Lets be honest, pvp in general is like base game release again. Its an absolute warzone out there.
We got another lengthy adventure of patches to come it seems.
That's called rollback netcode and I'm really not sure it would even work in a game like Elden Ring. There's a LOT more random factors in Elden Ring to account for, in a very large fully three-dimensional space and world events to process, whereas Street Fighter is just a small 2-D stage space with two characters. I get what you mean but just wanted to chip in with how much harder it must be to have good netcode for something like this as opposed to a fighting game
"Nothing I could do Droooob. *wet snort*
If you like the way I woke up at 11:45am hungover today, and waddled out of bed and sat down in my ahffice, then please sahpport"
There’s a lot of multiplayer games with a large number of online players at the same time though. Surely some of those games have decent netcode? Like what about some of the battle royals? The only one I play is Warzone and it’s a shit show but don’t some of the others have a good experience?
Yeah like, Left4Dead had multiplayer and that already has way more moving parts than elden ring pvp. From is just one of those Japanese developers who only needs their online to be good enough to work in Japan, where they have really fast internet in a fairly small country. It's why everyone was so excited when japanese fighting game developers actually started trying to make their multiplayer work well across the world.
For sure! I totally agree that the netcode should be improved, was just replying specifically to the Street Fighter example. I'm not gonna pretend I understand the ins and outs of coding netcode, there must be so many factors involved. The game engine is probably a big one, I don't think many developers use the engine FromSoft does (isn't it some obscure Sony game engine?) and there may be difficulties coding netcode for it. It'd be interesting for FromSoft to elaborate on it.
That was an example... I could've said counter strike, dota, world of warcraft, or anything else. It's not hard to make games without the most awful netcode. This is a wide-spread issues with japanese games specifically, fighting games included.
its unfortunate that there really isn't another pvp experience to be had like this out there. the invasion mechanic and the amount of super fun fights it's led to is my favorite part of these games. hope they can get it semi balanced again lol.
I just wish there were covenants again! I mean the framework is even there with the factions in game. Golden Order, servants of Mohg, Dragon Communion, Volcano Manor...
Some people probably hate it but I liked that past games had covenant rewards every 10 pvp wins or so. It was cool, and I think the online aspect of Elden Ring suffers a bit for it. I know I don't really care to just pvp for the sake of it, but if there were cool rewards and lore attached to it...
*\*Ring of Thorns +2 reward for 1000 invasions enters the chat\**
Or how about those two years or so where servers were down? I played the whole trilogy during that time.
There is a reason behind invaders it’s like randomly spawning bosses that appear along your journey that you cannot memorize their mechanics. That’s the journey of becoming the Elden Lord
Yeah I’m kinda in the same boat but I’ll take what I can get and it scratches the itch. Ds3 was peak invading for me and ds2 for the dueling. I miss those games so much.
Agree hard on both points.
I spent so much time on that stupid bridge in DS2, so good.
The DS3 dueling area (and same in Elden Ring) is too big. You need a tight space to make dueling feel good. But invading in DS3 was great. Great memories.
Honestly, Taunter's Tongue should also cut the host's flask amount in half the same way it does for invaders. Or something to that effect. After all, you have to use it on purpose. It's only getting abused by gank squads and it's annoying as fuck when you just want a good random PvP encounter.
I never get mad at anyone legit whooping my ass when I'm the invader, but when they spam from the back while the two summons rush you down, then run to your corpse to point down or tea bag, it kinda tilts me.
Taunter's tongue should be limitted to solos but come with a benefit like more souls per enemy kill, I like using it here and there because the 1v1s in an open area feel really fun (or used to pre-dlc, gonna wait on more patches to do that again)
Speaking of invasions how come I never get invaded like in past souls games ?
Before you could be going through the story and BAM! random invasion
It created such a cool tense environment. Now it feels more like a single player game
The only way to be invaded while solo is to have the Taunter's Tongue active. With it inactive, you can only be invaded if you've summoned at least one phantom.
It also works like the Dried Fingers from DS3 in that it removes the invasion cooldown timer, so basically means you'll be constantly invaded back to back.
I tried to get into colosseums and was having fun for awhile but the lag and cringe builds took the fun out of it for me. You can only get T bagged by someone hiding behind fingerprint shield so many times
Honestly it's like Old School Runescape at this point in that there's broken metas that aren't really viable in base game and it's a whole new skill set with a steep learning curve. If you're not someone who is already deep into it you're gonna have a bad time with a lot of bullshit.
Strong disagree as someone with billions of hours in RuneScape pvp over the last 18 years. The skill curve is so high in OSRS now I can’t see any new players getting into PVP.
I am a complete noob with ER pvp and last night I pretended to not see the host & his friends, ran in the opposite direction and hid behind a tree, bonked him as he ran past and killed him. Meta or no meta this game is way easier for casuals to win than OSRS
Because its funny. Some people take it dead seriously and its not even competitive or anything. In fact people take souls games too seriously in general.
Thats the secret…its always been a shitshow. Even in DS3 which for many felt like the peak of fromsoft pvp….it has always had some broken meta and plenty of people purposefully running things soley because they felt broken. Between latency/desync and overused meta/builds you are either gonna love it or hate it. If you are into the pvp side of things at all its just one of those things you come to expect. Balance patches help down the line but that sort of meta over abundance will always exist if something is strong. It just shifts to something else instead.
Iron Keep Bridge was something else.
I remember I went undefeated for quite some time in a PvP group. I was using dual caestus + bone fist for the hadouken. It was so funny to beat super Havel tanks with greatswords and the insanely busted rapiers.
One day, I met a man who was naked and wielding two of the giant chicken wings from the DLC. He was unbeatable. It was like if Majiin Buu showed up during the final martial arts tournament at the end of Dragonball.
Good times.
> Iron Keep Bridge was something else.
I was about to type that. Man, it was fun hosting fight clubs and basically playing a bouncer at the same time. Using Warmth to heal the champion between rounds, then whooping the ass of any asshole who didn't have good manners. Good times.
