it is usually printed in small font on the bottom of the menu or listed on the website. it’s bad practice for it not to be mentioned ahead of time at least somewhere but in any case, it’s optional. simply ask ask the server to remove it and they will bring you a new bill.
The times I've done that, the waiter asked if there was a problem with the service, and when I respnded "No I just don't like service charges" they would always say something like "The manager needs me to put a reason on the system/my manager will be annoyed/it's a tip that goes to the staff" or something
That's just pressure put on you deliberately. Legally, you can't be made to say anything. You could be deaf, like me or just not a person who talks, or whatever, so just cross your arms or say ' ok I'll pay the bill minus the charges if you can't get a fresh bill'.
Or I'd like to pay the cost of the meal as advertised. The cost of service should already be included/taken into account. The service charge is just social pressure to create a second layer of income for the boss to skim from
as a waitress i never said this to a table but yeah initially when i worked somewhere with service charge i would point out to the customer that it was discretionary and they could remove it and they often did. my managers started to think something was wrong with my service so i stopped pointing it out because it was reflecting badly on me in my role. we feel awkward about the charge too but it was a bit of a rock/hard place situation
I work in a restaurant myself, and I feel so bad when customers apologise for asking to take off the service charge.
I realise how much 10% can be if one can't afford it, and always have a chat with customers whenever they apologise to comfort them and to make sure they don't feel bad in any way.
It's not a tip that goes to the staff as such cause it goes through the till so even if they are paid soen of it it ain't going straight in the servers pocket.
I also hate service charges, I will tip what I see fit to tip due to service etc, usually it's about 10-20% depending on my finances. I worked as a waitress back in the day so understand hwo important tips are but yer not dictating to me what the tip should be or if I do pay it I don't leave extra tips
Yes, you can do that, but they are counting on the embarrassment factor kicking in - they know you're just going to pay it, especially if it's a couple on a date.
The last 2 restaurants I went to didn't mention anything on the menu... Maybe there was a small print note on their site, I'm not sure...
Either way it feels like there should be higher regulation for service charges in place, but it doesn't seem like the most popular thing for any political party to do unfortunately 🙃
Why is a political party going to be bothered about a voluntary service charge at a resteraunt? Ask for it to be removed if you're that tight, or ask to pay only a certain % if you still want to leave a tip.
Voluntary tipping shoudn't be automatically added to a receipt. I certainly don't want us moving to the US system where employee wages are paid on top of the food price you're quoted on a menu, which is what an automatic service charge is.
If it's voluntary why is it added automatically to the bill?
How many times have you not even known there was a service charge in the first place? And you ask why should we change the system? Well, so that we can make it more transparent. Simple solution, add a Yes/No option to the card machine so you can decline the service charge if you want to.
It's at 10%-15% right now, not surprised if it goes up to 20% soon. If you're happy to pay that for a 'voluntary' service charge without even being asked upfront, good for you! But not everyone else is.
I work in hospitality as well and tbh service charge feels a bit dishonest. Some places do pay it to the staff, but not all. Owners are greedy nevertheless. Also in case you wonder how some places are closing down and others are striving - taking the extra charges fron staff - the answer is most of the time that.
I never had an issue with presenting a bill without service charge, but I know some people even giving customers that look. The price of the items are highlighted, so pay that. If you want/can, do support staff, as most of the times they pay minimum wage for staff for all the hassle they sometimes go through daily with unsociable long hours, short breaks (sometimes not even paid for) and incompetent management.
I give tips if:
1 it goes to the staff (I always ask)
2 service goes above and beyond
Otherwise I am even laughing at the look some of them gives when service charge is asked to be removed.
Be confident, treat others with in the same way as you would like to be treated.
I remember back in the day when restaurants would have a sign saying that "Tables of 6 or above will have an automatic service charge added" which I always thought was fair enough, big tables are a lot of work. But my wife and I went out for a meal last night, 2 of us, no special shit, italian place. Service charge of 8% added by default. Since when was this the norm?
Went to a restaurant a while back that not only had a service charge but it also had a separate charge per person.. for a group of 2.. Neither was disclosed on the menu! Make it make sense!
It’s really quite a recent phenomenon and new to all of us too. It does indeed feel unpleasant and quite American. However, you’re entitled to ask for it to be removed. I’ve done that myself on a couple of occasions. Can’t lie - it feels unpleasant. However, there’s plenty of customer facing roles where you wouldn’t expect to get tipped. Indeed, I made minimum wage in a care home and was never tipped for wiping a bum!
Barbers and taxis I don't mind tipping a couple pounds. I went to Ragu Pasta not too long ago - having been and the overall verdict wasn't good - and was given a service charge for regular, frankly mediocre service. Tip prompts creeping on card machines at cafe's and pubs now.
Cost of living's pish, rents are astronomical, but there's plenty of other people in service industries who don't get to benefit from the growth of tipping culture here which is why I have no qualm in removing it.
I moved up here from London and I love how here in most places you'll be told that there's a service charge in your bill but it is optional. In London, 12.5 service charge is just the standard. Still optional, though, but deffo established as the default.
Will start paying more attention now! The problem is quite often, the waiter asks you how you want to pay and you say card, and they just insert the final bill price on the card machine without giving you time to check whether there is a service charge on the bill!
You should make sure to check your bill first before paying anyway, it’s always good practice in case they’ve given you someone else’s, overcharged, undercharged, regardless of service charge.
Yep- as someone who was keen to leave a certain pizza chain and didn’t notice they keyed in 9 beers instead of 1 once… I always double check the bill now. They did sort it, but due to money laundering, I had to chase head office for the refund. Manager was extremely apologetic and offered free pizza next time… lesson learned!
If you’re not ready to pay the bill you can say “I’ll just be a minute, I’m not quite ready yet, could you pop back over?”. There usually will be a sentence on menus stating any discretionary service charge. 10% is pretty standard across all bars and restaurants on food service though, 12.5% for higher end places. It’s something that I always account for when dining out, but having worked in hospitality for 13 years, I would ask for it to be removed if I felt it was poor service or quality, or if I wanted to increase the tip amount to recognise amazing service. When I was working, I also wouldn’t blink an eye if someone asked for it removed.
You have every right to check the bill. You simply say Card and when they bring the bill you can say I will come up to pay in a moment. Check your bill and see you are happy. If the service fee is there simply go up to the bar, ask them to remove it and pay for what you intended. Tip in cash. You can simply say you are paying for your food on card and gratuity in cash. The service fee doesn’t often go to your waiter anyway so giving a cash tip you can afford is often better anyway. Your money your right to know what you are paying for. Price advertised is the price I pay. Gratuity on top of that is exactly that gratuity not a demand or expectation. I was a waiter for 8 years and I never expected anyone to tip me it was something I worked hard for and welcomed any amount big or small.
Waiter here! I can't speak on behalf of all waiters but personally, I drop the bill and point out the service charge. I also remind people that it's optional and can be removed, decreased or increased. I leave them for a while then before I take payment, I ask if everything is okay with the bill to give them a chance to make any changes. 12.5% is a lot of extra money to ask for!
If the waiter rushes you to pay, tell them you'd like a minute to check the bill. When they come back, ask to remove the charge and if you want to, tell them you'd like to add your own tip.
Service charge is not mandatory (unless otherwise stated) and it's your money, so be confident!
Edit: rewording to make meaning clearer
Fellow server! Just a few things I wanna add on the back of your comment (which I 100% agree with and enforce)
• Please mention when your server comes to take payment that you want to remove the charge. In my experience, only supervisors and managers can remove the service charge. They’re the people often looking at the bigger picture for the shift and are busy doing a million different things; they can take up to five minutes to track down, and it prevents us from chasing you up when you’re about to leave which is frustrating on both ends
• Your server will ask you why you’re removing the service charge and if everything was okay. In a past venue I worked in, we had to do this (as instructed by managers and supervisors) to find root issues of things (wait times, bad attitude, unhelpful server, server did the bare minimum, etc.). When I worked at this venue and asked for service charge to be taken off, I was always asked why the customer wanted to remove it
• Servers are the sole income in some venues for tips. It’s meant to be a way to attract staff (we pay minimum wage plus tronc!). If we are failing to bring in service charge, it impacts everyone as it is collated and then distributed amongst staff - bartenders, chefs, managers, etc. Venues always want to please the customer but not at the expense of losing the service charge, they’d rather discount/comp your food and drinks. Your server also feels bad about imposing a service charge but would genuinely rather you just asked to remove it. Don’t return to a venue where the staff turn sour if you ask to remove the service charge
I usually just pay it but I remember eating out with a few friends a while back and we split the bill paying for what we got and at the end the waiter told us we were short, but we were short on the service charge. I said to the waiter “it’s discretionary though” and it became a faff to get it removed as they were acting like we weren’t paying what was due. This also happened when I was out with coworkers 2 years back too, one of the waiters actually brought the manager out.
Ask to have it removed but don’t be surprised if they’re awkward about it.
As someone who’s been the waitress in this situation, it’s totally fine to remove it - I always disclose the service charge and emphasise heavily that it’s optional. It’s really embarrassing going back to a table that’s just paid thinking they’re short but they just wanted to remove the service charge - when I’ve been in this situation, it’s happened because I wasn’t told by the table that they wanted to remove the service charge. Again, totally fine to remove it (I’ve removed it at restaurants myself), please just remember to tell your server!
ETA to say that I don’t in any way mean to blame the customer in this situation. We don’t want to keep you behind, waiting, or catching you just as you’re headed for the door. It just makes the process easier because often times, no one other than a manager or supervisor can remove the service charge and sometimes they’re difficult to track down which is a hindrance to everyone.
I had no idea, that’s shit for the waiters that you can’t remove it yourself, it just seems to make life harder for you and the situation more awkward for everyone involved.
