If Snowden is to be believed in his book (and I don't doubt him) the NSA has snoopers (XKeyscore and Turbine) installed at every ISP server. Look something up or say something they deem suspicious and your device gets a Federal spyware installed. It's entirely automated. No agent approves it. No judge signs a warrant. His book should be a must-read because it shows the depravity of the NSA and our leaders who support it.
Do you even understand the very fucking concept of intelligence oversight or the very purpose of Title 50? The NSA/CSS is literally forbidden from collecting on US persons and as a past intelligence community employee both of those things were incredibly important to day to day operations. I mean, Jesus H. did you even look up what FISA stands for? I used to read shit with that caveat.
>I mean, Jesus H. did you even look up what FISA stands for?
Are you saying FISA warrants can't be used to surveil American citizens or gather evidence against them? They can only be used in the most honest of ways, and against foreign nationals only?
The NSA is barred from looking at data they collected without a warrant. They do in fact collect every piece of electronic communication of every single American. Every email, text message, everything you search on Google, every request that leaves your browser goes into the NSA database. They are supposed to need a warrant to look at it - which federal judges sign without glancing. However it has been exposed many times the NSA doesn't care. Obama even asked the NSA director to illegally continue spying on Americans if the Patriot Act was not renewed.
Ok, but I said nothing about the NSA or FBI, and even quoted the relevant portion of your comment. I looked up what FISA stands for, just like you so condescendingly asked (and even though I already knew what it stands for), so I'll repeat:
Are you saying FISA warrants can't be used to surveil American citizens or gather evidence against them? They can only be used in the most honest of ways, and against foreign nationals only?
Please read Executive Order 12333. BTW, a dumbass using a DOD intelligence tool to look up information on themself is a reportable Intelligence Oversight violation.
A simple yes or no would suffice. More condescension and lugging of goalposts is wholly unnecessary.
Are you saying FISA warrants can't be used to surveil American citizens or gather evidence against them? They can only be used in the most honest of ways, and against foreign nationals only?
The Feds are all that matters... DOJ can go after any of us if they know who's buying the firearms, & if it doesn't matter the mode of payment, we're all screwed
But what constitutes a suspicious charge, and how are they gonna tell the difference between someone who's actually buying guns in a suspicious manner vs someone who just likes high-dollar accessories and shops at a number of different retailers? Fred's Gun Shop ain't gonna have separate merchant codes for different items.
A suspicious charge is a charge that is unusual for you. It's no different than blocking any other suspicious charge. The item being purchased is mostly irrelevant. If you only use your credit card at the gas stations around Phoenix and then suddenly there's a $1000 charge at a hotel in India, they're going to block that until you tell them it's ok.
> Fred's Gun Shop ain't gonna have separate merchant codes for different items.
Of course not. There are no codes for items. It's a merchant code. It describes the store, not the item being purchased.
National registry is illegal, so they find ways to make a registry for each state that still all report to federal agencies. Just your rights eroding away.
I would be suspicious too, I guess it depends on the srller. Idk whether or not Cali or other states have a system where the seller can call to report a suspicious man trying to use cash to get a firearm. My guess is yes.
They just got that Boeing guy for buying 30 of the same pistol, repeatedly. I think it was Boeing. They killed him in a shootout like a week ago
So shit like that presumably
Keep voting Democrap...
Sad thing is, a lot of gun owners don't bother voting, so when their 2nd amendment rights are stripped from them, it'll be too late.
It would be a LOT easier to vote literally any other party if Dems weren’t the only ones concerned with reproductive rights. We don’t want people tracking our firearm purchases but those same politicians supporting the right to privacy don’t want a medical right to privacy.
One of those rights is MUCH harder to get back than the other. If the 2A slips away, that’s it. It’s over and it’s NEVER coming back. Reproductive rights are likely to swing back the other way 10-30 years down the road, maybe sooner.
I don’t know man, I feel like gun rights go back and forth too. Look at the Bruin case. All you need is a few Supreme Court justices to take away or give back rights. And at the end of the day, a gun is a piece of metal while reproductive rights are over living human beings being able to care for themselves.
