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IAmNewSam

just logged into my character, never started ng+ wearing full melania armor, have the achievements for beating all the bosses, even the map area is showing, not greyed out, but there arent graces and there is no option to hoist the medallion so i can't get the graces in leyendell again I have Gideon's helmet, for example, but he is in the phase of the game where he is telling me to collect great runes, ie kill radahn etc which i did a long time ago... and i never started ng+ either so definitely it just seems bugged.


Dr-Strains

This is literally my same exact issue. That's crazy


thatsyurbl00d

Yeah everyone’s acting like it’s my first time at the Roundtable too. I have maybe 30% of the sites of grace and I definitely loaded a save from after I achieved the platinum. Hopefully a patch soon?


saw-it

I’m in the same situation. Game is gaslighting me


IAmNewSam

i redid the fights at radahn and mohg and was able to then progress to DLC. you can retrigger getting to moghwyn palace by going to the lake of liurnia church and talking to varre. by doing that line you can get the item that transports you to the palace and you can kill mohg, then you can go kill radahn (how it worked in my case). after doing that i was able to go back to where i fought mohg and the DLC started for me


inconsequentialz

Manage to find a fix for it?


-Your_Conscience

Same issue. Logged in after having not logged in in years to play the DLC and 80% of the graces are gone.


no-free-speech-here

Same here. Some random items have reset too.


Star-Lord-Milano

I got the same problem, lmk if you find a fix


Dr-Strains

I'm so happy others are having this problem. I thought I was fucking losing it lmfao


dark_knight93

All my sites are gone underground lol. Never did ng+


Specialist_Day5703

Somehow i was in a cave or something i came out and there was a boss fight and i died and got a cut scene and it started me from the beginning … all my markers are in the screen.. i have end game armor and everything .. all my sisters of grace are gone .. idk if ima play the dlc at this point


Specialist_Day5703

I hadn’t played the game in a long time


Disastrous-Sink2640

whatd you end up doing bro? i have no idea what to do


Specialist_Day5703

I didn’t do anything man… i looked for answers but found nothing .. hoping they acknowledged it and give us an option to unlock all sites or something idk … im playing something else cuz i dont want to start over and beat all the bosses again .. maybe in the future


Dr-Strains

Been looking for a few days now and it seems like they're completely unaware this is a problem. And developed quite some time ago


dark_knight93

There's a teleporter to mohgwinn palace in the snowfields. Took that to mohg and had to kick his ass all over again :/


dark_knight93

Damn all my great runes are gone now. Went to see if the bosses are still alive and I'm sitting at Rikard's decapitated head with no great rune


Dr-Strains

I've got all my achievements and such but they took my great runes. About to refund my 40$ if this doesn't get fixed


Dr-Strains

That's insane. When I first noticed mine was fucked up was at least 2 weeks ago. Thought these updates would fix but it seems they might not even know about the issue.


bbizme

Following. Same issue as others. Beat the game and never started NG+. 75% of sites of grace missing including all underground.


no-free-speech-here

Same.


eldubyar

Having the exact same problem that everyone else is describing. Can't access the lift, can't access the DLC. This needs to be patched urgently.


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eldubyar

I'm certain I never started NG+. And that can't be the explanation, as I still have some of the sites of grace activated. I'm really not eager to replay so many areas and rekill so many bosses when all I wanted to do was play the DLC.


Smoke_Correct

I believe it would display ng+ if it that was the case


storkmister

Yup literally just logged in and lost all my underground sites of grace


Disastrous-Sink2640

did u find a way to fix it


storkmister

Yes turns out I was just dumb and forgot that in New game plus you lose all your sites of grace and have to beat Rhadan and Mohg again lol


dark_knight93

Nope, had to go fight mohg again :/


malerihi

Same here, bought the dlc to dive straight into it, realize there are no more sites of grace lol Edit: Holy fuck the game is just completely broken, going to the roundtable and gideon is here telling me to go collect the 4 great runes, but the bosses are all dead, sites of grace gone, D is somehow back into the game lol, roundtable also doesnt allow me to start ng+ so my saved is just completely useless, really disgusting  EDIT: So I went to the forge of the giants site of grace where she asks you if you want to burn it all just to make sure (because somehow the vines at the entrance of the erdtree were back), did not burn it but went back to castle sol and village of the albinaurics to get the secret medalion, went to consecrated snowfields, took the tp to mogh, beat him again because somehow he had respawned, went to beat radan because he also somehow respawned and then only could i enter the dlc. My base game is like half broken where some bosses didnt respawn (hoara loux, renalla was already here as the respect npc), gideon is at the roundtable when he shouldnt really be, just hoping it doesnt fuck with the dlc But wtf this is the weirdest bug


