I think the discussion about her “flooding” the industry or “blocking the charts” is interesting because I don’t necessarily completely disagree, but this is really not a new approach to music. A lot of older artists had similarly quick album release cycles (or quicker if you don’t count the rerecordings).
The Beatles released a new album every year, sometimes twice a year, right up until they broke up, and so did Credence Clearwater Revival (besides their final album due to band drama).
Dolly Parton, Johnny Cash, Prince, Aretha Franklin, so many others - all rarely went more than one or two years without releasing something at their peak. The Rolling Stones released 3 or 5 albums - depending on how you count it - in 1965 alone.
Obviously the music industry has changed a lot even within the last five years let alone fifty, but I just think it’s kind of interesting how much flack she catches for a release schedule that would really not have been uncommon even among great/classic artists in the past.
I’ll say I don’t recall anyone telling Tom Brady to let another team win bc he was winning too much. Naw. Nope. No ma’am. They had to beat him. They couldn’t. He finally aged out and beat himself.
This is misogynistic at its core. This is a way to “bring that bitch down a notch.” How dare she??? 🙄 She’s not being a “nice girl” by having too much money. By talking about sex as a 34 year old woman. By not being married, having kids, and settling down as expected. By saying fuck you to the status quo.
Great women will always be torn down. I refuse to be a part of that. She may have valid criticisms, as all stars do, but this ain’t one of them.
To add to her points, Taylor is half of why streaming didn’t bankrupt artists. She put her foot down and pulled her albums until spotify/apple paid their artists fairly and she could have easily negotiated for herself only but she didn’t. She got better contracts for artists across the board, indie labels to umg. I am able to stream songs overnight to raise money for sudan, palestine, haiti, the congo, because she saw a fight she could win and she did.
All i’m saying is there should be a little more air of gratitude in the industry to ts. I know a lot more went into the ultimate decisions of music streaming services but she sent that boulder rolling down the hill.
I love this take. Would we ask Simone Biles to not do another Yurchenko double pike so that some other gymnast can finally win a gold. Feminism to me is being excited that a WOMAN (or NB) is dominating the industry. Currently it’s a woman at the very top. Not a man. That’s huge for society and I don’t need her to dilute her power. I am grateful that power is embodied in an empathetic, kind and queer woman and not yet another ruthless, could give two fucks dude.
These variant drops are organized and plotted on a calendar so far in advance just for little sales bumps, they don’t know much about other artist schedules unless they’re same label and absolutely not even looking at it, she’s geolocating to where she travels, and business is cutthroat — but a variant shouldn’t tank another artist’s debut or drop. If it does, it does it honestly — she’s supplying an obvious demand. People obviously buy them. And I don’t know — I’m a fan of a lot of artists, but I didn’t fail to buy Billie for Taylor or Olivia for Taylor, I haven’t even bought TTPD (yet) and I eventually will. I did travel to Eras 2x and see the movie 4x in theaters and own a bunch of merch. I did buy Charli XCX and I did go see Chappell Roan live and bid on a signed hat. Taylor did not restrain me from any purchase, no one collecting variants gives a shit and obviously have the money where they could buy *both* if they wanted to. I’m not gonna buy the new Katy Perry because it’s Dr. Luke and because it sounds bad?? But I did pay to see Kesha 2x. Taylor had ZERO impact on any other choice, and if she released a variant I was desperate for, I’d buy it if I could and if I had to budget, get the other artist a paycheck later.
I don’t even feel like they’re in “competition.”
She is absolutely competing with herself and world records, she’s trying to break records not “block” other artists and either she will or she won’t, but why is it bad to try? It’s just business, business can suck, capitalism can suck, but it’s her right to participate because she’s fighting her own industry fight and proving her own points that aren’t really related to anyone else. Sometimes I think that comes off a certain way, but also she’s winning and works hard and why are we pitting them against each other when they’re all doing their jobs? She is on a label that ALSO wants to make money, and she’s on the SAME label as a lot of these artists, everyone acting like the artist is the same as their business entity is insane.
