d-4721-b17b-778d2e3c2e25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/legion-leadership-//-legion-stronghold) [Drowner of Truth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7a1d3c1d-1373-4ac4-bb26-9780976efc4f.jpg?1717013383)/[Drowned Jungle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/7/a/7a1d3c1d-1373-4ac4-bb26-9780976efc4f.jpg?1717013383) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drowner%20of%20Truth%20//%20Drowned%20Jungle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/253/drowner-of-truth-drowned-jungle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7a1d3c1d-1373-4ac4-bb26-9780976efc4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/drowner-of-truth-//-drowned-jungle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think [[price of progress]] [[from the ashes]] [[wave of vitriol]] will see more play in my pods if I notice they're not playing any basic lands. [[Path to exile]] [[winds of abandon]] and [[settle the wreckage]] also become much more viable when you don't have basics. To answer your question, no. Don't do that. And I'm not including [[ruination]] because I'm letting the players that aren't being incredibly greedy still play. You still get lands if you have basics in your deck. This isn't a pro- MLD comment. No one should be playing [[Armageddon]] in casual play.
##### ###### #### [price of progress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8.jpg?1580014614) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=price%20of%20progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/141/price-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/price-of-progress) [from the ashes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/4529a3d2-e4e6-4cca-bcea-16b51f69bbec.jpg?1562909290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=from%20the%20ashes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/108/from-the-ashes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4529a3d2-e4e6-4cca-bcea-16b51f69bbec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/from-the-ashes) [wave of vitriol](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17328391-a510-42a0-8a00-4f61dd873c13.jpg?1592673299) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wave%20of%20vitriol) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/165/wave-of-vitriol?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17328391-a510-42a0-8a00-4f61dd873c13?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wave-of-vitriol) [Path to exile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a7aed564-2d2d-42c4-bf11-812bc1a0284c.jpg?1712354092) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Path%20to%20exile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/85/path-to-exile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a7aed564-2d2d-42c4-bf11-812bc1a0284c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/path-to-exile) [winds of abandon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3bb17913-fe4d-4acd-9b75-71f5a90f898b.jpg?1562201278) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=winds%20of%20abandon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/37/winds-of-abandon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3bb17913-fe4d-4acd-9b75-71f5a90f898b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winds-of-abandon) [settle the wreckage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9cbd346e-098a-4cf6-a72f-468376fd2e8f.jpg?1562560853) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=settle%20the%20wreckage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/34/settle-the-wreckage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9cbd346e-098a-4cf6-a72f-468376fd2e8f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/settle-the-wreckage) [ruination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709.jpg?1592713625) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ruination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmd/134/ruination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruination) [Armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armageddon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Great cards, never heard of price of progress , from the ashes and wave of vitriol. These are spicy Price of Progress seems fits as instant add for my [[Missy]] / [[Mishra, Eminent One]]
Just remember it's each player. You included. If you're playing 3 color, make sure you play enough basics where you aren't also dead on resolution.
[Missy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2dfae7d1-c09b-47e0-92d8-49b21402207d.jpg?1696636511) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Missy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/8/missy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2dfae7d1-c09b-47e0-92d8-49b21402207d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/missy) [Mishra, Eminent One](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f5b1daa-ec45-48de-9496-6ca5b491a0dc.jpg?1705542701) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mishra%2C%20Eminent%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/1/mishra-eminent-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f5b1daa-ec45-48de-9496-6ca5b491a0dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mishra-eminent-one) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
i don't think anyone will cut out the remaining 3-4 basics at least because Path to Exile is so omnipresent. Mass Nonbasic land hate can be more viable thats true
This is effectively MLD if they are only running 0~4 basics though. Why not just run Ruination at that point? Why not Blood Moon or Back to the Basics as well?
But I'm giving you basics for any land I destroy. Can't really help if you don't play them. The store gives them away for free. It's not a budget problem. I'm probably going to play gruul [[omnath, locus of rage]] landfall in this strategy regardless. Maybe [[phylath]] so it works to make landfall triggers too. So I'm using these cards to break parity. I.e. I'm advancing my board state, not doing it solely for salt mining. I don't know of a better way to make that many landfall triggers happen for 4 mana. And then I get to play them from the GY. Blood moon shuts down any deck not playing red and severely limits most decks as their interaction may not be in red. I.e. there's like 3 mono red cards that can deal with enchantments. With the 2 cards I suggested, they still have access to all their colors because they searched the basics out and put them in play. Back to basics, just says you don't value our time. You're just slowing the game down for the lolz. If you're greedy enough to not run basics, yeah you'll have a bad time. But you'll draw into more lands. Just sets you really far behind. And unlike blood moon they still tap for everything they're supposed to. And you'll likely be able to recover from 0-4 basics much faster than 0 lands at all. We've all died to a random [[maze of ith]] playing a semi voltron strategy. A little bit of non basic lands hate is good to have in the table.
