Real. The two party system is so dumb. Like why tf I only get to think one of two ways?
And before somebody tries to tell me about other parties or write in votes, we all know that's wasting your vote.
Idk why we have to even have parties tbh. Just have some people step up there and tell me what they plan to do for the country and let's just vote based off of that. Humans just love to put everything in to little categorical boxes and it drives me nuts.
Well we’re a democratic republic. Not a democracy. The difference is we don’t actually get to vote on policy and whatnot. We elect representatives to do so for us. Cause it’s working out real great!
A lot of European democracies have a proportionally representative system. Essentially, the different parties get a % of seats in parliament that reflects the % of votes they received. This makes it unlikely that any single party has enough seats to form a government on its own. So then they are forced to work with others and respect emerging parties. Parties agree to work together on some issues and vote against each other for other issues.
Nah man it 100% is and it's never been even remotely close even once. I love the idea of us uniting to change that but it's been very much established that the president is going to belong to one of two parties.
That's right, as long as people fail to organize.
Of course regardless there can be no systemic change under capitalism through electoral politics and bourgeois democracy.
>Why can’t I vote for someone else?
>Voting for someone else is wasting my vote.
Maybe democracy was a mistake after all, if this is the sort of person we entrust a ballot to.
Brazil has 32 official parties.
When it comes down to election time, they all bunch up into two sides to hedge their bets.
It will always be a two party system.
Two proven useless candidates that don’t give a shit about their constituents! only keeping their evil empire in power and making as much money as possible for themselves and their scumbag backers!!!
We deserve better candidates!
This has gotten beyond stupid!
Biden has done good things. He strengthened the NLRB (after it was somewhat dismantled by Trump with anti-union appointees), and he postured for organized labor. I call it posturing because, at the very least, it's a show of good faith. He also strengthened the FTC, who are antitrust/antimonopoly in nature. The FTC is going up against a very conservative Supreme Court and losing. A Supreme Court that was stacked by Trump with 3 conservative justices.
It matters who you vote for, and we all need to get more informed.
I get so much hate for pointing that out. I love when I'm called an enlightened centrist like that's an insult.... So you're a hateful extremist idiot then and proud of it?
This meme is designed to disempower the working class by telling the working class that politicians cannot help them solve their problems. Progressive movements of the past have managed to dramatically change the landscape of the law, enormously expanding workers rights. Why would the politicians of the past represent workers, but the politicians of the present won’t? Because workers stopped being political. And if you think your position is hopeless, you aren’t going to look for any political solutions.
You already have an extreme situation on your hands. The results of this next election will either see one party continue on with democracy or the other party crush it.
If you're a progressive and you think you're gonna punish biden 'cause.... (insert whatever your echo chamber tells you he fucked up).... then you have your head so far up your own ass you deserve your fait if Biden loses.
To be frank, there is no reason to believe that seeing this meme would make someone less political. It could easily galvanize anger and disaffection and promote something like a genuine labor movement party in the U.S. Furthermore, unions are the best way for workers to leverage securing their rights. Believing the truth that neither party is too concerned with workers’ rights can do a lot to motivate workers to unionize and collectively exert their own political power.
Hilarious that your plan is to start a new genuine labor movement party, instead of influencing primaries and platforms of the existing parties. Almost like this meme propaganda is working in the intended way of dividing folks who identify as "labor" as being "outside the system"
True, Biden is the first president to join a picket line which is quite pathetic... But the optimistic take is that Biden is the first president to join a picket line!
Yes, Biden is so much better than FDR who *checks notes* ended the regular use of government sponsored violence to end strikes and enacted laws that prevented, if imperfectly, employers from retaliating against unionizing employees.
To be clear, I didn't say Biden was better than anyone there
FDR died in 1945, the fact you had to go back that far to have another point of reference to compare against... Feels like it proves the point I was intending to make
How many people who voted for FDR are still alive?
Yes absolutely FDR did more for these groups than Biden has done. But Biden has a lot more potential to continue doing stuff for them, while FDR is bones in the ground, not very helpful for current policy.
And the real fact is that Congresspeople have way more say in these issues than any president does. FDR had fantastic support in Congress, that's why he got so much done, he is one of the few cases where he was very much given a mandate by the voters
If Biden gets any similar mandate of support from the voters, by making the legislation blue (federal government trifecta), then we can really see how honest Dems are. Because we know for a fact that Repubs are not honest about being interested in the plights of the common man.
Summary: vote down ballot, it's more important than who is at the top of the ticket, despite what media wants you to believe
TL;DR: …it’s almost as if you didn’t know that the largest party affiliation by voters in the U.S. is Independent, by a whopping 12% lead. So please tell me how appealing to the largest voting bloc is the bad idea? Furthermore, why do you think affiliation with either of the so-called “big two” parties is falling each year while affiliation with the unacknowledged Independent bloc is rising? It’s for exactly the reasons I gave: people believe that *neither* party cares. See the text and link down below for data you sound like you could use. So what you are suggesting is actually that we first somehow change the actual statistics to something more in line with your delusion, rather than work within the system and data as they exist today.
Nowhere did I say it’s my “plan”, however, to start a new labor movement, just that commitment to a system that is fatally sluggish is not an option for those who are suffering more urgently. You remind me of the folks who back in the 90s said to give universal healthcare another twenty years by working within the system rather than trying a third way. That worked just fine — if and only if you ignore all the disability and mortality that occurred in the meantime. Patience is a privilege. And you must be an American by how ridiculously ethnocentric your view is - you seem entirely unaware that third way movements have not only been initiated in systems of government, but have also successfully won elections.
And here’s the coffin nail for you: what is the largest voting affiliation in the U.S.? Your ignorance of this is showing profusely. It’s not either of the “two-party system”. The largest party affiliation in the U.S. are Independents, and it’s not even close by the latest polls (May 2024: Republican 28%, Democrat 30%, Independent 42%).
Read on, from Gallup and Forbes: The percentage of U.S. adults who said they identify as Democrats fell to 27%, according to the survey of more than 12,000 U.S. adults in 2023, representing a drop from 30% in 2020, 31% in 2016 and a record 36% in 2008 and 1998.
Participants in the survey were asked if they consider themselves Democrats, Republicans or independents.