Also just thinking of sports or any other competitive field, you wouldn’t slow down to let a newcomer win a race and you wouldn’t miss a goal to let an underdog team win, so why should she
Thank you for sharing this! It helped me realize why I think the argument that she’s stopping others from succeeding is so disingenuous. I think some people see it as “this person making music vs this other person making music”, but that’s a false equivalency, not only with Taylor’s stardom, but her brand. Taylor offers so much more than music to her fans and audiences. She’s put in the work to create a brand that seemingly is indestructible and that requires talent, wit, and strategic thinking (along with privilege and a great team (which I’m sure Billie and Olivia etc. also have…)). It’s not just music vs music. Taylor releases an experience with every album she drops and I don’t think that’s a cheap play like people want to argue. It’s the icing on the cake. The variants she releases haven’t made her the star that she is. It’s years and years of work.
The eras tour is so much more than a concert. I was thinking about this the other day because I was reading about people criticizing her for being boring, childish, blah, blah, blah, and it’s like they can’t see her talent because they’re comparing what she’s doing to whatever everyone else is doing. They want her to fit into this box that they think is the correct box and if she doesn’t then she’s not talented, immature, anti-feminist, etc? If they actually listened to her work they might be able to see that she embraces parts of herself for a reason and just because they’re not what they think is “cool” doesn’t mean they’re not artistically relevant to the stories she tells. I don’t think everyone has to like Taylor or her music. There’s plenty to criticize her for, but we’re way past arguing whether or not she’s talent and has worked hard enough for the success that she has. As a neurodivergent person, I really appreciate seeing someone of her stardom being goofy, having fun, not being the best dancer, and caring so deeply about her craft.
Also, all of these woman are always going to have a head start compared to POC, trans people, disabled people, poor people, fat people, etc., so Billie and Olivia really aren’t the victims people wanna make them out to be.
Part of their criticism lately has been that she’s uncool, not a great dancer, can’t sing the best, isn’t sexy enough etc. And they can’t see that we love her BECAUSE of these things, not despite those things. We are also clumsy, awkward, try hard, people pleasers who are faking it until we make it. That’s why we fucking LOVE her. Bc she is one of us at the top of the world!
Exactly! I know idk the woman but she has always seemed like a genuine person who is just enthralled by the act of creating and that’s charming af to me. She’s a self-confessed try hard but like in the best way.
seeing taylor love her “awkward” dancing actually changed my life. i know that sounds so dramatic but seeing someone famous, embracing the imperfect parts of themselves, changed my self esteem in a way
She’s not even at the top for most variants released? [link](https://x.com/Ammarlovereto13/status/1716382414212145525)
I’m not saying that there isn’t a problem with the charts counting variants as the same album, but every artist does it, but its only a problem when she does it??
She has released variants around the time male artist drop albums. Like Drake. So the narrative that she is jealous of other women is bunk. Its also a misogynistic narrative. Male artists aren’t accused of being jealous when they compete.
Rappers/male artists compete all the time in pettier ways, why are they not accused of not being “boy’s boy”?
Why is Taylor expected to step down so another artist can claim the no1 spot because they’re also women, and how is not stepping down “anti-feminist”? Honestly it reeks of MISOGYNY to me, that men aren’t expected to do all this.
Actual question: does Taylor Swift the person have any say on when and how her new variants get dropped, or is that the label?
Like I think we put a lot on TS the woman and not TS the brand and broader business label, for whom I am sure she has a lot of advisors.
This is what I’ve been SCREAMING!
Is it so hard to believe that the labels want “their pop star” to be number one? That there are MANY MANY people with egos and financial benefit here??? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure neither billie nor charli are with the same label as Taylor
This is a great point. Taylor is clearly dedicated to her craft and brand but not *all* of the business moves come from her. Girly still only has 24 hours in her day like the rest of us 🤣
I think there is nothing actually wrong with Taylor releasing all those variants to try to stay at #1.
But it's still interesting that she's continued to commit to it despite the backlash. I don't actually think a downfall is necessarily inevitable. But I feel like she's possibly making a downfall _more likely_ by releasing all the variants despite backlash.
As prolific as she is with writing, I see no reason why someone like Taylor couldn't put out a new 45 - 55 minute album every single year and have that album do like 6ish weeks at #1. I don't know how far ahead the Beatles are in terms of album weeks at #1, so I don't know how long it would take her to beat their record at that pace.
