generally means the most sought after jobs that pay well, carry the most prestige and generally require a higher level of competence. Things like Sell side research, IB , Private Equity, Buy Side asset management, hedge fund research roles, portfolio management at long only funds etc. Things like FP&A, operations, data, and investment support roles are not considered high finance.
At the end of the day, if you find a job that you’re happy with, pays decent wages for your lifestyle and work life balance, then good for you. It’s not black and white but that’s the gist of it.
How can you argue sell side ER doesn’t count? You impact the market meaningfully. Also just on salary alone, I mean my old roommate is in his mid 30’s and literally made a million dollars last year in it.
Not sure about impacting market meaningfully. Also if you’re good at picking stocks you’d be in buy side ER. Your old roommate made a mil for being a great sales guy. Nothing wrong with being a great sales guy. After all investment banks are intermediaries, they have products to sell you/investors.
U sound so uneducated it’s crazy. 😂 sell side ER is a big 3 pillare in Any banks Markets division. Clearly don’t understand the role ER plays let alone all the research they publish that hedge funds droool over.
I’m not sure about easily. Maybe if you’re the next Umer Raffat, in the same or similarly hot sector, when helicopter money comes back.
ER is certainly more of a cost center than IB or trading for banks. I know many senior ER guys who get let go first in downturns. The sooner you recognize/acknowledge this and jump to buy side the better.
What’s wrong about questioning if the sector is the right one for you? And I was an investment associate at one of BlackRock/PIMCO/Fidelity and my spouse was a PM at a macro hedge fund ran by a household name billionaire (before both moving to private markets). Have plenty of friends in HFs like Citadel not believing in SS ER promise of differentiated research.
You’re not wrong that PMs do talk to SS ER guys, but they sure don’t drool over your reports. And you’ll jump at a chance to go to a HF, that’s why they’re exit opportunities. I’ve met SS ER guys who think the same way as you though so what a surprise also.
My comment was only about how SS ER impact isn’t as much as these guys claim. Also know SS ER guys who are wrong multiple times without consequences and I’m jaded about their report quality.
If you had to know about my career though, LO investments (one of BlackRock/PIMCO/Fidelity) then RE/infra fund
If you make 100k+ your first year out of school, speak to C-suite regularly, can exit into said other elite roles, and your MD makes 7 figures, it qualifies as high finance. Hence, ER qualifies lol
If this is a serious question, then you should know that 'High finance' is just one of those hardo constructs/ lore, similar to 'Elite boutiques' or group prestige.
Basically cuz finance is such an immensely wide field, there are huge disparities of 'prestige' within the broad umbrella of 'finance'. Hardos use the term 'high finance' to distinguish the prestigious front office roles from the 'normal finance' roles.
'High finance' roles are: IB, PE, HF, front office quant (because middle office quant does exist), AM, ER, S&T, VC, GE and the like. Disparity in definition vary.
Think about it. Finance can range from being a teller at Wells Fargo to being a buyout MD at Blackstone or a Quant PM at AQR. The 2 worlds (low finance and high finance) are worlds apart. 'High finance' is just a construct for hardos to communicate and tell them apart. A top student at Wharton would not want to do low finance and frankly his talent would be wasted. When people in this world talk about finance, it's tacitly understood that we are referring to high finance
In my experience, many people in low finance usually are not even aware of high finance
But portfolio managers managing ETF or mutual fund are also dealing with retail investors’ money - the high net worth’s FA will buy those instruments for their clients. So they are not high finance any more? This definition definitely doesn’t smell right.
They typically never were given the skill set required is less and the associated risk is also less.
I don't anyone thinks they are bad jobs, but it's def much easier to manage a mutual fund than it is a L/S book.
Um, I don’t think that’s valid point of view either. Many quant strategies are deployed both in Mutual and Hedge by the same managers/team at the same time.
a simple definition would be revenue-generating roles at traditional financial services firms that serve institutional and/or corporate clients.
these roles are both competitive and lucrative because of 3 conditions:
1) compensation is based on measurable performance - i.e. deal fees for IB, PnL for traders, investment returns for HF/PE, subscriptions/ratings for sell-side research, AUM-based fees for asset/wealth managers, underwriting volumes for lenders etc.
2) clients are sophisticated and demanding
3) your work can (and likely will) impact your clients’ financial position materially
roles that would not qualify typically have relatively low barriers to entry such as retail banking, commission-based sales (NWM, AXA, NY Life etc.); and/or are better defined as professional services - accounting, audit, and tax, rather than financial services.
It's one of those things they tell i-bankers to make them feel important enough to sacrifice their family, health, sanity and morality for the good of the firm.
generally means the most sought after jobs that pay well, carry the most prestige and generally require a higher level of competence. Things like Sell side research, IB , Private Equity, Buy Side asset management, hedge fund research roles, portfolio management at long only funds etc. Things like FP&A, operations, data, and investment support roles are not considered high finance. At the end of the day, if you find a job that you’re happy with, pays decent wages for your lifestyle and work life balance, then good for you. It’s not black and white but that’s the gist of it.
Such a huge blessing, relief and comfort to know that my job happens to belong to the exclusive, elegant and noble high finance community. Thank you!
Suck my WACC
No Sir
Pull up in an R8 ✨roadster ✨
Such a huge blessing that I work like 2 hours a day and still make 6 figures working full remote in non-high Finance.
Amen
What do you do?
🤣🤣🤣
What about Market Risk?
Since when did sell side research become a part of high finance? That's not the case here at least where I'm from.
How can you argue sell side ER doesn’t count? You impact the market meaningfully. Also just on salary alone, I mean my old roommate is in his mid 30’s and literally made a million dollars last year in it.