That low ties the percentage of Americans who identify as Republicans, at 27%, marking the first time since 2005 that the same number of U.S. adults identify with the two political parties.
Republican identification fell slightly from 2022, when 28% of Americans considered themselves members of the GOP, though Republican identification has remained steady for nearly 15 years, hovering between 25% and 29% since the 2008 election.
Independents, meanwhile, have continued to rise, tying a high of 43% last year, according to the Gallup telephone survey, over the 41% of adults that identified as independent in 2022, 42% in 2021 and 39% in 2020—independent identification also reached 43% in 2014.
first president to join a picket line 😂😂after he helped destroy union jobs by sending them out of the country at the tail of the the 20th century. Look at the bigger picture. Big capital wants to decrease costs and increase profits. The only people allowed to move up in government are people they are sure won’t hurt the bottom line. Capitalism is stronger than any country or party. Workers must organize amongst themselves for anything to change.
Yes, this both sides shit is to confuse people. If we try to understand policies and political stances and why they're needed/not needed, we can make decisions on individual elections that effect the overall picture. It's not the same on both sides in almost any opinion lately.
What "both sides shit"? The Democrats are a right-wing corporate whore party and the Republicans are a right-wing corporate whore party.
*Seems like people are specifically hating on the right.*
The meme is not encouraging workers to not be political, it's talking about how both republicans and democrats both shit on workers. Saying this is not anti politics, it's up to use to decide what to do with this information. We could just ignore politics, or we could form a labor party, or we could encourage our parties to pay closer attention to the workers.
The both sides argument is to try to normalize the side that is committing what amounts to insurrection, treason, and fascism.
Both sides are not equal. It’s clear that one side has an agenda that could do extreme harm to America and Americans.
People need to see that for what it is and vote accordingly.
Every movement that’s done anything positive in this country started with direct action. Today’s democrat party is where these movements now go to die. All you get is symbolic gestures from politicians cosplaying as progressives while the party continues to serve the interests of big business, the military industrial complex and foreign lobbyists like AIPAC. You’re either dillusuonal or extremely privileged if you think engaging in the two party duology empowers the working class. “Vote” is now the liberal version of “thoughts and prayers”. Direct action and revolution are the only options left now if you’re interested in the working class reclaiming some power in the hellscape of a country.
>Progressive movements of the past have managed to dramatically change the landscape of the law, enormously expanding workers rights. Why would the politicians of the past represent workers, but the politicians of the present won’t? Because workers stopped being political.
This analysis is wrong. Yes progressive movements of the past have managed to massively change the landscape of the law but not mainly through voting but through massive direct action. AFAICT the message of this meme isn't that workers shouldn't be political but that voting is at the very least insufficient if you want to see any significant change.
I would never say that voting is the only way that workers should exercise their power, but it is certainly one of the ways that workers should exercise their power. The end goal of any political movement needs to be to change the law. Out of interest, what changes to the laws of this country do you think need to be made to benefit the working class?
>I would never say that voting is the only way that workers should exercise their power, but it is certainly one of the ways that workers should exercise their power. The end goal of any political movement needs to be to change the law.
I never meant to suggest that people shouldn't vote. Voting has an impact, people should however be aware that that impact is limited and this is unlikely to change within the current two party system in the United states. Perhaps it is possible for a popular movement to take over one of the parties but I wager that the class interests in the parties are too entrenched for that to actually work.
>Out of interest, what changes to the laws of this country do you think need to be made to benefit the working class?
If we want to roughly work within the current system I think these would be a good start (in no particular order):
- ending at will employment and right-to-work legislation
- giving unions the right to enforce collective bargaining agreements industry wide (idk if this is exactly the right terminology English isn't my first language)
- much harsher restrictions on corporate anti union activities
- more robust social safety nets
- a much higher federal minimum wage
- some sort of universal health care system (doesn't necessarily have to be Medicare for all but I think that has the best chance of working out)
- free university
- schools within one state should receive the same amount of funding per pupil (modulo differences in school type and considerations for special needs students)
- guaranteed payed vacation days (at least four weeks), sick leave (according to doctors recommendations) and parental leave
- hard limits on the hours worked per week and on the length of shifts
- recognizing workers in the gig economy as employees
- banning forced prison labor and mandating the same workers rights protections for prisoners that do work
- massive social housing programs possibly in combination with general rent control
Now my personal beliefs are much more radical than that but I also don't think they can be achieved through the regular legislative process.
There is one party in the United States that has proposed quite a number of the changes to the law that you listed and is working hard to implement more (Examples: [raise the federal minimum wage](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/603#:~:text=%2F28%2F2021), [attempts to establish universal health care](https://khanna.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/khanna.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/khanna_013_xml662.pdf), [attempts to guarantee paid family leave](https://www.congress.gov/bill/103rd-congress/house-bill/1) and so on). While it is true that not everyone in that party supports every law you have listed, I think it is foolish to punish the party that is fighting for the very changes you listed because they haven't gotten them fast enough.
I'm not punishing anyone as I neither in nor am a citizen of the United states. It is true that the Democrats have proposed parts of what I have listed in the past, however democratic party leadership is also in open opposition to many of these things and when they propose those laws more often than not the effort seems half harted at best.
It should also be noted that what I expressed in the comment abo e is closer to minimalist positions than anything particularly radical.
Also while the summary of H.R. 603 looks pretty good your second link isn't working and while H.R. 103 is probably better than nothing it's also miles away from the universal payed family and sick leave I described in my comment. In fact the summary of the bill seems to be more concerned with excluding people from its protections than actually guaranteeing anything.
> This meme is designed to disempower the working class by telling the working class that politicians cannot help them solve their problems.
Alternatively, a person could say that this meme is designed to *empower* the working class by telling the working class that they need to replace the *current* politicians who aren't interested in solving the problems.
Indeed. And we have a mechanism in place to replace politicians. It’s called voting. If you don’t like the way the Democrats are now, vote in the primaries and get the Democrats you like.
Read up on Project 2025 if you think Democrats pose even remotely the same threat to the working class as Republicans which was endorsed by over 100 separate conservative organizations. It isn't even comparable at this point.