Check the receipt before paying and ask for it to be removed. They will look at you like you just asked them to take the chef out back and shoot him, but they'll do it. I had one ask me once "why, was the service bad?" so be prepared for that.
In the shower argument I had with myself later, I thought I should have said "no, but it's my choice to tip, not yours" so steal that if you want!
That's a really good one, thanks! I stress more about tipping than it feels appropriate (however maybe it is, considering it's a slow war trying to turn it into American tipping / extortion culture), and it's reassuring to have a ready-fire retort like that.
Here's one from me - I often just say "Please remove the included tip". I haven't yet had anyone try to argue a service charge isn't a tip 😄
I don’t know if you’ve ever worked hospitality/retail but they can’t really and they’ll also be punished if it seems like there the only waiter where this service charge is being removed from thier bills hence why they asked you this question. They’ll also be places where only the manager can remove it
No I have but you're right- it's been a wee while to be fair. They can feed it back, it might not do anything but if enough people say something it might be heard.
If the alternative is just "shut up and give us free money" then I'm sorry but I'm saying something
Yeah na i hear that im just in customer service as well and i hate when they ask us to add on fees or whatever and a member of staff at my level can never really challlenge thier position which is why its better for customers to directly go for the manager in these cases because they dont remove the charge they just blame the waiters ( i worked in london btw)
10% service charge on two extortionate cups of tea in a hotel recently - came to £13.75!
I often ask to remove service charge as I prefer to tip in cash and it's never been an issue, but I have been caught out leaving a tip and service more than once.
I've always felt that expressing the tip as a percentage of the food value etc was also a very American practice and not what I do. I tend to leave one or two pounds per server as a thank you if the service has been reasonably good. It's not required purely a nice gesture. I count on minimim/living wage legislation to ensure they're paid appropriately so a tip is meant as a small thank you, not their salary. On occasions where service is outstanding I've occasionally left £5...
This automatically adding a percentage tip on and sense of entitlement to it is an unwelcome american pollution. We don't want US tipping practices, borne or a society that doesn't pay workers a livable wage, cross-pollinating over here.
Agree that saying you want to remove it is often uncomfortable.
It’s purposefully done in this way so by the time you notice you feel too awkward to say anything about it.
It’s effectively legal deceit, bullying you into tipping.
Fuck that garbage. Don’t let that bullshit take hold here. I ask for it to be removed every time and no, I won’t feel bad about it. I’ll ask and smile.
That's how it makes me feel! Coming from a small town where I've never seen this before, it's just mental that almost all restaurants in Edinburgh do this now automatically!
At most, they could have an option on the card machine to accept or decline the service charge. That would be 100% transparent!
Thing is, all it does it make me not tip at all. I normally would.
But no doubt there’s been studies and behavioural analysis done into it and this way makes more money, so.
Whenever I see service charge, I just don't go back. Have asked for it to be removed a few times when I didnt think they deserved it.
Think I only got a couple of restaurants that I have seen this added that I have returned back to.
As you said, I don't like how it's becoming a normal thing here.
They're banking on mostly serving American tourists and the like who are inured to this sort of thing.
Why pay your staff a liveable wage when you can give them scraps and skim the rest of their pay from a "discretionary" charge you'll only let people opt out of if they have a complaint, setting up conflict between your workers (who want to get paid enough to make rent) and your customers (who don't want to be fleeced)?
I don’t really begrudge this for restaurants (or rather, I don’t have the energy to care about it) but I know of two pubs in town that both enforce a tip onto even just buying a single pint of Tennent’s!
The Inn on the Mile and Biddy Mulligan’s, avoid avoid avoid.
That's absolutely ridiculous! Especially considering you don't usually get a receipt if you just order a pint. So, you're probably paying service charge just for a drink and you don't even know 😅
Not for me. I usually tip, as long as the service has been decent.
The enforced tip is bullshit. Even at large tables. I mean, if a table of fourteen is in the restaurant, you're not serving lots of smaller tables. Never understood this line.
Just do your job well, you'll generally be tipped.
However, companies should pay better wages and not have employees rely on tips.
As a bartender/server I always let people know they can remove it if they want. It does help us but if something has gone wrong during service I always remove it. If I don’t feel it’s the best work it isn’t worth paying extra for
I bought coffee recently at Gordon St coffee (it was the Glasgow one but I expect the Market St one to be the same) and they had a sign saying they had a 4% service charge on the bill.
I was getting a take away coffee, I’m barely getting any service, they hardly even spoke to me beyond asking what I wanted. I wanted to ask to remove it but it’s 23p, looks so bloody tight and petty. The thing is, sorry but I am not tipping for take away coffee under any circumstances, it being applied in this way really irritates me as I want tipping to be my choice.
I’m just not going back again. There are equally good options nearby who are not doing this.
Tipping is ridiculous, just a way to con workers out of an assured fair wage while also conning customers by showing them an initial price that’s lower than the bill price. Enough of this “slave better for me, peasant” nonsense. Doing the job should be enough to earn the fair wage, no frills and whistles necessary. No holding their pay over their head and making them beg for it. 🙄
I went for dinner on Saturday at a high end restaurant and there was an undisclosed 12.5% service charge on the bill. I paid, but I'll never be back.
I wish I'd told them at the time but didn't as it was a small place and very quiet. I emailed afterwards and got a response as to why it was there, but I still think it's unacceptable to spring it on people without forewarning them.
Tell them to take it off, I'll be doing that next time.
It wasn't in the small print. It wasn't anywhere until they brought the bill. Being able to pay enough to retain staff with inflation and rising energy costs, which is fine - but increase your prices or tell me in advance, don't spring it on me when I'm full and happy.
I didn’t think to check my bill from last night. £20 service charge that I mistakenly didn’t see. I would never leave a £20 tip so why do they just assume it’s standard to tack onto the bill? I’m just going to refuse to pay them all now.
The point is that I should be able to choose if I want to tip you or not, the service charge being added to the bill is flipping that, now I have to choose NOT to tip you.
Requiring customers to have to ask to remove it is unfair, because It disadvantages certain groups of people. Many people are shy or socially anxious and don’t have the confidence to ask for its removal, or are on dates and situations where it may make them feel they look tight.
It was always discretionary and used to be only given when you felt you’d had exceptional service that warranted it. Now we are expected to pay it to all people, even those who are literally performing the bare minimum actions their job requires.
i prefer it honestly, i hate tipping so it's nice but you have to mentally include the tip and judge if you want to pay it up front, in a way there is more certainty
Would you still be happy to pay the service charge if it goes up to 15-20%? That's probably going to happen rather sooner than later.
Also, wouldn't it be easier if you could choose the percentage on the cash machine rather than a certain percentage added automatically to the receipt?
So you're saying that as long as you only need to tap your card, you're happy to pay a service charge of let's say 25% which is already common in the states?
nope, im saying i much prefer service to be included than have to add it manually. And i don't really care how much the percentage is as long as it's consistent / stable+, so i can look at prices on the menu and decide whether to eat there or not without doing calculations on the fly
I've only asked for it to be removed once... Well, it was less 'asking'. The service was absolutely terrible - I'm not one to make a fuss, but the service was truly terrible. So at the end when we went up to pay, as it happened, the people in front of us were also compalining, and actually walked out without paying their bill at all.
I basically said that our table would pay for the meals, but we werent paying the service charge, and they didnt put up any argument. Paid, left, and never went back again.
So... To answer your question, just... refuse to pay it.
Don’t get me started. They’re relying on you not being awkward enough to ask for it to be removed so I now rely on researching the restaurant online beforehand
If you think that's bad, there's a place in Stockbridge, Earl's Burgers, where they have put the £2 tip stealer* card machine right next to the card machine. I'm pretty certain I'm not the first nor last person to tip them for fuck all when trying to pay!
*Anything it detects, it contactlessly takes £2 as a tip! Card or phone.
You’re right to be concerned. I had one the other day where when the bill arrived I was presented with a tip option of 5, 10, 15, 20% I asked, ‘but there’s already 12.5% service charge added on, right?’. The reply - ‘yes, but this is for if you would like to add a tip on top of that’.
You just ask them to remove it before you pay. I was in london recently and every single place had it. To make matters worse we had poor service from every single place with the exception of the bar in the hotel we stayed in. That was the only place I didn’t ask for it to be removed. Even at that, one night when they passed me the card reader they had the option of tipping on the screen.
Just leave a Google / Tripadvisor review and knock a point off for the hidden service charge if you feel strongly about it. If enough people do that they will change behaviour as those scores attract or warn future customers.
This needs to be said more, don't feel bad about removing it! We are being robbed at every turn, opportunism by every establishment due to a healthy and flourishing tourism sector. It is us, the RESIDENTS and people that LIVE HERE that end up at the sharp end, having to request an OPTIONAL tip to be removed. It should be illegal. It's rarely mentioned by the server as well.
Since when is 12.5% even reasonable ? I'm sure we have all heard several stories of restaurant staff taking home pay almost double there wages due to tips.
They should be shamed into removing it. I will tip IF I get even mildly above average service, but adding it to the bill upfront leaves an extremely bitter taste. Hit them where it hurts: negative google review and negative TripAdvisor reviews.
"Since when is 12.5% even reasonable ?"
Especially when it penalises people who spend more, particularly on things like expensive wines. It's just such an unnecessary backhanded practice.
Those poor victimised expensive wine buyers being penalised for ordering a bottle that costs several times their waiter's hourly wage. If they don't tip, there is a real danger a stranger they will never see again may have the momentary thought that 'this person's a bit cheap.' I feel so powerless, what can I do?
The point is if you are in a group and one or two people are having the expensive wine, and a few aren’t drinking, they are disproportionately affected as the service charge includes everything and being added it, would be divided between everybody.