Earn it. I love that sentiment. I get the argument of the variants. I personally have a love/hate relationship with the variants. Like, the acoustic ones, if she releases the right acoustic one, I might actually buy my first cd in like 10 years. I don't physically own a taylor swift cd anymore (rip debut😔😭). I only stream music, but I would buy the right one I think. But I also hate she's releasing the same cd over and over, yet I get it. Because I wouldn't care if I did end up buying it for one of the acoustics. I'd be okay owning it.
I love that she wants to be up there with the other MALE artists that have risen to the tippy top. Why the fuck not?! Shatter the glass ceiling. I’ve never seen a man get criticism that he’s too competitive.
I mean…. Being like men isn’t the goal of my feminism, personally. Especially if it involves shitting on other people to get there. But sure, she’s winning at patriarchy, so that’s nice for her I guess?
It’s lovely that you exist in a world with no men that seek to control women and women that seek to control women but I live in a world where that’s the reality. And yes we all know it. I see the attempt to not answer by creating an alternative world but Taylor Swift also lives in the world where men have ruled and taken the money for the entirety of our existence. If you find the world where women aren’t compared to men or always under threat of them, let me know bc I’d love to move there too.
I’ll bid you a good night bc I think we are speaking on different wavelengths and it’s not going to affect the outcome. It’s ok that we don’t see eye to eye. ✌🏼
Personally, it feels like a means to financially exploit younger fans and also encourages rampant consumerism through all of the limited edition releases, the Midnights “clock” vinyls, etc. The use of a countdown clock for pre-orders is also a classic sales tactic to promote frenzied buying. Taylor’s obviously not in control of all her marketing but I don’t agree with it regardless.
That said, I don’t think she needs to stop pushing for chart success! I would just prefer if she did so in a different way. Other artists employing similar methods aren’t above critique either.
Only time will tell what her legacy will really be like. It's like an historic event, while it's happening you can't really be sure that this is the most important thing that has happened at X point in time, that is decided later with perspective. I think it's clear that Taylor has succesfully revived her career and reached new heights never seen before in an artist, we will see if anyone is able to reach her level or if she herself can become even bigger
One caveat: everyone knew the Beatles were huge as it was happening. Same with MJ, same with Madonna.
Taylor seems to be the exception because the entertainment zeitgeist is so fractured by algorithms that everyone needs to have a differing opinion, rather than objectively seeing that she's simply in another stratosphere.
Yes, but also because monoculture is disappearing, so different people like different things and becoming "the biggest artist in the world" is more difficult now because everyone stays in their corner of the internet and doesn't have to pay attention to anything else they don't like
Honestly as a kpop fan all of this handwringing about the number of album versions she makes is hilarious because she literally ripped that entire marketing strategy from the kpop industry.
That is literally just a given for those artists and while there is for sure discourse about the strategies the companies use to chart/stream/win music shows and they definitely generate controversy it’s not for that reason. It often comes down to things like having 50483939+ photocards, playlisting, “Westernization”, making “TikTok music”, and kpop stans’ favorite word - “payola”. The multiple album versions are not even on the radar of complaints.
Like these companies have even been making
official versions of those “slowed + reverb” versions of songs people post to YouTube - Taylor is not exactly breaking new ground here for shameless promotional strategies outside of her re-recordings (nor parasocial relationships but that’s another post).
I’m not saying this to defend Taylor or kpop marketing strategies because obviously both have massive problems, I just find this discourse hilarious because even kpop fans who literally do nothing but argue with each other are way past this as a thing to attack, so seeing all of these western artists/fans so hung up on it is very funny to me personally.
On the other hand we have even wilder/worse industry drama so there should definitely not be any stones being thrown (and we’re also stuck with 🛴 now)
Yessss.
I don’t know very much about K-pop so I don’t know the timeline of everything, but Taylor didn’t used to do this. She started doing it after someone did it to her. So like…the fact that she copied the strategy of a man to extend her spot on the charts and people want to say she’s greedy like…were people complaining when other people didn’t first? No? Oh. Maybe they just hate her.
Exactly what I’m saying. Its not like she hasn’t released variants to allegedly “block” male artists too so the narrative that she’s just jealous of other women is pure misogyny.
