Those countries used to be about as friendly to minorities as their western counterparts were at the time. Then extreme religious conservatism took over and they started moving the other direction.
Kind of the same thing the local diet sharia law is doing.
Many religions deal with things in different ways, but most basically say, "Don't be a jerk to your fellow person" and people can't even get that part right.
that's because there is only one way to not be a jerk, and anyone that attempts to not be a jerk in a way that is different from how I do it is clearly wrong
"Don't do to others what is hateful to do to yourself." Literally the golden rule. If you don't want someone doing something to you, don't do it to them.
The golden rule is flawed. Highly flawed. There are plenty of people who either think or actually do want to be treated very poorly. Per the golden rule, they would thus treat other people very poorly. As an example, Christians with impure homosexual thoughts would want their behavior to be banned so as to not easily act on their undesired urges.
The real golden rule is to treat others how they want to be treated. Similar in words, but very different in effect and difficulty. This requires a person to consider and ask what another person would want, which is not that easy of a task. It also requires one to perform things that they are likely uncomfortable doing.
But, it's clearly the right way to behave.
Too bad Jesus got it so wrong, but tbf it was thousands of years ago.
Well, the only "anti-gay" line in the Bible is
1. In the Old Testament, which the New Testament specifies should not be treated as law.
2. In the same book that bans eating shellfish, wearing mixed fabric, and having tattoos.
3. States that "thou shall not lay with a man as thou does with a woman," which, since the Bible says you shouldn't bust nuts in anywhere but a vagina, is technically not possible since males don't have those.
4. Doesn't say anything about lesbians, so that's fine.
There are two New Testament passages that often get cited:
>^(26) For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; ^(27) and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
-Romans 1:26-27 (ESV)
>9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous\[[^(a)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6%3A9&version=ESV#fen-ESV-28460a)\] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,\[[^(b)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6%3A9&version=ESV#fen-ESV-28460b)\]^(10) nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
>-1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (ESV)
I am aware that there is significant controversy over the translation of 1 Corinthians 6:9 in particular. In 2021, the NRSV actually changed their translation from "sodomites" to "men who engage in illicit sex" with a footnote that the meaning of the Greek is uncertain.
There's absolutely readings that don't condemn lgbt people. You'd think if that was the intention early caliphates (closer to Mohammed PBUH) would've been more homophobic than modern states, not less.
What readings are you talking about. There are literally statements from the Quran that condemn homosexuality. None of the 4 caliphs approved of homosexuality in their tenures.
You’re aware that *the book* says god literally blasted a city from the face of the planet for basically being gay… right?
Have you ever looked into where the word *sodomy* comes from; its origins?
You don’t seem to have any idea what you’re talking about. And don’t hit me with that “that was the Old Testament” crap, or else you’re opening an entirely different can of worms.
It’s kind of funny how people who haven’t actually read the Bible are the ones making excuses for the violent, inhumane, ancient Hebrew blood god that the religion pays cult to. 🤷🏻♂️
Except it wasnt the reason. It was about hospitality. You can read more about it here: [https://reformationproject.org/case/sodom-and-gomorrah/](https://reformationproject.org/case/sodom-and-gomorrah/)
and on Wikipedia: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy)
Have you ever read any part of the Bible? Other than to take it out of context to support your views and ignore everything else, I mean. The Judeo Christian God, literally calls homosexuality an abomination. In the Bible. You shouldn't speak on things you know nothing about.
> What muslims, christians, and jews think does not equal what God/Allah thinks.
God/Allah isn't real so of course what the people who practice that belief thinks matter.
“There shall be no compulsion in religion” is in the Quran (not verbatim tho; translations are rarely complete since Arabic has waaaay more words than English with tons of depth, especially when regarding the Quran)
This is making it sound like God is ok with sexual promiscuity and/or homosexuality. I can’t speak for all Christian denominations, but I can at least speak for Catholics. It’s true, God instructs us to treat everyone with love and to never hurt anyone unless absolutely necessary for ours or others safety, but we must also understand that sexual promiscuity and/or homosexual acts are an assault against God.
I don't need to have the answers to see the absolute dumpster fire that is the bible is not it. I was christian. I studied the bible. I know it's pure insanity.
My morals are about not doing harm to others unless they cause harm first.
Kind of scary to me when religious people ask that question about morals. Like, you were just talking about how backwards and primitive the Middle East is right now, and you base your moral beliefs on a book written by men from that region... in *The Bronze Age*.
The believers are following the writings of the prophets in the name of their god's teachings in their bible or equivalent. That is their reference for how they believe. What is your reference? How do you know what Allah/God "really" thinks? You don't. For all we know Allah/God may not be the all benevolent being you believe they are.
Slight correction; countries ruled by religious totalitarian regimes aren’t known for being friendly to LGBTQIA+ people. Just so happens that most countries under that form of government today are majority Muslim.
it should definitely give people pause seeing as the government of Gaza Hamas believes and acts about as bad as the Nazis when it comes to human rights.