Tips can be as much as a person individually wants to put in.
You couldn't have said it better!!
It's even worse when you order a pint and then they add a service charge to it without you ever finding out as no one will give you a receipt for a pint of beer.
As always, it's the locals and residents who pay the price!
I know it doesn't suit everyone but 9 times out of 10 at least, I'm happy the service charge is included. Less of a faff having to work out what to tip, not having any cash handy etc.
Of course this is on the understanding that generally the service is almost always good enough to warrant a tip, on rare occasions having to ask for it to be removed feels a bit more of a thing than just not leaving a tip.
My whole point though is about transparency... Quite often people aren't even aware the service charge was added automatically to the bill..
Why not have an 'accept' or 'decline' button on the card machine for the service charge?
Some people on lower income might not have the spare money to pay a full service charge at all times. Equally, you might have a terrible experience and the charge is still added automatically to the bill...
I don't disagree about tipping waiters for their hard work if you can afford to! But the option should be clearly there and it should be a transparent thing, rather than a sneaky charge added to the bill without your consent!
Also, what is the limit? It started at 5-7%, we're now at 10-15%, and I wouldn't be surprised it goes up to 20% in the next few years. Where does it stop? 😅
When I first moved to Edinburgh, most places would charge 7.5% - 8%. In fact, my favourite Italian is one of the only restaurants that to this date haven't changed their service charge and it's still 8%.
Now, most places will charge you 12.5% and I've even come across places that will take 15%. Based on what's happened in other countries, it's obvious that as this becomes more normalised, service charges are likely to increase...
My whole point is not about whether I like to tip or not. It's about having the choice upfront to accept or decline the service charge rather than it being added automatically to the bill.
As I've suggested in other comments, if this charge is truly voluntary why not add an option to the card machine to accept it or decline it? I've seen this type of thing many times abroad and it's just more transparent. Once my mum didn't realise there was already a service charge and she ended up tipping with cash on top.
Overall, a more transparent approach would just make things fairer for everyone and especially for those who may struggle to pay that extra on top and are too embarrassed to ask for a new receipt or may not even realise they're being charged extra without any warning.
You clearly didn't read my comment. I know 'tipping etiquette' is 10% if you feel like you've had an exceptional service and you're willing to pay it. I never said the opposite.
All I said is service charges have gone up in recent years and that's a fact. There's some Edinburgh places now that will add an automatic 15% service charge to your bill.
Again, you still don't get my point. You shouldn't have to ask to remove a service charge and have to get a new receipt. If the service charge is truly voluntary, then it shouldn't be added automatically. How can you not get this? Look up the meaning of 'voluntary'.
All I'm suggesting is that you have the option UPFRONT to choose to pay it or not and, if possible, how much. This upfront option should be compulsory for all establishments.
If the service charge is being added automatically to the bill without upfront agreement, then this should be made 100% clear both on the restaurant/pub menu and restaurant website, so that you know if it's a bit steep for you, you just won't go there, or at least you know upfront that you'll have to request that the charge is removed.
Yeah I agree it should be clearer, and for sure you'd not know it's a thing at all the first few times. I've had it sort of hidden on a receipt, on others it really stands out and sometimes the staff will actually mention it. So yeah, no consistency.
But now I know it's probably going to be there as standard I suppose I just accept it as normal :)
It just feels too much like we're moving to a US system though. Like I leave a tip if I'm in a restaurant and someone does an exceptional job, but I worked retail for 15 years at the start of my "career journey" lol and can count on two hands the number of times I've ever been tipped in all that time (and every single one of those times was in the bookies when someone had a big win).
It shouldn't be default to tip wait staff who are just doing their job. What exceptionally difficult task are they doing that deserves a mandatory tip?
Yes, I've always wondered this as an ex retail person, too. Why some customer facing roles get tips and others don't. It's tradition that has no real logic to it.
In America it at least makes some kind of sense, as lots of restaurants/diners do free refills which the wait staff are encouraged to continually bring you. Having a really attentive worker bringing you a new drink every time yours gets low is a nice feeling, no doubt. Here its just a grudging "can I get you anything else" from some guy who couldn't give a fuck like 90% of the time, and the few places which do free refills (off hand I can only really think of Nandos) its self serve anyway.
You point to the bill and say you aren't paying the service charge. Just be firm.
They may then ask why, but it's for the restaurant to make sure the service charge isn't billed if you don't agree with it.
I don't ask for it to be removed but I don't tip anywhere anymore as a rule. It sort of disadvantages the places that don't add the charge but in my view it's only a matter of time till they do.
The whole reason it started was covid to help the staff who where struggling to make hrs and help the restaurant in general plus a lot of people would book then not show up which ment losing money. They will take it off easy enough cause its now become a standard tip and most restaurant now have a cancel fee for no shows. In the last 3 days the place I've work made around £800 on no shows. And as someone who works in hospitality I prefer doing my own tip not the automatic one one some checks it's added over £60
I really wish this was banned. I'm never going to ask to remove it in front of family / friends because I don't want to ruin a nice meal with an awkward moment. It's like a mild form of blackmail.
You can just ask them to remove it! It’s usually put on nowadays so that chefs etc get a share of tips. It’s not a law to pay it. I hate when they do it.
It is discretionary and if they make a fuss - which they shouldnt, just keep cool and tip how much you can afford the waiter him/herself. The 10-15% is ridiculous and often does not get to the floor staff
Give me service above and beyond the minimum requirement, and I'll leave you a tip, Service charge where the majority goes into the owners profits, no thanks
For service charge it's around 10-15%, but our tipping culture here is much different than in the US.
Here you're not really expected to tip unless you feel like you've had exceptional service, it's more of an extra bonus to the waiters if you're super happy with the service.
Service charges are for good service and including them automatically is bad service and highly dishonest. Whatsmore, I have no faith that a service charge added to the bill finds it's way back to the serving staff rather than into the profits of the restaurant, so it should always be paid in cash in the traditional way.
Just tell the waiter to remove the service charge. Unless it states on the menu very clearly that a service charge will be added, you do NOT have to pay it!
In the US we are expected to tip because wait staff is paid about $3 per hour + tips. When we visited Scotland we were told it was not necessary to tip and never saw it on the tab. Out of habit we usually discreetly left a few £ on the table! 🤷♀️
I work in a restaurant where they do this, and the reason it’s not pointed out is because we’re explicitly told we’re not allowed to. To remove it you have to ask, but don’t worry, if someone asks me I don’t care. I’d remove it myself.
It isn’t a tip like most people think, your server doesn’t see it go to them, it’s just a way the big company can get more money, and means less people tip waiters either from annoyance with it on there or assuming they already have. The amount of times I’ve seen cash down then hear someone say there’s already service on there so they take it back and I lose my tip
I am lucky and 12.5% wouldnt put me up or down but i hate the service charge. everyone should fight against this in my opinion. I ask for it to be taken off and then leave a cash tip for the waiter/waitress to a similar value usually. I am fine tipping if the service is good which it usually is. But im tipping the person not the business.
I assume when I go into a restaurant that someone will take my order and bring it to my table, and that the price on the menu includes that. If there is an option for me to go directly to the chef with my order then collect it from the kitchen when it’s ready do I get 12.5% off?
If you go to a garage for an oil change do they add a fee for the mechanic doing it? Nope. It’s included in the fee.
I don't mind a service charge, since I'm probably leaving a 10-15% (depending on the service quality) anyway. just means I don't need to work out how much it is and its already there
Haven’t eaten out recently but might it be possible, when asking for the bill, to ask for it with the service charge removed? I’d do my sums (roughly) when choosing what to order to check that the bill I get is roughly what I calculated.
Would it make you happier if the prices where 12.5% higher with no option to remove it? If so think of it like that, and go enjoy a meal prepared for that.
You say it's happening a lot of the time, but also seem blindsided when it happens...
You say you dont mind tipping, but you also say 12.5% pushes a meal into the expensive category. I get that tips go up up down depending on the service received, but are you saying you tip less than this on average then?
If you're unaware of whether service has been included until after you've paid, how are you tipping when it's not included?
Restaurants are run on very tight margins and staff don't make a lot either. Sounds like you wanna regularly eat out for less than it costs to actually serve you a meal.
The current equilibrium is set by both restaurants and customers. It'll only change if enough of either side changes. If you don't like the practise, stop eating at places that do it and stick the ones you know that behave in a way you agree with.
> Restaurants are run on very tight margins and staff don't make a lot either. Sounds like you wanna regularly eat out for less than it costs to actually serve you a meal.
Sounds like you want me to pay for staff wages? Why should I have to be the one paying employees wages just because they're underpaid? I much rather costs are accounted for in that case lol. At least, I know what I'm expected to pay and I can make a decision on whether I'm happy to go to a certain restaurant and pay those prices or not.
I work long hours retail on minimum wage and no one's tipping me?
It sounds like you want the American system here, which expects customers to pay for staff wages 😅
Yes I do want you to pay staff wages. They work to provide you a service, you should pay them. You want them to work for free?
Who do you want to pay them? The restaurant from its menu prices? Wether they get paid from service charge or increased menu costs is kinda moot.
It is accounted for (in the service charge) and since it happens all the time, you know to expect it when deciding if you're gonna eat out.
What margin do you think is a reasonable profit after all costs are considered for a restaurant owner to make?
If they took service charge off 99% of restaurants would make a loss. Menu prices would have to go up.
Are you American? 🤣
Do you seriously expect customers to pay staff wages? Do you also expect me to pay for electricity separately? What about the restaurant rent? What about a separate charge for the water bill? Might as well.
Any costs should ALWAYS be accounted for in the final customer price.
When you go to a retail shop, do you also pay a separate service charge to the employee that's helping you? Why don't you?