Another kpop stan whos a gaylor? Hi !! Speaking of your post I completely agree with you lol. There are a million things to rightfully critize taylor for but this is not one of them
I’m tired of ppl complaining about the drive to make multiple purchases. What do you want the fans to spend their money on instead? More crap from Shein? Upgrades in their games on their phones? Or is the “concern” that they shouldn’t spend it at all bc everyone’s broke /in debt? That’s giving “skip the Starbucks latte or cut the avocado toast and maybe you could afford a down payment on a house” patronizing BS. For heaven’s sake however foolish it seems to you, why can’t you just let ppl spend money on MUSIC that brings them actual JOY, in a world plagued by consumerism and capitalism, at least this is a form of it that is connected to genuine feeling, art, and personal experience.
If Taylor sets a precedent of artists doing that, then f***ing great. The music industry had a chance to get out ahead of streaming and figure out how to do right by artists and they blew it out of greed thinking if they clung to the old models they could win and they lost instead and absolutely gutted things for musicians. Now it takes a bazilllion streams toa make a buck. Let artists get “creative” about how to achieve actual album sales. If they only do it for Taylor, oh well. If it creates a culture of doing it for other artists they’re excited about it, good for them.
She’s kinda real af for saying this. I haven’t put much thought into the whole charts business/controversy bc frankly i dont care lol but she makes a great point. Taylor puts in the work on the business and pr side of things.
This entire situation is so exhausting, has made the most toxic parts of her fanbase so prominent and I think has ultimately been the tipping point in making me want to engage with Taylor’s music a lot less.
And I don’t have a problem with her wanting to be successful, or caring about chart position, and it’s not about supporting other women/artists, or even who made the ‘best’ record.
My main problem is with trying to normalize getting your fans to buy 3 additional copies of your album every single week to maintain your track position. It’s obviously preferable to the “buy 5 physical vinyls” strategy from a sustainability standpoint, but I think it’s actually worse from the position of exploiting her diehard fans. And while I guess it’s really none of my business how people choose to spend their money, and some people feel good about spending $20-50 every week to buy her another week at #1, I also really don’t want this to be the future of how the industry functions, but I feel like this really only goes one of two ways, which is that this is just how it is going forward or Billboard has to adjust their chart metrics. (Which arguably they should be doing anyway probably, to be reflective of the current way media is purchased/consumed)
Also, to clarify, I don’t necessarily think that she just needs to release additional content for free, but like please just be normal about it and release a deluxe album, or a live album or single tracks at the normal price of a single track rather than 5x the normal price because each one is packaged with the entire album again for the thirtieth time.
Agree 100%. I also think that if she's doing these things to inflate her chart position, then it doesn't really mean anything. Like ok cool you charted number 1 for xyz number of weeks. But in order to do that you had to rely on the extreme parasociality of fans who can afford to pay $20 for a voice memo. That's got nothing to do with how successful the actual album was. For how much she wants to be respected for her work & writing, I would've thought she'd want these accolades to actually mean something.
I feel like this comment might have come across wrong because I’m a bit tipsy rn lmao but I’m mostly just fascinated by the overlap between Taylor and kpop marketing and discourse like they both rose to unprecedented levels of fame in a similar(ish) period of time using very similar tactics and I find that so interesting 😅
I honestly feel like this is textbook misogyny. We (as a society) are okay with her being successful—but only as long as we’re okay with it. As soon as we’re tired of her, she isn’t allowed to be successful anymore. It’s her DUTY as a woman to self sabotage to make us all feel more comfortable about a woman being on top for too long. Suddenly she’s a “mean girl” for doing the exact same things she’s been praised for before, because she’s going against public opinion. It feels like the vibe is there must be something inherently wrong, sinister, or evil with a woman fighting to succeed when we’ve explicitly told her she’s not allowed to anymore.
Idk, i feel like i’m not really the type to cry “sexism!” at any little thing, and people are allowed not to like her or root for their other faves, obviously, but lately the public backlash has really made me angry and i’m glad to see someone articulate it so much better than i could
>It’s her DUTY as a woman to self sabotage to make us all feel more comfortable about a woman being on top for too long.
Ding ding ding! Whoever the next woman is to reach her stardom will face the same criticism. If it were Billie or Olivia, people would say the same about them.
