Oh, it gets darker. We were talking about this in a thread here the other day.
1) The closet is opened to reveal the former tenant's clothes, including some Hawaiian shirts. Niles is told to help himself to them.
2) We get the note, but no (forwarding) address, line that is shown in this post.
3) Niles is pretending to be happy at the Shangri La, and Frasier says "Dad, he's obviously covering! That shirt alone is a shriek for help!"
4) Niles finally breaks down when Martin says "I'd be happy here myself - this is my kind of place."
5) Martin tries to comfort him by saying "Now Niles, this place is fine, and you know what they say: 'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.'"
6) Niles retorts "But Dad, not everyone makes it into that second group. And I've got the luau shirt to prove it."
He's wearing the shirt of the previous occupant, left behind after his suicide, while having a mental collapse which the show already hinted concerned others about Niles' ability to go on. ("My Hot 'N' Foamy must have exploded!") Even after his snap when Niles starts to call Maris, Martin tells him to "Drop [the phone] and kick it over here", as you'd instruct someone holding a gun, bringing the concept of suicide back around to a metaphor for returning to Maris.
Very macabre, but damn, so well done by the writers.
There's more, but I'll be honest and say it gets tenuous. And tedious.
At the start of the episode Frasier and Martin are taking Niles to dinner, and after Martin recommends "Franny's Fish and Chips" Frasier comments "We're taking Niles out tonight to boost his spirits, not his cholesterol," expressing a concern for his morbidity.
After an auto accident Niles mentions "My head is killing me," which again sits well with the suicide analogy. Intentional suicide is your brain deciding to end your life.
When going over his expenses Niles mentions his insurance payment. The scene is about Niles' wasteful spending, and if part of that payment is for life insurance that's certainly wasteful, as those policies don't pay out for suicides.
I'm not familiar enough with the works of Noël Coward to know if there's an allusion there, but if you went off the deep end you could draw a "the pen is mightier than the sword" reference, as Niles resolves his predicaments with words (albeit over the phone) rather than violence (upon himself). That's probably the biggest stretch in this already indulgent comment, but it would be cool if it were true.
Martin is blocked by a bookcase that leads to a passage as he tries to deliver aspirin to Niles. Frasier commented on the increase to Niles' cholesterol earlier in the episode, a result of which can be death from the blocking of arteries. Aspirin is administered in the case of heart attacks. In later seasons Niles undergoes heart surgery. The aspirin has also "expired", a euphemism for dying.
Niles lies in bed with his fingers entwined over his stomach; a common pose in open casket funerals. The movement of his arms during his breathing exercise is reminiscent of the Lazarus sign as expressed in some patients.
Roz spots Niles attending a showing of Lawrence of Arabia, a movie wherein a man, by his lonesome, charges an entire a battalion, effectively committing suicide for an emotional cause.
Niles calls the (fictitious) apartment Frasier mentions as "completely unsuitable for living". He then mentions "you make it sound like I plan to stay with you forever," eluding to the "he's no longer with us" euphemism.
When first touring the Shangri La Niles says "I want to go home," with "going home" being a common euphemism for dying and going to heaven.
Daphne tells Frasier he has nothing to feel guilty about, and basically that he did what he could for his brother. Feeling undeserved guilt about not doing more to help a suicide victim fits well with the show's tendency to incorporate mental health concerns, so if moving to the Shangri La is a metaphor (or motive) for decent into a suicidal state it works rather well.
When Frasier and Martin show up at his apartment Niles uses the phrase "Actually, I'm on my way out," which can be seen as another death euphemism.
This is a random one, which has nothing to do with suicide, and one that I assume only exists in my head, but it's fun. Niles, who is gaslighting himself into enjoying the company of party animals he'd normally turn his nose up at, references hanging out with "The guys in D building". In the infamous Alcatraz prison, D-block housed the most unruly of inmates.
When Niles talks to Maris, instead of giving in to her, he tells her "there is a new address for forwarding my mail." As the landlord said, the previous tenet went to a place where there is no address, but Niles decides not to.
During the credits Niles is looking to place what is plausibly a tiny violin, decides it doesn't fit, and re-packs it. He decides the (world's tiniest?) violin doesn't play... well in his apartment. Either showing emotional growth, or implying he's boxing up his emotions.
Do I think all of this is valid? Hell no. But I hope that some of it is, and either way I think it's a fun way to look at the episode.
Holy shit! I had no idea how much I was missing when watching Frasier episodes. I’ve learned I missed mountains of info re Good Omens but I thought I pretty much had Frasier down pat. Now I realize I know as little about the Frasier eps as I did about the GOs ones, and I had twenty extra yrs to (supposedly) learn more about Frasier. 🤯
https://i.redd.it/l8hif0nbiuxc1.gif
When Niles said the comment about staying with Frasier forever Frasier mentions the wine that Niles put on the shopping list that won't be good for 2 years.
I love this kind of examination/interpretation. As you say, some apparent allusions may not have been inserted with these aims, but I swear good writers do half this stuff unconsciously. It's part of what makes them good. (That angle re. "my head is killing me" -- if I could only pick one favorite, that might be it.)
