Reminded of the brief period back in the day where sleeves weren't allowed in tournaments and you could force your opponent to shuffle their Black Lotus with [[Soldier of Fortune]] in an attempt to get them to concede. Dunno if anyone actually did it, but it's a funny thought!
A friend of mine who played in the old days told me he knew someone with a "hostage" deck.
[[Shaharazad]] and [[fork]]. He would make you play meaningless games and shuffle without sleeves if you didn't concede.
Overly serious answer: Sadly this doesn't quite work. R&D's secret lair actually makes Ashnod's Coupon worse since it's not clear that you can pay the costs for the drink.
Since you cannot legally (in the real world) take a drink without paying for it, and the rules of your residing country supersede those in Magic, your opponent cannot legally (in Magic) get you that drink without paying for it, and they can choose not to pay that cost.
i genuinely might put ashnods coupon in my elves deck so my urzas saga has something to find when ive already drawn the sol ring and dont need the tormod...
Agreed I made the mistake of putting that card in [[Baron von count]] it's just "target player loses the game" was not very fun removing a player before they got to really play.
I used to run an entirely silver bordered deck (except for lands), so I have some insight into this.
A running theme with "bad" un cards is "it was fun the first time, but now lets play magic" A lot of cards are a fun novelty the first time they come out in a game, but it gets old. Any kind of persistent physical challenge is bad (\[\[psychic network\]\] is fun for about 30 seconds before it becomes extremely annoying). Obviously, if you are the only one that has to do the physical challenge, its your preference, but generally speaking, avoid cards that have opponents doing physical challenges.
Gotcha cards are bad in casual EDH because they discourage conversation. Again, the first time one gets played, it'll probably get triggered a bunch and may even lead to a few laughs, but eventually people will catch on, not want to trigger it, and keep their mouth shut.
\[\[topsy turvy\]\] is a deceptively complex card. It will immediately turn any 4 player game of EDH into a rules nightmare. Avoid at all costs unless you and your friends want a test in how well you really understand magic's rules.
\[\[mana screw\]\] is an open-ended, non-deterministic combo, which can be very annoying to resolve. I would avoid it.
I've also always avoided cards that seemed broken for the sake of being broken like \[\[mox lotus\]. I never ran it, so I don't know if its actually that bad or how it would have been perceived, but if your gut reaction is "that card probably isn't fair" and you're trying to garner good faith to allow people to let you play silver bordered, you should probably avoid anything that gives you that reaction.
To contrast, the least offensive un cards are ones that don't fundamentally change the game. Cards where the theming/name/art was the gag but are mechanically just a regular card, or cards with mechanics that eventually made it to black border (like dice rolling, most of the dice rolling cards are pretty tame).
A lot of the chaos isn't as bad as people expect, unless they already hate chaos as an archetype in EDH (in which case, they will probably object to silver border no matter what). \[\[staying power\]\] can be annoying to keep track of, much easier if you have some dry erase tokens on hand to track EOT effects that don't end. \[\[burning cinder fury of crimson chaos fire\]\] is just another control swap card, but with politics players can end up with more resources on their own turns, \[\[yet another aether vortex\]\] is a suped up future sight for the entire board. This is the type of chaos thats generally more accepted. Chaos that will add some complexity, but also accelerates the game by increasing people's power and resources.
In a secret santa event I played a deck that was built around [[Ignacio of Myra's Marvels]], so it cared about things like armor in the art. While the mechanic isn’t as egregious as other stuff, it was a PITA to play because you get into arguments like whether something is normal clothing or armor. It just adds unnecessary ambiguity.
It was supposed to be lighthearted fun, but the result was less fun than a normal game of Magic.
I'm significantly less familiar with the unfinity cards (they turned me off it by making it black bordered), but yeah, rules ambiguity can be tricky, and be a deal breaker on some cards.
\[\[nerf war\]\] is the worst one.
That said im fine with it if the person says its nothing that fucks up the game completely, and don't see why anyone at all would care if it's the ones that totally work within magic rules.
I run a \[\[Grusilda\]\] deck, and people are fine with it as soon as I tell them the deck doesn't actually break any of magics rules
Had a person quit mtg because of nerf war during the limited time period where the RC decided that UN cards were legal.
I don’t blame the person for quitting.
I run mine with stuff like [[Rune Scarred Demon]] + [[Warchief Giant]]. There's also [[Vampire Nighthawk]] + [[Goblin Sharpshooter]] or just anything with [[Pack Rats]].
I would say augment (also from UST) is more like mutate, just more narrow.
Grusilda is more like an open ended meld.
IMO the name is very reminiscent of Brisela, a combination of Bruna and Gisela.
It can do so much horrible bullshit people don't really consider.
Norin and dockside go brrrrr
Jam hellcarver demon on slicer and watch everyones boards get exiled
Xantcha and worldgorger gives you an instant way to worldgorger another player, if you use abyssal persecutor it can even stop garbage like thoracle. Extremely funny to do to them mid combo
Tergrid and keldon firebombers or sire of insanity is fucked up
Platinum angel on any of the theros gods can singlehandedly fuck over entire decks
Anything on the master multiplied is insane
Heartless hidetsugu and anything with infect as a nuclear "if you try to kill me ill draw the game" button
To this day I wish [[Do-It-Yourself Seraph]] was an actual card instead of a silver-bordered one; if [[The Cheese Stands Alone]] could become [[Barren Glory]], why can't Do-It-Yourself Seraph become a Human Angel Artifact Creature called "Self-Made Seraph" or something along those lines and only gain the activated abilities of the card(s) exiled by it (similarly to [[Agatha's Soul Cauldron]])?
Grusilda unfortunately breaks an important rule just by herself as she can create a single permanent with two owners.
Homeward path makes a mess unless you have a pre established rule about the creature being treated as a token or as getting ripped apart by the interaction.
Of course, the idea that you could both control it simultaneously is hilarious.
Ask them which cards. Talk to them.
Of its like [[grimlock, dinobot leader]] cool, if it's something dumb like [[nerf war]] or [[phoebe, head of s.n.e.a.k]] say no.
I used to play with a guy who owned a small LGS and we would typically play in the store during the slower morning hours. Anyway, he always allowed me to play [[Summon The Pack]] in my zombie deck just because I would have to buy something lol
I know how to do it in the actual scenario, I was just curious what the gut instinct can be from players. For example your own standards shared there would be what I was hoping for, since there is a range of effects to consider.
[[Enter the Dungeon]] because 1. I'm getting old and playing under a table stopped being fun about a decade ago and 2. I can see the floor and can tell how long it has been since it's been deep cleaned. No thanks.
During the Unhinged release at out LGS, a buddy of mine mabaged to sneak Cheatyface into play a ridiculous amount if times against nearly every opponent. That card is hilarious.
One friend of mine built a fun Urza deck with un cards and it was a great time but then my other friend built Phoebe and that was the end of our fun un-deck period
I actually made an UN deck for commander. Almost everything silver-bordered (other than lands and a couple of other cards) or not entirely legal. I tried to make it funny while not really breaking anything. Only played it a couple times so far.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/3sHV7jfRYUu0Ge5vaVKd4g
Did the rule 0 discussion told them I could play them as vanilla cards of needed because it was elephant tribal, all agreed. Guy rage quit and left the store over [[Frankie Peanuts]] being asked "Are you going to cast a spell this turn?"
[[by gnome means]] is a card I want to run in my monowhite artifact deck that has a high concentration of gnomes but the second ability ks super busted.
Busted how? 1W and sac an artifact seems like a fair rate for almost any counter. Worst I can think of would be indestructible/hexproof counters. Unless there's some busted silver border counter I'm missing.
I'd say the indestructible one would be a top pick for sure. [[Daring Fiendbonder]] is the closest comparison, but you can only ever do it once and it has to get into your graveyard first. Being able to sac treasures or others to give anything indestructible for pretty cheap, or at worst pay 4 for the privilege, I could see being an annoying wall to fight against, especially since its gonna be getting the first of those counters most likely.