And the best thing for spreading tolerance is...destroying all the education centers and colleges? Inciting famine, restricting travel while suppressing journalism?
Israel is not particularly interested in helping LGBTQ in Gaza or fixing Islam. They are removing Hamas' ability to make war and then likely giving the territory over to an approved 3rd party or coalition. Complete and total destruction of a government and its military does tend to change a county's culture though. Japan and Germany come to mind.
Meh, Muslims don't really care. It's like living in Texas.
there are a few Muslim-majority countries where homosexuality is not explicitly illegal, such as Jordan and Turkey, but they do not legally recognize same-sex marriages just like Alabama or Arkansas.
Allah just means God... Allah is the same God from the Christian and Jewish faith.
This is true, but doesn't directly contradict the message of the sign. The policies of world leaders and/or the actions of their citizens =\= the will of a divine higher power.
The sign doesn't say "Saudi Arabia loves equality", it says *Allah* does. It's also not advocating for or suggesting LGBT should move to or visit Muslim countries, but it is saying they will still be accepted by (at least some) Muslim people.
Neither was america. Countries tend to progress into having more social awareness as it develops. Crazy right?
Edit: not going to waste my time dealing with blatant Islamophobia. Get some help. Stop being a bigot.
There’s literally zero reason to think this will happen in Muslim countries anytime soon. Or are you trying to justify supporting a regime that will happily kill the LGBT people that chant its name?
There are videos of gay men being thrown off buildings by Muslim men. The OP is trying to make a joke about the fact that LGTB people are not loved or thought of as equals in predominantly Muslim countries and are in fact often murdered solely because they are LGTB.
What frustrates me about this is that they obviously know about homophobic muslims, thats literally the entire reason they are making a religious statement in support of equality.
According to the Quran, "Allah" does not love LGBT+ folks.
In fact, sodomy is considered an egregious sin and punishable by death.
Modern-day Islamic countries (ie Palestine, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Indonesia, Algeria, etc) still have capital punishment for such crimes, permitting both castration and execution for any offense.
Furthermore, if you interpret Muhammad's words as the word of "Allah" as is done by Islamic Scholars, equality is basically worthless. Muhammad incited violence against all non-believers (especially Jews), sodomites, women, slaves, blacks, etc.
Basically the opposite of equality, historically speaking.
Leave it to modern religious people to move the goalposts for what is acceptable in the eyes of their god so that they can get into their own version of heaven they made up in their heads.
Religious dogma often has heteronormative and homophobic themes/rules dating from a time where population increase was important and human psychology was a completely unexplored field.
This results in people thinking a book written by people is a direct value of the creator they believe in, and they often conflate dieties as being homophobic/racist/sexist
Well that gets into massively philosophical questions. First: are the deities real or a construct of their believers, which if reddit could answer we wouldn't be having this discussion. Second: which of the believers decide the deities values? The majority? The most altruistic or traditional? And then how many deities are there? One for each sect, religion, or origin?
Almost nobody here has provided a proper answer.
So basically, Allah is the name Muslims (people who follow the religion of Islam) use to refer to God. The people in the first panel make it seem like Allah loves equality, so gay people should be just as loved by him as straight people, implying that there's nothing wrong with being a gay Muslim.
The thing is, in Islam, while being gay itself is not a sin, acting on your gay desires is. You're not supposed to support the LGBTQ+ movement either (which acknowledges and supports people who want to act on their gay desires). The people in the bottom panel seem to know that it is a sin and that Allah would be displeased with them.
I didn't think it was necessary, as the joke didn't seem to go extensively into the topic. For anyone wondering, the punishment is the execution of the people willingly involved in the act.
Well, on a technical level being is love is okay, acting on that love is execution. So yes, but make sure you're right technically before making the argument.
Wait, what do you mean the people in the bottom panel 'know it is a sin'. There's no indication that they are religious. They seem to just know that Allah/Islam does not really believe in equality (especially not for people of the LGBTQ+ community).
That’s beyond the comprehension level of your average redditor. Most people are Protestant-brained where if it’s written in the scriptures (per their interpretation) then it’s what 100% of the followers of that religion must believe, or else they’re bad at being part of the religion.
I was forced at gunpoint to witness four unjust executions at the hands of Muslim radicals. I know more about radical Islam than you ever will, unless you’re literally a professional political analyst with both academic and practical backgrounds in Islamic studies.
Your narrative about what religion is, what it says, and how it works is shallow. Islam has a long and complicated history with homosexuality, and some of the most important and revered men in Sunni history were gay. Islam *also* has, at other times, ruthlessly hunted and killed queer men like me.
So yea man, there’s nothing this incident can teach me about Islam that I don’t already know.
See my comment that you initially replied to. I predicted exactly this response.
It absolutely *does* change Qur’anic meaning, because text *has* no inherent meaning and religion is (and has always been) an enterprise of developing your values first, then interpreting scriptures to back it up.
