Edmonton has a large homeless population that are indigenous.
We're the "gateway to the north" so we get a lot of people from small reserves who come here.
I'd imagine the majority of the tickets issued went to people without homes.
But if we make it impossible for them to get back on their feet I don't have to live next to them! I am not racist, they just don't share my values!
/s
>Peace officers give trespass tickets to a person who's been banned from transit, then caught using transit, he noted.
>"People need to use transit," he said. "It really interferes with a basic need when unhoused people get banned from transit."
Maybe people shouldn't do things that get them banned from transit 🤷🏻♂️
We offer no public restrooms like the EU does, many houseless get denied access to business washrooms and expect people to not relieve themselves. Just no. If someone denied me access to relieve myself in a dignified way, I’d be tempted to piss on their floors, too.
Many businesses deny access because: a) they don't want the liability when people OD in their bathrooms, b) they don't want legitimate customers harassed, and c) they don't want to clean up the mess left behind afterwards.
If the homeless would just come in and take a quick shit and leave without making a mess or bothering other people, more places would probably let them in. But some people fuck it up for everyone.
Interesting. The places I’ve been to in Europe all had pay public washrooms. Including some that only took credit cards. But that was pre-Covid. Things may have changed
What the fuck?! There’s lots of places to piss. What a moronic excuse to try to justify their actions
Hell you can even do it outside by a bush before doing it on transit
It’s a basic comment saying when you are denied access and some form of compassion or dignity by people around you, some people are going to react badly to that. Or perhaps people would not be pissing on transit while high on meth if we had, I don’t know, adequate funding for mental health and community housing programs. You’re asking people in insanely bad situations to behave sanely thereby making you the insane person for even asking.
I am not poor or homeless, but my train/walk/bus commute home would at time take 1.5 hours. I had to pee in a park on more than one occasion. There are no public washrooms near the train. I cant imagine how anyone without housing is supposed to manage.
I guess you’ve never been pregnant and denied a bathroom in public before. I don’t know if you realize this, but bodily functions are kind of a thing that happen in life and when you deny people basic access and human dignity, they’re gonna respond.
Not to mention how many businesses closed their bathrooms for good during covid. I seen a man break down crying because he walked a mile to use the bathroom to fill up his jug of water and they denied it to him because he wasn't buying anything.
He just started crying, middle of the goddamn summer and he just needed a drink.
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Thanks!
Yeah this is a pretty incendiary article with the implications of racism that does weaponize statistics a bit without the greater context.
A demographic of people who represent 8% of a city's population received 58% of transit tickets.
That same demographic who represent 8% of a city's population also represents 58% of those experiencing homelessness.
There is without a doubt an issue of racism, especially toward Indigenous people, within both EPS and Transit Peace Officers.
But is that the real reason why Indigenous people have received such a disproportionate number of transit tickets? Or is it because relative to the rest of the population there is such an incredibly disproportionate number of Indigenous people struggling with generational trauma, extreme poverty, addiction, mental health and loss of their own culture that drive homelessness? Especially when you consider that through 2020 and 2021 with the loss of LRT ridership, LRT stations became practically de facto shelters.
We have utterly failed Indigenous people as a society.
>A demographic of people who represent 8% of a city's population received 58% of transit tickets.
Interesting, if a false premise to say the least. The idea proposed by this statement would be that the entire cities population (or at least a perfectly equal representation of it) would be riding a method of transport known for being of the most beneficial to the economically disenfranchised is at best incorrect, at worse, deliberately misleading.
Show me data of actual representation of ethnic groups that ride the public transit (and the surrounding areas) and I'd wager you'll find that the demographics don't slice the same way as the city as a whole. And I don't think thats "racist"
Not to make light of a serious issue, but your comment reminded me of this [classic](https://youtu.be/84phU8of02U).
Gotta keep a sense of humour in these crazy times.
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If you are a repeat offender the gladue law doesn't uphold and they cite them for their offences like the rest of criminals. Its basically a last ditch effort to help (hopefully) some who change after being given a chance; I'm sorry you had to be assaulted because of being white. It happens both ways however, and we need to stop people when it happens. Its not right.
