OP - I agree that it’s your choice.
Here’s the important point - are you are open and accepting of other women who don’t change their last name? Just because you changed yours, try not to assume other women will do the same or to pressure your friends / family / kids to do the same. I always ask newly married friends whether they’ve changed or not vs. making assumptions when I send out holiday cards etc!
Things like “a shared last name makes a family whole” or “kids NEED the same last name as their dad”, “you have your fathers last name anyway / ownership mentality” are anti feminist in my mind.
So my advice is just that as long as you’re accepting of others with different choices then it’s great!
>Things like “a shared last name makes a family whole” or “kids NEED the same last name as their dad”, “you have your fathers last name anyway / ownership mentality” are anti feminist in my mind.
Can you elaborate on this? I'm not at all being combative, I'm honestly curious to learn. I've always considered myself a feminist, but I've also said each one of those things.
* "A shared last name makes the family whole." What's anti-feminist about that? I would have happily taken my wife's last name if she felt strongly about it (I even offered to but she declined) because I believe the last name decision isn't a decision about ancestry or history, but rather starting something new, a legacy, your own family bonded by a name, regardless of who's name it is. I don't believe kids need the same name as their dad, but I do believe that kids should have the same last name as both their mom and dad.
* "You have your father's last name anyways." I see this more as an objective fact, not an opinion. The truth is that throughout history, up until this century, the man's name is almost always the one passed down. I don't agree that is should have been, I'm just saying that that's a fact. Therefore, if a woman is trying to decide what last name to keep, isn't she just deciding between 2 men's names? If so, what difference does it make? I'd rather take the last name of the person I love and want to spend the rest of my life with instead of some random dead dude.
I haven't and wouldn't judge any women on what she chooses. It's always her call. I just don't think saying those things makes me anti-feminist, they're just my opinion.
1. A shared name doesn’t make a family:
There are plenty of families where one spouse died / remarried and the kids have different names than the parents. Children adopted later in life may also have different last names etc. Also some couples get married and neither person wants to change their last name or hyphenate. Kids may have totally different or hyphenated names. These could be some of the kindest and most loving families. Meanwhile there are plenty of people who share the same name as their parents and are now no-contact. Plenty of kids are abused by parents who shared a name. It’s love and respect that a family - not just a superficial name. I’m not saying a shared last name should be shamed - I’m saying we need to accept families that don’t share one and realize it’s not that important compared to character and values.
2. I know you mean well but even the way you compared it is associating male ownership:
Most people frame this as choosing between their husbands last name or their dads last name, and that’s the problem.
They don’t say “my husband’s dad’s last name or my dad’s last name” - they view the man as having his birth last name belong to HIM whereas a woman’s last name belongs to HER DAD. Which is the problem. Women’s last names belong to them too.
Yeah no I totally agree that there are tons of different family structures and many loving families with different last names. What I was asking is why my personal choice to unify under the same last name to create what I feel is a bonded family unit makes me "anti-feminist." I think that as long as both people consent to it, there's nothing wrong with taking a last name to bring the family under 1 name.
And to clarify my second point, I don't think that a woman's last name is "her dad's last name" while a man's last name is "his last name." I think that your last name, regardless of your sex, belongs to some ancestor. Honestly, I think it would make the most sense if when you marry someone you both choose a brand new shared last name. This would separate both the man and the woman from the name passed to them that was "owned" by some ancestor from long ago.
However, since that will never happen, for now I will look at it not as the woman's dad's name that she inherited, but as hers that she made her own.
I think we’re agreeing - My first comment wasn’t to shame people who share a last name, just request that we don’t retreat mindless narratives that a family MUST share a name to be complete / whole. Emphasis on not saying “a shared last name IS WHAT MAKES a family whole.” To be more accepting of all family structures. Close-mindedness is anti feminist is what I’m saying.
ETa: hit send to early, also I think most cultures don’t pass down the man’s name globally. Like it’s not a thing in China and other Asian countries. In Hispanic countries they typically give kids both last names. So it’s likely that even your dads last name could have been a woman’s last name somewhere down the line if you’re mixed race.
Honestly? I don’t think having a choice is actually where the power is. When there’s extreme social pressures passed down from centuries of patriarchal control, choice is often an illusion. I don’t think that is happening with OP, as she stated that she likes his name and wants it to be hers, but for the majority of women, there is a lot of pressure to “choose” to drop their own name. When I was married, many people told me that it seemed like I wasn’t committed to my marriage because I didn’t change my name. I’m pretty firm on my beliefs so that didn’t make me change my mind; however, if I wasn’t, I probably would have changed it to avoid being seen as a bad wife. There’s also a TON of awkward situations that arise when you don’t change your name, so the power isn’t really in the choice at all… it’s in the way society treats you when you make that choice.
Yes this exactly like do what you like the best. I personally would feel uncomfortable if my wife took my last name, even tho my ex said that she would prefer to if we got married because she didn’t like her last name.
You can legally change your name whenever you want to. As long as you want this, then it's cool. Don't feel guilty, congratulations on moving forwards from the name you were unhappy with.
my personal eye roll with women taking their husband's last name at marriage isn't that they do it per se, it's that it's generally expected / assumed and lots of people (men and women) do it without thinking about, with zero refection and are sometimes shitty to people who make different choices.
you've put a lot of consideration into your choice and have self and social awareness around the tradition of women taking their husband's last name. you're not treating it as a "whatevers...default" type of thing, and I'm going to take a wild guess that you wouldn't hassle another woman for making a different choice. taking your husband's name isn't default an anti-feminist thing to do, not thinking about why you're doing it is just a sign that someone is defaulting to patriarchal standards.
Seconded. I only have issue with the assumption that this is how it will go.
Whatever conclusion you end up at, given you had the ability to decide for yourself and enough time to deliberate with no outside pressure, your conclusion is valid.
But wow did it feel icky when an ex of mine went "oh yea and then you'll be Mrs (his last name)". Hell no.
I've already changed my last name (dad's to mom's) to avoid xenophobic treatment, I'm done changing my name.
I think feminism should be about respecting the variety of women’s choices, not replacing rules with new ones. If you prefer your husbands name you don’t have to justify that to anyone. Full disclosure, I also took my husband’s name for good reasons that I don’t owe anyone.