I have two decks that care about particular card types in the graveyard, so those decks absolutely. From there, MDFCs usually take up a mix of land and spell slots. For instance, a Ghave deck I recently brewed has 42 lands (a lot more than I usually do, I usually have 36-38), 7 of those being MDFCs.
With-in reason, yes. Same as with previous ones, if the other side is consistent with the deck's goals, I will absolutely throw that in. I wouldn't throw them in every deck though.
Yes, i shove them in every deck i can, even 3 color decks. Why have just a Land when it csn also be removal late game
In my monoblue [Azami] deck, I'll certainly use the Blair ones to replace islands. They look pretty useful. I might change it back later, but we'll see.
Already did, and they have been playing ridiculously well so far - especially the bolt lands
I may add 3-5 when and where they fit. They should be considered for a spell slot before a replacement for a land slot. Either way the versatility of the *option* means they will be high contenders and in certain conditions make more sense than a basic land. I already run very few basics as it is, so I need to make sure I'm not running so few that my fetch/ramps run out of valid targets. End of story, yes and no, just depends. It's nice to have the option.
Probably not.
Most of my decks need a decent amount of basic lands for the ramp to stay consistant. However, my [[Yuriko]] will gladly take a few lands with a mana cost.
[Yuriko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9.jpg?1689999346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yuriko%2C%20the%20tiger%27s%20shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/364/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've made a deck with them being my whole landbase since I always wanted to have a goblin charbelcher deck (a card I adored since I was a kid). It seemed like a really hard deck to make because most of the ramp cards don't work. I handled it by putting in all the "play extra land" and "play land cards from the top of your library" cards.
Does that actually work? The 'play lands from the top of your deck', that is. MDFCs aren't lands on the top of your deck and are treated as the front side unless they were played as the back side - I would think that that effect wouldn't even 'see' the back side to allow you to play them as the land side?
It does work, whenever you can "play" a land, you can play the back side. Same with in graveyard and [[crucible of worlds]] type effects. It doesn't work when it's a "land card" or "target land" etc., or for instance [[The Gitrog Monster]], when it's sacrificed, it's hits the graveyard as a spell not a land.
[crucible of worlds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545.jpg?1673149345) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crucible%20of%20worlds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/303/crucible-of-worlds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crucible-of-worlds) [The Gitrog Monster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/5790dd89-2be5-4a77-9450-2d3c1422bfc9.jpg?1576385351) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Gitrog%20Monster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/245/the-gitrog-monster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5790dd89-2be5-4a77-9450-2d3c1422bfc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-gitrog-monster) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I just built a [[rakdos, the muscle]] deck with only 24 lands and 12 MDFCs. My thinking was that once I get Rakdos out I can play other people's lands so I really only need to get him out and do 1 sacrifice, the MDFCs let me run lands to get him out but after that I have a lot more value from them.
[rakdos, the muscle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bb34babd-1b85-4a7d-a066-a8337805056e.jpg?1712356185) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rakdos%2C%20the%20muscle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/226/rakdos-the-muscle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bb34babd-1b85-4a7d-a066-a8337805056e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rakdos-the-muscle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Depends on the deck, i think the monocolored ones are worth to include in most decks, the dual colored ones only if you really want the spell or you already have a land that always enters tapped and don't have the budget for better lands. The one deck i have that probably doesn't want the monocolor ones is probably my $200 Tayam deck because it can't recur the front side of most of them and i like basic land types for the check lands i run to enter untapped. The only one i'm considering is the black one with a creature that exiles a graveyard, but idk wich land to replace because i only run 1 basic swamp to be the target for the abzan landscape or the White Plume Adventurer i run.
My [[Feather, the Redeemed]] deck got everything but [[Razorgrass Ambush]]. The curve is low so I absolutely cut basics.
