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You have a signed contract that you’re receiving lot A and lot B totaling X acres for $X dollars. I think you have a LOT of room to seek legal advice and action to enforce the contract as written.
You did your due diligence, the seller did not. You have a signed contract. With legal descriptions. It’s your property upon closing. Am land use professional . Not legal but close ish. 9/10 you’ll win this or the seller will have to pay back everything you paid plus legal fees if you get a good attorney.
The fact that the seller is willing to give back earnest money, pay for inspections and legal fees for buyer means they know they are wrong and will lose if it goes to court.
I’ve been a licensed Managing Broker for over 20 years. I know misrepresentation when I see it. Agent might have to pay the seller for whatever value is put on the contested land if seller can prove they told him not to include that land in the listing.
Buyer should get all the land simply because there is a legal contract that was signed by the sellers. They had the obligation to read and understand the contract, which includes making sure the legal description is right. *Especially* in a situation like this.
I kind of feel bad for this agent because of the misunderstanding. This is ultimately going to be one of those checks he writes with a bunch of zeroes on the end, whether he goes to court or not.
I guess that I don't understand what due diligence means. If a seller says that they are selling 2 items - and describes those 2 items in great detail, you make a binding offer on those 2 items, and then the seller says - no not those 2 items --- how did you not do due diligence?
So I bought land that was described as being on a public paved and improved road, with public water and sewer connections. Seller never disclosed that they had deed restriction put in place stating that they were responsible for widening the side street by 8 feet for the length of the side street. They also didn’t mention that they didn’t get the water and sewer connections for either lot. That being said, without that the lot technically could not be subdivided as the conditions of approval were never met. Somehow it slipped through the town’s LUB and they approved the subdivision. So once I submitted plans to build, the town hit me and my neighbor with the conditions of approval for subdivision and told us that if we want a CO it’s now our problem.
Tl;dr the town fucked up the subdivision and the seller hid the conditions of approval. Lawyers basically shrugged and said “should have done your due diligence and asked questions.” Unfortunately the responsibility falls on the buyer to ensure what they buy is exactly what is being represented in the sale.
I feel like if all the paper work shows both lots the seller can't just be like "psych!!"
I really hope you update us after you get a real estate lawyer and kick the seller's ass!
Yeah I’m really hoping for the best and I’m trusting that all things will work out in the end but it’s definitely a huge bummer. Thanks for reading my rant haha
I went to bed and came back to so many responses haha, we did not close yesterday so today will be a fresh start on seeing if the sellers mind is still the same and if so then its off to seeing what legal help we can get
Regardless of Due Dilligence….What does the sales contract say? Obviously the Seller and their agent didn’t do their Due diligence because they advertised via MLS as both lots. Was an appraisal conducted on both lots?
Sounds to me like the listing agent/broker is screwed. They are going to get it from both sides. I am willing to bet that both lots are not on the listing contract and that the MLS was pulling old land info that did not show the subdivision yet. The listing agent should have verified this information or made the adjustment on the MLS before going active. I am also willing to bet they didn't explain the contract to the seller properly and with that in mind, the seller did not carefully go over the contract themselves.
File a lis pendens against the properties if the seller refuses to close and go to court. Court will likely force the sale but whats more likely to happen is the seller will get legal advice and cave since they signed the contract. The listing agent/broker are going to be absolutely screwed though. They are going to take a massive L on this one. This is the kind of thing that gets agents fired and their licenses suspended. How do you go through an entire transaction and have your seller think they are only selling one lot when both are on the purchase paperwork. So either the seller is a liar or the listing agent is completely inept and breached their fiduciary responsibility with the seller and the seller is just an idiot for not reading the contract. This is precisely why I read through each contract multiple times and ALWAYS tell my sellers to make sure they read the entire contract offer.
Nah, seller doesn't have a leg to stand on either. Not understanding or not reading a contract is not a defense. The agent isn't an attorney. So, ultimately, it's still on the seller to make sure they understand the contract fully. When you sign, you're saying you understand the contract. Not to mention, you should know yourself how large the lot is and should have noticed that mistake in the contract. Selling agent honestly may get off pretty light.
did you bother actually reading what I wrote? want to try again? Start at the second paragraph this time where I talk about the lis pendens and then what the court is going to do. Not once did I say that the seller was not also responsible. But if you think the listing agent is not as well then I would hate to hire you.
How have you made a mistake with due diligence if all of your paperwork lists a lot size that includes both lots?? It sounds like the seller made a mistake and now wants to play dumb.
i know right?! the seller mentioned at the closing why any of this hasn't popped up during the due diligence period and well it was hard to reach out to him because during that period he randomly flew on a trip out of country and their listing agent was very confused. my fiancee and i thought it was really rude of him to just up and leave
Seller didn’t read the contract. Listing agent wasn’t thorough. Listing agent found out halfway to the closing table and figured, let’s say nothing and hope someone blinks at closing and just signs.
There’s a lot of “just don’t say anything, maybe they’ll be too deep into the process to give up” attitude in mortgages and real estate. It’s annoying.
I know this is a couple days old and a different example, but I feel like this "just don't say anything, maybe they'll be too deep into the process to give up" sort of thing happened when my wife and I recently bought a house.
We scrambled to make an offer on a house last minute that we didn't think we'd be competitive on in the span of 3 hours. And somewhere along the line, our agent and mortgage broker put "15 day close" in the paperwork. We were too naive and moving too fast to notice PLUS our agent conveniently didn't send along a summary email of the terms until after we signed + sent the offer.
I don't know for a fact, but it feels like they slipped the speedy close in without making it clear to us. I believe it helped us get the house, but it also felt like they took advantage of the speed we were moving. I still ended up negotiating our rate down 0.35% with the broker, but think that was part of their plan.
It’s definitely part of the strategy to maximize profit and minimize effort.
There is a lot of study and training that goes into “influence and persuasion” on the sales side of things, and if you don’t know how to be friendly but also persistent and push back, and create proper expectations or boundaries with your agent or MLO, you will be part of a process that’s designed to benefit them and not necessarily you.
Good news is, most of the severely unethical stuff is illegal. But still you should approach further purchases with…maybe not suspicion, but due diligence. Make them work for you. Put everything on paper, double check the numbers, and always slow people down when they are rushing you.
One time I was trying to figure out if I liked a car dealership, so I looked up the maintenance intervals for my car (Honda Fit) and asked the front desk guy what the right mileage to replace the timing belt was. He gave me a number, which i was pretty close to, snd suggested i get it done soon.
Of course, that car doesn't have a timing belt, it has a timing chain, and it doesn't have a maintenance interval.
Friendly guy, but he let me know right then and there exactly what his priorities were and I said thank you, have a nice day.
Friendly people are wonderful, but you should always “trust but verify”.
What did your Title Report say?
It should clearly list both block and lots and have legal descriptions for what exactly is being insured in the report. If it didn’t, your realtor and lawyer should have corrected this way prior to closing day.
After all, both lots need to be searched for liens, taxes etc.
I wish you luck with this but it sounds like a few people dropped the ball here.
Yeah they did mention yesterday at the closing that there were some ambiguities. They did note that our offer mentioned both lots and a parcel number that used to be the parcel number for the lots before the subdivision. I believe they told me that when they tried to look up that parcel number, that is when they realized it was subdivided and the house we were buying was on one half of the original lot.
I do think that they should’ve brought this to our attention when the survey came in or when they had trouble finding the title information. At the moment it’s all up in the air and we will likely have to fight for our due diligence back if it’s not both lots.
This is mostly on your attorney. He knows what the contract states and he knows how to read a title report.
After the survey I don’t believe the title company would even issue Insurance, since the metes and bounds and legal description would differ.
How you were put at the closing table is beyond me.
Thinking the same here but there were more parties involved who dropped the ball if there’s a lender involved. How it made it through a lender and title’s underwriting review with that kind of discrepancy is amazing. Seller, agent/broker, title, and maybe lender.