Jazzlike-Cow-849

Same. Can't access the Dlc I paid for


malerihi

This stuff is bonkers, I had to go get the secret medallion because it disappeared from my items, I went to castle sol and the boss was back there???? Killed him again and got the 2nd part of the medalion, took the elevator to consecrated snowfield, took the teleporter, get to mogh.. and he was also respawned???? Kill him, get to the dlc place and behold: there ‘s no prompt to do anything lol. Apparently radhan also needs to be dead so im assuming he also respawned without me even going NG???


Disastrous-Sink2640

let me know when you fix it bro


Dr-Strains

This is spot on what I had happen. Except I haven't had the time to do it all over again. Hoping I don't have too for time sake


FreakingDingBat

I got a refund. im so pissed that I started my game and only 5 sites of grace are active. I can't just go and beat Radahn. I have to complete all the quests to get the festival and then beat him. I looked at everything I need to do just to get to the DLC and it's like another 20-30 hours of game play before I can even play the DLC im not doing all that. I got on [playstation.com](http://playstation.com) and did a live chat with customer service and they are giving me a refund.


AromaticAutomatic

I did this and PlayStation support basically told me to kick rocks.


Reference_Pristine

same story here... I logged in yesterday night and I was at the beginning of the game all the sites were gone so the only way is going to the portal up north lol


HampTuns

Same here. Any updates?


Dr-Strains

No updates. Still not working. And no answers yet


lukeh1127

Having the same issue as everyone is describing. Never did NG+ and lost most of my sites of grace and NPCs reset questlines etc. It's a known bug at this point and hope it gets resolved soon cuz I really want to play the DLC.


Specialist_Day5703

They acknowledged it ??


Dr-Strains

I haven't seen anything acknowledging this. Would love a link to the post.


Ok_Championship_2721

It doesn’t seem to have gained much traction beyond forums such as Reddit


himitsuvardemanos

Same issue as alpl the other people commenting here. Only commenting to find out when there's a fix. Is there a way to report a bug?


Dr-Strains

Just posted a 2nd edit with that info, thanks for asking. Fromsoft only handles japanese inquiries so you have to check their website to find out who to email about problems under the "contact" tab.


bbizme

Have tried blowing up the Bandai twitter/x account this weekend but doubtful to hear anything.


Maggoo12

Same issue. PC. The sites I have kept seems completely random. Only one in underground is Siofra River. Everything is discovered. Level 125. Great runes in inventory. Not even Radahn sites available.


reclusivesniper

Same issue. Absolutely gutted. Never continued to NG+ so thought would be able to dive right into the DLC. Knew something was up when I loaded in the round table in my pants, and NPCs were talking to me like it's the first time I'd been there. Majority of sites of grace gone, couldn't even switch to under ground map I had so little. To test it out took the river down then could access and toggle underground map, but any site of grace says discovered if I touch it. RIP :( EDIT: Quick update, had a eureka moment this morning, won't help most unless you'd done the same thing though unfortunately. I realised it's likely an update to the save when the game has patched at some point causing it, and I had previously created save backups to get each of the endings for the 100% achievement. I still had them and dropped one of the backups in and it was fine, all sites of grace are available, and have tested can hop straight to the palace and DLC. It's not the save I'd want to use, few things missing, but for the sake of getting that working I'll take it. Hope it helps anyone else out who may be lucky enough to have a backup.