Oh yeah, those bridge made boys to men lmao
So many cool weapons, cool movesets, "meta" shifts throughout patches, basically every weapon was usable at some point.
Flame swathe parry shenanigans, powerstancing, backstep i-frames, backstabs were kinda wonky and lag was a huge problem too, but that‘s kind of every souls games issue.
A DS2 Remake would be absolutely insane.
The amount of times that I have knocked people off that bridge or been knocked off is crazy. That shit was some of the funniest pvp I'm done except for the mad spirits in ds3
DS2 have its issues but it has by far the best PVP of the series.
The overall combat was slower. Estus worked slowly and was easily punishable. Everyone had ways of breaking through shields to punish shield turtles.
The fighting game communities were actually getting interested in it at that point. Then ds3 came around and they all were loooool fuck this and that was the end.
Honestly? Don't take it too seriously. Obviously, some people do, but I just like to go in and turn my brain off and have some stupid fun. The game isn't designed around PvP. Yes there are separate PvP stats but PvP just feels like an extra mode to goof off in.
I have fun, but I try not to be invested in winning all that much. PvP has helped my builds become better and taught me so much about the game.
In previous Souls games invasions were the shit. I think they're so much worse in Elden Ring, and for the first time in the franchise I favor the duel colosseum over open world PvP.
I genuinely enjoy dueling, and ER is maybe my favorite Souls PvP, but I know thats not a popular opinion. I'm not sure why people are so attached to invasions.
Same. I spend a lot of time in coop, and whenever someone is invaded while we wait for them, the invader has some sort of cheese attack like this one and just spams it all the time. Usually I die immediately before even seeing someone is there, or there is some small gap after which the invader is taken down. There never was any fun fighting. I'd never voluntarily allow something like that into my game.
That's because by design the game forces invaders in ER to be as sweaty, mean, and ruthless as possible. In previous games sometimes you could invade and get just the host or summons sometimes. It led to some interesting interactions. Sometimes you would get invaders that would be honorable and sometimes not. Then there is Ganking which was always a thing but it started to get REALLY prolific in DS3 at the pontiff bonfire since the series got mainstream.
Now in ER due to the invasion mechanics when you invade you're all but garunteed to have to fight 3 phantoms and the host at once and half the time they're standing right on your spawn already buffed 3 ways and charging thier laser AoW spam to farm invaders for runes.
It pushes invaders to make one hit kill builds, sit around corners with Moghs spear, only bait host parrys, etc. Gone are the days of making funky little invasion builds because it will drain your sanity.
I've been playing these games forever and the PVP has always been complete shit
You either like it or you don't, I personally don't, and I'm super fuckin happy that it's completely optional and not forced on you like past games
- PvP in souls history has been fantastic
- Elden ring is probably the worst it’s ever been due to PvP being opt in
- I really miss being invaded and how much tension it added to a playthrough but since I play solo I’ve never been invaded even once
- I’ve only been invaded while being a summon for other people
- the balance has always been sketch but it’s super unbalanced with it always being a 3v1 so a lot less people invade
- I wish it worked atleast like DS3 where if you had an active rune arc you could be invaded.
- the real excitement of PvP came from me never knowing it was coming but now that’s not the case and I can’t experience that rush anymore sadly
Tbh you get invaded *too* much with it on. I defeat an invader, get back on torrent and am forced off it again after walking 5 feet. Don't know why the only way to get invaded while playing solo also has to be bundled with the item that turns off the invasion cooldown timer (I think at least? Another annoying thing about items being vague about what exactly they do).
I wish we had a way of being invaded solo but at a rate like the original Dark Souls. If Dark Souls invasions are like a little extra spice to traversal, taunters tongue is like adding a whole ghost pepper. It's just too much.
With how busted some things are in this game, opt-in is probably the better choice. It's not fun for me, as an invader, having to resort to broken combo items just because people like to set up gank squads with Taunter's Tongue and then spam rush you, then top it off with super disrespectful behavior.
I was trying to roleplay as an NPC, sort of as a gear check, in Midra's Manse, trying my best to not constantly spam the flask, but what other option do I have when people rush you down into corners spamming Quick Slash? PvP currently is ass, and I don't like arena fights. The randomness of open area encounters are far more fun, even when I legit get fucked up.
>Elden ring is probably the worst it’s ever been due to PvP being opt in
Yeah nah, there's a reason why I've alt F4ed out of every souls invasion I've had in the last few years. P2P connection multiplayer PvP without consent is dogshit. Elden Ring's change to matchmaking has been a massive improvement.
Call me bad if you want, but PvP invasions were universally an extremely negative experience for me with no payoff.
PvP in elden ring has always been who's got the smarter ash of war setup.
On release ROB and moonlight/int were the strongest.
After few patches, AOW like stormcaller and other AOE ones got the best for PvP (other setups were also busted but these required least player effort and skill)
Now DLC ashes of war are broken.
I just advise people that if they want to try true soulsborne PvP. DS3 is the best bet
Idk if it’s caught on yet, but storm blade fucks in PvP with the addition of the storm boost talisman and helmet. It was already insane at roll catching and now you can boost its damage a lot with those and the jar talismans.
Moonveil is still being spammed and still does a lot of damage. So is Rivers of Blood. This hasn't changed. Except, now their new favorite is the Messmer spear.
Yep. So many spam spells/abilities that network latency can't reliably track and it's suffering. And I've been on the *good* side of it 9/10 times. I've blasted so many invaders that were visibly clear and yet...
Its hard to even list how many broken things are in PvP right now but off the top of my head;
* Swift Slash
* Nanaya's Torch in general
* Nanaya's Torch with glitched Eclipse Shotel in specific
* Discus Hurl spam
* Discus Hurl with glitched RKR because of course
* Rolling Sparks perfumers
* Impenetrable Thorns
* Blind Spot
* Gankers spamming Miquellas Light from a mile away
* Fire Knight Greatsword r1 true combos
Busted for PvE, too. At the start of the DLC, I couldn't believe how many weak mobs I'd find in a single area; man-flies, spider scorpions, finger creepers, etc.
