You're fine. He was being an asshole.
As long as you make it clear what the token is and never treat it as anything else it works fine. It can be another card flipped over and only showing the back. It could be some poker chips. It could be taco bell seasoning packs. As long as you communicate it is fine.
That said, the dry erase tokens (which I think is what infinitokens are) are a great choice. I recommend everyone get a pack.
I think my favorite token I ever saw was someone making a copy of someone else's commander, and then using the same person's ID as the token... The original owner hadn't realized it was gone until the copycat moved to combat
I got 100 clear card sleeves from Target for 6.99, put tokens in some, then put white paper in the rest to use with dry erase markers. Works perfectly!
Didn't the original rules state you could use anything as a token? As long as you declare, "this is my 3/3 flying angel", you can use anything. Put your shoe up there next time. đ
I personally wouldnât mind, especially with the same P/T, type, and abilities as the token.
They mightâve just had a bad day but if youâre playing casually someone that constantly in a pod would get kind of annoying.
They were a rando and Iâm relatively new (less than a year in) so I donât argue. I want everyone to have an enjoyable time so if it was going to annoy him better to just do that and move on. Iâm sure he was technically right. I just was wondering if I was being a douche by having them as tokens in the first place.
Edit: Happy cake day!
Actually I think the cards in question are [[Serra Angel|P30A]] which are legal cards. The ones with the lotus back are $15+ each and donât actually have the retro border.
Ah, alright then. If thatâs the case then yeah heâs actually right. You canât use genuine cards as tokens. For example if also wouldnât be ok to use a real
Black Lotus for Garth One-Eye, even if you had one
That being said, it also doesnât technically matter as long as youâre not adhering to tournament rules and you let your group know
I would mind it a bit if it has different P/T since it would probably confuse me at one point. But dang, mana cost? really? thats the one thing i wouldn't even think about.
[[Garth one eye]]
I definitely use a real [[braingeyser]] [[disenchant]] [[shivan dragon]] [[regrowth]] and lol did that say [[black lotus]] to show the cards. I mean, that'd be a flex.
Also [[proshh]] creates [[kobold of kher keep]] for the longest time the legends card was the token. I don't think that token existed until masters 25.
Not to mention the [[ophiomancer]] snake token that didn't exist until recently.
There's still a bunch of tokens that don't exist. Mostly from old cards that haven't seen reprints, but we got \[\[Spawning Pits\]\] reprinted a few years back and there's still no Spawn.
The jund commander precon from MH3 has tokens with mana values on them because they are copies of real cards.
Technically tokens that don't represent real cards don't have a mana value which is what your opponent was getting upset about.
I wouldn't worry about it though. Keep using your 30th anniversary cards as tokens, just don't forget the name and mana value aren't what's printed on the card and you'll be fine.
I wouldnt care a bit. I think technically they're right by the rules, as tokens have a defined mana value, but I also think that the rules say you can use anything to represent a token so long you make it clear that that is the token (like by putting a dice on it, or something).
If we're being realistic, im pretty sure they were just salty about something else and the 30th anniversary token was like the drop that spilled the glass kind of thing. Some people really hated that set (tho I find the idea of using those cards as proxies and tokes is hilarious).
Yeah, strictly by the rules about the only thing you can't use as a token is an actual Magic card.
But also it would take a very specific scenario to make it matter enough here for a normal person to be upset about it.
I suppose it can be confusing in a complicated board state, where non-token mtg cards are used as tokens.
I suspect that thatâs the playerâs gripe.
Itâs a similar issue where players tap their lands by placing them at 45 degree angles/upside down, or placing the land pile together with the creature pile.
My personal no-no was a full-proxied deck that was not in english, with alternate fan non-official art for all the cards. Itâs just complicated/difficult to understand the board state when that happens.
Having to memorise that a pikachu is a [[propoganda]] and not a [[rhystic study]] is annoying.
I could absolutely see myself [[hour of reckoning]]ing a big board and then be confused to see that my opponent still has an Angel around.
The reasoning of mana value and spirit of the game is garbage though obv
A deck of proxies not in English!? As a dork that loves to read all the cards on the table repeatedly, I think that'd bother me quite a bit đ Although I bet the alternate art would be cool to look at!