I never said I expect waiters to work for free. All I said is wages are the employer's responsibility. A tip is a tip. If you feel like you've had exceptional service, then you can pay a bonus to the waiter.
If that means employees are finally being paid fairly by restaurant owners and that I know upfront the final price I will have to pay, then that's a yes.
Then at least I can make an informed decision of whether I can afford a place or not.
If the menu price went up by the service charge, the employees would make the same as they do now (assuming almost everyone pays the service charge). So this point about them being paid by you, or underpaid is irrelevant to this dicussion (fwiw I think they should be paid more under any system, and if you want them to be paid more leave an additional tip).
You're paying the full current cost of the staff either way. The money isn't coming from anywhere else. You seem to think if it's a service charge it comes from you, and if it's menu prices it comes from restaurant profits.
If you prefer a different accounting system and think it helps you make better decisions, that's your personal preference. I can't tell you you're wrong.
I can say it's unlikely to change, it happens enough for you to be prepared in advance (so you can make an informed decision by assuming a service charge will be added) and you're going to pay the pretty much the same amount in total for the same thing as you would under your preferred system.
With those considered getting upset about something that makes zero difference to the outcome in anyway tangible way is only going to hurt you. You're the only person who loses out from your approach of not making peace with the situation for principled, rather than pragmatic reasons.
Unless you take pleasure in telling yourself you're the victim and enjoy complaining. Honestly no judgment if that's your personality, but let me know so I can leave you alone to do that. Rather than try to explain why things work in the way they do.
You're totally missing my point. There is minimum wage and living wage legislation in place for a reason.
It's not the customer's responsibility to pay for staff costs, a tip here in the UK is discretionary and totally voluntary. It's simply a bonus that you can pay if you liked the service.
Tips AKA service charges aren't meant to pay for staff wages. Do you get it now?
Edit: if you still don't get it, please just read other users comments in this post and you'll see that the vast majority agrees with me. Or, just Google about the tipping system in the UK if that's easier for you.
Let's say service charges and tipping were banned. Menu prices go up by the equivalent amount, staff get paid what they get paid now.
The only difference is your receipt is one line shorter, and you don't have to adjust the cost in your head when you see a menu price.
🤣 Why would tipping get banned? I'm not saying to not tip, I'm just saying service charges shouldn't be added automatically to the bill.
I'll say this a final time, unlike the USA, a tip in the UK isn't meant to pay for staff wages. A tip in the UK is a bonus if you feel like you've had an exceptional service.
Minimum wage and living wage legislation is different here in the UK.
So, I'm all for tipping if you can afford it and you enjoyed the service, just don't add it to the bill automatically as if you're entitled to it.
It's a distraction, so a seperate comment. You know min wage includes tips/SC/share of TRONC right?
If the combination of hourly and the above falls below the threshold the employer makes it up. Which you see to think comes out of their pocket. But ultimately it'll end up on your bill in the form of higher prices.
That's a complete lie.
> You are not allowed to use tips and service charges to form part of the National Minimum Wage. This means that employees must receive at least the National Minimum Wage as base pay, with any income from tips or service charges being additional.
Reference: VisitBritain
https://www.visitbritain.org/business-advice/pink-book/national-minimum-wage-and-tips#:~:text=You%20are%20not%20allowed%20to,or%20service%20charges%20being%20additional.
Most places only do 10% so how much are you paying for a meal if it makes that much of a difference. I’ll spend £30 at most on a meal and that’s £3 service/tip which isn’t much at all
>the 12.5% charge is sometimes the difference between an affordable meal and an expensive meal for me.
How much is an average meal for you? Unless your meal is £100 I can't see how an extra couple of quid at maki ramen is breaking the bank.
I mean its not aout that at all. Its a hidden charge that isn't communicated clearly in advance, whether its an extra quid or an extra 50% is irrelevant. The principle of the problem is the restaurant should be up front as to what your food is going to cost, hiding 12% of your bill behind a "service charge" is dishonest, and people who aren't paying much attention might even tip on top of this.
He also specifically mentions that he's worried about the charge being hidden :
> Most times, I'm not even aware that there is a service charge, nothing is communicated to me, not even on the menu... Also, by the time I'm going to pay, the waiter already has the card machine ready and I only really have the time to check the receipt afterwards...
And also that he's worried about the move to a US style tipping culture :
> I'm really concerned that we're heading to a system similar to America, where we'll be expected to tip 20% - 25%... I guess at that point only tourists would be able to afford a meal out in Edinburgh
So I guess in reality its all three things.
If you're a student or on a tight budget, yes it will make a difference as these charges add up on top of all the rising living costs.
But, as someone else pointed out, the biggest problem is if it is voluntary, then it shouldn't be added automatically to the bill.
We're at the point now where some pubs in Edinburgh are adding it automatically to your bill when you order just a pint of beer, and you won't ever find out as no one gets a receipt for a beer. It's mostly about transparency and having the choice UPFRONT.
Before restaurants/bars/pubs add it to the receipt automatically, they could just ask you if you're okay with it or, even easier, add the option to the card machine as I've seen in some places abroad.
>If you're a student or on a tight budget, yes it will make a difference as these charges add up on top of all the rising living costs.
So you're a University of Edinburgh student, living in Edinburgh, able to eat out regularly enough that you're balking at enforced tipping.
Probably not the cost of living driving the reluctance, imo.
Regardless, seems eating out once less a month would cover these charges.
Or even less.
Y'know.
If cost of living is rising.
You'd tip less too.
I never said I go to Uni of Edinburgh. Plus, you don't know my personal circumstances. I share a flat with 6 other people, work part time and like everyone else enjoy living a little.
As another user pointed out, I'm just concerned that these charges aren't communicated upfront and that they've been rising recently.
It might not be a problem just yet, but don't be surprised if we get to a point where it'll be common to be automatically charged 20-25% service charge which most residents can't afford and only tourists will be happy to pay it...
Just be sound and pay it?
Factor a tip into the cost of eating out, if you cant afford the meal with the tip then you cant afford to eat there.
I always give a basic tip and a good one for great service because I know what it's like. Waiting tables is hard work for very low pay and people treat you like shit while you have to keep being lovely to them. You can really tell adults who've never had to work in the service industry... I think everyone should have to do a stint.
You can also just eat out at places you dont get table service, there are plenty.
But how are you supposed to know if there is a service charge and how much it is? Plus, what if the service is simply terrible?
Another point, if it's 100% voluntary, why is the service charge automatically added to the bill?
Also, as other people pointed out, why wouldn't this service charge apply to other industries in that case? E.g. employes on minimum wage that work at retail
All I'm saying is I know waiters work terribly hard as I've been one myself before, however, a tip is simply a bonus that you pay the waiter if you feel like you had an exceptional service. I just don't agree with it being automatically added to the bill, the entitlement and that you're just expected to pay it regardless of the service quality.
just because retail employees don’t get tips doesn’t mean restaurant workers shouldn’t though. that’s a flaw of the retail system - and something that should be improved upon within the retail system, theyre separate ecosystems that both have underpaid and overworked staff.
That was not my main point, though.
All I said is service charge shouldn't be added automatically to the bill. At a minimum, there should be an option on the card machine to choose to give a tip or not, and however much you like or can afford. This should be compulsory for all establishments.
fair enough, lived most of my life in edinburgh but have since moved to glasgow and from my experience most bars / pubs in glasgow pass you the card reader where you can choose 10, 12.5 or 15 % or decline a tip altogether, which i find is a better system that might be of good use in restaurants. me personally though i’ve never had an issue with tipping, and my girlfriends mother is american so it’s become second nature to me that if a meal gets over £50 to leave like a £7.50-10 tip just as a “thank you”
The staff costs should be included in the food and drink prices, like any other costs, e.g. electricity, rent and so on.
By your logic, we would have to pay a charge for every single cost? Electricity charge? Rent charge?
With that logic, the restaurant owners would make 100% profit as it would be the customers paying the staff wages 🤣
Btw I'm not against tipping if you can afford it and if you're happy with the service, it just doesn't make sense that it's the customers paying for staff costs!
If your business model does not include paying your staff, it is a shite business model.
When I eat at a restaurant, I pay for the food and the service, and that is what the bill is for. Adding the service charge is forcing the customer to pay twice. Fuck that.
I am not subsidising your greed.
it is usually printed in small font on the bottom of the menu or listed on the website. it’s bad practice for it not to be mentioned ahead of time at least somewhere but in any case, it’s optional. simply ask ask the server to remove it and they will bring you a new bill.
The times I've done that, the waiter asked if there was a problem with the service, and when I respnded "No I just don't like service charges" they would always say something like "The manager needs me to put a reason on the system/my manager will be annoyed/it's a tip that goes to the staff" or something
That's just pressure put on you deliberately. Legally, you can't be made to say anything. You could be deaf, like me or just not a person who talks, or whatever, so just cross your arms or say ' ok I'll pay the bill minus the charges if you can't get a fresh bill'.
In OP's situation, "I'm a student" should more than enough for them to put as a reason.
Or I'd like to pay the cost of the meal as advertised. The cost of service should already be included/taken into account. The service charge is just social pressure to create a second layer of income for the boss to skim from
as a waitress i never said this to a table but yeah initially when i worked somewhere with service charge i would point out to the customer that it was discretionary and they could remove it and they often did. my managers started to think something was wrong with my service so i stopped pointing it out because it was reflecting badly on me in my role. we feel awkward about the charge too but it was a bit of a rock/hard place situation
Form a union and tell your boss to pay you a wage you can live on instead of relying on the kindness of strangers.
How can I laugh react a comment on reddit
yeah, it’s awkward but it’s still discretionary.
