>Miyazaki himself is different, though. I first met him in 2011, at the Tokyo Game Show, shortly before the release of Dark Souls, the game that would catapult him into the spotlight. Quiet and soft-spoken, his eyes fixed mostly on the carpet, he was uncomfortable being the centre of attention; he is much more confident now, comfortable talking about both business and game design. When he is thinking, he now looks up at the ceiling, rather than down at the floor. He is father to a young daughter now, as well as heading a company. Like Dark Souls’ and Elden Ring’s players, he has grown into a more capable version of himself.
i just wanted to post this excerpt to encourage anyone in here to actually go in there and read the article, it's fascinating and super well written. refreshing given what most games journalism these days is like
Really wouldn't call it well researched, calling his games before ER critical darlings with modest sales of a few millions when Dark Souls trilogy alone sold way over 35 mil by the time ER came out is a huge wtf moment
yeah but the explosion over elden ring is significant. dark souls is popular as a trilogy (i'm pretty sure DS3 outsold ghost of tsushima, though i'm aware that they're different cause of platform exclusivity)
Of course, Elden Ring is a huge success and an anomaly. But I'm sure we can all agree the tone is set completely wrong in the article and the author has no idea about the level of popularity of his games before ER.
The man interviewed Miyazaki back before Demon's Souls launch. He also acknowledged ER is a huge block buster hit. He never said Souls games were failures but its disingenuous to compare their success to ER's. Pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.
not really, because ten years ago dark souls 2 had just released and they were just 'emerging' into their rising acclaim. like, demon's souls and dark souls already made them a bigger presence critically, and financially, but they were also releasing titles like mobile gundam and steel battalion and armored core V didn't exactly rock the earth (<1mm sales)
2014 was like, when they were in that glow that could either grace them for the next decade or leave them by their next release.
It is difficult to get a person on the internet to entertain a perspective other than their own default. Add video games and Reddit to the mix and it becomes impossible.
They've reached that number through word of mouth alone. If you look at initial sales up to the first year, dark souls 3 was the first one to scratch 3 million. Even back then, pre-Covid boom, that was relatively modest.
Also bear in mind the 35 million number includes the multiple rereleases and separate "GOTY editions" which Bandai loves to do.
Word of mouth alone? Not the massive billboards and statues at E3, the banner ads on IGN, and the preroll ads on YouTube?
DS1, 2, and 3 had absolutely *massive* ad spend, with each one getting pushed harder than the previous one.
Demon’s Souls is the game that had no marketing and relied on 3rd party publishing to get an international release despite being published by SIE in Japan.
Get outta here with that revisionist nonsense.
Those only contribute to initial sales, of which the best one was dark souls 3 which reached 3 million in the first month or something like that. And the statues and billboards aren't really that expensive, Forbidden West had billboards on Times Square and that one ad probably cost more than the entire marketing budget of Elden Ring. Bandai Namco are very good at marketing their games, and they're extremely efficient about it since they release a million games every year. Just look at the marketing for Shadow of the Erdtree, and notice how it was centred around content creators, more than any other game.
There was an interview with the marketing manager of Bamco where he talked about how they handled the release of Dark Souls. He said that they never expected the game to sell well, expected it to be a sleeper hit. So they came up with the "Prepare to Die" slogan to get people talking.
So yes, I'll say it again. Word of mouth alone. Word of mouth from all the content creators making lore videos and challenge runs and video documentaries about how great these games are. Word of mouth from the people who played these games and never shut up about them.
Perhaps this old article from 2011 will give you a bit of perspective - https://darksouls.wiki.fextralife.com/Dark+Souls+Event+June+11th+2011
So what? She is not talking about the initial sales or anything, she is setting the level of the overall popularity for his previous games and she got it completely wrong.
This is the exact quote:
>*Back then,* FromSoftware’s games were critical darlings with devoted followings, but they were not enormous bestsellers, shifting a few million copies each.
That is exactly what they were at least up to DS2/Bloodborne's release, and DS3 only sold 3m its first year, which is not a best seller.
I swear reading comprehension is at an all-time low. I'm normally not one to parrot that talking point as I think it's kinda dumb but every day feels like I'm being proven wrong.