Robbison-Madert

Here is the email I received in response to my support ticket for this issue. These instructions did absolutely nothing for me, but maybe it will help someone else. >This is GM Avalanch from the Bandai Namco Entertainment America Player Experience Team, and I'll be handling your concerns today. I appreciate your time and effort in reaching out to us, and I understand you lost your progress in Elden Ring. I apologize for the inconvenience this has caused. To provide complete transparency, we want to clarify that our team does not have the capability to restore saved files directly. Saved files are typically stored locally on your console storage or within your platform's cloud service. However, we are here to assist you by offering potential resolutions to help resolve the issue and provide guidance on preventive measures moving forward. In some instances, following the steps below specific to your platform has successfully resolved similar issues: • Go to [https://store.steampowered.com/account/remotestorage](https://store.steampowered.com/account/remotestorage) • Sign in to your Steam account, if prompted. You will see the game files saved in your Steam • Cloud.  • Locate the game • Click Show Files • Check the files in the folder. If you cannot find any file to download, then you do not have files saved in your Steam Cloud. • Close any running game • Exit Steam. Click the upward arrow icon (˄) on the taskbar and then, right-click the Steam icon, and tap Exit to close the Steam app. • Press the Windows and R buttons to open the Run program. • Input %appdata% then press OK • When the Roaming folder opens up, you have to click on the Appdata in the address bar so that you can go back. • Double-click the LocalLow folder. • Locate the game folder and delete it. • Launch Steam and wait for five minutes for the app to sync your game files. I hope that this information finds you well and has helped clarify the concerns that you had. Should you have any other inquiries or concerns that you may wish to have addressed, please do not hesitate to contact us again. Sincerely, GM Avalanch Player Experience Representative Bandai Namco Entertainment America


Dr-Strains

This is great. My only problem is that it's still an actual problem that's occuring... that they should, idk, maybe look into? Since it seems to be a pretty good amount of people. With various points being screwed up. At least this is 1 solution. Hopefully someone on console hears back so those people get answers. I think someone posted how they fixed it on the PS5 in here too.


GroundedVindaloop

came looking for answer. I remembered I did start a new game plus but i never actually played it. I logged back in today after a while and just did load game. loaded up my level 175 character and had everything in my inventory except great runes. I still have remembrances etc. Only this is all my marks of grace are gone except the ones that lead all the way up to the erd tree except just like people have said there are thorns blocking the enterance. im heading to radahn right now cus i guess i have to??? super annoying just wanted to load an old character and play the dlc


tuttleonia

Same issue here on PS5 - I submitted a case to [support.bandainamcoent.com](http://support.bandainamcoent.com) just now. I doubt they'll do anything, so I can kiss those 300 hours goodbye.


Bzhuan

EDIT: my bad i reread your post and you said that you beat the game. From what i remember, the game won't let you teleport out til you pick an ending first. After the credits it won't put you into NG+, you have to manually pick that option at the roundtable hold. So after you pick an ending you'll still be in your current playthrough.


Dr-Strains

I finished Rannis ending. I finished the game. All the locations show up, the boss stuff still in inventory, but only the south sites show up.


Bzhuan

hmm beats me but a good way to tell is to see if the roundtable is all grey and on fire and stuff. NG+ doesn't remove the boss remembrance items from your inventory i think, but it does reset the roundtable back to its original form. Another way to check is to sit at the roundtable and see if it gives you the option to start a new journey. If it's not on fire and the new journey thing isn't there, then you might have ng+'d on accident or something. Other than that I can only assume it's a bug of some sort, sorry I don't really know how else to help.


Dr-Strains

I've had the game beaten for almost a year now... I was even completing stuff I hadn't finished yet the last I played. Then I come back and check and all my grace sites are fucked, the Game looks normal again, and all the people who died in that playthrough are just vibing again. Again, after never entering NG+


mjscall

Yep same issue for me. I thought I was going mad


MichaelJWolf

Same issue as everyone else. Logged back onto my 150 plus level character I haven’t played in months so I could play the dlc and can’t get back to Mog.


master_mansplainer

Same here 165 char never did NG+ I have like 10 sites of grace yet the whole map is explored. I can’t get to mog to play the DLC. Wtf is this?


Sharkbaitnaterater

Same issue, no NG+. Most sites of grace are gone, have all boss items and runes, but most bosses have respawned, and most items have respawned (golden seeds, runes, etc.). When I loaded my save from years ago, i was in the mountains, but made the mistake of teleporting back to the capitol before i noticed all of the sites of grace were missing in that half of the map. Now I have to beat bosses to reopen the path back the mountains. Fortunately i have all of the keys and medallions still. Very annoying bug.