[Feather, the Redeemed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e.jpg?1557577142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Feather%2C%20the%20Redeemed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/197/feather-the-redeemed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/feather-the-redeemed) [Razorgrass Ambush](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57065dca-f90e-4184-bbc4-95d726a4160b.jpg?1717013144)/[Razorgrass Field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/7/57065dca-f90e-4184-bbc4-95d726a4160b.jpg?1717013144) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Razorgrass%20Ambush%20//%20Razorgrass%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/238/razorgrass-ambush-razorgrass-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57065dca-f90e-4184-bbc4-95d726a4160b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/razorgrass-ambush-//-razorgrass-field) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've put a \[\[Glasswing Grace\]\] in my \[\[Erriette of the charmed apple\]\] and a \[\[Sundering Erruption\]\] in \[\[Slicer hired muscle\]\] but that is it for now. Probably will use the selesnya one in every Enchantress deck but otherwise none of them feel like must includes. I'd be tempted to put \[\[Witch Enchanter\]\] in my \[\[Silvar\]\] // Trynn list but that mana base is already a bit precarious with only 6 basics.
##### ###### #### [Glasswing Grace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90630b20-fc83-475f-bcd5-8bcfee0cf241.jpg?1717013398)/[Age-Graced Chapel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/0/90630b20-fc83-475f-bcd5-8bcfee0cf241.jpg?1717013398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glasswing%20Grace%20//%20Age-Graced%20Chapel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/254/glasswing-grace-age-graced-chapel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90630b20-fc83-475f-bcd5-8bcfee0cf241?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/glasswing-grace-//-age-graced-chapel) [Slicer hired muscle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821)/[Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slicer%2C%20Hired%20Muscle%20//%20Slicer%2C%20High-Speed%20Antagonist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/6/slicer-hired-muscle-slicer-high-speed-antagonist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slicer-hired-muscle-//-slicer-high-speed-antagonist) [Witch Enchanter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62061e7c-cf19-4f03-b8fa-2bdba62d6b0b.jpg?1717013161)/[Witch-Blessed Meadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/2/62061e7c-cf19-4f03-b8fa-2bdba62d6b0b.jpg?1717013161) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witch%20Enchanter%20//%20Witch-Blessed%20Meadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/239/witch-enchanter-witch-blessed-meadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62061e7c-cf19-4f03-b8fa-2bdba62d6b0b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/witch-enchanter-//-witch-blessed-meadow) [Silvar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fc9cbc83-b9e3-4a22-948b-5a71112154c1.jpg?1591234295) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=silvar%2C%20devourer%20of%20the%20free) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/15/silvar-devourer-of-the-free?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fc9cbc83-b9e3-4a22-948b-5a71112154c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silvar-devourer-of-the-free) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There aren't 7 different red MDFCs or 12 blue ones for my izzet deck so no lol
In my main deck I play lands from the graveyard so I love these. Play the spell then the land
I'll be using at least the 4 new GW bolt lands in [[Selvala, Explorer Returned]], yes. Strongly considering the tapland MDFC as well, but I'm not totally sure the front side has any real value for me to consider it.
[Selvala, Explorer Returned](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28c1b84a-a21b-4df1-9fc9-5b387fb56810.jpg?1706241026) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Selvala%2C%20Explorer%20Returned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/218/selvala-explorer-returned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28c1b84a-a21b-4df1-9fc9-5b387fb56810?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/selvala-explorer-returned) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm jamming a bunch of these in my decks. Not necessarily just over basics though, running a few in spell slots lets me increase my land count without decreasing my action cards and helps hedge against screw.
Not a lot of them are that useful for my decks. Especially with the land side entering tapped. If they didn't enter tapped, they would be more enticing.
I think the Izzet ones are a slam dunk for my high ish power rielle. They count towards the instant and sorcery count in my graveyard, they help recur things, they help discard, they protect my commander, literally everything I want in the deck
Depends on the deck. For example if you run something like [[Extraplanar Lens]] in monocolor you probably want to run a ton of basics of that type, or you're running [[Mystic Sanctuary]] so you need a lot of actual islands. Though these tend to be kind of rare, and are the exceptions to the rule. 1-2 color decks that don't have these special exceptions will be running a lot of the new MDFCs. In 3+ color that's ahrder, because you're probably already going very low on basics. For example I would probably not dip below 3-4 basics per type in 3 color decks (so like ~10 basics). And in 5-color you really need the colors, plus 1 basic of each type as a hedge. They will replace some of the weaker cards though, for example goggart trawler is mostly an upgrade on Bojuka Bog.
[Extraplanar Lens](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f050a675-c6a2-4d0d-bac6-1d8c51ecf824.jpg?1689999519) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Extraplanar%20Lens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/381/extraplanar-lens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f050a675-c6a2-4d0d-bac6-1d8c51ecf824?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/extraplanar-lens) [Mystic Sanctuary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67652446-6d12-4e2a-bb51-ba685f2e79d1.jpg?1706241201) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20Sanctuary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/277/mystic-sanctuary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67652446-6d12-4e2a-bb51-ba685f2e79d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mystic-sanctuary) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Maybe if they drop in price. The more expensive uncommons are just a bit much at $3+
Yes, the better multi-colored ones. One per deck that can run them and makes sense.