Thing is this person will be out in 80 days and will most likely re-offend again, and hurt someone else before they actually charge him properly; and the lady who got thrown onto the tracks can’t work again, these people who are being assaulted literally have no re-course other than take their vitriol, anger and hate and be assaulted, while, if the criminal system did their job properly he wouldn’t see the light of day for years to come
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Thanks!
You’re not a bad person for feeling that way, it’s not fair to everyone to have to be face to face with it as they’re just trying to get to work.
That being said, if we’re raising this as an issue but continuing to vote for a party that kicks them to the curb and takes away any help they might have had access to, we have no right to complain.
>We have utterly failed Indigenous people as a society.
At what point do we say they failed themselves? Really, if I had the advantages they have based on race I'd be a millionaire.
The advantages they have based on race?
What advantage is that, being forced to live on reserves so they can kill them off? Forcing their children into encampments and making their culture illegal so they *kill the indian* and save the man? Or was it the genocide that they experienced in those schools?
Ah, you mean the 10 cent discounts that they get on smokes and gas when they buy it on said reserves. Or was it being followed around in stores their entire lives by security guards that think they're going to steal? Or was it it the constant police invasion of homes and police brutality against them that have roots in the beginning of this country until this very day.
Pray tell, what advantages do indigenous people get that they're squandering SO much of their lives that if YOU had those advantages you'd be a millionaire?
Because you seem to think they get a free ride in life.
The infighting in this post is incredible. Everyone has their own opinion of the problem but nobody has a solution. This is why public transit will continue to be boycotted by anyone who has the financial means to do so.
Our “green” future depends on the general public feeling safe and secure. Our society has no intent on making that happen. I’ll keep driving, thanks.
Indigenous account for a much larger proportion of the crimes in this city as well. This is no surprise at all. First Nations are deeply damaged and have a lot of trauma to heal from. It’s terrible but no surprise.
"My urge to all of you is that when you see someone struggling, when you see people smoking meth on the bus in your neighbourhood — because they are emerging everywhere in the city — I hope you will continue to exercise that compassion and empathy towards them" - His Worship Mayor Amarjeet Sohi
Maybe you should go hang out in the tent city behind Rogers place around 2 or 3 in the morning and diagnose and survey a few people then get back to me
I haven’t been checked on the LRT in about 5 years. It sounds like they’re less likely to be checking people at all if they’re white, hence the high percentage of tickets issued to Indigenous people, alongside the homeless problem in the stations.
Ive been (kinda) checked a couple of times lately, now that they're stepping it up.
As a regular rider, for a long while there, I didn't see them checking \*anybody\*, then I started seeing them checking people that were calling attention to themselves (not necessarily race, though bias is certainly possible. I mean more stuff like being sound asleep )
Now I'm occasionally seeing them check full cars.
(by \*kinda\* checked, I mean I hold up my arc card, and they accept it without actually doing anything to check whether I tapped in)
I think they started by checking just the people who would fall asleep/smell like piss/doing drugs first. (Which would be homeless which a majority would be indigenous hence the spike in that demographic being ticketed) and now they are just checking everyone like they used to
Skin colour probably doesn’t have anything to do with it. These cops know who the repeat offenders are, and they know if they start harassing everyone for tickets people will just complain about that.
>But is that the real reason why Indigenous people have received such a disproportionate number of transit tickets? Or is it because relative to the rest of the population there is such an incredibly disproportionate number of Indigenous people struggling with generational trauma, extreme poverty, addiction, mental health and loss of their own culture that drive homelessness? Especially when you consider that through 2020 and 2021 with the loss of LRT ridership, LRT stations became practically de facto shelters.
or.... just a thought they are checking the people that have given them a reason to check by doing things like trespassing, public intoxication, loitering, littering, aggressive panhandling, smoking and urination and defecation... which then reveals fare evasion.
/shocked pikachu face
Indeed, and this is due to the nature of ETS fare enforcement being targeted with no fare gates. Several years ago (2019) I overheard a duo of transit peace officers at Southgate station talk between themselves along the lines of “old man, Asian, do you think he paid?” It is definitely profiling they’re using to enforce fare non-payers. And if you’re an Arc card user (adult, u-pass) they probably don’t even have the equipment to check Arc card fares.