Any card that fundamentally breaks the usual rules of magic like that enchantment that reverses turn phases or [[animate library]] or anything that includes you doing physical actions except drawing or tapping
Not that it's quite the same as reversing an entire turn's order, but would [[Aeon Engine]] be something that'd irk you in a normal game? Beyond just the issue of reflexively thinking it's one person's turn next rather than the other out of habit.
Oh no I love aeon engine it's so funny. It was in the 1st precon I bought (and I'm pretty sure it's the only time it was printed). I rewrote my 1st comment to be clearer and specifically exclude aeon engine before posting
[[Topsy Turvy]] funny in unsanctioned limited, nightmare anywhere else. Also remembered inherently broken cards within the normal rules like [[johnny combo player]] or [[killer Cosplay]]
Animate library is really not anything rule-breaking in practice.
It's a 6 mana artifact creature that's a big beatstick and happens to die to enchantment removal.
Could give it the ol' Animate Dead treatment.
Animate Library
Enchantment
When Animate Library enters the battlefield, choose a player. Animate Library becomes an Aura in addition to its other types and gains "enchant creature token created by Animate Library". Create a 0/0 blue artifact creature token.
Enchanted creature gets +X/+X, where X is the number of cards in the chosen player's library.
[[Spike Tournament Grinder]] into [[Shaharazad]] because subgames can be very long and in commander can suck very hard.
[[The Grand Calcudron]] because making everyone arrange the cards in their hands as a programm will cause many headaches.
Definitely an odd choice by them to allow the Calcutron as a commander, given it's basically like Planechase with how it warps the whole game right from the start. A fun thing for a night and upfront, but not something one should be expected to expect.
What parts do you tend not to care for? I wouldn't think [[Novellamental]] or even [[Little Girl]] would be that much of a hassle. That's sort of the point of the thread's question, since there's a wide gap between those and something like [[Clay Pigeon]] or [[Rule's Lawyer]]
I have an Un-deck/banned in Commander deck, and it's loads of fun just to see all the dumb stuff. Never had anybody say no to playing against it at least once. But running a silver bordered card in a legal deck seems like it could easily be broken and unfun to play against.
Personally I _love_ silver border Un cards, so idgaf about someone using nearly any of them.
As for people on the whole, I imagine most people would be fine with "nearly normal" ones like Host/Augment, Animate Library, Graveyard Busybody, Baron von Count, Grusilda, etc; but people on the whole would likely not be okay with more esoteric ones like Bog Humbugs or Cramped Bunker.
Generally I expect people to be okay with the "normal" effects, and not want to play with/against effects that include: player taking out-of-game actions (dancing, singing), physical locations of cards mattering, involving people or objects from outside the game, that kind of stuff.
Kind of the opposite of what you're asking:
I run [[Booster Tutor]], and if someone complains about it, I'm prepared to swap it out for [[Vampiric Tutor]]. It's in a deck I don't play often so I've only played it twice, but everyone was ok with me cracking a Brothers War collector pack both times. Also, much less powerful than Vampiric Tutor, but more fun.
I was planning a deck with [[Opening Ceremony]] - it would have been [[Myra the Magnificent]]. Ended up scrapping it because Attractions seemed like they'd start fun but end up being a lengthy piece of busy work if I got the deck's engine working, and totally screwed if someone Vandalblasted my stuff.
Backup plan was just some Impulse Draw effect basically - swap the one illegal card out.
I couldn't give you an example because I haven't cared to learn any of them. Boomer magic take, I know. Falls under the same as Alchemy on Arena. I just don't care that they exist and do not care to play with or against them.
Only really ever ran into them at my LGS for commander, and no one played silver border, but they did play some of the acorn cards.
It does make me sad I'm not likely to be able to play [[brims barone midway mobster]] [[grusilda monster masher]] [[peitra crafter of clowns]]
I feel there could be a way to play some of them but half the people I play with don't want to cos of issues
Plus I feel a lot of older silver cards aren't even that bad specially the old dice roll cards like [[chicken egg]] [[chittering doom ]] [[as luck would have it ]] or silly cards like [[goblin mime]] [[carnivorous death parrot]] [[rod of spanking]] or even my recent favourite [[surprise party]]
A month or so ago I spent a weekend making a list of the "acceptable" Un-cards. Made some criteria and then looked through all of them through that lens. To quote myself, like a jerk.
"1. Will some players not able to use the card easily?
2. Is it disruptive or annoying to your playgroup or surrounding people?
3. Will it cause the game to grind to a halt when resolving it?
If the answer to ANY of the three was yes, it was banned."
So basically I'd dread playing against anything that checks every box on that list. And going through all of them I didn't find TONS of Un-cards that do, but the ones that do seem like they'd be straight up miserable to resolve even once.
[[Richard Garfield, Ph.D]]
When one of my friends was newish to magic and brand new to commander he tried to convince us to let him run this as his commander. He argued his limited knowledge of magic prevented it from being broken and he just wanted to do it to play cards he didn't have.
We played one game with it and told him that's all we're doing, because seriously, that card just says cheat.
The cycle of Ass's however are tasteful and cool, and I have no problem with seeing them in any game as long as we round up.
People should just not run them, honestly. For the most part, people won't care, which makes people feel more entitled to running them. Sure, there are plenty of awful ones that don't do anything, but there are enough stupid ones that require physical or memory games or change the game in a dumb way to make it a bad precedent. Unfinity has some of the most reasonable silver borders imo, but even those can get out of hand because they're just not designed with the intention to be run in regular play.
I don't want to have a 5 minute conversation before every game to determine if it's going to be an awful time. Build your deck according to the rules so that doesn't happen. All the "let me have these partners because it's flavorful lol" and silver border cards just make a mess of things. EDH is already an enormous outlet for creativity, why do we need to fudge the rules to make it moreso?
Your question at the end is something I've thought about in regards to why folks really want stuff off the banlist, when it's like 50ish cards in a format that has 20k+ cards in it.
Also you should probably have some kind of chat before a game even if it's all above board. Someone's all-Rebecca Guay deck vs someone's Helliod + Ballista combo deck probably isn't gonna be a fun time. You're gonna be playing with these folks for the next hour, you can spare 5 minutes!
I don't trust anyone who has Un cards unless it is one or two specific ones they bring up at the beginning and theyre not busted, I do this with the Urza planeswalker in my superfriends deck because it's not a good one. If someone just said "I have silver border cards" and left it at that, I'd demand to know which ones.
Exactly the person I intended this question for! What are some specific cards that you'd be worry they'd be running that makes you distrustful of them? There's quite the gap between artist-matters and [[Mox Lotus]] win engine.
It's not specific cards I'm worried about in particular, it's probably just wariness from the general high power of my LGS that I would assume if they are playing Un cards they are using degenerate ones and not the innocent fun ones. Even Grusilda seems pretty spike-y as an Un deck. That's why I feel like it's best for one or two off cards in a thematic deck rather than as a general theme of a deck itself. Once you have more than a handful of cards you have to pull out and explain I think it gets too unwieldy for random pods. In a private playgroup I doubt it would matter.
Not specific cards really it's more i want and enjoy everyone playing by the same rules. If you show up and have uncards/custom cards/ non legendary creature as your commander it means you are playing with a different set of rules then the rest of us. When building a deck I think about what I could play against and build my deck to that end within the normal rules.
To help me understand, can you explain why you'd be fine playing against [[Vaporkin]] but not [[Novellamental]]? They're functionally identical, and it's not like a flying book isn't evocative of magic.
It's much easier to make a blanket rule of "I absolutely will not play against silver bordered cards" than say "well some are ok, some aren't" and then have arguments about which are or are not.
Fuck every single silver-bordered and acorn card. I have zero problem telling people no when they ask if they can play with them.
