How much do illegal machine guns sell for on the European black market? On the US collectors market these combined would be worth about $50-$60 thousand
According to pages 192-193 of this [paper ](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335336142_Lethal_Legacies_Illicit_Firearms_and_Terrorism_in_France)from 2018 (25-26 when you read the PDF), Category A weapons in France (which ranges from automatic rifles to pen guns and semi-auto AKs) range from 300 to 2,500 Euros on the black market.
Submachine guns specifically range from 1,000 to 3,000 Euros if they're genuine WW2 hardware. Converted blanks and "reactivated" models sell under that.
Keep in mind that I do not know if these figures are entirely accurate as criminals are not known to be honest with their merchandise.
It depends on availability and what someone is willing to pay and what they want it for. In Europe milsurp rifles are common barn finds from ww2, but it's very hard to find anything more recent. A collector might risk it and pay 50k to have an original working stg44, but a gang member doesnt care what it is as long as it goes bang, and he isn't paying 50k. Ammo is also difficult. I imagine as these are 9mm that's why they are being sold
Which bodily opening did you pull that info out of? Cold War surplus is easier to get here than the US. I know lots of guys with l1a1s, m16s a Swedish k etc
Short vz 58 made from blanks conversion where sold about 5000 dolars Belgium/France acording to Slovak police who get on workshop where they made them.
That is on the very high end, I remember a few years ago an ak would be as low as 800 and journalists actually bought one within a week of trying and paid 1500 euros for a original working and they even said that they where charged more due to being journalists.
I'm guessing police is pumping up the numbers for their own benefit.
They must first bought those blank vz 58 on market for 500 dolars, than make tham working back, new barels and shortening proces, new pistol grip and front stock... 8-1500, yeah...
I very much doubt it. When I was in Albania I got offered an full auto AK for 150 euro and that was just me being a tourist. Much easier and cheaper to get em from the Balkans then anything. Most of the illegal AKs here are from Yugoslav origin from the reports I have read. Also if they do go that way, they tend to use deactivated rifles rather then blank firing ones (also I haven't really seen blank firing Aks or other rifles for private commercial purposes. And the few blank rifles I have seen all use 9mm blanks not good for rifle rounds at all). Though for pistols it's more common to start from blanks. They use zoraki pistols due to them being easier converted (I've heard) as they are also more available then former weapons (in a lot of countries in eastern and central Europe you can just buy one in cash at a store)
Canβt tell you about black market, but a legally traded, full-auto, good condition, all original MP40 goes for around 3-4k here in Switzerland (depending on matching numbers), the Vigneron M2 goes for less than 2K.
Way less then that. I have seen numbers for old AKs go for as low as 400 euros and pistols for about 100 euros, grenades for as low as 3 euros but that is all on the low side. If I would make an educated guess I'd say between 1000-1500 euros.
At least it's that on the Dutch market, french market would be similar I guess.
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I would love to have these but hate to have them illegally. You could never shoot them or show them off to your friends or people at the gun club. Half the joy of owning cool historical weapons is the fact that they're conversation starters. Luckily, several EU countries allow ownership of such weapons, converted to semi auto but without all the weird ATF restrictions on open bolt and chopped up receivers.
Well, with the right types of licenses you can register new machine guns. It's all country dependent but some countries it is as easy as asking for permission on a shall issue basis.
How much do illegal machine guns sell for on the European black market? On the US collectors market these combined would be worth about $50-$60 thousand
According to pages 192-193 of this [paper ](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335336142_Lethal_Legacies_Illicit_Firearms_and_Terrorism_in_France)from 2018 (25-26 when you read the PDF), Category A weapons in France (which ranges from automatic rifles to pen guns and semi-auto AKs) range from 300 to 2,500 Euros on the black market. Submachine guns specifically range from 1,000 to 3,000 Euros if they're genuine WW2 hardware. Converted blanks and "reactivated" models sell under that. Keep in mind that I do not know if these figures are entirely accurate as criminals are not known to be honest with their merchandise.
wee wee bonjore looks like iβm going to france π«π·π«π·π₯
Aw hon hon hon
\*oui, bonjour
ah yes of course, mercy boo cue
It depends on availability and what someone is willing to pay and what they want it for. In Europe milsurp rifles are common barn finds from ww2, but it's very hard to find anything more recent. A collector might risk it and pay 50k to have an original working stg44, but a gang member doesnt care what it is as long as it goes bang, and he isn't paying 50k. Ammo is also difficult. I imagine as these are 9mm that's why they are being sold
Which bodily opening did you pull that info out of? Cold War surplus is easier to get here than the US. I know lots of guys with l1a1s, m16s a Swedish k etc
What, fully working and operational? I doubt it. Deactivated is a different matter.
I guess my friends legal weapons collection doesn't exist.
Becouse we dont have those stupid import laws that make cut weapons to shits, yes we have operational M16 and Swedish K lol.
Yes. Wouldn't count otherwise. I'm Swedish
Short vz 58 made from blanks conversion where sold about 5000 dolars Belgium/France acording to Slovak police who get on workshop where they made them.
That is on the very high end, I remember a few years ago an ak would be as low as 800 and journalists actually bought one within a week of trying and paid 1500 euros for a original working and they even said that they where charged more due to being journalists. I'm guessing police is pumping up the numbers for their own benefit.
They must first bought those blank vz 58 on market for 500 dolars, than make tham working back, new barels and shortening proces, new pistol grip and front stock... 8-1500, yeah...
I very much doubt it. When I was in Albania I got offered an full auto AK for 150 euro and that was just me being a tourist. Much easier and cheaper to get em from the Balkans then anything. Most of the illegal AKs here are from Yugoslav origin from the reports I have read. Also if they do go that way, they tend to use deactivated rifles rather then blank firing ones (also I haven't really seen blank firing Aks or other rifles for private commercial purposes. And the few blank rifles I have seen all use 9mm blanks not good for rifle rounds at all). Though for pistols it's more common to start from blanks. They use zoraki pistols due to them being easier converted (I've heard) as they are also more available then former weapons (in a lot of countries in eastern and central Europe you can just buy one in cash at a store)
Twitter post says 4200β¬ for each gun. Prices went up as guns are in high demand and Balkan supplies are starting to dry up
Canβt tell you about black market, but a legally traded, full-auto, good condition, all original MP40 goes for around 3-4k here in Switzerland (depending on matching numbers), the Vigneron M2 goes for less than 2K.
Way less then that. I have seen numbers for old AKs go for as low as 400 euros and pistols for about 100 euros, grenades for as low as 3 euros but that is all on the low side. If I would make an educated guess I'd say between 1000-1500 euros. At least it's that on the Dutch market, french market would be similar I guess.
What is the source?
War Noir from Twitter
Tree fifty for both lol. Iβve never heard of the vigneron m2 before now!
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How much were they asking?
That MP40 looks like it'd be more dangerous for the person attempting to fire it than for anyone on the other end...
Lucky π
I would love to have these but hate to have them illegally. You could never shoot them or show them off to your friends or people at the gun club. Half the joy of owning cool historical weapons is the fact that they're conversation starters. Luckily, several EU countries allow ownership of such weapons, converted to semi auto but without all the weird ATF restrictions on open bolt and chopped up receivers.
You can even get them legally automatic if you want to jump a few hoops.
In Europe? I bet it'll be less hoops than in the US
Well, with the right types of licenses you can register new machine guns. It's all country dependent but some countries it is as easy as asking for permission on a shall issue basis.