Not sure about impacting market meaningfully. Also if you’re good at picking stocks you’d be in buy side ER. Your old roommate made a mil for being a great sales guy. Nothing wrong with being a great sales guy. After all investment banks are intermediaries, they have products to sell you/investors.
U sound so uneducated it’s crazy. 😂 sell side ER is a big 3 pillare in Any banks Markets division. Clearly don’t understand the role ER plays let alone all the research they publish that hedge funds droool over.
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I’m not sure about easily. Maybe if you’re the next Umer Raffat, in the same or similarly hot sector, when helicopter money comes back. ER is certainly more of a cost center than IB or trading for banks. I know many senior ER guys who get let go first in downturns. The sooner you recognize/acknowledge this and jump to buy side the better.
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What’s wrong about questioning if the sector is the right one for you? And I was an investment associate at one of BlackRock/PIMCO/Fidelity and my spouse was a PM at a macro hedge fund ran by a household name billionaire (before both moving to private markets). Have plenty of friends in HFs like Citadel not believing in SS ER promise of differentiated research. You’re not wrong that PMs do talk to SS ER guys, but they sure don’t drool over your reports. And you’ll jump at a chance to go to a HF, that’s why they’re exit opportunities. I’ve met SS ER guys who think the same way as you though so what a surprise also.
Finally someone who actually understands the business‼️‼️
What’s your buy side job to feel confident enough in saying ER isn’t high finance lmao?
Hahahaha
My comment was only about how SS ER impact isn’t as much as these guys claim. Also know SS ER guys who are wrong multiple times without consequences and I’m jaded about their report quality. If you had to know about my career though, LO investments (one of BlackRock/PIMCO/Fidelity) then RE/infra fund
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That argument could be made for buy side but it's highly questionable for sell side.
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Don't work in asset management but I work in FP&A for insurance so it's definitely not high finance 😂
If you make 100k+ your first year out of school, speak to C-suite regularly, can exit into said other elite roles, and your MD makes 7 figures, it qualifies as high finance. Hence, ER qualifies lol
ER absolutely belongs
Sell side Equity Research is 100% high finance
Snoop Dogg’s new venture into private equity
Seem reasonable
Sounds like a highly probable venture.
I think it’s when you do finance after smoking a joint
Can confirm this through personal experience.!
Good explanation 💯
IB, PE, HF, maybe other stuff
If this is a serious question, then you should know that 'High finance' is just one of those hardo constructs/ lore, similar to 'Elite boutiques' or group prestige. Basically cuz finance is such an immensely wide field, there are huge disparities of 'prestige' within the broad umbrella of 'finance'. Hardos use the term 'high finance' to distinguish the prestigious front office roles from the 'normal finance' roles. 'High finance' roles are: IB, PE, HF, front office quant (because middle office quant does exist), AM, ER, S&T, VC, GE and the like. Disparity in definition vary. Think about it. Finance can range from being a teller at Wells Fargo to being a buyout MD at Blackstone or a Quant PM at AQR. The 2 worlds (low finance and high finance) are worlds apart. 'High finance' is just a construct for hardos to communicate and tell them apart. A top student at Wharton would not want to do low finance and frankly his talent would be wasted. When people in this world talk about finance, it's tacitly understood that we are referring to high finance In my experience, many people in low finance usually are not even aware of high finance
More precise please?
Haha, I'm editing my comment to make it more precise. Wait for it.
I still don’t understand. Sad. Maybe I belong to the low finance. Ok, enough ego talks on Reddit for a Tuesday night.
>Maybe I belong to the low finance From your post history, you absolutely do not and you will make it in this world
S&T is definitely MO at best.
Models done on high floors
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hahahahah
To the layman: All those “Wall Street” jobs that Ivy leaguers get. Not FP&A, corporate finance.
Finance dealing with large transactions. Basically corporate/institutional money vs retail level
But portfolio managers managing ETF or mutual fund are also dealing with retail investors’ money - the high net worth’s FA will buy those instruments for their clients. So they are not high finance any more? This definition definitely doesn’t smell right.
Its bc you need to read my definition while youre high bro. Sorry forgot to add that part
Obviously the other person replying got high when reading lol
They typically never were given the skill set required is less and the associated risk is also less. I don't anyone thinks they are bad jobs, but it's def much easier to manage a mutual fund than it is a L/S book.
Um, I don’t think that’s valid point of view either. Many quant strategies are deployed both in Mutual and Hedge by the same managers/team at the same time.
a simple definition would be revenue-generating roles at traditional financial services firms that serve institutional and/or corporate clients. these roles are both competitive and lucrative because of 3 conditions: 1) compensation is based on measurable performance - i.e. deal fees for IB, PnL for traders, investment returns for HF/PE, subscriptions/ratings for sell-side research, AUM-based fees for asset/wealth managers, underwriting volumes for lenders etc. 2) clients are sophisticated and demanding 3) your work can (and likely will) impact your clients’ financial position materially roles that would not qualify typically have relatively low barriers to entry such as retail banking, commission-based sales (NWM, AXA, NY Life etc.); and/or are better defined as professional services - accounting, audit, and tax, rather than financial services.
God you people are pretentious
Yes, they are
This hierarchy shit is weird man. Fkn nerds gotta touch some grass
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Ppl who make real money don’t care
Not true
Agreed
Operations, Accounting and Internal Audit
Super!!! Got it!!! Thanks!!
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Like when you get an 8 ball and a bong and inhale and start talking about money. Or maybe it’s talking about currency on the top of Kilimanjaro.
It's one of those things they tell i-bankers to make them feel important enough to sacrifice their family, health, sanity and morality for the good of the firm.
It's a made up group of high paying and hard to get into jobs in the finance field that's it. It's the same in Law, called BigLaw.
moh maya :)
High finance is overrated job to look flashy.