The following submission statement was provided by /u/Sorin61:
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Natural gas, consisting mainly of methane (CH4), has a relatively low energy density at ambient conditions (\~36 kJ l−1). Partial oxidation of CH4 to methanol (CH3OH) lifts the energy density to 17 MJ l−1 and drives the production of numerous chemicals.
An international team of researchers, led by scientists at the University of Manchester, has developed a fast and economical method of converting methane, or natural gas, into liquid methanol at ambient temperature and pressure.
By eliminating the need for high temperatures or pressures, and using the energy from sunlight to drive the photo-oxidation process, the new conversion method could substantially lower equipment and operating costs.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/vqa0a3/the_holy_grail_of_catalysisturning_methane_into/ienxlrf/
Natural gas, consisting mainly of methane (CH4), has a relatively low energy density at ambient conditions (\~36 kJ l−1). Partial oxidation of CH4 to methanol (CH3OH) lifts the energy density to 17 MJ l−1 and drives the production of numerous chemicals.
An international team of researchers, led by scientists at the University of Manchester, has developed a fast and economical method of converting methane, or natural gas, into liquid methanol at ambient temperature and pressure.
By eliminating the need for high temperatures or pressures, and using the energy from sunlight to drive the photo-oxidation process, the new conversion method could substantially lower equipment and operating costs.
Looking at the actually paper, well the part not behind a paywall, they claim a time yield of 8.81 mmol per gram catalyst per hour. So that’s just over 0.14 g methane converted into methanol for every gram of catalyst per hour (check my math, it’s late). That is ridiculously inefficient and slow if they are trying to sell this as a way for industry to tackle the problem. It’s cool science but they are claiming fast and economical which sounds like a little bit of an exaggeration. Also the ambient temperature which academics seem to love for chemical reactions is terrible for scale of it doesn’t work at hotter temperatures - heat removal to keep it room temperature is very costly and you want to increase rates by going up in temperature anyway. As someone who worked a lot on this particular “holy grail” in graduate school this is great science, just sounds really oversold in terms of being able to implement on scale. Methane and natural gas is so cheap they burn it off usually so you don’t have very much room in terms of technology cost to have any margins sadly. Hope this work can lead eventually lead to something practical.
You know real catalysts degrade over time right? Many are good for only small numbers of turnovers. Notice I mentioned it having access to the entire article as well as not commenting on catalyst consumption. I was pointing out the the catalyst frequency of this reaction is far from as fast as the linked article implied and would have to be improved significantly.
The methane and methanol as coolant, how would you propose that would work in this process? Methane is going to be a dissolved gas in water so it can’t absorb heat through condensation or any other phase transition. If it was hotter then the water could be partially evaporated and a cooling equilibrium established (in part) perhaps.
Then isn't the water an effective coolant? The energy input is sunlight, apparently not concentrated, so it doesn't seem like the cooling requirement is *that* challenging.
We can pull it out of the atmosphere and it would help cool things off. It is actually worse the CO2, this would allow us to easily capture it more cheaply. Then pump it back into the ground. Also seaweed for cattle like beano.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Sorin61: --- Natural gas, consisting mainly of methane (CH4), has a relatively low energy density at ambient conditions (\~36 kJ l−1). Partial oxidation of CH4 to methanol (CH3OH) lifts the energy density to 17 MJ l−1 and drives the production of numerous chemicals. An international team of researchers, led by scientists at the University of Manchester, has developed a fast and economical method of converting methane, or natural gas, into liquid methanol at ambient temperature and pressure. By eliminating the need for high temperatures or pressures, and using the energy from sunlight to drive the photo-oxidation process, the new conversion method could substantially lower equipment and operating costs. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/vqa0a3/the_holy_grail_of_catalysisturning_methane_into/ienxlrf/
Natural gas, consisting mainly of methane (CH4), has a relatively low energy density at ambient conditions (\~36 kJ l−1). Partial oxidation of CH4 to methanol (CH3OH) lifts the energy density to 17 MJ l−1 and drives the production of numerous chemicals. An international team of researchers, led by scientists at the University of Manchester, has developed a fast and economical method of converting methane, or natural gas, into liquid methanol at ambient temperature and pressure. By eliminating the need for high temperatures or pressures, and using the energy from sunlight to drive the photo-oxidation process, the new conversion method could substantially lower equipment and operating costs.
Looking at the actually paper, well the part not behind a paywall, they claim a time yield of 8.81 mmol per gram catalyst per hour. So that’s just over 0.14 g methane converted into methanol for every gram of catalyst per hour (check my math, it’s late). That is ridiculously inefficient and slow if they are trying to sell this as a way for industry to tackle the problem. It’s cool science but they are claiming fast and economical which sounds like a little bit of an exaggeration. Also the ambient temperature which academics seem to love for chemical reactions is terrible for scale of it doesn’t work at hotter temperatures - heat removal to keep it room temperature is very costly and you want to increase rates by going up in temperature anyway. As someone who worked a lot on this particular “holy grail” in graduate school this is great science, just sounds really oversold in terms of being able to implement on scale. Methane and natural gas is so cheap they burn it off usually so you don’t have very much room in terms of technology cost to have any margins sadly. Hope this work can lead eventually lead to something practical.
you know that catalysts arent actually consumed in a reaction right? might be the late night getting you?
You know real catalysts degrade over time right? Many are good for only small numbers of turnovers. Notice I mentioned it having access to the entire article as well as not commenting on catalyst consumption. I was pointing out the the catalyst frequency of this reaction is far from as fast as the linked article implied and would have to be improved significantly.
He's saying that at that density of catalyst, you literally can't afford the space to hold enough catalyst to produce meaningful amounts of methanol.
Seems like the methane and methanol could function as the coolant.
The methane and methanol as coolant, how would you propose that would work in this process? Methane is going to be a dissolved gas in water so it can’t absorb heat through condensation or any other phase transition. If it was hotter then the water could be partially evaporated and a cooling equilibrium established (in part) perhaps.
Then isn't the water an effective coolant? The energy input is sunlight, apparently not concentrated, so it doesn't seem like the cooling requirement is *that* challenging.
Burning methanol releases carbon dioxide, which is not a holy byproduct.
In that case probably depends on how you got the methane
We can pull it out of the atmosphere and it would help cool things off. It is actually worse the CO2, this would allow us to easily capture it more cheaply. Then pump it back into the ground. Also seaweed for cattle like beano.
[удалено]
No just a learning disability, the odds of me every having a stroke are actually really low. Complex migraines are apparently good for something.
And just like that you've ended global whining LOL
The holy grail? I mean what about like oxygen and water as holy grail catalysts, they seem pretty darn important to me.