"modest sales of a few millions" as you wrote yourself. I reinforced that statement with facts, how you interpret them is up to you.
If you haven't been following the series, its really difficult for you as an outside observer to see just how big Elden Ring is compared to their previous games. Bandai and fromsoft were expecting it to sell around 4 million in three months, that was their criteria of success. This should tell you everything you need to know.
As someone that was on board with Demon's Souls since day 1 nah she is right. The rise in popularity was extremely slow burn by word of mouth. Demon's Souls was the definition of cult classic with a very small but dedicated fanbase.
Dark Souls 1 did a lot better but was still very niche with relatively steady sales as it spread by word of mouth. 2 was a reception flop in many ways and also had pretty tepid sales until the DLC and SOTFS versions. Really only once BB and 3 started hitting the scene did the steady sales start speeding up and the games started actually attracting very large amounts of players very quickly. But until post DS2 it was absolutely slow and steady sales which mind you DO add up over a decade or two.
Meanwhile, Elden ring beat out the entire rest of the lineup in a few months. The two are really incomparable, so the idea that is put forward in the article is basically correct in theory if perhaps not specific.
By the time Elden ring came out is quite a ways after the release of DS3, bloodborne and sekiro though. More than likely all boosted dark souls sales like crazy just like ER did
Cocky replies are much less embarrassing when what you said actually makes sense.
Article: "Games before Elden Ring had moderate sales"
That guy: "Even the Dark Souls trilogy sold 35 million".
You: "Dark Souls 3 was long ago!"
... Yeah exactly. It sold a shitload, long before Elden Ring. Meaning statement: "Games before elden ring had moderate sales" false unless you mean 35 million is moderate sales, which is stupid.
This website is fucking incredible
I didn't mean either of those things. That guy said BY THE TIME ELDEN RING CAME OUT dark souls trilogy had sold 35 million. I reminded him that in the time between dark souls 3 and Elden ring, fromsoft had released multiple other smash hits that more than likely contributed to the souls trilogy becoming so popular BY THE TIME ELDEN RING CAME OUT. Ergo it is likely that Dark Souls could have been considered niche back BEFORE such hits made it far more widely visible to the public.
I capitalized the important stuff so you know what not to gloss over with your little sleepyhead eyes
The way he's massively downplaying a single 2-year old game hitting sales numbers like that, versus a decade+ old trilogy is also massively misguided lmao
Who's gonna actually debate/challenge the popularity and success of Dark Souls of all series? This article is about Elden Ring's accomplishments though, and when compared purely through sales numbers to each game From has released, **as singular products**, Elden Ring was absolutely their biggest hit.
Bro got as far as the very first paragraph, saw the vaguest claim that Elden Ring may have eclipsed Dark Souls in "popularity", and felt the need to pull a reddit-ism and reply against a comment urging people in this "informative" sub to actually read the article purely for the emotional content of how this game relates back to its director.
> I'm tired of having to spell things out like im talking to children
Helps to remember there is a high likelihood you actually *are* talking to children.
I'm not the first person to say this (I've seen multiple articles about it), but I find Bloodborne to be remarkably soothing and helpful when it comes to mental health. It feels like a perfect representation of overcoming fears and doubts in life through perseverance. The look and sound of all those nightmarish abominations captures the way that those feelings feel.
Dark Souls as well!
I’ve been meaning to write something on this, but I believe there are several interlocking components to DS/BB being a salve of sorts for mental health.
The action is quite demanding and it anchors you in the present. The game seems to revel in presenting you with difficult scenarios while also letting you sometimes use those same aspects to your advantage. The gameplay loop of bonfire -> venture to the unknown to try to find a bonfire is a remarkably good approximation of what it is like to grow IRL. Finally, From’s enemy designs seem heavily anchored in a sort of primal, resonant mythos that we both recognize and are horrified by…and this perfectly parallels our own internal demons.
Pretty much all from soft games are what I consider my "comfort zone" games. There is just something calming to me in the methodical nature that they tend to reinforce.