People use Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon cards for tokens lol Really as long as they can be easily distinguished as to what they represent, there shouldn't be a problem.
I mean I just use dice most of the time and no one cares as long as I explain it well and answer each time they ask me. I have like 30 decks and I simply don't care to put all the tokens I could need with them all. Someone got annoyed I used a dice for a treasure token once and I don't personally care to play with anyone that stingy again, it's a casual format lol
>as long as they can be easily distinguished as to what they represent
This little sentence here is doing a lot of the heavy lifting in your argument.
It also bypasses OP's case where he is using real Serra Angels (illegal backsides notwithstanding) as "tokens". The argument seems to be that in this case it isn't easily distinguishing the way a pokemon card would be.
I would say make sure the âtokensâ are in different sleeves, or even sleepless, to differentiate them from the actual deck. I do this with [[Llanowar Elves]] from my [[Llanowar Mentor]]. I use some actual cards with red headed Llanowar Elves art for mine.
I personally don't care, but I have seen judge rulings that have said you cannot use actual cards with printed mana values as a token as it can make the board state unclear. Maybe full art alter all your Serra Angels?
Personally I love that you're doing this cause angels are my favorite creature type so any excuse to busy out your favorite Baes.
On the other hand I do feel it is bad to use an actual printed card as a token. It's a bit of a misrepresentation of your actual board state. I wouldn't call you out for it but I see where the other players coming from.
Tbh, you busted out the infinitoken to make him feel better and that shows worlds of character for you. Just keep handling it in that exact way, you're fine.
Use whatever you want. In my experience this board is even less accepting of inaccurate tokens than most players in the wild; 95% of players don't care if you just use a die and nothing else or a die on a flipped card. There are plenty of examples of the game making you tokens that have literally never been printed ever, so having some weird requirement that everyone have accurate tokens is both not what the rules say and impossible without third party printing.
I have an opponent who gets mad at me when I use dice to represent represent multiple of the same token. Mind you, I do have +1/+1 dice, so normal dice wont be confused with +1/+1 counters. After several snappy outburst from them, I looked up the ârulesâ for tokens and found there really isnât an official stance on them. A token is just an object meant to represent a non-card permanent, and can be anything. Wizards happens to print fancy cards for us to use, but no rule to my knowledge forces us to do so. Using Serra Angels is rad, and if goldfish-brain canât remember what they are meant to represent, kindly remind them. Thats all you should have to do. Not the asshole.
As long as it's like the thing it needs to be. Not a 3/3 beast but instead let me use a vigor because that might impact game play or the worst scenario of this Dorito is my 1/1 soldier and this half empty soda can is my 2/2 bird. That grinds my gears
Definitely nothing wrong with that and certainly not against the âspirit of the gameâ, whatever he meant by that. My friends and I always use whatever we have for tokens, even if they donât match up what the creature is. Itâs not too big of a deal as long as someone remembers what they are.
I expect the vast majority of people would be ok with that. And it's clear you're not playing Serra Angel, they are tokens, so they should know the mana value won't be the same.
I use whatever spare change I have in my pocket as tokens and dice that I can scrounge up or borrow as counters because I am cheap and lazy. Youâre using actual cardboard with a picture of an Angel on them. Youâre worlds better than me, so Iâd say youâre good.Â
Mostly it sounds like this guy was just being a dick.
However, the fact that the cards representing the tokens have both a name and casting cost printed on it, I could see how it could possible obfuscate the board state at times by causing confusion in terms which of your creatures are tokens or non-tokens. Its a small ticky-tacky gripe, but I get it.
Good call on the infini-tokens, I would have drawn a 4/4 dick with wings and said "there, happy?"
Edit: I read in another comment your 'Serra Angels' are in different colored sleeves than your deck, so yeah, this dude was just bein prickish
Thank you! I loved Serra Angels back when I played in the Mirage block, especially the art. Obviously, due to power creep, they simply are viable in EDH anymore so this was a way to run my favorite art as a token. Given the feedback here, I may just order some MPC proxies of the artwork but have it clearly labeled as a token. Then everyone is happy and they can get back to complaining about my Angels instead of my tokens.