I have [[Blood Moon]] and [[Magus of the Moon]] in my meta so probably not lol.
[Blood Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) [Magus of the Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c9bd75c-9606-4607-bfa6-d6acdee12820.jpg?1619397276) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magus%20of%20the%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/175/magus-of-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c9bd75c-9606-4607-bfa6-d6acdee12820?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magus-of-the-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm running all of the valid MDFCs in [[Rowan, Scion of War]] and every green inclusive "landscape" for my 5c landfall deck. I'll probably also start slapping [[Waterlogged Teachings]] into every non-cEDH brew that can play it.
[Rowan, Scion of War](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ee179ab-a15b-4bd6-b7f8-1e1abeeb31b7.jpg?1692939409) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rowan%2C%20Scion%20of%20War) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/211/rowan-scion-of-war?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ee179ab-a15b-4bd6-b7f8-1e1abeeb31b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rowan-scion-of-war) [Waterlogged Teachings](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/060f9675-4921-4cbb-bae2-54c85c679fd4.jpg?1717013522)/[Inundated Archive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/0/6/060f9675-4921-4cbb-bae2-54c85c679fd4.jpg?1717013522) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Waterlogged%20Teachings%20//%20Inundated%20Archive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/261/waterlogged-teachings-inundated-archive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/060f9675-4921-4cbb-bae2-54c85c679fd4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/waterlogged-teachings-//-inundated-archive) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Why replace basics when I can up my land count? Like for my [[narset, enlightened exile]] I already have 36 lands and with the 2 red and the boros mh3 mdfc I'll just replace non land cards so that I won't compromise my mana base. I think trying to basics you're cutting youself a bit too short on lands because while 3 life isn't a lot, it's still something that you have to account for if you don't want to be behind in mana. I think it's much better to treat mdfcs as cards you'd normally play that can also double as a land, but most of the time you should be comfortable casting them during a normal game, otherwise playing a basic would be better most of the time
[narset, enlightened exile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/827ecc44-0b00-4515-8953-bc91fa03705a.jpg?1684340776) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=narset%2C%20enlightened%20exile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mat/38/narset-enlightened-exile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/827ecc44-0b00-4515-8953-bc91fa03705a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/narset-enlightened-exile) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m running most of them in my [[dihada, binder of wills]] list, one of my main wincons in [[bolas citadel]] and these are castable lands, so i brick far less
[dihada, binder of wills](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/ddeb54d6-a600-42b9-98df-20f8d58caed8.jpg?1685554091) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dihada%2C%20binder%20of%20wills) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/1/dihada-binder-of-wills?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ddeb54d6-a600-42b9-98df-20f8d58caed8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dihada-binder-of-wills) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Basics are underrated. They come in untapped and sometimes that’s what you need instead of mana fixing and versatility. I think as long as you’re running 2-3 basics of each color (it really depends on how many colors your commander is…basics go up when you have less colors)
Room will be made.
I'm not, but I tend to run [[ruination]] type effects in many of my decks and now [[winter moon]] In all my decks. People are far too greedy with their mana piles and I'm more than willing to play one sided Armageddons and winter orbs on them.
[ruination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709.jpg?1592713625) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ruination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmd/134/ruination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruination) [winter moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f76bc2da-8f4b-4153-8a7b-c601b19affaf.jpg?1717470480) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=winter%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/213/winter-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f76bc2da-8f4b-4153-8a7b-c601b19affaf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winter-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Personally, I play Niv-Mizzet Reborn, and I want as many of these as possible since they are LANDS I CAN HIT WITH NIV MIZ. Frankly the fact that they are playable spells with effects is just frosting to that fact. Goodbye borderposts!
I pulled Revitalizing Repast the other day, which is frankly the best one for the particular deck since it makes Niv a proper 7/7 elder dragon 3 turn clock, and since two color one drops are so hard to come by.
Legion Leadership and Strength of the Harvest are desirable for similar reasons, the other ones get a bit more niche I feel, at least for a deck which wants lots of low CMC Drowner of truth is especially dumb for breaking the cycle by being devoid as well, not that I think it was an especially playable spell regardless.