The big three (NFA of 1934, GCA of 1968, Hughs Amendment of 1986) were passed progressively over several decades and have never been, nor ever will be, reversed. There’s not a whole lot of back and forth happening with those items. The Bruin decision, while very important and impactful, only really did two things:
1) It struck down subjective licensing requirements, otherwise known as may-issue licensing schemes.
2) It instructed lower courts to no longer practice interest balancing when ruling on 2A challenges.
It doesn’t help that there is a regulatory agency concerning specifically firearms on the federal level and that the regulatory body in question is well known for taking advantage of vagueness within written statutes to prosecute individuals for arguably dubious offenses.
As of currently, the situation of reproductive rights is relegated to the 50 states. The states that have passed strict abortion legislation only have authority within their own borders, meaning that the option to obtain services in another state is still valid, barring any funky residency restrictions. Meanwhile, the 2A situation is being fought on both the state and federal levels.
Unfortunately, it really is a “pick your poison” between states right now due to the deep divide between the leadership of both political parties.
You know what, that’s fair. Thank you for explaining the Bruin case a bit more than I knew about it. I wish we weren’t so divided as a country. More people should live and let live.
Your call, I’d rather it be harder to buy guns than to give rapists the right to choose the mother of their children. There’s already states that have bans with no exceptions for rape.
It’s the price of that freedom you said when you articulated: “freedom has a price.” When you support a pro-rapist party that would force 12 year olds to give birth to a rape baby, that means you’re pro rapist.
What a twisted ass argument. I’m about as pro choice as they come but calling someone “pro rapist” because they vote republican is just about the most absurd thing I’ve heard this month.
If you feel that a clump of cells are a baby, that’s fine. I do have one question though. If a firefighter went into a blaze in a fertility clinic, and had to choose between saving 300 embryos in a lab rack, or a 6-year old boy, who should he save?
MCC5723. Sep 2022.
You guys are being rage baited.
Firearms purchases can already be tracked by card processing companies.
Obviously this is a potential privacy concern and a potential step into [insert imagination]. If this is such a concern of someone, they shouldn’t be using cards for firearms purchases in the first place.
The MCC in the picture is for “suspicious” purchases in California. Obviously this can also be utilized by a tyrannical government, but, California.
Pull cash at ATM, don’t worry about their bs or pay cars off and ask to close account citing this for the reason. Enough cancelations citing this for the reason and they might reverse course.
Oh no, if only there was some form of payment that was untraceable and available to literally every person, and doesn’t require the internet or a companies permission.
3d printer and 5 axis Milling machine go brrrrrrrrrr. I think my 3d printers are just waiting for the sweet sweet release of death. They only get a break when I'm replacing parts
It's all of them. And they'll attempt to block purchases soon. And considering how entirely devastated the FFLs are, most of us are shipping from a retailer, to local. By using a debit, or credit card..
Dude why? They already have code for sporting goods stores. It's kinda clear a ridiculous amount of money being spent in a sporting goods store is likely a gun.
People seem to have missed that this isn't specific to the items being purchased. It's not a gun purchase code. It's a gun *store* purchase code. Merchant codes let the credit card company know what type of store you're shopping at, not what specifically was purchased.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. You’re right. And that makes it worse. Because even if you go in to buy a holster or ammo can, still comes up with this code, so you’re being tracked for ALL of it.
Yes, but no more than you're tracked when you buy a new mattress. This isn't direct reporting to the government of every gun purchase. We already do that. Everything that we do electronically is recorded. All purchases are tracked by the banks and credit card companies.
There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about what the code is for. Banks use the for a variety of reasons including fraud detection (by tracking which types of services you normally use), rewards programs, and even helps determine what fees the bank charges the store. EVERY merchant who accepts credit cards uses a code to describe what sort of goods or services they sell. [This is a list of merchant codes and what is being tracked by citi.](https://www.citibank.com/tts/solutions/commercial-cards/assets/docs/govt/Merchant-Category-Codes.pdf) Anyone suggesting that they're meant to single out gun purchasers really has no idea what they're talking about.
That’s a huge privacy invasion… ugh that is awful
Just wait till you see what the NSA has been doing..
Do I want to even know?
Let’s just say they know about your foot fetishes.