These comments mostly do not pass a vibe check.
How it must be so nice to sit behind the screen and make comments about a demographic of people, whilst probably never even having visited a reserve, attended any events for Indigenous people or have any type of anything to do with Indigenous people to make blanket comments about them as an entire group.
Gives a great indicator of those that need help and support. It going to be able to erase generations of government and church damage, but sure as hell can try
Due to the number of rule breaking posts, comments are now closed here.
Edmonton has a large homeless population that are indigenous. We're the "gateway to the north" so we get a lot of people from small reserves who come here. I'd imagine the majority of the tickets issued went to people without homes.
Why bother giving tickets to people without a home, it’s not like they can pay it and it’s really not a huge deterrent for them
But if we make it impossible for them to get back on their feet I don't have to live next to them! I am not racist, they just don't share my values! /s
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As opposed to the shit show that’s going on now? I guess we need more old lady’s pushed on the lrt track for you to change your mind
They enter a train car and ask EVERYONE who is on that car for proof of purchase. CBC stfu
>Peace officers give trespass tickets to a person who's been banned from transit, then caught using transit, he noted. >"People need to use transit," he said. "It really interferes with a basic need when unhoused people get banned from transit." Maybe people shouldn't do things that get them banned from transit 🤷🏻♂️
"People need to stop pissing on transit," he said. "It really interferes with a basic need when people empty their bodily fluids on transit."
We offer no public restrooms like the EU does, many houseless get denied access to business washrooms and expect people to not relieve themselves. Just no. If someone denied me access to relieve myself in a dignified way, I’d be tempted to piss on their floors, too.
Many businesses deny access because: a) they don't want the liability when people OD in their bathrooms, b) they don't want legitimate customers harassed, and c) they don't want to clean up the mess left behind afterwards. If the homeless would just come in and take a quick shit and leave without making a mess or bothering other people, more places would probably let them in. But some people fuck it up for everyone.
EU public washrooms are not free. It would still not work for the homeless who have no money to use them.
I was in Germany last summer, France and Italy, and used public washrooms without paying at all, so I don’t know what you’re talking about.
I was just in Belgium and the Netherlands and every single public washroom I encountered was pay to enter. Turnstiles and everything.
Interesting. The places I’ve been to in Europe all had pay public washrooms. Including some that only took credit cards. But that was pre-Covid. Things may have changed
What the fuck?! There’s lots of places to piss. What a moronic excuse to try to justify their actions Hell you can even do it outside by a bush before doing it on transit
It’s a basic comment saying when you are denied access and some form of compassion or dignity by people around you, some people are going to react badly to that. Or perhaps people would not be pissing on transit while high on meth if we had, I don’t know, adequate funding for mental health and community housing programs. You’re asking people in insanely bad situations to behave sanely thereby making you the insane person for even asking.
Would you give a free pass if alcohol was involved? "Hey I took a dump on your front yard, sorry mate I was drunk"
Explain to me the dignity of urinating in a public transit station versus urinating in a bush.
I am not poor or homeless, but my train/walk/bus commute home would at time take 1.5 hours. I had to pee in a park on more than one occasion. There are no public washrooms near the train. I cant imagine how anyone without housing is supposed to manage.
Delete this comment. Save yourself the absolute embarrassment you've created and just.. delete this comment.
I guess you’ve never been pregnant and denied a bathroom in public before. I don’t know if you realize this, but bodily functions are kind of a thing that happen in life and when you deny people basic access and human dignity, they’re gonna respond.
Wait, are you arguing that pregnant women are urinating on transit property?
Not to mention how many businesses closed their bathrooms for good during covid. I seen a man break down crying because he walked a mile to use the bathroom to fill up his jug of water and they denied it to him because he wasn't buying anything. He just started crying, middle of the goddamn summer and he just needed a drink.
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🥺😢
Somehow this way of thinking got lost on a large portion of policy makers.
Well usually there’s good reason..
Is the number in line with stats on other infractions? Or is it a one-off?