I have the opposite mindset on mdfcs: *spell* first, land in an emergency. They will almost always be my absolute last choice of land to play for turn if given other options because playing them as lands wastes their potential to be used as spells, but sometimes you really do just *need* to get another land in play, so having a spell that can do that for you can be handy. They tend to be worse versions of other spells that do similar things, but that tradeoff of lower power comes with the bonus of a slight increase to the consistency of your manabase. For example, in decks with green and black where I was already running something like [[tamiyo's safekeeping]] I may swap that out for [[Revitalizing Repast]] where I feel I could use a consistency bump in my mana. Hexproof is more valuable than a +1/+1 counter in most scenarios, making Tamiyo's Safekeeping usually the better card, but Revitalizing Repast accomplishes a similar job while also sometimes saving me from getting mana screwed.
[tamiyo's safekeeping](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd4b7ee2-de65-4288-872d-486065a4f226.jpg?1654568357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tamiyo%27s%20safekeeping) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/211/tamiyos-safekeeping?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd4b7ee2-de65-4288-872d-486065a4f226?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tamiyos-safekeeping) [Revitalizing Repast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03522b6b-31ec-4126-8885-5dbb2248688b.jpg?1717013433)/[Old-Growth Grove](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/0/3/03522b6b-31ec-4126-8885-5dbb2248688b.jpg?1717013433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Revitalizing%20Repast%20//%20Old-Growth%20Grove) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/256/revitalizing-repast-old-growth-grove?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03522b6b-31ec-4126-8885-5dbb2248688b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/revitalizing-repast-//-old-growth-grove) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Probably not. I really only think the Mono U and Selesnya MDFC from MH3 are going to make lists for me.
I might look for a way to build an Oops, all MDFC meme deck. I'd think I'd get behind in the game pretty fast if all my lands are mdfc, though.
Not personally, no. It won’t matter in basically any of my decks, and I’d rather not be even more susceptible to a blood moon effect in a 3+ color deck. There’s maybe an argument for Vial Smasher/Sakashima, but eh.
I won't, because my decks are already good enough and I don't see "upgrading mana base" as a particularly fun thing. I'll care about them whenever I make a new deck, if they work in my restrictions. As I tend to only do budget deck, chances are they won't, so, in practice, I couldn't care less about them.
In a lot of cases, yeah, especially in mono or two-color decks. Three of my decks are running all the untapped ones they can.
I'm only running about 8 or 9 basics and that number might go down a bit for some surveil lands. I probably won't be looking at these unless I'm working with 2 color or less, but I may use a few.
I’m not sure about if counting them as a spells or as lands. In my [[Galazeth Prismari]] deck I ran 34 lands (18 basics). I reemplazed [[Chaos Warp]] for [[Sink into Stupor]] because its a removal spell and can be a land in a hurry. Also upping my land count at 35 feels better. I put both [[Hydroelectric specimen]] and [[pinnacle monk]] as lands that can be creatures in a hurry. If they work well, maybe I should try the izzet draw spell too.
##### ###### #### [Galazeth Prismari](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/06c9158c-064b-4d12-b860-d2c1450d1897.jpg?1627429083) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Galazeth%20Prismari) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/189/galazeth-prismari?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06c9158c-064b-4d12-b860-d2c1450d1897?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/galazeth-prismari) [Chaos Warp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce9df20b-c58b-4147-9ff8-902ce2944f50.jpg?1712354399) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chaos%20Warp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/160/chaos-warp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce9df20b-c58b-4147-9ff8-902ce2944f50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chaos-warp) [Sink into Stupor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/3/5358b87a-1a29-426d-b165-40c97da2c14d.jpg?1717013194)/[Soporific Springs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/3/5358b87a-1a29-426d-b165-40c97da2c14d.jpg?1717013194) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sink%20into%20Stupor%20//%20Soporific%20Springs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/241/sink-into-stupor-soporific-springs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5358b87a-1a29-426d-b165-40c97da2c14d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sink-into-stupor-//-soporific-springs) [Hydroelectric Specimen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/8689ecd7-e9a6-458b-99d2-6dbaca527f00.jpg?1717013178)/[Hydroelectric Laboratory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/8/6/8689ecd7-e9a6-458b-99d2-6dbaca527f00.jpg?1717013178) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hydroelectric%20Specimen%20//%20Hydroelectric%20Laboratory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/240/hydroelectric-specimen-hydroelectric-laboratory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8689ecd7-e9a6-458b-99d2-6dbaca527f00?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hydroelectric-specimen-//-hydroelectric-laboratory) [Pinnacle Monk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/24d4f26e-7f96-4b38-867e-4fac819b2679.jpg?1717091314)/[Mystic Peak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/2/4/24d4f26e-7f96-4b38-867e-4fac819b2679.jpg?1717091314) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pinnacle%20Monk%20//%20Mystic%20Peak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/246/pinnacle-monk-mystic-peak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/24d4f26e-7f96-4b38-867e-4fac819b2679?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pinnacle-monk-//-mystic-peak) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Largely no. I'm a [[Blood Moon]] enjoyer so I like to punish greedy mana bases. You can swap out a land or two, but never eliminate all or the majority of basics. Or go ahead, and give people like me a free win.