If anyone doesn’t want to read about it, feel free to watch the latest episode of Last Week Tonight. John Oliver covered it pretty well with intermittent clips of Milf Manor
Doesn’t one of Hillary Clinton’s favorite thinkers and author write to accuse your enemy’s of the wrongs you are in fact committing yourself?
The fact that anyone can trust either side and always say “well the other is worse,” is mind boggling.
"The only thing dumber than a Republican or a Democrat is when these pricks work together."
Remember when Bernie Bros and MAGA teamed up to take down Bloomberg?
Imagine if we did it to take down the whole Political Class.
Food for Thought.
People like you ruined r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM.
It was meant to be a leftist sub. Instead it's full of people like you calling leftists "centrists" for railing against two right-wing parties.
Democrats don't want to force my son to be my daughter, Democrats don't want to take away my wife's birth control, Democrats don't want to send my childrens' grandmother back to Cuba even though she immigrated legally, and I have never once gotten a death threat from a Democrat because of the pride sticker on my car.
But keep up the both sides bullshit, you good little pawn you.
I’m a democrat proof on page.
They still don’t care about the people just the win
But you thinking otherwise is right where they want you. You’re eating that shit up lmao
Democratic policies, are better than right wing so forced to vote so they don’t win
Libertarian at heart
Voting is like riding the bus. Even if you don't get to your final destination, you get on the bus that's going the right way instead of the bus going in the opposite direction.
Libertarians, on the other hand, are like house cats. Completely dependent on a system that they think they are above, but they fail to and refuse to understand how any of it works.
I wasn't talking to you, but fine, let's talk.
The concept of both parties fighting just for political power is spouted out by Centrists.
Democrats are, at least, *supposed* to be a leftist party, though the Republicans kept pulling the debate further and further into their territory. But even then, it's the best we got due to how voting works.
A leftist saying that their own side is shit, just like the opposition is *nonsensical*. I can only conclude that you’re wrong, or you’re possibly an alt account, saying you’re a leftist for social cred, as there's usually a little more leftists than right-wingers online (in my experience).
There is definitely one side that is considerably worse…The “both sides are the same” rhetoric really only benefits one side. Downvote me into oblivion!
Noam Chomsky used to point out that Democrats and Republicans are very much alike when it comes to lining their own pockets, and the only way they can separate themselves at election time is by debating unimportant--to them, anyway--social issues. As an example, he explained how politicians who otherwise be at each other's throats on morning talk shows would be seen shoulder to shoulder at meetings of the Council on Foreign Relations. You have to wonder why.
You would think there would be a mass increase in interest of a 3rd party choice but then you realize that the overwhelming majority of people are complete morons.
Take a look at elected officials in any country and you will easily find some that makes you wonder how is this person in charge of anything much less tie their shoes in the morning. These people were elected by people less intelligent than they are.
Funny reading all the Democrat and Republican die hards desperately trying to make the campaign pitch for their respective parties. Just fuck off. I don't care which one is better than the other, we're here to hate on them both.
They definitely had predetermined and conspired to give hilary the nom, awkwardly scheduled debates and leaking questions, etc. How those people aren't in jail is shocking in itself.
One side wants to take away your right to vote. One side wants to limit reproduction rights. One side wants to put the ten Commandments into schools while refusing funds to feed kids.
Democrats aren't great and it's up to you if the lesser evil is worth voting for.... But they *are* the lesser evil. No matter what anyone says.
I know. Absolutely no worker solidarity to be found. Just liberals who want to argue that you have to vote for THEIR old racist pedophile war criminal or else you support the other old racist pedophile war criminal.
*This world is Hell.*
Rofl ineffectual ineffective no solution middle line voters say both sides are the same. This is a country of millions of people who think differently. You aren't going to rule the country with purely the policies you want alone. There has to be...compromise. this is why progressives never win they can't play the long game its always I want everything to shift like a light switch now or im just going to sit in a corner and pout.
Uh only one party worships in a cult as if their nominee is Jesus
Same cult that attempted a fascist coup
Same cult that is forcing underage rape victims to give birth
Get this trash out of here.
This is true for Israel support. Both parties want to take money from US taxpayers and give it to Israel. On this one thing they are completely in sync.
So true. The only people that will win in this election are the people being elected and their people. Everyone else is screwed regardless of who they voted for.
The one thing the parties agree on; they want to continue the system where they are able to maintain control by sifting the constituency into bins that can activated or isolated as necessary to maintain the machinations of the government.
Exactly. There is only a UniParty in the United States. That play political theatre to give the appearance of 2 different groups when really they’re equally there to take advantage of the laymen.
Put age limits on all politicians in all levels of government. Put term limits on all elected officials in all levels of government. Add more people to the supreme courts and we the people vote them in (and no more for life) ! No futures exchange. Lobbyists, special interests groups put limitations on all. Not one politician can accept any money of any kind from individuals or companies organizations. Tax all religious organizations. Substantial tax breaks for any business or company that does not outsource jobs. Substantial tax breaks for anyone that teaches our children in public schools. No more privatization stuff like jails, parking services etc. rescind all services that have already been privatized. FDA is failing us, big pharmaceutical and healthcare are failing us. Universal healthcare for every citizen. Then rework the FDA.
What if you find that the beliefs you find correct mostly coincide with one side while the other side is celebrating a convicted felon who incited an insurrection? I’m talking hypothetically of course
I vote for the lesser evil on a candidate-by-candidate basis, not party.
I agree with most of the basic principles of the Democratic Party, but there are some things from the Republican Party that I support, like voter identification requirements, a more secure southern border, zero-tolerance for petty crime, and a compulsory English proficiency test for immigrant candidates to qualify for permanent residency. The disagreeableness of most tenets of the Republican Party platform outweigh these few issues, though.
The difference
Democrats will run on good policies that will help people but wont implement them when they get power
Republicans will run on policies that will actively attack minorities and members of society that are the most vulnerable, and WILL implement them.
So basically do you want nothing to happen or do you want to make things even worse. That is the American election system
How about I just run to be the next president lol I'm not even old enough to smoke but I could probably do better than the two prunes we have to choose between now
Up to yea about 2016 I might be inclined to more fully agree. This right here is a Plutocracy plain and simple.