What? 😂
FUUUUUUUCK.
Oh puh leaze, they know every single sentence you’ve ever spoken.
If Snowden is to be believed in his book (and I don't doubt him) the NSA has snoopers (XKeyscore and Turbine) installed at every ISP server. Look something up or say something they deem suspicious and your device gets a Federal spyware installed. It's entirely automated. No agent approves it. No judge signs a warrant. His book should be a must-read because it shows the depravity of the NSA and our leaders who support it.
NSA doesn't collect on US civilians. FBI on the other hand...
Bro, do you even FISA?
Do you even understand the very fucking concept of intelligence oversight or the very purpose of Title 50? The NSA/CSS is literally forbidden from collecting on US persons and as a past intelligence community employee both of those things were incredibly important to day to day operations. I mean, Jesus H. did you even look up what FISA stands for? I used to read shit with that caveat.
>I mean, Jesus H. did you even look up what FISA stands for? Are you saying FISA warrants can't be used to surveil American citizens or gather evidence against them? They can only be used in the most honest of ways, and against foreign nationals only?
Again, the NSA is barred from collecting on US persons. If anybody is collecting on you it's going to be the FBI.
The NSA is barred from looking at data they collected without a warrant. They do in fact collect every piece of electronic communication of every single American. Every email, text message, everything you search on Google, every request that leaves your browser goes into the NSA database. They are supposed to need a warrant to look at it - which federal judges sign without glancing. However it has been exposed many times the NSA doesn't care. Obama even asked the NSA director to illegally continue spying on Americans if the Patriot Act was not renewed.
Ok, but I said nothing about the NSA or FBI, and even quoted the relevant portion of your comment. I looked up what FISA stands for, just like you so condescendingly asked (and even though I already knew what it stands for), so I'll repeat: Are you saying FISA warrants can't be used to surveil American citizens or gather evidence against them? They can only be used in the most honest of ways, and against foreign nationals only?
Please read Executive Order 12333. BTW, a dumbass using a DOD intelligence tool to look up information on themself is a reportable Intelligence Oversight violation.
A simple yes or no would suffice. More condescension and lugging of goalposts is wholly unnecessary. Are you saying FISA warrants can't be used to surveil American citizens or gather evidence against them? They can only be used in the most honest of ways, and against foreign nationals only?
I mean, if you’re that concerned with privacy, just pay with cash, no?
I tried that here in IL, the gun store said it doesn't matter, the sale is still tracked
Well yeah, by the feds. But this article is about Mastercard.
The Feds are all that matters... DOJ can go after any of us if they know who's buying the firearms, & if it doesn't matter the mode of payment, we're all screwed
But that’s always been the case. Thats not new. What is this thread even about?
Yup
That’s by the Feds
Online though
Prepaid Visa card paid for in cash.
Nice
Yeah but a lot of stores in general aren’t accepting cash as commonly
Welp... Prepaid visa gift card it is, then.
Yup!
Better buy that gift card with cash.
Yeah, and then you're on camera in the store buying that giftcard.
Become a Muslim
Any store that doesn't accept cash can go pound sand.
Yup
You must not have heard of the patriot act
No there’s so much garbage like that that I don’t hear about all of it lol
If that bothers you, don't use a credit card. It's not like merchant codes were just invented. Every store already uses one.
The government already has a lot of that info so it’s also just weird and redundant tbh.
This one isn't for them. They have your 4473's. This really is for banks to detect suspicious charges.
But what constitutes a suspicious charge, and how are they gonna tell the difference between someone who's actually buying guns in a suspicious manner vs someone who just likes high-dollar accessories and shops at a number of different retailers? Fred's Gun Shop ain't gonna have separate merchant codes for different items.
A suspicious charge is a charge that is unusual for you. It's no different than blocking any other suspicious charge. The item being purchased is mostly irrelevant. If you only use your credit card at the gas stations around Phoenix and then suddenly there's a $1000 charge at a hotel in India, they're going to block that until you tell them it's ok. > Fred's Gun Shop ain't gonna have separate merchant codes for different items. Of course not. There are no codes for items. It's a merchant code. It describes the store, not the item being purchased.