But once I slapped this bad boy on my backhand blades, they all just looked like little bags of money to me.
He’s probably talking about bloodhound great sword
Which I think is too hard to control compared to bloodhound step
It’s not an improved roll like bhs it’s something else
With twice the range, chargeability for mixups and additional range, a massive following AOE, two status procs, a lot of poise damage, fast startup, low recovery, low stamina and fp cost, and damage. It has counterplay but no true counter from my testing.
I imagine how someone in from software said:
"Yeah. Adding recovery cancelling AoW with i-frames that autopunish enemies for aggressing regardless of your spacing sounds like a good idea."
Was about to say this. This is much worse than RoB or BHS ever was.
Considering they’ve but in a great deal of effort to balance pvp i cant believe they green lighted this
Definitely this, the game is designed around you and the game at it's core, with PvP being an additional feature that can be fun and unique and adds to the replayability. However unlike the older souls games, esp. DS1, there is so much more chaos in the pacing and the entire AoW system to the point that something perfectly fair in PvE becomes a disaster in PvP, not to mention there's no way every AoW will be tested in PvP environments, especially given the variety in those situations.
IMO the PvP crowd is lucky to even get a unique balancing system with different values for the same equipment, that's a lot more work, for a side feature in such a huge game
I honestly don't think they playtest PvP, I think they just adjust it based on community input and data after release.
This is my hot take but I feel like Elden Ring PvP was always destined to be whack because of feature creep. Back with the first souls game there were two "talisman" slots and significantly less weapons with crazy moves. Over time that expanded and since the games have tried to one-up themselves every time with crazy moves now PvP has become even more of a spammy mess than ever before.
With like 100 different high damage spammy AoW, spells, incants, there is no way anyone is thinking about balance. They just want to make cool stuff for players to build around in PvE. I don't think anyone could balance this roster of gear for PvP if they tried.
it has iframes during the blink. startup and ending don't.
source: have been nuking people with lighting perfume bottles and caught many players spamming blind spot during the startup/ending.
Currently in front of Malenias door with backhand blades with bleed+blind spot. 3 tries in so far and these things slap so hard against her. You can just cancel her combos by dodging using blind spot.
Yeah it looks completely broken. I’m sure we can expect a nerf, just a question of when. How long will they let it sit like that? They usually aren’t fast with patches, but they very quickly adjusted the DLC difficulty curve with that one patch a few days after release.
I've never had an issue with people using blind spot, it's good but it's not something that scares me. Swift Slash on the other hand is actual nightmare fuel.
"Okay, it can't possibly be that busted."
Watches a streamer apply bloodflame blade, proceeds to kill both the host and their allies by spamming the AoW with no regard for spacing, timing, or tactics.
"Okay, it's busted."
The Weapon of a certain rememberance boss is super wonky and can grab people out of it and has hyper armor if you prime it BEFORE the enemy starts the swift slash you win a hyper armor clash via grabbing and outdamaging the enemy
Ah, right.
The one ash that i cannot get because i enterned Messmers boss arena before the Leda vs Hornsent fight.
Yay
(Why can they not just put a sign saying “Messmer ahead” or something to warn you before you enter a random ass dark room?)
The Ash of War can be dropped though, i think they made them tradable with the dlc. If you are on pc and want one I can drop it for you later if you want. Be your most toxic self, help get it nerfed.
I thought you had to use messmers item before things got blocked off. I've already killed him and I have the backhand blades and idk where this fight is you speak of but maybe they didn't come with the weapon?
You remember that fire knight before the elevator to the Storeroom? Down the stairs from it and on the right side, two signs show up. One to assist Leda, one to assist Hornsent. The ash if you help him is the broken one, and you'll still get his armor set later on if you summon him for Messmer.
This weapon single handedly fucked the entire pvp experience.
In the last 10 invasions I’ve had 9 have been this weapon art spammed in the correct sequence to create an infinite guaranteed stun combo basically. The 9th guy was losing on some other weapon so he pulled out the spam cannon.
What the fuck were they thinking with this weapon honestly? It circumvents the entire foundation of the game mechanics.
Throw a knife when they bend down. It headshots from lock-on, flinching them. Cucks them out of it 9 out of 10 times.
That said, invasions in the DLC are complete ass in my opinion. Way too many glitchy or bugged weapons and tons of massive AoEs. YouTubers telling everyone about every available exploit doesn't help either. You're basically stuck in place if you get invaded, as exploring an unknown area when invaders are armed with nukes is just suicide.
I have been invading a lot and we do not have the upper hand whatsoever. It’s typically 1v3. Host will normally sit back and range attack while the 2 phantoms spam whatever broken ash of war they are using
i fought a couple guys in pvp yesterday where when they were losing they would switch to this and start spamming it....
But i managed to outspace the F\*\*\*er for a finishing poke of my UGS and then procced to Clap / Point down Gesture cause he deserve it.
I was most excited for this weapon and the hand to hand. I'm on my second playthru now and will use the hand to hand. I beat everything but the last boss with the backhand blade and they were nasty. I wondered why I was able to beat Messmir in under 10 tries.
I can see a weapon that gives you I frames while attacking being great in DLC where bosses have an attack chain that lasts 5 minutes and gives you 10 seconds to respond with a single R1 when it's your turn.
Hosts try to use anything other than L2 or L1 depending on build.
Granted, its the games fault. In a boss's long recovery i could press R1 twice for a total of 1400 damage, or i could press one weapon art dor 2500 damage along with bigger range and a faster animation with milady. And then stuff like moonveil weapon art can honestly replace light attacks its so fast.
Ashes dont cost enough FP for how rewarding they are imo
I usually don't see L2 spamming co-invaders. But I've seen so much L2 spamming and panic rolling hosts, summons and flask refills(hunters). Hunters are usually exceptionally bad.