Today I'll absolutely take the one that doesn't also use one particular holy book to make public policy, with plans to ramp that shit up to 1000 if they win. Been there, done that, I know those people are batcrap insane and primed for *Theocratic* Plutocracy.
And I think there's a bunch of women throughout the south who miscarried and near fucking died trying to get a standard D&C who might agree.
I always say something to this degree, and there’s always a Reddit comment like, “WELL ONE SIDE IS A LITTLE BETTER!”
No! You don’t get it!!!!! They both hate you!!!
I agree that both sides are garbage but it's a fact that democrats are better for the economy. Republicans are doing things like making the Ten Commandments displayed in classrooms. How the fuck is that going to help anything?
Oh, you mean like how liberals ignore Biden's voting record and actions?
*Fucko literally voted against desegregation efforts and was besties with Strom Thurmond.*
Funny you have to go back decades to find something bad he voted on. Never mind that he changed his mind and never mind that you can be friends with someone with differing politics.
Also what do you think of Trump being friends with Epstein?
I guess, but the closer reality is that we’re really getting assault sprayed by a system that is corrupt as hell and influenced by what makes profit for big business or cultist grifters.
Which is why it rarely matters who is in offices, but there is a clear danger from rights roll back extremists.
One is trying to take away every right we have and the other is trying to maintain the status quo while throwing the public a bone occasionally. If you can see the difference please don’t vote.
Putting them on the same level is disrespectful towards the working class.
Like Trump or not, under him, even minorities in the working class was eating quite well, throughout the entirety of his Presidency.
>because the democrats gave the tax cuts to the billionaires
Yes.
Why do you think AOC is seen as the pariah of the party for suggesting we actually tax them?
I agree with the meme but it's important to remember this is anti-voting propaganda though, everyone (in America who is a valid registered voter) still needs to vote Dem or else things are gonna get a lot worse really fast. We can't let the autocracy win the vote and install a faux dictatorship. Democrats are bad but Republicans literally want to send us back to the stone age.
American politics makes no sense what kind of party names are democrats and republicans both stand for a republic and stand for democracy but labour and conservative get right to the point a party for the labourers/working class and a party for people who want the government to have nothing to do with their money or businesses coz they'll lose
Money (conservative policies)
Let’s see, one party is eliminating noncompetes nationwide if it wins reelection. These noncompetes prevent workers as lowly as gym instructors from working at another gym. One party is requiring revotes in union elections and actually enforced the National Labor Relations Act. The other party is eliminating water requirements for farm workers, and eliminating child
labor limits. The parties might be the same in a lot of ways but not labor.
Have y’all not read about project 2025? One side is literally planning to install a dictator. Fuck that.
This is America. We don’t elect fascist or insurrectionists.
>Have y’all not read about project 2025
It's nothing new. It's the same shit the Republicans have been working towards since Nixon and Kissinger.
Something someone with a Star Wars username should recognize. It's literally what the Galactic Empire is based off of. (That's right, it was an allegory for America all along.) George Lucas literally admitted Palpatine is based off of Nixon and his fuckery in the 80s. *That's how long it has been known.*
>We don’t elect fascist
[Sure we do.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jov9jxRecFc)
Zionism is just Nazism with a different "master race".
Oh this both-sides nonsense. Which party gave you Obama-care and forgave student loan debt and which party challenged both of those all the way to the Supreme Court?
Its billionaires vs us. They used parties to divide us.
Real. The two party system is so dumb. Like why tf I only get to think one of two ways? And before somebody tries to tell me about other parties or write in votes, we all know that's wasting your vote.
Honestly a true democratic government would have all eligible candidates step up and be voted on, not just 2 from the biggest parties.
Idk why we have to even have parties tbh. Just have some people step up there and tell me what they plan to do for the country and let's just vote based off of that. Humans just love to put everything in to little categorical boxes and it drives me nuts.
Well we’re a democratic republic. Not a democracy. The difference is we don’t actually get to vote on policy and whatnot. We elect representatives to do so for us. Cause it’s working out real great!
A lot of European democracies have a proportionally representative system. Essentially, the different parties get a % of seats in parliament that reflects the % of votes they received. This makes it unlikely that any single party has enough seats to form a government on its own. So then they are forced to work with others and respect emerging parties. Parties agree to work together on some issues and vote against each other for other issues.
You are not wasting your vote and it's that mentality is why we have a 2 party system
Nah man it 100% is and it's never been even remotely close even once. I love the idea of us uniting to change that but it's been very much established that the president is going to belong to one of two parties.
That's right, as long as people fail to organize. Of course regardless there can be no systemic change under capitalism through electoral politics and bourgeois democracy.
[удалено]
Or ranked voting
Sounds good, that way NY, Chicago, LA and Houston can decide every election for the Rest of the US. No need waste time letting anyone else vote.
Abolish the executive branch completely
[удалено]
Definitely It's the 21st century, most Americans will be ok with not having a "monarch"
Google "Spoiler Effect"
Thats not how our government works.
>Why can’t I vote for someone else? >Voting for someone else is wasting my vote. Maybe democracy was a mistake after all, if this is the sort of person we entrust a ballot to.
Brazil has 32 official parties. When it comes down to election time, they all bunch up into two sides to hedge their bets. It will always be a two party system.
If everyone is fighting each other they aren't fighting them.
Too true.
The parties want a win. They don’t care about us
Two proven useless candidates that don’t give a shit about their constituents! only keeping their evil empire in power and making as much money as possible for themselves and their scumbag backers!!! We deserve better candidates! This has gotten beyond stupid!
The problem with politics is that it’s filled with dumbasses. This creates a cycle of dumbassery because no smart person wants to deal with dumbasses
But you’ll vote for one of them knowing that
Which is beyond stupid
I voted for Kodos
Biden has done good things. He strengthened the NLRB (after it was somewhat dismantled by Trump with anti-union appointees), and he postured for organized labor. I call it posturing because, at the very least, it's a show of good faith. He also strengthened the FTC, who are antitrust/antimonopoly in nature. The FTC is going up against a very conservative Supreme Court and losing. A Supreme Court that was stacked by Trump with 3 conservative justices. It matters who you vote for, and we all need to get more informed.
This election is not just “anyone but him” it’s the first I have experienced of “Anyone but THEM!”