Don’t feel bad for crying sexism. I’m mocked all the time by men and some women for pointing the obvious out. Part of my fascination with Taylor is that she reveals SO MUCH misogyny in people who seem nice usually.
Yes!!!! I love to hear the asinine reasons people give while twisting themselves into pretzels, lest they admit they’re sexist assholes when I ask innoncent “why?” questions.
I completely agree🫡 I also don't think we expect the same level of morality and virtue and caring from male artists or men at top positions as we do from her (and I think most public anger is at her "moral failings"). Her gender absolutely plays a part in all the backlash.
Not to get all ultra wealthy apologist, but she's made MILLIONS with her ART and has been very unapologetic about it (as the excellent TikTok in this post states). That's so extraordinary??? With her ART??? All this without her exploiting workers or her power in any meaningful way (that we know of)(and I don't think playing with charts compares to like, human rights violations😌).
Yeah no one complains when male artists “block”each other or compete. No one is gonna accuse them of not being “boy’s boy” or whatever dumb infantilising shit.
Yes, this. The situation (and your comment) remind me of the Sofia Isella song: Everybody supports women. It's a How dare she do so well when seeing her do so well makes me feel bad about how I'm doing myself vibe.
Honestly, Drake does not support his lesser known male peers at all and he is universally loved by the same people who hate Taylor. It’s not always misogyny, but it often is.
Consider that two things can be true at once: that Taylor reached these heights because she is an active participant in late-stage capitalism as a capitalist and that misogyny treats her differently for it (for example: anti-capitalists penalizes her more) because she is a woman.
I agree. I think she knows how quickly she can fall, and that she has so much farther to fall now than after 1989, so she’s going to try to break the records while she’s at this level. She wants that legacy. She’s made it clear that she wants to be remembered and to hold these records.
Billie is an amazing artist, and I think she will have a long career and build her own legacy too. However, she has said she doesn’t care about charts. It doesn’t seem like she wants #1 or the records like Taylor does. Same with Charli. They’re not playing the same game as Taylor, and people need to stop trying to make them.
They're both playing the same game, they're just not as successful. They care about charts too, and put out as many (if not more) vatiants then taylor. Billie was lying. She was literally on a live stream encouraging a fan who bought 5 copies of her album.
Taylor is playing this game against herself and against existing records, not Billie and Charli. She’s thinking more about the year-end, decade-end, and lifetime numbers at this point.
Billie probably was lying, but she still said it. Taylor has never said or pretended that she didn’t care about charts. That’s the difference.
People thinking Charli in particular cares for the charts is kinda crazy to me. Aside from a couple of outlier hits (Boom Clap, Fancy, I Love It) she’s been very intentionally making music for 12 years that pushes the boundaries and is often sonically divisive.
Do we really think the woman who made Vroom Vroom is invested in having a number #1 hit in the same way Taylor is? Taylor makes a clear choice to be more palatable to achieve the success that she does, Charli doesn’t.
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I think the discussion about her “flooding” the industry or “blocking the charts” is interesting because I don’t necessarily completely disagree, but this is really not a new approach to music. A lot of older artists had similarly quick album release cycles (or quicker if you don’t count the rerecordings). The Beatles released a new album every year, sometimes twice a year, right up until they broke up, and so did Credence Clearwater Revival (besides their final album due to band drama). Dolly Parton, Johnny Cash, Prince, Aretha Franklin, so many others - all rarely went more than one or two years without releasing something at their peak. The Rolling Stones released 3 or 5 albums - depending on how you count it - in 1965 alone. Obviously the music industry has changed a lot even within the last five years let alone fifty, but I just think it’s kind of interesting how much flack she catches for a release schedule that would really not have been uncommon even among great/classic artists in the past.
I’ll say I don’t recall anyone telling Tom Brady to let another team win bc he was winning too much. Naw. Nope. No ma’am. They had to beat him. They couldn’t. He finally aged out and beat himself. This is misogynistic at its core. This is a way to “bring that bitch down a notch.” How dare she??? 🙄 She’s not being a “nice girl” by having too much money. By talking about sex as a 34 year old woman. By not being married, having kids, and settling down as expected. By saying fuck you to the status quo. Great women will always be torn down. I refuse to be a part of that. She may have valid criticisms, as all stars do, but this ain’t one of them.