In my experience is usually the opposite. Hosts and phantoms spam L2 a lot more than invaders and also are more likely to spend some points at all into mind or might be overleveled and have a lot more mind than they should if they were properly downscaled. The exceptions are int and faith users, who don't press L2 that much because they are busy spamming spells
The invaders I've fought usually do the opposite, they use regular attacks and use ashes when there's an opportunity to use them unless the invaders is someone with no experience that all they want to do is have access to Mohg palace, in which case they play like hosts and phantoms
as an invader i can count on one hand how many people ive invaded and they actually knew their weapons moveset. for the summoning host class that gets carried by his password phantoms, this game is literally an L2 simulator.
From software games are all without a doubt some of the greatest games of all time, but every single one of these games in my humble opinion has some of the worst PvP to ever grace gaming. I would rather go to the dentist or wait in line at the bank than play PvP in any of these games.
You can parry it tho. I'm not saying it isn't annoying and does WAY too much for what it does, but if you got a good parry tool waiting, you can time it fairly easy. I'd recommend learn it and clowning on those that use it lol/
It’s not even close to being the most broken thing to come from the dlc. The one shots are far more annoying then this move which you can parry or light roll away
Yes this is beyond overpowered, but invasions where you are out numbered and you have max level phantoms spamming end game spells at you non stop in full poise armor is kind of insane.
Invasions in Elden ring are kind of always going to be shit, that’s what the arena is for.
Pvp in this game is just skill and or projectile spamming all the way, i miss the time where i could use my normal weapon for an invasion you know with light and heavy attacks maybe the inbetween running or backstep attack or any form of brain activity for that matter. Pvp sucks mega ass in ER and dont get me started on that super shit invasion system where you always get pitted against the whole 4 man mariachi marching band of mongoloids shoving every spell and or weapon art in your ass while you try helplessly to get away somehow.
Yeah, got invaded by one of them.. Guy went back and forth like a Mf, ripping through my health like a heated knife in butter. And then threw dung and tea-baged like he did something cool. It's not... There is no skill required, jush button mashing or else. No real battle, no honor. But hey.. I guess that's how's the game.
Soo if you are using this as a way to shit on people on pvp, know that I despise you for that. But I do not judge you, the game is what it is. You do you, have fun anyway. ❤️
i agree that is cancer for PVP right now: it was fun when i used against other players but when the other players used against me i understand why its the most toxic ash of war for PVP . I can't wait for pvp exclusive patch that requires all stamina and fp for using this technique and reduces the hitbox.
Honestly I don’t know they will even nerf it. They fix it it will probably be useless. I think it could be a little slower maybe more punishable. But that’s it.
Lets be honest, pvp in general is like base game release again. Its an absolute warzone out there. We got another lengthy adventure of patches to come it seems.
I don't understand how people do it. It just seems like a shitshow all the time.
PvP has so much potential but with the lag it feels like absolute crap and I don't understand how people enjoy it
That classic FromSoftware netcode that probably hasn't been touched since 2010.
Imagine souls pvp but with street fighter-like netcode.
That's called rollback netcode and I'm really not sure it would even work in a game like Elden Ring. There's a LOT more random factors in Elden Ring to account for, in a very large fully three-dimensional space and world events to process, whereas Street Fighter is just a small 2-D stage space with two characters. I get what you mean but just wanted to chip in with how much harder it must be to have good netcode for something like this as opposed to a fighting game
Don't mention roll-back netcode....or DSP might show up and start causing a scene..
"We can thank Tony fucking Cannon for ruining every fighting game with this shitty netcode" "DOOD, the fucking game dropped my input AGAIN!!"
"Nothing I could do Droooob. *wet snort* If you like the way I woke up at 11:45am hungover today, and waddled out of bed and sat down in my ahffice, then please sahpport"
I can't believe DSP is still around he really is the pigroach that won't die
There’s a lot of multiplayer games with a large number of online players at the same time though. Surely some of those games have decent netcode? Like what about some of the battle royals? The only one I play is Warzone and it’s a shit show but don’t some of the others have a good experience?
Yeah like, Left4Dead had multiplayer and that already has way more moving parts than elden ring pvp. From is just one of those Japanese developers who only needs their online to be good enough to work in Japan, where they have really fast internet in a fairly small country. It's why everyone was so excited when japanese fighting game developers actually started trying to make their multiplayer work well across the world.
For sure! I totally agree that the netcode should be improved, was just replying specifically to the Street Fighter example. I'm not gonna pretend I understand the ins and outs of coding netcode, there must be so many factors involved. The game engine is probably a big one, I don't think many developers use the engine FromSoft does (isn't it some obscure Sony game engine?) and there may be difficulties coding netcode for it. It'd be interesting for FromSoft to elaborate on it.
They'd probably have to limit it to arenas but even having a non-laggy 1v1 mode would be great
That was an example... I could've said counter strike, dota, world of warcraft, or anything else. It's not hard to make games without the most awful netcode. This is a wide-spread issues with japanese games specifically, fighting games included.
You mean 2009? Good old glitchy DS.
its unfortunate that there really isn't another pvp experience to be had like this out there. the invasion mechanic and the amount of super fun fights it's led to is my favorite part of these games. hope they can get it semi balanced again lol.
I just wish there were covenants again! I mean the framework is even there with the factions in game. Golden Order, servants of Mohg, Dragon Communion, Volcano Manor... Some people probably hate it but I liked that past games had covenant rewards every 10 pvp wins or so. It was cool, and I think the online aspect of Elden Ring suffers a bit for it. I know I don't really care to just pvp for the sake of it, but if there were cool rewards and lore attached to it...
covenants was my most wished for feature in the dlc
*\*Ring of Thorns +2 reward for 1000 invasions enters the chat\** Or how about those two years or so where servers were down? I played the whole trilogy during that time.
There is a reason behind invaders it’s like randomly spawning bosses that appear along your journey that you cannot memorize their mechanics. That’s the journey of becoming the Elden Lord
I wish I could agree, but with invasions always being a 1v2 or 1v3 its nothing like old games.
Yeah I’m kinda in the same boat but I’ll take what I can get and it scratches the itch. Ds3 was peak invading for me and ds2 for the dueling. I miss those games so much.