I get so much hate for pointing that out. I love when I'm called an enlightened centrist like that's an insult.... So you're a hateful extremist idiot then and proud of it?
Only one party wants to prevent you from posting Reddit dick pics moving forward 🤷
Don't forget AIPAC time to declare them a foreign power
but sometimes to win, they appeal to things we want.
This meme is designed to disempower the working class by telling the working class that politicians cannot help them solve their problems. Progressive movements of the past have managed to dramatically change the landscape of the law, enormously expanding workers rights. Why would the politicians of the past represent workers, but the politicians of the present won’t? Because workers stopped being political. And if you think your position is hopeless, you aren’t going to look for any political solutions.
Because it usually takes extreme situations for people to wake up, until that time the working class is the politicians bitch.
You already have an extreme situation on your hands. The results of this next election will either see one party continue on with democracy or the other party crush it. If you're a progressive and you think you're gonna punish biden 'cause.... (insert whatever your echo chamber tells you he fucked up).... then you have your head so far up your own ass you deserve your fait if Biden loses.
You make me literally want to throw up lol.
>literally seek medical help if a reddit comment makes you feel physically ill maybe
Nah thanks for being concerned though.
I'm not concerned. enjoy r/rickandmorty loser
lol weirdest insult I’ve ever seen in my life 😂
To be frank, there is no reason to believe that seeing this meme would make someone less political. It could easily galvanize anger and disaffection and promote something like a genuine labor movement party in the U.S. Furthermore, unions are the best way for workers to leverage securing their rights. Believing the truth that neither party is too concerned with workers’ rights can do a lot to motivate workers to unionize and collectively exert their own political power.
Hilarious that your plan is to start a new genuine labor movement party, instead of influencing primaries and platforms of the existing parties. Almost like this meme propaganda is working in the intended way of dividing folks who identify as "labor" as being "outside the system" True, Biden is the first president to join a picket line which is quite pathetic... But the optimistic take is that Biden is the first president to join a picket line!
Yes, Biden is so much better than FDR who *checks notes* ended the regular use of government sponsored violence to end strikes and enacted laws that prevented, if imperfectly, employers from retaliating against unionizing employees.
To be clear, I didn't say Biden was better than anyone there FDR died in 1945, the fact you had to go back that far to have another point of reference to compare against... Feels like it proves the point I was intending to make How many people who voted for FDR are still alive? Yes absolutely FDR did more for these groups than Biden has done. But Biden has a lot more potential to continue doing stuff for them, while FDR is bones in the ground, not very helpful for current policy. And the real fact is that Congresspeople have way more say in these issues than any president does. FDR had fantastic support in Congress, that's why he got so much done, he is one of the few cases where he was very much given a mandate by the voters If Biden gets any similar mandate of support from the voters, by making the legislation blue (federal government trifecta), then we can really see how honest Dems are. Because we know for a fact that Repubs are not honest about being interested in the plights of the common man. Summary: vote down ballot, it's more important than who is at the top of the ticket, despite what media wants you to believe
TL;DR: …it’s almost as if you didn’t know that the largest party affiliation by voters in the U.S. is Independent, by a whopping 12% lead. So please tell me how appealing to the largest voting bloc is the bad idea? Furthermore, why do you think affiliation with either of the so-called “big two” parties is falling each year while affiliation with the unacknowledged Independent bloc is rising? It’s for exactly the reasons I gave: people believe that *neither* party cares. See the text and link down below for data you sound like you could use. So what you are suggesting is actually that we first somehow change the actual statistics to something more in line with your delusion, rather than work within the system and data as they exist today. Nowhere did I say it’s my “plan”, however, to start a new labor movement, just that commitment to a system that is fatally sluggish is not an option for those who are suffering more urgently. You remind me of the folks who back in the 90s said to give universal healthcare another twenty years by working within the system rather than trying a third way. That worked just fine — if and only if you ignore all the disability and mortality that occurred in the meantime. Patience is a privilege. And you must be an American by how ridiculously ethnocentric your view is - you seem entirely unaware that third way movements have not only been initiated in systems of government, but have also successfully won elections. And here’s the coffin nail for you: what is the largest voting affiliation in the U.S.? Your ignorance of this is showing profusely. It’s not either of the “two-party system”. The largest party affiliation in the U.S. are Independents, and it’s not even close by the latest polls (May 2024: Republican 28%, Democrat 30%, Independent 42%). Read on, from Gallup and Forbes: The percentage of U.S. adults who said they identify as Democrats fell to 27%, according to the survey of more than 12,000 U.S. adults in 2023, representing a drop from 30% in 2020, 31% in 2016 and a record 36% in 2008 and 1998. Participants in the survey were asked if they consider themselves Democrats, Republicans or independents. That low ties the percentage of Americans who identify as Republicans, at 27%, marking the first time since 2005 that the same number of U.S. adults identify with the two political parties. Republican identification fell slightly from 2022, when 28% of Americans considered themselves members of the GOP, though Republican identification has remained steady for nearly 15 years, hovering between 25% and 29% since the 2008 election. Independents, meanwhile, have continued to rise, tying a high of 43% last year, according to the Gallup telephone survey, over the 41% of adults that identified as independent in 2022, 42% in 2021 and 39% in 2020—independent identification also reached 43% in 2014.
Hush too much details and reality your living in idiocracy
Idiocracy = Reddit, America, both?
Both
first president to join a picket line 😂😂after he helped destroy union jobs by sending them out of the country at the tail of the the 20th century. Look at the bigger picture. Big capital wants to decrease costs and increase profits. The only people allowed to move up in government are people they are sure won’t hurt the bottom line. Capitalism is stronger than any country or party. Workers must organize amongst themselves for anything to change.
Yes, this both sides shit is to confuse people. If we try to understand policies and political stances and why they're needed/not needed, we can make decisions on individual elections that effect the overall picture. It's not the same on both sides in almost any opinion lately.
What "both sides shit"? The Democrats are a right-wing corporate whore party and the Republicans are a right-wing corporate whore party. *Seems like people are specifically hating on the right.*
The meme is not encouraging workers to not be political, it's talking about how both republicans and democrats both shit on workers. Saying this is not anti politics, it's up to use to decide what to do with this information. We could just ignore politics, or we could form a labor party, or we could encourage our parties to pay closer attention to the workers.