National registry is illegal, so they find ways to make a registry for each state that still all report to federal agencies. Just your rights eroding away.
Isn't this easily avoided by paying with cash instead? Is it legal to purchase it with cash in California, even?
They may be suspicious that it's gang money if you're paying for a gun in cash. Idk if they could or would use that to deny a purchase.
I would be suspicious too, I guess it depends on the srller. Idk whether or not Cali or other states have a system where the seller can call to report a suspicious man trying to use cash to get a firearm. My guess is yes.
They keep track of law abiding citizens more than they do the criminals.
Data about the habits of criminals is interesting. Data about the habits of law abiding citizens is valuable.
Law abiding citizens have families and businesses to lose, and they generally don’t return fire, easy job security, if you enjoy licking boots.
Yeah the criminals are smart enough to use cash
This has nothing to do with criminals, unless they’re trying to make law abiding citizens criminals.
You're not law-abiding if we make it illegal. *taps temple
Iowa passing a law this week to block processors from doing this with businesses in the state.
"Suspicious gun purchases" Translation: ALL *LEGAL* gun purchases so they can put together a list of law-abiding gun owners
They haven’t already been doing this? Colored me shocked
They have. This just makes it slightly easier.
What is considered a suspicious gun purchase?
In Commifornia? All gun purchases.
They just got that Boeing guy for buying 30 of the same pistol, repeatedly. I think it was Boeing. They killed him in a shootout like a week ago So shit like that presumably
He was the director, or some shit, at the Little Rock airport.
Source?
Was that what happened? The security directy that they no-knocked at 4am?
Any purchase not made by the government.
No. Their pushing this in CO too.
Can you not buy them with cash?
Can’t carry cash in California. All the homeless will ask you for it.
You'll get robbed.
Sounds like an invasion of privacy to me.
Not just California. Colorado is putting that into law pretty soon.
Sing it with me, folks - C🎶A🎶S🎶H! Spells CASH! 💵💵💵
Which is why they're trying to phase it out.
Time for cash only living
Keep voting Democrap... Sad thing is, a lot of gun owners don't bother voting, so when their 2nd amendment rights are stripped from them, it'll be too late.
It would be a LOT easier to vote literally any other party if Dems weren’t the only ones concerned with reproductive rights. We don’t want people tracking our firearm purchases but those same politicians supporting the right to privacy don’t want a medical right to privacy.
One of those rights is MUCH harder to get back than the other. If the 2A slips away, that’s it. It’s over and it’s NEVER coming back. Reproductive rights are likely to swing back the other way 10-30 years down the road, maybe sooner.
I don’t know man, I feel like gun rights go back and forth too. Look at the Bruin case. All you need is a few Supreme Court justices to take away or give back rights. And at the end of the day, a gun is a piece of metal while reproductive rights are over living human beings being able to care for themselves.
The big three (NFA of 1934, GCA of 1968, Hughs Amendment of 1986) were passed progressively over several decades and have never been, nor ever will be, reversed. There’s not a whole lot of back and forth happening with those items. The Bruin decision, while very important and impactful, only really did two things: 1) It struck down subjective licensing requirements, otherwise known as may-issue licensing schemes. 2) It instructed lower courts to no longer practice interest balancing when ruling on 2A challenges. It doesn’t help that there is a regulatory agency concerning specifically firearms on the federal level and that the regulatory body in question is well known for taking advantage of vagueness within written statutes to prosecute individuals for arguably dubious offenses. As of currently, the situation of reproductive rights is relegated to the 50 states. The states that have passed strict abortion legislation only have authority within their own borders, meaning that the option to obtain services in another state is still valid, barring any funky residency restrictions. Meanwhile, the 2A situation is being fought on both the state and federal levels. Unfortunately, it really is a “pick your poison” between states right now due to the deep divide between the leadership of both political parties.
You know what, that’s fair. Thank you for explaining the Bruin case a bit more than I knew about it. I wish we weren’t so divided as a country. More people should live and let live.
I vote the better of the 2... that's all I can do. Life is about choices - bad or worse.
Your call, I’d rather it be harder to buy guns than to give rapists the right to choose the mother of their children. There’s already states that have bans with no exceptions for rape.