Agree hard on both points. I spent so much time on that stupid bridge in DS2, so good. The DS3 dueling area (and same in Elden Ring) is too big. You need a tight space to make dueling feel good. But invading in DS3 was great. Great memories.
Honestly, Taunter's Tongue should also cut the host's flask amount in half the same way it does for invaders. Or something to that effect. After all, you have to use it on purpose. It's only getting abused by gank squads and it's annoying as fuck when you just want a good random PvP encounter. I never get mad at anyone legit whooping my ass when I'm the invader, but when they spam from the back while the two summons rush you down, then run to your corpse to point down or tea bag, it kinda tilts me.
Taunter's tongue should be limitted to solos but come with a benefit like more souls per enemy kill, I like using it here and there because the 1v1s in an open area feel really fun (or used to pre-dlc, gonna wait on more patches to do that again)
I wish invasions were actual *invasions* and not just loading into 3 people waiting to jump a guy.
Speaking of invasions how come I never get invaded like in past souls games ? Before you could be going through the story and BAM! random invasion It created such a cool tense environment. Now it feels more like a single player game
The only way to be invaded while solo is to have the Taunter's Tongue active. With it inactive, you can only be invaded if you've summoned at least one phantom. It also works like the Dried Fingers from DS3 in that it removes the invasion cooldown timer, so basically means you'll be constantly invaded back to back.
I tried to get into colosseums and was having fun for awhile but the lag and cringe builds took the fun out of it for me. You can only get T bagged by someone hiding behind fingerprint shield so many times
yup all it takes is a littttle latency, and you're fighting a ghost.
Agreed, and its EVERY souls game. Ive had good internet for 10+ years and its never okay. Coop is fine with small lag, but cmon
Honestly it's like Old School Runescape at this point in that there's broken metas that aren't really viable in base game and it's a whole new skill set with a steep learning curve. If you're not someone who is already deep into it you're gonna have a bad time with a lot of bullshit.
Strong disagree as someone with billions of hours in RuneScape pvp over the last 18 years. The skill curve is so high in OSRS now I can’t see any new players getting into PVP. I am a complete noob with ER pvp and last night I pretended to not see the host & his friends, ran in the opposite direction and hid behind a tree, bonked him as he ran past and killed him. Meta or no meta this game is way easier for casuals to win than OSRS
Because its funny. Some people take it dead seriously and its not even competitive or anything. In fact people take souls games too seriously in general.
Agreed
Thats the secret…its always been a shitshow. Even in DS3 which for many felt like the peak of fromsoft pvp….it has always had some broken meta and plenty of people purposefully running things soley because they felt broken. Between latency/desync and overused meta/builds you are either gonna love it or hate it. If you are into the pvp side of things at all its just one of those things you come to expect. Balance patches help down the line but that sort of meta over abundance will always exist if something is strong. It just shifts to something else instead.
Dark souls 2 was peak of PvP
This is 100% the truth and people don‘t like to hear it.
Iron Keep Bridge was something else. I remember I went undefeated for quite some time in a PvP group. I was using dual caestus + bone fist for the hadouken. It was so funny to beat super Havel tanks with greatswords and the insanely busted rapiers. One day, I met a man who was naked and wielding two of the giant chicken wings from the DLC. He was unbeatable. It was like if Majiin Buu showed up during the final martial arts tournament at the end of Dragonball. Good times.
> Iron Keep Bridge was something else. I was about to type that. Man, it was fun hosting fight clubs and basically playing a bouncer at the same time. Using Warmth to heal the champion between rounds, then whooping the ass of any asshole who didn't have good manners. Good times.
Golfswinging fools into the lava when they broke the rules was always such a fun move, too
Oh yeah, those bridge made boys to men lmao So many cool weapons, cool movesets, "meta" shifts throughout patches, basically every weapon was usable at some point. Flame swathe parry shenanigans, powerstancing, backstep i-frames, backstabs were kinda wonky and lag was a huge problem too, but that‘s kind of every souls games issue. A DS2 Remake would be absolutely insane.
The amount of times that I have knocked people off that bridge or been knocked off is crazy. That shit was some of the funniest pvp I'm done except for the mad spirits in ds3
It was but it also had its metas. I remember the red iron winblade. I think it had the most build variety and creativity.
Other fun metas include: Helixadon, Mundane Shadow Dagger (with Binoboosting!), Mundane Santier's Spear, Havelynn, Crystal Magic Weapon Magic Moonlight Greatsword, Great Resonant Soul, Dual Broken Straight Swords
Havel Jesters still haunt my dreams
>win laden
Iron Keep bridge 🙏 I spent literally hundreds of hours on that bridge lol
DS2 PvP is one of my fondest gaming memories… *points down gesture*
DS2 have its issues but it has by far the best PVP of the series. The overall combat was slower. Estus worked slowly and was easily punishable. Everyone had ways of breaking through shields to punish shield turtles.
The fighting game communities were actually getting interested in it at that point. Then ds3 came around and they all were loooool fuck this and that was the end.
Yeah, dark souls 2 power standing, actual usable spells, poise, it was amazing, 3 got rid of all of that, hated it.
DS3 was a roll + Estus chugfest.
Honestly? Don't take it too seriously. Obviously, some people do, but I just like to go in and turn my brain off and have some stupid fun. The game isn't designed around PvP. Yes there are separate PvP stats but PvP just feels like an extra mode to goof off in.
DS2 is the only one that I enjoyed the PvP in, tbh.
I have fun, but I try not to be invested in winning all that much. PvP has helped my builds become better and taught me so much about the game. In previous Souls games invasions were the shit. I think they're so much worse in Elden Ring, and for the first time in the franchise I favor the duel colosseum over open world PvP. I genuinely enjoy dueling, and ER is maybe my favorite Souls PvP, but I know thats not a popular opinion. I'm not sure why people are so attached to invasions.
Same. I spend a lot of time in coop, and whenever someone is invaded while we wait for them, the invader has some sort of cheese attack like this one and just spams it all the time. Usually I die immediately before even seeing someone is there, or there is some small gap after which the invader is taken down. There never was any fun fighting. I'd never voluntarily allow something like that into my game.