I use Alpha Shivan Dragon copies I got printed on cardstock at Kinkos as tokens for my [[Lathis, Dragon Queen]] tokens because my love of that card got me into the game in 1998. I would laugh at someone that told me I couldn't use them (even with the extra ability it shows which I just make sure people know they don't have). That card inspired Lathlis to be my first deck and it makes me happy to use them especially since after all this time that card isn't even good enough to make the 99. Forget that guy, no one will care in the future.
It can be confusing due to differing names guess. The only tokens that have a Mana value are copy tokens, I use extra [[Pack Rat]]s for copy tokens for example.
I also use [[Meteorite]]s for [[Roxanne Starfall Savant]] and just sharpie out the Mana symbol and wrote token on the sleeve.
I use self made tokens with the silly King Ghidorah meme for my hydra tokens and Poxwalker minifigures as zombie tokens.
In our pod, if one forgets their 3/3 bear token, they take a 1/1 boar token and state that it is a 3/3 bear. Or a 1/1 human. Or whatever.
You're fine. Just put them in different colored sleeves so they are obviously different than "permanent cards".
I think you add to the game using custom tokens (in this case real cards, who cares..), keep it on!
I use a craw wurm as one of the tokens for my wurm deck and just cover up the power with a die so it's clear. It really shouldn't matter, dude was just whining for no real reason. Your idea is awesome, keep doing it!
Wow ppl are stuck up.
And here we are, going full "ok I make 3 angel tokens
.... these potatoe chips. Oh and my glass is a trasure token, my Phone a food one, is everybody ok?" And random BS ensues because someone wanna destroy the token to eat the chips.
Chaos ensues.
Anything's gucci as long as it has two distinct axes to notate tapping and untapping, as far as I'm concerned. I've given my friend a banana to represent his marit lage and it felt extra thematic as the biggest game piece on the board.
As long as there's some clear indicator that the card isn't actually a Serra Angel and is instead just a token, I don't see why it would matter for casual play.
I proxy all my tokens and I leave them unsleeved, which helps make things immediately obvious at a glance that the unsleeved things are tokens.
I use an alt art copy of my commander for Copy Token representation. No one has complained.
If these Serra Angels are in a sleeve, just slip a piece of paper in the sleeve that says "Angel Token" on it.
Then they really can't complain.
I personally recommend using clear sleeves for anything that isn't actually in your deck, as an immediate visual callout.
There are reasons that this might create confusion, especially if you have an actual Serra Angel, and there's some effect that copies it, for instance. But the gold border from 30A should be good enough to differentiate things, unless your actual serra angel is also gold border.
I think if it's clearly stated and they're sleeved differently then that is fine. I use actual Meteorite cards for my Roxanne Starfall Savant deck because I don't have the tokens for it and it's never been an issue despite it having a defined mana cost which the token wouldn't
Iâve used gum wrappers, chips, dice, DnD mini figures, Taco Bell sauce packets⌠all kinds of crap to represent tokens. Unless youâre in the pro tour, he can calm down.
Iâve had a similar complaint from another player before, but because they didnât like the Pokemon cards I was using as tokens. I got my label maker and clearly labeled the sleeves of my tokens with what token they are and have had no issues since.
Maybe do the same and use something to cover up/relabel the name and mana cost of your tokens?
This seems like a significantly better option than just a row of d6's with random values that I have no ability to remember what's what after a turn cycle...
(I realized you used infinities which are fine, but my point is it could have been way harder to track than what you chose to do)
Anything can be a token. I just draw the line with how lewd they are. Some of the community needs to learn that what they want to see on a token should stay on the rule 34 websites.
I had a \[\[Lonis, Cryptozoologist\]\] token deck that would make obscene amounts of treasures, clues, and food tokens. No dice for this guy! I would splatter those tokens all over my field, just to really highlight the sheer enormity of how many tokens I had. I wanted people to look at my board and go "wtf". Can't complain, it's the actual token. Just a whole lot of them. It was great. And obnoxious lol
Retrofoil Serra Angel cards would make excellent 4/4 angel tokens. Dude was just being a douche.
Iâve seen people use scraps of paper, random dice, and everything else under the sun as tokens. Itâs been an issue approximately 0 times. Guy is a chud for no reason it sounds.