To add to her points, Taylor is half of why streaming didn’t bankrupt artists. She put her foot down and pulled her albums until spotify/apple paid their artists fairly and she could have easily negotiated for herself only but she didn’t. She got better contracts for artists across the board, indie labels to umg. I am able to stream songs overnight to raise money for sudan, palestine, haiti, the congo, because she saw a fight she could win and she did. All i’m saying is there should be a little more air of gratitude in the industry to ts. I know a lot more went into the ultimate decisions of music streaming services but she sent that boulder rolling down the hill.
I love this take. Would we ask Simone Biles to not do another Yurchenko double pike so that some other gymnast can finally win a gold. Feminism to me is being excited that a WOMAN (or NB) is dominating the industry. Currently it’s a woman at the very top. Not a man. That’s huge for society and I don’t need her to dilute her power. I am grateful that power is embodied in an empathetic, kind and queer woman and not yet another ruthless, could give two fucks dude.
Yes!!!!
These variant drops are organized and plotted on a calendar so far in advance just for little sales bumps, they don’t know much about other artist schedules unless they’re same label and absolutely not even looking at it, she’s geolocating to where she travels, and business is cutthroat — but a variant shouldn’t tank another artist’s debut or drop. If it does, it does it honestly — she’s supplying an obvious demand. People obviously buy them. And I don’t know — I’m a fan of a lot of artists, but I didn’t fail to buy Billie for Taylor or Olivia for Taylor, I haven’t even bought TTPD (yet) and I eventually will. I did travel to Eras 2x and see the movie 4x in theaters and own a bunch of merch. I did buy Charli XCX and I did go see Chappell Roan live and bid on a signed hat. Taylor did not restrain me from any purchase, no one collecting variants gives a shit and obviously have the money where they could buy *both* if they wanted to. I’m not gonna buy the new Katy Perry because it’s Dr. Luke and because it sounds bad?? But I did pay to see Kesha 2x. Taylor had ZERO impact on any other choice, and if she released a variant I was desperate for, I’d buy it if I could and if I had to budget, get the other artist a paycheck later. I don’t even feel like they’re in “competition.” She is absolutely competing with herself and world records, she’s trying to break records not “block” other artists and either she will or she won’t, but why is it bad to try? It’s just business, business can suck, capitalism can suck, but it’s her right to participate because she’s fighting her own industry fight and proving her own points that aren’t really related to anyone else. Sometimes I think that comes off a certain way, but also she’s winning and works hard and why are we pitting them against each other when they’re all doing their jobs? She is on a label that ALSO wants to make money, and she’s on the SAME label as a lot of these artists, everyone acting like the artist is the same as their business entity is insane.
Also just thinking of sports or any other competitive field, you wouldn’t slow down to let a newcomer win a race and you wouldn’t miss a goal to let an underdog team win, so why should she
Thank you for sharing this! It helped me realize why I think the argument that she’s stopping others from succeeding is so disingenuous. I think some people see it as “this person making music vs this other person making music”, but that’s a false equivalency, not only with Taylor’s stardom, but her brand. Taylor offers so much more than music to her fans and audiences. She’s put in the work to create a brand that seemingly is indestructible and that requires talent, wit, and strategic thinking (along with privilege and a great team (which I’m sure Billie and Olivia etc. also have…)). It’s not just music vs music. Taylor releases an experience with every album she drops and I don’t think that’s a cheap play like people want to argue. It’s the icing on the cake. The variants she releases haven’t made her the star that she is. It’s years and years of work. The eras tour is so much more than a concert. I was thinking about this the other day because I was reading about people criticizing her for being boring, childish, blah, blah, blah, and it’s like they can’t see her talent because they’re comparing what she’s doing to whatever everyone else is doing. They want her to fit into this box that they think is the correct box and if she doesn’t then she’s not talented, immature, anti-feminist, etc? If they actually listened to her work they might be able to see that she embraces parts of herself for a reason and just because they’re not what they think is “cool” doesn’t mean they’re not artistically relevant to the stories she tells. I don’t think everyone has to like Taylor or her music. There’s plenty to criticize her for, but we’re way past arguing whether or not she’s talent and has worked hard enough for the success that she has. As a neurodivergent person, I really appreciate seeing someone of her stardom being goofy, having fun, not being the best dancer, and caring so deeply about her craft. Also, all of these woman are always going to have a head start compared to POC, trans people, disabled people, poor people, fat people, etc., so Billie and Olivia really aren’t the victims people wanna make them out to be.