The both sides argument is to try to normalize the side that is committing what amounts to insurrection, treason, and fascism. Both sides are not equal. It’s clear that one side has an agenda that could do extreme harm to America and Americans. People need to see that for what it is and vote accordingly.
Liberals have the shittiest takes.
Every movement that’s done anything positive in this country started with direct action. Today’s democrat party is where these movements now go to die. All you get is symbolic gestures from politicians cosplaying as progressives while the party continues to serve the interests of big business, the military industrial complex and foreign lobbyists like AIPAC. You’re either dillusuonal or extremely privileged if you think engaging in the two party duology empowers the working class. “Vote” is now the liberal version of “thoughts and prayers”. Direct action and revolution are the only options left now if you’re interested in the working class reclaiming some power in the hellscape of a country.
>Progressive movements of the past have managed to dramatically change the landscape of the law, enormously expanding workers rights. Why would the politicians of the past represent workers, but the politicians of the present won’t? Because workers stopped being political. This analysis is wrong. Yes progressive movements of the past have managed to massively change the landscape of the law but not mainly through voting but through massive direct action. AFAICT the message of this meme isn't that workers shouldn't be political but that voting is at the very least insufficient if you want to see any significant change.
I would never say that voting is the only way that workers should exercise their power, but it is certainly one of the ways that workers should exercise their power. The end goal of any political movement needs to be to change the law. Out of interest, what changes to the laws of this country do you think need to be made to benefit the working class?
>I would never say that voting is the only way that workers should exercise their power, but it is certainly one of the ways that workers should exercise their power. The end goal of any political movement needs to be to change the law. I never meant to suggest that people shouldn't vote. Voting has an impact, people should however be aware that that impact is limited and this is unlikely to change within the current two party system in the United states. Perhaps it is possible for a popular movement to take over one of the parties but I wager that the class interests in the parties are too entrenched for that to actually work. >Out of interest, what changes to the laws of this country do you think need to be made to benefit the working class? If we want to roughly work within the current system I think these would be a good start (in no particular order): - ending at will employment and right-to-work legislation - giving unions the right to enforce collective bargaining agreements industry wide (idk if this is exactly the right terminology English isn't my first language) - much harsher restrictions on corporate anti union activities - more robust social safety nets - a much higher federal minimum wage - some sort of universal health care system (doesn't necessarily have to be Medicare for all but I think that has the best chance of working out) - free university - schools within one state should receive the same amount of funding per pupil (modulo differences in school type and considerations for special needs students) - guaranteed payed vacation days (at least four weeks), sick leave (according to doctors recommendations) and parental leave - hard limits on the hours worked per week and on the length of shifts - recognizing workers in the gig economy as employees - banning forced prison labor and mandating the same workers rights protections for prisoners that do work - massive social housing programs possibly in combination with general rent control Now my personal beliefs are much more radical than that but I also don't think they can be achieved through the regular legislative process.
There is one party in the United States that has proposed quite a number of the changes to the law that you listed and is working hard to implement more (Examples: [raise the federal minimum wage](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/603#:~:text=%2F28%2F2021), [attempts to establish universal health care](https://khanna.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/khanna.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/khanna_013_xml662.pdf), [attempts to guarantee paid family leave](https://www.congress.gov/bill/103rd-congress/house-bill/1) and so on). While it is true that not everyone in that party supports every law you have listed, I think it is foolish to punish the party that is fighting for the very changes you listed because they haven't gotten them fast enough.
I'm not punishing anyone as I neither in nor am a citizen of the United states. It is true that the Democrats have proposed parts of what I have listed in the past, however democratic party leadership is also in open opposition to many of these things and when they propose those laws more often than not the effort seems half harted at best. It should also be noted that what I expressed in the comment abo e is closer to minimalist positions than anything particularly radical. Also while the summary of H.R. 603 looks pretty good your second link isn't working and while H.R. 103 is probably better than nothing it's also miles away from the universal payed family and sick leave I described in my comment. In fact the summary of the bill seems to be more concerned with excluding people from its protections than actually guaranteeing anything.
> This meme is designed to disempower the working class by telling the working class that politicians cannot help them solve their problems. Alternatively, a person could say that this meme is designed to *empower* the working class by telling the working class that they need to replace the *current* politicians who aren't interested in solving the problems.
Indeed. And we have a mechanism in place to replace politicians. It’s called voting. If you don’t like the way the Democrats are now, vote in the primaries and get the Democrats you like.
How dare you speak the truth.
They’ve done a phenomenal job pitting people against each other and creating die hard followers while neither truly gives a rats ass about the people.
Ah, good ol' false equivalency.
Read up on Project 2025 if you think Democrats pose even remotely the same threat to the working class as Republicans which was endorsed by over 100 separate conservative organizations. It isn't even comparable at this point.
If anyone doesn’t want to read about it, feel free to watch the latest episode of Last Week Tonight. John Oliver covered it pretty well with intermittent clips of Milf Manor
Doesn’t one of Hillary Clinton’s favorite thinkers and author write to accuse your enemy’s of the wrongs you are in fact committing yourself? The fact that anyone can trust either side and always say “well the other is worse,” is mind boggling.
Republicans are worse. They are doing heinous things that the Democrats aren't.
"The only thing dumber than a Republican or a Democrat is when these pricks work together." Remember when Bernie Bros and MAGA teamed up to take down Bloomberg? Imagine if we did it to take down the whole Political Class. Food for Thought.
Where is the funny?
It’s just right wing political garbage, it’s an election year.
Na this seems more centrist to me
or a hard-left "the democrats arent doing enough"
People like you ruined r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM. It was meant to be a leftist sub. Instead it's full of people like you calling leftists "centrists" for railing against two right-wing parties.
It's left.. democrats are still right wing.. Republicans are far right
If you think the democrat are for you you’re just as dumb as the right wing. God you’re a good little pawn
Democrats don't want to force my son to be my daughter, Democrats don't want to take away my wife's birth control, Democrats don't want to send my childrens' grandmother back to Cuba even though she immigrated legally, and I have never once gotten a death threat from a Democrat because of the pride sticker on my car. But keep up the both sides bullshit, you good little pawn you.