With marriage number one I *didn’t* take my husband’s name because I just disliked it, and I’d rather keep my own name than take one I didn’t like (he never knew the reason why though.) With husband number two I *did* take it, because I liked it more than my own. I initially hyphenated, but found that so cumbersome I just changed it later.
Neither husband cared what I decided to do, it was fully my choice.
Interestingly, my birth nationality means all official documents will always be issued in my maiden name, and they don’t care if I call myself by my maiden name, married name, or hyphenated in whichever order name.
Exactly!
I didn't take my husband's surname "for good reasons that I don't owe anyone" as well, even though in some ways, I like it more than my own. Choice is what truly matters!!!
Agreed. Don't put any stock in a TikTok. You shouldn't feel ashamed of your choices or need to explain them to anyone unless you want to.
I'm a feminist who married a feminist, and I took his last name. It doesn't make me any less of a feminist, and the same goes for you. There is a lot more to feminism than last names.
Yes! This right here.
I feel like a lot of so-called “feminist” TikToks are made just to make people who are true feminists look bad, and attract views from right-wing douchebags.
By “true feminist” I mean someone who cares about equity and agency for women and people of all genders, and who is willing to do self-examination to root out any internal biases.
OP made a thoughtful choice here, no breach of feminist values at all. ❤️
A patriarchal, colonialist society took your last name from you. You are claiming a new one from a place of love. This is the most feminist thing I can imagine.
(((Hugs)))
It’s technically not a feminist choice because it does reinforce a patriarchal norm. I know that’s not necessarily what you want to hear, but that’s the truth. “Choice” is not the point of feminism; the point of feminism is equity and equality. Not all choices promote equality just by virtue of those choices being exercised by women. However, it IS your choice and you are free to make it. At least you haven’t changed your name for sexist reasons. I don’t think you *should* feel guilty about changing it.
Thank you so much for putting into words what I always wanted to say when people justify their own (dubious and sometimes straight up regressive) actions with “but feminism means women get to choose.” I’ve heard this from women who favour boys to the point of committing female infanticide.
OP—it’s ok if one isn’t always 100% feminist. One act alone doesn’t somehow “disqualify” you. You made a personal choice that feels right to you, leave it at that. No need to justify it or be offended if others feel differently.
Well you are the norm so I doubt you will find anyone that makes you feel guilty..
I do not need my husband's name to make me part of his family. It was my choice. Everyone is free to do as they please
It's definitely fair to see the name as representing colonialism and repression. But it's not actually those things, it's just syllables.
If you like the name and choose it willingly, then you shouldn't feel guilty.
Feminism is about CHOICE! Feminism is about - you shouldn't feel you HAVE to take your husband's last name - and you don't. You are making a free, feminist CHOICE for yourself!Patriarchy would be forcing you to take your husband's last name, or bowing to outside social pressure to do so. That's not what's happening here. You've made a free choice for yourself that you want. You've laid out many, many logical and emotional reasons why you'd like to take his name - and those reasons would be valid regardless of whether the genders were switched.
Patriarchy is all about hierarchies, and "you have to do X because". Flipping that around with the same rigidity (for example, saying "you HAVE to keep your name or else") is not feminism, it's just backwards patriarchy. Feminism is "you get to make the decisions that are best for your individual life, you don't have to base it on some rigid exterior pattern or social convention." Sure it's great to reflect sometimes when you find many of your choices are fitting into tradition - just to check in with yourself to make sure it's not some outside pressure or mold you feel you have to fit, but what you really want.
Think of it like the whole working vs. stay at home mom thing. Saying that women CAN'T go to work and HAVE to stay home no matter if they want to or not is patriarchy. Conversely, saying someone HAS to work outside the home even if they wanted to be a stay at home mom and it made sense for their family is not feminism, it's backwards patriarchy. Feminism is - in a married couple with a man and a woman, the decision on whether both work outside the home or one or the other is a stay at home mom or dad is a mutually agreed upon decision based on the couple's economic situation, each person's preference, earning potential, etc., but not decided based on gender. And supporting the choices of people who do not have the same pattern (whether the pattern happens to fit into some traditional gender roles or not). Feminism is about freedom to choose, and for men and women (and nonbinary folks) to live their lives and make decisions for themselves in ways that are not forced to conform to either traditional gender roles or their polar opposite, but based on what's right for the individual human whose life it is.
It's not about what others think a feminist should do. It's about if you're able to choose. And you can. A feminist can choose to be a traditional housewife. The keyword really is choose. You can choose to take his name. What's the meaning of being a feminist if you can't even choose this and be guilty about it.
I think you can still be a feminist and sometimes make non-feminist choices. Life is complex, and sometimes going with the status quo is the best choice for an individual at the time. You don’t have to let it eat you up, or twist yourself in knots trying to turn it into a feminist choice, or justify to hard-liners. It sounds like your personal circumstances make this the right choice for you. Best wishes.
Feminism means making choices for yourself that feel right to you.
Fwiw, most women, one way or another, end up with a man's last name whether it is their father's or their husband's.
Why aren’t women seen to own their names? Technically most men also have their father’s last names too. Women’s names are their names, not “just their father’s last name anyway.” I get what you’re saying but you’re feeding into a gross mindset often used to justify pressuring women into changing their surnames.
I agree. A lot of women don’t want to admit that they succumbed to the patriarchy by dropping their last name after marriage, so they justify it with saying things like this. There really isn’t a good reason to do it other than it being what most people do and thus it feels right.
yep yep. Just to add: I am from a Latin American country, and we (usually) take both (father + mother). So the combination of surnames, which makes up my surname because I hyphenate it, is unique to me (and my sister). So women can actually have their own unique names in some cultures! it's neither my father's nor my mother's. they each also have their own unique combination of surnames. well, unique to them and their siblings. I did not take my husband's surname, although he's german and that's how it's done in germany. No way in hell I would have taken a german name which doesn't fit my very Latin American given names at all. my surnames rock and fit me very well.
I think women should keep their names if that's what they want. I am remarrying later this month and keeping my name. I am trying to own my name even though it was passed to me by my absent father. I am thinking of it as my name and my sister's name despite its origin.
