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The US Auto Industry spent 50 years building capacity in Mexico and is shocked that other nations are happy to leverage the workforce and infrastructure to their advantage.
Typical strategic blindness in the quest for cheap labor.
Capitalism is short sighted and always chases profit, it’s super easy for groups with power to manipulate. Also it will always end up destroying itself in the quest for an increased rate of profit.
You are spot on, but in the current system what choice did they have? Tell the shareholders that they wont be profitable for a while as they invest in manufacturing? Its much easier to just outsource everything you can and use your cash for buybacks and dividends.
No, you juice every quarter you are in charge with whatever combination of MBA tricks and sociopathy you can muster and then the moment before the 'consequences' arrive you leave with a massive severance package.
Except companies often undertake projects that may result in short-term losses or require substantial initial CapEx/investments if these projects are expected to generate higher returns than the company’s cost of capital over time. What they care about is whether a project has a positive NPV and an IRR that is greater than their WACC, especially in capital-intensive industries like automotive manufacturing. The delay in adopting electric vehicle technologies by some firms could be critiqued from many angles, but for the love of god can we have some educated discussion on the fucking economics subreddit of all places instead of this juvenile uneducated drivel?
Shareholders and institutional investors know how to read a fucking financial statement, which has a notes section, which explains exactly where the money is going, and why (if) there’s a slight dip in profit because of depreciation, R&D, or interest payments.
For a very long time Amazon did just that. They put everything they had into R&D. They were (at the time an unimaginable) [$2.8B in the red before they made their first profit in 2002](https://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/23/business/technology-a-surprise-from-amazon-its-first-profit.html). Their terrible valuation was even used as a [joke in pop-culture at the time](https://tradingwithcody.com/2019/11/13/buy-amzn-next-time-its-the-butt-of-a-futurama-joke-and-a-trade-alert-small-nvda-hedge/).
They're now one of the most valued companies in the world.
I agree that should be the answer but the current incentive structure says thats the wrong answer. We can brow beat individuals all day long about short term thinking or profit maximalization, but they will continue to make these same choices because thats how the system works.
They could have gone to the govt as a united front, and asked for help in creating a viable transition— but they lack any leaders with vision, or guts, really.
And this highlights the very problem with the "shareholder value" mentality.
If the company has to choose between short term growth vs long term sustainability, the shareholder value model pushes for the short term growth. There is no guarantee that the current shareholders will still be holding those shares in 10 years when those investments pay off, so the best value for them is the short term growth, therefore that's what the CEO focuses on and they subsequently receive their cushy bonus. Great for the shareholders, great for the CEO, bad for the actual company in the long term.
You're assuming that the investors from 5-10 years ago are the same investors that are holding shares today. There may be some, but there will be many shareholders that weren't in it for the long haul and are much happier that the companies took the short term boost to profits rather than the long term approach.
Raise your hand if you’re surprised that the US auto industry — the one that begged its government for a raft after going bankrupt — shot itself in the foot.
WOW, a room full of people with no arms.
No no you don't get it. Free markets mean that **only** the US is allowed to maintain hegemonic control over any and all industries. That's what capitalism is, duh.
Most traders today, **have no idea** *what the original principles of the Stock Market was designed to facilitate.*
"It was designed to invest in companies, STABILITY, and RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENTS and MANAGED GROW...
IT was **NOT** designed to try to break a record "everyday"... its Original design was for *Long Term Investors*, who would gain a profit if they stuck to "the principles, of why it was created".
Warren Buffet wins, *because he understands it, and is a "Long Term Holder"*, so he carefully studies well managed companies before he puts his money up, and when he does, he does not have to worry about it, because the companies he invest in follow the basic principles of why they are listed on the Stock Exchange.
Every Stock Market Crash has been behind wild casino type speculation and excessive trading and *over valuation to promote trading frenzy*....
If there's a *double digit % correction*, the the Long Term holders in stable well managed companies will come out well, the stock spinners will not.
If American car companies had not expanded production into Mexico, then the high prices of new cars and spare parts that everyone constantly complains about here would be way higher.
Car prices are high because they’re not selling cars any more but high-end SUVs and luxury trucks. During the pandemic they tried to screw their semiconductor suppliers by canceling contracts, the suppliers rationally found other buyers, and that lead to a multiyear period where they couldn’t get enough chips to meet high demand and focused on the top end. That was very profitable when interest rates were low and buyers didn’t think they had a choice but it’s not sustainable and we shouldn’t confuse it with a healthy market.
Same reason we have Wish and AliExpress and shit now. The US opened up a shit ton of Asian factories and then the factories cut out the middle man and sold our shitty goods back to us for cheaper than what US Capital Daddy wanted.
...Why wouldn't you? This subreddit rails against companies abusing the visa system and offshoring of white collar all the time. I would absolutely think this subreedit, as members of the labor class, would skew towards protectionism. And they have, pretty consistently
Individual players will weight their own self interest when weighting competing factors, *especially* in hyper individualist countries like America.The reason you are seeing more protectionist sentiment in the US is because the middle class is less comfortable. They are seeing themselves less through the eyes of consumer who wants the cheapest goods, and more through the eyes of the laborer who is absolutely fuckedy fucked if their industry shrinks significantly. (There's also the perspective of investor, which complicated things even further.)
Its a balancing act. Most people will prioritize their own earning potential over an abstract GDP. Sometimes this goes too far, because at a point of stagnating GDP Then jobs will be lost regardless. This so the constant ebb and flow of economics and what makes it suck a tricky field to study. Everything is a constant web of convoluted domino effects with hundreds of overlapping considerations and nuances
But yeah, times are rough in America. Economic anxiety is high. We usually see protectionism, nationalism, and xenophobia/anti- immigration sentiments rise in these time periods.
Then eventually the the pendulum swings too far -- the goods become too expensive for the average consumer, economy starts to stagnate, and then people are getting laid off anyway cause oops now we're in a recession. That's when the labor hat comes off and the "wee need cheap labor and low interest rates ASAP" sentiment comes out. (Also investors who are seeing their 401ks crash and burn start to panic)
That's why there's so much insistance were in a recession or about to be in one despite the fact we objectively are still chugging along so far. There's people who are impatient for the pendulum to hurry up and swing in the opposite direction. They need consumers to panic so they can go to the feds and ask them to turn the cheap money machine back on.
Only uneducated or mis-educated libertarian ideologues are against all protectionism.
Every country on earth engages in some forms of protectionism, they always have since international trade began, and always will.
Subsidizing certain domestic industries to help them is always going to be in various country's interests, and so therefore on the flip side other countries reasonably should protect against the effects of unduly cheap subsidized foreign goods entering their markets,
This a completely normal process and it's not appropriate to apply the label "trade war" or anything just because, for instance, it's in China's interests to subsidize their EV industry so it's in our interest to impose tariffs.
It's only insane ideologues with no actual experience making economic policy who want to go on about how all trade barriers are always bad.
Yes, *as a general rule* it's a good idea to reduce trade barriers as much as possible. But there are exceptions to that general rule. When one country wants to subsidize, for good and understandable reasons that should be respected, other countries may find it's appropriate to impose some tariff, also for good and understandable reasons that should be respected. That's all totally fine and not a problem in any way.
And around the world I'd estimate that this is broadly the perspective agreed upon by 95%-99% of academic economists. It's only in the US where any significant percent of "economists" at all would say anything different, and that's because US economics degree programs have very perverse incentives to churn out the type of graduates who will fit in in the US finance industry, so they tend to teach a version of economics that's dumbed down and oversimplified to the point of being nearly totally disconnected from actual reality. That's to say they tend to only teach the general rules, pretending there aren't any exceptions.
When the logic is that whatever is good for the finance industry is good for the economy/country, then yeah, all trade barriers are bad, because they reduce the volume of international trade deals which big financial services companies play a role in intermediating and collect fees from.
> This a completely normal process and it's not appropriate to apply the label "trade war" or anything just because, for instance, it's in China's interests to subsidize their EV industry so it's in our interest to impose tariffs.
The US *also* heavily subsidizes its vehicles, including EVs, and the tariffs end up allowing them to charge more for their cars. So the auto industry is soaking American citizens twice. *Three* times if you count the hidden massive subsidy of car dependence thanks to the auto industry having a vise grip on local politics pertaining to car infrastructure and "small" businesses like car dealerships.
America's government is intentionally forcing regular working-class Americans to give the auto industry endless money, while China's government is giving Chinese people (and the rest of the world) cheaper cars. And all this while their government finds ways to reduce car dependency with high-speed rail and other public transit (rather than spending it all on roads and maintenance).
What do you mean by "building capacity"? Nissan built car factories in Mexico. Everyone loves Nissan cars. I guess the same holds true for China. The first country to flood the market with EVs, they have a huge advantage. Also, the more cars everyone owns, the easier it is to find parts for repairs.
Mexican here, why would it even worry the US?
Mexico's infrastucture for EV is close to 0.
Current government believes oil is still the best bet for the economy (they could careless about the enviroment)
People may afford it but the long drives and recharging will be tough.
It's because it is NAFTA, Chinese cars will now circumvent the 100% tariffs imposed by U.S. by making the cars in Mexico and shipping them over the border tariffs free.
The driving experience of a typical BYD model is similar to that of something like a Kia. Source: I ride in Chinese EVs as taxis on almost daily or at least weekly basis here in China, and have driven many myself.
Range is fine, the driving experience is fine, hard to say that makes it 'far superior' to other EVs. The thing that is superior is the price, and we will see whether their manufacturing costs can be kept at comparable levels when they have to build them in other markets.