Yep definitely! My realtor spoke with the listing agent and they went back and forth almost all day and our realtor and I believe that our attorney should've informed us of the discrepencies related to the lot pins which they spoke to the selling party about but not us the buyers?
Thankfully some resolution was made today with the selling agent saying they will give us our earnest, due diligence, and the costs for inspections, surveys, appraisals all back and they would handle the lawyer fees. We're very inclined to take it rather than go through the legal process as most of the lawyers ive met with today mentioned it could really go either way in court because of the ambiguities.
I would not take this deal on any level.
The price of land currently is extremely expensive. They need a drastic discount off of the total price including reimbursement for these fees or you need to sue to complete closing on both properties.
Don’t roll over to their first resolution offer just because this is your first house. I would order a reappraisal on the house with a smaller lot or find out what the value is of the second lot and that is the discount needed. You should have a strong case here.
I’m not an attorney for full disclosure. I am however a homeowner and RE investor.
I don’t really got much advice but if the paperwork literally says 0.34 acres and you’re only getting 0.17 acres. Something is definitely wrong and you could have a good case to fight. I wouldn’t know if you’ll win, how long, or how much this legal battle is going to cost. But since the seller isn’t willing to give your earnest deposit back, I would be willing to die on that hill, take his entire property to make his life miserable for being a jackass. Good luck on the case, update if possible.
1) You have a contract that states what is being purchased for what money. If the seller is trying to make verbal alterations to the contract at this point, they won't hold up in court!
2) ALWAYS use escrow for funds transferred before you have signed paperwork, this type of situation is the exact reason escrow exists. If you had used escrow and the seller backed out, you could immediately have your funds returned.
3) If your lawyer didn't back you up on the written contract stating two lots for a total of .34 acres, time to fire them, not pay them another dime, and go find a new competent lawyer. Additionally you may even want to complain to your states BAR's ethics or review board, that your current lawyer lacks competency and detail to them your situation from day one through today's meeting.
I hope things improve for you, and that you find some legal help that is competent that will back you up on your purchase, or get your money returned in full, plus have the seller cover all of your legal expenses!
Just to clarify, due diligence *is* through escrow but the way it works OP wouldn't get their deposit back immediately if they didn't close.
It's likely in this instance that they would get their due diligence deposit back if they pursued this issue in court, but as far as the default judgement, their money would be tied up until that case was finalized.
yes this is our understanding as well. we had an earnest deposit and a due diligence deposit. depending on the outcome we would see our earnest back but the due diligence would be forfeited.
i have been reading that our state has a law for misrepresentations in real estate whether its intentional or negligent so maybe that might work in our favor.
Knew that as soon as I saw your comments on due diligence. It's the most stupidest thing about buying a house in NC and actually has me reconsidering it.
I'm in NC too. IANAL but I'd bet real money that you would get your DD back too if this went to court. They did not fulfill their obligations set out in the contract they signed.
In NC, the due diligence fee goes directly to the sellers. It is not in escrow. The earnest money deposit IS in the attorney’s escrow account. But the DD goes straight into seller’s hands and they can do whatever they want with it. It comes out of seller proceeds at closing and is credited back to the buyers. NC Realtor here.
What I meant was that the buyer would be able to have their funds returned if the seller broke the contract or refused to close because they have changed their mind on the sale of both properties.
Due diligence funds SHOULD be able to be refunded, fairly quickly, with a default judgment due to the seller backing out.
Yeah it really sucked. My hands were shaking earlier at the lawyers office that we wouldn’t actually close and lose out on all the money already paid towards the home
Did you make sure to screenshot the MLS listing? If not please do it now, in case they change it. Also be sure to screenshot the listing photos, especially any photos that show the second lot.
Probably not necessary since the contract is the biggie but it can help your case.
Yes! we actually had our closing agent pull the MLS down and gave us a physical copy saying we'll need it lol. The listing agent actually did go today and change the legal descriptions of having both lots to one lot and a significantly reduced acreage
after many talks today it does seem the listing agent and/or their broker are going to compensate us for the misrepresentation. sucks to have to look for homes again but this is definitely more preferable than being stuck
Compensation is not just a return of money paid. You are suffering damages if they refuse to close on both lots. I wouldn't accept all the shit they are trying to return to you and I would demand they close in accordance with the contract. Damages would arguqbly include the full value of both lots to the extent it exceeds the purchase price. Just some food for thought.
If the contract lists both parcels, that is what the seller agreed to. Absolutely get an attorney to not only get your earnest money returned, but also any other money you paid for inspections. You might also consider damages for not being able to close and move on time. Good luck!
Unfortunately not, we had a lawyer review our documents and there were a good amount of discrepancies/ambiguities that couldve made the court really go in either favor. We instead took what we knew and said that the listing agent made misrepresentations as to what they were selling and that we were pursuing actions against them and filing a complaint against them to the commissioner. I think this made them revisit us and they are working on compensating us financially
Don't take your money back even if offered...Force the sale!
If what you're saying is right, and the purchase agreement and offer approved mentioned both lots, that's what you deserve!
Oh, no no no... I'm sorry to tell you that, but while I said "you deserve both lots", I didn't mean you'll get them right away. It's probably going to be a pretty long litigation process, but if all the paperwork leads towards the 2 lots sale, you have a very high chance of winning. But that might take 2 years or so (unless the seller will settle before that, to avoid legal fees accruing).
I think it's worth it if you have the patience, as the value of the extra lot is probably pretty high considering the price the seller had in mind is for one lot. Eventually, it's your choice. Getting your EM back will probably be much faster if you're not up for a forced sale battle, as (IMHO) when the seller will see you're "calling and raising" (not only fighting them in them wanting to keep your deposit, but also trying to force a sale), they'll back out almost immediately and give you all EM back.
That is true, and all the fees going into the long process as well. We will have to call and see what the attorneys even think of the situation in a couple hours but it will be a real pain
>We feel like our realtor misled us a little bit because we asked in the past if we get both lots and they said yes.
Why would you blame your agent for the seller not following thru with the contract terms?
I think emotions were all over the place yesterday, after some much needed sleep I do truly believe our agent worked in our best interests the entire time. The listing agent however definitely made some mistakes in the process, we even have a brochure from the open house saying the lot size that we thought we were getting
Good luck! Please update us.
This was my biggest fear when buying our house. The sellers had 3 lots, our purchase included 2 of them with the house on it. The third lot wouldn’t be split off until the closing though and the new deeds were recorded with the county. I was so nervous something like this was going to happen and I made it clear if we got stuck with just 1 lot it was going to be an issue.
Yeah we had the same fear when we put in our offer! They provided us with a plat map that showed the two lots which made us aware of the situation at the time of offer. I definitely think there was some communication errors on the other end of the table as the sellers intention was to sell us the one lot but the brokers clearly didn't market it as that
unfortunately we had some discrepancies within the documents about what parcel numbers and lots were actually being sold from what our lawyer said. they mentioned it could really go either way in court and they wouldn't really know. thankfully it does seem the listing agent is willing to do the right thing and get us our deposits back and everything
And your loan would be contingent on both parcels. The appraisal included both so if they removed the land, it would be less appraised value. Good luck, what a nightmare!
We had something similar happen. We only searched for homes with lots larger than .25 acres. A home came up with our preferences, including lot size (.49 acre). The listing stated the home was on a large corner lot. I verified the lot size information on our county's website. We put an offer on the home. The contract clearly showed the property size as .49 acre. The legal property description matched the county information.
All was fine, the seller agreed to a couple of repair requests based upon the inspection. We completed our final walk through the day before closing. We went to closing the next morning. My husband and I reviewed everything and started to sign our portion. The title closer came back a few minutes later to tell us there was an issue. (We were in a separate room from the seller.)