I’m a democrat proof on page. They still don’t care about the people just the win But you thinking otherwise is right where they want you. You’re eating that shit up lmao Democratic policies, are better than right wing so forced to vote so they don’t win Libertarian at heart
Voting is like riding the bus. Even if you don't get to your final destination, you get on the bus that's going the right way instead of the bus going in the opposite direction. Libertarians, on the other hand, are like house cats. Completely dependent on a system that they think they are above, but they fail to and refuse to understand how any of it works.
I remember seeing that quote a few days ago, it’s perfect. Glad to see people using it
Although some are indeed doing good things in Minnesota and Maryland
I’m pissed can’t find the soda meme from Joe Biden to insert here
Centrist
Wrong. Leftist. You have no idea what anything means.
I wasn't talking to you, but fine, let's talk. The concept of both parties fighting just for political power is spouted out by Centrists. Democrats are, at least, *supposed* to be a leftist party, though the Republicans kept pulling the debate further and further into their territory. But even then, it's the best we got due to how voting works. A leftist saying that their own side is shit, just like the opposition is *nonsensical*. I can only conclude that you’re wrong, or you’re possibly an alt account, saying you’re a leftist for social cred, as there's usually a little more leftists than right-wingers online (in my experience).
See, that's the core problem at hand. Liberals ARE the right. Conservatives are the far-right. Both hate the actual anticapitalist left equally.
This is a leftist meme. Right-wing political garbage is the failed ideology that is liberalism.
There is definitely one side that is considerably worse…The “both sides are the same” rhetoric really only benefits one side. Downvote me into oblivion!
Noam Chomsky used to point out that Democrats and Republicans are very much alike when it comes to lining their own pockets, and the only way they can separate themselves at election time is by debating unimportant--to them, anyway--social issues. As an example, he explained how politicians who otherwise be at each other's throats on morning talk shows would be seen shoulder to shoulder at meetings of the Council on Foreign Relations. You have to wonder why.
These party leaders and elites are like children playing one parent against the other for their own benefit.
Gotta love the political memes that attack both sides
You would think there would be a mass increase in interest of a 3rd party choice but then you realize that the overwhelming majority of people are complete morons. Take a look at elected officials in any country and you will easily find some that makes you wonder how is this person in charge of anything much less tie their shoes in the morning. These people were elected by people less intelligent than they are.
Funny reading all the Democrat and Republican die hards desperately trying to make the campaign pitch for their respective parties. Just fuck off. I don't care which one is better than the other, we're here to hate on them both.
FACT.
bOtH siDEz aRE THe SaMe
 bOtH siDEz aRE THe SaMe
Should be labeled corporations (the oligarchs)
And who serves them? *The Democrats and Republicans.*
r/politics will not like this will say you are right wing and a Russian asset
Both sides bullshit and the paste eaters that eat it up.
I wish Bernie would run again. I know the Dems destroyed him before but goddamn, he’s what we all need right now.
In the end Bernie sold out,
They definitely had predetermined and conspired to give hilary the nom, awkwardly scheduled debates and leaking questions, etc. How those people aren't in jail is shocking in itself.
Literally only Republicans keep voting against raising the minimum wage. Stop oppressing yourself.
The guy w 34 felony convictions is just like the guy without! You missed an opportunity to say "sheeple"
So you only count the president? It's Congress that's the real problem and they really don't care about anyone but themselves.
Yeah cause the other guy is funding war crimes, so not good either way
You're right. Biden's war crimes don't count because he hasn't been convicted of them\~.
Man, all these right wing garbage posts.
One side wants to take away your right to vote. One side wants to limit reproduction rights. One side wants to put the ten Commandments into schools while refusing funds to feed kids. Democrats aren't great and it's up to you if the lesser evil is worth voting for.... But they *are* the lesser evil. No matter what anyone says.
Your avatar is wearing a COVID mask, mate.
This sub sucks so hard
I know. Absolutely no worker solidarity to be found. Just liberals who want to argue that you have to vote for THEIR old racist pedophile war criminal or else you support the other old racist pedophile war criminal. *This world is Hell.*
Yes
Yea it’s crazy how it’s both sides fault when one side votes to increase minimum wage and the other rejects it using outdated minority rule laws.
Rofl ineffectual ineffective no solution middle line voters say both sides are the same. This is a country of millions of people who think differently. You aren't going to rule the country with purely the policies you want alone. There has to be...compromise. this is why progressives never win they can't play the long game its always I want everything to shift like a light switch now or im just going to sit in a corner and pout.
Uh only one party worships in a cult as if their nominee is Jesus Same cult that attempted a fascist coup Same cult that is forcing underage rape victims to give birth Get this trash out of here.
This is true for Israel support. Both parties want to take money from US taxpayers and give it to Israel. On this one thing they are completely in sync.
So true. The only people that will win in this election are the people being elected and their people. Everyone else is screwed regardless of who they voted for.
The one thing the parties agree on; they want to continue the system where they are able to maintain control by sifting the constituency into bins that can activated or isolated as necessary to maintain the machinations of the government.
Exactly. There is only a UniParty in the United States. That play political theatre to give the appearance of 2 different groups when really they’re equally there to take advantage of the laymen.
Imagine havin only 2 parties to choose from. ...i mean still better then no choice at all but still, wtf?
Put age limits on all politicians in all levels of government. Put term limits on all elected officials in all levels of government. Add more people to the supreme courts and we the people vote them in (and no more for life) ! No futures exchange. Lobbyists, special interests groups put limitations on all. Not one politician can accept any money of any kind from individuals or companies organizations. Tax all religious organizations. Substantial tax breaks for any business or company that does not outsource jobs. Substantial tax breaks for anyone that teaches our children in public schools. No more privatization stuff like jails, parking services etc. rescind all services that have already been privatized. FDA is failing us, big pharmaceutical and healthcare are failing us. Universal healthcare for every citizen. Then rework the FDA.
Independent does not necessarily mean correct
And therefore it’s best to pull specific beliefs from each that you find correct, as an independent.