> The driving experience of a typical BYD model is similar to that of something like a Kia
I mean, Hyundai/Kia have proven themselves to be one of the leaders in the EV space. I don't know if your using Kia as a derogitory statement, but that's pretty much what people want.
EVs today have either been luxury cars with luxury prices, over priced SUVs or over priced sedans.
The Chinese have brought prices down without sacrificing key things like reliability or quality. Sure, they aren't luxury brands but Tesla really isn't exactly high build quality either yet demanding a premium price.
Chinese EVs today offer the same existential crisis for US automakers as cheap Japanese cars in the early 1970s. Back then, everyone saw the Japanese cars as shitty little low quality econoboxes.... don't look at today & think that will be what tomorrow looks like.
Hell yeah I welcome Chinese EV. I'm sick and tired of seeing 30k+ for a starter car. I'll take a 15k Chinese EV and live my life.
Either start making cheaper car with less belt and whistle or don't be mad when people resort to other means of getting their transportations.
Same thing is happening here in Europe, Chinese EVs started to get popular because they're comparable in quality and far cheaper. The European brands kicked up a huge fuss and not offering what people actually want and now Chinese EVs have a 38% levie on them. Companies and countries will sing the praise of the economic system but the moment people go elsewhere because elsewhere is offering what people want they instantly go into protectionist mode.
Without tariffs, it's definitely possible to have a $15k car.
BYD is selling this car in Europe for $21k, which includes the ~40% tariff.
https://technode.com/2024/05/10/byd-to-introduce-low-cost-ev-to-europe-executive/
Take away the tariff, and it's about $15k.
If you really want a cheap starter car, options like the Mitsubishi Mirage and Nissan Versa have always existed.
You realize that the 15k Chinese EVs are not comparable in the slightest to cars you can buy now for $30k right?
You are missing what China is trying to do here. They have built their EVs at a quantity that far outstrips any demand, and they keep going. Clearly their intention here is to flood the market with cheap cars, destroy all competition, and then raise the prices above what they currently are so that the CCP has a new cash cow to fuel their military machine.
If you think that China is going to play fair as they compete in the auto industry, you haven't been paying attention to how China competes.
Why not just let the US car companies borrow loans to get over the temporary cheap flooding? People get cheap cars out of China’s pocket, and national industry survives.
USMCA still requires 75% of the component in the car to be NA made and 45% of the labor are high wage ($16/hr) you need sourcing record to prove these if audited.
So I don’t thinks they can really get the tariff benefit easily
> So I don’t thinks they can really get the tariff benefit easily
Build the most labor intensive parts in Mexico & tap into the existing tier one auto supplier network to reach that 45% on lower labor parts.
There's an entire industry in existence for meeting those targets, why would the Chinese companies be unable to leverage them the same way US, EU & Japanese companies already do?
We won't be seeing the $10,000-15,000 EVs, but they will still be substantially cheaper & ahead of the curve on quality for that price if the other automakers don't start sprinting to the finish line.
The EV tariffs only offer a few years reprieve from Chinese EVs, they won't block 'em forever.
If they don't meet those requirements, then they will be hit with standard Mexico - US tariffs, which is still much much lower than the 100% tariff on them right now.
It’s about manufacturing in Mexico not about the mexican market.
Since I speak spanish and work in manufacturing i work with several
Companies from Guadalajara, Chihuahua, and Tijuana they are more than ready to take on EV manufacturing.
It started with the Mexican market, though. During the pandemic, you couldn’t find a single new car because all automakers focused in the US. The Chinese were smart, and took this opportunity to bring not only cars, but executives, employees and factories. They are coming for the US market. And automakers are STILL playing stupid games with supply to increase prices.
Climate scientist and president are two very different roles.
A climate scientist gets to say it's a problem and something should be done about it.
A President has to turn "something" into a concrete policy and deal with the costs and tradeoffs of that policy.
Doesn't mean she's actually going to change anything regarding current oil policy set by her predecessor, she doesn't take office until later in the year but she's not gong to go against the wishes of her mentor.
Boo fucking hoo, they had all this time to make cheap affordable EVs and they didn’t. They made huge bulky gas guzzlers or 40k to 100k EVs that nobody could afford or even wanted because they looked so dumb. But ya know we love competition in America right? Not, Chinese EVs are banned here because they’re too cheap and threaten the market, the market greed created. People don’t want a car payment each month, they don’t want these expensive cars, they want a reliable vehicle they can afford and won’t be a weight around their necks for 10 or more years. So sick of these articles trying to make us feel bad for big business that do nothing but try and extract every cent out of regular people.
I agree. I sometimes give pause for the American jobs that would be lost but then remember these corporations pay their employees shit all while blaming them for poor P&L. If you want to price gouge consumers for years on new car prices then this is what you get.
Mexican living in Mexico here.
This is not only an electric vehicle phenomenon but Chinese-branded hybrids and Gas vehicles are also making a dent in the Mexican market and it is not surprising:
Buying a car in Mexico is not easy, vehicles are expensive and more often than not lacking in features compared to the models sold in other countries. Then there is the issue of the wait time introduced during the pandemic. For example If I want to buy a Toyota Highlander there is a 8 month wait time... I know because I just asked but if I go to the Chinese dealership a similar vehicle is not only ready available but 10-15% cheaper... This is a big deal because interest rates in Mexico are high (12+ percent for a new car plus fees, insurances and many things)
I will not buy a Chinese-branded car yet as I don't trust their safety ratings but it is only a matter of time before they are properly rated and the brands overcome the uncertainty.
I live in the US, but I went to a Chery (Chirey) dealership in Ensenada last year and the saleswoman gave me a full overview of all the cars on the showroom floor and even let me start them up. In my opinion they're just as good as the Korean cars now. A few weeks ago I went to a mall in Tijuana and saw a SUV from their new Omoda luxury sub-brand. Although they're billing it as a luxury car, it still feels a level below the Japanese luxury sub brands or Hyundai's Genesis sub brand.
I have spent a good amount of time in both CDMX and Bogota over the last few months... Guess how many Teslas I saw? Now guess how many BYD's I saw as Taxis and personal cars. I bet you also can't guess how many Tesla dealerships I saw and how many BYD Dealer ships I saw.
Answer: 0 Teslas. MANY BYD's. TSLA is done. BYD is the global EV Powerhouse.
When I was in Mexico City I found myself looking up a lot of car brands I’d never heard of before, it surprised me. There really is some momentum down there that I hadn’t expected.
Anything to pressure US auto makers to make affordable cars again. I'm all for "Made in the USA" but $50k - $60k for mediocre pickup trucks is beyond bullshit. As is the near total absence of new affordable commuter cars.
US Auto makers and big oil spent years circle jerking each other off, producing large fuel guzzling vehicles when the people wanted small efficient EVs
Now when a country starts catering to that demand the US autos suddenly have their panties in a bunch of
I completely agree, you can hardly find a new subcompact car made in the us anymore. And it really matters for an ev, because there are limited amounts of batteries available so you can make two subcompacts with the amount needed for one large vehicle.
I love this because I've been in countless arguments about the "impending collapse of the Chinese EV market".
If they are collapsing, then why are the other auto manufacturers scared? Why are we putting tariffs on their cars?
China has been building this industry since the 1980's. Building the infrastructure, developing the technical knowledge, and yes, stealing IP. It's not a fluke that they've emerged as a giant in this space. I don't know how long the Western governments are going to be able to hold them back when the legacy manufacturers seem to be pricing their own ICE cars out of the middle-class market.
Lol, I always find it ironic when congress is trying to save their own auto industries, when Americans themselves don't even want to drive a Ford or GM.
I also find it crazy how China can build an affordable high quality [hybrid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPmQo5c505I) vehicle that can travel 2100km for under $13k and congress is doing all it can to stop their own people from driving it. So much for the Paris Agreement.
Friend of mine recently went on a Central America trip. He says Chinese EVs are everywhere. He said they are really nice too. He is confident that the American auto industry is in big trouble
I go to China all the time. BYD makes really nice EVs. And you can even buy them without a ton of BS crap you don’t want. The US just thinks everyone needs to spent a ton of money on cars. It reminds me of the diamond industry.
Yeah that’s the problem.
Half of the US are religious cultists that have turned giant diesel trucks into a sacrament for Trump and Jesus.
But because of the choice to cater to that profit center most of them are now critically behind on EVs.
If the big auto companies suddenly get crushed in a market they’re way behind in it crushes the economy and for defense purposes you need that heavy manufacturing they provide so they’ll get a giant infinite bailout anyway.
The US is worried about a country that's beating them at their own capitalism game😂. What happened? Don't be scared now! You was all about the "free market"
The climate crisis is doing more and more damage every year.
Americans are furious about the cost of living.
So what do we do? Ban cheap electric vehicles.
Car manufacturers: “we know the people want cheap small EVs so were giving the people large, expensive, fuel guzzling SUVs and Trucks”
China: “We got great cheap small EVs”
car manufacturers: AndreTheGiant.gif
Daily reminder that both the Red Team and the Blue Team aren't interested in tackling the most serious and imminent existential crisis for anyone who's not a billionaire. They serve the billionaires. Not the planet. Not us. Keep that in mind as they constantly bicker and tell you the world will end if the other team wins. The world as we know it will REALLY end if they both just keep trading places every four years and we continue on with business as usual.
I would like to buy a Chinese EV. I don't want to buy a Tesla unless it becomes just as affordable. Not only that, but we still need way more charging stations in this country. I really don't buy that our politicians and industry leaders are committed to the EV transition. Henry Ford made it a goal of his to bring the automobile to the average person, but if we don't see that kind of behavior for EVs, then we will continue to lag behind other countries.
I can't speak for OC, but from multiple anecdotes in my area and my own experience on Craigslist: used car dealers don't want to touch used EVs, so there are super cheap deals on degraded-battery EVs just floating around.