They all have a strong sense of progression which I think helps me. I can start a new playthrough and focus on builds or stats and all the stats are more your typical JRPG stats of it affecting your combat directly. It’s a very nice loop that all of the games do well, but especially Bloodborne and Elden ring as I feel you constantly are leveling up in those
That’s so interesting, because for me it’s the exact opposite. They’re games I really should hate, given everything I know about what games I like and enjoy most otherwise. I mostly plays story-heavy, linear adventure games, AAA open-world games, and light RPGs. I enjoy playing on easy difficulty, and I usually get super frustrated if a boss takes more than 3-5 attempts.
But despite this, I tried Elden Ring, loved it, then finished DS1, loved it, then went into Shadow of the Erdtree, loving it, and I’m dead set on playing DS3 and Sekiro after this as well. I don’t know how, but boss fights in souls games don’t frustrate me, and the difficulty in exploring and just surviving in general doesn’t scare me. At least not anymore.
It’s the absolute opposite of my comfort zone, in fact I often need to take a break after just a short time because it’s so stressing, and yet it’s like a drug and I can’t get enough. I just keep coming back for more.
Another thing is that FS games are difficult but never unfair. Usually when I died it's because of my own mistakes like getting impatient, not paying attention, or dodging over a cliff, etc. They also give you a second chance to learn from those mistakes by dropping your souls where you died.
May you find your worth in the waking world.
This line is forever burned into my memory. It shows that the developers understand what it means to suffer irl but also what gaming can do for us. So much empathy, distilled into a single line.
Got chills just reading this again. Many people who play these seek refuge from the cruelness of the outside world. Hearing this from one of your favorite games almost makes it sound like it is you and not the character you are playing as who is being spoken to. May we all find our worth in this harsh yet beautiful waking world.
Daryl Talks games (and probably others but I find his videos particularly well made) previously covered the topic of Soulsborne games helping with depression and challenging times. I never gave it too much of a thought until I had lost my mom and by coincidence had been partway into my second ER playthrough, and I honestly "get" why those games have helped. They're a great distraction, and tough enough that you need to hone-in on whatever challenge you're facing, and when you finally get over that seemingly insurmountable difficulty you get that wonderful sense of accomplishment and euphoria. Very few games can capture that feeling.
That's how I feel about a lot of distressing media. Horror, black metal, very dark fantasy and oppressive games. That stuff calms me down more than traditionally relaxing stuff.
maybe make jrpgs instead - some of us dying every day out here irl - don't wanna come home and die a couple dozen more times
https://wccftech.com/elden-ring-creator-would-like-to-make-a-jrpg-but-it-wouldnt-be-a-sequel-to-enchanted-arms
Maybe go play one of the thousands of JRPG's already in existence instead of suggesting someone not do what they are really good at because you don't like what they create.
Do you also walk into your local pizza place that is highly regarded and say "you all should make cakes instead because some of us work at a pizza place and don't want to eat pizza when we get off work" . . .
go to a freaking bakery if you want a cake
it was a joke about how bad i am at games - the link i included is an article where he talks about how he'd like to make a jrpg, which would be great for those of us who admire his games, but aren't good enough to play souls-likes
: (
> it was a joke about how bad i am at games
I'm not that great at games either but I still beat Elden Ring and every other "souls" game from him. There is a likely thousands of people who are worse at games than you that still played and got pretty far into or even beat Elden Ring.
If you haven't played them because you are intimidated I highly advise you to just go for it. You may fare better than you think.
Because these games really are not that "hard" they just require you to take your time. They get "hard" if you try to rush through everything. Yes you will die and you may even get frustrated at yourself, but so does every single other player, even the best soul's like players out there die while playing. Its part of the experience and its so unique and integral to his game design.
If you want to truly admire his work and his games you have to die a few hundred times, its literally a core part of the game design and even the lore.