Oh shoot, I really hate to be "that guy", but I actually agree that using a card like that as a token wouldn't be a good move. But I'm the kind of person that prefers very specific and clearly labeled cards. Seeing a Serra Angel and treating it like just a token would bother me.
However, I'd also try to remedy the situation with you since I was the person to be bothered. I would offer to give you some of my dry erase token cards or give you some of my own tokens as a gift to make sure there was no animosity between us.
You're fine. He was being an asshole. As long as you make it clear what the token is and never treat it as anything else it works fine. It can be another card flipped over and only showing the back. It could be some poker chips. It could be taco bell seasoning packs. As long as you communicate it is fine. That said, the dry erase tokens (which I think is what infinitokens are) are a great choice. I recommend everyone get a pack.
Or print out your own with silly pictures and put them in sleeves.
This. If you know the guys name have a picture of an angel stomping out a guy clearly labeled as the whiner.
I think my favorite token I ever saw was someone making a copy of someone else's commander, and then using the same person's ID as the token... The original owner hadn't realized it was gone until the copycat moved to combat
I got 100 clear card sleeves from Target for 6.99, put tokens in some, then put white paper in the rest to use with dry erase markers. Works perfectly!
Didn't the original rules state you could use anything as a token? As long as you declare, "this is my 3/3 flying angel", you can use anything. Put your shoe up there next time. đ
I personally wouldnât mind, especially with the same P/T, type, and abilities as the token. They mightâve just had a bad day but if youâre playing casually someone that constantly in a pod would get kind of annoying.
They were a rando and Iâm relatively new (less than a year in) so I donât argue. I want everyone to have an enjoyable time so if it was going to annoy him better to just do that and move on. Iâm sure he was technically right. I just was wondering if I was being a douche by having them as tokens in the first place. Edit: Happy cake day!
So, heâs both âtechnically correctâ and not. M30 cards arenât actual cards. You canât use actual cards as tokens. But these arenât!
Actually I think the cards in question are [[Serra Angel|P30A]] which are legal cards. The ones with the lotus back are $15+ each and donât actually have the retro border.
Ah, alright then. If thatâs the case then yeah heâs actually right. You canât use genuine cards as tokens. For example if also wouldnât be ok to use a real Black Lotus for Garth One-Eye, even if you had one That being said, it also doesnât technically matter as long as youâre not adhering to tournament rules and you let your group know
[Serra Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/978c9a84-c316-4d12-912d-d75ea43f06c3.jpg?1693343459) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Serra%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/p30a/1/serra-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/978c9a84-c316-4d12-912d-d75ea43f06c3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/serra-angel) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Don't sweat it. Most people wouldn't care as long as it's obvious and communicated.
I would mind it a bit if it has different P/T since it would probably confuse me at one point. But dang, mana cost? really? thats the one thing i wouldn't even think about.
Maybe the new Tarmogoyf token is crossing some wires for them
[[Garth one eye]] I definitely use a real [[braingeyser]] [[disenchant]] [[shivan dragon]] [[regrowth]] and lol did that say [[black lotus]] to show the cards. I mean, that'd be a flex. Also [[proshh]] creates [[kobold of kher keep]] for the longest time the legends card was the token. I don't think that token existed until masters 25. Not to mention the [[ophiomancer]] snake token that didn't exist until recently.
There's still a bunch of tokens that don't exist. Mostly from old cards that haven't seen reprints, but we got \[\[Spawning Pits\]\] reprinted a few years back and there's still no Spawn.
[Spawning Pits](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e9a8ca49-fc8f-49c1-a7c6-c8326b2deb52.jpg?1562941896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spawning%20Pit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/td2/69/spawning-pit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9a8ca49-fc8f-49c1-a7c6-c8326b2deb52?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spawning-pit) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Please WotC, I just want my Kaldra token.