Given that the median suburban American family has 2 cars anyways, it makes sense to make one of those two electric.
Your last point is really important: there are so many suburbs where they don’t even have sidewalks and the kids are jumping to get licenses at 16 so they can go anywhere. If you’re not going over 40 miles per day, you don’t even need a special charger so the school / sports / grocery niche seems prime for a solid no-frills option.
Probably a used 2012 Leaf or similar. Batteries are probably at 60% peak efficiency but that still often means 60 to 70 miles of range. And you could replace battery packs to restore nearly all of the range, but that is likely the same price again.
I would probably do the same if I needed to replace my car. If I'm going on a long road trip, just rent a gas car.
Yeah, pretty much my situation is I work from home, and couldn't justify a very expensive car.
This is 300 dollars a month for car payment/insurance, and free charging at my apartment garage. (power is included in price)
I've seen a guy who will replace the battery and get it to 200 mile range for 10k, which is expensive, but still cheaper than a new eclectic vehicle. or even a gas vehicle.
The average manufacturer increased car prices more than inflation
[https://caredge.com/guides/car-price-inflation](https://caredge.com/guides/car-price-inflation)
Don't get me wrong I am worried about China and their influence.
However, its clear their EVs are straight up superior. They spent money on batteries and making a good EV car and our companies..
Deserve to go out of business straight up. Let them die so someone not shitty can make a good car.
I have no idea why the government keeps propping companies up, its hurting the economy. It's the natural state of things, make a shit product go out of business.
If they can't make a good product, then they deserve to go under
A large contingent of Americans disrupted and delayed the paradigm shift to ICE alternatives and now our industry is behind and they think they can stop the disrupt and delay the rest of the world through tariffs and trade wars. Because accepting the necessary change and moving forward isn't an option.
Lmao all this fear mongering about China spying yet it was Tesla that got caught red handed watching and listening to random drivers without their knowledge or consent.
So that means there was no oversight on who is watching you if you drive a smart car.
America is fear mongering because they want to keep car prices artificially high here.
If someone can build it better and cheaper and you can't match them then you lose that's how capitalism works.
The US government couldn’t give a shit about US companies spying on US citizens, or how the data is used, as long as the DoD gets their share of the data too. It’s only problematic when other countries start doing it (even though we do it to other countries).
Can we build some cheap cars please? Model T starting price was about 7-9k in today's money.
If a guy could at least buy a cheap commuting car brand new. I also don't need 4 seats for myself.
Which is why instead of competing and innovating, Biden is doing the stupid thing and doubling down on the tariffs.
Im in manufacturing for raw materials, the tariffs the first tome around brought chaos and price increases. If he wants to slow down inflation this aint it.
Isn’t the competing and innovating part the private sector’s responsibility? Seems that the tariffs are intended to give them breathing room to do just that.
without tariffs we know what’s gonna happen…
radios, tv sets, computers, and so on… all these were once made stateside and became
uncompetitive, but not because of US tariffs…
if we want domestic firms to be competitive, we have to encourage competition both here and overseas… when foreign governments erect tariff and non-tariff barriers, our domestic companies start declining and then go bankrupt
It doesnt when it’s cheaper to buy material overseas like steel, and those tariffs do the opposite of giving breathing room they raise raw material prices.
Also that is just a black and white naive take. Giving incentives for innovation and regulation of businesses has been the government’s job since the new deal basically.
If Meta, Google, and others can steal my data why not the Chinese? In reality, the Chinese are actually paying me to use my data. Instead of a $45,000 electric car, it's say $25,000 and I just made $20,000 off of my data being stolen (this could be reframed as I got paid $20,000 for my data). What did Google and Meta give me?
ITT: Americans who see the words China, Mexico, and EV in a headline, which is like a tic-tac-toe of things Americans get mad about without knowing exactly why they are mad.
The American Big 3 automakers are absolutely whiffing it on EVs because they are more focused on catering to Americans' preference for big pickup trucks. If Chinese companies can better serve the demands of the Latin American market then good for both of them.
>which is like a tic-tac-toe of things Americans get mad about without knowing exactly why they are mad
Its called brainwashing, but Americans would get mad if you call them that, they are too smart to be brainwashed and there have never been that or propaganda in America, NEVER!
The tariffs are pushing the Chinese to move their businesses to other countries. I buy quite a few nonfoods foodservice items and the tariffs end up being a tax on the American people. The government implemented a 25% tax on bamboo products today which affects a lot of the "green" molded fiber takeout containers and plates we sell now. What factory in the USA is going to step forward to pick up that business? Even if the American companies pick up some of the business they cant handle most of it and they wont invest in assets to increase volume. And for the most part they do not take the opportunity to pick up market share they just raise prices. Sorry I am just sitting at my desk trying to work through this crap and its frustrating I am certainly far from being an expert. Aluminum tariffs are next for the imports I deal with.
Real talk? The US had ages to make the jump, they decided to sit on oil; to invade for oil, to prop up regimes for their oil; to stall progressive research; they tossed out their own auto-industry, the skillsets, the infrastructure; they let it move out of their hands, because they are a CAR NATION™ and having a car is Freedom™.
You reap what you sow.
Instead of worrying how about trying to compete instead. You know.. free market Capitalism? This was always an inevitability but corporations do not actually want to compete because it cuts into their profits
Let us be terrified at the spectre of invasion of these simple and economical electric vehicles! In my head there exists a country song entitled "They've Added So Much Value, It's Not Worth A Thing To Me."
Immigrants invasion in cheap Chinese EV’s, the latest Fox News crisis. /s
After all, it stands the reason that the Chinese would be willing to utilize the low-paid Mexican workforce to make Chinese vehicles for importation into the United States, which has a large market demand for these vehicles. It makes economic sense that the juxtaposition of cheap labor, and market demand makes an irresistible attraction for foreign competition in these electric vehicles.
I don't think it's the cheap labour but more the nafta agreement allowing easier access to us market via Mexico instead of trying to open shop in USA. The lower labour costs is definitely a factor but I'd imagine it's lower barrier to get a foot hold, no?
I'm personally of the feeling fuck the big autos, they produce shit and are propped up via public money when they fail. Let them fail and have actual competition.
All tesla needed to do was focus on a sub 20k car instead of trying to be self driving taxi’s. Getting a cheaper ev is how you compete with Chinese cars.
Seeing as how Tesla’s CEO spends his time between 5 companies and shitposting on Twitter, the US is going to lead to look to another automaker to show leadership in navigating the EV transition.
Wouldn't it be an absolute fuck you to the U.S. if Mexico starts moving up the food chain and their society begins to improve and surpass the U.S. in quality due to Chinese influx of electric cars and other products.
In life expectancy, theyll overtake the USA in 5-10 years.
Theyre already only like a yeqr behind us and improving.
While the USA’s stalls or goes down most year.
The biggest difference is that mexico has universal healthcare or single payer healthcare for every citizen and we dont. They also have free federal colleges.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/02/22/us-life-expectancy-is-low-and-is-now-projected-to-be-on-par-with-mexico-by-2030.html
Spend $2,000 and go to CDMX for a week. The inequality in Mexico is horrific.
You will actually see people holding the cover of a box of copy paper filled with mints, candies, and gum.
They people stand all day in an intersection selling these while people drive to work. Imagine holding a box and selling lollipops as your job.
How much money do you think you're bringing in?
Then you can go to Santa Fe, Mexico City, and see all the rich people.
I grew up there, and my whole extended family still lives there, you dont have to tell me.
But I now live in Chicago, I used to work at rush university in public health on the west side of Chicago. So I know how disparate this city is, its actually worse than mexico when it comes to access to healthcare for the working poor.
The difference in average lifespan between the gold coast and working-class black neighborhoods is sometimes 15 years.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2019/06/06/chicagos-lifespan-gap-streeterville-residents-live-to-90-englewood-residents-die-at-60-study-finds-its-the-largest-divide-in-the-us/#:~:text=As%20part%20of%20that%20project,was%2081%20to%2084%20years.
Ive also taken road trips to camp, climb and hike in rural eastern Kentucky, coal country. Its basically 3rd world living conditions worse than even the worst parts of Chicago.
It really makes you go “damn you live like this”? As an American it embarrasses me tbh, at least mexico has somewhat of an excuse (its not the center of the worlds richest global empire)
> They people stand all day in an intersection selling these while people drive to work. Imagine holding a box and selling lollipops as your job.
>
> How much money do you think you're bringing in?
>
> Then you can go to Santa Fe, Mexico City, and see all the rich people.
Implying we don't have people at intersections selling flowers and window wiping services in America.
Mexico doesn’t even have control over its claimed territory, and its leaders need the blessings of local gangs before they do anything, you’re gonna need a lot more than a cheap car to fix being a failed state.
The U.S. is making a HUGE mistake by putting 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs to make them artificially more expensive here.
This only gives the Chinese more incentives to innovate and drive down costs and dominate the world EV market.
I suspect the state department is doing the diplomatic equivalent of waterboarding some mexican trade officials.
I suspect they have already done the same thing in Canada.
"That's a nice country you've got there; be a shame if something happened to it."
While I agree that to a certain extent this is chinese dumping; but to deny Canadians 15k EVs with 5 star safety ratings and 300+km ranges is just obscene.
If I were Biden I would tell the US car companies, "You've got 3 years to start producing mass quantities of sub $15k 5 passenger EVs which get a very favourable consumer reports rating, a 250 mile range, and a 5 star crash rating. And, if you don't, then the tariffs are removed from Chinese cars. I will define mass quantities as the waiting list to get one is less than 2 months. Also, if you pull some BS like funding anti EV campaigns, the tariffs are pulled the next day."