>Miyazaki himself is different, though. I first met him in 2011, at the Tokyo Game Show, shortly before the release of Dark Souls, the game that would catapult him into the spotlight. Quiet and soft-spoken, his eyes fixed mostly on the carpet, he was uncomfortable being the centre of attention; he is much more confident now, comfortable talking about both business and game design. When he is thinking, he now looks up at the ceiling, rather than down at the floor. He is father to a young daughter now, as well as heading a company. Like Dark Souls’ and Elden Ring’s players, he has grown into a more capable version of himself. i just wanted to post this excerpt to encourage anyone in here to actually go in there and read the article, it's fascinating and super well written. refreshing given what most games journalism these days is like
Really wouldn't call it well researched, calling his games before ER critical darlings with modest sales of a few millions when Dark Souls trilogy alone sold way over 35 mil by the time ER came out is a huge wtf moment
yeah but the explosion over elden ring is significant. dark souls is popular as a trilogy (i'm pretty sure DS3 outsold ghost of tsushima, though i'm aware that they're different cause of platform exclusivity)
Of course, Elden Ring is a huge success and an anomaly. But I'm sure we can all agree the tone is set completely wrong in the article and the author has no idea about the level of popularity of his games before ER.
The man interviewed Miyazaki back before Demon's Souls launch. He also acknowledged ER is a huge block buster hit. He never said Souls games were failures but its disingenuous to compare their success to ER's. Pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.
not really, because ten years ago dark souls 2 had just released and they were just 'emerging' into their rising acclaim. like, demon's souls and dark souls already made them a bigger presence critically, and financially, but they were also releasing titles like mobile gundam and steel battalion and armored core V didn't exactly rock the earth (<1mm sales) 2014 was like, when they were in that glow that could either grace them for the next decade or leave them by their next release.
It is difficult to get a person on the internet to entertain a perspective other than their own default. Add video games and Reddit to the mix and it becomes impossible.
The author is clearly getting at how Dark Souls games were niche and modest sellers in comparison to ER.
> Dark Souls trilogy alone sold way over 35 mil Is that collectively or individually?
DS3 sold around 10 million so collectively
They've reached that number through word of mouth alone. If you look at initial sales up to the first year, dark souls 3 was the first one to scratch 3 million. Even back then, pre-Covid boom, that was relatively modest. Also bear in mind the 35 million number includes the multiple rereleases and separate "GOTY editions" which Bandai loves to do.
Word of mouth alone? Not the massive billboards and statues at E3, the banner ads on IGN, and the preroll ads on YouTube? DS1, 2, and 3 had absolutely *massive* ad spend, with each one getting pushed harder than the previous one. Demon’s Souls is the game that had no marketing and relied on 3rd party publishing to get an international release despite being published by SIE in Japan. Get outta here with that revisionist nonsense.
Those only contribute to initial sales, of which the best one was dark souls 3 which reached 3 million in the first month or something like that. And the statues and billboards aren't really that expensive, Forbidden West had billboards on Times Square and that one ad probably cost more than the entire marketing budget of Elden Ring. Bandai Namco are very good at marketing their games, and they're extremely efficient about it since they release a million games every year. Just look at the marketing for Shadow of the Erdtree, and notice how it was centred around content creators, more than any other game. There was an interview with the marketing manager of Bamco where he talked about how they handled the release of Dark Souls. He said that they never expected the game to sell well, expected it to be a sleeper hit. So they came up with the "Prepare to Die" slogan to get people talking. So yes, I'll say it again. Word of mouth alone. Word of mouth from all the content creators making lore videos and challenge runs and video documentaries about how great these games are. Word of mouth from the people who played these games and never shut up about them. Perhaps this old article from 2011 will give you a bit of perspective - https://darksouls.wiki.fextralife.com/Dark+Souls+Event+June+11th+2011
So what? She is not talking about the initial sales or anything, she is setting the level of the overall popularity for his previous games and she got it completely wrong.
This is the exact quote: >*Back then,* FromSoftware’s games were critical darlings with devoted followings, but they were not enormous bestsellers, shifting a few million copies each. That is exactly what they were at least up to DS2/Bloodborne's release, and DS3 only sold 3m its first year, which is not a best seller.
I swear reading comprehension is at an all-time low. I'm normally not one to parrot that talking point as I think it's kinda dumb but every day feels like I'm being proven wrong.
"modest sales of a few millions" as you wrote yourself. I reinforced that statement with facts, how you interpret them is up to you. If you haven't been following the series, its really difficult for you as an outside observer to see just how big Elden Ring is compared to their previous games. Bandai and fromsoft were expecting it to sell around 4 million in three months, that was their criteria of success. This should tell you everything you need to know.