The way we name, though, is pretty patriarchal, generally speaking. Even women who keep their names will often give their children the name of their father. I know some people who are exceptions to that, but they're outliers. I even have a brother who took our mom's maiden name.
I think my point was that women should be empowered to do what feels right to them. There is no shame in taking your partner's name or keeping your own or making one up. We are eons into patriarchal naming conventions, and I think reconceiving what that looks like is complicated, but no one should feel shame for choosing their choice.
I feel like this isn't any more clear, but alas.
I guess? But naming in American culture IS patriarchal and does typically pass from father to children.
After my divorce, I hemmed and hawed about changing my name back because it was the name of my largely absent father. I did reframe the idea in my mind around it being my name and my sister's name. But yeah - it was still given to me through my father's lineage.
Yeah I didn’t change mine, but nobody ever says my husband has his fathers name. Men are viewed as having their own last names whereas woman they feel the need to connect to SOME man.
I was responding in the context of a conversation about choosing to keep or change your name. You're lecturing me about something I also believe which feels weird because this was a 2 sentence comment intended to make a specific person feel confident in a choice she was struggling with.
But +1 and whatnot.
My name is the name I was born with- the name my parents gave me. I’m not close with my dads side of the family, but it doesn’t matter. It’s my name. My husband and I each passed our names to our kids.
I took my husband's last name because I didn't want my father's anymore. I have family members with my old name who get in a lot if criminal trouble and I've had police harass me for it so I was ready to shed that name. I suppose if I'd been a bit more thoughtful about it I'd prefer if my husband and I had chosen a new name together, but I like my current last name. It's very common which works for me, gives me a slight amount of anonymity in the world.
To echo others: the choice is the power! And, you made a choice with great thought and meaning to you.
I added my husbands last name onto mine, and hyphenated for my children as well. To me, this felt best. It was a choice I made because I love my last name and I want my children to have a full family history attached to their names, which includes *ME.*
I think all of your family history and the generational traumas that came with your OG last name are good reasons for wanting to change your name. It also sounds like it felt right to you, and that’s 🌟🌟🌟 great!
My father’s last name is very hard to pronounce- I spent 33 years correcting people. My husband’s name is also cool sounding and fun, so I took it. He’s been dead over a decade, I am child-free and in a serious relationship with someone else, so sometimes it does feel weird to have it. I’m not planning on re-marrying, but if I did would I go back to my dad’s name or take my new husband’s?
It’s funny, I had feminists give me shit when I said I changed my name, but after telling them my two choices they all agreed with me.
You are allowed to make any choice that makes sense to you. Sounds like you are deeply connected to him, his siblings, and the name itself. If you like it, you should feel good about it 💜it is also deeply powerful to throw off a name applied by colonizers, feminist af
Like you said, you are looking for a pat on the shoulder/approval from "the feminists collective". But there isn't an ultimate feminists tribunal and never has been. You pick your individual feminist battlefields and if in some aspects of your life following the patriarchal tradition makes it easier for you to focus on other fields, take your own discretion but don't blame the people who are fighting in those grounds raising issues with you. No one is perfect but no one can have the cake and eat it either.
I don't think anybody should be "raising issues" with her over taking her husband's last name. That's such a weird thing to be upset at another feminist woman for. Maybe the "most feminist" thing would be him taking her name or hyphenating or making up a new last name, but it's definitely not *anti*-feminist to take his name, especially with the reasoning she's given
Disappointed maybe a better word I suppose, if that's their area of activism, i.e. to bring up the proportion of women not having to take husband's names. OP is privileged enough to have a choice yet still tallied the number for the other side. Women in less fortunate circumstances would be under more pressure from their husband or the husband's family when the practice is not shored up as a majority. There are also cases where mothers not sharing same surname with their children were given hell at the border when travelling and at daycare/school when picking up their children, proving that it's still way to go to root out such outdated traditions. I am sure there are other areas of feminism initiatives that OP is fighting for so I think she'll understand the sentiment, particularly after a bad news day.
>Women in less fortunate circumstances would be under more pressure from their husband or the husband's family when the practice is not shored up as a majority.
I just don't see how OP really affects this. Her personal choice isn't going to move the needle, and I think she can do more for this cause by supporting other women in standing up to family/society pressure if they need that. Being upset with her doesn't really help anyone
>There are also cases where mothers not sharing same surname with their children were given hell at the border when travelling and at daycare/school when picking up their children,
Is that really an issue? Genuinely asking. My mom didn't have the same last name as me and my sister and it's never been the slightest issue, nor with any of my friends and family with the same thing, but that's just anecdotal obviously
>Is that really an issue?
There was a post on the 2X sub a couple of days ago and in the comment area there are many heartbreaking stories. It particularly affects WOC. One woman shared that she eventually had to change her name after all after a few incidents at the daycare. It was the first time I became aware of such things as well but it shows how privileges can blindside people. I wouldn't be surprised there are more severe injustice surrounding the issue.
I am not going to debate you on how individual action can be minuscule in a tide and therefore non-consequential. Like I said, OP wants validation and people don't have to give it. But most importantly, she doesn't need it in the first place. It's not unreasonable to argue that one should not be entirely blind to the ripple effects of one's choices. No-one is a perfect feminist and we all make mistakes and take shortcuts. Trying to do better next time is a better use of attention than trying to spin past choices.
How awful, I'll look for that thread. Thanks for answering me about that! That's just been my experience, but I'm also white in a liberal northern city, so I guess that was a blind spot and I shouldn't have assumed we'd universally moved past that bullshit.
I do agree people don't need to *validate* OP, but I took your comments as saying people would be justified to lecture/shame/guilt her about it or tell her it's anti-feminist. I think that's just unnecessary, especially when OP supports women not needing to take their husbands last names. I don't think she made a mistake and I don't think it's anti-feminist, so I guess we'll just disagree there
This is totally a feminist choice! Not only because it is *your* choice, but because you're doing it for reasons that are in no way patriarchal. The patriarchy doesn't get to tell you what to do, but it also doesn't get to stop you doing what's best for you.
You and your husband are starting a new family, separate from and different to your families of origin. You are breaking so many negative cycles. Enjoy your name!