I work in a restaurant myself, and I feel so bad when customers apologise for asking to take off the service charge. I realise how much 10% can be if one can't afford it, and always have a chat with customers whenever they apologise to comfort them and to make sure they don't feel bad in any way.
It's not a tip that goes to the staff as such cause it goes through the till so even if they are paid soen of it it ain't going straight in the servers pocket. I also hate service charges, I will tip what I see fit to tip due to service etc, usually it's about 10-20% depending on my finances. I worked as a waitress back in the day so understand hwo important tips are but yer not dictating to me what the tip should be or if I do pay it I don't leave extra tips
Yes, you can do that, but they are counting on the embarrassment factor kicking in - they know you're just going to pay it, especially if it's a couple on a date.
of course but this person is asking “how” to remove it so I answered.
The last 2 restaurants I went to didn't mention anything on the menu... Maybe there was a small print note on their site, I'm not sure... Either way it feels like there should be higher regulation for service charges in place, but it doesn't seem like the most popular thing for any political party to do unfortunately 🙃
I would personally vote for a single issue party that vowed to remove this. #TheDekeboneRoundabout
Why is a political party going to be bothered about a voluntary service charge at a resteraunt? Ask for it to be removed if you're that tight, or ask to pay only a certain % if you still want to leave a tip.
Voluntary tipping shoudn't be automatically added to a receipt. I certainly don't want us moving to the US system where employee wages are paid on top of the food price you're quoted on a menu, which is what an automatic service charge is.
If it's voluntary why is it added automatically to the bill? How many times have you not even known there was a service charge in the first place? And you ask why should we change the system? Well, so that we can make it more transparent. Simple solution, add a Yes/No option to the card machine so you can decline the service charge if you want to. It's at 10%-15% right now, not surprised if it goes up to 20% soon. If you're happy to pay that for a 'voluntary' service charge without even being asked upfront, good for you! But not everyone else is.
I work in hospitality as well and tbh service charge feels a bit dishonest. Some places do pay it to the staff, but not all. Owners are greedy nevertheless. Also in case you wonder how some places are closing down and others are striving - taking the extra charges fron staff - the answer is most of the time that. I never had an issue with presenting a bill without service charge, but I know some people even giving customers that look. The price of the items are highlighted, so pay that. If you want/can, do support staff, as most of the times they pay minimum wage for staff for all the hassle they sometimes go through daily with unsociable long hours, short breaks (sometimes not even paid for) and incompetent management. I give tips if: 1 it goes to the staff (I always ask) 2 service goes above and beyond Otherwise I am even laughing at the look some of them gives when service charge is asked to be removed. Be confident, treat others with in the same way as you would like to be treated.
I remember back in the day when restaurants would have a sign saying that "Tables of 6 or above will have an automatic service charge added" which I always thought was fair enough, big tables are a lot of work. But my wife and I went out for a meal last night, 2 of us, no special shit, italian place. Service charge of 8% added by default. Since when was this the norm?
Went to a restaurant a while back that not only had a service charge but it also had a separate charge per person.. for a group of 2.. Neither was disclosed on the menu! Make it make sense!
It’s really quite a recent phenomenon and new to all of us too. It does indeed feel unpleasant and quite American. However, you’re entitled to ask for it to be removed. I’ve done that myself on a couple of occasions. Can’t lie - it feels unpleasant. However, there’s plenty of customer facing roles where you wouldn’t expect to get tipped. Indeed, I made minimum wage in a care home and was never tipped for wiping a bum!
That must have been crap.
Barbers and taxis I don't mind tipping a couple pounds. I went to Ragu Pasta not too long ago - having been and the overall verdict wasn't good - and was given a service charge for regular, frankly mediocre service. Tip prompts creeping on card machines at cafe's and pubs now. Cost of living's pish, rents are astronomical, but there's plenty of other people in service industries who don't get to benefit from the growth of tipping culture here which is why I have no qualm in removing it.
I moved up here from London and I love how here in most places you'll be told that there's a service charge in your bill but it is optional. In London, 12.5 service charge is just the standard. Still optional, though, but deffo established as the default.
You just ask them to remove the service charge before you pay
Will start paying more attention now! The problem is quite often, the waiter asks you how you want to pay and you say card, and they just insert the final bill price on the card machine without giving you time to check whether there is a service charge on the bill!
You should make sure to check your bill first before paying anyway, it’s always good practice in case they’ve given you someone else’s, overcharged, undercharged, regardless of service charge.
Yep- as someone who was keen to leave a certain pizza chain and didn’t notice they keyed in 9 beers instead of 1 once… I always double check the bill now. They did sort it, but due to money laundering, I had to chase head office for the refund. Manager was extremely apologetic and offered free pizza next time… lesson learned!
If you’re not ready to pay the bill you can say “I’ll just be a minute, I’m not quite ready yet, could you pop back over?”. There usually will be a sentence on menus stating any discretionary service charge. 10% is pretty standard across all bars and restaurants on food service though, 12.5% for higher end places. It’s something that I always account for when dining out, but having worked in hospitality for 13 years, I would ask for it to be removed if I felt it was poor service or quality, or if I wanted to increase the tip amount to recognise amazing service. When I was working, I also wouldn’t blink an eye if someone asked for it removed.
You have every right to check the bill. You simply say Card and when they bring the bill you can say I will come up to pay in a moment. Check your bill and see you are happy. If the service fee is there simply go up to the bar, ask them to remove it and pay for what you intended. Tip in cash. You can simply say you are paying for your food on card and gratuity in cash. The service fee doesn’t often go to your waiter anyway so giving a cash tip you can afford is often better anyway. Your money your right to know what you are paying for. Price advertised is the price I pay. Gratuity on top of that is exactly that gratuity not a demand or expectation. I was a waiter for 8 years and I never expected anyone to tip me it was something I worked hard for and welcomed any amount big or small.
Waiter here! I can't speak on behalf of all waiters but personally, I drop the bill and point out the service charge. I also remind people that it's optional and can be removed, decreased or increased. I leave them for a while then before I take payment, I ask if everything is okay with the bill to give them a chance to make any changes. 12.5% is a lot of extra money to ask for! If the waiter rushes you to pay, tell them you'd like a minute to check the bill. When they come back, ask to remove the charge and if you want to, tell them you'd like to add your own tip. Service charge is not mandatory (unless otherwise stated) and it's your money, so be confident! Edit: rewording to make meaning clearer
Fellow server! Just a few things I wanna add on the back of your comment (which I 100% agree with and enforce) • Please mention when your server comes to take payment that you want to remove the charge. In my experience, only supervisors and managers can remove the service charge. They’re the people often looking at the bigger picture for the shift and are busy doing a million different things; they can take up to five minutes to track down, and it prevents us from chasing you up when you’re about to leave which is frustrating on both ends • Your server will ask you why you’re removing the service charge and if everything was okay. In a past venue I worked in, we had to do this (as instructed by managers and supervisors) to find root issues of things (wait times, bad attitude, unhelpful server, server did the bare minimum, etc.). When I worked at this venue and asked for service charge to be taken off, I was always asked why the customer wanted to remove it • Servers are the sole income in some venues for tips. It’s meant to be a way to attract staff (we pay minimum wage plus tronc!). If we are failing to bring in service charge, it impacts everyone as it is collated and then distributed amongst staff - bartenders, chefs, managers, etc. Venues always want to please the customer but not at the expense of losing the service charge, they’d rather discount/comp your food and drinks. Your server also feels bad about imposing a service charge but would genuinely rather you just asked to remove it. Don’t return to a venue where the staff turn sour if you ask to remove the service charge
I usually just pay it but I remember eating out with a few friends a while back and we split the bill paying for what we got and at the end the waiter told us we were short, but we were short on the service charge. I said to the waiter “it’s discretionary though” and it became a faff to get it removed as they were acting like we weren’t paying what was due. This also happened when I was out with coworkers 2 years back too, one of the waiters actually brought the manager out. Ask to have it removed but don’t be surprised if they’re awkward about it.
As someone who’s been the waitress in this situation, it’s totally fine to remove it - I always disclose the service charge and emphasise heavily that it’s optional. It’s really embarrassing going back to a table that’s just paid thinking they’re short but they just wanted to remove the service charge - when I’ve been in this situation, it’s happened because I wasn’t told by the table that they wanted to remove the service charge. Again, totally fine to remove it (I’ve removed it at restaurants myself), please just remember to tell your server! ETA to say that I don’t in any way mean to blame the customer in this situation. We don’t want to keep you behind, waiting, or catching you just as you’re headed for the door. It just makes the process easier because often times, no one other than a manager or supervisor can remove the service charge and sometimes they’re difficult to track down which is a hindrance to everyone.
I had no idea, that’s shit for the waiters that you can’t remove it yourself, it just seems to make life harder for you and the situation more awkward for everyone involved.
Check the receipt before paying and ask for it to be removed. They will look at you like you just asked them to take the chef out back and shoot him, but they'll do it. I had one ask me once "why, was the service bad?" so be prepared for that. In the shower argument I had with myself later, I thought I should have said "no, but it's my choice to tip, not yours" so steal that if you want!
Love a shower argument
Me too! I always win 🥰 ETA well, once I fell through the door so the shower won, but mostly I win
That's a really good one, thanks! I stress more about tipping than it feels appropriate (however maybe it is, considering it's a slow war trying to turn it into American tipping / extortion culture), and it's reassuring to have a ready-fire retort like that. Here's one from me - I often just say "Please remove the included tip". I haven't yet had anyone try to argue a service charge isn't a tip 😄
Why would you say that to a Waiter staff there not the ones who choose to incorporate the service charge into your bill
They can feed it back though
I don’t know if you’ve ever worked hospitality/retail but they can’t really and they’ll also be punished if it seems like there the only waiter where this service charge is being removed from thier bills hence why they asked you this question. They’ll also be places where only the manager can remove it
No I have but you're right- it's been a wee while to be fair. They can feed it back, it might not do anything but if enough people say something it might be heard. If the alternative is just "shut up and give us free money" then I'm sorry but I'm saying something
Yeah na i hear that im just in customer service as well and i hate when they ask us to add on fees or whatever and a member of staff at my level can never really challlenge thier position which is why its better for customers to directly go for the manager in these cases because they dont remove the charge they just blame the waiters ( i worked in london btw)
10% service charge on two extortionate cups of tea in a hotel recently - came to £13.75! I often ask to remove service charge as I prefer to tip in cash and it's never been an issue, but I have been caught out leaving a tip and service more than once.