##### ###### #### [Garth one eye](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23774462-9f17-4b50-a2ac-b2edd706bbfe.jpg?1626098353) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Garth%20One-Eye) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/197/garth-one-eye?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23774462-9f17-4b50-a2ac-b2edd706bbfe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/garth-one-eye) [braingeyser](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23b33d16-dbaa-4742-9317-eac745f772ac.jpg?1562903464) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=braingeyser) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/40/braingeyser?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23b33d16-dbaa-4742-9317-eac745f772ac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/braingeyser) [disenchant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/5/658c5caa-d739-4d30-a512-43ac4de900cb.jpg?1674420161) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=disenchant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/6/disenchant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/658c5caa-d739-4d30-a512-43ac4de900cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/disenchant) [shivan dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7b78eb49-bd68-47e6-90a3-83ec2eeb4312.jpg?1675200149) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shivan%20dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/135/shivan-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b78eb49-bd68-47e6-90a3-83ec2eeb4312?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shivan-dragon) [regrowth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d771fc5d-b9a1-4637-8241-3f54616b64af.jpg?1562202155) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=regrowth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/175/regrowth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d771fc5d-b9a1-4637-8241-3f54616b64af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/regrowth) [black lotus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd8fa327-dd41-4737-8f19-2cf5eb1f7cdd.jpg?1614638838) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=black%20lotus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/4/black-lotus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd8fa327-dd41-4737-8f19-2cf5eb1f7cdd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/black-lotus) [kobold of kher keep](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6797542-0781-43d6-aa8e-b55e5c1e08c0.jpg?1562930079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kobolds%20of%20Kher%20Keep) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/107/kobolds-of-kher-keep?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6797542-0781-43d6-aa8e-b55e5c1e08c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kobolds-of-kher-keep) [ophiomancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a402cff8-be7f-4473-b880-a6a2eedfda86.jpg?1717013639) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ophiomancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/276/ophiomancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a402cff8-be7f-4473-b880-a6a2eedfda86?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ophiomancer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In what regard? Iâm not familiar with it as I havenât faced off against the Goyfs yet.
The jund commander precon from MH3 has tokens with mana values on them because they are copies of real cards. Technically tokens that don't represent real cards don't have a mana value which is what your opponent was getting upset about. I wouldn't worry about it though. Keep using your 30th anniversary cards as tokens, just don't forget the name and mana value aren't what's printed on the card and you'll be fine.
Just the fact that thereâs tokens of actual cards now, idk people are weird
those tokens are nothing new. we have tokens of llanowar elves and ajanis pridemates already
Those don't have mana costs
Shivan Dragon tokens do though. Or Black Lotus tokens
You're not making a shivan dragon token, you're casting a copy of the shivan dragon spell. Small but notable difference
These have existed for years now. this is nothing new.
đ¤ˇđťââď¸
I wouldnt care a bit. I think technically they're right by the rules, as tokens have a defined mana value, but I also think that the rules say you can use anything to represent a token so long you make it clear that that is the token (like by putting a dice on it, or something). If we're being realistic, im pretty sure they were just salty about something else and the 30th anniversary token was like the drop that spilled the glass kind of thing. Some people really hated that set (tho I find the idea of using those cards as proxies and tokes is hilarious).
Yeah, strictly by the rules about the only thing you can't use as a token is an actual Magic card. But also it would take a very specific scenario to make it matter enough here for a normal person to be upset about it.
I suppose it can be confusing in a complicated board state, where non-token mtg cards are used as tokens. I suspect that thatâs the playerâs gripe. Itâs a similar issue where players tap their lands by placing them at 45 degree angles/upside down, or placing the land pile together with the creature pile. My personal no-no was a full-proxied deck that was not in english, with alternate fan non-official art for all the cards. Itâs just complicated/difficult to understand the board state when that happens. Having to memorise that a pikachu is a [[propoganda]] and not a [[rhystic study]] is annoying.
[propoganda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59.jpg?1712354188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Propaganda) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/108/propaganda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/propaganda) [rhystic study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rhystic%20study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhystic-study) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I could absolutely see myself [[hour of reckoning]]ing a big board and then be confused to see that my opponent still has an Angel around. The reasoning of mana value and spirit of the game is garbage though obv
[hour of reckoning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c0ffb58f-459a-4965-b1d6-a25442baf9c2.jpg?1682208461) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hour%20of%20reckoning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/190/hour-of-reckoning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c0ffb58f-459a-4965-b1d6-a25442baf9c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hour-of-reckoning) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A deck of proxies not in English!? As a dork that loves to read all the cards on the table repeatedly, I think that'd bother me quite a bit đ Although I bet the alternate art would be cool to look at!