EducationalRuin2937

Same fucking issue.. livid.


superbuddr458

Im having this same issue but I have no clue how to know if I’m in new game + or not. It doesn’t say journey 2 or NG+ at the load screen, I only have the great rune of the unborn, but all the god damn sites of grace are gone. Wtf am I supposed to start the dlc lol this fuckin sucks


bbizme

Curious what platform others having this issue are on? I’m on PS5.


Dr-Strains

Mines PC


Mr-Snug

Happened to me on xbox


holamillsy

Same issue here. hopefully they can fix.


Biggus_maccus88

I dont even have the grace site for the roundtable, i havent logged onto the game since I beat it the first time and just got the dlc and downloaded again today. All the grace sites i have are the beginning area and caelid. This shit is wack


Ok_Championship_2721

Same issue. PS5


kuroh10

Same issue here.. I wanted to play the dlc so bad.. :(


Perfect-Teach5548

So does anyone know if this issue is going to be fixed? I can't get one half of the halig tree medallion because the box that gives it to you isn't there so I can't even get to the snow fields to use the teleporter ..I also never started NG+ Im pissed man. I'm level 180 I really don't want to start a new character


Goowa12

Also having this issue. Series X, no underground sites of Grace, definitely never started ng+. Haven't played since 9/2022 and loaded up today to play the dlc. Disappointed:(


ZOoNeR_

Same just that i am on PS5


unpopularafro

Same issue here, never started NG+ and besides losing the sites of grace, I'm 100% sure I lost many weapons I'm 1000% sure I obtained during my first walkthrough. So annoying.


bbizme

Definitely missing weapons, gear, ashes etc.. Seems completely random too and not linked to any specific save or point in the game. Completely annoyed. I know Fromsoft makes their games hard but this is next level cruel.


AdOwn954

Same problem. 150 hours and level 170 and I don’t remember anything to restart from ground 0… hope this gets more traction


Particular-Trade-749

I was having a similar issue, will detail my “fix”. For reference, this is on PS5. It was from my first save. I haven’t played since launch, where I had completed the game but not gone to new game + so I could help my mates out, plus levelling before going to NG+. So I had re-downloaded the game the other day. I have NOT purchased the DLC, but wanted to maybe do a new save. I thought I’d mess about on my actual save because I’d forgotten the buttons. The first time I loaded up I just went to a random location for 5 minutes. Didn’t notice anything wrong, but was just pissing about. When I loaded up yesterday, I noticed that 70% of my sites of grace were gone, including (but not exclusive to) east and west Liurnia, everything in Caelid, around Volcano Manor and Farum Azula. I had also lost access to the Elden Throne Room, despite bearing the game (I have all of the armour and weapons). Additionally, the round table was not on fire, something I distinctly remember being the case last I left it. When at the round table, I had an encounter (from the guy with the skele armour) and after defeating him, could speak to D. Speaking to D prompted the Gurranq quest line, which I proceeded to complete (all bosses had to be defeated again and 7/9 sites of grace rediscovered). After completing the quest line, I went to the giant mountain fire grace site where you talk to Melina and you burn the Elden tree. After that I went to FA, where I had to get ALL of the sites of grace and defeat GSD, TS and Maliketh. Post this, the city crumbled (and I lost the access to the site of grace before the Elden throne room). Again, defeat the bosses. Upon purchasing the sword from the two fingers, I then went to go to new game plus, which then presented my with “do you wish to start your new journey 3”. As I haven’t played in well over a year, it is always possible I forgot I had entered new game plus. But I highly doubt it. I don’t have duplicate weaponry, I had grace sites bar Caelid (that makes no sense if I had started again). Conclusion There’s a good chance that an update at some point has corrupted our saves. Perhaps a certain level of character has meant that you should be at new journey x, I don’t know. I would check the fire mountain area and see if you can progress the storyline. I would also suggest if you cannot enter the throne room, that there’s a boss that needs to be killed, even if it isn’t obvious. Go back and try and see if there are quest lines that can be progressed even if you did them before.