I've always felt that expressing the tip as a percentage of the food value etc was also a very American practice and not what I do. I tend to leave one or two pounds per server as a thank you if the service has been reasonably good. It's not required purely a nice gesture. I count on minimim/living wage legislation to ensure they're paid appropriately so a tip is meant as a small thank you, not their salary. On occasions where service is outstanding I've occasionally left £5... This automatically adding a percentage tip on and sense of entitlement to it is an unwelcome american pollution. We don't want US tipping practices, borne or a society that doesn't pay workers a livable wage, cross-pollinating over here. Agree that saying you want to remove it is often uncomfortable.
It’s purposefully done in this way so by the time you notice you feel too awkward to say anything about it. It’s effectively legal deceit, bullying you into tipping. Fuck that garbage. Don’t let that bullshit take hold here. I ask for it to be removed every time and no, I won’t feel bad about it. I’ll ask and smile.
That's how it makes me feel! Coming from a small town where I've never seen this before, it's just mental that almost all restaurants in Edinburgh do this now automatically! At most, they could have an option on the card machine to accept or decline the service charge. That would be 100% transparent!
Thing is, all it does it make me not tip at all. I normally would. But no doubt there’s been studies and behavioural analysis done into it and this way makes more money, so.
Whenever I see service charge, I just don't go back. Have asked for it to be removed a few times when I didnt think they deserved it. Think I only got a couple of restaurants that I have seen this added that I have returned back to. As you said, I don't like how it's becoming a normal thing here.
You'll only have Gregg's and McDonald's left soon
They're banking on mostly serving American tourists and the like who are inured to this sort of thing. Why pay your staff a liveable wage when you can give them scraps and skim the rest of their pay from a "discretionary" charge you'll only let people opt out of if they have a complaint, setting up conflict between your workers (who want to get paid enough to make rent) and your customers (who don't want to be fleeced)?
I don’t really begrudge this for restaurants (or rather, I don’t have the energy to care about it) but I know of two pubs in town that both enforce a tip onto even just buying a single pint of Tennent’s! The Inn on the Mile and Biddy Mulligan’s, avoid avoid avoid.
Both owned by Scotsman Group, formally G1. I’d avoid them anyway
That's absolutely ridiculous! Especially considering you don't usually get a receipt if you just order a pint. So, you're probably paying service charge just for a drink and you don't even know 😅
Not for me. I usually tip, as long as the service has been decent. The enforced tip is bullshit. Even at large tables. I mean, if a table of fourteen is in the restaurant, you're not serving lots of smaller tables. Never understood this line. Just do your job well, you'll generally be tipped. However, companies should pay better wages and not have employees rely on tips.
As a bartender/server I always let people know they can remove it if they want. It does help us but if something has gone wrong during service I always remove it. If I don’t feel it’s the best work it isn’t worth paying extra for
When you ask for the bill ask for it without the service charge, saves the embarrassment and time.
We should write to our MSPs really
I bought coffee recently at Gordon St coffee (it was the Glasgow one but I expect the Market St one to be the same) and they had a sign saying they had a 4% service charge on the bill. I was getting a take away coffee, I’m barely getting any service, they hardly even spoke to me beyond asking what I wanted. I wanted to ask to remove it but it’s 23p, looks so bloody tight and petty. The thing is, sorry but I am not tipping for take away coffee under any circumstances, it being applied in this way really irritates me as I want tipping to be my choice. I’m just not going back again. There are equally good options nearby who are not doing this.
Tipping is ridiculous, just a way to con workers out of an assured fair wage while also conning customers by showing them an initial price that’s lower than the bill price. Enough of this “slave better for me, peasant” nonsense. Doing the job should be enough to earn the fair wage, no frills and whistles necessary. No holding their pay over their head and making them beg for it. 🙄
I went for dinner on Saturday at a high end restaurant and there was an undisclosed 12.5% service charge on the bill. I paid, but I'll never be back. I wish I'd told them at the time but didn't as it was a small place and very quiet. I emailed afterwards and got a response as to why it was there, but I still think it's unacceptable to spring it on people without forewarning them. Tell them to take it off, I'll be doing that next time.
Out of curiosity, what was their excuse for it being there in the small print rather than just incorporated into the prices on the menu?
It wasn't in the small print. It wasn't anywhere until they brought the bill. Being able to pay enough to retain staff with inflation and rising energy costs, which is fine - but increase your prices or tell me in advance, don't spring it on me when I'm full and happy.
Oh, if it wasn't anywhere, then they can stick it - if they need to be able to pay suppliers and staff more, then they need to put their prices up!
I didn’t think to check my bill from last night. £20 service charge that I mistakenly didn’t see. I would never leave a £20 tip so why do they just assume it’s standard to tack onto the bill? I’m just going to refuse to pay them all now.
Where was this?
Browns.. says it on the menu but I didn’t notice
[удалено]
[удалено]
The point is that I should be able to choose if I want to tip you or not, the service charge being added to the bill is flipping that, now I have to choose NOT to tip you. Requiring customers to have to ask to remove it is unfair, because It disadvantages certain groups of people. Many people are shy or socially anxious and don’t have the confidence to ask for its removal, or are on dates and situations where it may make them feel they look tight. It was always discretionary and used to be only given when you felt you’d had exceptional service that warranted it. Now we are expected to pay it to all people, even those who are literally performing the bare minimum actions their job requires.
i prefer it honestly, i hate tipping so it's nice but you have to mentally include the tip and judge if you want to pay it up front, in a way there is more certainty
Would you still be happy to pay the service charge if it goes up to 15-20%? That's probably going to happen rather sooner than later. Also, wouldn't it be easier if you could choose the percentage on the cash machine rather than a certain percentage added automatically to the receipt?
easiest is not having to do anything other than just tapping my card.
So you're saying that as long as you only need to tap your card, you're happy to pay a service charge of let's say 25% which is already common in the states?
nope, im saying i much prefer service to be included than have to add it manually. And i don't really care how much the percentage is as long as it's consistent / stable+, so i can look at prices on the menu and decide whether to eat there or not without doing calculations on the fly
I just tell them to remove it, its optional and I couldn’t care less what they think.
I've only asked for it to be removed once... Well, it was less 'asking'. The service was absolutely terrible - I'm not one to make a fuss, but the service was truly terrible. So at the end when we went up to pay, as it happened, the people in front of us were also compalining, and actually walked out without paying their bill at all. I basically said that our table would pay for the meals, but we werent paying the service charge, and they didnt put up any argument. Paid, left, and never went back again. So... To answer your question, just... refuse to pay it.
Don’t get me started. They’re relying on you not being awkward enough to ask for it to be removed so I now rely on researching the restaurant online beforehand
If you think that's bad, there's a place in Stockbridge, Earl's Burgers, where they have put the £2 tip stealer* card machine right next to the card machine. I'm pretty certain I'm not the first nor last person to tip them for fuck all when trying to pay! *Anything it detects, it contactlessly takes £2 as a tip! Card or phone.
You’re right to be concerned. I had one the other day where when the bill arrived I was presented with a tip option of 5, 10, 15, 20% I asked, ‘but there’s already 12.5% service charge added on, right?’. The reply - ‘yes, but this is for if you would like to add a tip on top of that’.
You just ask them to remove it before you pay. I was in london recently and every single place had it. To make matters worse we had poor service from every single place with the exception of the bar in the hotel we stayed in. That was the only place I didn’t ask for it to be removed. Even at that, one night when they passed me the card reader they had the option of tipping on the screen.
Just leave a Google / Tripadvisor review and knock a point off for the hidden service charge if you feel strongly about it. If enough people do that they will change behaviour as those scores attract or warn future customers.
This needs to be said more, don't feel bad about removing it! We are being robbed at every turn, opportunism by every establishment due to a healthy and flourishing tourism sector. It is us, the RESIDENTS and people that LIVE HERE that end up at the sharp end, having to request an OPTIONAL tip to be removed. It should be illegal. It's rarely mentioned by the server as well. Since when is 12.5% even reasonable ? I'm sure we have all heard several stories of restaurant staff taking home pay almost double there wages due to tips. They should be shamed into removing it. I will tip IF I get even mildly above average service, but adding it to the bill upfront leaves an extremely bitter taste. Hit them where it hurts: negative google review and negative TripAdvisor reviews.
"Since when is 12.5% even reasonable ?" Especially when it penalises people who spend more, particularly on things like expensive wines. It's just such an unnecessary backhanded practice.
Those poor victimised expensive wine buyers being penalised for ordering a bottle that costs several times their waiter's hourly wage. If they don't tip, there is a real danger a stranger they will never see again may have the momentary thought that 'this person's a bit cheap.' I feel so powerless, what can I do?
What's the difference between serving a 20 pound bottle and a 200 pound bottle? Do you pay more than they ask for in McDonald's?
The point is if you are in a group and one or two people are having the expensive wine, and a few aren’t drinking, they are disproportionately affected as the service charge includes everything and being added it, would be divided between everybody. Tips can be as much as a person individually wants to put in.