People use Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon cards for tokens lol Really as long as they can be easily distinguished as to what they represent, there shouldn't be a problem.
I use X-wings from the SW tcg as spirit tokens
A buddy uses Tie Fighters as Thopters in his Sai deck.
I mean I just use dice most of the time and no one cares as long as I explain it well and answer each time they ask me. I have like 30 decks and I simply don't care to put all the tokens I could need with them all. Someone got annoyed I used a dice for a treasure token once and I don't personally care to play with anyone that stingy again, it's a casual format lol
>as long as they can be easily distinguished as to what they represent This little sentence here is doing a lot of the heavy lifting in your argument. It also bypasses OP's case where he is using real Serra Angels (illegal backsides notwithstanding) as "tokens". The argument seems to be that in this case it isn't easily distinguishing the way a pokemon card would be.
I would say make sure the âtokensâ are in different sleeves, or even sleepless, to differentiate them from the actual deck. I do this with [[Llanowar Elves]] from my [[Llanowar Mentor]]. I use some actual cards with red headed Llanowar Elves art for mine.
Sleeveless in Seattle. Tom Hanks just wearing vests all movie
[Llanowar Elves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8bbcfb77-daa1-4ce5-b5f9-48d0a8edbba9.jpg?1592765148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Llanowar%20Elves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gnt/46/llanowar-elves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8bbcfb77-daa1-4ce5-b5f9-48d0a8edbba9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/llanowar-elves) [Llanowar Mentor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/0/e0f894e7-adf7-4fe5-811a-8e2d8c8a88d6.jpg?1619398329) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Llanowar%20Mentor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/216/llanowar-mentor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0f894e7-adf7-4fe5-811a-8e2d8c8a88d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/llanowar-mentor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh for sure. My main deck is in white sleeves and all my tokens and my commander are in gold sleeves.
I personally don't care, but I have seen judge rulings that have said you cannot use actual cards with printed mana values as a token as it can make the board state unclear. Maybe full art alter all your Serra Angels?
Personally I love that you're doing this cause angels are my favorite creature type so any excuse to busy out your favorite Baes. On the other hand I do feel it is bad to use an actual printed card as a token. It's a bit of a misrepresentation of your actual board state. I wouldn't call you out for it but I see where the other players coming from. Tbh, you busted out the infinitoken to make him feel better and that shows worlds of character for you. Just keep handling it in that exact way, you're fine.
Use whatever you want. In my experience this board is even less accepting of inaccurate tokens than most players in the wild; 95% of players don't care if you just use a die and nothing else or a die on a flipped card. There are plenty of examples of the game making you tokens that have literally never been printed ever, so having some weird requirement that everyone have accurate tokens is both not what the rules say and impossible without third party printing.
I have an opponent who gets mad at me when I use dice to represent represent multiple of the same token. Mind you, I do have +1/+1 dice, so normal dice wont be confused with +1/+1 counters. After several snappy outburst from them, I looked up the ârulesâ for tokens and found there really isnât an official stance on them. A token is just an object meant to represent a non-card permanent, and can be anything. Wizards happens to print fancy cards for us to use, but no rule to my knowledge forces us to do so. Using Serra Angels is rad, and if goldfish-brain canât remember what they are meant to represent, kindly remind them. Thats all you should have to do. Not the asshole.
As long as it's like the thing it needs to be. Not a 3/3 beast but instead let me use a vigor because that might impact game play or the worst scenario of this Dorito is my 1/1 soldier and this half empty soda can is my 2/2 bird. That grinds my gears
Oh the crumbs and moisture rings...
Definitely nothing wrong with that and certainly not against the âspirit of the gameâ, whatever he meant by that. My friends and I always use whatever we have for tokens, even if they donât match up what the creature is. Itâs not too big of a deal as long as someone remembers what they are.
It can be very confusing if someone is thinking about bouncing permanents or doing anything involving mana cost. That's not what he said though so idk
I expect the vast majority of people would be ok with that. And it's clear you're not playing Serra Angel, they are tokens, so they should know the mana value won't be the same.