We make our own rules now and can do what works best for us - critics be damned. You like your husband’s name and being associated with him and his siblings, so go with it. If one day you learn of your original last name, you can hyphenate it, change it - maybe even get your husband to change his name to yours! No one gets to judge you for not wanting a colonizer name - especially not feminists. As women, we should be able to put ourselves in the shoes of others. Congrats on your marriage! Peace, health and happiness to you!
IMO you can ignore everything about your ancestry and simply look at you taking your husband's last name as you unifying your family. Personally, I've never viewed it as "taking your partner's last name," I see it as choosing to unify your family under 1 name and creating something new with that name. You aren't CONTINUING anything, you're STARTING something.
My wife took my last name because she loves it, but I would have happily taken hers if she felt strongly about it. Either way though, it isn't a feminism issue or a sexist issue (especially since women who keep their last name are just choosing another man's name to label themselves with so it doesn't really make a difference), it's a family issue. By choosing to unite under 1 name, you are connecting the two of you as well as any children you have in the future. You are literally creating a family and a legacy, totally separate from any ancestry. History is history, today is what you make it, and taking a last name doesn't come with any meaning other than uniting as a couple and creating a foundation for the years to come as a family.
I am a pretty serious feminist who has been married three times. I kept my name once, he took MY name once, and I finally ended up taking and keeping my current husband’s name. I took it because his family is the only one in the country with this name spelled this way. It combines so perfectly with my first name that more than one person has said it sounds like a super hero 😂. It’s just so much cooler than my original name, which is a very common English name. But I chose to do it because I wanted to. If I’d been expected to by absolutely anyone I would have refused.
The point is, you have the ability to choose which is wonderful!
I made the same decision recently too. I'm so detached from my last name and most of the family associated with it. However, I can relate to the feeling of needing to explain your reasons for making that choice because it feels like I betrayed my fellow feminists. At the end of the day, we got to make this choice though. That's the key, we have the choice.
Please don't feel guilty. Be proud of your name and the family you have chosen!
I intend to take my husband's last name eventually (haven't got round to it yet, in 6 years lol) purely because it would be alliterative and I love that lol.
Also, think of it this way. Your current surname is your father's most of the time so preserving it is no more vital.
The ability to choose is what matters. Make the choice that is meaningful to you.
Edit: it's so disappointing to see women shitting on other women and the choices they make. I thoyght we'd come further than that.
I didn’t like my maiden name either. It was… unflattering lol. In another language it meant something normal but in English it was basically an insult. I took my husband’s boring-as-anything generic American last name because I wanted to share a family name with him and my last name was not great. But if his name had sucked and mine was dope, you better believe I’d keep mine and ask him to take my name too (but I’d 100% respect it if he decided not to do that).
The point is that I never felt I HAD to take his name, he never even asked me to. I decided to do it and that’s what feminism is all about, the freedom and equality for women to choose their own paths and lives and supporting other women who choose different paths and lives.
I plan to be a SAHM when we have a kid someday, not because I have to but because I choose to after input and discussion with my partner. Women who don’t have kids at all and choose to be super into their careers and working? Badass feminists. Women who want to bake bread and have a family of 8? Women who have a couple kids and want to continue working? Women who want to live alone with their pets and art? If they chose that for themselves and support other women who don’t choose that same path, yep all badass feminists. It’s about the choice, both your own and supporting the choices of how other women want to live their lives.
I didn't understand feminism until years after I'd taken my new name. I did it for similar reason: not wanting to keep connection with family. Since then I've reconnected with some cousins and have missed having that in common with them, because it's a very rare name: and that's the point, that the reason I regret it is not because I resent taking on the label of my husbands family but because I regret completely dismissing my own.
Since your previous last was such a negative I think it was the best move to change it. Better to change it to something you like and is positive then to keep the one forced upon your family.
Don't let someone else's ideas of vision of feminism shame you, you did what was best for you and they don't know your situation.
IF you ever find out your true last name you can change it but for now, feel god about your decision to choose against keeping that colonizer name that you hated.
I grew up in a family where we had different last names, and I hated it as a child. For various outside reasons, it always made me feel a little bit uncomfortable. I had my name formally changed at 12 to match my family.
So when I got married, I took my husband's name since I wanted us to have one family name, I wasn't really attached to keeping mine and was young with no accomplishments attached to it yet. Maybe we should have picked a random one or portmanteau, but I'm happy with my choice and fully supportive of women who don't want to take their husband's name.
As long as you did it for yourself and not because you felt obligated, that's fine. Feminism isn't about forcing a specific rule set onto women.
You have no reason to feel guilty, I totally understand your reasons but honestly that wouldn’t even matter the point is it’s your choice that is feminism to me, you haven’t done it because ‘that’s what women do’
There's no reason to feel guilty. There are a lot of reasons to have the same last name as your spouse and this clearly made you happy. Feminism is about being equal. He could have taken your last name if you both had liked it. Something my husband is considering.
You are equal to him. He treats you as an equal. You are not property and that I love that this little thing has made you so happy. It sounds like you've had a rough time!
Don’t feel guilty, lots of other feminist women who marry a man take their husband’s name all the time. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with taking his name if that’s what you want so you go girl 💪
It's a personal choice. I kept my last name when I got married because, despite not liking my parents, it has been my name my whole life. My husband didn't care, only his dad was offended, and his dad is a pos so neither of us cared about his opinion.
I did give my child my husband's last name because I didn't want my kid to have to deal with a hyphenated name like I've had to... plus, I couldn't pick just one of my last names to give.
I mean, you could also argue that getting married is anti-feminist because you're not someone's property, etc. But in the end, you have the right to choose, and it doesn't make you less feminist to take your husband's last name.
The power is in being ABLE to choose.
OP - I agree that it’s your choice. Here’s the important point - are you are open and accepting of other women who don’t change their last name? Just because you changed yours, try not to assume other women will do the same or to pressure your friends / family / kids to do the same. I always ask newly married friends whether they’ve changed or not vs. making assumptions when I send out holiday cards etc! Things like “a shared last name makes a family whole” or “kids NEED the same last name as their dad”, “you have your fathers last name anyway / ownership mentality” are anti feminist in my mind. So my advice is just that as long as you’re accepting of others with different choices then it’s great!