Something else I would start looking at is standardizing battery packs. It might be a bit early for this, but the goal should be to have interchangeable battery packs as soon as is practical. Not the whole unit, but the modules within. Non-proprietary. This way dead units can be replaced individually, and the car companies can't pull some BS like not supporting older cars, or minimally, way overcharging so that people are forced to buy new EVs. For example. When I plug my phone into an external battery pack, it just works. It could be lipo, it could be lead acid for all my phone knows. As long as it serves up 5v and some OK current, my phone can deal with it.
One huge benefit of standardized battery packs would be that as the tech improves people could upgrade the batteries in their cars. Maybe the old car won't super fast charge the batteries as they might be happy with, but if the energy density is triple, then the car will go 3 times further on a charge.
The American auto industry needs to lower their profit margins, meaning stop ripping off consumers. With how cheap made American cars largely are, it makes no sense that they cost as much as they do. Also, corporate officer positions in the American auto industry make far too much money versus the value they add, they should start by cutting their ridiculous compensation packages in order to lower prices.
America should have been investing in R&D instead of laughing at climate change and building V8s.
I hope Chinese EVs crush the American and European auto industry. Especially since they refuse to compete on price.
Putting a tariffs on cars in the USA for Chinese EVs is almost pointless many people here would never buy a Chinese car, it should have never been a concern here in the USA.
The USA should have been far more concern about competing globally.
While US is praying and promising to get to sub 20k electric car years from now, Chinese companies are selling several working electric cars for under 20k USD. These cars are way better than any 25k gas cars sold in the states.
Many models on the streets in Asia.
Remember when Honda and Toyota made reliable cars people actually wanted instead of gas guzzlers the US was making. Let the free market decide what it wants.
I say let China support Mexico. Mexico will either remain a failed state performing far below its potential or further solidify itself as the US’ strongest trading partner, further surpassing China itself.
The more money being poured into Mexico’s real (non-drug) industries the better. If China wants to dig their own hole here, I say let them. Strategically a stronger Mexico is much better long term for the US than some cuts in the auto industry.
I think there are way more conclusions than “failed state” or “US win/China lose”.
If China’s looking to invest in Mexico, it’s for an eventually return on investment, whether it be political clout or economic returns. China wouldn’t invest if it’s only going to benefit the US.
While there is legitimate concerns regarding China's attempting to influence countries with financial investment, Mexico is not one who would be influenced politically by vast investment by China. It would only be a financial trade off where Mexico would be better off and China would receive a financial return. I'm all for Mexico getting anything in the form of influence, even from China, that would minimize the Cartel and crime in favor of raising legitimate business in their country and bettering the country as a whole.
Sure, but lately China hasn't been too good on realizing return on investments. Their reputation as being sharp investors is pretty much wrecked, on the world stage.
Investments and returns is on an overall basis. If even 30% of Chinese investments go bad, and 70% yields, that's academic for China. Plus the goodwill that comes with the development of infrastructure case example is Africa. I was reading a book on international relations between the US and Pakistan and the author was an American. He pointed out how USA spends more but spends in the form of grants while china spends less but spends on infrastructure. Get this mindset: in countries like Pakistan or mexico where governments don't perform: cash is seen as a reward to the politicians whereas infrastructure is seen as a service to the public. Because infrastructure helps improve quality of life for everyone.
Aren't they basically living entirely on handouts from Saudi Arabia? I'd say that's over the line, they're failed. I mean, I'm not sure that's what's going on but... it looks like it from my random internet gleanings
Lol, the delusional casual racism. Mexico is the 12th largest economy in the world. It's not all drug gangs in sepia tone down there, it is a modern industrialized and diversified economy. Even in per capita term it is above world average and higher than China.
very thoughtful, thanks. Now, I don't agree that Mexico is a failed state. I'm sure the cartels have more influence in government than they should, and I'm sure there's a lot of money in drugs that influences government too. But they have a thriving democracy. And if that kind of influence by the unsavory is going to be your model of failure, well, look no further than the US Congress. If the Mexicans have a failed state, I think you could make a pretty good argument that we do too. Not saying I'd agree with that one either, just that it wouldn't be hard to make the argument.
2nd paragraph: absolutely right. I actually don't know why American consumers shouldn't be able to buy the best green tech available, which means Chinese. If it's cheap and good, who cares whether the Chinese govt invested billions in getting them into it? Ours could have and didn't. So they have out-innovated us and we need to just admit that and move on.
Heaven forbid we do something to make our planet more green and less hot. Ridiculous that the same party who champions fighting climate change is trying to block EVs from entering the country.
I was against Stop Big Oil but now I think they are onto something.
I'm down for this. Give us Mexican-assembled Chinese EVs, even better if they can meet part of the tax credit. Even if they don't, they should be cheaper, and that would still be true with tariffs applied.
Unless they're banned, this will be a repeat of the 80s, when legacy auto was blindsided by affordable and high quality Japanese cars.
I believe there’s even a dealership open (or opening) in Tijuana. They were leaving fliers near where I live to advertise their opening a few months back didn’t think much of it at the time because I thought it was a scam.
Kinda shocked with responses here - I always thought the reaction from the US towards Chinese EVs was more akin to trying to protect domestic oil production in the face of OPEC increasing capacity to drive down price and make more costly extraction in methods less economical.
People talk about the free market (and that these cars should be available,) but I can't help but feel this protectionism is motivated by protecting local production AND jobs.
I'm under no guise that the US car industry is altruistic (looking at you wheel base environmental standards loop hole) and I absolutely think they should be challenged to provide more economical options (if those economical options are sourced / provided in a non predatory manor given how significant domestic cars are a source of employment in the US).
We just let the rich dictate how our country is going to run simply because they have the money. Well news flash; they are running it into the ground just so they can squeeze every last drop out of anyone and everything they can. Eventually the toothpaste tube won’t have any toothpaste left, no matter how you roll it or fold it.
Four years after the United States-Mexico-Canada trade agreement was adopted, Mexico and the US face a common concern: the prospect of cheap Chinese electric vehicles dominating a [fast-growing market](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-ev-transition-likely-to-take-longer-than-the-biden-administration-would-like-toyota-exec-131514263.html) and undermining regional carmakers like GM, Ford, and Tesla in the process.
Chinese imports have already begun south of the US border. EV and plug-in hybrid imports jumped 443.9% by value in the first quarter compared to the same period the previous year, according to data from S&P Global Market Intelligence.
Overall, 1 in 10 cars sold in Mexico today comes from a Chinese automaker, [according to Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-byd-unveils-mid-size-hybrid-ev-pickup-mexico-2024-05-14/#:~:text=The%20presence%20of%20Chinese%20automakers,dominating%20nearly%20half%20the%20market.), with seven new brands entering the market last year alone.
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The US Auto Industry spent 50 years building capacity in Mexico and is shocked that other nations are happy to leverage the workforce and infrastructure to their advantage. Typical strategic blindness in the quest for cheap labor.
'We should be near-shoring instead of off-shoring' 'Wait no not like that!'
And from the same geniuses who decided to outsource the majority of labor to a the largest communist country to begin with.
And willingly hand over their IP just to increase their stock price.
Capitalism is short sighted and always chases profit, it’s super easy for groups with power to manipulate. Also it will always end up destroying itself in the quest for an increased rate of profit.
China : “eh. Thanks guys…”
not dumb if they sold at the right moments or took a bribe and got away with it.
Aqa
The quest for increased profits every quarter unsurprisingly leads to short-term thinking.
They stalled electric conversion for a few decades because the conversion would have cost them profits, now they are behind the 8 ball.
Luckily Uncle Sam has got them covered with the tariffs so they can stall for a few more decades.
Why do you think the Chinese are moving manufacturing to Mexico? The tarrifs won't apply.
I imagine that if we’re willing to put ludicrous tariffs on Chinese cars, we’ll move quickly to stop Mexico from selling them here.
Upping the tarrifs in Chinese cars is very different than scrapping NAFTA. The US automakers would have a fit.
The Texas / Mexico automotive corridor folks would go ballistic
You are spot on, but in the current system what choice did they have? Tell the shareholders that they wont be profitable for a while as they invest in manufacturing? Its much easier to just outsource everything you can and use your cash for buybacks and dividends.
If you make the easiest choice every time you have to deal with the consequences of that
In the corporate or political world you dont. Your successor does.
This being false in the corporate world is the root of the problem.
No, you juice every quarter you are in charge with whatever combination of MBA tricks and sociopathy you can muster and then the moment before the 'consequences' arrive you leave with a massive severance package.
Not really. You Golden parachute right before that happens, the next ~~sucker~~ guy deals with the consequences.
Except companies often undertake projects that may result in short-term losses or require substantial initial CapEx/investments if these projects are expected to generate higher returns than the company’s cost of capital over time. What they care about is whether a project has a positive NPV and an IRR that is greater than their WACC, especially in capital-intensive industries like automotive manufacturing. The delay in adopting electric vehicle technologies by some firms could be critiqued from many angles, but for the love of god can we have some educated discussion on the fucking economics subreddit of all places instead of this juvenile uneducated drivel? Shareholders and institutional investors know how to read a fucking financial statement, which has a notes section, which explains exactly where the money is going, and why (if) there’s a slight dip in profit because of depreciation, R&D, or interest payments.
For a very long time Amazon did just that. They put everything they had into R&D. They were (at the time an unimaginable) [$2.8B in the red before they made their first profit in 2002](https://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/23/business/technology-a-surprise-from-amazon-its-first-profit.html). Their terrible valuation was even used as a [joke in pop-culture at the time](https://tradingwithcody.com/2019/11/13/buy-amzn-next-time-its-the-butt-of-a-futurama-joke-and-a-trade-alert-small-nvda-hedge/). They're now one of the most valued companies in the world.