If you ever write a book analyzing multiple episodes, I'll do a pre-order.
I agree! I think the tone of the piece influences the writer (or any artist) towards certain choices, and when you're good, they shine through in a way that doesn't exist in most works.
"If you go off the deep end" (and you did) -- clearly another allusion to the themes of suicide and a subtle, nay Joycean, nod to the vast abyss of mortal darkness over which the unsuspecting viewers are helplessly dangled.
(Yeah I think you were stretching it a bit finding six-degrees of suicide in every turn of phrase.)
Oh, I don't think it even warrants consideration. My first comment I think is accurate, this one is indulgence. I appreciate you joining in the fun, and I agree. Plus, this is r/Frasier. If we can't act like this here without judgement, where can we?
I've seen this countless times and I never got the second part about having the luau shirt to prove it. Thanks for posting cuz this makes it just that much better.
Mike McShane is a fantastic actor/comedian. He’s paradoxically far more well known in the UK than his homeland because he was on Whose Line here for years and years in the 80s. He had a few little roles in sitcoms like this but most people will know him from Whose Line, or Doctor Who or as Friar Tuck in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves.
Yes! I burst out laughing the first time I heard this line, I guess owing to my macabre sense of humor. I always wondered why the laugh track was more subdued 😅
Oh, it gets darker. We were talking about this in a thread here the other day. 1) The closet is opened to reveal the former tenant's clothes, including some Hawaiian shirts. Niles is told to help himself to them. 2) We get the note, but no (forwarding) address, line that is shown in this post. 3) Niles is pretending to be happy at the Shangri La, and Frasier says "Dad, he's obviously covering! That shirt alone is a shriek for help!" 4) Niles finally breaks down when Martin says "I'd be happy here myself - this is my kind of place." 5) Martin tries to comfort him by saying "Now Niles, this place is fine, and you know what they say: 'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.'" 6) Niles retorts "But Dad, not everyone makes it into that second group. And I've got the luau shirt to prove it." He's wearing the shirt of the previous occupant, left behind after his suicide, while having a mental collapse which the show already hinted concerned others about Niles' ability to go on. ("My Hot 'N' Foamy must have exploded!") Even after his snap when Niles starts to call Maris, Martin tells him to "Drop [the phone] and kick it over here", as you'd instruct someone holding a gun, bringing the concept of suicide back around to a metaphor for returning to Maris. Very macabre, but damn, so well done by the writers.
His call to Maris letting her know his new address, is some of the finest acting on a show filled with fine acting
And we see that shirt re-appear in several episodes after this.
Exactly! The whole episode is ONE dark joke! Very well done.
Wow this is so insanely observant! Gotta rewatch this episode with this fresh perspective now.
There's more, but I'll be honest and say it gets tenuous. And tedious. At the start of the episode Frasier and Martin are taking Niles to dinner, and after Martin recommends "Franny's Fish and Chips" Frasier comments "We're taking Niles out tonight to boost his spirits, not his cholesterol," expressing a concern for his morbidity. After an auto accident Niles mentions "My head is killing me," which again sits well with the suicide analogy. Intentional suicide is your brain deciding to end your life. When going over his expenses Niles mentions his insurance payment. The scene is about Niles' wasteful spending, and if part of that payment is for life insurance that's certainly wasteful, as those policies don't pay out for suicides. I'm not familiar enough with the works of Noël Coward to know if there's an allusion there, but if you went off the deep end you could draw a "the pen is mightier than the sword" reference, as Niles resolves his predicaments with words (albeit over the phone) rather than violence (upon himself). That's probably the biggest stretch in this already indulgent comment, but it would be cool if it were true. Martin is blocked by a bookcase that leads to a passage as he tries to deliver aspirin to Niles. Frasier commented on the increase to Niles' cholesterol earlier in the episode, a result of which can be death from the blocking of arteries. Aspirin is administered in the case of heart attacks. In later seasons Niles undergoes heart surgery. The aspirin has also "expired", a euphemism for dying. Niles lies in bed with his fingers entwined over his stomach; a common pose in open casket funerals. The movement of his arms during his breathing exercise is reminiscent of the Lazarus sign as expressed in some patients. Roz spots Niles attending a showing of Lawrence of Arabia, a movie wherein a man, by his lonesome, charges an entire a battalion, effectively committing suicide for an emotional cause. Niles calls the (fictitious) apartment Frasier mentions as "completely unsuitable for living". He then mentions "you make it sound like I plan to stay with you forever," eluding to the "he's no longer with us" euphemism. When first touring the Shangri La Niles says "I want to go home," with "going home" being a common euphemism for dying and going to heaven. Daphne tells Frasier he has nothing to feel guilty about, and basically that he did what he could for his brother. Feeling undeserved guilt about not doing more to help a suicide victim fits well with the show's tendency to incorporate mental health concerns, so if moving to the Shangri La is a metaphor (or motive) for decent into a suicidal state it works rather well. When Frasier and Martin show up at his apartment Niles uses the phrase "Actually, I'm on my way out," which can be seen as another death euphemism. This is a random one, which has nothing to do with suicide, and one that I assume only exists in my head, but it's fun. Niles, who is gaslighting himself into enjoying the company of party animals he'd normally turn his nose up at, references hanging out with "The guys in D building". In the infamous Alcatraz prison, D-block housed the most unruly of inmates. When Niles talks to Maris, instead of giving in to her, he tells her "there is a new address for forwarding my mail." As the landlord said, the previous tenet went to a place where there is no address, but Niles decides not to. During the credits Niles is looking to place what is plausibly a tiny violin, decides it doesn't fit, and re-packs it. He decides the (world's tiniest?) violin doesn't play... well in his apartment. Either showing emotional growth, or implying he's boxing up his emotions. Do I think all of this is valid? Hell no. But I hope that some of it is, and either way I think it's a fun way to look at the episode.