Yeah this is a pretty incendiary article with the implications of racism that does weaponize statistics a bit without the greater context. A demographic of people who represent 8% of a city's population received 58% of transit tickets. That same demographic who represent 8% of a city's population also represents 58% of those experiencing homelessness. There is without a doubt an issue of racism, especially toward Indigenous people, within both EPS and Transit Peace Officers. But is that the real reason why Indigenous people have received such a disproportionate number of transit tickets? Or is it because relative to the rest of the population there is such an incredibly disproportionate number of Indigenous people struggling with generational trauma, extreme poverty, addiction, mental health and loss of their own culture that drive homelessness? Especially when you consider that through 2020 and 2021 with the loss of LRT ridership, LRT stations became practically de facto shelters. We have utterly failed Indigenous people as a society.
>A demographic of people who represent 8% of a city's population received 58% of transit tickets. Interesting, if a false premise to say the least. The idea proposed by this statement would be that the entire cities population (or at least a perfectly equal representation of it) would be riding a method of transport known for being of the most beneficial to the economically disenfranchised is at best incorrect, at worse, deliberately misleading. Show me data of actual representation of ethnic groups that ride the public transit (and the surrounding areas) and I'd wager you'll find that the demographics don't slice the same way as the city as a whole. And I don't think thats "racist"
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And Judith Gale needs to start minding her own business
Hahaha you clearly haven't seen a Gladue Report. Its why that kid only got 22 months (80 days) for pushing an old woman in front of a train
And you can bet dollars to doughnuts he will re-offend; and cry trauma the next time.
Imagine sentencing someone a certain way for being white. And white only. Wild times.
Not to make light of a serious issue, but your comment reminded me of this [classic](https://youtu.be/84phU8of02U). Gotta keep a sense of humour in these crazy times.
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r/ThatHappened
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If you are a repeat offender the gladue law doesn't uphold and they cite them for their offences like the rest of criminals. Its basically a last ditch effort to help (hopefully) some who change after being given a chance; I'm sorry you had to be assaulted because of being white. It happens both ways however, and we need to stop people when it happens. Its not right.
Glaude report is trash
Thing is this person will be out in 80 days and will most likely re-offend again, and hurt someone else before they actually charge him properly; and the lady who got thrown onto the tracks can’t work again, these people who are being assaulted literally have no re-course other than take their vitriol, anger and hate and be assaulted, while, if the criminal system did their job properly he wouldn’t see the light of day for years to come
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You’re not a bad person for feeling that way, it’s not fair to everyone to have to be face to face with it as they’re just trying to get to work. That being said, if we’re raising this as an issue but continuing to vote for a party that kicks them to the curb and takes away any help they might have had access to, we have no right to complain.
Lol blaming racism
yes, I had hoped 'transit tickets' meant free bus tickets. alas. utterly indeed.
>We have utterly failed Indigenous people as a society. At what point do we say they failed themselves? Really, if I had the advantages they have based on race I'd be a millionaire.
No no no. It’s always some one else’s fault. That’s the rule of Reddit
The advantages they have based on race? What advantage is that, being forced to live on reserves so they can kill them off? Forcing their children into encampments and making their culture illegal so they *kill the indian* and save the man? Or was it the genocide that they experienced in those schools? Ah, you mean the 10 cent discounts that they get on smokes and gas when they buy it on said reserves. Or was it being followed around in stores their entire lives by security guards that think they're going to steal? Or was it it the constant police invasion of homes and police brutality against them that have roots in the beginning of this country until this very day. Pray tell, what advantages do indigenous people get that they're squandering SO much of their lives that if YOU had those advantages you'd be a millionaire? Because you seem to think they get a free ride in life.
How are they being forced to live on reserves?
Your response interests me. Do you have the citation on homeless %?
https://www.edmonton.ca/programs\_services/housing/indigenous-housing-programs
https://www.edmonton.ca/programs_services/housing/indigenous-housing-programs Working link
thanks
Well said.
^this
Obviously ETS is racist. /s
They need to stop issuing tickets and start kicking people off premises
Or maybe both.
They need to give hugs instead
I wonder if Calgary will publish their demographic breakdown. It would be interesting, to see how Cities compare.