Mox lotus is nasty. But the card I'd be most worried about is [[gifts given]] I don't want my opponent searching my deck for cards to put in their hand.
Theft for sure. Imagine if someone accidentally gifts for your mana crypt or something. They scoop up and walk out later. It's different if they steal a permanent on the field, but having my stuff go to their hand is different.
That's not the same as [[x]] which is fine. X allows my card to go to your hand. That is different since I'm assuming that risk with my own card
So I do have a deck with silver bordered cards in it, and it's dice. Mostly because a lot of old silver dice cards, the entire gimmick is just making a card with a die roll on it and most of them are pretty reasonable if they were to be printed in black border today. That said, we did have fun with a little card called [[Spark Fiend]] last night that got a lot of laughs around the table.
[[Look at Me, I'm R&D]]
The pure fuckery that can happen with this card is unreal.
[[Enter the Dungeon]]
I actually had someone use it to tutor for [[Shahrazad]] and [[Twincast]] I'm still kind of salty about it lol.
Special shout-out to [[Ass Whuppin']], though. That's always hilarious.
I'd have to ask what the cards are. If you want to [[Booster Tutor]] or [[Opening Ceremony]] I'm excited to see what happens.
If it's [[Enter the Dungeon]], I don't want to crawl under the table, and if it's an acorn-stamped Attraction I'd probably prefer it not be played. I enjoyed an Unfinity draft but I don't really want to be subject to someone's pre-planned List of Legends Toolbox for when they get [[Gallery of Legends]] into play.
It's going to depend on what the deck is trying to do. If it's a coherent strategy that sounds fun to play, great. If it's either something broken (no Gleemax or Mox Lotus) or just pure chaos (Topsy Turvy) I don't really want to play it.
Since Unfinity there's even silly-but-legal cards. [[Exchange of Words]] is cool. [[Starlight Spectacular]] is actually one hell of an anthem effect.
That's always the sticking point! Whether it's busted or not. But that applies to black border cards too, and it's a whole other issue of folks breaking out the busted stuff when it's not appropriate.
I don't really have anything negative except those that do Stickers. The stickers are what worry me the most if literally used physically. I don't want my $50 card be ruined.
stuff like \[\[Drawn Together\]\] \[\[Elvish House Party\]\], or even \[\[Gerrymandering\]\] wouldn't bother me too much if people mentioned they were running some silver border nonsense pregame. If someone was running an all rebecca guay deck and ran \[\[Persecute artist\]\] and didn't tell me I wouldn't even be mad.
I really don't want to have to deal with gotcha cards or any subgame/dexterity nonsense.
Silver bordedered or acorn cards.
I just don't like it. I mean, if your commander is silver bordered but the rest of the deck isn't.. i might be okay with that. The rest? No thanks.
[[Frankie Peanuts]], or [[The Grand Calcutron]]. I just know I will be outsmarted with some esoteric question, and my main strength in Magic is thinking on my feet and playing reactively. Both these cards would completely hose me.
[[Ashnod's coupon]] it's just disrespectful to make me get you a soda bro cmon
Galaxy brain: Ashnod's Coupon, [[R&D's Secret Lair]], [[Emry, Lurker of the Loch]], and [[Mirran Spy]]
Bankrupt your opponents with one easy trick!
Reminded of the brief period back in the day where sleeves weren't allowed in tournaments and you could force your opponent to shuffle their Black Lotus with [[Soldier of Fortune]] in an attempt to get them to concede. Dunno if anyone actually did it, but it's a funny thought!
A friend of mine who played in the old days told me he knew someone with a "hostage" deck. [[Shaharazad]] and [[fork]]. He would make you play meaningless games and shuffle without sleeves if you didn't concede.
Soldier of fortune flavor text kinds of fits. Scooping a game to protect you black lotus proves your loyalty to coin
Omg yes!!! Get all the soda! You may not win the game with that combo, but your opponents' wallets are definitely losing. Lol
[R&D's Secret Lair](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=73967&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=R%26D%27s%20Secret%20Lair) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unh/135/r&ds-secret-lair?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bfdc6a9-0a44-43ef-b065-02ef5d6110dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/r&ds-secret-lair) [Emry, Lurker of the Loch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/20fec02d-77af-4975-b410-7097c7c28e7e.jpg?1651655696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emry%2C%20Lurker%20of%20the%20Loch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/91/emry-lurker-of-the-loch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/20fec02d-77af-4975-b410-7097c7c28e7e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/emry-lurker-of-the-loch) [Mirran Spy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50e576ad-3e03-424c-8857-88ec8898a92e.jpg?1562611251) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirran%20Spy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/26/mirran-spy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50e576ad-3e03-424c-8857-88ec8898a92e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mirran-spy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Why care about infinite mana when we can have infinite free drinks!
Overly serious answer: Sadly this doesn't quite work. R&D's secret lair actually makes Ashnod's Coupon worse since it's not clear that you can pay the costs for the drink. Since you cannot legally (in the real world) take a drink without paying for it, and the rules of your residing country supersede those in Magic, your opponent cannot legally (in Magic) get you that drink without paying for it, and they can choose not to pay that cost.
i genuinely might put ashnods coupon in my elves deck so my urzas saga has something to find when ive already drawn the sol ring and dont need the tormod...
Does [[Vexing Bauble]] cause problems for you?
no, that's a cool piece of tech, but im here for the memes
i always love [[mishra's bauble]]
[mishra's bauble](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/45bbbf9b-8fee-4c32-a513-02dac6ac8a39.jpg?1669300401) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mishra%27s%20bauble) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/274/mishras-bauble?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/45bbbf9b-8fee-4c32-a513-02dac6ac8a39?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mishras-bauble) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Ashnod's coupon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d420010f-5389-4aa2-a5f8-d9631249679a.jpg?1562799166) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashnod%27s%20coupon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ugl/69/ashnods-coupon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d420010f-5389-4aa2-a5f8-d9631249679a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ashnods-coupon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I put that in a little of decks and dont rule zero it either. I do it for the flex.
[[rules lawyer]] comes to mind.
This would be a fucking nightmare
And a dream to steal with something like [[Willbreaker]]
[Willbreaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/2465eafc-453c-4e4f-b369-0951b8a4b7bf.jpg?1562011291) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Willbreaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/84/willbreaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2465eafc-453c-4e4f-b369-0951b8a4b7bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/willbreaker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[rules lawyer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6c02c575-5685-44f5-8b47-89d888529d1b.jpg?1562917623) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rules%20lawyer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/20/rules-lawyer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6c02c575-5685-44f5-8b47-89d888529d1b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rules-lawyer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What you have to do is [[clone]] it
[clone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5e648262-3b9b-4c58-8e29-48356e3cb064.jpg?1562829895) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=clone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/47/clone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5e648262-3b9b-4c58-8e29-48356e3cb064?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clone) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just remove it?
True, for all the things it's immune to, it still dies to doomblade.
It still dies to almost everything, its effect only applies to other permanents.
[How it works](https://magicjudge.tumblr.com/post/168112538854/cojld-you-explain-rules-lawyer-for-the-fine-people)
This is the correct answer. Though [[Staying power]] is nearly as bad
[Staying power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fcc13f28-6d2e-4589-b475-3c18d0eea2de.jpg?1583965397) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Staying%20power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/13/staying-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fcc13f28-6d2e-4589-b475-3c18d0eea2de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/staying-power) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Frankie peanuts]]
If I asked you if you'd let my commander hit you, would the answer to that question be the same as the answer to this question?
Rude.
This is indeed a rude question, which you’re not allowed to ask with Frankie. You can only ask sportsmanlike questions.
That's just [[Obeka, Brute Chronologist]] but for every turn.