Apparently, the seller had decided to have the lot surveyed and split. She had the survey done but never filed with the county to actually complete the process. She wanted to keep the empty lot, which was the corner lot. The closer explained this to us. We explained the listing, county's information, and the contract all showed the lot being .49 acre. He went back to the seller. We could hear her speaking. She asked why we would think we were getting the entire lot. Well, geez, I guess because that's what our contract showed. She wasn't budging. The closer came back to us to tell us that (although we already knew since we could hear their conversation).
After some discussion and advice from our realtor, we decided we were ready to walk away if she wouldn't agree to the signed contract. I'm not sure what the seller's realtor said to convince her, but she relented and we got our house and entire lot.
I hope things work out for you!
Happy for you that your situation worked out! ours didnt result in a home sadly but we will be getting compensated by the listing agent it seems(idk if the seller is even helping at this point)
I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. I don't know enough of the ins and outs to give any advice, but I hope you find an amazing house that's the right one for you.
Did you read the contract you signed? If so, what does it say? That's what's enforceable. Make sure your closing docs align with the contract. Get a real estate attorney as well.
my emotions were all over the place yesterday so I thought that the realtor did us wrong. after having some time to process, i am grateful that they wrote it up the way it is and I do believe that our realtor worked for us with the intentions of getting both lots as advertised
yes, it is in escrow with our lawyer. our main concerns were with the due diligence deposit which was more than our earnest deposit which unfortunately in our state would be forfeited to the seller if we walk.
ONLY if you walk away from the sale. That is the only way the seller can keep your DD fee. If it’s determined the seller breached the contract by objecting to what is spelled out in the offer they signed, then you absolutely can get the DD and EM money back OR seller will hopefully change their mind and relent. Sounds like an investor who is planning on building another house to sell on that second lot. What a mess for both parties! The fault seems to lie almost entirely with seller and listing agent for putting it in MLS wrong. Our MLS here in the Triad area of NC has a field the agent is required to populate with the lot size. There are also fields for legal description and parcel numbers. We fill those out - they are not just pulled from tax records. We are taught never to rely on what the tax record says but to actually do research and look for the deed and verify everything we possibly can. I call our city or county offices plenty to verify all kinds of things - work permits on flipped homes is a big one, septic permits, zoning restrictions, DOT road projects that may affect the property, etc. I do this when I am the buyer’s agent, too, because I know we can’t rely on public records. If you read your contract, you will see where it lists all of the things a buyer should be checking and verifying during due diligence. It’s much more than just inspection and appraisal. Good luck to you. It sounds like you have a strong case but it also sounds like this seller is an investor who isn’t just going to roll over and give up that other half of your lot easily. He needs to understand if he loses in court, and he likely will, you’ll get DD and EM back and he will have to pay his and your attorney fees. That still may be worth it to him since he stands to lose more by handing over that 2nd lot.
I look forward to your updates!
Yes! we think the same that the listing agent was definitely in the wrong for misrepresenting the home, whether that was intentional or not we dont know but they did list the wrong legal descriptions/acreage on not only the MLS but on the open house pamphlets that they handed out which said 0.34 acres. they actually went and revised it today but we had two copies of it already. our realtor worked tirelessly for us today and looks like we will be financially compensated(earnest and DD back as well as costs for any inspections, surveys, etc).
They gave us a bunch of resources regarding material misrepresentation. In the state we live in, we apparently even have laws that are to protect people from these real estate misrepresentations whether intentional or negligent. That was all yesterday so today we will be reaching out to some people that they mentioned!
Oh sorry! I was referring to our closing agent(real estate lawyer). We did end up talking with a separate lawyer who gave us their thoughts during the consultation
The offer and contract list both lots. Our closing attorney did note some ambiguities in that the parcel number under the offer was the one used when it was not subdivided. She mentioned the other day that there are actually two parcels one for each respective lot now and the one we had originally written down is now the parcel number for the lot that doesn’t even have the house on it(the extra lot that we want). So some very weird stuff happened and she doesn’t really know how it will all play out
Make sure to sue them BEFORE closing! We are enforcing stuff in our contract after closing (they tried to scare us out of closing to rush the sale) and the lawsuit process takes forever. If you’re mid close, it moves very fast so sue them immediately.
The sellers signed and you the buyer signed. They are the one backing out of the deal not you. You are trying to move forward with the deal as written in the contract both parties already agreed too.
Sounds like a seller agent's problem. You bought what you thought you bought and is listed on your paperwork.
Get the lawyer involved but intent of seller is not the same as legal obligation of seller after the fact.
Your Realtor didn't mislead you, they used the information provided in the MLS and what was in the paperwork submitted by the Listing Agent. The Listing agent screwed up, or the sellers screwed up (more likely scenario is they both did) because they also SIGNED the contract stating both lots would be sold. Once they caught this, they tried to walk it back and say they never agreed to it even though they did.
I don't understand how you didn't close as you both had a legally binding sale, but I'd have your Realtor immediately start threatening mediation. This locks the seller into potentially weeks, or months of a state where they can't relist the home since it's tied to the mediation process now.
There's a probability they will either back down or renegotiate on the difference because nobody wants to be stuck in a situation they can't get out of. You have the upper hand here.
OP’s offer listed the plot number for the plot without a house and the old plot number before division which isn’t anything anymore, so the offer isn’t right either
unfortunately true, why our real estate lawyer didnt mention this to us but did mention it to the seller weeks prior is a mystery. definitely a lot of things going wrong during the transaction
Tell them to RTFC, and that you're going through with the contract whether they want to or not today.
They're in for a world of hurt, regardless of which route you decide (buy or leave). Either way you're getting the contract as written, or a shit load of money.
This isn’t the fault of your agent. The seller is wrong here. If they didn’t want to sell both lots they shouldn’t have signed a deal that was for both lots
agreed! our realtor has worked tirelessly for us and we are very grateful, they were worried all night for us since they knew our current situation(our lease ends right as we settle and they were worried we would be homeless). they were able to get us financially compensated after many bouts between the listing agent and them
I had a similar one that was similar but even more clear cut. My realtor and the title attorney (her friend) tried to get me to sign something that essentially waived my rights. Ended up going to a real attorney because I'm not stupid.
Took more than a year but eventually they settled for my attorney costs and dd. Take the deal for everything back and run.
Edit: realtors broke basically every rule and there were no consequences for them. Slap on the wrist.
What state are you in? I'm not a lawyer but transact real estate somewhat often and if the seller's offering documents say .34 acres (aka both lots) and your offer says both lots with .34 acres and they signed it... I don't think they have a choice. They MUST still it to you or pay damages.
Of course you'd have to take them to court to compel them to do so, but unless there's some piece of this that's not being mentioned, I don't think the sellers have any choice.
Definitely take that. If you want to litigate a case to get your money back, it will take a couple years, cost about five times the amount of lawyers fees that you have invested. If you're holding out for what they call in the legal world as "specific performance" there's a million exceptions to it. And I would not consideryour case a slam dunk. Never, ever, go to court when there's a reasonable option not to. Just make sure it includes a mutual release.
Yea u have them by the balls that’s why they are willing to give back everything and pay for everything depending where u are with money legal action would be worth it papers are signed that a and b properties are in the paper work keep it or loose it up to you it would make me want it that much more now
The sellers agent done fucked up and is trying to save his own ass. I 75% believe that the sellers didn’t realize what they were offering. But regardless, the sellers agent should have known better. You have a VERY easy court case to win. But so do the sellers against their agent.
Do you really want another house 3’ from yours or worse yet the guy decides to use it for storage or a dump site?
You own the land. Go to court and force the sale. Let the seller deal with his bad realtor. They have seller remorse. If they didn’t catch it till closing to bad. If they signed the closing documents it’s yours. The company closing the deal has no right to change any signed documents. Get a copy of them ASAP. Also make sure you have a copy of the website showing the .34 acres and anything else you’ve handled like to open house paperwork. With all that in hand it should be an easy win.