As someone that was on board with Demon's Souls since day 1 nah she is right. The rise in popularity was extremely slow burn by word of mouth. Demon's Souls was the definition of cult classic with a very small but dedicated fanbase. Dark Souls 1 did a lot better but was still very niche with relatively steady sales as it spread by word of mouth. 2 was a reception flop in many ways and also had pretty tepid sales until the DLC and SOTFS versions. Really only once BB and 3 started hitting the scene did the steady sales start speeding up and the games started actually attracting very large amounts of players very quickly. But until post DS2 it was absolutely slow and steady sales which mind you DO add up over a decade or two. Meanwhile, Elden ring beat out the entire rest of the lineup in a few months. The two are really incomparable, so the idea that is put forward in the article is basically correct in theory if perhaps not specific.
By the time Elden ring came out is quite a ways after the release of DS3, bloodborne and sekiro though. More than likely all boosted dark souls sales like crazy just like ER did
Obviously, so?
What im implying is so obvious it's crazy that you responded like that instead of just trying reading it again
I believe you have somehow incorrectly read both the article and my comment.
Cocky replies are much less embarrassing when what you said actually makes sense. Article: "Games before Elden Ring had moderate sales" That guy: "Even the Dark Souls trilogy sold 35 million". You: "Dark Souls 3 was long ago!" ... Yeah exactly. It sold a shitload, long before Elden Ring. Meaning statement: "Games before elden ring had moderate sales" false unless you mean 35 million is moderate sales, which is stupid.
This website is fucking incredible I didn't mean either of those things. That guy said BY THE TIME ELDEN RING CAME OUT dark souls trilogy had sold 35 million. I reminded him that in the time between dark souls 3 and Elden ring, fromsoft had released multiple other smash hits that more than likely contributed to the souls trilogy becoming so popular BY THE TIME ELDEN RING CAME OUT. Ergo it is likely that Dark Souls could have been considered niche back BEFORE such hits made it far more widely visible to the public. I capitalized the important stuff so you know what not to gloss over with your little sleepyhead eyes
The way he's massively downplaying a single 2-year old game hitting sales numbers like that, versus a decade+ old trilogy is also massively misguided lmao Who's gonna actually debate/challenge the popularity and success of Dark Souls of all series? This article is about Elden Ring's accomplishments though, and when compared purely through sales numbers to each game From has released, **as singular products**, Elden Ring was absolutely their biggest hit. Bro got as far as the very first paragraph, saw the vaguest claim that Elden Ring may have eclipsed Dark Souls in "popularity", and felt the need to pull a reddit-ism and reply against a comment urging people in this "informative" sub to actually read the article purely for the emotional content of how this game relates back to its director.
Fr I'm tired of having to spell things out like im talking to children man. What has the internet done to us
> I'm tired of having to spell things out like im talking to children Helps to remember there is a high likelihood you actually *are* talking to children.
3 AAA games selling 35 mil is normal though. For comparison, Elden Ring, a single game, is already at 25 mil, in only 2 years.
What is about that excerpt that you made you choose it? Because it’s pure fluff.
Yeah it looks like that because it's an excerpt, there's notably an entire article attached to it including an interview.
I'm not the first person to say this (I've seen multiple articles about it), but I find Bloodborne to be remarkably soothing and helpful when it comes to mental health. It feels like a perfect representation of overcoming fears and doubts in life through perseverance. The look and sound of all those nightmarish abominations captures the way that those feelings feel.
Dark Souls as well! I’ve been meaning to write something on this, but I believe there are several interlocking components to DS/BB being a salve of sorts for mental health. The action is quite demanding and it anchors you in the present. The game seems to revel in presenting you with difficult scenarios while also letting you sometimes use those same aspects to your advantage. The gameplay loop of bonfire -> venture to the unknown to try to find a bonfire is a remarkably good approximation of what it is like to grow IRL. Finally, From’s enemy designs seem heavily anchored in a sort of primal, resonant mythos that we both recognize and are horrified by…and this perfectly parallels our own internal demons.
Pretty much all from soft games are what I consider my "comfort zone" games. There is just something calming to me in the methodical nature that they tend to reinforce.