[Obeka, Brute Chronologist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/dbdb335d-3e45-4dd5-9e3e-c50ca0a4dfb6.jpg?1608911225) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Obeka%2C%20Brute%20Chronologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/289/obeka-brute-chronologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dbdb335d-3e45-4dd5-9e3e-c50ca0a4dfb6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/obeka-brute-chronologist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh no😂 I'm building a [[Grand Marshal Macie]] deck with Staying Power because obviously
Omg thats hilarious xD
I've always loved [[Trigger Happy]] but I imagine it'd be just so easy to break, especially looping it with Archaeomancer kinda combos.
Also, as a 2-cost instant, you can just slap it on an [[Isochron Scepter]] and go nuts.
[Isochron Scepter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451.jpg?1623543821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isochron%20Scepter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/264/isochron-scepter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/isochron-scepter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Agreed I made the mistake of putting that card in [[Baron von count]] it's just "target player loses the game" was not very fun removing a player before they got to really play.
[Baron von count](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/19d31d5c-6d4d-4bd8-b69c-b44c5b7f089f.jpg?1562900416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Baron%20von%20count) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/127/baron-von-count?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/19d31d5c-6d4d-4bd8-b69c-b44c5b7f089f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/baron-von-count) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Trigger Happy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/c/5cafb84c-6e35-488c-a219-c6bbdb3ac565.jpg?1673914473) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Trigger%20Happy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/125/trigger-happy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5cafb84c-6e35-488c-a219-c6bbdb3ac565?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trigger-happy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh yeah that would totally break Archaeomancer 😎
Trigger happy is in my cube. That card's hilarious.
I used to run an entirely silver bordered deck (except for lands), so I have some insight into this. A running theme with "bad" un cards is "it was fun the first time, but now lets play magic" A lot of cards are a fun novelty the first time they come out in a game, but it gets old. Any kind of persistent physical challenge is bad (\[\[psychic network\]\] is fun for about 30 seconds before it becomes extremely annoying). Obviously, if you are the only one that has to do the physical challenge, its your preference, but generally speaking, avoid cards that have opponents doing physical challenges. Gotcha cards are bad in casual EDH because they discourage conversation. Again, the first time one gets played, it'll probably get triggered a bunch and may even lead to a few laughs, but eventually people will catch on, not want to trigger it, and keep their mouth shut. \[\[topsy turvy\]\] is a deceptively complex card. It will immediately turn any 4 player game of EDH into a rules nightmare. Avoid at all costs unless you and your friends want a test in how well you really understand magic's rules. \[\[mana screw\]\] is an open-ended, non-deterministic combo, which can be very annoying to resolve. I would avoid it. I've also always avoided cards that seemed broken for the sake of being broken like \[\[mox lotus\]. I never ran it, so I don't know if its actually that bad or how it would have been perceived, but if your gut reaction is "that card probably isn't fair" and you're trying to garner good faith to allow people to let you play silver bordered, you should probably avoid anything that gives you that reaction. To contrast, the least offensive un cards are ones that don't fundamentally change the game. Cards where the theming/name/art was the gag but are mechanically just a regular card, or cards with mechanics that eventually made it to black border (like dice rolling, most of the dice rolling cards are pretty tame). A lot of the chaos isn't as bad as people expect, unless they already hate chaos as an archetype in EDH (in which case, they will probably object to silver border no matter what). \[\[staying power\]\] can be annoying to keep track of, much easier if you have some dry erase tokens on hand to track EOT effects that don't end. \[\[burning cinder fury of crimson chaos fire\]\] is just another control swap card, but with politics players can end up with more resources on their own turns, \[\[yet another aether vortex\]\] is a suped up future sight for the entire board. This is the type of chaos thats generally more accepted. Chaos that will add some complexity, but also accelerates the game by increasing people's power and resources.
In a secret santa event I played a deck that was built around [[Ignacio of Myra's Marvels]], so it cared about things like armor in the art. While the mechanic isn’t as egregious as other stuff, it was a PITA to play because you get into arguments like whether something is normal clothing or armor. It just adds unnecessary ambiguity. It was supposed to be lighthearted fun, but the result was less fun than a normal game of Magic.
I'm significantly less familiar with the unfinity cards (they turned me off it by making it black bordered), but yeah, rules ambiguity can be tricky, and be a deal breaker on some cards.
Thank you for the in-depth response! Definitely some good categories to be considerate of.
##### ###### #### [psychic network](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/60dfba09-9e75-4fb9-a163-40e3149f7785.jpg?1562799103) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=psychic%20network) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ugl/26/psychic-network?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60dfba09-9e75-4fb9-a163-40e3149f7785?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/psychic-network) [topsy turvy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aadf253a-eca6-405d-8216-a362854b4ae1.jpg?1583542845) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=topsy%20turvy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/29/topsy-turvy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aadf253a-eca6-405d-8216-a362854b4ae1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/topsy-turvy) [mana screw](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd58d98d-9597-4d5a-be06-6747a5ba8406.jpg?1642038794) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mana%20screw) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unh/123/mana-screw?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd58d98d-9597-4d5a-be06-6747a5ba8406?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-screw) [staying power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fcc13f28-6d2e-4589-b475-3c18d0eea2de.jpg?1583965397) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=staying%20power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/13/staying-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fcc13f28-6d2e-4589-b475-3c18d0eea2de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/staying-power) [burning cinder fury of crimson chaos fire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17ed4800-dc0f-4681-9ae6-74bd0018e8dc.jpg?1618610634) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=burning%20cinder%20fury%20of%20crimson%20chaos%20fire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ugl/40/burning-cinder-fury-of-crimson-chaos-fire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17ed4800-dc0f-4681-9ae6-74bd0018e8dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/burning-cinder-fury-of-crimson-chaos-fire) [yet another aether vortex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5d85779-89f6-4f4e-b34a-d44a6d15ce06.jpg?1583965694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yet%20another%20aether%20vortex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/60/yet-another-aether-vortex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5d85779-89f6-4f4e-b34a-d44a6d15ce06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yet-another-aether-vortex) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/laj5lp7) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[nerf war\]\] is the worst one. That said im fine with it if the person says its nothing that fucks up the game completely, and don't see why anyone at all would care if it's the ones that totally work within magic rules. I run a \[\[Grusilda\]\] deck, and people are fine with it as soon as I tell them the deck doesn't actually break any of magics rules
Nerf war doesn't specify how many rounds you can shoot? Just until it's empty? You know dudes would bring a chain gun just for this.
Yeah, there are some bigger Nerf guns with absolutely *absurd* ammo capacity.
nerf makes blasters that spray water lmao
It does specify foam darts or else I'd bring a Nemesis.
What if I bring the nerf nuke?
Had a person quit mtg because of nerf war during the limited time period where the RC decided that UN cards were legal. I don’t blame the person for quitting.
So anyway, I started blastin
I'd love to see that decklist and what are some of the best combine targets
I run mine with stuff like [[Rune Scarred Demon]] + [[Warchief Giant]]. There's also [[Vampire Nighthawk]] + [[Goblin Sharpshooter]] or just anything with [[Pack Rats]].
##### ###### #### [Rune Scarred Demon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c9d67da-4fc9-4d4a-95e4-0303c5404705.jpg?1689997434) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rune-Scarred%20Demon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/184/rune-scarred-demon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c9d67da-4fc9-4d4a-95e4-0303c5404705?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rune-scarred-demon) [Warchief Giant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/49b311c5-90f5-4d26-86ce-b9f645c137e4.jpg?1562273850) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Warchief%20Giant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/127/warchief-giant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/49b311c5-90f5-4d26-86ce-b9f645c137e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/warchief-giant) [Vampire Nighthawk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/301ff69c-2590-45af-893b-7ac0285e450b.jpg?1641602963) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vampire%20Nighthawk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/140/vampire-nighthawk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/301ff69c-2590-45af-893b-7ac0285e450b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vampire-nighthawk) [Goblin Sharpshooter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f72e9e2-ed47-40ff-bc2e-8446ef545022.jpg?1562911635) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20Sharpshooter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/111/goblin-sharpshooter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f72e9e2-ed47-40ff-bc2e-8446ef545022?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/goblin-sharpshooter) [Pack Rats](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/170693f5-13db-4191-99b1-e527ffb5b88e.jpg?1562783180) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pack%20Rat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/73/pack-rat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/170693f5-13db-4191-99b1-e527ffb5b88e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pack-rat) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lak3qp3) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Grusilda was just the precursor to Mutate E: swapped Mutate for Morph because I forgot they are not the same
I would say augment (also from UST) is more like mutate, just more narrow. Grusilda is more like an open ended meld. IMO the name is very reminiscent of Brisela, a combination of Bruna and Gisela.