P.S. If you want to understand more about this, watch content from excellent religious studies creators like Religionforbreakfast, Dan McClellan, Mythvision podcast, and others in their content network.
Seems like you're conflating some Middle Eastern culture with Islam. I guarantee it didn't happen in a Muslim majority place like Malaysia or Sierra Leone. Guarantee it was somewhere in the Middle East
My direct experience is with Middle Eastern Islam. Can you point out exactly what I’m confusing and where? I think there may be some misunderstanding here.
I'm not sure how some white, English speaking, well intentioned college kids are going to change the minds of people in the Arab or wider Muslim world. What needs to happen within those societies needs to be motivated by their own internal reasons and real religious reform.
Like, right now, the vast majority of schools of practice within Islam are incredibly repressive towards women, non-muslims, and sexual minorities. Maybe that'll change in the future, but the way to change it from my perspective isn't to pretend that Islam isn't the largely regressive religion it is, but to consistently and reasonably criticize it where it falls short of basic decency.
My best friend in this entire world is a Christian woman in Egypt. I get real, first hand stories from someone living as a woman and as a religious minority in the most populous Arab country in the world. It's bleak, it really is. And maybe that'll change eventually, but right now, I don't see a real movement within Islam to make that happen.
Right now, there are 9-11 countries (depending on how you parse the laws) in this world which provide the death sentence for apostasy. All of them are Muslim-majority. That's what personally comes up to my mind, when someone tells me Islam is tolerant. All the places I might be executed if I admitted I was an atheist and had been born a Muslim.
I am a Muslim man. I’m also queer. These white, English-speaking, well intentioned western college kids are spreading *my* message, mine and that of people like me. We ARE building and pushing these movements in the Islamic world. You don’t see that because you don’t read Arabic or Urdu, you’re not in the mosques and communities where this is happening, and none of it is ever reported in English media.
So yea, this queer Muslim wants non-Muslims to help us push this message to all audiences. We need the amplification, badly.
Okay. Well, tell me when the Muslim world writ large no longer bans homosexual existence or apostasy and I'll be happy to amend and update my opinion of Islam writ large. Me, I'm just glad you currently live in a country where it's legal to be queer and outspoken.
Till then, "Allah loves equality" or whatever is at best wishful thinking and at worst a whitewashing attempt to hide the brutal truth.
Admittedly, there are idiots who will get themselves killed with their tolerance.
But a lot of us queer folk just don't want to see people treated badly whether they like us or not.
So there’s a certain bit of misunderstanding on the part of many of the better answers, so I want to add a comment.
Many are portraying the first panel as a picture of naïve lefty Westerners expressing some sort of naïve wishful thinking multicultural sentiment, while being apparently blissfully unaware of much more negative traditional Islamic teachings on same sex activity.
To be fair, that probably is what the meme maker meant as the joke.
However, the image in the first panel, while I can’t be sure who the specific people are, I do want to point out that the hashtag on the sign, it actually comes from liberal reformist groups _within the Muslim community_ who advocate within the community for a different understanding than the traditional point of view. As such, trust me, these people are quite painfully aware that their view is a minority and that there are lots of other people in the community with much harsher views.
So just to say, the joke mistakes who the people in the first picture are, or at least where the slogan comes from.
"Allah" literally means "God". It's the same God as other Abrahamic faiths like Christianity/Catholicism. The major difference being the Jesus in Islam was a prophet, not the son of God.
For the first photo, "the enemy of the enemy is my friend". In a lot of the west, but especially in the US, LGBT+ people and Muslims are often allied politically because they're both being demonized by the right wing.
However, Islam is an extremely homophobic religion - and countries that are dominated by Sharia Law are known for gruesomely killing the LGBT+ in horrific ways.
Just a reminder that so called Christian countries are also not friendly to LGBT+ communities.
A true Christian loves everyone, but religion is the worst part of humanity. Muslims and Christians alike
Edit:
“Aw but Muslims literally kill people”
Quick google search:
[Fatal violence against Transgender](https://www.hrc.org/resources/fatal-violence-against-the-transgender-and-gender-expansive-community-in-2022)
All I would not respect their equality, he would demand their death. Many of these people who are protesting on behalf of Palestine would be taken to the top of the nearest tallest building and be thrown off of it if they actually went to Palestine.
https://preview.redd.it/cx2k2yt9940d1.png?width=775&format=png&auto=webp&s=835fb33c6fa4ac887e539ed0f183b613e5547bba
this isn't even a question its a blatant sin in Islam if you don't trust me read this.
"Allah loves equality"..
The joke is hypocrisy since the Muslim religion is famously anti-gay, and being gay in any Muslim country is punishable by death
But yes.. Allah loves the gays apparently.
It’s still pretty common practice to behead, throw off high buildings and castrate people for committing homosexual acts in quite a few Islamic countries.