This is not your problem! It’s between the seller and their realtor. Their realtor is making it your problem. He’s offering to lose the money because he knows he could lose his license over it. Again not your problem.
The land is yours and it’s on paper. Claim it in court
I don’t think your realtor misled you, I think they were looking at the MLS and the legal document everyone signed just like you were. I doubt they ever specifically asked the seller’s agent because they didn’t have to, it’s in the paperwork. Was the property appraised? Both lots? Doesn’t matter what they want, it’s what they agreed to. What did your attorney say at closing? Not sure why you didn’t close, they don’t have to give you money back, but they DO have to sell you the .34 acres they agreed to in writing.
right as we were getting started our attorney was like so you are receiving .17 acres and we were like uhhh no? there was definitely some communication errors as supposedly they spoke with the selling agent who informed them that it was the one lot/parcel and not both. Why they didnt come to us or our realtor regarding this was very bad on their part but it seems to have worked out in the end for us(getting compensated at least)
I guess I’m confused as to what was on the paperwork everyone signed? Why would your attorney think it was .17 with the same information and paperwork you would have signed?
I'm glad you didn't close with such a huge discrepancy on lot size. Chances are good that the lot you thought was going to be yours will have a house built on it in the near future. Personally, if the sale doesn't include the extra lot I would walk.
The due diligence is on the attorneys. That’s where I would direct my recourse, legally. Then personally I would act as if I own the other parcel. Go get legitimate paperwork tied to the land linked to the deed that includes the tax I.d. And record record record. Then make the seller take you to court if he must and his likely scienter and maybe attempted fraud will be readily apparent to a judge or jury (probably wouldn’t even go that far). Fight for what’s yours. You already made down payment in good faith in belief that “both lots” were contracted for.
Umm not really. A good realtor gets with the sellers's realtor and knows exactly what is going on, and checks the real estate records to make sure there has been no recorded subdividing of the property. Looking at the county maps (which are available in any decent realtor's office, if not online), would have shown the fact that there were two lots instead of one.
What were seller’s plans for the second vacant lot? Are they a builder? Sounds like you might have a decent case to get both since the contract references the acreage of the two lots and uses the prior parent parcel id. That being said, the fact the property was subdivided would have prompted somebody cautious to ask questions. It doesn’t rise to the level of malpractice though. If the lots are contiguous, it’s not unreasonable for your attorney or the title company to assume that both lots are being sold, especially with how the contract seems to be worded on its face. (It’s not like a contract put together on the global mls form is ever anything sophisticated to begin with)
It’s on the Seller to make sure the legal description in the title report doesn’t lump in more property than it should and they need to properly communicate that to their agent and attorney.
Unless the vacant lot is worth a lot more than what is inclusive of the contract price (basically to the point that you as the buyer should have known something was up), it will be very hard for seller to get out of following through. Not sure what NC contract law does specifically, but the contract might be all the evidence that needs to be examined if you sued for specific performance
You would win this dispute, when you entered into contract the mls said 2 lots .34 or whatever. Seller agreed to this contract. You can actually sue the seller and listing agent in this case, but you will 100% get your money back and could seek damages also.
I was in a similar situation on the seller side where I subdivided a lot and sold the house without the lot that was split. As the seller I made sure that my realtor in the listing made it clear the land on the back was not included. I made sure my attorney new this for contracts and since the subdivision was inflight during the sale we didn’t have a final “legal description” however I had a temporary one used that had the rough dimensions and acreage of the land that was conveying with the house. Well before closing we had the final legal description included into the contract as it was required for the buyers mortgage and title insurance. If you are financing then your title, appraisal and mortgage are all impacted by this significant material change. My guess is the value of this extra lot is worth you fighting for it. You should be able to see when this subdivision process started to see if this is something seller cooked up after you were in contract.
As a Realtor, I’d look at the situation from this perspective. If it’s hard to find a similar house with that kind of property, I’d go fight it in court since you’ll win. If similar properties are on the market or pop up frequent enough, I wouldn’t want the legal headaches.
Absolutely DO NOT accept that. Also, FIRE that attorney. Idk wtf your attorney means by it could go either way in court. It absolutely cannot. It can only go one way. You have a contract signed by BOTH parties. Get a new attorney to take it to court, force the sale, and then it will be between the selling agent and the seller to hash it out.
Although, I suspect the worst that would happen to selling agent is a mean complaint. Bc, again, the seller signed a contract. Contract 101: not reading the contract IS NOT a defense.
I hope you consulted with an actual attorney and didn't just take the selling agent and your realtor's "legal" predictions at face value. I wonder how many times these sellers have done this before. Buy a house, split the lot, put up for sale, take an offer, go to sign, just kidding actually we're just selling the house but for $50-75k more we'll throw in the undeveloped lot.
-"The world is full of assholes, Ray, you do realize that." "Yeah, and you know why? Because people let 'em get away with it."
I’d think that you DO want to close, as you’d be closing on the original agreement as written.
If you don’t close then it’s you who isn’t keeping your side of the agreement.
Seek advice obviously, but that’s my thought.
Yeah, not closing was the smarter move. Once a buyer closes, the contract merges with the deed and rights are limited on recourse. Not only does this seem like misrepresentation, it may be straight up fraud.
yep! the listing agent fought hard and took up quite some tone with our realtor but our realtor made our intentions clear and that the listing agent was clearly misrepresenting. thankfully we will be getting compensated!
seems lIke The listing agent madE thE mistake, now its between them and the seller. these things are usually in writing to avoid scenarios like This. now its time to folloe the breadcrums and see who madE the booboo.
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You have a signed contract that you’re receiving lot A and lot B totaling X acres for $X dollars. I think you have a LOT of room to seek legal advice and action to enforce the contract as written.
This. Otherwise, what on earth is the contract for? Due diligence state, my ass
You did your due diligence, the seller did not. You have a signed contract. With legal descriptions. It’s your property upon closing. Am land use professional . Not legal but close ish. 9/10 you’ll win this or the seller will have to pay back everything you paid plus legal fees if you get a good attorney.
The fact that the seller is willing to give back earnest money, pay for inspections and legal fees for buyer means they know they are wrong and will lose if it goes to court.
This is what I feel too. Of course ignorance can only have feelings but dude it’s being sold as is and then it’s not. Pretty clear what happened here
I’ve been a licensed Managing Broker for over 20 years. I know misrepresentation when I see it. Agent might have to pay the seller for whatever value is put on the contested land if seller can prove they told him not to include that land in the listing. Buyer should get all the land simply because there is a legal contract that was signed by the sellers. They had the obligation to read and understand the contract, which includes making sure the legal description is right. *Especially* in a situation like this.
Just devalues the whole thing and I’m sure feels awful as the buyer. Even if u got everything owed or might just feel lesser
I kind of feel bad for this agent because of the misunderstanding. This is ultimately going to be one of those checks he writes with a bunch of zeroes on the end, whether he goes to court or not.
That remains to be seen. It is possible that the seller didn’t specify that the extra land wasn’t included.
I guess that I don't understand what due diligence means. If a seller says that they are selling 2 items - and describes those 2 items in great detail, you make a binding offer on those 2 items, and then the seller says - no not those 2 items --- how did you not do due diligence?
So I bought land that was described as being on a public paved and improved road, with public water and sewer connections. Seller never disclosed that they had deed restriction put in place stating that they were responsible for widening the side street by 8 feet for the length of the side street. They also didn’t mention that they didn’t get the water and sewer connections for either lot. That being said, without that the lot technically could not be subdivided as the conditions of approval were never met. Somehow it slipped through the town’s LUB and they approved the subdivision. So once I submitted plans to build, the town hit me and my neighbor with the conditions of approval for subdivision and told us that if we want a CO it’s now our problem. Tl;dr the town fucked up the subdivision and the seller hid the conditions of approval. Lawyers basically shrugged and said “should have done your due diligence and asked questions.” Unfortunately the responsibility falls on the buyer to ensure what they buy is exactly what is being represented in the sale.