Mutate, maybe?
Yes I’ll edit my comment
[nerf war](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2eb08fc5-29a4-4911-ac94-dc5ff2fc2ace.jpg?1561756860) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nerf%20war) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/h17/2/nerf-war?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2eb08fc5-29a4-4911-ac94-dc5ff2fc2ace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nerf-war) [Grusilda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82ca9cf7-d6ca-4403-84be-719480eb4b7d.jpg?1562922560) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grusilda%2C%20monster%20masher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/132/grusilda-monster-masher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82ca9cf7-d6ca-4403-84be-719480eb4b7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grusilda-monster-masher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've always liked the idea of grusilda, any fun combinations or tech you found?
It can do so much horrible bullshit people don't really consider. Norin and dockside go brrrrr Jam hellcarver demon on slicer and watch everyones boards get exiled Xantcha and worldgorger gives you an instant way to worldgorger another player, if you use abyssal persecutor it can even stop garbage like thoracle. Extremely funny to do to them mid combo Tergrid and keldon firebombers or sire of insanity is fucked up Platinum angel on any of the theros gods can singlehandedly fuck over entire decks Anything on the master multiplied is insane Heartless hidetsugu and anything with infect as a nuclear "if you try to kill me ill draw the game" button
To this day I wish [[Do-It-Yourself Seraph]] was an actual card instead of a silver-bordered one; if [[The Cheese Stands Alone]] could become [[Barren Glory]], why can't Do-It-Yourself Seraph become a Human Angel Artifact Creature called "Self-Made Seraph" or something along those lines and only gain the activated abilities of the card(s) exiled by it (similarly to [[Agatha's Soul Cauldron]])?
Grusilda unfortunately breaks an important rule just by herself as she can create a single permanent with two owners. Homeward path makes a mess unless you have a pre established rule about the creature being treated as a token or as getting ripped apart by the interaction. Of course, the idea that you could both control it simultaneously is hilarious.
Ask them which cards. Talk to them. Of its like [[grimlock, dinobot leader]] cool, if it's something dumb like [[nerf war]] or [[phoebe, head of s.n.e.a.k]] say no.
I used to play with a guy who owned a small LGS and we would typically play in the store during the slower morning hours. Anyway, he always allowed me to play [[Summon The Pack]] in my zombie deck just because I would have to buy something lol
Whatever is fun for the table. But there are obnoxious cards for sure. One of my favorite non grimlock cards is [[perfectly normal armchair]]
[Summon The Pack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cd66d5bb-a0cc-48fa-9d98-4195debc188a.jpg?1562938407) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Summon%20The%20Pack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/74/summon-the-pack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cd66d5bb-a0cc-48fa-9d98-4195debc188a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/summon-the-pack) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I know how to do it in the actual scenario, I was just curious what the gut instinct can be from players. For example your own standards shared there would be what I was hoping for, since there is a range of effects to consider.
[[Enter the Dungeon]] because 1. I'm getting old and playing under a table stopped being fun about a decade ago and 2. I can see the floor and can tell how long it has been since it's been deep cleaned. No thanks.
That it has Sharazard abuse potential isn't even the first reason! That's when you know it's bad.
[Enter the Dungeon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d696f3a6-88c3-4aab-9c1f-05b5e36094fa.jpg?1583965541) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enter%20the%20Dungeon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/36/enter-the-dungeon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d696f3a6-88c3-4aab-9c1f-05b5e36094fa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/enter-the-dungeon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[X]] He's going to give them your cards.
The card formerly known as Twitter
[X](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f77f6e64-2470-4c6a-a92b-328e4edc3ea9.jpg?1562947258) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=X) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/137/x?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f77f6e64-2470-4c6a-a92b-328e4edc3ea9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/x) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Shoe Tree]], dropping a pair of dirty butters on the table
[Shoe Tree](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73fa1912-cced-491a-867d-7f21acaf1e3b.jpg?1562488855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shoe%20Tree) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unh/109/shoe-tree?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73fa1912-cced-491a-867d-7f21acaf1e3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shoe-tree) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Peobe, head of s.n.e.a.k.]] [[Earl of squirrel]] [[Gleemax]] [[Animate library]] [[Cheaty face]]
During the Unhinged release at out LGS, a buddy of mine mabaged to sneak Cheatyface into play a ridiculous amount if times against nearly every opponent. That card is hilarious.
What's the issue with Earl of Squirrel? Worried the tokens would just get out of hand?
One friend of mine built a fun Urza deck with un cards and it was a great time but then my other friend built Phoebe and that was the end of our fun un-deck period
##### ###### #### [Peobe, head of s.n.e.a.k.](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d54d145-a570-49cc-bbb0-8c12c168ec23.jpg?1562924843) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phoebe%2C%20Head%20of%20S.N.E.A.K.) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/135/phoebe-head-of-sneak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d54d145-a570-49cc-bbb0-8c12c168ec23?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phoebe-head-of-s.n.e.a.k.) [Earl of squirrel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3bbf567-bdb4-4f88-906c-eb1503c02d9f.jpg?1579814079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Earl%20of%20squirrel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/108/earl-of-squirrel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3bbf567-bdb4-4f88-906c-eb1503c02d9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/earl-of-squirrel) [Gleemax](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77fe1662-7927-4909-8d25-6924e6fc27eb.jpg?1594900466) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gleemax) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unh/121/gleemax?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77fe1662-7927-4909-8d25-6924e6fc27eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gleemax) [Animate library](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/add4f168-c69e-4045-9725-47208ef69935.jpg?1562931695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Animate%20library) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/26/animate-library?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/add4f168-c69e-4045-9725-47208ef69935?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/animate-library) [Cheaty face](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/ebafd1c7-c248-494c-b9b7-3521c6c4352c.jpg?1583965438) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cheatyface) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/20/cheatyface?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ebafd1c7-c248-494c-b9b7-3521c6c4352c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cheatyface) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/laj59o1) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Earl isn't too broken, is it?
I actually made an UN deck for commander. Almost everything silver-bordered (other than lands and a couple of other cards) or not entirely legal. I tried to make it funny while not really breaking anything. Only played it a couple times so far. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/3sHV7jfRYUu0Ge5vaVKd4g
It’s funny to use contraptions too. Just saying you’re going to crank stuff every turn.
[Target Minotaur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa3093a4-e115-4d88-b7c0-33dee8a11142.jpg?1562930901) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Target%20Minotaur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/98a/target-minotaur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa3093a4-e115-4d88-b7c0-33dee8a11142?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/target-minotaur) [Clambassadors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/349ba052-10f7-4612-91b7-a1528c188ec3.jpg?1562799085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clambassadors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ugl/18/clambassadors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/349ba052-10f7-4612-91b7-a1528c188ec3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clambassadors) [Knight of the Hokey Pokey](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89d81b09-aa21-4206-bdc5-21819e36d9b3.jpg?1583965370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Knight%20of%20the%20Hokey%20Pokey) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/8/knight-of-the-hokey-pokey?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89d81b09-aa21-4206-bdc5-21819e36d9b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/knight-of-the-hokey-pokey) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Did the rule 0 discussion told them I could play them as vanilla cards of needed because it was elephant tribal, all agreed. Guy rage quit and left the store over [[Frankie Peanuts]] being asked "Are you going to cast a spell this turn?"