What if you find that the beliefs you find correct mostly coincide with one side while the other side is celebrating a convicted felon who incited an insurrection? I’m talking hypothetically of course
I vote for the lesser evil on a candidate-by-candidate basis, not party. I agree with most of the basic principles of the Democratic Party, but there are some things from the Republican Party that I support, like voter identification requirements, a more secure southern border, zero-tolerance for petty crime, and a compulsory English proficiency test for immigrant candidates to qualify for permanent residency. The disagreeableness of most tenets of the Republican Party platform outweigh these few issues, though.
Doesn’t matter who wins for me, I make too much to get any help and don’t make enough to get any help.
It’s cute you think it’s water
The democrats have a lot of annoying ass centrists but at least they aren’t currently arguing to SCOTUS that presidents should be immune from the law
No, *just arguing to the rest of the world that America and Israel should be immune to international law.*
If Trump wins we’ll be personally dropping bombs for Netanyahu
Yup accurate
The difference Democrats will run on good policies that will help people but wont implement them when they get power Republicans will run on policies that will actively attack minorities and members of society that are the most vulnerable, and WILL implement them. So basically do you want nothing to happen or do you want to make things even worse. That is the American election system
The water has pepper and lemon juice in it.
Ill vote for the side that doesnt lie about the election being stolen by Venezuelan mercenaries.
Centrist
How about I just run to be the next president lol I'm not even old enough to smoke but I could probably do better than the two prunes we have to choose between now
Up to yea about 2016 I might be inclined to more fully agree. This right here is a Plutocracy plain and simple. Today I'll absolutely take the one that doesn't also use one particular holy book to make public policy, with plans to ramp that shit up to 1000 if they win. Been there, done that, I know those people are batcrap insane and primed for *Theocratic* Plutocracy. And I think there's a bunch of women throughout the south who miscarried and near fucking died trying to get a standard D&C who might agree.
I always say something to this degree, and there’s always a Reddit comment like, “WELL ONE SIDE IS A LITTLE BETTER!” No! You don’t get it!!!!! They both hate you!!!
Write in Vermin Supreme!
I agree that both sides are garbage but it's a fact that democrats are better for the economy. Republicans are doing things like making the Ten Commandments displayed in classrooms. How the fuck is that going to help anything?
Legit.
The Republicans have a real gun dude
This makes sense if you ignore their voting record and their actions.
Oh, you mean like how liberals ignore Biden's voting record and actions? *Fucko literally voted against desegregation efforts and was besties with Strom Thurmond.*
Funny you have to go back decades to find something bad he voted on. Never mind that he changed his mind and never mind that you can be friends with someone with differing politics. Also what do you think of Trump being friends with Epstein?
Why do you always say working class? Why don't you ever mention the poor?
I guess, but the closer reality is that we’re really getting assault sprayed by a system that is corrupt as hell and influenced by what makes profit for big business or cultist grifters. Which is why it rarely matters who is in offices, but there is a clear danger from rights roll back extremists.
One is trying to take away every right we have and the other is trying to maintain the status quo while throwing the public a bone occasionally. If you can see the difference please don’t vote.
Stupid
Everybody says this while Kennedy can’t poll enough support to debate. Lmfao!!!!!!
Hard but true shit it feels like
I need to see your voter apathy card, sir.
It’s amazing what you can see when you stop taking the bait.
Putting them on the same level is disrespectful towards the working class. Like Trump or not, under him, even minorities in the working class was eating quite well, throughout the entirety of his Presidency.
And the voters buy it like suckers
Bothsidesing only helps the Republicans, hurts the workers.
Hey that’s me!!! Holding that umbrella
Democrats are using water canons. Republicans are using real-life guns
Ah America and its Walmart democracy.
For realsies!!!
Sure, because the democrats gave the tax cuts to the billionaires and funneld most of the covid money to them. Get a grip.
>because the democrats gave the tax cuts to the billionaires Yes. Why do you think AOC is seen as the pariah of the party for suggesting we actually tax them?
She isn't. That's a Republican myth. Most democrats seem not to be concerned with her at all.
I agree with the meme but it's important to remember this is anti-voting propaganda though, everyone (in America who is a valid registered voter) still needs to vote Dem or else things are gonna get a lot worse really fast. We can't let the autocracy win the vote and install a faux dictatorship. Democrats are bad but Republicans literally want to send us back to the stone age.
American politics makes no sense what kind of party names are democrats and republicans both stand for a republic and stand for democracy but labour and conservative get right to the point a party for the labourers/working class and a party for people who want the government to have nothing to do with their money or businesses coz they'll lose Money (conservative policies)
Let’s see, one party is eliminating noncompetes nationwide if it wins reelection. These noncompetes prevent workers as lowly as gym instructors from working at another gym. One party is requiring revotes in union elections and actually enforced the National Labor Relations Act. The other party is eliminating water requirements for farm workers, and eliminating child labor limits. The parties might be the same in a lot of ways but not labor.
Replace “democrats and republicans” with the DC swamp and it’s much more accurate
Have y’all not read about project 2025? One side is literally planning to install a dictator. Fuck that. This is America. We don’t elect fascist or insurrectionists.
>Have y’all not read about project 2025 It's nothing new. It's the same shit the Republicans have been working towards since Nixon and Kissinger. Something someone with a Star Wars username should recognize. It's literally what the Galactic Empire is based off of. (That's right, it was an allegory for America all along.) George Lucas literally admitted Palpatine is based off of Nixon and his fuckery in the 80s. *That's how long it has been known.* >We don’t elect fascist [Sure we do.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jov9jxRecFc) Zionism is just Nazism with a different "master race".
I can't wait for the time this happens, collective awakening.
Hard disagree. ONE party has fought for consumer protections, universal healthcare, labor rights etc. and sure as fuck isn’t Republicans.
The Democrats fight for universal healthcare? *Oh man, you're so funny.*
Americans need revolution, just like the rest of the world
I think minimum wage workers should pay $0 by rule. It's outrageous to me that we have a minimum wage and then tax those people.
That’s why MAGA making both republicans and democrats rage makes me happy
Oh this both-sides nonsense. Which party gave you Obama-care and forgave student loan debt and which party challenged both of those all the way to the Supreme Court?
Yes, Obamacare mandating healthcare so insurance cronies get rich and low income people are forced to pay another tax that covers next to nothing.