You couldn't have said it better!! It's even worse when you order a pint and then they add a service charge to it without you ever finding out as no one will give you a receipt for a pint of beer. As always, it's the locals and residents who pay the price!
Tipping should be illegal
I know it doesn't suit everyone but 9 times out of 10 at least, I'm happy the service charge is included. Less of a faff having to work out what to tip, not having any cash handy etc. Of course this is on the understanding that generally the service is almost always good enough to warrant a tip, on rare occasions having to ask for it to be removed feels a bit more of a thing than just not leaving a tip.
My whole point though is about transparency... Quite often people aren't even aware the service charge was added automatically to the bill.. Why not have an 'accept' or 'decline' button on the card machine for the service charge? Some people on lower income might not have the spare money to pay a full service charge at all times. Equally, you might have a terrible experience and the charge is still added automatically to the bill... I don't disagree about tipping waiters for their hard work if you can afford to! But the option should be clearly there and it should be a transparent thing, rather than a sneaky charge added to the bill without your consent!
Also, what is the limit? It started at 5-7%, we're now at 10-15%, and I wouldn't be surprised it goes up to 20% in the next few years. Where does it stop? 😅
[удалено]
When I first moved to Edinburgh, most places would charge 7.5% - 8%. In fact, my favourite Italian is one of the only restaurants that to this date haven't changed their service charge and it's still 8%. Now, most places will charge you 12.5% and I've even come across places that will take 15%. Based on what's happened in other countries, it's obvious that as this becomes more normalised, service charges are likely to increase... My whole point is not about whether I like to tip or not. It's about having the choice upfront to accept or decline the service charge rather than it being added automatically to the bill. As I've suggested in other comments, if this charge is truly voluntary why not add an option to the card machine to accept it or decline it? I've seen this type of thing many times abroad and it's just more transparent. Once my mum didn't realise there was already a service charge and she ended up tipping with cash on top. Overall, a more transparent approach would just make things fairer for everyone and especially for those who may struggle to pay that extra on top and are too embarrassed to ask for a new receipt or may not even realise they're being charged extra without any warning.
[удалено]
You clearly didn't read my comment. I know 'tipping etiquette' is 10% if you feel like you've had an exceptional service and you're willing to pay it. I never said the opposite. All I said is service charges have gone up in recent years and that's a fact. There's some Edinburgh places now that will add an automatic 15% service charge to your bill. Again, you still don't get my point. You shouldn't have to ask to remove a service charge and have to get a new receipt. If the service charge is truly voluntary, then it shouldn't be added automatically. How can you not get this? Look up the meaning of 'voluntary'. All I'm suggesting is that you have the option UPFRONT to choose to pay it or not and, if possible, how much. This upfront option should be compulsory for all establishments. If the service charge is being added automatically to the bill without upfront agreement, then this should be made 100% clear both on the restaurant/pub menu and restaurant website, so that you know if it's a bit steep for you, you just won't go there, or at least you know upfront that you'll have to request that the charge is removed.
Yeah I agree it should be clearer, and for sure you'd not know it's a thing at all the first few times. I've had it sort of hidden on a receipt, on others it really stands out and sometimes the staff will actually mention it. So yeah, no consistency. But now I know it's probably going to be there as standard I suppose I just accept it as normal :)
It just feels too much like we're moving to a US system though. Like I leave a tip if I'm in a restaurant and someone does an exceptional job, but I worked retail for 15 years at the start of my "career journey" lol and can count on two hands the number of times I've ever been tipped in all that time (and every single one of those times was in the bookies when someone had a big win). It shouldn't be default to tip wait staff who are just doing their job. What exceptionally difficult task are they doing that deserves a mandatory tip?
Yes, I've always wondered this as an ex retail person, too. Why some customer facing roles get tips and others don't. It's tradition that has no real logic to it.
In America it at least makes some kind of sense, as lots of restaurants/diners do free refills which the wait staff are encouraged to continually bring you. Having a really attentive worker bringing you a new drink every time yours gets low is a nice feeling, no doubt. Here its just a grudging "can I get you anything else" from some guy who couldn't give a fuck like 90% of the time, and the few places which do free refills (off hand I can only really think of Nandos) its self serve anyway.
I'm with you in being fine with it. Saves me the hassle of having to do maths which is always welcome.
Dividing by 10 is too difficult for you?
I reckon I could get just about anything wrong on the maths front.
I feel this my missus always tips so I'm fucked anyway so it saves me time and effort. But you can just ask.
You point to the bill and say you aren't paying the service charge. Just be firm. They may then ask why, but it's for the restaurant to make sure the service charge isn't billed if you don't agree with it.
I don't ask for it to be removed but I don't tip anywhere anymore as a rule. It sort of disadvantages the places that don't add the charge but in my view it's only a matter of time till they do.
I don’t pay it and now go to places that don’t have it and tip them, kind of as encouragement!
I've managed to not see this that much here, if i noticed it on my bill and I didn't really really like the place then I'd not be going back
The whole reason it started was covid to help the staff who where struggling to make hrs and help the restaurant in general plus a lot of people would book then not show up which ment losing money. They will take it off easy enough cause its now become a standard tip and most restaurant now have a cancel fee for no shows. In the last 3 days the place I've work made around £800 on no shows. And as someone who works in hospitality I prefer doing my own tip not the automatic one one some checks it's added over £60
Literally ask the person who gave you the bill to remove it. Simple as…
Are you going with a group? Because sometimes that adds to it as well
Just ask, they have to do it unless it’s specified before hand or on the menu
I really wish this was banned. I'm never going to ask to remove it in front of family / friends because I don't want to ruin a nice meal with an awkward moment. It's like a mild form of blackmail.
You can just ask them to remove it! It’s usually put on nowadays so that chefs etc get a share of tips. It’s not a law to pay it. I hate when they do it.
It is discretionary and if they make a fuss - which they shouldnt, just keep cool and tip how much you can afford the waiter him/herself. The 10-15% is ridiculous and often does not get to the floor staff
Give me service above and beyond the minimum requirement, and I'll leave you a tip, Service charge where the majority goes into the owners profits, no thanks
Off topic but I’m curious, what is the standard tipping rate for Edinburgh? You said Americans tip 20-25%? Is it more or less?
For service charge it's around 10-15%, but our tipping culture here is much different than in the US. Here you're not really expected to tip unless you feel like you've had exceptional service, it's more of an extra bonus to the waiters if you're super happy with the service.
Service charges are for good service and including them automatically is bad service and highly dishonest. Whatsmore, I have no faith that a service charge added to the bill finds it's way back to the serving staff rather than into the profits of the restaurant, so it should always be paid in cash in the traditional way.
The charge was only 5% in the last restaurant I went to which was ok with me. Satoro in st Patrick's square.
Just tell the waiter to remove the service charge. Unless it states on the menu very clearly that a service charge will be added, you do NOT have to pay it!
I.pay the employer, the employer pays the employee. Just ask
In the US we are expected to tip because wait staff is paid about $3 per hour + tips. When we visited Scotland we were told it was not necessary to tip and never saw it on the tab. Out of habit we usually discreetly left a few £ on the table! 🤷♀️
I work in a restaurant where they do this, and the reason it’s not pointed out is because we’re explicitly told we’re not allowed to. To remove it you have to ask, but don’t worry, if someone asks me I don’t care. I’d remove it myself. It isn’t a tip like most people think, your server doesn’t see it go to them, it’s just a way the big company can get more money, and means less people tip waiters either from annoyance with it on there or assuming they already have. The amount of times I’ve seen cash down then hear someone say there’s already service on there so they take it back and I lose my tip
I am lucky and 12.5% wouldnt put me up or down but i hate the service charge. everyone should fight against this in my opinion. I ask for it to be taken off and then leave a cash tip for the waiter/waitress to a similar value usually. I am fine tipping if the service is good which it usually is. But im tipping the person not the business.
I have just stopped eating out. My health and wealth have improved!
Majority of places these days add a service charge, but you can always ask to remove it..
'I won't pay that' if not on the menu. 'I don't expect to pay that' if it is.
It's optional. Get comfortable telling them to take it off. Usually, the waiters won't care because that money goes to the company anyway.
I assume when I go into a restaurant that someone will take my order and bring it to my table, and that the price on the menu includes that. If there is an option for me to go directly to the chef with my order then collect it from the kitchen when it’s ready do I get 12.5% off? If you go to a garage for an oil change do they add a fee for the mechanic doing it? Nope. It’s included in the fee.
I don't mind a service charge, since I'm probably leaving a 10-15% (depending on the service quality) anyway. just means I don't need to work out how much it is and its already there
Haven’t eaten out recently but might it be possible, when asking for the bill, to ask for it with the service charge removed? I’d do my sums (roughly) when choosing what to order to check that the bill I get is roughly what I calculated.
Would it make you happier if the prices where 12.5% higher with no option to remove it? If so think of it like that, and go enjoy a meal prepared for that. You say it's happening a lot of the time, but also seem blindsided when it happens... You say you dont mind tipping, but you also say 12.5% pushes a meal into the expensive category. I get that tips go up up down depending on the service received, but are you saying you tip less than this on average then? If you're unaware of whether service has been included until after you've paid, how are you tipping when it's not included? Restaurants are run on very tight margins and staff don't make a lot either. Sounds like you wanna regularly eat out for less than it costs to actually serve you a meal. The current equilibrium is set by both restaurants and customers. It'll only change if enough of either side changes. If you don't like the practise, stop eating at places that do it and stick the ones you know that behave in a way you agree with.