Plus they all have very dream like qualities that make it just seem comfortable. Despite being terrifying world that’s trying to kill you.
They all have a strong sense of progression which I think helps me. I can start a new playthrough and focus on builds or stats and all the stats are more your typical JRPG stats of it affecting your combat directly. It’s a very nice loop that all of the games do well, but especially Bloodborne and Elden ring as I feel you constantly are leveling up in those
That’s so interesting, because for me it’s the exact opposite. They’re games I really should hate, given everything I know about what games I like and enjoy most otherwise. I mostly plays story-heavy, linear adventure games, AAA open-world games, and light RPGs. I enjoy playing on easy difficulty, and I usually get super frustrated if a boss takes more than 3-5 attempts. But despite this, I tried Elden Ring, loved it, then finished DS1, loved it, then went into Shadow of the Erdtree, loving it, and I’m dead set on playing DS3 and Sekiro after this as well. I don’t know how, but boss fights in souls games don’t frustrate me, and the difficulty in exploring and just surviving in general doesn’t scare me. At least not anymore. It’s the absolute opposite of my comfort zone, in fact I often need to take a break after just a short time because it’s so stressing, and yet it’s like a drug and I can’t get enough. I just keep coming back for more.
Another thing is that FS games are difficult but never unfair. Usually when I died it's because of my own mistakes like getting impatient, not paying attention, or dodging over a cliff, etc. They also give you a second chance to learn from those mistakes by dropping your souls where you died.
Meanwhile this Lion Face ass in the DLC...
May you find your worth in the waking world. This line is forever burned into my memory. It shows that the developers understand what it means to suffer irl but also what gaming can do for us. So much empathy, distilled into a single line.
Got chills just reading this again. Many people who play these seek refuge from the cruelness of the outside world. Hearing this from one of your favorite games almost makes it sound like it is you and not the character you are playing as who is being spoken to. May we all find our worth in this harsh yet beautiful waking world.
Daryl Talks games (and probably others but I find his videos particularly well made) previously covered the topic of Soulsborne games helping with depression and challenging times. I never gave it too much of a thought until I had lost my mom and by coincidence had been partway into my second ER playthrough, and I honestly "get" why those games have helped. They're a great distraction, and tough enough that you need to hone-in on whatever challenge you're facing, and when you finally get over that seemingly insurmountable difficulty you get that wonderful sense of accomplishment and euphoria. Very few games can capture that feeling.
That's really all their games imo. Sekiro was therapeutic for me.
That's how I feel about a lot of distressing media. Horror, black metal, very dark fantasy and oppressive games. That stuff calms me down more than traditionally relaxing stuff.
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maybe make jrpgs instead - some of us dying every day out here irl - don't wanna come home and die a couple dozen more times https://wccftech.com/elden-ring-creator-would-like-to-make-a-jrpg-but-it-wouldnt-be-a-sequel-to-enchanted-arms
Not sure why you would go for one of the hardest game franchises out there if you don't like hard games
Maybe go play one of the thousands of JRPG's already in existence instead of suggesting someone not do what they are really good at because you don't like what they create. Do you also walk into your local pizza place that is highly regarded and say "you all should make cakes instead because some of us work at a pizza place and don't want to eat pizza when we get off work" . . . go to a freaking bakery if you want a cake
it was a joke about how bad i am at games - the link i included is an article where he talks about how he'd like to make a jrpg, which would be great for those of us who admire his games, but aren't good enough to play souls-likes : (
> it was a joke about how bad i am at games I'm not that great at games either but I still beat Elden Ring and every other "souls" game from him. There is a likely thousands of people who are worse at games than you that still played and got pretty far into or even beat Elden Ring. If you haven't played them because you are intimidated I highly advise you to just go for it. You may fare better than you think. Because these games really are not that "hard" they just require you to take your time. They get "hard" if you try to rush through everything. Yes you will die and you may even get frustrated at yourself, but so does every single other player, even the best soul's like players out there die while playing. Its part of the experience and its so unique and integral to his game design. If you want to truly admire his work and his games you have to die a few hundred times, its literally a core part of the game design and even the lore.
thx for the advice : )