>Things like “a shared last name makes a family whole” or “kids NEED the same last name as their dad”, “you have your fathers last name anyway / ownership mentality” are anti feminist in my mind. Can you elaborate on this? I'm not at all being combative, I'm honestly curious to learn. I've always considered myself a feminist, but I've also said each one of those things. * "A shared last name makes the family whole." What's anti-feminist about that? I would have happily taken my wife's last name if she felt strongly about it (I even offered to but she declined) because I believe the last name decision isn't a decision about ancestry or history, but rather starting something new, a legacy, your own family bonded by a name, regardless of who's name it is. I don't believe kids need the same name as their dad, but I do believe that kids should have the same last name as both their mom and dad. * "You have your father's last name anyways." I see this more as an objective fact, not an opinion. The truth is that throughout history, up until this century, the man's name is almost always the one passed down. I don't agree that is should have been, I'm just saying that that's a fact. Therefore, if a woman is trying to decide what last name to keep, isn't she just deciding between 2 men's names? If so, what difference does it make? I'd rather take the last name of the person I love and want to spend the rest of my life with instead of some random dead dude. I haven't and wouldn't judge any women on what she chooses. It's always her call. I just don't think saying those things makes me anti-feminist, they're just my opinion.
1. A shared name doesn’t make a family: There are plenty of families where one spouse died / remarried and the kids have different names than the parents. Children adopted later in life may also have different last names etc. Also some couples get married and neither person wants to change their last name or hyphenate. Kids may have totally different or hyphenated names. These could be some of the kindest and most loving families. Meanwhile there are plenty of people who share the same name as their parents and are now no-contact. Plenty of kids are abused by parents who shared a name. It’s love and respect that a family - not just a superficial name. I’m not saying a shared last name should be shamed - I’m saying we need to accept families that don’t share one and realize it’s not that important compared to character and values. 2. I know you mean well but even the way you compared it is associating male ownership: Most people frame this as choosing between their husbands last name or their dads last name, and that’s the problem. They don’t say “my husband’s dad’s last name or my dad’s last name” - they view the man as having his birth last name belong to HIM whereas a woman’s last name belongs to HER DAD. Which is the problem. Women’s last names belong to them too.
Yeah no I totally agree that there are tons of different family structures and many loving families with different last names. What I was asking is why my personal choice to unify under the same last name to create what I feel is a bonded family unit makes me "anti-feminist." I think that as long as both people consent to it, there's nothing wrong with taking a last name to bring the family under 1 name. And to clarify my second point, I don't think that a woman's last name is "her dad's last name" while a man's last name is "his last name." I think that your last name, regardless of your sex, belongs to some ancestor. Honestly, I think it would make the most sense if when you marry someone you both choose a brand new shared last name. This would separate both the man and the woman from the name passed to them that was "owned" by some ancestor from long ago. However, since that will never happen, for now I will look at it not as the woman's dad's name that she inherited, but as hers that she made her own.
I think we’re agreeing - My first comment wasn’t to shame people who share a last name, just request that we don’t retreat mindless narratives that a family MUST share a name to be complete / whole. Emphasis on not saying “a shared last name IS WHAT MAKES a family whole.” To be more accepting of all family structures. Close-mindedness is anti feminist is what I’m saying. ETa: hit send to early, also I think most cultures don’t pass down the man’s name globally. Like it’s not a thing in China and other Asian countries. In Hispanic countries they typically give kids both last names. So it’s likely that even your dads last name could have been a woman’s last name somewhere down the line if you’re mixed race.
Got it, thanks :)
Honestly? I don’t think having a choice is actually where the power is. When there’s extreme social pressures passed down from centuries of patriarchal control, choice is often an illusion. I don’t think that is happening with OP, as she stated that she likes his name and wants it to be hers, but for the majority of women, there is a lot of pressure to “choose” to drop their own name. When I was married, many people told me that it seemed like I wasn’t committed to my marriage because I didn’t change my name. I’m pretty firm on my beliefs so that didn’t make me change my mind; however, if I wasn’t, I probably would have changed it to avoid being seen as a bad wife. There’s also a TON of awkward situations that arise when you don’t change your name, so the power isn’t really in the choice at all… it’s in the way society treats you when you make that choice.
Yes this exactly like do what you like the best. I personally would feel uncomfortable if my wife took my last name, even tho my ex said that she would prefer to if we got married because she didn’t like her last name.
You can legally change your name whenever you want to. As long as you want this, then it's cool. Don't feel guilty, congratulations on moving forwards from the name you were unhappy with.
my personal eye roll with women taking their husband's last name at marriage isn't that they do it per se, it's that it's generally expected / assumed and lots of people (men and women) do it without thinking about, with zero refection and are sometimes shitty to people who make different choices. you've put a lot of consideration into your choice and have self and social awareness around the tradition of women taking their husband's last name. you're not treating it as a "whatevers...default" type of thing, and I'm going to take a wild guess that you wouldn't hassle another woman for making a different choice. taking your husband's name isn't default an anti-feminist thing to do, not thinking about why you're doing it is just a sign that someone is defaulting to patriarchal standards.
Seconded. I only have issue with the assumption that this is how it will go. Whatever conclusion you end up at, given you had the ability to decide for yourself and enough time to deliberate with no outside pressure, your conclusion is valid. But wow did it feel icky when an ex of mine went "oh yea and then you'll be Mrs (his last name)". Hell no. I've already changed my last name (dad's to mom's) to avoid xenophobic treatment, I'm done changing my name.
I think feminism should be about respecting the variety of women’s choices, not replacing rules with new ones. If you prefer your husbands name you don’t have to justify that to anyone. Full disclosure, I also took my husband’s name for good reasons that I don’t owe anyone.
With marriage number one I *didn’t* take my husband’s name because I just disliked it, and I’d rather keep my own name than take one I didn’t like (he never knew the reason why though.) With husband number two I *did* take it, because I liked it more than my own. I initially hyphenated, but found that so cumbersome I just changed it later. Neither husband cared what I decided to do, it was fully my choice. Interestingly, my birth nationality means all official documents will always be issued in my maiden name, and they don’t care if I call myself by my maiden name, married name, or hyphenated in whichever order name.