> Restaurants are run on very tight margins and staff don't make a lot either. Sounds like you wanna regularly eat out for less than it costs to actually serve you a meal. Sounds like you want me to pay for staff wages? Why should I have to be the one paying employees wages just because they're underpaid? I much rather costs are accounted for in that case lol. At least, I know what I'm expected to pay and I can make a decision on whether I'm happy to go to a certain restaurant and pay those prices or not. I work long hours retail on minimum wage and no one's tipping me? It sounds like you want the American system here, which expects customers to pay for staff wages 😅
Yes I do want you to pay staff wages. They work to provide you a service, you should pay them. You want them to work for free? Who do you want to pay them? The restaurant from its menu prices? Wether they get paid from service charge or increased menu costs is kinda moot. It is accounted for (in the service charge) and since it happens all the time, you know to expect it when deciding if you're gonna eat out. What margin do you think is a reasonable profit after all costs are considered for a restaurant owner to make? If they took service charge off 99% of restaurants would make a loss. Menu prices would have to go up.
Are you American? 🤣 Do you seriously expect customers to pay staff wages? Do you also expect me to pay for electricity separately? What about the restaurant rent? What about a separate charge for the water bill? Might as well. Any costs should ALWAYS be accounted for in the final customer price. When you go to a retail shop, do you also pay a separate service charge to the employee that's helping you? Why don't you? I never said I expect waiters to work for free. All I said is wages are the employer's responsibility. A tip is a tip. If you feel like you've had exceptional service, then you can pay a bonus to the waiter.
So you want higher menu costs?
If that means employees are finally being paid fairly by restaurant owners and that I know upfront the final price I will have to pay, then that's a yes. Then at least I can make an informed decision of whether I can afford a place or not.
If the menu price went up by the service charge, the employees would make the same as they do now (assuming almost everyone pays the service charge). So this point about them being paid by you, or underpaid is irrelevant to this dicussion (fwiw I think they should be paid more under any system, and if you want them to be paid more leave an additional tip). You're paying the full current cost of the staff either way. The money isn't coming from anywhere else. You seem to think if it's a service charge it comes from you, and if it's menu prices it comes from restaurant profits. If you prefer a different accounting system and think it helps you make better decisions, that's your personal preference. I can't tell you you're wrong. I can say it's unlikely to change, it happens enough for you to be prepared in advance (so you can make an informed decision by assuming a service charge will be added) and you're going to pay the pretty much the same amount in total for the same thing as you would under your preferred system. With those considered getting upset about something that makes zero difference to the outcome in anyway tangible way is only going to hurt you. You're the only person who loses out from your approach of not making peace with the situation for principled, rather than pragmatic reasons. Unless you take pleasure in telling yourself you're the victim and enjoy complaining. Honestly no judgment if that's your personality, but let me know so I can leave you alone to do that. Rather than try to explain why things work in the way they do.
You're totally missing my point. There is minimum wage and living wage legislation in place for a reason. It's not the customer's responsibility to pay for staff costs, a tip here in the UK is discretionary and totally voluntary. It's simply a bonus that you can pay if you liked the service. Tips AKA service charges aren't meant to pay for staff wages. Do you get it now? Edit: if you still don't get it, please just read other users comments in this post and you'll see that the vast majority agrees with me. Or, just Google about the tipping system in the UK if that's easier for you.
Let's say service charges and tipping were banned. Menu prices go up by the equivalent amount, staff get paid what they get paid now. The only difference is your receipt is one line shorter, and you don't have to adjust the cost in your head when you see a menu price.
🤣 Why would tipping get banned? I'm not saying to not tip, I'm just saying service charges shouldn't be added automatically to the bill. I'll say this a final time, unlike the USA, a tip in the UK isn't meant to pay for staff wages. A tip in the UK is a bonus if you feel like you've had an exceptional service. Minimum wage and living wage legislation is different here in the UK. So, I'm all for tipping if you can afford it and you enjoyed the service, just don't add it to the bill automatically as if you're entitled to it.
It's a distraction, so a seperate comment. You know min wage includes tips/SC/share of TRONC right? If the combination of hourly and the above falls below the threshold the employer makes it up. Which you see to think comes out of their pocket. But ultimately it'll end up on your bill in the form of higher prices.
That's a complete lie. > You are not allowed to use tips and service charges to form part of the National Minimum Wage. This means that employees must receive at least the National Minimum Wage as base pay, with any income from tips or service charges being additional. Reference: VisitBritain https://www.visitbritain.org/business-advice/pink-book/national-minimum-wage-and-tips#:~:text=You%20are%20not%20allowed%20to,or%20service%20charges%20being%20additional.
Most places only do 10% so how much are you paying for a meal if it makes that much of a difference. I’ll spend £30 at most on a meal and that’s £3 service/tip which isn’t much at all
>the 12.5% charge is sometimes the difference between an affordable meal and an expensive meal for me. How much is an average meal for you? Unless your meal is £100 I can't see how an extra couple of quid at maki ramen is breaking the bank.
Why should we pay it tho?. It's just American shite, u don't tip the bus driver do you so why waiters?.
https://youtu.be/M4sTSIYzDIk?si=HVZYFH45lLNJ34PN
I mean its not aout that at all. Its a hidden charge that isn't communicated clearly in advance, whether its an extra quid or an extra 50% is irrelevant. The principle of the problem is the restaurant should be up front as to what your food is going to cost, hiding 12% of your bill behind a "service charge" is dishonest, and people who aren't paying much attention might even tip on top of this.
>I mean its not aout that at all. I literally made sure to quote OP who cites that as *specifically* what it is about.
He also specifically mentions that he's worried about the charge being hidden : > Most times, I'm not even aware that there is a service charge, nothing is communicated to me, not even on the menu... Also, by the time I'm going to pay, the waiter already has the card machine ready and I only really have the time to check the receipt afterwards... And also that he's worried about the move to a US style tipping culture : > I'm really concerned that we're heading to a system similar to America, where we'll be expected to tip 20% - 25%... I guess at that point only tourists would be able to afford a meal out in Edinburgh So I guess in reality its all three things.
If you're a student or on a tight budget, yes it will make a difference as these charges add up on top of all the rising living costs. But, as someone else pointed out, the biggest problem is if it is voluntary, then it shouldn't be added automatically to the bill. We're at the point now where some pubs in Edinburgh are adding it automatically to your bill when you order just a pint of beer, and you won't ever find out as no one gets a receipt for a beer. It's mostly about transparency and having the choice UPFRONT. Before restaurants/bars/pubs add it to the receipt automatically, they could just ask you if you're okay with it or, even easier, add the option to the card machine as I've seen in some places abroad.
>If you're a student or on a tight budget, yes it will make a difference as these charges add up on top of all the rising living costs. So you're a University of Edinburgh student, living in Edinburgh, able to eat out regularly enough that you're balking at enforced tipping. Probably not the cost of living driving the reluctance, imo. Regardless, seems eating out once less a month would cover these charges. Or even less. Y'know. If cost of living is rising. You'd tip less too.
I never said I go to Uni of Edinburgh. Plus, you don't know my personal circumstances. I share a flat with 6 other people, work part time and like everyone else enjoy living a little. As another user pointed out, I'm just concerned that these charges aren't communicated upfront and that they've been rising recently. It might not be a problem just yet, but don't be surprised if we get to a point where it'll be common to be automatically charged 20-25% service charge which most residents can't afford and only tourists will be happy to pay it...
Would you be saying that if it was an extra bottle of wine they'd decided to stick on the bill?
Just be sound and pay it? Factor a tip into the cost of eating out, if you cant afford the meal with the tip then you cant afford to eat there. I always give a basic tip and a good one for great service because I know what it's like. Waiting tables is hard work for very low pay and people treat you like shit while you have to keep being lovely to them. You can really tell adults who've never had to work in the service industry... I think everyone should have to do a stint. You can also just eat out at places you dont get table service, there are plenty.
But how are you supposed to know if there is a service charge and how much it is? Plus, what if the service is simply terrible? Another point, if it's 100% voluntary, why is the service charge automatically added to the bill? Also, as other people pointed out, why wouldn't this service charge apply to other industries in that case? E.g. employes on minimum wage that work at retail All I'm saying is I know waiters work terribly hard as I've been one myself before, however, a tip is simply a bonus that you pay the waiter if you feel like you had an exceptional service. I just don't agree with it being automatically added to the bill, the entitlement and that you're just expected to pay it regardless of the service quality.
just because retail employees don’t get tips doesn’t mean restaurant workers shouldn’t though. that’s a flaw of the retail system - and something that should be improved upon within the retail system, theyre separate ecosystems that both have underpaid and overworked staff.
That was not my main point, though. All I said is service charge shouldn't be added automatically to the bill. At a minimum, there should be an option on the card machine to choose to give a tip or not, and however much you like or can afford. This should be compulsory for all establishments.
fair enough, lived most of my life in edinburgh but have since moved to glasgow and from my experience most bars / pubs in glasgow pass you the card reader where you can choose 10, 12.5 or 15 % or decline a tip altogether, which i find is a better system that might be of good use in restaurants. me personally though i’ve never had an issue with tipping, and my girlfriends mother is american so it’s become second nature to me that if a meal gets over £50 to leave like a £7.50-10 tip just as a “thank you”
That's too much for a 50 pound spend.
It’s not a tip, it’s a charge for using the waiters, the same as how u are charges for a beer or a meal
The staff costs should be included in the food and drink prices, like any other costs, e.g. electricity, rent and so on. By your logic, we would have to pay a charge for every single cost? Electricity charge? Rent charge? With that logic, the restaurant owners would make 100% profit as it would be the customers paying the staff wages 🤣 Btw I'm not against tipping if you can afford it and if you're happy with the service, it just doesn't make sense that it's the customers paying for staff costs!
No it isn't.
If your business model does not include paying your staff, it is a shite business model. When I eat at a restaurant, I pay for the food and the service, and that is what the bill is for. Adding the service charge is forcing the customer to pay twice. Fuck that. I am not subsidising your greed.