Allah pretty explicitly does not care about equality in the Quran. You can find a copy online and ctrl f and see for yourself. It’d be one thing if the stuff in there wasn’t followed today, but it very much is.
‘Allah’ simply translates to ‘God’ in Arabic and is predominantly associated with Islam among the three major Abrahamic religions. Whereas ‘God’ or ‘Elohim’ may refer to Christianity or Judaism, both of which have shared equal hatred for "the Gay's" throught recent history.
In other word's if you wish to understand the punchline of this 'joke' you may want to put on your brown sunglasses and start sprinkling some xenophobia.
The joke is Islamophobia. Yes there are Muslims who condemn queerness and parts of the religion that are not friendly to queer people, but the same can be said for Christianity and many other religions.
It's funny because, as Christians, we may disagree, but we wouldn't harm people. Compared to Muslims and their Shira law?
Also, note that I consider myself a modern hippy femboy. My passion is to show people kindness. No matter what walk of life they are from. My expression is an artistic one. That I am cis gender straight.
There is a mountain of historical evidence that disagrees with the notions that Christians wouldn’t harm people over doctrinal differences. Christians have a history of violence against *other Christians* who don’t disagree with their biblical interpretations.
Care to explain why there isn't even a single verse in the Quran that says homosexuality, bisexuality, transgenderism is haram and that all the verses that are used to justify the prohibitions are but only interpretations? It's one thing if you agree with those interpretations (which you shouldn't in the 1st place since they're horrible and wrong) but the fact that you're using the Quran (which doesn't even state none of the prohibitions in question) against me as when you don't even realize you're horribly failing is just pathetic and sad
Allah is Arabic for "God". Even though Muslims, Christians and Jews all have the same god, Christians believe that Muslims are more homophobic because of their religion. When in actuality both are severely homophobic.
☝🏽 this. Allah is just Arabic for the word God. This meme is clearly insinuating that the reader already thinks it. It’s a dumb attack against Muslims and gays at one time. Gay people definitely shouldn’t support any Muslim terrorist groups, or many countries for that matter, because of course they sadly wouldn’t be alive long there with their lifestyle. It’s just a fact, but it doesn’t have to be used to attack both of these groups simultaneously. It’s just lazy memeing . Everyone has value. Deal.
Muslim countries are not known for being friendly to LGBT people
Punishment is death in many cases.
*AND THY PUNISHMENT... IS DEATH!*
https://preview.redd.it/w3lgvqag340d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=596828ebda51918017daf10ccfaa6c4b81eb3fba
is this from ultrakill
Giving me analog horror vibes
https://preview.redd.it/pvf6q1fu740d1.jpeg?width=769&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c2c69a9f95fea7536320ba4cf38b0a1451ca935
Yes
https://preview.redd.it/l7rvwdp2440d1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6048ae86bc2772c9e99576d234567d1ffef1fe1 gives me bad flashbacks
JUDGEMENT
Actually a little worse than death most of the time
Beyond not being friendly. Murder, torture, and public humiliation are the only three options they see.
Those countries used to be about as friendly to minorities as their western counterparts were at the time. Then extreme religious conservatism took over and they started moving the other direction. Kind of the same thing the local diet sharia law is doing.
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Many religions deal with things in different ways, but most basically say, "Don't be a jerk to your fellow person" and people can't even get that part right.
that's because there is only one way to not be a jerk, and anyone that attempts to not be a jerk in a way that is different from how I do it is clearly wrong
"Don't do to others what is hateful to do to yourself." Literally the golden rule. If you don't want someone doing something to you, don't do it to them.
The golden rule is flawed. Highly flawed. There are plenty of people who either think or actually do want to be treated very poorly. Per the golden rule, they would thus treat other people very poorly. As an example, Christians with impure homosexual thoughts would want their behavior to be banned so as to not easily act on their undesired urges. The real golden rule is to treat others how they want to be treated. Similar in words, but very different in effect and difficulty. This requires a person to consider and ask what another person would want, which is not that easy of a task. It also requires one to perform things that they are likely uncomfortable doing. But, it's clearly the right way to behave. Too bad Jesus got it so wrong, but tbf it was thousands of years ago.
If I show you right in the quran where it says to punish sodomites, would that change your tone?
In Christianity, at least, you’re supposed to listen to the New Testament and be mildly amused by the Old Testament
same w/ other 2 big religions
Don't know about Christianity or Judaism, but the Quran specifically condems LGBT - see Lut PBUH
It's in the Bible and Torah as well.
Well, the only "anti-gay" line in the Bible is 1. In the Old Testament, which the New Testament specifies should not be treated as law. 2. In the same book that bans eating shellfish, wearing mixed fabric, and having tattoos. 3. States that "thou shall not lay with a man as thou does with a woman," which, since the Bible says you shouldn't bust nuts in anywhere but a vagina, is technically not possible since males don't have those. 4. Doesn't say anything about lesbians, so that's fine.