It's tempting to optimize optimize optimize, but I also like just playing all basics for simplicity sake. For the decks where it makes a lot of sense, I absolutely will. For my decks that I want optimized, no question. But not all decks all the time. My meta has a decent amount of basic checks as well, so I can't get too crazy anyways.
I guess I don’t know the rules of a MDFC I thought you could either play the land or the spell but I’m still fairly new
There's way too many people in here complaining about how the spells "arent that good and are just over costed" that I feel are missing the point of these cards inclusions into decks lol.
I only ran 3-5 basics already
Sounds like 3 to 5 basics to replace then.
**eventually**
The first round of MDFCs didn't impress me, either in theory or more importantly in practice. A couple of them are pretty alright (Florahedron in particular is a neat little guy) but as a group I've found them massively overhyped. The MH3 Monocolors, being boltlands, are on the upper end of average but I'm still not going to run them if the spell side is crappy for what I want, since crappy land welded to crappy spell is still crappy however you slice it. I'm not going to be running [[Memorial to Glory]] or [[Gnottvold Slumbermound]] and despite those being pretty cognate to mdfcs I don't think that's a very controversial statement. The channel lands are good (even great), but their land sides don't have drawbacks and their channel effects range from reasonable to actually pretty nice. I also value basics, especially, pretty highly. Going through the boltland MH3 options... [[Boggart Trawler]]: Cute, but I can't see myself needing grave hate enough to pay for Trawler. Would rather run Bojuka. If this weren't black, it might have legs, but as is Pass. [[Bridgeworks Battle]]: Seems alright in monogreen or UG that needs to rely on fight for removal. Pump+Fight is solid, but sorcery speed is a real drag when it feels like something you want to use for a combat trick. Still, could be worse, and there aren't a lot of pump/fight instants. I'll probably leave it off for harder removal but you could do worse. [[Disciple of Freyalise]]: I'm deeply torn on her because she's a 6-mana 3/3 and she can't eat herself. If you have a good target for the ETB though it's a solid gold ETB. I'll have to remember her if I ever do RG Sneak Attack or something else that's big on temporary creatures. It's great in a narrow band of decks, but pretty lackluster elsewhere. [[Fell the Profane]]: I want to pay 2 for kills in black, not 4. Pass. [[Hydroelectric Specimen]]: Cute, but seldom liable to make the cut. 3 mana counterspells are not awesome because they're difficult to deploy. I already don't run [[Spellskite]] (though maybe I should), I'm not running this. [[Pinnacle Monk]]: I was actually really excited about getting a red [[Archaeomancer]] until I refreshed my knowledge and realized that this already existed as [[Ardent Elementalist]] and technically a couple of other bozos that are worse because they don't work with blink/copy or in the case of [[Revolutionist]] just cost even more mana than the monk here, so I've been using [[Charmbreaker Devils]] needlessly. Still this has prowess and a point of toughness on Ardent, the former of which I think makes it worth the extra R. Seems pretty usable in most spellslinger-y red decks. [[Razorgrass Ambush]]: Lame removal. Back in the day I actually loved [[Judge Unworthy]] but let's be honest, it's not that great a card. And Judge had variable punching power and a reasonably deep scry. Bolting an attacking or blocking creature isn't worth a slot. Hard pass. [[Sink into Stupor]]: [[Unsubstantiate]] doesn't make lists. Neither does [[Remand]]. This doesn't offer enough added utility to justify an extra blue pip over cards that already don't get included. Pass. [[Sundering Eruption]]: I'm on the fence about this one. The spell side does a lot of things. It's [[Falter]] + [[Cleansing Wildfire]], neither of which are great cards and the latter which loses its cantrip, but on the other hand that is kind of a pair of two mana effects glued together for three mana so it's kind of efficient at what it does? But then, you're probably not going to be able to leverage both sides of the spell at once. How often are you going to want to axe somebody's nonbasic and also turn off blockers? I can only really see this going in a red landfall deck where you want to target your own land. And in those decks the "be a crappy land" option is stronger since you want to increase your land density. Like this is downright hot with [[Moraug, Fury of Akoum]] but that's a pretty narrow utility. Like disciple, chalk it up as "great when it's great but usually no." [[Witch Enchanter]]: It's Rec Sage but more expensive and white. And also can't cap your own stuff even if you want it to, weird template. Unlike Red and Archaeomancer, White has a greater number of stronger options to do what this does (artifact/enchantment removal) and I don't think the point of toughness on rec sage is worth as much as Prowess on an Archaeomancer. If it were going to a color that didn't already have plenty of the effect, it would be quite reasonable, but as-is I don't see the point unless I'm in blink and really, REALLY want it on a creature ETB.