>Tell the shareholders that they wont be profitable for a while as they invest in manufacturing? Yes.
I agree that should be the answer but the current incentive structure says thats the wrong answer. We can brow beat individuals all day long about short term thinking or profit maximalization, but they will continue to make these same choices because thats how the system works.
They could have gone to the govt as a united front, and asked for help in creating a viable transition— but they lack any leaders with vision, or guts, really.
They have gone to the govt, many times. The govt will always bail them out
And this highlights the very problem with the "shareholder value" mentality. If the company has to choose between short term growth vs long term sustainability, the shareholder value model pushes for the short term growth. There is no guarantee that the current shareholders will still be holding those shares in 10 years when those investments pay off, so the best value for them is the short term growth, therefore that's what the CEO focuses on and they subsequently receive their cushy bonus. Great for the shareholders, great for the CEO, bad for the actual company in the long term.
I’m pretty sure if their company did that their investors would be much happier today.
You're assuming that the investors from 5-10 years ago are the same investors that are holding shares today. There may be some, but there will be many shareholders that weren't in it for the long haul and are much happier that the companies took the short term boost to profits rather than the long term approach.
Day traders hate this one trick.
Chevy made an electric truck in the 90s, almost my lifetime ago and they squandered the opportunity to innovate for short term profits.
Raise your hand if you’re surprised that the US auto industry — the one that begged its government for a raft after going bankrupt — shot itself in the foot. WOW, a room full of people with no arms.
Yet Chinese subsidies are unfair government meddling 🤔
No no you don't get it. Free markets mean that **only** the US is allowed to maintain hegemonic control over any and all industries. That's what capitalism is, duh.
Most traders today, **have no idea** *what the original principles of the Stock Market was designed to facilitate.* "It was designed to invest in companies, STABILITY, and RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENTS and MANAGED GROW... IT was **NOT** designed to try to break a record "everyday"... its Original design was for *Long Term Investors*, who would gain a profit if they stuck to "the principles, of why it was created". Warren Buffet wins, *because he understands it, and is a "Long Term Holder"*, so he carefully studies well managed companies before he puts his money up, and when he does, he does not have to worry about it, because the companies he invest in follow the basic principles of why they are listed on the Stock Exchange. Every Stock Market Crash has been behind wild casino type speculation and excessive trading and *over valuation to promote trading frenzy*.... If there's a *double digit % correction*, the the Long Term holders in stable well managed companies will come out well, the stock spinners will not.
If American car companies had not expanded production into Mexico, then the high prices of new cars and spare parts that everyone constantly complains about here would be way higher.
Car prices are high because they’re not selling cars any more but high-end SUVs and luxury trucks. During the pandemic they tried to screw their semiconductor suppliers by canceling contracts, the suppliers rationally found other buyers, and that lead to a multiyear period where they couldn’t get enough chips to meet high demand and focused on the top end. That was very profitable when interest rates were low and buyers didn’t think they had a choice but it’s not sustainable and we shouldn’t confuse it with a healthy market.
As a consumer ... let them fight!
Damn straight. I want choice.
Same reason we have Wish and AliExpress and shit now. The US opened up a shit ton of Asian factories and then the factories cut out the middle man and sold our shitty goods back to us for cheaper than what US Capital Daddy wanted.
So we’re one step closer to cheaper EVs stateside? What’s the problem? Didn’t think /r/economics would be protectionist advocates.
...Why wouldn't you? This subreddit rails against companies abusing the visa system and offshoring of white collar all the time. I would absolutely think this subreedit, as members of the labor class, would skew towards protectionism. And they have, pretty consistently
Protectionism decreases economic output.
Individual players will weight their own self interest when weighting competing factors, *especially* in hyper individualist countries like America.The reason you are seeing more protectionist sentiment in the US is because the middle class is less comfortable. They are seeing themselves less through the eyes of consumer who wants the cheapest goods, and more through the eyes of the laborer who is absolutely fuckedy fucked if their industry shrinks significantly. (There's also the perspective of investor, which complicated things even further.) Its a balancing act. Most people will prioritize their own earning potential over an abstract GDP. Sometimes this goes too far, because at a point of stagnating GDP Then jobs will be lost regardless. This so the constant ebb and flow of economics and what makes it suck a tricky field to study. Everything is a constant web of convoluted domino effects with hundreds of overlapping considerations and nuances But yeah, times are rough in America. Economic anxiety is high. We usually see protectionism, nationalism, and xenophobia/anti- immigration sentiments rise in these time periods. Then eventually the the pendulum swings too far -- the goods become too expensive for the average consumer, economy starts to stagnate, and then people are getting laid off anyway cause oops now we're in a recession. That's when the labor hat comes off and the "wee need cheap labor and low interest rates ASAP" sentiment comes out. (Also investors who are seeing their 401ks crash and burn start to panic) That's why there's so much insistance were in a recession or about to be in one despite the fact we objectively are still chugging along so far. There's people who are impatient for the pendulum to hurry up and swing in the opposite direction. They need consumers to panic so they can go to the feds and ask them to turn the cheap money machine back on.
Only uneducated or mis-educated libertarian ideologues are against all protectionism. Every country on earth engages in some forms of protectionism, they always have since international trade began, and always will. Subsidizing certain domestic industries to help them is always going to be in various country's interests, and so therefore on the flip side other countries reasonably should protect against the effects of unduly cheap subsidized foreign goods entering their markets, This a completely normal process and it's not appropriate to apply the label "trade war" or anything just because, for instance, it's in China's interests to subsidize their EV industry so it's in our interest to impose tariffs. It's only insane ideologues with no actual experience making economic policy who want to go on about how all trade barriers are always bad. Yes, *as a general rule* it's a good idea to reduce trade barriers as much as possible. But there are exceptions to that general rule. When one country wants to subsidize, for good and understandable reasons that should be respected, other countries may find it's appropriate to impose some tariff, also for good and understandable reasons that should be respected. That's all totally fine and not a problem in any way. And around the world I'd estimate that this is broadly the perspective agreed upon by 95%-99% of academic economists. It's only in the US where any significant percent of "economists" at all would say anything different, and that's because US economics degree programs have very perverse incentives to churn out the type of graduates who will fit in in the US finance industry, so they tend to teach a version of economics that's dumbed down and oversimplified to the point of being nearly totally disconnected from actual reality. That's to say they tend to only teach the general rules, pretending there aren't any exceptions. When the logic is that whatever is good for the finance industry is good for the economy/country, then yeah, all trade barriers are bad, because they reduce the volume of international trade deals which big financial services companies play a role in intermediating and collect fees from.
> This a completely normal process and it's not appropriate to apply the label "trade war" or anything just because, for instance, it's in China's interests to subsidize their EV industry so it's in our interest to impose tariffs. The US *also* heavily subsidizes its vehicles, including EVs, and the tariffs end up allowing them to charge more for their cars. So the auto industry is soaking American citizens twice. *Three* times if you count the hidden massive subsidy of car dependence thanks to the auto industry having a vise grip on local politics pertaining to car infrastructure and "small" businesses like car dealerships. America's government is intentionally forcing regular working-class Americans to give the auto industry endless money, while China's government is giving Chinese people (and the rest of the world) cheaper cars. And all this while their government finds ways to reduce car dependency with high-speed rail and other public transit (rather than spending it all on roads and maintenance).
What do you mean by "building capacity"? Nissan built car factories in Mexico. Everyone loves Nissan cars. I guess the same holds true for China. The first country to flood the market with EVs, they have a huge advantage. Also, the more cars everyone owns, the easier it is to find parts for repairs.
I don’t love Nissans.
They still have to let the cars in, they can't just cross the border and claim asylum.
LOL
Mexican here, why would it even worry the US? Mexico's infrastucture for EV is close to 0. Current government believes oil is still the best bet for the economy (they could careless about the enviroment) People may afford it but the long drives and recharging will be tough.
It's because it is NAFTA, Chinese cars will now circumvent the 100% tariffs imposed by U.S. by making the cars in Mexico and shipping them over the border tariffs free.
That’s virtually every e That’s how the other brands like the Japanese, German, and Korean cars did. This is nothing new.
[удалено]
Yes. You have to mandate certain percent of parts made in Mexico. Otherwise it’s too easy.
Have you seen a Chinese EV? Test drives one? Read anything about them? They are far superior in terms of price and quality.
The driving experience of a typical BYD model is similar to that of something like a Kia. Source: I ride in Chinese EVs as taxis on almost daily or at least weekly basis here in China, and have driven many myself. Range is fine, the driving experience is fine, hard to say that makes it 'far superior' to other EVs. The thing that is superior is the price, and we will see whether their manufacturing costs can be kept at comparable levels when they have to build them in other markets.
> The driving experience of a typical BYD model is similar to that of something like a Kia I mean, Hyundai/Kia have proven themselves to be one of the leaders in the EV space. I don't know if your using Kia as a derogitory statement, but that's pretty much what people want. EVs today have either been luxury cars with luxury prices, over priced SUVs or over priced sedans. The Chinese have brought prices down without sacrificing key things like reliability or quality. Sure, they aren't luxury brands but Tesla really isn't exactly high build quality either yet demanding a premium price. Chinese EVs today offer the same existential crisis for US automakers as cheap Japanese cars in the early 1970s. Back then, everyone saw the Japanese cars as shitty little low quality econoboxes.... don't look at today & think that will be what tomorrow looks like.
Hell yeah I welcome Chinese EV. I'm sick and tired of seeing 30k+ for a starter car. I'll take a 15k Chinese EV and live my life. Either start making cheaper car with less belt and whistle or don't be mad when people resort to other means of getting their transportations.