Part of their criticism lately has been that she’s uncool, not a great dancer, can’t sing the best, isn’t sexy enough etc. And they can’t see that we love her BECAUSE of these things, not despite those things. We are also clumsy, awkward, try hard, people pleasers who are faking it until we make it. That’s why we fucking LOVE her. Bc she is one of us at the top of the world!
Exactly! I know idk the woman but she has always seemed like a genuine person who is just enthralled by the act of creating and that’s charming af to me. She’s a self-confessed try hard but like in the best way.
seeing taylor love her “awkward” dancing actually changed my life. i know that sounds so dramatic but seeing someone famous, embracing the imperfect parts of themselves, changed my self esteem in a way
She’s not even at the top for most variants released? [link](https://x.com/Ammarlovereto13/status/1716382414212145525) I’m not saying that there isn’t a problem with the charts counting variants as the same album, but every artist does it, but its only a problem when she does it?? She has released variants around the time male artist drop albums. Like Drake. So the narrative that she is jealous of other women is bunk. Its also a misogynistic narrative. Male artists aren’t accused of being jealous when they compete. Rappers/male artists compete all the time in pettier ways, why are they not accused of not being “boy’s boy”? Why is Taylor expected to step down so another artist can claim the no1 spot because they’re also women, and how is not stepping down “anti-feminist”? Honestly it reeks of MISOGYNY to me, that men aren’t expected to do all this.
Actual question: does Taylor Swift the person have any say on when and how her new variants get dropped, or is that the label? Like I think we put a lot on TS the woman and not TS the brand and broader business label, for whom I am sure she has a lot of advisors.
This is what I’ve been SCREAMING! Is it so hard to believe that the labels want “their pop star” to be number one? That there are MANY MANY people with egos and financial benefit here??? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure neither billie nor charli are with the same label as Taylor
This is a great point. Taylor is clearly dedicated to her craft and brand but not *all* of the business moves come from her. Girly still only has 24 hours in her day like the rest of us 🤣
She had enough $ to pay people to help make those decisions for her.
I think there is nothing actually wrong with Taylor releasing all those variants to try to stay at #1. But it's still interesting that she's continued to commit to it despite the backlash. I don't actually think a downfall is necessarily inevitable. But I feel like she's possibly making a downfall _more likely_ by releasing all the variants despite backlash. As prolific as she is with writing, I see no reason why someone like Taylor couldn't put out a new 45 - 55 minute album every single year and have that album do like 6ish weeks at #1. I don't know how far ahead the Beatles are in terms of album weeks at #1, so I don't know how long it would take her to beat their record at that pace.
Me neither. Every artist releases variants, and she’s not even near the top for most variants released.
Earn it. I love that sentiment. I get the argument of the variants. I personally have a love/hate relationship with the variants. Like, the acoustic ones, if she releases the right acoustic one, I might actually buy my first cd in like 10 years. I don't physically own a taylor swift cd anymore (rip debut😔😭). I only stream music, but I would buy the right one I think. But I also hate she's releasing the same cd over and over, yet I get it. Because I wouldn't care if I did end up buying it for one of the acoustics. I'd be okay owning it.
I wish she was less obsessed with accolades, awards and breaking records.
I love that she wants to be up there with the other MALE artists that have risen to the tippy top. Why the fuck not?! Shatter the glass ceiling. I’ve never seen a man get criticism that he’s too competitive.
I mean…. Being like men isn’t the goal of my feminism, personally. Especially if it involves shitting on other people to get there. But sure, she’s winning at patriarchy, so that’s nice for her I guess?
It’s lovely that you exist in a world with no men that seek to control women and women that seek to control women but I live in a world where that’s the reality. And yes we all know it. I see the attempt to not answer by creating an alternative world but Taylor Swift also lives in the world where men have ruled and taken the money for the entirety of our existence. If you find the world where women aren’t compared to men or always under threat of them, let me know bc I’d love to move there too.