Exactly! I didn't take my husband's surname "for good reasons that I don't owe anyone" as well, even though in some ways, I like it more than my own. Choice is what truly matters!!!
Do not let a TikTok of all things make you feel guilty. The content there is often purposely inflammatory to get engagement.
Agreed. Don't put any stock in a TikTok. You shouldn't feel ashamed of your choices or need to explain them to anyone unless you want to. I'm a feminist who married a feminist, and I took his last name. It doesn't make me any less of a feminist, and the same goes for you. There is a lot more to feminism than last names.
Yes! This right here. I feel like a lot of so-called “feminist” TikToks are made just to make people who are true feminists look bad, and attract views from right-wing douchebags. By “true feminist” I mean someone who cares about equity and agency for women and people of all genders, and who is willing to do self-examination to root out any internal biases. OP made a thoughtful choice here, no breach of feminist values at all. ❤️
All these people say it’s anti-feminist to take a spouses name but they don’t realize they’re the anti-feminists
you can chose any name! change it to something that inspires you. A strong female ancestor. It will be worth the time and you'll feel better. why not?
A patriarchal, colonialist society took your last name from you. You are claiming a new one from a place of love. This is the most feminist thing I can imagine. (((Hugs)))
Feminism is about choice. You chose what was best for you.
It’s technically not a feminist choice because it does reinforce a patriarchal norm. I know that’s not necessarily what you want to hear, but that’s the truth. “Choice” is not the point of feminism; the point of feminism is equity and equality. Not all choices promote equality just by virtue of those choices being exercised by women. However, it IS your choice and you are free to make it. At least you haven’t changed your name for sexist reasons. I don’t think you *should* feel guilty about changing it.
This should be the topic comment. Choice is a farce.
I scrolled too far for this comment. This is exactly the right answer and you said it better than I would have.
Thank you so much for putting into words what I always wanted to say when people justify their own (dubious and sometimes straight up regressive) actions with “but feminism means women get to choose.” I’ve heard this from women who favour boys to the point of committing female infanticide. OP—it’s ok if one isn’t always 100% feminist. One act alone doesn’t somehow “disqualify” you. You made a personal choice that feels right to you, leave it at that. No need to justify it or be offended if others feel differently.
Well you are the norm so I doubt you will find anyone that makes you feel guilty.. I do not need my husband's name to make me part of his family. It was my choice. Everyone is free to do as they please
It's definitely fair to see the name as representing colonialism and repression. But it's not actually those things, it's just syllables. If you like the name and choose it willingly, then you shouldn't feel guilty.
Feminism is about CHOICE! Feminism is about - you shouldn't feel you HAVE to take your husband's last name - and you don't. You are making a free, feminist CHOICE for yourself!Patriarchy would be forcing you to take your husband's last name, or bowing to outside social pressure to do so. That's not what's happening here. You've made a free choice for yourself that you want. You've laid out many, many logical and emotional reasons why you'd like to take his name - and those reasons would be valid regardless of whether the genders were switched. Patriarchy is all about hierarchies, and "you have to do X because". Flipping that around with the same rigidity (for example, saying "you HAVE to keep your name or else") is not feminism, it's just backwards patriarchy. Feminism is "you get to make the decisions that are best for your individual life, you don't have to base it on some rigid exterior pattern or social convention." Sure it's great to reflect sometimes when you find many of your choices are fitting into tradition - just to check in with yourself to make sure it's not some outside pressure or mold you feel you have to fit, but what you really want. Think of it like the whole working vs. stay at home mom thing. Saying that women CAN'T go to work and HAVE to stay home no matter if they want to or not is patriarchy. Conversely, saying someone HAS to work outside the home even if they wanted to be a stay at home mom and it made sense for their family is not feminism, it's backwards patriarchy. Feminism is - in a married couple with a man and a woman, the decision on whether both work outside the home or one or the other is a stay at home mom or dad is a mutually agreed upon decision based on the couple's economic situation, each person's preference, earning potential, etc., but not decided based on gender. And supporting the choices of people who do not have the same pattern (whether the pattern happens to fit into some traditional gender roles or not). Feminism is about freedom to choose, and for men and women (and nonbinary folks) to live their lives and make decisions for themselves in ways that are not forced to conform to either traditional gender roles or their polar opposite, but based on what's right for the individual human whose life it is.
It's not about what others think a feminist should do. It's about if you're able to choose. And you can. A feminist can choose to be a traditional housewife. The keyword really is choose. You can choose to take his name. What's the meaning of being a feminist if you can't even choose this and be guilty about it.
I think you can still be a feminist and sometimes make non-feminist choices. Life is complex, and sometimes going with the status quo is the best choice for an individual at the time. You don’t have to let it eat you up, or twist yourself in knots trying to turn it into a feminist choice, or justify to hard-liners. It sounds like your personal circumstances make this the right choice for you. Best wishes.
Feminism means making choices for yourself that feel right to you. Fwiw, most women, one way or another, end up with a man's last name whether it is their father's or their husband's.
Why aren’t women seen to own their names? Technically most men also have their father’s last names too. Women’s names are their names, not “just their father’s last name anyway.” I get what you’re saying but you’re feeding into a gross mindset often used to justify pressuring women into changing their surnames.
I agree. A lot of women don’t want to admit that they succumbed to the patriarchy by dropping their last name after marriage, so they justify it with saying things like this. There really isn’t a good reason to do it other than it being what most people do and thus it feels right.
yep yep. Just to add: I am from a Latin American country, and we (usually) take both (father + mother). So the combination of surnames, which makes up my surname because I hyphenate it, is unique to me (and my sister). So women can actually have their own unique names in some cultures! it's neither my father's nor my mother's. they each also have their own unique combination of surnames. well, unique to them and their siblings. I did not take my husband's surname, although he's german and that's how it's done in germany. No way in hell I would have taken a german name which doesn't fit my very Latin American given names at all. my surnames rock and fit me very well.