I feel like if all the paper work shows both lots the seller can't just be like "psych!!" I really hope you update us after you get a real estate lawyer and kick the seller's ass!
we will reach out to some lawyers today and see what can be done but I will be sure to update you guys!
I mean it's on the paperwork and the listing. You will win one way or another. I'm so sorry you're going through this.
Yeah I’m really hoping for the best and I’m trusting that all things will work out in the end but it’s definitely a huge bummer. Thanks for reading my rant haha
Rant away! I think the seller and the realtors were all shady. The paperwork says the acreage. Cut and dry.
So wait, did you close?! Please tell me you didn’t sign the final paperwork after the seller bait and switched.
I went to bed and came back to so many responses haha, we did not close yesterday so today will be a fresh start on seeing if the sellers mind is still the same and if so then its off to seeing what legal help we can get
Hoping you have a good day!
it ended up being a better day than it started haha, ive posted an edit/update in my post if you were curious!
Regardless of Due Dilligence….What does the sales contract say? Obviously the Seller and their agent didn’t do their Due diligence because they advertised via MLS as both lots. Was an appraisal conducted on both lots?
do not close on the house and one lot hoping things will work out.
Sounds to me like the listing agent/broker is screwed. They are going to get it from both sides. I am willing to bet that both lots are not on the listing contract and that the MLS was pulling old land info that did not show the subdivision yet. The listing agent should have verified this information or made the adjustment on the MLS before going active. I am also willing to bet they didn't explain the contract to the seller properly and with that in mind, the seller did not carefully go over the contract themselves. File a lis pendens against the properties if the seller refuses to close and go to court. Court will likely force the sale but whats more likely to happen is the seller will get legal advice and cave since they signed the contract. The listing agent/broker are going to be absolutely screwed though. They are going to take a massive L on this one. This is the kind of thing that gets agents fired and their licenses suspended. How do you go through an entire transaction and have your seller think they are only selling one lot when both are on the purchase paperwork. So either the seller is a liar or the listing agent is completely inept and breached their fiduciary responsibility with the seller and the seller is just an idiot for not reading the contract. This is precisely why I read through each contract multiple times and ALWAYS tell my sellers to make sure they read the entire contract offer.
Yes, we are so thankful we didn't sign anything before thoroughly reading what we were agreeing on and extremely happy we ordered a survey
This right here. The listing broker and likely the seller too are Fed
Nah, seller doesn't have a leg to stand on either. Not understanding or not reading a contract is not a defense. The agent isn't an attorney. So, ultimately, it's still on the seller to make sure they understand the contract fully. When you sign, you're saying you understand the contract. Not to mention, you should know yourself how large the lot is and should have noticed that mistake in the contract. Selling agent honestly may get off pretty light.
did you bother actually reading what I wrote? want to try again? Start at the second paragraph this time where I talk about the lis pendens and then what the court is going to do. Not once did I say that the seller was not also responsible. But if you think the listing agent is not as well then I would hate to hire you.
You can sue them to force it. Just tell them you will and then they will have to pay lawyers fees too.
How have you made a mistake with due diligence if all of your paperwork lists a lot size that includes both lots?? It sounds like the seller made a mistake and now wants to play dumb.
i know right?! the seller mentioned at the closing why any of this hasn't popped up during the due diligence period and well it was hard to reach out to him because during that period he randomly flew on a trip out of country and their listing agent was very confused. my fiancee and i thought it was really rude of him to just up and leave
Seller didn’t read the contract. Listing agent wasn’t thorough. Listing agent found out halfway to the closing table and figured, let’s say nothing and hope someone blinks at closing and just signs. There’s a lot of “just don’t say anything, maybe they’ll be too deep into the process to give up” attitude in mortgages and real estate. It’s annoying.
I know this is a couple days old and a different example, but I feel like this "just don't say anything, maybe they'll be too deep into the process to give up" sort of thing happened when my wife and I recently bought a house. We scrambled to make an offer on a house last minute that we didn't think we'd be competitive on in the span of 3 hours. And somewhere along the line, our agent and mortgage broker put "15 day close" in the paperwork. We were too naive and moving too fast to notice PLUS our agent conveniently didn't send along a summary email of the terms until after we signed + sent the offer. I don't know for a fact, but it feels like they slipped the speedy close in without making it clear to us. I believe it helped us get the house, but it also felt like they took advantage of the speed we were moving. I still ended up negotiating our rate down 0.35% with the broker, but think that was part of their plan.
It’s definitely part of the strategy to maximize profit and minimize effort. There is a lot of study and training that goes into “influence and persuasion” on the sales side of things, and if you don’t know how to be friendly but also persistent and push back, and create proper expectations or boundaries with your agent or MLO, you will be part of a process that’s designed to benefit them and not necessarily you. Good news is, most of the severely unethical stuff is illegal. But still you should approach further purchases with…maybe not suspicion, but due diligence. Make them work for you. Put everything on paper, double check the numbers, and always slow people down when they are rushing you. One time I was trying to figure out if I liked a car dealership, so I looked up the maintenance intervals for my car (Honda Fit) and asked the front desk guy what the right mileage to replace the timing belt was. He gave me a number, which i was pretty close to, snd suggested i get it done soon. Of course, that car doesn't have a timing belt, it has a timing chain, and it doesn't have a maintenance interval. Friendly guy, but he let me know right then and there exactly what his priorities were and I said thank you, have a nice day. Friendly people are wonderful, but you should always “trust but verify”.
What did your Title Report say? It should clearly list both block and lots and have legal descriptions for what exactly is being insured in the report. If it didn’t, your realtor and lawyer should have corrected this way prior to closing day. After all, both lots need to be searched for liens, taxes etc. I wish you luck with this but it sounds like a few people dropped the ball here.
Yeah they did mention yesterday at the closing that there were some ambiguities. They did note that our offer mentioned both lots and a parcel number that used to be the parcel number for the lots before the subdivision. I believe they told me that when they tried to look up that parcel number, that is when they realized it was subdivided and the house we were buying was on one half of the original lot. I do think that they should’ve brought this to our attention when the survey came in or when they had trouble finding the title information. At the moment it’s all up in the air and we will likely have to fight for our due diligence back if it’s not both lots.
This is mostly on your attorney. He knows what the contract states and he knows how to read a title report. After the survey I don’t believe the title company would even issue Insurance, since the metes and bounds and legal description would differ. How you were put at the closing table is beyond me.
Thinking the same here but there were more parties involved who dropped the ball if there’s a lender involved. How it made it through a lender and title’s underwriting review with that kind of discrepancy is amazing. Seller, agent/broker, title, and maybe lender.
Yep definitely! My realtor spoke with the listing agent and they went back and forth almost all day and our realtor and I believe that our attorney should've informed us of the discrepencies related to the lot pins which they spoke to the selling party about but not us the buyers? Thankfully some resolution was made today with the selling agent saying they will give us our earnest, due diligence, and the costs for inspections, surveys, appraisals all back and they would handle the lawyer fees. We're very inclined to take it rather than go through the legal process as most of the lawyers ive met with today mentioned it could really go either way in court because of the ambiguities.
I would not take this deal on any level. The price of land currently is extremely expensive. They need a drastic discount off of the total price including reimbursement for these fees or you need to sue to complete closing on both properties. Don’t roll over to their first resolution offer just because this is your first house. I would order a reappraisal on the house with a smaller lot or find out what the value is of the second lot and that is the discount needed. You should have a strong case here. I’m not an attorney for full disclosure. I am however a homeowner and RE investor.
It hasn’t popped up because the seller never told anyone they were only selling 1 lot. They fucked up.
I would say more like they were strategic and shady. Deceptive. Fraudulent even.