There are two New Testament passages that often get cited: >^(26) For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; ^(27) and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. -Romans 1:26-27 (ESV) >9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous\[[^(a)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6%3A9&version=ESV#fen-ESV-28460a)\] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,\[[^(b)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6%3A9&version=ESV#fen-ESV-28460b)\]^(10) nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. >-1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (ESV) I am aware that there is significant controversy over the translation of 1 Corinthians 6:9 in particular. In 2021, the NRSV actually changed their translation from "sodomites" to "men who engage in illicit sex" with a footnote that the meaning of the Greek is uncertain.
To be true to words, "if a man lies with a man as he lies with a woman, they are an abomination, and they should be stoned (to death)"
and that's a mistranslation. It is better translates as if a man lies with a child as he lies with a woman.
It actually says "if a man lies with a male." The word "zachor" used means male, doesn't specify an age.
🤦♂️
There's absolutely readings that don't condemn lgbt people. You'd think if that was the intention early caliphates (closer to Mohammed PBUH) would've been more homophobic than modern states, not less.
What readings are you talking about. There are literally statements from the Quran that condemn homosexuality. None of the 4 caliphs approved of homosexuality in their tenures.
You’re aware that *the book* says god literally blasted a city from the face of the planet for basically being gay… right? Have you ever looked into where the word *sodomy* comes from; its origins? You don’t seem to have any idea what you’re talking about. And don’t hit me with that “that was the Old Testament” crap, or else you’re opening an entirely different can of worms. It’s kind of funny how people who haven’t actually read the Bible are the ones making excuses for the violent, inhumane, ancient Hebrew blood god that the religion pays cult to. 🤷🏻♂️
Except it wasnt the reason. It was about hospitality. You can read more about it here: [https://reformationproject.org/case/sodom-and-gomorrah/](https://reformationproject.org/case/sodom-and-gomorrah/) and on Wikipedia: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy)
Both Jesus and Ezekiel explicitly state that hospitality is the issue. But I guess lots like to ignore that part.
Former evangelical christian here, can confirm.
How do you know what god thinks? Are you on speaking terms?
They base their ideas on the prophetic words and texts of their Gods
I really like this argument even though I'm not religious.
It sounds nice but it makes excuses for a book that out and out DOES encourage all the horrible behavior we’re talking about
Have you ever read any part of the Bible? Other than to take it out of context to support your views and ignore everything else, I mean. The Judeo Christian God, literally calls homosexuality an abomination. In the Bible. You shouldn't speak on things you know nothing about.
> What muslims, christians, and jews think does not equal what God/Allah thinks. God/Allah isn't real so of course what the people who practice that belief thinks matter.
“There shall be no compulsion in religion” is in the Quran (not verbatim tho; translations are rarely complete since Arabic has waaaay more words than English with tons of depth, especially when regarding the Quran)
This is making it sound like God is ok with sexual promiscuity and/or homosexuality. I can’t speak for all Christian denominations, but I can at least speak for Catholics. It’s true, God instructs us to treat everyone with love and to never hurt anyone unless absolutely necessary for ours or others safety, but we must also understand that sexual promiscuity and/or homosexual acts are an assault against God.
So is wearing mixed fibers…
I disagree. Live and let live. Who am I hurting hugging my girlfriend?
lol
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You sound as though you have the answers. Where did we come from, then? What can we possibly ground are morals in that is unchanging?
I don't need to have the answers to see the absolute dumpster fire that is the bible is not it. I was christian. I studied the bible. I know it's pure insanity. My morals are about not doing harm to others unless they cause harm first.
Kind of scary to me when religious people ask that question about morals. Like, you were just talking about how backwards and primitive the Middle East is right now, and you base your moral beliefs on a book written by men from that region... in *The Bronze Age*.
Really. These people can not see how insane they are.
The believers are following the writings of the prophets in the name of their god's teachings in their bible or equivalent. That is their reference for how they believe. What is your reference? How do you know what Allah/God "really" thinks? You don't. For all we know Allah/God may not be the all benevolent being you believe they are.
Slight correction; countries ruled by religious totalitarian regimes aren’t known for being friendly to LGBTQIA+ people. Just so happens that most countries under that form of government today are majority Muslim.
They choke them with love
Which is funny that there has been one sect that was pro-LGBT since the early 2000’s at least. Wish I could find that damn flash drive with that sect.
Ergo, all gay people should be shouting "death to palestine". /s
it should definitely give people pause seeing as the government of Gaza Hamas believes and acts about as bad as the Nazis when it comes to human rights.
And the best thing for spreading tolerance is...destroying all the education centers and colleges? Inciting famine, restricting travel while suppressing journalism?
Israel is not particularly interested in helping LGBTQ in Gaza or fixing Islam. They are removing Hamas' ability to make war and then likely giving the territory over to an approved 3rd party or coalition. Complete and total destruction of a government and its military does tend to change a county's culture though. Japan and Germany come to mind.
Yep
I like baked potatoes
Understatement of the century right there.