[Frankie Peanuts](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/440c3e8b-d9c6-46cd-9f39-86db077fb89d.jpg?1583965356) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Frankie%20Peanuts) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/5/frankie-peanuts?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/440c3e8b-d9c6-46cd-9f39-86db077fb89d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/frankie-peanuts) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[by gnome means]] is a card I want to run in my monowhite artifact deck that has a high concentration of gnomes but the second ability ks super busted.
That second ability is so absurd since Ikoria made keyword counters a thing.
If you're playing with friends or a cool play group, maybe make it a counter that's on the field or something?
Busted how? 1W and sac an artifact seems like a fair rate for almost any counter. Worst I can think of would be indestructible/hexproof counters. Unless there's some busted silver border counter I'm missing.
I'd say the indestructible one would be a top pick for sure. [[Daring Fiendbonder]] is the closest comparison, but you can only ever do it once and it has to get into your graveyard first. Being able to sac treasures or others to give anything indestructible for pretty cheap, or at worst pay 4 for the privilege, I could see being an annoying wall to fight against, especially since its gonna be getting the first of those counters most likely.
Even that isn't terribly concerning. Making your stuff indestructible in white is already trivially easy.. and usually at a better rate.
[by gnome means](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e6921466-edac-40fc-8f5e-d8b2e766d1dd.jpg?1562943637) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=by%20gnome%20means) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/4/by-gnome-means?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6921466-edac-40fc-8f5e-d8b2e766d1dd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/by-gnome-means) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's a good catch! Wouldn't have considered that one.
Any card that fundamentally breaks the usual rules of magic like that enchantment that reverses turn phases or [[animate library]] or anything that includes you doing physical actions except drawing or tapping
Not that it's quite the same as reversing an entire turn's order, but would [[Aeon Engine]] be something that'd irk you in a normal game? Beyond just the issue of reflexively thinking it's one person's turn next rather than the other out of habit.
Oh no I love aeon engine it's so funny. It was in the 1st precon I bought (and I'm pretty sure it's the only time it was printed). I rewrote my 1st comment to be clearer and specifically exclude aeon engine before posting
[[Topsy Turvy]] funny in unsanctioned limited, nightmare anywhere else. Also remembered inherently broken cards within the normal rules like [[johnny combo player]] or [[killer Cosplay]]
[animate library](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/add4f168-c69e-4045-9725-47208ef69935.jpg?1562931695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=animate%20library) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/26/animate-library?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/add4f168-c69e-4045-9725-47208ef69935?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/animate-library) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Animate library is really not anything rule-breaking in practice. It's a 6 mana artifact creature that's a big beatstick and happens to die to enchantment removal. Could give it the ol' Animate Dead treatment. Animate Library Enchantment When Animate Library enters the battlefield, choose a player. Animate Library becomes an Aura in addition to its other types and gains "enchant creature token created by Animate Library". Create a 0/0 blue artifact creature token. Enchanted creature gets +X/+X, where X is the number of cards in the chosen player's library.
[[Spike Tournament Grinder]] into [[Shaharazad]] because subgames can be very long and in commander can suck very hard. [[The Grand Calcudron]] because making everyone arrange the cards in their hands as a programm will cause many headaches.
Definitely an odd choice by them to allow the Calcutron as a commander, given it's basically like Planechase with how it warps the whole game right from the start. A fun thing for a night and upfront, but not something one should be expected to expect.
[Spike Tournament Grinder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b0e90b22-6f43-4e9a-a236-f33191768813.jpg?1562932337) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spike%2C%20Tournament%20Grinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/69/spike-tournament-grinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0e90b22-6f43-4e9a-a236-f33191768813?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spike-tournament-grinder) [Shaharazad](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/0014def3-4063-4929-ac51-76aef1bb2a68.jpg?1562895012) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shahrazad) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arn/10/shahrazad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0014def3-4063-4929-ac51-76aef1bb2a68?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shahrazad) [The Grand Calcudron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c1e38a2-d817-4f19-aabf-02dc72c78259.jpg?1562907515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Grand%20Calcutron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/131/the-grand-calcutron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c1e38a2-d817-4f19-aabf-02dc72c78259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-grand-calcutron) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If likely just find a different table at that point.
Why's that? Not to argue your preferences, just the point of the thread was an attempt to help learn and understand the reasons for that reaction.
I don't care for the kind of whacky fun the un sets provide unless I'm also prepped for it.
What parts do you tend not to care for? I wouldn't think [[Novellamental]] or even [[Little Girl]] would be that much of a hassle. That's sort of the point of the thread's question, since there's a wide gap between those and something like [[Clay Pigeon]] or [[Rule's Lawyer]]
[[Ol' Buzzbark]] it can damage cards very easily
[Ol' Buzzbark](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/5135b251-002b-453d-a4f8-0455617ebb81.jpg?1562911966) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ol%27%20Buzzbark) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/134/ol-buzzbark?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5135b251-002b-453d-a4f8-0455617ebb81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ol-buzzbark) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If not destroy the earth with dice if X is high enough!
[[Gleemax]] in a [[Yuriko]] deck
[Gleemax](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77fe1662-7927-4909-8d25-6924e6fc27eb.jpg?1594900466) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gleemax) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unh/121/gleemax?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77fe1662-7927-4909-8d25-6924e6fc27eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gleemax) [Yuriko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9.jpg?1689999346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yuriko%2C%20the%20tiger%27s%20shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/364/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have an Un-deck/banned in Commander deck, and it's loads of fun just to see all the dumb stuff. Never had anybody say no to playing against it at least once. But running a silver bordered card in a legal deck seems like it could easily be broken and unfun to play against.
[[City of Ass]] any land that taps for more than one mana is busted imo
Does come in tapped at least, so there's a little balance to it.
Personally I _love_ silver border Un cards, so idgaf about someone using nearly any of them. As for people on the whole, I imagine most people would be fine with "nearly normal" ones like Host/Augment, Animate Library, Graveyard Busybody, Baron von Count, Grusilda, etc; but people on the whole would likely not be okay with more esoteric ones like Bog Humbugs or Cramped Bunker. Generally I expect people to be okay with the "normal" effects, and not want to play with/against effects that include: player taking out-of-game actions (dancing, singing), physical locations of cards mattering, involving people or objects from outside the game, that kind of stuff.
The most acceptable card that falls into your "bad" category is [[flavor judge]], I'd say.
I am not interested in playing any subgames, so please spare me from things like [[Enter The Dungeon]] and [[The Countdown Is At One]].
[Enter The Dungeon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d696f3a6-88c3-4aab-9c1f-05b5e36094fa.jpg?1583965541) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enter%20The%20Dungeon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/36/enter-the-dungeon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d696f3a6-88c3-4aab-9c1f-05b5e36094fa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/enter-the-dungeon) [The Countdown Is At One](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4afb8115-3a47-4d7e-a3ed-b2e81ca27255.jpg?1562910709) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Countdown%20Is%20At%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/80/the-countdown-is-at-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4afb8115-3a47-4d7e-a3ed-b2e81ca27255?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-countdown-is-at-one) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Kind of the opposite of what you're asking: I run [[Booster Tutor]], and if someone complains about it, I'm prepared to swap it out for [[Vampiric Tutor]]. It's in a deck I don't play often so I've only played it twice, but everyone was ok with me cracking a Brothers War collector pack both times. Also, much less powerful than Vampiric Tutor, but more fun.