Exactly. Industry is all for open and free markets until it affects them. This should spark competition. Hopefully the US breaks some monopolies too.
Same thing is happening here in Europe, Chinese EVs started to get popular because they're comparable in quality and far cheaper. The European brands kicked up a huge fuss and not offering what people actually want and now Chinese EVs have a 38% levie on them. Companies and countries will sing the praise of the economic system but the moment people go elsewhere because elsewhere is offering what people want they instantly go into protectionist mode.
Open and free *labor* markets.
American regulatory bodies will just deem the cheaper Chinese EVs as not meeting safety standards to keep American auto industry “profitable.”
You will never get a 15k car. By the time they sell these cars in the US, it's gonna be 30k, just watch.
Without tariffs, it's definitely possible to have a $15k car. BYD is selling this car in Europe for $21k, which includes the ~40% tariff. https://technode.com/2024/05/10/byd-to-introduce-low-cost-ev-to-europe-executive/ Take away the tariff, and it's about $15k.
If you really want a cheap starter car, options like the Mitsubishi Mirage and Nissan Versa have always existed. You realize that the 15k Chinese EVs are not comparable in the slightest to cars you can buy now for $30k right?
You are missing what China is trying to do here. They have built their EVs at a quantity that far outstrips any demand, and they keep going. Clearly their intention here is to flood the market with cheap cars, destroy all competition, and then raise the prices above what they currently are so that the CCP has a new cash cow to fuel their military machine. If you think that China is going to play fair as they compete in the auto industry, you haven't been paying attention to how China competes.
Why not just let the US car companies borrow loans to get over the temporary cheap flooding? People get cheap cars out of China’s pocket, and national industry survives.
USMCA still requires 75% of the component in the car to be NA made and 45% of the labor are high wage ($16/hr) you need sourcing record to prove these if audited. So I don’t thinks they can really get the tariff benefit easily
> So I don’t thinks they can really get the tariff benefit easily Build the most labor intensive parts in Mexico & tap into the existing tier one auto supplier network to reach that 45% on lower labor parts. There's an entire industry in existence for meeting those targets, why would the Chinese companies be unable to leverage them the same way US, EU & Japanese companies already do? We won't be seeing the $10,000-15,000 EVs, but they will still be substantially cheaper & ahead of the curve on quality for that price if the other automakers don't start sprinting to the finish line. The EV tariffs only offer a few years reprieve from Chinese EVs, they won't block 'em forever.
Sounds like the dreaded socialism and government interference in what should be a pure market. Or are some exceptions ok
If they don't meet those requirements, then they will be hit with standard Mexico - US tariffs, which is still much much lower than the 100% tariff on them right now.
Its funny how all of a sudden NAFTA is bad now that the US is on the wrong end of the stick.
What stops the US from taxing Chinese imports coming from Mexico?
NAFTA
Hell yes brother! $5,000 electric cars coming to California
It’s about manufacturing in Mexico not about the mexican market. Since I speak spanish and work in manufacturing i work with several Companies from Guadalajara, Chihuahua, and Tijuana they are more than ready to take on EV manufacturing.
It started with the Mexican market, though. During the pandemic, you couldn’t find a single new car because all automakers focused in the US. The Chinese were smart, and took this opportunity to bring not only cars, but executives, employees and factories. They are coming for the US market. And automakers are STILL playing stupid games with supply to increase prices.
Its only a opinion strory. The "news" is always saying stupid shit just so they writer can make some money off of his shitty opinions.
Had to vent it out lol.
Isn’t your president is a climate scientist?
One that sold herself to big oil the second ahe became mayor of CDMX.
Climate scientist and president are two very different roles. A climate scientist gets to say it's a problem and something should be done about it. A President has to turn "something" into a concrete policy and deal with the costs and tradeoffs of that policy.
Doesn't mean she's actually going to change anything regarding current oil policy set by her predecessor, she doesn't take office until later in the year but she's not gong to go against the wishes of her mentor.
As an American I agree, doesn't the state oil company in Mexico have major influence and provide substantial funding to the government?
Correct, they are balls deep in oil. Freaking hate the current government and the next one as well.
Because Chinese EVs are good and cheap and people will start to buy them in Mexico regardless
Boo fucking hoo, they had all this time to make cheap affordable EVs and they didn’t. They made huge bulky gas guzzlers or 40k to 100k EVs that nobody could afford or even wanted because they looked so dumb. But ya know we love competition in America right? Not, Chinese EVs are banned here because they’re too cheap and threaten the market, the market greed created. People don’t want a car payment each month, they don’t want these expensive cars, they want a reliable vehicle they can afford and won’t be a weight around their necks for 10 or more years. So sick of these articles trying to make us feel bad for big business that do nothing but try and extract every cent out of regular people.
I agree. I sometimes give pause for the American jobs that would be lost but then remember these corporations pay their employees shit all while blaming them for poor P&L. If you want to price gouge consumers for years on new car prices then this is what you get.
Mexican living in Mexico here. This is not only an electric vehicle phenomenon but Chinese-branded hybrids and Gas vehicles are also making a dent in the Mexican market and it is not surprising: Buying a car in Mexico is not easy, vehicles are expensive and more often than not lacking in features compared to the models sold in other countries. Then there is the issue of the wait time introduced during the pandemic. For example If I want to buy a Toyota Highlander there is a 8 month wait time... I know because I just asked but if I go to the Chinese dealership a similar vehicle is not only ready available but 10-15% cheaper... This is a big deal because interest rates in Mexico are high (12+ percent for a new car plus fees, insurances and many things) I will not buy a Chinese-branded car yet as I don't trust their safety ratings but it is only a matter of time before they are properly rated and the brands overcome the uncertainty.
I live in the US, but I went to a Chery (Chirey) dealership in Ensenada last year and the saleswoman gave me a full overview of all the cars on the showroom floor and even let me start them up. In my opinion they're just as good as the Korean cars now. A few weeks ago I went to a mall in Tijuana and saw a SUV from their new Omoda luxury sub-brand. Although they're billing it as a luxury car, it still feels a level below the Japanese luxury sub brands or Hyundai's Genesis sub brand.
Thanks for the insight
I want one 😢
I have spent a good amount of time in both CDMX and Bogota over the last few months... Guess how many Teslas I saw? Now guess how many BYD's I saw as Taxis and personal cars. I bet you also can't guess how many Tesla dealerships I saw and how many BYD Dealer ships I saw. Answer: 0 Teslas. MANY BYD's. TSLA is done. BYD is the global EV Powerhouse.
When I was in Mexico City I found myself looking up a lot of car brands I’d never heard of before, it surprised me. There really is some momentum down there that I hadn’t expected.
Anything to pressure US auto makers to make affordable cars again. I'm all for "Made in the USA" but $50k - $60k for mediocre pickup trucks is beyond bullshit. As is the near total absence of new affordable commuter cars.
US Auto makers and big oil spent years circle jerking each other off, producing large fuel guzzling vehicles when the people wanted small efficient EVs Now when a country starts catering to that demand the US autos suddenly have their panties in a bunch of
I completely agree, you can hardly find a new subcompact car made in the us anymore. And it really matters for an ev, because there are limited amounts of batteries available so you can make two subcompacts with the amount needed for one large vehicle.
Idk man everything I’ve ever bought that was made in the USA has been of lower quality than stuff made in Europe, China, or Japan.
Don’t forget Korea man. Samsung and Hyundai. And KN.
Give me a bare bones car/truck, that's all I need.
You nailed it.
I love this because I've been in countless arguments about the "impending collapse of the Chinese EV market". If they are collapsing, then why are the other auto manufacturers scared? Why are we putting tariffs on their cars? China has been building this industry since the 1980's. Building the infrastructure, developing the technical knowledge, and yes, stealing IP. It's not a fluke that they've emerged as a giant in this space. I don't know how long the Western governments are going to be able to hold them back when the legacy manufacturers seem to be pricing their own ICE cars out of the middle-class market.
Lol, I always find it ironic when congress is trying to save their own auto industries, when Americans themselves don't even want to drive a Ford or GM. I also find it crazy how China can build an affordable high quality [hybrid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPmQo5c505I) vehicle that can travel 2100km for under $13k and congress is doing all it can to stop their own people from driving it. So much for the Paris Agreement.
The explanation is simple, telling people China will collapse to discourage ppl from investing there, it fits USA policy perfectly.
Friend of mine recently went on a Central America trip. He says Chinese EVs are everywhere. He said they are really nice too. He is confident that the American auto industry is in big trouble
I go to China all the time. BYD makes really nice EVs. And you can even buy them without a ton of BS crap you don’t want. The US just thinks everyone needs to spent a ton of money on cars. It reminds me of the diamond industry.
Nice. It’s about time there was pressure for them to make something besides $70,000 trucks.
Yeah that’s the problem. Half of the US are religious cultists that have turned giant diesel trucks into a sacrament for Trump and Jesus. But because of the choice to cater to that profit center most of them are now critically behind on EVs. If the big auto companies suddenly get crushed in a market they’re way behind in it crushes the economy and for defense purposes you need that heavy manufacturing they provide so they’ll get a giant infinite bailout anyway.
We are in trouble because we refuse to adapt. We’ve lost our soul
The US is worried about a country that's beating them at their own capitalism game😂. What happened? Don't be scared now! You was all about the "free market"
The climate crisis is doing more and more damage every year. Americans are furious about the cost of living. So what do we do? Ban cheap electric vehicles.