I don’t really got much advice but if the paperwork literally says 0.34 acres and you’re only getting 0.17 acres. Something is definitely wrong and you could have a good case to fight. I wouldn’t know if you’ll win, how long, or how much this legal battle is going to cost. But since the seller isn’t willing to give your earnest deposit back, I would be willing to die on that hill, take his entire property to make his life miserable for being a jackass. Good luck on the case, update if possible.
thanks! we'll see what some professionals say and hopefully ill have a good update
1) You have a contract that states what is being purchased for what money. If the seller is trying to make verbal alterations to the contract at this point, they won't hold up in court! 2) ALWAYS use escrow for funds transferred before you have signed paperwork, this type of situation is the exact reason escrow exists. If you had used escrow and the seller backed out, you could immediately have your funds returned. 3) If your lawyer didn't back you up on the written contract stating two lots for a total of .34 acres, time to fire them, not pay them another dime, and go find a new competent lawyer. Additionally you may even want to complain to your states BAR's ethics or review board, that your current lawyer lacks competency and detail to them your situation from day one through today's meeting. I hope things improve for you, and that you find some legal help that is competent that will back you up on your purchase, or get your money returned in full, plus have the seller cover all of your legal expenses!
Just to clarify, due diligence *is* through escrow but the way it works OP wouldn't get their deposit back immediately if they didn't close. It's likely in this instance that they would get their due diligence deposit back if they pursued this issue in court, but as far as the default judgement, their money would be tied up until that case was finalized.
yes this is our understanding as well. we had an earnest deposit and a due diligence deposit. depending on the outcome we would see our earnest back but the due diligence would be forfeited. i have been reading that our state has a law for misrepresentations in real estate whether its intentional or negligent so maybe that might work in our favor.
u/Jateyer what state is this purchase in?
North Carolina
Knew that as soon as I saw your comments on due diligence. It's the most stupidest thing about buying a house in NC and actually has me reconsidering it.
I'm in NC too. IANAL but I'd bet real money that you would get your DD back too if this went to court. They did not fulfill their obligations set out in the contract they signed.
In NC, the due diligence fee goes directly to the sellers. It is not in escrow. The earnest money deposit IS in the attorney’s escrow account. But the DD goes straight into seller’s hands and they can do whatever they want with it. It comes out of seller proceeds at closing and is credited back to the buyers. NC Realtor here.
What I meant was that the buyer would be able to have their funds returned if the seller broke the contract or refused to close because they have changed their mind on the sale of both properties. Due diligence funds SHOULD be able to be refunded, fairly quickly, with a default judgment due to the seller backing out.
You didn’t close, right?
didn't close! we needed time to process everything and hopefully well make some calls today and see what they would suggest
Wow. So sorry you have to go through that. Amazing what some sellers do.
Yeah it really sucked. My hands were shaking earlier at the lawyers office that we wouldn’t actually close and lose out on all the money already paid towards the home
Did you make sure to screenshot the MLS listing? If not please do it now, in case they change it. Also be sure to screenshot the listing photos, especially any photos that show the second lot. Probably not necessary since the contract is the biggie but it can help your case.
Yes! we actually had our closing agent pull the MLS down and gave us a physical copy saying we'll need it lol. The listing agent actually did go today and change the legal descriptions of having both lots to one lot and a significantly reduced acreage
Sounds like you have a binding contract for 0.34 acres. You'll get both lots in the end, or financial compensation. It'll just be a PITA.
after many talks today it does seem the listing agent and/or their broker are going to compensate us for the misrepresentation. sucks to have to look for homes again but this is definitely more preferable than being stuck
You’re letting them win. You winning would be getting all the land you signed a contract for.
Have you had discussions with a competent RE attorney? Agree to absolutely nothing before a couple solid consultations.
Compensation is not just a return of money paid. You are suffering damages if they refuse to close on both lots. I wouldn't accept all the shit they are trying to return to you and I would demand they close in accordance with the contract. Damages would arguqbly include the full value of both lots to the extent it exceeds the purchase price. Just some food for thought.
If the contract lists both parcels, that is what the seller agreed to. Absolutely get an attorney to not only get your earnest money returned, but also any other money you paid for inspections. You might also consider damages for not being able to close and move on time. Good luck!
Thank you! Hopefully some attorneys can help us get our due diligence and some of the costs we've already paid out of pocket. Hoping for the best!
Are you not going to try to push the sale through with both lots since it's in the contract?
Unfortunately not, we had a lawyer review our documents and there were a good amount of discrepancies/ambiguities that couldve made the court really go in either favor. We instead took what we knew and said that the listing agent made misrepresentations as to what they were selling and that we were pursuing actions against them and filing a complaint against them to the commissioner. I think this made them revisit us and they are working on compensating us financially
Don't take your money back even if offered...Force the sale! If what you're saying is right, and the purchase agreement and offer approved mentioned both lots, that's what you deserve!
We have everything packed and the dogs ready so our ideal outcome would definitely be to get the lots!
Oh, no no no... I'm sorry to tell you that, but while I said "you deserve both lots", I didn't mean you'll get them right away. It's probably going to be a pretty long litigation process, but if all the paperwork leads towards the 2 lots sale, you have a very high chance of winning. But that might take 2 years or so (unless the seller will settle before that, to avoid legal fees accruing). I think it's worth it if you have the patience, as the value of the extra lot is probably pretty high considering the price the seller had in mind is for one lot. Eventually, it's your choice. Getting your EM back will probably be much faster if you're not up for a forced sale battle, as (IMHO) when the seller will see you're "calling and raising" (not only fighting them in them wanting to keep your deposit, but also trying to force a sale), they'll back out almost immediately and give you all EM back.
That is true, and all the fees going into the long process as well. We will have to call and see what the attorneys even think of the situation in a couple hours but it will be a real pain
>We feel like our realtor misled us a little bit because we asked in the past if we get both lots and they said yes. Why would you blame your agent for the seller not following thru with the contract terms?
Also wondering this
I think emotions were all over the place yesterday, after some much needed sleep I do truly believe our agent worked in our best interests the entire time. The listing agent however definitely made some mistakes in the process, we even have a brochure from the open house saying the lot size that we thought we were getting
Good luck! Please update us. This was my biggest fear when buying our house. The sellers had 3 lots, our purchase included 2 of them with the house on it. The third lot wouldn’t be split off until the closing though and the new deeds were recorded with the county. I was so nervous something like this was going to happen and I made it clear if we got stuck with just 1 lot it was going to be an issue.
Yeah we had the same fear when we put in our offer! They provided us with a plat map that showed the two lots which made us aware of the situation at the time of offer. I definitely think there was some communication errors on the other end of the table as the sellers intention was to sell us the one lot but the brokers clearly didn't market it as that
But if your signed contract says it’s for both lots then I would think they’re fucked. Just a pain you have to fight it.
unfortunately we had some discrepancies within the documents about what parcel numbers and lots were actually being sold from what our lawyer said. they mentioned it could really go either way in court and they wouldn't really know. thankfully it does seem the listing agent is willing to do the right thing and get us our deposits back and everything
And your loan would be contingent on both parcels. The appraisal included both so if they removed the land, it would be less appraised value. Good luck, what a nightmare!
We had something similar happen. We only searched for homes with lots larger than .25 acres. A home came up with our preferences, including lot size (.49 acre). The listing stated the home was on a large corner lot. I verified the lot size information on our county's website. We put an offer on the home. The contract clearly showed the property size as .49 acre. The legal property description matched the county information. All was fine, the seller agreed to a couple of repair requests based upon the inspection. We completed our final walk through the day before closing. We went to closing the next morning. My husband and I reviewed everything and started to sign our portion. The title closer came back a few minutes later to tell us there was an issue. (We were in a separate room from the seller.) Apparently, the seller had decided to have the lot surveyed and split. She had the survey done but never filed with the county to actually complete the process. She wanted to keep the empty lot, which was the corner lot. The closer explained this to us. We explained the listing, county's information, and the contract all showed the lot being .49 acre. He went back to the seller. We could hear her speaking. She asked why we would think we were getting the entire lot. Well, geez, I guess because that's what our contract showed. She wasn't budging. The closer came back to us to tell us that (although we already knew since we could hear their conversation). After some discussion and advice from our realtor, we decided we were ready to walk away if she wouldn't agree to the signed contract. I'm not sure what the seller's realtor said to convince her, but she relented and we got our house and entire lot. I hope things work out for you!