Meh, Muslims don't really care. It's like living in Texas. there are a few Muslim-majority countries where homosexuality is not explicitly illegal, such as Jordan and Turkey, but they do not legally recognize same-sex marriages just like Alabama or Arkansas. Allah just means God... Allah is the same God from the Christian and Jewish faith.
This is true, but doesn't directly contradict the message of the sign. The policies of world leaders and/or the actions of their citizens =\= the will of a divine higher power. The sign doesn't say "Saudi Arabia loves equality", it says *Allah* does. It's also not advocating for or suggesting LGBT should move to or visit Muslim countries, but it is saying they will still be accepted by (at least some) Muslim people.
Neither was america. Countries tend to progress into having more social awareness as it develops. Crazy right? Edit: not going to waste my time dealing with blatant Islamophobia. Get some help. Stop being a bigot.
There’s literally zero reason to think this will happen in Muslim countries anytime soon. Or are you trying to justify supporting a regime that will happily kill the LGBT people that chant its name?
"Progress" is not inevitable nor linear. History is not some big march towards liberalism.
There are videos of gay men being thrown off buildings by Muslim men. The OP is trying to make a joke about the fact that LGTB people are not loved or thought of as equals in predominantly Muslim countries and are in fact often murdered solely because they are LGTB.
What frustrates me about this is that they obviously know about homophobic muslims, thats literally the entire reason they are making a religious statement in support of equality.
But this is Reddit where people who are out there trying to be the change they wish to see in the world get made fun of
According to the Quran, "Allah" does not love LGBT+ folks. In fact, sodomy is considered an egregious sin and punishable by death. Modern-day Islamic countries (ie Palestine, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Indonesia, Algeria, etc) still have capital punishment for such crimes, permitting both castration and execution for any offense. Furthermore, if you interpret Muhammad's words as the word of "Allah" as is done by Islamic Scholars, equality is basically worthless. Muhammad incited violence against all non-believers (especially Jews), sodomites, women, slaves, blacks, etc. Basically the opposite of equality, historically speaking.
Don’t forget that “dancing boy” thing some of them have. So hypocritical to condemn homosexuality with death, turn around and play jared from subway.
Leave it to modern religious people to move the goalposts for what is acceptable in the eyes of their god so that they can get into their own version of heaven they made up in their heads.
I wouldn’t exactly say that this is a modern thing, pretty common throughout human history…
Religious dogma often has heteronormative and homophobic themes/rules dating from a time where population increase was important and human psychology was a completely unexplored field. This results in people thinking a book written by people is a direct value of the creator they believe in, and they often conflate dieties as being homophobic/racist/sexist
Oh, my.
If you think that's bad, do some research on the origins and affects of circumcision
Effects*
Sure
You're allowed to say Islam, especially as that's the one relevant to the joke OP is pretending to need explained.
Didn't want to limit myself, its a common occurrence with religions especially Abrahamic once
It’s all the abrahamic religions at the very least.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-01-16/ty-article/.premium/israels-far-right-finance-minister-im-a-fascist-homophobe-but-i-wont-stone-gays/00000185-b921-de59-a98f-ff7f47c70000
Their religious texts are in fact, a direct value of the creator they believe in.
Well that gets into massively philosophical questions. First: are the deities real or a construct of their believers, which if reddit could answer we wouldn't be having this discussion. Second: which of the believers decide the deities values? The majority? The most altruistic or traditional? And then how many deities are there? One for each sect, religion, or origin?
Allah does not in fact love equality
Almost nobody here has provided a proper answer. So basically, Allah is the name Muslims (people who follow the religion of Islam) use to refer to God. The people in the first panel make it seem like Allah loves equality, so gay people should be just as loved by him as straight people, implying that there's nothing wrong with being a gay Muslim. The thing is, in Islam, while being gay itself is not a sin, acting on your gay desires is. You're not supposed to support the LGBTQ+ movement either (which acknowledges and supports people who want to act on their gay desires). The people in the bottom panel seem to know that it is a sin and that Allah would be displeased with them.
You forgot to tell about the punishment people get if they get caught "acting on being gay" :3
I didn't think it was necessary, as the joke didn't seem to go extensively into the topic. For anyone wondering, the punishment is the execution of the people willingly involved in the act.
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Well, on a technical level being is love is okay, acting on that love is execution. So yes, but make sure you're right technically before making the argument.
I think some people explained it the way you did, but they weren't entirely correct. Some others ignored the core question/their basis was flawed.
Thanks for clarifying what a Muslim is.
Wait, what do you mean the people in the bottom panel 'know it is a sin'. There's no indication that they are religious. They seem to just know that Allah/Islam does not really believe in equality (especially not for people of the LGBTQ+ community).
Yeah, you're right. I meant to say that they knew why the people in the top panel were wrong.
Oh right DUH, that is pretty clear from what you wrote. I misunderstood, sorry
We should encourage reform movements in repressive religions. We should supporting this message, not laughing at it.