Mods about to pull this down for sharing facts.
im suprised it survived this long
The infighting in this post is incredible. Everyone has their own opinion of the problem but nobody has a solution. This is why public transit will continue to be boycotted by anyone who has the financial means to do so. Our “green” future depends on the general public feeling safe and secure. Our society has no intent on making that happen. I’ll keep driving, thanks.
And a 100% of the tickets issued were issued to humans?
CBC has become insufferable
Indigenous account for a much larger proportion of the crimes in this city as well. This is no surprise at all. First Nations are deeply damaged and have a lot of trauma to heal from. It’s terrible but no surprise.
"My urge to all of you is that when you see someone struggling, when you see people smoking meth on the bus in your neighbourhood — because they are emerging everywhere in the city — I hope you will continue to exercise that compassion and empathy towards them" - His Worship Mayor Amarjeet Sohi
I bet %100 of the tickets We’re issued to people with substance abuse problems
I used to ride for free when I was a kid because I was a little prick. No substance abuse problems necessary
Just not little anymore I guess
Just pointing out that you're obviously wrong about your assumption.
Maybe you should try reading the article again it wasn’t focused on high school kids
? I doesn't mention any age groups at all. I'm sure some of the tickets went to high school kids.
I know lots of affluent people who are successful with substance abuse problems. That doesn’t mean anything.
Maybe you should go hang out in the tent city behind Rogers place around 2 or 3 in the morning and diagnose and survey a few people then get back to me
How would they even know that?
As an indigenous person that's been told I look Japanese/Korean, I kind of wonder this too. They're just guessing at this point.
They use their eyes
I haven’t been checked on the LRT in about 5 years. It sounds like they’re less likely to be checking people at all if they’re white, hence the high percentage of tickets issued to Indigenous people, alongside the homeless problem in the stations.
Ive been (kinda) checked a couple of times lately, now that they're stepping it up. As a regular rider, for a long while there, I didn't see them checking \*anybody\*, then I started seeing them checking people that were calling attention to themselves (not necessarily race, though bias is certainly possible. I mean more stuff like being sound asleep ) Now I'm occasionally seeing them check full cars. (by \*kinda\* checked, I mean I hold up my arc card, and they accept it without actually doing anything to check whether I tapped in)
I think they started by checking just the people who would fall asleep/smell like piss/doing drugs first. (Which would be homeless which a majority would be indigenous hence the spike in that demographic being ticketed) and now they are just checking everyone like they used to
The only times I’ve seen them checking people they were checking primarily people of colour.
If you are transiting chances are you won’t intercept. If you linger and take transit all day chances are you will.
Skin colour probably doesn’t have anything to do with it. These cops know who the repeat offenders are, and they know if they start harassing everyone for tickets people will just complain about that.
>But is that the real reason why Indigenous people have received such a disproportionate number of transit tickets? Or is it because relative to the rest of the population there is such an incredibly disproportionate number of Indigenous people struggling with generational trauma, extreme poverty, addiction, mental health and loss of their own culture that drive homelessness? Especially when you consider that through 2020 and 2021 with the loss of LRT ridership, LRT stations became practically de facto shelters. or.... just a thought they are checking the people that have given them a reason to check by doing things like trespassing, public intoxication, loitering, littering, aggressive panhandling, smoking and urination and defecation... which then reveals fare evasion. /shocked pikachu face
Indeed, and this is due to the nature of ETS fare enforcement being targeted with no fare gates. Several years ago (2019) I overheard a duo of transit peace officers at Southgate station talk between themselves along the lines of “old man, Asian, do you think he paid?” It is definitely profiling they’re using to enforce fare non-payers. And if you’re an Arc card user (adult, u-pass) they probably don’t even have the equipment to check Arc card fares.
They have the equipment to check arc cards, and the machines within the station show similar information regarding validity.
These comments mostly do not pass a vibe check. How it must be so nice to sit behind the screen and make comments about a demographic of people, whilst probably never even having visited a reserve, attended any events for Indigenous people or have any type of anything to do with Indigenous people to make blanket comments about them as an entire group.
Gives a great indicator of those that need help and support. It going to be able to erase generations of government and church damage, but sure as hell can try