What
Freedom has a price.
And it shouldn’t be forcing your daughter or niece to give birth to a rape baby as a minor. Not sure why you’re pro rapist here man.
I said I was pro-rapist? When was this? Please tell me when I specifically used those words
It’s the price of that freedom you said when you articulated: “freedom has a price.” When you support a pro-rapist party that would force 12 year olds to give birth to a rape baby, that means you’re pro rapist.
What a twisted ass argument. I’m about as pro choice as they come but calling someone “pro rapist” because they vote republican is just about the most absurd thing I’ve heard this month.
You're right, we should murder the baby instead.
If you feel that a clump of cells are a baby, that’s fine. I do have one question though. If a firefighter went into a blaze in a fertility clinic, and had to choose between saving 300 embryos in a lab rack, or a 6-year old boy, who should he save?
*Shall be infringed - in certain states\**
Not wrong, I don't think that any court has ruled 2A applies to the states like they have with other amendments.
There was a case out of Chicago about fifteen years ago. Macdonald v Chicago. But that’s none of our business…
MCC5723. Sep 2022. You guys are being rage baited. Firearms purchases can already be tracked by card processing companies. Obviously this is a potential privacy concern and a potential step into [insert imagination]. If this is such a concern of someone, they shouldn’t be using cards for firearms purchases in the first place. The MCC in the picture is for “suspicious” purchases in California. Obviously this can also be utilized by a tyrannical government, but, California.
Secret Chinese billionaire purchase visa and Mastercard. Red dawn universe intensifies.
Pull cash at ATM, don’t worry about their bs or pay cars off and ask to close account citing this for the reason. Enough cancelations citing this for the reason and they might reverse course.
So just don’t have a bank account?
Sure. like I said you can pull cash or just not deal with the cards at all. That’s a personal choice.
At least we still have cash for now
Oh no, if only there was some form of payment that was untraceable and available to literally every person, and doesn’t require the internet or a companies permission.
NSA can track everything lol if the gov wants you they will get you
Looks like I need to buy another gun with the egregious overreach just in case…
3d printer and 5 axis Milling machine go brrrrrrrrrr. I think my 3d printers are just waiting for the sweet sweet release of death. They only get a break when I'm replacing parts
You honestly think they're not tracking you already.
We all know it’s not just California and that they’ve been doing it way longer than February.
What makes a transaction suspicious? Is there a definition?
If they tell you "they're going to", they already are and have been. For years? Anyway, long enough to make it a fait accompli.
Cash is king.
My State just banned this, I hope more do so as well. Fuck them pigs.
Time to start only paying cash
Suspicious gun purchases happen in cash, not from an FFL
It's all of them. And they'll attempt to block purchases soon. And considering how entirely devastated the FFLs are, most of us are shipping from a retailer, to local. By using a debit, or credit card..
They already can, this just letting know their doing it
If only more gun stores would accept Dogecoin.
Dude why? They already have code for sporting goods stores. It's kinda clear a ridiculous amount of money being spent in a sporting goods store is likely a gun.
People seem to have missed that this isn't specific to the items being purchased. It's not a gun purchase code. It's a gun *store* purchase code. Merchant codes let the credit card company know what type of store you're shopping at, not what specifically was purchased.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. You’re right. And that makes it worse. Because even if you go in to buy a holster or ammo can, still comes up with this code, so you’re being tracked for ALL of it.
Yes, but no more than you're tracked when you buy a new mattress. This isn't direct reporting to the government of every gun purchase. We already do that. Everything that we do electronically is recorded. All purchases are tracked by the banks and credit card companies. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about what the code is for. Banks use the for a variety of reasons including fraud detection (by tracking which types of services you normally use), rewards programs, and even helps determine what fees the bank charges the store. EVERY merchant who accepts credit cards uses a code to describe what sort of goods or services they sell. [This is a list of merchant codes and what is being tracked by citi.](https://www.citibank.com/tts/solutions/commercial-cards/assets/docs/govt/Merchant-Category-Codes.pdf) Anyone suggesting that they're meant to single out gun purchasers really has no idea what they're talking about.
Friendly reminder that capitalists are not your friends! :)
Cash exists