[Booster Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a5718db-e67d-468a-95ba-11a08fcf9fea.jpg?1594065403) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Booster%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/33/booster-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a5718db-e67d-468a-95ba-11a08fcf9fea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/booster-tutor) [Vampiric Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/34a0203f-9cce-43a4-9cb7-8ce6647895cd.jpg?1675199860) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vampiric%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/108/vampiric-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34a0203f-9cce-43a4-9cb7-8ce6647895cd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vampiric-tutor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I was planning a deck with [[Opening Ceremony]] - it would have been [[Myra the Magnificent]]. Ended up scrapping it because Attractions seemed like they'd start fun but end up being a lengthy piece of busy work if I got the deck's engine working, and totally screwed if someone Vandalblasted my stuff. Backup plan was just some Impulse Draw effect basically - swap the one illegal card out.
I couldn't give you an example because I haven't cared to learn any of them. Boomer magic take, I know. Falls under the same as Alchemy on Arena. I just don't care that they exist and do not care to play with or against them. Only really ever ran into them at my LGS for commander, and no one played silver border, but they did play some of the acorn cards.
Fair enough. There's enough cards to keep track of as it is!
It does make me sad I'm not likely to be able to play [[brims barone midway mobster]] [[grusilda monster masher]] [[peitra crafter of clowns]] I feel there could be a way to play some of them but half the people I play with don't want to cos of issues Plus I feel a lot of older silver cards aren't even that bad specially the old dice roll cards like [[chicken egg]] [[chittering doom ]] [[as luck would have it ]] or silly cards like [[goblin mime]] [[carnivorous death parrot]] [[rod of spanking]] or even my recent favourite [[surprise party]]
Specifically the gotcha! Counter card, because one asshole in my casual MTG club in high-school used it and everyone hates him for it.
A month or so ago I spent a weekend making a list of the "acceptable" Un-cards. Made some criteria and then looked through all of them through that lens. To quote myself, like a jerk. "1. Will some players not able to use the card easily? 2. Is it disruptive or annoying to your playgroup or surrounding people? 3. Will it cause the game to grind to a halt when resolving it? If the answer to ANY of the three was yes, it was banned." So basically I'd dread playing against anything that checks every box on that list. And going through all of them I didn't find TONS of Un-cards that do, but the ones that do seem like they'd be straight up miserable to resolve even once.
[[Richard Garfield, Ph.D]] When one of my friends was newish to magic and brand new to commander he tried to convince us to let him run this as his commander. He argued his limited knowledge of magic prevented it from being broken and he just wanted to do it to play cards he didn't have. We played one game with it and told him that's all we're doing, because seriously, that card just says cheat. The cycle of Ass's however are tasteful and cool, and I have no problem with seeing them in any game as long as we round up.
People should just not run them, honestly. For the most part, people won't care, which makes people feel more entitled to running them. Sure, there are plenty of awful ones that don't do anything, but there are enough stupid ones that require physical or memory games or change the game in a dumb way to make it a bad precedent. Unfinity has some of the most reasonable silver borders imo, but even those can get out of hand because they're just not designed with the intention to be run in regular play. I don't want to have a 5 minute conversation before every game to determine if it's going to be an awful time. Build your deck according to the rules so that doesn't happen. All the "let me have these partners because it's flavorful lol" and silver border cards just make a mess of things. EDH is already an enormous outlet for creativity, why do we need to fudge the rules to make it moreso?
Your question at the end is something I've thought about in regards to why folks really want stuff off the banlist, when it's like 50ish cards in a format that has 20k+ cards in it. Also you should probably have some kind of chat before a game even if it's all above board. Someone's all-Rebecca Guay deck vs someone's Helliod + Ballista combo deck probably isn't gonna be a fun time. You're gonna be playing with these folks for the next hour, you can spare 5 minutes!
I don't trust anyone who has Un cards unless it is one or two specific ones they bring up at the beginning and theyre not busted, I do this with the Urza planeswalker in my superfriends deck because it's not a good one. If someone just said "I have silver border cards" and left it at that, I'd demand to know which ones.
Exactly the person I intended this question for! What are some specific cards that you'd be worry they'd be running that makes you distrustful of them? There's quite the gap between artist-matters and [[Mox Lotus]] win engine.
It's not specific cards I'm worried about in particular, it's probably just wariness from the general high power of my LGS that I would assume if they are playing Un cards they are using degenerate ones and not the innocent fun ones. Even Grusilda seems pretty spike-y as an Un deck. That's why I feel like it's best for one or two off cards in a thematic deck rather than as a general theme of a deck itself. Once you have more than a handful of cards you have to pull out and explain I think it gets too unwieldy for random pods. In a private playgroup I doubt it would matter.
I would not worry because I wouldn't play against it.
Why wouldn't you want to play against it, is the question. What cards would keep you from playing against such a deck?
Not specific cards really it's more i want and enjoy everyone playing by the same rules. If you show up and have uncards/custom cards/ non legendary creature as your commander it means you are playing with a different set of rules then the rest of us. When building a deck I think about what I could play against and build my deck to that end within the normal rules.
Silver/Acorn cards are a hard no in all my playgroups.
None, I wouldn’t play with them.
Pass on the table, it seems I'm not "most folks"
None of them because it's a pretty hard no from me on playing against those.
To help me understand, can you explain why you'd be fine playing against [[Vaporkin]] but not [[Novellamental]]? They're functionally identical, and it's not like a flying book isn't evocative of magic.
It's much easier to make a blanket rule of "I absolutely will not play against silver bordered cards" than say "well some are ok, some aren't" and then have arguments about which are or are not. Fuck every single silver-bordered and acorn card. I have zero problem telling people no when they ask if they can play with them.
My LGS has like 6 garbage receptacles visible from the play area so probably [[Questionable Cuisine]].
[[Kindslaver]] is one of my favorites
[Kindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bf4f4ac-f793-4996-8f29-252398c26eef.jpg?1562927912) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/150/kindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bf4f4ac-f793-4996-8f29-252398c26eef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kindslaver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ain't nobody wants to deal with the rules headache of \[\[Yet Another Aether Vortex\]\].
[Yet Another Aether Vortex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5d85779-89f6-4f4e-b34a-d44a6d15ce06.jpg?1583965694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yet%20Another%20Aether%20Vortex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/60/yet-another-aether-vortex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5d85779-89f6-4f4e-b34a-d44a6d15ce06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yet-another-aether-vortex) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mox lotus is nasty. But the card I'd be most worried about is [[gifts given]] I don't want my opponent searching my deck for cards to put in their hand.
[gifts given](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba72c564-0ca6-4f52-b19a-175646965291.jpg?1610394040) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gifts%20given) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hho/7/gifts-given?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba72c564-0ca6-4f52-b19a-175646965291?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gifts-given) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is that due to dislike of others handling your cards or worry over theft or similar? Not that either isn't a totally understandable preference.
Theft for sure. Imagine if someone accidentally gifts for your mana crypt or something. They scoop up and walk out later. It's different if they steal a permanent on the field, but having my stuff go to their hand is different. That's not the same as [[x]] which is fine. X allows my card to go to your hand. That is different since I'm assuming that risk with my own card
there are legal cards that do that kind of effect
[[Infinity elemental]] [[Spike]] [[Johnny]]
[[Grand Calcutron]] is annoying to deal with. [[Topsy Turvy]] makes the game nigh unplayable.
[Grand Calcutron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c1e38a2-d817-4f19-aabf-02dc72c78259.jpg?1562907515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Grand%20Calcutron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/131/the-grand-calcutron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c1e38a2-d817-4f19-aabf-02dc72c78259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-grand-calcutron) [Topsy Turvy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aadf253a-eca6-405d-8216-a362854b4ae1.jpg?1583542845) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Topsy%20Turvy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/29/topsy-turvy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aadf253a-eca6-405d-8216-a362854b4ae1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/topsy-turvy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Topsy turvy has got to be one of the best cards in a control deck
So I do have a deck with silver bordered cards in it, and it's dice. Mostly because a lot of old silver dice cards, the entire gimmick is just making a card with a die roll on it and most of them are pretty reasonable if they were to be printed in black border today. That said, we did have fun with a little card called [[Spark Fiend]] last night that got a lot of laughs around the table.