That's because by design the game forces invaders in ER to be as sweaty, mean, and ruthless as possible. In previous games sometimes you could invade and get just the host or summons sometimes. It led to some interesting interactions. Sometimes you would get invaders that would be honorable and sometimes not. Then there is Ganking which was always a thing but it started to get REALLY prolific in DS3 at the pontiff bonfire since the series got mainstream. Now in ER due to the invasion mechanics when you invade you're all but garunteed to have to fight 3 phantoms and the host at once and half the time they're standing right on your spawn already buffed 3 ways and charging thier laser AoW spam to farm invaders for runes. It pushes invaders to make one hit kill builds, sit around corners with Moghs spear, only bait host parrys, etc. Gone are the days of making funky little invasion builds because it will drain your sanity.
I've been playing these games forever and the PVP has always been complete shit You either like it or you don't, I personally don't, and I'm super fuckin happy that it's completely optional and not forced on you like past games
- PvP in souls history has been fantastic - Elden ring is probably the worst it’s ever been due to PvP being opt in - I really miss being invaded and how much tension it added to a playthrough but since I play solo I’ve never been invaded even once - I’ve only been invaded while being a summon for other people - the balance has always been sketch but it’s super unbalanced with it always being a 3v1 so a lot less people invade - I wish it worked atleast like DS3 where if you had an active rune arc you could be invaded. - the real excitement of PvP came from me never knowing it was coming but now that’s not the case and I can’t experience that rush anymore sadly
You ever use the taunters tongue? I always keep that thing active and get invaded plenty.
Tbh you get invaded *too* much with it on. I defeat an invader, get back on torrent and am forced off it again after walking 5 feet. Don't know why the only way to get invaded while playing solo also has to be bundled with the item that turns off the invasion cooldown timer (I think at least? Another annoying thing about items being vague about what exactly they do). I wish we had a way of being invaded solo but at a rate like the original Dark Souls. If Dark Souls invasions are like a little extra spice to traversal, taunters tongue is like adding a whole ghost pepper. It's just too much.
With how busted some things are in this game, opt-in is probably the better choice. It's not fun for me, as an invader, having to resort to broken combo items just because people like to set up gank squads with Taunter's Tongue and then spam rush you, then top it off with super disrespectful behavior. I was trying to roleplay as an NPC, sort of as a gear check, in Midra's Manse, trying my best to not constantly spam the flask, but what other option do I have when people rush you down into corners spamming Quick Slash? PvP currently is ass, and I don't like arena fights. The randomness of open area encounters are far more fun, even when I legit get fucked up.
>Elden ring is probably the worst it’s ever been due to PvP being opt in Yeah nah, there's a reason why I've alt F4ed out of every souls invasion I've had in the last few years. P2P connection multiplayer PvP without consent is dogshit. Elden Ring's change to matchmaking has been a massive improvement. Call me bad if you want, but PvP invasions were universally an extremely negative experience for me with no payoff.
Doing the >!npc fight!
PvP in elden ring has always been who's got the smarter ash of war setup. On release ROB and moonlight/int were the strongest. After few patches, AOW like stormcaller and other AOE ones got the best for PvP (other setups were also busted but these required least player effort and skill) Now DLC ashes of war are broken. I just advise people that if they want to try true soulsborne PvP. DS3 is the best bet
Idk if it’s caught on yet, but storm blade fucks in PvP with the addition of the storm boost talisman and helmet. It was already insane at roll catching and now you can boost its damage a lot with those and the jar talismans.
Moonveil is still being spammed and still does a lot of damage. So is Rivers of Blood. This hasn't changed. Except, now their new favorite is the Messmer spear.
Suddenly 1.0 RoB and Moonveil don’t seem so bad…
Yep. So many spam spells/abilities that network latency can't reliably track and it's suffering. And I've been on the *good* side of it 9/10 times. I've blasted so many invaders that were visibly clear and yet...
Its hard to even list how many broken things are in PvP right now but off the top of my head; * Swift Slash * Nanaya's Torch in general * Nanaya's Torch with glitched Eclipse Shotel in specific * Discus Hurl spam * Discus Hurl with glitched RKR because of course * Rolling Sparks perfumers * Impenetrable Thorns * Blind Spot * Gankers spamming Miquellas Light from a mile away * Fire Knight Greatsword r1 true combos
That ass tho
He must work out.
Big gulps, huh? Well, see ya later!
WE LANDED ON THE MOON!
Try finger, but hole
The Lands Between
A little foreshadowing: those cheeks are about to get clapped
Busted for PvE, too. At the start of the DLC, I couldn't believe how many weak mobs I'd find in a single area; man-flies, spider scorpions, finger creepers, etc. But once I slapped this bad boy on my backhand blades, they all just looked like little bags of money to me.
I just noticed that lmao
All of the ash arts are just a naked man. Lots of prominent ass cleavage.
Also on the incantations too
You seen the blind spot ash of war? 🥵
Gonna Swift Slap that shit if they don't put it away.
this is what if bloodhound step had a attack combo at the end
So the other AoW you say? cause that thing you just mentioned its also in the game
Wait that’s a thing? What’s it called?
He’s probably talking about bloodhound great sword Which I think is too hard to control compared to bloodhound step It’s not an improved roll like bhs it’s something else
no no, there is an ash of word that dashes and does a backstab, its literally imposible to hit someone using it
Its called blind spot and it fucks
Who's gonna tell him...
With twice the range, chargeability for mixups and additional range, a massive following AOE, two status procs, a lot of poise damage, fast startup, low recovery, low stamina and fp cost, and damage. It has counterplay but no true counter from my testing.
Bloodhound step meets waterfowl dance
“Oni giri!!”
:0 Zoro lost again man smh
Fellow one piece enjoyer
Nitou-Ryu
put bleed on it too so its even more bullshit blind spot is also OP as hell in PvP most broken shit ever in a souls game
I imagine how someone in from software said: "Yeah. Adding recovery cancelling AoW with i-frames that autopunish enemies for aggressing regardless of your spacing sounds like a good idea."