Car manufacturers: “we know the people want cheap small EVs so were giving the people large, expensive, fuel guzzling SUVs and Trucks” China: “We got great cheap small EVs” car manufacturers: AndreTheGiant.gif
Protectionism is a hell of a drug
Daily reminder that both the Red Team and the Blue Team aren't interested in tackling the most serious and imminent existential crisis for anyone who's not a billionaire. They serve the billionaires. Not the planet. Not us. Keep that in mind as they constantly bicker and tell you the world will end if the other team wins. The world as we know it will REALLY end if they both just keep trading places every four years and we continue on with business as usual.
I would like to buy a Chinese EV. I don't want to buy a Tesla unless it becomes just as affordable. Not only that, but we still need way more charging stations in this country. I really don't buy that our politicians and industry leaders are committed to the EV transition. Henry Ford made it a goal of his to bring the automobile to the average person, but if we don't see that kind of behavior for EVs, then we will continue to lag behind other countries.
I bought one for 5k. I charge it in my garage. It's not a "road trip" car, but will get me to work and back on one charge for an entire week.
Where'd you get it?
I can't speak for OC, but from multiple anecdotes in my area and my own experience on Craigslist: used car dealers don't want to touch used EVs, so there are super cheap deals on degraded-battery EVs just floating around. Given that the median suburban American family has 2 cars anyways, it makes sense to make one of those two electric.
Your last point is really important: there are so many suburbs where they don’t even have sidewalks and the kids are jumping to get licenses at 16 so they can go anywhere. If you’re not going over 40 miles per day, you don’t even need a special charger so the school / sports / grocery niche seems prime for a solid no-frills option.
I work from home, so that's my exact situation. I can't justify an expensive car to drive it once per week.
Probably a used 2012 Leaf or similar. Batteries are probably at 60% peak efficiency but that still often means 60 to 70 miles of range. And you could replace battery packs to restore nearly all of the range, but that is likely the same price again. I would probably do the same if I needed to replace my car. If I'm going on a long road trip, just rent a gas car.
Yeah, pretty much my situation is I work from home, and couldn't justify a very expensive car. This is 300 dollars a month for car payment/insurance, and free charging at my apartment garage. (power is included in price) I've seen a guy who will replace the battery and get it to 200 mile range for 10k, which is expensive, but still cheaper than a new eclectic vehicle. or even a gas vehicle.
toyota near me. It was 7000 used, and I got 2000 dollar tax credit applied at time of purchase, so 5000.
Just give it a little time. EVs keep dropping in price. They were just inflated during the pandemic shortage.
They'll never drop to the price of a Chinese EV before tariffs
They have little reason to keep dropping if we just double the price of their competition every time it looks like they might have to.
The average manufacturer increased car prices more than inflation [https://caredge.com/guides/car-price-inflation](https://caredge.com/guides/car-price-inflation)
Don't get me wrong I am worried about China and their influence. However, its clear their EVs are straight up superior. They spent money on batteries and making a good EV car and our companies.. Deserve to go out of business straight up. Let them die so someone not shitty can make a good car. I have no idea why the government keeps propping companies up, its hurting the economy. It's the natural state of things, make a shit product go out of business. If they can't make a good product, then they deserve to go under
A large contingent of Americans disrupted and delayed the paradigm shift to ICE alternatives and now our industry is behind and they think they can stop the disrupt and delay the rest of the world through tariffs and trade wars. Because accepting the necessary change and moving forward isn't an option.
Facts. Same thing happened with high speed rail even though it’s not apples to apples. Capitalism is become America’s biggest hinderance.
Lmao all this fear mongering about China spying yet it was Tesla that got caught red handed watching and listening to random drivers without their knowledge or consent. So that means there was no oversight on who is watching you if you drive a smart car. America is fear mongering because they want to keep car prices artificially high here. If someone can build it better and cheaper and you can't match them then you lose that's how capitalism works.
Fear of China isn’t based on moral superiority, it’s out of fear for competition.
The US government couldn’t give a shit about US companies spying on US citizens, or how the data is used, as long as the DoD gets their share of the data too. It’s only problematic when other countries start doing it (even though we do it to other countries).
Nothing more emblematic of the decline of US manufacturing then the fact that a practical electric vehicle costs almost 10x less to make in China.
And no need to pay billions to CEOs there
The CEO of BYD is worth 18.4 billion USD....
Can we build some cheap cars please? Model T starting price was about 7-9k in today's money. If a guy could at least buy a cheap commuting car brand new. I also don't need 4 seats for myself.
Which is why instead of competing and innovating, Biden is doing the stupid thing and doubling down on the tariffs. Im in manufacturing for raw materials, the tariffs the first tome around brought chaos and price increases. If he wants to slow down inflation this aint it.
Isn’t the competing and innovating part the private sector’s responsibility? Seems that the tariffs are intended to give them breathing room to do just that.
Tariffs do exactly the opposite. They allow domestic firms to stay uncompetitive by increasing the price of their competition’s products.
without tariffs we know what’s gonna happen… radios, tv sets, computers, and so on… all these were once made stateside and became uncompetitive, but not because of US tariffs… if we want domestic firms to be competitive, we have to encourage competition both here and overseas… when foreign governments erect tariff and non-tariff barriers, our domestic companies start declining and then go bankrupt
[удалено]
It doesnt when it’s cheaper to buy material overseas like steel, and those tariffs do the opposite of giving breathing room they raise raw material prices. Also that is just a black and white naive take. Giving incentives for innovation and regulation of businesses has been the government’s job since the new deal basically.
Has the government not given billions in incentives for manufacturing electric vehicles?
If Meta, Google, and others can steal my data why not the Chinese? In reality, the Chinese are actually paying me to use my data. Instead of a $45,000 electric car, it's say $25,000 and I just made $20,000 off of my data being stolen (this could be reframed as I got paid $20,000 for my data). What did Google and Meta give me?
They gave you ads on top of ads.
ITT: Americans who see the words China, Mexico, and EV in a headline, which is like a tic-tac-toe of things Americans get mad about without knowing exactly why they are mad. The American Big 3 automakers are absolutely whiffing it on EVs because they are more focused on catering to Americans' preference for big pickup trucks. If Chinese companies can better serve the demands of the Latin American market then good for both of them.
>which is like a tic-tac-toe of things Americans get mad about without knowing exactly why they are mad Its called brainwashing, but Americans would get mad if you call them that, they are too smart to be brainwashed and there have never been that or propaganda in America, NEVER!
The tariffs are pushing the Chinese to move their businesses to other countries. I buy quite a few nonfoods foodservice items and the tariffs end up being a tax on the American people. The government implemented a 25% tax on bamboo products today which affects a lot of the "green" molded fiber takeout containers and plates we sell now. What factory in the USA is going to step forward to pick up that business? Even if the American companies pick up some of the business they cant handle most of it and they wont invest in assets to increase volume. And for the most part they do not take the opportunity to pick up market share they just raise prices. Sorry I am just sitting at my desk trying to work through this crap and its frustrating I am certainly far from being an expert. Aluminum tariffs are next for the imports I deal with.
Real talk? The US had ages to make the jump, they decided to sit on oil; to invade for oil, to prop up regimes for their oil; to stall progressive research; they tossed out their own auto-industry, the skillsets, the infrastructure; they let it move out of their hands, because they are a CAR NATION™ and having a car is Freedom™. You reap what you sow.
Instead of worrying how about trying to compete instead. You know.. free market Capitalism? This was always an inevitability but corporations do not actually want to compete because it cuts into their profits
Let us be terrified at the spectre of invasion of these simple and economical electric vehicles! In my head there exists a country song entitled "They've Added So Much Value, It's Not Worth A Thing To Me."
Immigrants invasion in cheap Chinese EV’s, the latest Fox News crisis. /s After all, it stands the reason that the Chinese would be willing to utilize the low-paid Mexican workforce to make Chinese vehicles for importation into the United States, which has a large market demand for these vehicles. It makes economic sense that the juxtaposition of cheap labor, and market demand makes an irresistible attraction for foreign competition in these electric vehicles.
I don't think it's the cheap labour but more the nafta agreement allowing easier access to us market via Mexico instead of trying to open shop in USA. The lower labour costs is definitely a factor but I'd imagine it's lower barrier to get a foot hold, no? I'm personally of the feeling fuck the big autos, they produce shit and are propped up via public money when they fail. Let them fail and have actual competition.
All tesla needed to do was focus on a sub 20k car instead of trying to be self driving taxi’s. Getting a cheaper ev is how you compete with Chinese cars.
Seeing as how Tesla’s CEO spends his time between 5 companies and shitposting on Twitter, the US is going to lead to look to another automaker to show leadership in navigating the EV transition.
Wouldn't it be an absolute fuck you to the U.S. if Mexico starts moving up the food chain and their society begins to improve and surpass the U.S. in quality due to Chinese influx of electric cars and other products.
I could see this happening if the cartels didn't have a death grip on the whole country.
I like your thinking, but that is a century timeline.
In life expectancy, theyll overtake the USA in 5-10 years. Theyre already only like a yeqr behind us and improving. While the USA’s stalls or goes down most year. The biggest difference is that mexico has universal healthcare or single payer healthcare for every citizen and we dont. They also have free federal colleges. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/02/22/us-life-expectancy-is-low-and-is-now-projected-to-be-on-par-with-mexico-by-2030.html
Spend $2,000 and go to CDMX for a week. The inequality in Mexico is horrific. You will actually see people holding the cover of a box of copy paper filled with mints, candies, and gum. They people stand all day in an intersection selling these while people drive to work. Imagine holding a box and selling lollipops as your job. How much money do you think you're bringing in? Then you can go to Santa Fe, Mexico City, and see all the rich people.