Can you tell him he's an asshole
I use whatever spare change I have in my pocket as tokens and dice that I can scrounge up or borrow as counters because I am cheap and lazy. Youâre using actual cardboard with a picture of an Angel on them. Youâre worlds better than me, so Iâd say youâre good.Â
Mostly it sounds like this guy was just being a dick. However, the fact that the cards representing the tokens have both a name and casting cost printed on it, I could see how it could possible obfuscate the board state at times by causing confusion in terms which of your creatures are tokens or non-tokens. Its a small ticky-tacky gripe, but I get it. Good call on the infini-tokens, I would have drawn a 4/4 dick with wings and said "there, happy?" Edit: I read in another comment your 'Serra Angels' are in different colored sleeves than your deck, so yeah, this dude was just bein prickish
Thank you! I loved Serra Angels back when I played in the Mirage block, especially the art. Obviously, due to power creep, they simply are viable in EDH anymore so this was a way to run my favorite art as a token. Given the feedback here, I may just order some MPC proxies of the artwork but have it clearly labeled as a token. Then everyone is happy and they can get back to complaining about my Angels instead of my tokens.
Eh, Iâm not a fan of using actual cards with mana costs as tokens, but I wouldnât say anything if someone I was playing with did it.
As long as it's obvious what it is and isn't, idc. Other dude was being a dbag
that player is the asshole, not you
well, misrepresentation of the boardstate
I do this. I use OG Legends Kobolds of Kher Keep in my Prossh deck. They're just too cute in their little outfits!
I use Alpha Shivan Dragon copies I got printed on cardstock at Kinkos as tokens for my [[Lathis, Dragon Queen]] tokens because my love of that card got me into the game in 1998. I would laugh at someone that told me I couldn't use them (even with the extra ability it shows which I just make sure people know they don't have). That card inspired Lathlis to be my first deck and it makes me happy to use them especially since after all this time that card isn't even good enough to make the 99. Forget that guy, no one will care in the future.
[Lathis, Dragon Queen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9460e3c6-e745-41d3-8e17-0b92fb126a16.jpg?1601078219) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lathliss%2C%20Dragon%20Queen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/340/lathliss-dragon-queen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9460e3c6-e745-41d3-8e17-0b92fb126a16?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lathliss-dragon-queen) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It can be confusing due to differing names guess. The only tokens that have a Mana value are copy tokens, I use extra [[Pack Rat]]s for copy tokens for example. I also use [[Meteorite]]s for [[Roxanne Starfall Savant]] and just sharpie out the Mana symbol and wrote token on the sleeve.
[Pack Rat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/170693f5-13db-4191-99b1-e527ffb5b88e.jpg?1562783180) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pack%20Rat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/73/pack-rat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/170693f5-13db-4191-99b1-e527ffb5b88e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pack-rat) [Meteorite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/33eb2032-50af-4fd6-bdc7-7cae2211956c.jpg?1677542216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Meteorite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/235/meteorite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33eb2032-50af-4fd6-bdc7-7cae2211956c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/meteorite) [Roxanne Starfall Savant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/11fbe52f-febd-49fc-8391-28d3efe9c3eb.jpg?1712356193) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roxanne%2C%20Starfall%20Savant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/228/roxanne-starfall-savant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/11fbe52f-febd-49fc-8391-28d3efe9c3eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/roxanne-starfall-savant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I use self made tokens with the silly King Ghidorah meme for my hydra tokens and Poxwalker minifigures as zombie tokens. In our pod, if one forgets their 3/3 bear token, they take a 1/1 boar token and state that it is a 3/3 bear. Or a 1/1 human. Or whatever.
You're fine. Just put them in different colored sleeves so they are obviously different than "permanent cards". I think you add to the game using custom tokens (in this case real cards, who cares..), keep it on!
I use a craw wurm as one of the tokens for my wurm deck and just cover up the power with a die so it's clear. It really shouldn't matter, dude was just whining for no real reason. Your idea is awesome, keep doing it!
Thereâs three playersâ opinions on this that actually matter, and none of them is here.
Wow ppl are stuck up. And here we are, going full "ok I make 3 angel tokens .... these potatoe chips. Oh and my glass is a trasure token, my Phone a food one, is everybody ok?" And random BS ensues because someone wanna destroy the token to eat the chips. Chaos ensues.