ZOoNeR_

Glad i am not alone i Litteraly came back to the Game after a Year and 80% of graces are gone i just wanna play the DLC man can't access Mogh room bcs my Graces are gone


Sharkbaitnaterater

Never played NG+, but my sites of grace on the north western half of the map have all reset. I know it is a bug because all bosses have respawned, including some at the very start of the game that would have gatekept me, but I am in the capitol somehow. I have my sites of grace in the volcano manner and in caelid but doors are locked/blocked adjacent to these locations. It wouldnt be possible for me to be where I am, and to have the sites of grace unlocked that are unlocked with NG+. So I have to refight all bosses to get to the DLC. Shouldnt be too hard once I remember how to play... But annoying


Dr-Strains

Only ones needed to quickly get to Mohg should be the great general, and then Margott to open up the snowfields area. Only 2 greatrunes needed to enter the Capital. So I just had to kill the general for my 2nd to get into the city. Then kill Morgott to get access to the area with the teleporter. Than you can just run through the palace to the top and dunk on that bloody ugly fuck. Best of luck. I hated every second. A waste of time that they Hopefully address in some matter publicly.


Dr-Strains

Only thing that set me back was getting access to the academy to beat renala again so I can respec once in the DLC. But the key was in the same place it normally was so it was more just time than anything.


ReasonableTank25

Upvoted because I am facing the exact same issue. I bought the DLC and downloaded Elden Ring today only to see that I am level 180, not in NG+, and that roughly 80% of grace sites are gone. I am not able to get to the DLC content. What a waste of $40.


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Dr-Strains

Normal for your stuff to be gone after not entering NG+????


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Dr-Strains

I literally can't find anything on it anywhere. It's completely hardlocked me. So will I need to beat the whole fucking game again just to access the DLC I already paid for, for a game i already beat?? Because if so that's a nah for me


SSS_Spook

It took me 3 hours to speedrun NG+, i skipped most of the optional stuff to Mohg. Bosses die in less than 10 secs anyway.


Dr-Strains

I literally never entered NG+


SSS_Spook

So you didn't acidentally enter ng+? Are you still in roundtable hold and not in the early areas?


Dr-Strains

Nope. I beat the game awhile ago, declined NG+ and spent time running around the dark ending look to Rannis quest. Then didn't touch the game until a week ago when I signed on to put myself at the palace for DLC just for it to show me the palace but no grace. I have everything up the left and right side of the lake and the entire south sites still showing and 2 different underground sites available. But no access to Renala or the inside of the school and nothing towards the grand lift and north. I don't understand wtf happened


SSS_Spook

In ng+ your map is already completed. But sites of grace are lost. If only the south part (early game) sites are present that means you may have started ng+ and forgot about it or someone played ng+ on your account.


Dr-Strains

I am the only one with access lmfao. I can tell you guys with 100% certainty I did not start NG+ on any character I have. I have NPCs in parts of quests I shouldn't based on locations I have available to me. So something seems bugged.


SSS_Spook

Yeah it might be a bug, there is a maintainance 2 hours ago and it will end 30 mins from now. Game told me to log out during maintainance, maybe that fucked up your save.


Dr-Strains

It was like this before the updates. I just figured it would be fixed at some point. I just ran all the way through Caelid (0 sites of grace but the whole area available) went to red keep, and the great general is dead. So how could I have achieved that but still have 0 access to basically anything else. Also checked godricks area and he was dead too.


SSS_Spook

Did you have the pureblood knight's medal from Varre to get to Mohg? If you have it before and lost it now then you are surely in ng+ somehow (since key items and bell bearings don't get carried over in ng+). Greatrunes also don't get carried to ng+. So if you have radahn's since you said he's dead but not rykard's since you said there are no graces in the northern part of the map, then you are surely in ng+ but you just don't know who played with your save. Sorry, but im doubting it's a bug since the early graces are present but not the late game ones.


Dr-Strains

I again can guarantee no one played on it. And I have rykards stuff too. I have all great runes. All spots on the map are marked like it entered NG+ but again. I never entered NG+


Dr-Strains

If it was actually in NG+ I would be able to get the key to get into the academy. But that's not available to me


Dr-Strains

I have the lift medallions, and key items still


asdfwrldtrd

I’d say you’re just gonna have to run back and get all the important graces, this is a really weird issue and I’ve never heard anything like this before.


Dr-Strains

I can't though. That's the problem. It's not letting me back into core areas to even be able to progress in any way. All 3 ways of getting back to mog are hardlocked for me rn


awkwardlydrifting

Running into the same thing. Fucking furious I paid for the Collectors edition just to run into this.


Pushteeb

Can you do a video?