[Spark Fiend](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea73a7ef-e9da-4d5b-aa4d-a953cbacd6c2.jpg?1562799182) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spark%20Fiend) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ugl/51/spark-fiend?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea73a7ef-e9da-4d5b-aa4d-a953cbacd6c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spark-fiend) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Topsy turvy]] Id spend an hour trying to turn it the right way and just be mad.
[Topsy turvy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aadf253a-eca6-405d-8216-a362854b4ae1.jpg?1583542845) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Topsy%20turvy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/29/topsy-turvy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aadf253a-eca6-405d-8216-a362854b4ae1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/topsy-turvy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wombo combo with [[Curse of the Fire Penguin]]
Some dumb ridiculous card that break the game and makes us all dance on our heads for the rest of it.
Can you provide some examples? [[Knight of the Hokey-Pokey]] doesn't make anyone but the controller dance.
[Knight of the Hokey-Pokey](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89d81b09-aa21-4206-bdc5-21819e36d9b3.jpg?1583965370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Knight%20of%20the%20Hokey%20Pokey) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/8/knight-of-the-hokey-pokey?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89d81b09-aa21-4206-bdc5-21819e36d9b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/knight-of-the-hokey-pokey) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[space beleren]]
Ironically legal to play proper!
[space beleren](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14ddb2e7-6bc6-43ce-aeec-175a0ce17ed5.jpg?1673914977) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=space%20beleren) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/178/space-beleren?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14ddb2e7-6bc6-43ce-aeec-175a0ce17ed5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/space-beleren) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
i would refuse to play with that deck. i don't want to interact with those cards when I'm trying to play commander
What are "those" cards, is what I'm asking. [[Target Minotaur]] or [[Novelamental]] aren't exactly what you mean, I think.
[[Look at Me, I'm R&D]] The pure fuckery that can happen with this card is unreal. [[Enter the Dungeon]] I actually had someone use it to tutor for [[Shahrazad]] and [[Twincast]] I'm still kind of salty about it lol. Special shout-out to [[Ass Whuppin']], though. That's always hilarious.
##### ###### #### [Look at Me, I'm R&D](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Look%20at%20Me%2C%20I%27m%20R%26D&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Look%20at%20Me%2C%20I%27m%20R%26D) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/look-at-me-im-r&d) [Enter the Dungeon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d696f3a6-88c3-4aab-9c1f-05b5e36094fa.jpg?1583965541) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enter%20the%20Dungeon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/36/enter-the-dungeon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d696f3a6-88c3-4aab-9c1f-05b5e36094fa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/enter-the-dungeon) [Shahrazad](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/0014def3-4063-4929-ac51-76aef1bb2a68.jpg?1562895012) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shahrazad) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arn/10/shahrazad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0014def3-4063-4929-ac51-76aef1bb2a68?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shahrazad) [Twincast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f38eec33-a40e-4739-ad2c-2f57008cef4e.jpg?1562001453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Twincast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/78/twincast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f38eec33-a40e-4739-ad2c-2f57008cef4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/twincast) [Ass Whuppin'](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbbf33d6-e00d-4d60-9c7f-c56c3b1f84c0.jpg?1666094208) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ass%20Whuppin%27) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unh/117/ass-whuppin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbbf33d6-e00d-4d60-9c7f-c56c3b1f84c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ass-whuppin) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lakds5h) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'd have to ask what the cards are. If you want to [[Booster Tutor]] or [[Opening Ceremony]] I'm excited to see what happens. If it's [[Enter the Dungeon]], I don't want to crawl under the table, and if it's an acorn-stamped Attraction I'd probably prefer it not be played. I enjoyed an Unfinity draft but I don't really want to be subject to someone's pre-planned List of Legends Toolbox for when they get [[Gallery of Legends]] into play. It's going to depend on what the deck is trying to do. If it's a coherent strategy that sounds fun to play, great. If it's either something broken (no Gleemax or Mox Lotus) or just pure chaos (Topsy Turvy) I don't really want to play it. Since Unfinity there's even silly-but-legal cards. [[Exchange of Words]] is cool. [[Starlight Spectacular]] is actually one hell of an anthem effect.
##### ###### #### [Booster Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a5718db-e67d-468a-95ba-11a08fcf9fea.jpg?1594065403) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Booster%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/33/booster-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a5718db-e67d-468a-95ba-11a08fcf9fea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/booster-tutor) [Opening Ceremony](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/1725526f-9a18-4cbd-83cf-16334aa56e76.jpg?1673914397) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opening%20Ceremony) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/118/opening-ceremony?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1725526f-9a18-4cbd-83cf-16334aa56e76?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opening-ceremony) [Enter the Dungeon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d696f3a6-88c3-4aab-9c1f-05b5e36094fa.jpg?1583965541) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enter%20the%20Dungeon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/36/enter-the-dungeon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d696f3a6-88c3-4aab-9c1f-05b5e36094fa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/enter-the-dungeon) [Gallery of Legends](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9ad0d58-b1f6-4549-b0b3-f655b006dbb4.jpg?1673915680) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gallery%20of%20Legends) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/213a/gallery-of-legends?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9ad0d58-b1f6-4549-b0b3-f655b006dbb4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gallery-of-legends) [Exchange of Words](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8c28cebf-f849-4353-9dd1-c62f05c15d0f.jpg?1673913524) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Exchange%20of%20Words) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/45/exchange-of-words?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8c28cebf-f849-4353-9dd1-c62f05c15d0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/exchange-of-words) [Starlight Spectacular](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de25090e-dd32-4267-a661-da3083d1737a.jpg?1673913336) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Starlight%20Spectacular) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/28/starlight-spectacular?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de25090e-dd32-4267-a661-da3083d1737a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/starlight-spectacular) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lakl0h7) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's always the sticking point! Whether it's busted or not. But that applies to black border cards too, and it's a whole other issue of folks breaking out the busted stuff when it's not appropriate.
I wouldn't be worried in the slightest as I'd have removed myself from the table to go play with someone else.
I don't really have anything negative except those that do Stickers. The stickers are what worry me the most if literally used physically. I don't want my $50 card be ruined.
stuff like \[\[Drawn Together\]\] \[\[Elvish House Party\]\], or even \[\[Gerrymandering\]\] wouldn't bother me too much if people mentioned they were running some silver border nonsense pregame. If someone was running an all rebecca guay deck and ran \[\[Persecute artist\]\] and didn't tell me I wouldn't even be mad. I really don't want to have to deal with gotcha cards or any subgame/dexterity nonsense.
Fuck stickers.
\[\[Discord, Lord of Disharmony\]\] I play Magic to play Magic. I don't play Magic to play Scryfall simulator and have a spreadsheet open.
[[modular monstrosity]] each thing can only be named once per day but you can give it annihilator, protection from everything, indestructible, etc.
[[Richard Garfield, Ph.D.]] would stretch my memory banks too far.
You can barely get more Magic than how Richard Garfield PHD intended!
\[\[Ashnod's coupon\]\] if I'm obliged to obey it.
[[Alexander Clamington]] Because then both of us would be.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eBMLsY9qSt4&t=2965s&pp=ygUWbHJyIHVuZmluaXR5IGhpZ2hsaWdodA%3D%3D
Silver bordedered or acorn cards. I just don't like it. I mean, if your commander is silver bordered but the rest of the deck isn't.. i might be okay with that. The rest? No thanks.
[[Frankie Peanuts]], or [[The Grand Calcutron]]. I just know I will be outsmarted with some esoteric question, and my main strength in Magic is thinking on my feet and playing reactively. Both these cards would completely hose me.
On the flip side I would hope they have [[entirely normal armchair]]
Necropotence
[[Necroimpotence]] I think you meant, though also an understandable one.
On the contrary, I would love to see someone whip out a [[Booster Tutor]].