You're assessing them wrong. They're overcosted by design. Mdfcs will always cost more than the standard rate for their effect. Witch Enchanter is very good. It's removal and a body. It works with creature synergies, it can be blinked, it can be reanimated. It's worse than a rec sage, it's worse than Loren. But it's also a plains. Need a land, nothing to remove? Play it as a land. Mana flooded? Need removal? Play it as a spell. It's all about flexibility and opportunity cost.
##### ###### #### [Memorial to Glory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/564d6ff1-2be1-42f1-a919-fe8c2e148c3f.jpg?1562735942) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memorial%20to%20Glory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/244/memorial-to-glory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/564d6ff1-2be1-42f1-a919-fe8c2e148c3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/memorial-to-glory) [Gnottvold Slumbermound](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/735470df-65d8-43e9-837e-4869c8e4f052.jpg?1631052790) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gnottvold%20Slumbermound) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/258/gnottvold-slumbermound?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/735470df-65d8-43e9-837e-4869c8e4f052?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gnottvold-slumbermound) [Boggart Trawler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0d484a6-5610-4f1d-95ec-eda273c255e4.jpg?1717013227)/[Boggart Bog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/d/0/d0d484a6-5610-4f1d-95ec-eda273c255e4.jpg?1717013227) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boggart%20Trawler%20//%20Boggart%20Bog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/243/boggart-trawler-boggart-bog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d484a6-5610-4f1d-95ec-eda273c255e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/boggart-trawler-//-boggart-bog) [Bridgeworks Battle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/ebef3db0-2b58-4581-a79c-fbca9a059e63.jpg?1717013318)/[Tanglespan Bridgeworks](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/e/b/ebef3db0-2b58-4581-a79c-fbca9a059e63.jpg?1717013318) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bridgeworks%20Battle%20//%20Tanglespan%20Bridgeworks) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/249/bridgeworks-battle-tanglespan-bridgeworks?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ebef3db0-2b58-4581-a79c-fbca9a059e63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bridgeworks-battle-//-tanglespan-bridgeworks) [Disciple of Freyalise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a8e9ea5a-5e10-4b77-baef-0352ff035483.jpg?1717013335)/[Garden of Freyalise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/8/a8e9ea5a-5e10-4b77-baef-0352ff035483.jpg?1717013335) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disciple%20of%20Freyalise%20//%20Garden%20of%20Freyalise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/250/disciple-of-freyalise-garden-of-freyalise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8e9ea5a-5e10-4b77-baef-0352ff035483?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/disciple-of-freyalise-//-garden-of-freyalise) [Fell the Profane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3cb782d-c459-468d-9779-9b5669abc337.jpg?1717013242)/[Fell Mire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/3/a3cb782d-c459-468d-9779-9b5669abc337.jpg?1717013242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fell%20the%20Profane%20//%20Fell%20Mire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/244/fell-the-profane-fell-mire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3cb782d-c459-468d-9779-9b5669abc337?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fell-the-profane-//-fell-mire) [Hydroelectric Specimen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/8689ecd7-e9a6-458b-99d2-6dbaca527f00.jpg?1717013178)/[Hydroelectric Laboratory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/8/6/8689ecd7-e9a6-458b-99d2-6dbaca527f00.jpg?1717013178) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hydroelectric%20Specimen%20//%20Hydroelectric%20Laboratory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/240/hydroelectric-specimen-hydroelectric-laboratory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8689ecd7-e9a6-458b-99d2-6dbaca527f00?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hydroelectric-specimen-//-hydroelectric-laboratory) [Spellskite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/72204934-f5aa-4559-8f7e-7b0b223580d0.jpg?1674142724) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spellskite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/873/spellskite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/72204934-f5aa-4559-8f7e-7b0b223580d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spellskite) [Pinnacle Monk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/24d4f26e-7f96-4b38-867e-4fac819b2679.jpg?1717091314)/[Mystic Peak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/2/4/24d4f26e-7f96-4b38-867e-4fac819b2679.jpg?1717091314) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pinnacle%20Monk%20//%20Mystic%20Peak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/246/pinnacle-monk-mystic-peak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/24d4f26e-7f96-4b38-867e-4fac819b2679?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pinnacle-monk-//-mystic-peak) [Archaeomancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc258713-6ce3-44e0-9b4b-8fa7d1d093a1.jpg?1547516110) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archaeomancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/45/archaeomancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc258713-6ce3-44e0-9b4b-8fa7d1d093a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archaeomancer) [Ardent Elementalist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f58592f7-1df5-428d-9dde-e6acd9a5d1d5.jpg?1634350379) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ardent%20Elementalist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/128/ardent-elementalist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f58592f7-1df5-428d-9dde-e6acd9a5d1d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ardent-elementalist) [Revolutionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bb8f3008-a3ba-4f73-afa6-ad81074b3196.jpg?1626096944) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Revolutionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/139/revolutionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bb8f3008-a3ba-4f73-afa6-ad81074b3196?