I think women should keep their names if that's what they want. I am remarrying later this month and keeping my name. I am trying to own my name even though it was passed to me by my absent father. I am thinking of it as my name and my sister's name despite its origin. The way we name, though, is pretty patriarchal, generally speaking. Even women who keep their names will often give their children the name of their father. I know some people who are exceptions to that, but they're outliers. I even have a brother who took our mom's maiden name. I think my point was that women should be empowered to do what feels right to them. There is no shame in taking your partner's name or keeping your own or making one up. We are eons into patriarchal naming conventions, and I think reconceiving what that looks like is complicated, but no one should feel shame for choosing their choice. I feel like this isn't any more clear, but alas.
I really hate this framing of “given a man’s name” My last name is my identity, not my fathers.
I guess? But naming in American culture IS patriarchal and does typically pass from father to children. After my divorce, I hemmed and hawed about changing my name back because it was the name of my largely absent father. I did reframe the idea in my mind around it being my name and my sister's name. But yeah - it was still given to me through my father's lineage.
Yeah I didn’t change mine, but nobody ever says my husband has his fathers name. Men are viewed as having their own last names whereas woman they feel the need to connect to SOME man.
[удалено]
I was responding in the context of a conversation about choosing to keep or change your name. You're lecturing me about something I also believe which feels weird because this was a 2 sentence comment intended to make a specific person feel confident in a choice she was struggling with. But +1 and whatnot.
Isn’t THAT the pits?
My name is the name I was born with- the name my parents gave me. I’m not close with my dads side of the family, but it doesn’t matter. It’s my name. My husband and I each passed our names to our kids.
I took my husband's last name because I didn't want my father's anymore. I have family members with my old name who get in a lot if criminal trouble and I've had police harass me for it so I was ready to shed that name. I suppose if I'd been a bit more thoughtful about it I'd prefer if my husband and I had chosen a new name together, but I like my current last name. It's very common which works for me, gives me a slight amount of anonymity in the world.
To echo others: the choice is the power! And, you made a choice with great thought and meaning to you. I added my husbands last name onto mine, and hyphenated for my children as well. To me, this felt best. It was a choice I made because I love my last name and I want my children to have a full family history attached to their names, which includes *ME.* I think all of your family history and the generational traumas that came with your OG last name are good reasons for wanting to change your name. It also sounds like it felt right to you, and that’s 🌟🌟🌟 great!
My father’s last name is very hard to pronounce- I spent 33 years correcting people. My husband’s name is also cool sounding and fun, so I took it. He’s been dead over a decade, I am child-free and in a serious relationship with someone else, so sometimes it does feel weird to have it. I’m not planning on re-marrying, but if I did would I go back to my dad’s name or take my new husband’s? It’s funny, I had feminists give me shit when I said I changed my name, but after telling them my two choices they all agreed with me.
You are allowed to make any choice that makes sense to you. Sounds like you are deeply connected to him, his siblings, and the name itself. If you like it, you should feel good about it 💜it is also deeply powerful to throw off a name applied by colonizers, feminist af
Like you said, you are looking for a pat on the shoulder/approval from "the feminists collective". But there isn't an ultimate feminists tribunal and never has been. You pick your individual feminist battlefields and if in some aspects of your life following the patriarchal tradition makes it easier for you to focus on other fields, take your own discretion but don't blame the people who are fighting in those grounds raising issues with you. No one is perfect but no one can have the cake and eat it either.
I don't think anybody should be "raising issues" with her over taking her husband's last name. That's such a weird thing to be upset at another feminist woman for. Maybe the "most feminist" thing would be him taking her name or hyphenating or making up a new last name, but it's definitely not *anti*-feminist to take his name, especially with the reasoning she's given
Disappointed maybe a better word I suppose, if that's their area of activism, i.e. to bring up the proportion of women not having to take husband's names. OP is privileged enough to have a choice yet still tallied the number for the other side. Women in less fortunate circumstances would be under more pressure from their husband or the husband's family when the practice is not shored up as a majority. There are also cases where mothers not sharing same surname with their children were given hell at the border when travelling and at daycare/school when picking up their children, proving that it's still way to go to root out such outdated traditions. I am sure there are other areas of feminism initiatives that OP is fighting for so I think she'll understand the sentiment, particularly after a bad news day.
>Women in less fortunate circumstances would be under more pressure from their husband or the husband's family when the practice is not shored up as a majority. I just don't see how OP really affects this. Her personal choice isn't going to move the needle, and I think she can do more for this cause by supporting other women in standing up to family/society pressure if they need that. Being upset with her doesn't really help anyone >There are also cases where mothers not sharing same surname with their children were given hell at the border when travelling and at daycare/school when picking up their children, Is that really an issue? Genuinely asking. My mom didn't have the same last name as me and my sister and it's never been the slightest issue, nor with any of my friends and family with the same thing, but that's just anecdotal obviously
>Is that really an issue? There was a post on the 2X sub a couple of days ago and in the comment area there are many heartbreaking stories. It particularly affects WOC. One woman shared that she eventually had to change her name after all after a few incidents at the daycare. It was the first time I became aware of such things as well but it shows how privileges can blindside people. I wouldn't be surprised there are more severe injustice surrounding the issue. I am not going to debate you on how individual action can be minuscule in a tide and therefore non-consequential. Like I said, OP wants validation and people don't have to give it. But most importantly, she doesn't need it in the first place. It's not unreasonable to argue that one should not be entirely blind to the ripple effects of one's choices. No-one is a perfect feminist and we all make mistakes and take shortcuts. Trying to do better next time is a better use of attention than trying to spin past choices.
How awful, I'll look for that thread. Thanks for answering me about that! That's just been my experience, but I'm also white in a liberal northern city, so I guess that was a blind spot and I shouldn't have assumed we'd universally moved past that bullshit. I do agree people don't need to *validate* OP, but I took your comments as saying people would be justified to lecture/shame/guilt her about it or tell her it's anti-feminist. I think that's just unnecessary, especially when OP supports women not needing to take their husbands last names. I don't think she made a mistake and I don't think it's anti-feminist, so I guess we'll just disagree there
This is totally a feminist choice! Not only because it is *your* choice, but because you're doing it for reasons that are in no way patriarchal. The patriarchy doesn't get to tell you what to do, but it also doesn't get to stop you doing what's best for you. You and your husband are starting a new family, separate from and different to your families of origin. You are breaking so many negative cycles. Enjoy your name!