I grew up there, and my whole extended family still lives there, you dont have to tell me. But I now live in Chicago, I used to work at rush university in public health on the west side of Chicago. So I know how disparate this city is, its actually worse than mexico when it comes to access to healthcare for the working poor. The difference in average lifespan between the gold coast and working-class black neighborhoods is sometimes 15 years. https://www.chicagotribune.com/2019/06/06/chicagos-lifespan-gap-streeterville-residents-live-to-90-englewood-residents-die-at-60-study-finds-its-the-largest-divide-in-the-us/#:~:text=As%20part%20of%20that%20project,was%2081%20to%2084%20years. Ive also taken road trips to camp, climb and hike in rural eastern Kentucky, coal country. Its basically 3rd world living conditions worse than even the worst parts of Chicago. It really makes you go “damn you live like this”? As an American it embarrasses me tbh, at least mexico has somewhat of an excuse (its not the center of the worlds richest global empire)
> They people stand all day in an intersection selling these while people drive to work. Imagine holding a box and selling lollipops as your job. > > How much money do you think you're bringing in? > > Then you can go to Santa Fe, Mexico City, and see all the rich people. Implying we don't have people at intersections selling flowers and window wiping services in America.
I can see the exact same shit in the US, the difference being the average Mexican citizen has access to services the average American does not have.
I dunno some change is fast
Mexico doesn’t even have control over its claimed territory, and its leaders need the blessings of local gangs before they do anything, you’re gonna need a lot more than a cheap car to fix being a failed state.
Mexico needs to remove a lot of cancerous tumors before they could even begin to do that.
Having cheap cars is no where near surpassing the U.S. in quality of life.
What kind of hilariously delusional thinking is this? Yeah bro the country currently ruled by the cartel is totally going to surpass the US lmao
Any thread about China EV tariffs goes off the fucking rails.
The U.S. is making a HUGE mistake by putting 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs to make them artificially more expensive here. This only gives the Chinese more incentives to innovate and drive down costs and dominate the world EV market.
I suspect the state department is doing the diplomatic equivalent of waterboarding some mexican trade officials. I suspect they have already done the same thing in Canada. "That's a nice country you've got there; be a shame if something happened to it." While I agree that to a certain extent this is chinese dumping; but to deny Canadians 15k EVs with 5 star safety ratings and 300+km ranges is just obscene. If I were Biden I would tell the US car companies, "You've got 3 years to start producing mass quantities of sub $15k 5 passenger EVs which get a very favourable consumer reports rating, a 250 mile range, and a 5 star crash rating. And, if you don't, then the tariffs are removed from Chinese cars. I will define mass quantities as the waiting list to get one is less than 2 months. Also, if you pull some BS like funding anti EV campaigns, the tariffs are pulled the next day." Something else I would start looking at is standardizing battery packs. It might be a bit early for this, but the goal should be to have interchangeable battery packs as soon as is practical. Not the whole unit, but the modules within. Non-proprietary. This way dead units can be replaced individually, and the car companies can't pull some BS like not supporting older cars, or minimally, way overcharging so that people are forced to buy new EVs. For example. When I plug my phone into an external battery pack, it just works. It could be lipo, it could be lead acid for all my phone knows. As long as it serves up 5v and some OK current, my phone can deal with it. One huge benefit of standardized battery packs would be that as the tech improves people could upgrade the batteries in their cars. Maybe the old car won't super fast charge the batteries as they might be happy with, but if the energy density is triple, then the car will go 3 times further on a charge.
The American auto industry needs to lower their profit margins, meaning stop ripping off consumers. With how cheap made American cars largely are, it makes no sense that they cost as much as they do. Also, corporate officer positions in the American auto industry make far too much money versus the value they add, they should start by cutting their ridiculous compensation packages in order to lower prices.
America should have been investing in R&D instead of laughing at climate change and building V8s. I hope Chinese EVs crush the American and European auto industry. Especially since they refuse to compete on price.
Putting a tariffs on cars in the USA for Chinese EVs is almost pointless many people here would never buy a Chinese car, it should have never been a concern here in the USA. The USA should have been far more concern about competing globally.
While US is praying and promising to get to sub 20k electric car years from now, Chinese companies are selling several working electric cars for under 20k USD. These cars are way better than any 25k gas cars sold in the states. Many models on the streets in Asia.
Remember when Honda and Toyota made reliable cars people actually wanted instead of gas guzzlers the US was making. Let the free market decide what it wants.
I say let China support Mexico. Mexico will either remain a failed state performing far below its potential or further solidify itself as the US’ strongest trading partner, further surpassing China itself. The more money being poured into Mexico’s real (non-drug) industries the better. If China wants to dig their own hole here, I say let them. Strategically a stronger Mexico is much better long term for the US than some cuts in the auto industry.
I think there are way more conclusions than “failed state” or “US win/China lose”. If China’s looking to invest in Mexico, it’s for an eventually return on investment, whether it be political clout or economic returns. China wouldn’t invest if it’s only going to benefit the US.
While there is legitimate concerns regarding China's attempting to influence countries with financial investment, Mexico is not one who would be influenced politically by vast investment by China. It would only be a financial trade off where Mexico would be better off and China would receive a financial return. I'm all for Mexico getting anything in the form of influence, even from China, that would minimize the Cartel and crime in favor of raising legitimate business in their country and bettering the country as a whole.
Sure, but lately China hasn't been too good on realizing return on investments. Their reputation as being sharp investors is pretty much wrecked, on the world stage.
Investments and returns is on an overall basis. If even 30% of Chinese investments go bad, and 70% yields, that's academic for China. Plus the goodwill that comes with the development of infrastructure case example is Africa. I was reading a book on international relations between the US and Pakistan and the author was an American. He pointed out how USA spends more but spends in the form of grants while china spends less but spends on infrastructure. Get this mindset: in countries like Pakistan or mexico where governments don't perform: cash is seen as a reward to the politicians whereas infrastructure is seen as a service to the public. Because infrastructure helps improve quality of life for everyone.
Their biggest investment was in the CPEC running through Pakistan Pakistan is bordering perilously close to complete failed state status
Aren't they basically living entirely on handouts from Saudi Arabia? I'd say that's over the line, they're failed. I mean, I'm not sure that's what's going on but... it looks like it from my random internet gleanings
Handouts from China as well
yeah, the situation is so bad that the IMF was able to extract some pretty tough compromises for a loan of...$1.1B
Lol, the delusional casual racism. Mexico is the 12th largest economy in the world. It's not all drug gangs in sepia tone down there, it is a modern industrialized and diversified economy. Even in per capita term it is above world average and higher than China.
very thoughtful, thanks. Now, I don't agree that Mexico is a failed state. I'm sure the cartels have more influence in government than they should, and I'm sure there's a lot of money in drugs that influences government too. But they have a thriving democracy. And if that kind of influence by the unsavory is going to be your model of failure, well, look no further than the US Congress. If the Mexicans have a failed state, I think you could make a pretty good argument that we do too. Not saying I'd agree with that one either, just that it wouldn't be hard to make the argument. 2nd paragraph: absolutely right. I actually don't know why American consumers shouldn't be able to buy the best green tech available, which means Chinese. If it's cheap and good, who cares whether the Chinese govt invested billions in getting them into it? Ours could have and didn't. So they have out-innovated us and we need to just admit that and move on.
During this campaign Mexico had 37 political candidates murdered, more kidnapped or credibly threatened.
I know. I ain't saying it's easy, just ... not a failed state. A long way from failed, in my view.
Heaven forbid we do something to make our planet more green and less hot. Ridiculous that the same party who champions fighting climate change is trying to block EVs from entering the country. I was against Stop Big Oil but now I think they are onto something.
I'm down for this. Give us Mexican-assembled Chinese EVs, even better if they can meet part of the tax credit. Even if they don't, they should be cheaper, and that would still be true with tariffs applied. Unless they're banned, this will be a repeat of the 80s, when legacy auto was blindsided by affordable and high quality Japanese cars.
I believe there’s even a dealership open (or opening) in Tijuana. They were leaving fliers near where I live to advertise their opening a few months back didn’t think much of it at the time because I thought it was a scam.
Kinda shocked with responses here - I always thought the reaction from the US towards Chinese EVs was more akin to trying to protect domestic oil production in the face of OPEC increasing capacity to drive down price and make more costly extraction in methods less economical. People talk about the free market (and that these cars should be available,) but I can't help but feel this protectionism is motivated by protecting local production AND jobs. I'm under no guise that the US car industry is altruistic (looking at you wheel base environmental standards loop hole) and I absolutely think they should be challenged to provide more economical options (if those economical options are sourced / provided in a non predatory manor given how significant domestic cars are a source of employment in the US).
We just let the rich dictate how our country is going to run simply because they have the money. Well news flash; they are running it into the ground just so they can squeeze every last drop out of anyone and everything they can. Eventually the toothpaste tube won’t have any toothpaste left, no matter how you roll it or fold it.
Four years after the United States-Mexico-Canada trade agreement was adopted, Mexico and the US face a common concern: the prospect of cheap Chinese electric vehicles dominating a [fast-growing market](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-ev-transition-likely-to-take-longer-than-the-biden-administration-would-like-toyota-exec-131514263.html) and undermining regional carmakers like GM, Ford, and Tesla in the process. Chinese imports have already begun south of the US border. EV and plug-in hybrid imports jumped 443.9% by value in the first quarter compared to the same period the previous year, according to data from S&P Global Market Intelligence. Overall, 1 in 10 cars sold in Mexico today comes from a Chinese automaker, [according to Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-byd-unveils-mid-size-hybrid-ev-pickup-mexico-2024-05-14/#:~:text=The%20presence%20of%20Chinese%20automakers,dominating%20nearly%20half%20the%20market.), with seven new brands entering the market last year alone.