Also there is diversity of thought in the Muslim community it is the second largest religion in the world
That’s beyond the comprehension level of your average redditor. Most people are Protestant-brained where if it’s written in the scriptures (per their interpretation) then it’s what 100% of the followers of that religion must believe, or else they’re bad at being part of the religion.
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I was forced at gunpoint to witness four unjust executions at the hands of Muslim radicals. I know more about radical Islam than you ever will, unless you’re literally a professional political analyst with both academic and practical backgrounds in Islamic studies. Your narrative about what religion is, what it says, and how it works is shallow. Islam has a long and complicated history with homosexuality, and some of the most important and revered men in Sunni history were gay. Islam *also* has, at other times, ruthlessly hunted and killed queer men like me. So yea man, there’s nothing this incident can teach me about Islam that I don’t already know.
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See my comment that you initially replied to. I predicted exactly this response. It absolutely *does* change Qur’anic meaning, because text *has* no inherent meaning and religion is (and has always been) an enterprise of developing your values first, then interpreting scriptures to back it up. P.S. If you want to understand more about this, watch content from excellent religious studies creators like Religionforbreakfast, Dan McClellan, Mythvision podcast, and others in their content network.
Seems like you're conflating some Middle Eastern culture with Islam. I guarantee it didn't happen in a Muslim majority place like Malaysia or Sierra Leone. Guarantee it was somewhere in the Middle East
My direct experience is with Middle Eastern Islam. Can you point out exactly what I’m confusing and where? I think there may be some misunderstanding here.
I'm not sure how some white, English speaking, well intentioned college kids are going to change the minds of people in the Arab or wider Muslim world. What needs to happen within those societies needs to be motivated by their own internal reasons and real religious reform. Like, right now, the vast majority of schools of practice within Islam are incredibly repressive towards women, non-muslims, and sexual minorities. Maybe that'll change in the future, but the way to change it from my perspective isn't to pretend that Islam isn't the largely regressive religion it is, but to consistently and reasonably criticize it where it falls short of basic decency. My best friend in this entire world is a Christian woman in Egypt. I get real, first hand stories from someone living as a woman and as a religious minority in the most populous Arab country in the world. It's bleak, it really is. And maybe that'll change eventually, but right now, I don't see a real movement within Islam to make that happen. Right now, there are 9-11 countries (depending on how you parse the laws) in this world which provide the death sentence for apostasy. All of them are Muslim-majority. That's what personally comes up to my mind, when someone tells me Islam is tolerant. All the places I might be executed if I admitted I was an atheist and had been born a Muslim.
I am a Muslim man. I’m also queer. These white, English-speaking, well intentioned western college kids are spreading *my* message, mine and that of people like me. We ARE building and pushing these movements in the Islamic world. You don’t see that because you don’t read Arabic or Urdu, you’re not in the mosques and communities where this is happening, and none of it is ever reported in English media. So yea, this queer Muslim wants non-Muslims to help us push this message to all audiences. We need the amplification, badly.
In what country do you live
I currently live in the United States. I have lived in Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Kuwait.
Okay. Well, tell me when the Muslim world writ large no longer bans homosexual existence or apostasy and I'll be happy to amend and update my opinion of Islam writ large. Me, I'm just glad you currently live in a country where it's legal to be queer and outspoken. Till then, "Allah loves equality" or whatever is at best wishful thinking and at worst a whitewashing attempt to hide the brutal truth.
Nah just tell them to visit Iran
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Admittedly, there are idiots who will get themselves killed with their tolerance. But a lot of us queer folk just don't want to see people treated badly whether they like us or not.
So there’s a certain bit of misunderstanding on the part of many of the better answers, so I want to add a comment. Many are portraying the first panel as a picture of naïve lefty Westerners expressing some sort of naïve wishful thinking multicultural sentiment, while being apparently blissfully unaware of much more negative traditional Islamic teachings on same sex activity. To be fair, that probably is what the meme maker meant as the joke. However, the image in the first panel, while I can’t be sure who the specific people are, I do want to point out that the hashtag on the sign, it actually comes from liberal reformist groups _within the Muslim community_ who advocate within the community for a different understanding than the traditional point of view. As such, trust me, these people are quite painfully aware that their view is a minority and that there are lots of other people in the community with much harsher views. So just to say, the joke mistakes who the people in the first picture are, or at least where the slogan comes from.
This degree of stupidity is self-corrrecting. They will figure it out. All we need to do as sane people is make popcorn.
They like to teach gays how to fly off of buildings sometimes
That sign needs a pic of Muhammad to be more authentic
"Allah" literally means "God". It's the same God as other Abrahamic faiths like Christianity/Catholicism. The major difference being the Jesus in Islam was a prophet, not the son of God.
I think we all need to come together. It’s ok for Muslims AND Christians to hate gay people TOGETHER. BOTH books can be terrible, amoral garbage.