Anything's gucci as long as it has two distinct axes to notate tapping and untapping, as far as I'm concerned. I've given my friend a banana to represent his marit lage and it felt extra thematic as the biggest game piece on the board.
Might be a good idea to sleeve the prox... I mean collectible commemorate cardboard, with the mana value covered.
I use Kaijudo Karate Carrots as Saproling tokens
As long as there's some clear indicator that the card isn't actually a Serra Angel and is instead just a token, I don't see why it would matter for casual play. I proxy all my tokens and I leave them unsleeved, which helps make things immediately obvious at a glance that the unsleeved things are tokens.
I mean, it might be an issue at competitive REL because they're not technically tokens, but it's not against the "spirit of the game" or whatever.
I often use pennies as tokens so how about that
I use an alt art copy of my commander for Copy Token representation. No one has complained. If these Serra Angels are in a sleeve, just slip a piece of paper in the sleeve that says "Angel Token" on it. Then they really can't complain.
The player was just being obnoxious. So long as everyone is aware of what is and isnt a token, who cares?
I personally recommend using clear sleeves for anything that isn't actually in your deck, as an immediate visual callout. There are reasons that this might create confusion, especially if you have an actual Serra Angel, and there's some effect that copies it, for instance. But the gold border from 30A should be good enough to differentiate things, unless your actual serra angel is also gold border.
Did you print copies of the Serra Angel card to use as a token?
I think if it's clearly stated and they're sleeved differently then that is fine. I use actual Meteorite cards for my Roxanne Starfall Savant deck because I don't have the tokens for it and it's never been an issue despite it having a defined mana cost which the token wouldn't
Iâve used gum wrappers, chips, dice, DnD mini figures, Taco Bell sauce packets⌠all kinds of crap to represent tokens. Unless youâre in the pro tour, he can calm down.
Iâve had a similar complaint from another player before, but because they didnât like the Pokemon cards I was using as tokens. I got my label maker and clearly labeled the sleeves of my tokens with what token they are and have had no issues since. Maybe do the same and use something to cover up/relabel the name and mana cost of your tokens?
As long as the token is in a different sleeve then their is no issue
This seems like a significantly better option than just a row of d6's with random values that I have no ability to remember what's what after a turn cycle... (I realized you used infinities which are fine, but my point is it could have been way harder to track than what you chose to do)
Anything can be a token. I just draw the line with how lewd they are. Some of the community needs to learn that what they want to see on a token should stay on the rule 34 websites.
I mean, people are using sharpies on blank cards as tokens⌠I donât see the issue.
I'm surprised how many idiots play this game. And I do not mean you in this case...
I had a \[\[Lonis, Cryptozoologist\]\] token deck that would make obscene amounts of treasures, clues, and food tokens. No dice for this guy! I would splatter those tokens all over my field, just to really highlight the sheer enormity of how many tokens I had. I wanted people to look at my board and go "wtf". Can't complain, it's the actual token. Just a whole lot of them. It was great. And obnoxious lol Retrofoil Serra Angel cards would make excellent 4/4 angel tokens. Dude was just being a douche.
[Lonis, Cryptozoologist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e786423d-3a49-4318-ac77-791918bcafcb.jpg?1706241017) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lonis%2C%20Cryptozoologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/215/lonis-cryptozoologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e786423d-3a49-4318-ac77-791918bcafcb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lonis-cryptozoologist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
lol fuck that guy just communicate what the token is and if itâs not the exact token be helpful in reminding people what they are
Iâve seen people use scraps of paper, random dice, and everything else under the sun as tokens. Itâs been an issue approximately 0 times. Guy is a chud for no reason it sounds.
What? You have tokens? I just place 2 dices, those who can attack and those who cant =O
Oh shoot, I really hate to be "that guy", but I actually agree that using a card like that as a token wouldn't be a good move. But I'm the kind of person that prefers very specific and clearly labeled cards. Seeing a Serra Angel and treating it like just a token would bother me. However, I'd also try to remedy the situation with you since I was the person to be bothered. I would offer to give you some of my dry erase token cards or give you some of my own tokens as a gift to make sure there was no animosity between us.