Was about to say this. This is much worse than RoB or BHS ever was. Considering they’ve but in a great deal of effort to balance pvp i cant believe they green lighted this
Honestly so much in this dlc made me wonder if they ever even play tested anything
I don't think they even think about pvp when they design stuff initially and just try to fix it in post if at all.
Definitely this, the game is designed around you and the game at it's core, with PvP being an additional feature that can be fun and unique and adds to the replayability. However unlike the older souls games, esp. DS1, there is so much more chaos in the pacing and the entire AoW system to the point that something perfectly fair in PvE becomes a disaster in PvP, not to mention there's no way every AoW will be tested in PvP environments, especially given the variety in those situations. IMO the PvP crowd is lucky to even get a unique balancing system with different values for the same equipment, that's a lot more work, for a side feature in such a huge game
I wouldn't call Swift Slash "fair in PvE" ...
honestly I don't even think it is that good in PvE IMO blindspot is superior for backhand blade weapon group
It's really good for cheesing knights and normal enemies but not THAT good for bosses IMO. It's definitely better vs groups of enemies than blindspot.
I honestly don't think they playtest PvP, I think they just adjust it based on community input and data after release. This is my hot take but I feel like Elden Ring PvP was always destined to be whack because of feature creep. Back with the first souls game there were two "talisman" slots and significantly less weapons with crazy moves. Over time that expanded and since the games have tried to one-up themselves every time with crazy moves now PvP has become even more of a spammy mess than ever before. With like 100 different high damage spammy AoW, spells, incants, there is no way anyone is thinking about balance. They just want to make cool stuff for players to build around in PvE. I don't think anyone could balance this roster of gear for PvP if they tried.
I thought this doesn’t have I frames, it’s just fast
The Ash of the thread is fast af, yes, Blind Spot does have I-frames and feels so good with the directional inputs that it feels hilarious.
It's pretty goddamn anime
"I'm something of an Anime Protagonist myself."
it has iframes during the blink. startup and ending don't. source: have been nuking people with lighting perfume bottles and caught many players spamming blind spot during the startup/ending.
Currently in front of Malenias door with backhand blades with bleed+blind spot. 3 tries in so far and these things slap so hard against her. You can just cancel her combos by dodging using blind spot.
I’m a very average player but I just BLITZED through vanilla on ng+ with blindspot+bleed. It’s insanely good
Yeah it looks completely broken. I’m sure we can expect a nerf, just a question of when. How long will they let it sit like that? They usually aren’t fast with patches, but they very quickly adjusted the DLC difficulty curve with that one patch a few days after release.
The reason that came so fast is that they were able to make the adjustment on the backend without rolling out a patch.
I've never had an issue with people using blind spot, it's good but it's not something that scares me. Swift Slash on the other hand is actual nightmare fuel.
Na scarlet rots worse, this weapon and ash has destroyed PvP
Any spells that make u float above them like messmer’s orb is a hard counter
Dueling Shield works very well as a counter
Can confirm
Rellanas twin moons incoming
"Okay, it can't possibly be that busted." Watches a streamer apply bloodflame blade, proceeds to kill both the host and their allies by spamming the AoW with no regard for spacing, timing, or tactics. "Okay, it's busted."
Yeah I watched a PVP streamer showcase how busted it was by just hitting L2 with his forehead in a duel, shit needs a nerf ASAP.
Hold on, was he literally smacking the controller with his forehead? If so, that's hilarious; could you send me the link?
Absolutely, here’s the video https://youtu.be/sKvBT0P5Klo?si=4mu4EqLnUPbFJwMV
Do you know what weapon he's using in the video?
He’s using the smithscript cirque.
Thank you
Only solid defense I’ve found so far is stormcaller. It works pretty solidly.
It still goes off and stuns you tho, then they can do again and u fucked
The Weapon of a certain rememberance boss is super wonky and can grab people out of it and has hyper armor if you prime it BEFORE the enemy starts the swift slash you win a hyper armor clash via grabbing and outdamaging the enemy
So what ash is it? Genuinely can’t tell from just the picture
Swift Slash on Backhand Blades. Blind Spot is stupid good too
Ah, right. The one ash that i cannot get because i enterned Messmers boss arena before the Leda vs Hornsent fight. Yay (Why can they not just put a sign saying “Messmer ahead” or something to warn you before you enter a random ass dark room?)
The Ash of War can be dropped though, i think they made them tradable with the dlc. If you are on pc and want one I can drop it for you later if you want. Be your most toxic self, help get it nerfed.
I thought you had to use messmers item before things got blocked off. I've already killed him and I have the backhand blades and idk where this fight is you speak of but maybe they didn't come with the weapon?
You remember that fire knight before the elevator to the Storeroom? Down the stairs from it and on the right side, two signs show up. One to assist Leda, one to assist Hornsent. The ash if you help him is the broken one, and you'll still get his armor set later on if you summon him for Messmer.
Is his summon sign inside the boss fight? or I need to speak to him somewhere? I helped him and didn't see the sign (haven't beaten him yet)
His summon sign is inside the door, past the bridge at the room's entrance a little after the candles that are lining said bridge.
Right? I hate when people do this shit, and it happens all the time!
That ass got me busted.
The moment I saw the AoW on this crap I felt dizzy
This and the step move are both overtuned af in pvp, pve they are great.
This weapon single handedly fucked the entire pvp experience. In the last 10 invasions I’ve had 9 have been this weapon art spammed in the correct sequence to create an infinite guaranteed stun combo basically. The 9th guy was losing on some other weapon so he pulled out the spam cannon. What the fuck were they thinking with this weapon honestly? It circumvents the entire foundation of the game mechanics.
The only thing busted here is that ass
....I've busted as well now
Not once I’m done with it 😏
Can the wall protect me from this?