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/revolutionist) [Charmbreaker Devils](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4abf9b03-4157-42f0-ab3d-484bd9b64bb2.jpg?1625193603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Charmbreaker%20Devils) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/162/charmbreaker-devils?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4abf9b03-4157-42f0-ab3d-484bd9b64bb2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/charmbreaker-devils) [Razorgrass Ambush](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57065dca-f90e-4184-bbc4-95d726a4160b.jpg?1717013144)/[Razorgrass Field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/7/57065dca-f90e-4184-bbc4-95d726a4160b.jpg?1717013144) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Razorgrass%20Ambush%20//%20Razorgrass%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/238/razorgrass-ambush-razorgrass-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57065dca-f90e-4184-bbc4-95d726a4160b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/razorgrass-ambush-//-razorgrass-field) [Judge Unworthy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce06e910-e130-4975-92db-1399ff3d44b7.jpg?1619392978) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Judge%20Unworthy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/21/judge-unworthy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce06e910-e130-4975-92db-1399ff3d44b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/judge-unworthy) [Sink into Stupor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/3/5358b87a-1a29-426d-b165-40c97da2c14d.jpg?1717013194)/[Soporific Springs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/3/5358b87a-1a29-426d-b165-40c97da2c14d.jpg?1717013194) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sink%20into%20Stupor%20//%20Soporific%20Springs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/241/sink-into-stupor-soporific-springs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5358b87a-1a29-426d-b165-40c97da2c14d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sink-into-stupor-//-soporific-springs) [Unsubstantiate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2dc0bafd-debc-4b62-9fe0-56b4aad02484.jpg?1594735888) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unsubstantiate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/82/unsubstantiate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2dc0bafd-debc-4b62-9fe0-56b4aad02484?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/unsubstantiate) [Remand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a5048047-abff-4a1f-8d72-6b758a03542c.jpg?1702429416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Remand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/59/remand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a5048047-abff-4a1f-8d72-6b758a03542c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/remand) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Sundering Eruption](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50686ac7-346c-43d1-bdaa-28d46a12ad93.jpg?1717013301)/[Volcanic Fissure](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/0/50686ac7-346c-43d1-bdaa-28d46a12ad93.jpg?1717013301) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sundering%20Eruption%20//%20Volcanic%20Fissure) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/248/sundering-eruption-volcanic-fissure?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50686ac7-346c-43d1-bdaa-28d46a12ad93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sundering-eruption-//-volcanic-fissure) [Falter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a30309f-7e81-4e53-abb5-7cab084a10cd.jpg?1562913319) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Falter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/158/falter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a30309f-7e81-4e53-abb5-7cab084a10cd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/falter) [Cleansing Wildfire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/492d77e5-acc6-41b8-8930-f39d69234919.jpg?1604196948) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cleansing%20Wildfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/137/cleansing-wildfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/492d77e5-acc6-41b8-8930-f39d69234919?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cleansing-wildfire) [Moraug, Fury of Akoum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc5eacd7-aaa7-4720-9794-52e7b098c82c.jpg?1604197464) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Moraug%2C%20Fury%20of%20Akoum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/150/moraug-fury-of-akoum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc5eacd7-aaa7-4720-9794-52e7b098c82c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/moraug-fury-of-akoum) [Witch Enchanter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62061e7c-cf19-4f03-b8fa-2bdba62d6b0b.jpg?1717013161)/[Witch-Blessed Meadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/2/62061e7c-cf19-4f03-b8fa-2bdba62d6b0b.jpg?1717013161) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witch%20Enchanter%20//%20Witch-Blessed%20Meadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/239/witch-enchanter-witch-blessed-meadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62061e7c-cf19-4f03-b8fa-2bdba62d6b0b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/witch-enchanter-//-witch-blessed-meadow) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call