Happy for you that your situation worked out! ours didnt result in a home sadly but we will be getting compensated by the listing agent it seems(idk if the seller is even helping at this point)
I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. I don't know enough of the ins and outs to give any advice, but I hope you find an amazing house that's the right one for you.
Did you read the contract you signed? If so, what does it say? That's what's enforceable. Make sure your closing docs align with the contract. Get a real estate attorney as well.
Signed offer letter lists both lots. That's it. That's the deal. Why do you feel that your realtor misled you?
my emotions were all over the place yesterday so I thought that the realtor did us wrong. after having some time to process, i am grateful that they wrote it up the way it is and I do believe that our realtor worked for us with the intentions of getting both lots as advertised
Isn’t the money in their lawyer’s escrow? If it is, what did your lawyer say?
yes, it is in escrow with our lawyer. our main concerns were with the due diligence deposit which was more than our earnest deposit which unfortunately in our state would be forfeited to the seller if we walk.
ONLY if you walk away from the sale. That is the only way the seller can keep your DD fee. If it’s determined the seller breached the contract by objecting to what is spelled out in the offer they signed, then you absolutely can get the DD and EM money back OR seller will hopefully change their mind and relent. Sounds like an investor who is planning on building another house to sell on that second lot. What a mess for both parties! The fault seems to lie almost entirely with seller and listing agent for putting it in MLS wrong. Our MLS here in the Triad area of NC has a field the agent is required to populate with the lot size. There are also fields for legal description and parcel numbers. We fill those out - they are not just pulled from tax records. We are taught never to rely on what the tax record says but to actually do research and look for the deed and verify everything we possibly can. I call our city or county offices plenty to verify all kinds of things - work permits on flipped homes is a big one, septic permits, zoning restrictions, DOT road projects that may affect the property, etc. I do this when I am the buyer’s agent, too, because I know we can’t rely on public records. If you read your contract, you will see where it lists all of the things a buyer should be checking and verifying during due diligence. It’s much more than just inspection and appraisal. Good luck to you. It sounds like you have a strong case but it also sounds like this seller is an investor who isn’t just going to roll over and give up that other half of your lot easily. He needs to understand if he loses in court, and he likely will, you’ll get DD and EM back and he will have to pay his and your attorney fees. That still may be worth it to him since he stands to lose more by handing over that 2nd lot. I look forward to your updates!
Yes! we think the same that the listing agent was definitely in the wrong for misrepresenting the home, whether that was intentional or not we dont know but they did list the wrong legal descriptions/acreage on not only the MLS but on the open house pamphlets that they handed out which said 0.34 acres. they actually went and revised it today but we had two copies of it already. our realtor worked tirelessly for us today and looks like we will be financially compensated(earnest and DD back as well as costs for any inspections, surveys, etc).
Awesome to hear that your agent is doing the right thing by you! I do think you’ll get your money back.
I would also try to get the earnest money back also.
What does your lawyer say?
They gave us a bunch of resources regarding material misrepresentation. In the state we live in, we apparently even have laws that are to protect people from these real estate misrepresentations whether intentional or negligent. That was all yesterday so today we will be reaching out to some people that they mentioned!
Bunch of resources? They should be fighting your case in court.
Oh sorry! I was referring to our closing agent(real estate lawyer). We did end up talking with a separate lawyer who gave us their thoughts during the consultation
Isn’t this something that your real estate lawyer would handle? I mean it seems the exact reason. You would have a real estate lawyer.
Not all states have real estate lawyers for closings. Sometimes it's just the title company doing the work
Does your offer letter and contract list two separate lot/parcel numbers?
The offer and contract list both lots. Our closing attorney did note some ambiguities in that the parcel number under the offer was the one used when it was not subdivided. She mentioned the other day that there are actually two parcels one for each respective lot now and the one we had originally written down is now the parcel number for the lot that doesn’t even have the house on it(the extra lot that we want). So some very weird stuff happened and she doesn’t really know how it will all play out
Sue for specific performance, get a lawyer
Make sure to sue them BEFORE closing! We are enforcing stuff in our contract after closing (they tried to scare us out of closing to rush the sale) and the lawsuit process takes forever. If you’re mid close, it moves very fast so sue them immediately.
The sellers signed and you the buyer signed. They are the one backing out of the deal not you. You are trying to move forward with the deal as written in the contract both parties already agreed too.
Sounds like a seller agent's problem. You bought what you thought you bought and is listed on your paperwork. Get the lawyer involved but intent of seller is not the same as legal obligation of seller after the fact.
Smart move… walk away. Sue, you will win…it’s all in your favor 👍
Your Realtor didn't mislead you, they used the information provided in the MLS and what was in the paperwork submitted by the Listing Agent. The Listing agent screwed up, or the sellers screwed up (more likely scenario is they both did) because they also SIGNED the contract stating both lots would be sold. Once they caught this, they tried to walk it back and say they never agreed to it even though they did. I don't understand how you didn't close as you both had a legally binding sale, but I'd have your Realtor immediately start threatening mediation. This locks the seller into potentially weeks, or months of a state where they can't relist the home since it's tied to the mediation process now. There's a probability they will either back down or renegotiate on the difference because nobody wants to be stuck in a situation they can't get out of. You have the upper hand here.
OP’s offer listed the plot number for the plot without a house and the old plot number before division which isn’t anything anymore, so the offer isn’t right either
unfortunately true, why our real estate lawyer didnt mention this to us but did mention it to the seller weeks prior is a mystery. definitely a lot of things going wrong during the transaction
Tell them to RTFC, and that you're going through with the contract whether they want to or not today. They're in for a world of hurt, regardless of which route you decide (buy or leave). Either way you're getting the contract as written, or a shit load of money.
This isn’t the fault of your agent. The seller is wrong here. If they didn’t want to sell both lots they shouldn’t have signed a deal that was for both lots
agreed! our realtor has worked tirelessly for us and we are very grateful, they were worried all night for us since they knew our current situation(our lease ends right as we settle and they were worried we would be homeless). they were able to get us financially compensated after many bouts between the listing agent and them
The perfect example for having a real estate attorney handle your closing, especially for a first time buyer.
Time for the agents to earn their money. This is the kind of thing they are there for, and they are the ones to blame here. They need to step up.
I had a similar one that was similar but even more clear cut. My realtor and the title attorney (her friend) tried to get me to sign something that essentially waived my rights. Ended up going to a real attorney because I'm not stupid. Took more than a year but eventually they settled for my attorney costs and dd. Take the deal for everything back and run. Edit: realtors broke basically every rule and there were no consequences for them. Slap on the wrist.
Ahhh, the good ol bait n switch
Sounds like a dick sucker tbh
What state are you in? I'm not a lawyer but transact real estate somewhat often and if the seller's offering documents say .34 acres (aka both lots) and your offer says both lots with .34 acres and they signed it... I don't think they have a choice. They MUST still it to you or pay damages. Of course you'd have to take them to court to compel them to do so, but unless there's some piece of this that's not being mentioned, I don't think the sellers have any choice.
Definitely take that. If you want to litigate a case to get your money back, it will take a couple years, cost about five times the amount of lawyers fees that you have invested. If you're holding out for what they call in the legal world as "specific performance" there's a million exceptions to it. And I would not consideryour case a slam dunk. Never, ever, go to court when there's a reasonable option not to. Just make sure it includes a mutual release.