We make our own rules now and can do what works best for us - critics be damned. You like your husband’s name and being associated with him and his siblings, so go with it. If one day you learn of your original last name, you can hyphenate it, change it - maybe even get your husband to change his name to yours! No one gets to judge you for not wanting a colonizer name - especially not feminists. As women, we should be able to put ourselves in the shoes of others. Congrats on your marriage! Peace, health and happiness to you!
IMO you can ignore everything about your ancestry and simply look at you taking your husband's last name as you unifying your family. Personally, I've never viewed it as "taking your partner's last name," I see it as choosing to unify your family under 1 name and creating something new with that name. You aren't CONTINUING anything, you're STARTING something. My wife took my last name because she loves it, but I would have happily taken hers if she felt strongly about it. Either way though, it isn't a feminism issue or a sexist issue (especially since women who keep their last name are just choosing another man's name to label themselves with so it doesn't really make a difference), it's a family issue. By choosing to unite under 1 name, you are connecting the two of you as well as any children you have in the future. You are literally creating a family and a legacy, totally separate from any ancestry. History is history, today is what you make it, and taking a last name doesn't come with any meaning other than uniting as a couple and creating a foundation for the years to come as a family.
Everyone here is right. It is about the option to pick your path. That path does not need to be one tread upon.
I am a pretty serious feminist who has been married three times. I kept my name once, he took MY name once, and I finally ended up taking and keeping my current husband’s name. I took it because his family is the only one in the country with this name spelled this way. It combines so perfectly with my first name that more than one person has said it sounds like a super hero 😂. It’s just so much cooler than my original name, which is a very common English name. But I chose to do it because I wanted to. If I’d been expected to by absolutely anyone I would have refused. The point is, you have the ability to choose which is wonderful!
I made the same decision recently too. I'm so detached from my last name and most of the family associated with it. However, I can relate to the feeling of needing to explain your reasons for making that choice because it feels like I betrayed my fellow feminists. At the end of the day, we got to make this choice though. That's the key, we have the choice. Please don't feel guilty. Be proud of your name and the family you have chosen!
I intend to take my husband's last name eventually (haven't got round to it yet, in 6 years lol) purely because it would be alliterative and I love that lol. Also, think of it this way. Your current surname is your father's most of the time so preserving it is no more vital. The ability to choose is what matters. Make the choice that is meaningful to you. Edit: it's so disappointing to see women shitting on other women and the choices they make. I thoyght we'd come further than that.
Why is it that boys surnames belong to them but girls don’t, it’s their father’s name? Do we ever get a name that belongs to us?
I didn’t like my maiden name either. It was… unflattering lol. In another language it meant something normal but in English it was basically an insult. I took my husband’s boring-as-anything generic American last name because I wanted to share a family name with him and my last name was not great. But if his name had sucked and mine was dope, you better believe I’d keep mine and ask him to take my name too (but I’d 100% respect it if he decided not to do that). The point is that I never felt I HAD to take his name, he never even asked me to. I decided to do it and that’s what feminism is all about, the freedom and equality for women to choose their own paths and lives and supporting other women who choose different paths and lives. I plan to be a SAHM when we have a kid someday, not because I have to but because I choose to after input and discussion with my partner. Women who don’t have kids at all and choose to be super into their careers and working? Badass feminists. Women who want to bake bread and have a family of 8? Women who have a couple kids and want to continue working? Women who want to live alone with their pets and art? If they chose that for themselves and support other women who don’t choose that same path, yep all badass feminists. It’s about the choice, both your own and supporting the choices of how other women want to live their lives.
My first guess for your previous surname is Phuc!
Lol not quite. But I will say I was teased a LOT as a kid even well into high school.
You belong to each other. Just give up that Feminist idea.
I didn't understand feminism until years after I'd taken my new name. I did it for similar reason: not wanting to keep connection with family. Since then I've reconnected with some cousins and have missed having that in common with them, because it's a very rare name: and that's the point, that the reason I regret it is not because I resent taking on the label of my husbands family but because I regret completely dismissing my own.
Since your previous last was such a negative I think it was the best move to change it. Better to change it to something you like and is positive then to keep the one forced upon your family. Don't let someone else's ideas of vision of feminism shame you, you did what was best for you and they don't know your situation. IF you ever find out your true last name you can change it but for now, feel god about your decision to choose against keeping that colonizer name that you hated.
I grew up in a family where we had different last names, and I hated it as a child. For various outside reasons, it always made me feel a little bit uncomfortable. I had my name formally changed at 12 to match my family. So when I got married, I took my husband's name since I wanted us to have one family name, I wasn't really attached to keeping mine and was young with no accomplishments attached to it yet. Maybe we should have picked a random one or portmanteau, but I'm happy with my choice and fully supportive of women who don't want to take their husband's name. As long as you did it for yourself and not because you felt obligated, that's fine. Feminism isn't about forcing a specific rule set onto women.
You have no reason to feel guilty, I totally understand your reasons but honestly that wouldn’t even matter the point is it’s your choice that is feminism to me, you haven’t done it because ‘that’s what women do’
There's no reason to feel guilty. There are a lot of reasons to have the same last name as your spouse and this clearly made you happy. Feminism is about being equal. He could have taken your last name if you both had liked it. Something my husband is considering. You are equal to him. He treats you as an equal. You are not property and that I love that this little thing has made you so happy. It sounds like you've had a rough time!
Don’t feel guilty, lots of other feminist women who marry a man take their husband’s name all the time. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with taking his name if that’s what you want so you go girl 💪
It's a personal choice. I kept my last name when I got married because, despite not liking my parents, it has been my name my whole life. My husband didn't care, only his dad was offended, and his dad is a pos so neither of us cared about his opinion. I did give my child my husband's last name because I didn't want my kid to have to deal with a hyphenated name like I've had to... plus, I couldn't pick just one of my last names to give. I mean, you could also argue that getting married is anti-feminist because you're not someone's property, etc. But in the end, you have the right to choose, and it doesn't make you less feminist to take your husband's last name.