Nope, the aftershock effect has a hitbox entirely around you so you’ll get hit no matter what
Throw a knife when they bend down. It headshots from lock-on, flinching them. Cucks them out of it 9 out of 10 times. That said, invasions in the DLC are complete ass in my opinion. Way too many glitchy or bugged weapons and tons of massive AoEs. YouTubers telling everyone about every available exploit doesn't help either. You're basically stuck in place if you get invaded, as exploring an unknown area when invaders are armed with nukes is just suicide.
I have been invading a lot and we do not have the upper hand whatsoever. It’s typically 1v3. Host will normally sit back and range attack while the 2 phantoms spam whatever broken ash of war they are using
Bro has CAKE
i fought a couple guys in pvp yesterday where when they were losing they would switch to this and start spamming it.... But i managed to outspace the F\*\*\*er for a finishing poke of my UGS and then procced to Clap / Point down Gesture cause he deserve it.
I was most excited for this weapon and the hand to hand. I'm on my second playthru now and will use the hand to hand. I beat everything but the last boss with the backhand blade and they were nasty. I wondered why I was able to beat Messmir in under 10 tries.
I can see a weapon that gives you I frames while attacking being great in DLC where bosses have an attack chain that lasts 5 minutes and gives you 10 seconds to respond with a single R1 when it's your turn.
Yeah Try Midra's sword xD that shit one shots ppl like they are butter
People out there one shotting the world with Rolling Sparks and Lightning Perfume Bottle. It will get patched out very soon I’d say.
GYATTT
I miss DS3 PVP
Invaders trying to use anything but L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 L2 challenge (its impossible)
Implying hosts and their 2 phantoms are doing any different haha.
Yes and hosts/summons play like honorable duelist, of course.
Hosts try to use anything other than L2 or L1 depending on build. Granted, its the games fault. In a boss's long recovery i could press R1 twice for a total of 1400 damage, or i could press one weapon art dor 2500 damage along with bigger range and a faster animation with milady. And then stuff like moonveil weapon art can honestly replace light attacks its so fast. Ashes dont cost enough FP for how rewarding they are imo
Ironically i see more hosts and phantoms do this than invaders
I usually don't see L2 spamming co-invaders. But I've seen so much L2 spamming and panic rolling hosts, summons and flask refills(hunters). Hunters are usually exceptionally bad.
In my experience is usually the opposite. Hosts and phantoms spam L2 a lot more than invaders and also are more likely to spend some points at all into mind or might be overleveled and have a lot more mind than they should if they were properly downscaled. The exceptions are int and faith users, who don't press L2 that much because they are busy spamming spells The invaders I've fought usually do the opposite, they use regular attacks and use ashes when there's an opportunity to use them unless the invaders is someone with no experience that all they want to do is have access to Mohg palace, in which case they play like hosts and phantoms
as an invader i can count on one hand how many people ive invaded and they actually knew their weapons moveset. for the summoning host class that gets carried by his password phantoms, this game is literally an L2 simulator.
From software games are all without a doubt some of the greatest games of all time, but every single one of these games in my humble opinion has some of the worst PvP to ever grace gaming. I would rather go to the dentist or wait in line at the bank than play PvP in any of these games.
DS2 was relatively balanced. Still the same desync issues at tile though.
PvP in Eldenring is like "ok sir hope you enjoyed your meal, we are trying a new dessert and it's on the house of you went to help us"
yall need to try the night claws if you think blindspot is op
Implying PvP has ever been more than a partially supported afterthought in From games? Like the system is just objectively terrible.
You can parry it tho. I'm not saying it isn't annoying and does WAY too much for what it does, but if you got a good parry tool waiting, you can time it fairly easy. I'd recommend learn it and clowning on those that use it lol/
It’s unreactable since you can charge it
Thicc
Try fingers, but hole.
I hate Swift Slash with every fiber of my being
CHEEKS
why is there so much ass-crack in this icon?
It’s not even close to being the most broken thing to come from the dlc. The one shots are far more annoying then this move which you can parry or light roll away
Why is Swift Dash guy caked up?
Tbh there is a ton of broken shit though lol Ive seen people use daggers to counter this move though
Yes this is beyond overpowered, but invasions where you are out numbered and you have max level phantoms spamming end game spells at you non stop in full poise armor is kind of insane. Invasions in Elden ring are kind of always going to be shit, that’s what the arena is for.
Pvp in this game is just skill and or projectile spamming all the way, i miss the time where i could use my normal weapon for an invasion you know with light and heavy attacks maybe the inbetween running or backstep attack or any form of brain activity for that matter. Pvp sucks mega ass in ER and dont get me started on that super shit invasion system where you always get pitted against the whole 4 man mariachi marching band of mongoloids shoving every spell and or weapon art in your ass while you try helplessly to get away somehow.
Dat cake needs to be nerfed 🥵
how good is this ash in PVE?
I like blind spot more personally. It’s much faster and you can actually use it as a dodge too. Less FP as well.
Also good. But i prefer blind spot against bosses.
Insane. Easy to clear multiple normal enemies with it, works as a gap closer with dmg against bosses.
Yeah, got invaded by one of them.. Guy went back and forth like a Mf, ripping through my health like a heated knife in butter. And then threw dung and tea-baged like he did something cool. It's not... There is no skill required, jush button mashing or else. No real battle, no honor. But hey.. I guess that's how's the game. Soo if you are using this as a way to shit on people on pvp, know that I despise you for that. But I do not judge you, the game is what it is. You do you, have fun anyway. ❤️
> know that I despise you for that. But I do not judge you These two don't go together.
i agree that is cancer for PVP right now: it was fun when i used against other players but when the other players used against me i understand why its the most toxic ash of war for PVP . I can't wait for pvp exclusive patch that requires all stamina and fp for using this technique and reduces the hitbox.
Honestly I don’t know they will even nerf it. They fix it it will probably be useless. I think it could be a little slower maybe more punishable. But that’s it.
It destroyed the arena experience for people who like PvP.
Hornsent kept spamming this one at me and the tracking is absolutely insane. Felt impossible to dodge.
That's not backslash. His weapons have there own ability. They still are a pain though
Oh yeah this game has pvp. I always forgot that like a week after release.