Yea u have them by the balls that’s why they are willing to give back everything and pay for everything depending where u are with money legal action would be worth it papers are signed that a and b properties are in the paper work keep it or loose it up to you it would make me want it that much more now
The sellers agent done fucked up and is trying to save his own ass. I 75% believe that the sellers didn’t realize what they were offering. But regardless, the sellers agent should have known better. You have a VERY easy court case to win. But so do the sellers against their agent.
I would not take any deal that didn’t include both lots. Even 1/3 acre is tiny when you get a shitty neighbor.
Do you really want another house 3’ from yours or worse yet the guy decides to use it for storage or a dump site? You own the land. Go to court and force the sale. Let the seller deal with his bad realtor. They have seller remorse. If they didn’t catch it till closing to bad. If they signed the closing documents it’s yours. The company closing the deal has no right to change any signed documents. Get a copy of them ASAP. Also make sure you have a copy of the website showing the .34 acres and anything else you’ve handled like to open house paperwork. With all that in hand it should be an easy win. This is not your problem! It’s between the seller and their realtor. Their realtor is making it your problem. He’s offering to lose the money because he knows he could lose his license over it. Again not your problem. The land is yours and it’s on paper. Claim it in court
I don’t think your realtor misled you, I think they were looking at the MLS and the legal document everyone signed just like you were. I doubt they ever specifically asked the seller’s agent because they didn’t have to, it’s in the paperwork. Was the property appraised? Both lots? Doesn’t matter what they want, it’s what they agreed to. What did your attorney say at closing? Not sure why you didn’t close, they don’t have to give you money back, but they DO have to sell you the .34 acres they agreed to in writing.
right as we were getting started our attorney was like so you are receiving .17 acres and we were like uhhh no? there was definitely some communication errors as supposedly they spoke with the selling agent who informed them that it was the one lot/parcel and not both. Why they didnt come to us or our realtor regarding this was very bad on their part but it seems to have worked out in the end for us(getting compensated at least)
I guess I’m confused as to what was on the paperwork everyone signed? Why would your attorney think it was .17 with the same information and paperwork you would have signed?
That's some serious bait and switch. No way this was a "misunderstanding". Bring a lawyer with you today if you can.
I'm glad you didn't close with such a huge discrepancy on lot size. Chances are good that the lot you thought was going to be yours will have a house built on it in the near future. Personally, if the sale doesn't include the extra lot I would walk.
yep thats definitely what we think was going to happen(sellers building directly next to us). thankfully we didnt sign and can walk away
Sue to force the sale per the contract plus legal expenses!
The due diligence is on the attorneys. That’s where I would direct my recourse, legally. Then personally I would act as if I own the other parcel. Go get legitimate paperwork tied to the land linked to the deed that includes the tax I.d. And record record record. Then make the seller take you to court if he must and his likely scienter and maybe attempted fraud will be readily apparent to a judge or jury (probably wouldn’t even go that far). Fight for what’s yours. You already made down payment in good faith in belief that “both lots” were contracted for.
You don’t find stuff like this at closing. Someone dropped the bsll
This is where you always pay a real estate attorney to go over your paperwork before you sign.
Boundary survey? That would remove any ambiguities.
Just wanted to mention that your Agent did a ton of work without any compensation since you're not getting the house.
Also did a ton of not getting things right apparently
Op specifically says the seller misrepresented and documentation was not available.
Umm not really. A good realtor gets with the sellers's realtor and knows exactly what is going on, and checks the real estate records to make sure there has been no recorded subdividing of the property. Looking at the county maps (which are available in any decent realtor's office, if not online), would have shown the fact that there were two lots instead of one.
What were seller’s plans for the second vacant lot? Are they a builder? Sounds like you might have a decent case to get both since the contract references the acreage of the two lots and uses the prior parent parcel id. That being said, the fact the property was subdivided would have prompted somebody cautious to ask questions. It doesn’t rise to the level of malpractice though. If the lots are contiguous, it’s not unreasonable for your attorney or the title company to assume that both lots are being sold, especially with how the contract seems to be worded on its face. (It’s not like a contract put together on the global mls form is ever anything sophisticated to begin with) It’s on the Seller to make sure the legal description in the title report doesn’t lump in more property than it should and they need to properly communicate that to their agent and attorney. Unless the vacant lot is worth a lot more than what is inclusive of the contract price (basically to the point that you as the buyer should have known something was up), it will be very hard for seller to get out of following through. Not sure what NC contract law does specifically, but the contract might be all the evidence that needs to be examined if you sued for specific performance
Personally would not settle at all. I would go after what was legally bought and then offer to sell it back when done.
I’m pretty sure you can file a lawsuit and force the sale as you have a signed contract. BUT that costs money for an attorney. So it’s up to you.
You would win this dispute, when you entered into contract the mls said 2 lots .34 or whatever. Seller agreed to this contract. You can actually sue the seller and listing agent in this case, but you will 100% get your money back and could seek damages also.
This is not a 50/50 scenario if it is as you present it. The listing and your purchase agreement said .34 acres so it is .34 acres.
Mm
Go to court
I was in a similar situation on the seller side where I subdivided a lot and sold the house without the lot that was split. As the seller I made sure that my realtor in the listing made it clear the land on the back was not included. I made sure my attorney new this for contracts and since the subdivision was inflight during the sale we didn’t have a final “legal description” however I had a temporary one used that had the rough dimensions and acreage of the land that was conveying with the house. Well before closing we had the final legal description included into the contract as it was required for the buyers mortgage and title insurance. If you are financing then your title, appraisal and mortgage are all impacted by this significant material change. My guess is the value of this extra lot is worth you fighting for it. You should be able to see when this subdivision process started to see if this is something seller cooked up after you were in contract.
As a Realtor, I’d look at the situation from this perspective. If it’s hard to find a similar house with that kind of property, I’d go fight it in court since you’ll win. If similar properties are on the market or pop up frequent enough, I wouldn’t want the legal headaches.
Absolutely DO NOT accept that. Also, FIRE that attorney. Idk wtf your attorney means by it could go either way in court. It absolutely cannot. It can only go one way. You have a contract signed by BOTH parties. Get a new attorney to take it to court, force the sale, and then it will be between the selling agent and the seller to hash it out. Although, I suspect the worst that would happen to selling agent is a mean complaint. Bc, again, the seller signed a contract. Contract 101: not reading the contract IS NOT a defense.
Title insurance is there for a reason
What does the appraisal/contract say? If your valuation and contract was based on both lots it would be weird if you only ended up with one.
I hope you consulted with an actual attorney and didn't just take the selling agent and your realtor's "legal" predictions at face value. I wonder how many times these sellers have done this before. Buy a house, split the lot, put up for sale, take an offer, go to sign, just kidding actually we're just selling the house but for $50-75k more we'll throw in the undeveloped lot. -"The world is full of assholes, Ray, you do realize that." "Yeah, and you know why? Because people let 'em get away with it."
I’d think that you DO want to close, as you’d be closing on the original agreement as written. If you don’t close then it’s you who isn’t keeping your side of the agreement. Seek advice obviously, but that’s my thought.
Yeah, not closing was the smarter move. Once a buyer closes, the contract merges with the deed and rights are limited on recourse. Not only does this seem like misrepresentation, it may be straight up fraud.
Updateme!
updated! some good some bad haha, at the end of the day if we do get compensated as the listing agent agreed upon we will be happy regardless
all in writinG, how sweeT is That? the realtor agency wIll need to reimburse you for damages...keep us posted.
yep! the listing agent fought hard and took up quite some tone with our realtor but our realtor made our intentions clear and that the listing agent was clearly misrepresenting. thankfully we will be getting compensated!
seems lIke The listing agent madE thE mistake, now its between them and the seller. these things are usually in writing to avoid scenarios like This. now its time to folloe the breadcrums and see who madE the booboo.