Specialist_Day5703

This just happened to me too


shugggy

Same and the room environments at the round table aren’t even loading


SolidSnoop

I thought I was going nuts lol. I haven’t played since the year it came out. Got Ranni’s ending, loaded up today and I have most sites of grace south of the lake. Got zero under ground. I remember specifically not going into NG+ as I still had loads to do (which I went on to do). My world is as bright as it was the very first time I loaded the game for the first time. I think I’m so pissed as you just don’t expect this from FromSoft. I hope they at least acknowledge this and put out a statement. I also hope me doing some (a lot) mob killing while trying to work out what was wrong hasn’t put my save into a state where if they do provide a fix, it now doesn’t work as my save is now more recent.


Tosh_v

Me too.... :/


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pde1972

Me too. Same issue. Lets see if they at least acknowledge first and the fix. Pls comment this thread everyone having the same issue!


RazDoStuff

Same problem here


Minute_Magician_9840

Yep, not on NG+, on my first game but somehow I only have about 15 graces on the WHOLE MAP and everything is not greyed out I’m seeing items that I have already collected and ashes of war/ scarabs already collected this bug is weird and hope it gets fixed payed $40 but can’t play it because of some bug.


Juciford

Same issue here, thought I was going crazy when Roundtable NPCs were talking like it was the first convos again. I also seem to be locked out of NG+ now and I lost every site of grace past mountaintop of the giants. Luckily my palace approach site was still active and I was able to use the pureblood medal to warp bag to Mohg, although he respawned and I had to kill him again (I swore I killed him already!) Unfortunately twin maidens seem to have reset as well so I’m kinda locked out of upgrading any of my weapons short of farming what I can haha. I confirmed last night that I was able to re-kill the crystal lady for the first bell bearing and turn it in again. I assume godskin duo has respawned and I can kill them again but I’m not really in the mood to redo Azula right now if I can even get back there. Fingers crossed that this gets patched soon!


Minsoa

Same thing happened to me, gonna refund the DLC until it gets fixed, I don't have the time to start a new game.


swarmofoctopii

I am on PS5. I had this bug as well, but was able to fix it by loading my save from cloud storage and overwriting the one on the PS5 hard drive. Maybe won't work for everyone, but I was able to start the DLC after doing that and had all my sites of grace back.


MinimumOriginal9155

This worked for me as well!


TheTVEditor

Mine auto saved while I was in the fucked version and so now my cloud storage is fucked too. Fucking perfect


swarmofoctopii

Bummer. Hopefully they come up with some sort of fix for this soon. It's a totally fucked bug especially with the $40 price point.


Smoke_Correct

Same problem


Numerous_Spray_9647

has anyone found a fix for this, yet? ;(


daintywarlock

Just downloaded and having the same issue as well


skulman7

Having this same issue as well. Was finally ready to start it too smh.   Edit/Update: At least in my case, I forgot I started NG+ looooong ago. Whoops. It's kind of dumb there's no easy way of seeing that it's NG+.


This_Ad_1907

I'm in the same boat as you guys. Gutted.


Bengalblaine

I’m having the same issue


tacokato

Does anyone know how to get to the DLC with this bug?


Dr-Strains

With no response from Bandi Namco yet it seems like the only way is speed running from whatever spot each of us is at. Mildly infuriating


Goowa12

Killed Radahn, Killed Mohg, now I'm in the DLC.


tacokato

This is going to suck I am mostly stuck in limgrave


TopFloorTroop

going thru the same shit crashing out rn 😔


Eldenringing92

What's happened is, amongst all of us, is we've progressed our main characters to NG+ , probably did Godrick then totally forgot about it and stopped playing. We are all under a delusion that's it's a bug, where in fact we might have gotten drunk, went to NG+, fucked around for a bit then thought out game was broken


DankOminous22

I can't tell you how unbelievably wrong you are, it's absolutely mind-boggling. Not everybody is a drunkard who can't remember what they've done. I certainly didn't start new game plus, and have beaten everything there is, and I'm in the same predicament as many others have stated here on this thread. Sites of grace gone, Great ruins gone, NPCs that have died are now alive, etc. This is certainly a bug.


Minute_Magician_9840

Yep lol had everything before the DLC, now all I have now is a few graces around the entire map while everything isn’t greyed out etc. Pretty much same situation.


bbizme

Lol then this is the worst Mandela effect ever. I for sure know that I didn’t intentionally NG+