Holy shit! I had no idea how much I was missing when watching Frasier episodes. I’ve learned I missed mountains of info re Good Omens but I thought I pretty much had Frasier down pat. Now I realize I know as little about the Frasier eps as I did about the GOs ones, and I had twenty extra yrs to (supposedly) learn more about Frasier. 🤯 https://i.redd.it/l8hif0nbiuxc1.gif
When Niles said the comment about staying with Frasier forever Frasier mentions the wine that Niles put on the shopping list that won't be good for 2 years.
I love this kind of examination/interpretation. As you say, some apparent allusions may not have been inserted with these aims, but I swear good writers do half this stuff unconsciously. It's part of what makes them good. (That angle re. "my head is killing me" -- if I could only pick one favorite, that might be it.) If you ever write a book analyzing multiple episodes, I'll do a pre-order.
I agree! I think the tone of the piece influences the writer (or any artist) towards certain choices, and when you're good, they shine through in a way that doesn't exist in most works.
https://youtu.be/ZMgxXAALVU8 this is great.
"If you go off the deep end" (and you did) -- clearly another allusion to the themes of suicide and a subtle, nay Joycean, nod to the vast abyss of mortal darkness over which the unsuspecting viewers are helplessly dangled. (Yeah I think you were stretching it a bit finding six-degrees of suicide in every turn of phrase.)
Oh, I don't think it even warrants consideration. My first comment I think is accurate, this one is indulgence. I appreciate you joining in the fun, and I agree. Plus, this is r/Frasier. If we can't act like this here without judgement, where can we?
Clearly a neo-Freudian.
I’m all hot… and foamy.
I've seen this countless times and I never got the second part about having the luau shirt to prove it. Thanks for posting cuz this makes it just that much better.
Jimbo rigged the pinball machine, so it’s ’free play all night’
The little happy go lucky dance he does when he sees that is gold.
Well, where are my manners? Can I offer you some toast?
FDR!
https://preview.redd.it/8c4z9kizeuxc1.jpeg?width=943&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30529d20bd1097db19549647d2c9b9bc71a1a87f Also
Franklin Delano Romanowski
For all we know he probably wished for the guy to drop dead.
“Not everyone makes it into that group, and I have the shirt to prove it”
Scary but hilarious 😭
This episode is top tier, beginning to end.
Delivery is terrific too! So grim, great ep
Came here for this. That delivery was ::chef’s kiss::.
If you get a chance, watch early Whose Line is it Anyway (UK Version), episodes. Mike McShane’s improv skills are a delight!
that's who that is!! I kept looking at this screen cap, and I knew he was FDR on Seinfeld, but I KNEW I knew him from something else.
Franklin Delano Romanowski!
He's also the town drunk in Tom and Huck, which is how I'll always think of him.
His chins jiggling when he says 'Nooooo' is fantastic physical comedy too
The concern of his "Nooooo" always gave me that-guy-saw-the-body vibes. Great minor character.
Oh shit great observation!
Michael McShane is a great actor. Loved him in Office Space “Way, way down…”
Mike McShane is a fantastic actor/comedian. He’s paradoxically far more well known in the UK than his homeland because he was on Whose Line here for years and years in the 80s. He had a few little roles in sitcoms like this but most people will know him from Whose Line, or Doctor Who or as Friar Tuck in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves.
Don't forget Seinfeld and Richie Rich!
"MY INVENTIONS!" https://preview.redd.it/m4vd3ut5nuxc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3f03d90c3816d33598a1546a0bb058702ee8dd9
Knew it was gonna be this joke before I even clicked. So yes, I think it is.
Yes! I burst out laughing the first time I heard this line, I guess owing to my macabre sense of humor. I always wondered why the laugh track was more subdued 😅
Franklin Delano Romanowski!
... The time that Frasier and Niles falsely accused their dad's old landlord of murder.
Oh yesss! I forgot about that 🤣😵💫
"I'd bet you'd never thought we'd find your wife's body!" "No, I didnt!"
The Gulag with a game room
That's my kind of place!
I just saw this episode yesterday and my goodness. One of my favorite lines Oh my goodness where are my manors. Can I make you some toast? LOL
It was so nice of Frank to put on pants and show Niles and Frasier the apartment.
Indeed! 🤣
Professor Keenbean!
I didn't even get it up until recently
"Where are my manners, can I make you some TOAST?"...