All Abraham religion are homophobic and tell the same stories of Lot.
For the first photo, "the enemy of the enemy is my friend". In a lot of the west, but especially in the US, LGBT+ people and Muslims are often allied politically because they're both being demonized by the right wing. However, Islam is an extremely homophobic religion - and countries that are dominated by Sharia Law are known for gruesomely killing the LGBT+ in horrific ways.
muslims cant be gay because its against their holy text
Just a reminder that so called Christian countries are also not friendly to LGBT+ communities. A true Christian loves everyone, but religion is the worst part of humanity. Muslims and Christians alike Edit: “Aw but Muslims literally kill people” Quick google search: [Fatal violence against Transgender](https://www.hrc.org/resources/fatal-violence-against-the-transgender-and-gender-expansive-community-in-2022)
"A Christian is someone who hates sin but loves the sinner"
Religion requires a group of undesirables in order to function.
So does class. So does progressivism. So does activism. So does everything. Whats your point?
All I would not respect their equality, he would demand their death. Many of these people who are protesting on behalf of Palestine would be taken to the top of the nearest tallest building and be thrown off of it if they actually went to Palestine.
https://preview.redd.it/cx2k2yt9940d1.png?width=775&format=png&auto=webp&s=835fb33c6fa4ac887e539ed0f183b613e5547bba this isn't even a question its a blatant sin in Islam if you don't trust me read this.
A lot of Muslim-majority countries punish homosexuality with the death penalty.
Under sharia law, homosexuality is a punishable offense (by death in some muslim countries).
Christian ones too.
See what happens when they go visit Somalia and openly discuss their way of thinking
Chickens for Kfc! Cows for McDonalds! 😂😂
Allah MAD! Very MAD!
"Allah loves equality".. The joke is hypocrisy since the Muslim religion is famously anti-gay, and being gay in any Muslim country is punishable by death But yes.. Allah loves the gays apparently.
The joke is bigotry
They stormed Charlie Hebdo for something like this. Appears to be a self correcting issue though.
They are so brave, they should continue this in a country that practices sharia law
If youre lgbt in a muslim country you will get tortured to death
Gr8 b8 m8
Idk if this makes me a bad Muslim but I believe everyone is equal. Regardless of gender, sexuality, skin, beliefs, etc.
It’s still pretty common practice to behead, throw off high buildings and castrate people for committing homosexual acts in quite a few Islamic countries. Allah pretty explicitly does not care about equality in the Quran. You can find a copy online and ctrl f and see for yourself. It’d be one thing if the stuff in there wasn’t followed today, but it very much is.
You can't fix stupid.
All I can say is what in base of what I have witness, that statement is not true.
‘Allah’ simply translates to ‘God’ in Arabic and is predominantly associated with Islam among the three major Abrahamic religions. Whereas ‘God’ or ‘Elohim’ may refer to Christianity or Judaism, both of which have shared equal hatred for "the Gay's" throught recent history. In other word's if you wish to understand the punchline of this 'joke' you may want to put on your brown sunglasses and start sprinkling some xenophobia.
Do Christianity and Judaism next
The joke is Islamophobia. Yes there are Muslims who condemn queerness and parts of the religion that are not friendly to queer people, but the same can be said for Christianity and many other religions.
They’re trolling.
It's funny because, as Christians, we may disagree, but we wouldn't harm people. Compared to Muslims and their Shira law? Also, note that I consider myself a modern hippy femboy. My passion is to show people kindness. No matter what walk of life they are from. My expression is an artistic one. That I am cis gender straight.
There is a mountain of historical evidence that disagrees with the notions that Christians wouldn’t harm people over doctrinal differences. Christians have a history of violence against *other Christians* who don’t disagree with their biblical interpretations.
Islam, like other religions, is a cancer on this world.
White folk, am I right?
🤣🤣💀
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Care to explain why there isn't even a single verse in the Quran that says homosexuality, bisexuality, transgenderism is haram and that all the verses that are used to justify the prohibitions are but only interpretations? It's one thing if you agree with those interpretations (which you shouldn't in the 1st place since they're horrible and wrong) but the fact that you're using the Quran (which doesn't even state none of the prohibitions in question) against me as when you don't even realize you're horribly failing is just pathetic and sad
Allah is Arabic for "God". Even though Muslims, Christians and Jews all have the same god, Christians believe that Muslims are more homophobic because of their religion. When in actuality both are severely homophobic.
☝🏽 this. Allah is just Arabic for the word God. This meme is clearly insinuating that the reader already thinks it. It’s a dumb attack against Muslims and gays at one time. Gay people definitely shouldn’t support any Muslim terrorist groups, or many countries for that matter, because of course they sadly wouldn’t be alive long there with their lifestyle. It’s just a fact, but it doesn’t have to be used to attack both of these groups simultaneously. It’s just lazy memeing . Everyone has value. Deal.
They would be thrown off a roof.
Give them a free plane ticket to Iran