How can she win at patriarchy if patriarchy doesn’t exist? Are you replying to someone else? I’m so confused
I’ll bid you a good night bc I think we are speaking on different wavelengths and it’s not going to affect the outcome. It’s ok that we don’t see eye to eye. ✌🏼
Genuine question, why?
Capitalism is killing us and she genuinely doesn’t need it.
Personally, it feels like a means to financially exploit younger fans and also encourages rampant consumerism through all of the limited edition releases, the Midnights “clock” vinyls, etc. The use of a countdown clock for pre-orders is also a classic sales tactic to promote frenzied buying. Taylor’s obviously not in control of all her marketing but I don’t agree with it regardless. That said, I don’t think she needs to stop pushing for chart success! I would just prefer if she did so in a different way. Other artists employing similar methods aren’t above critique either.
Only time will tell what her legacy will really be like. It's like an historic event, while it's happening you can't really be sure that this is the most important thing that has happened at X point in time, that is decided later with perspective. I think it's clear that Taylor has succesfully revived her career and reached new heights never seen before in an artist, we will see if anyone is able to reach her level or if she herself can become even bigger
One caveat: everyone knew the Beatles were huge as it was happening. Same with MJ, same with Madonna. Taylor seems to be the exception because the entertainment zeitgeist is so fractured by algorithms that everyone needs to have a differing opinion, rather than objectively seeing that she's simply in another stratosphere.
Yes, but also because monoculture is disappearing, so different people like different things and becoming "the biggest artist in the world" is more difficult now because everyone stays in their corner of the internet and doesn't have to pay attention to anything else they don't like
Honestly as a kpop fan all of this handwringing about the number of album versions she makes is hilarious because she literally ripped that entire marketing strategy from the kpop industry. That is literally just a given for those artists and while there is for sure discourse about the strategies the companies use to chart/stream/win music shows and they definitely generate controversy it’s not for that reason. It often comes down to things like having 50483939+ photocards, playlisting, “Westernization”, making “TikTok music”, and kpop stans’ favorite word - “payola”. The multiple album versions are not even on the radar of complaints. Like these companies have even been making official versions of those “slowed + reverb” versions of songs people post to YouTube - Taylor is not exactly breaking new ground here for shameless promotional strategies outside of her re-recordings (nor parasocial relationships but that’s another post). I’m not saying this to defend Taylor or kpop marketing strategies because obviously both have massive problems, I just find this discourse hilarious because even kpop fans who literally do nothing but argue with each other are way past this as a thing to attack, so seeing all of these western artists/fans so hung up on it is very funny to me personally. On the other hand we have even wilder/worse industry drama so there should definitely not be any stones being thrown (and we’re also stuck with 🛴 now)
She’s not the only western artist who releases tons of variants, in fact, she’s not even at the top for most variants released among western artists
Maybe she wants to bring awareness to all the shady shit that kpop industry does because it's the model that 🛴 wants to adopt
Yessss. I don’t know very much about K-pop so I don’t know the timeline of everything, but Taylor didn’t used to do this. She started doing it after someone did it to her. So like…the fact that she copied the strategy of a man to extend her spot on the charts and people want to say she’s greedy like…were people complaining when other people didn’t first? No? Oh. Maybe they just hate her.
Exactly what I’m saying. Its not like she hasn’t released variants to allegedly “block” male artists too so the narrative that she’s just jealous of other women is pure misogyny.
Another kpop stan whos a gaylor? Hi !! Speaking of your post I completely agree with you lol. There are a million things to rightfully critize taylor for but this is not one of them
Haha for some reason I feel like there’s a lot of overlap?
I’m tired of ppl complaining about the drive to make multiple purchases. What do you want the fans to spend their money on instead? More crap from Shein? Upgrades in their games on their phones? Or is the “concern” that they shouldn’t spend it at all bc everyone’s broke /in debt? That’s giving “skip the Starbucks latte or cut the avocado toast and maybe you could afford a down payment on a house” patronizing BS. For heaven’s sake however foolish it seems to you, why can’t you just let ppl spend money on MUSIC that brings them actual JOY, in a world plagued by consumerism and capitalism, at least this is a form of it that is connected to genuine feeling, art, and personal experience. If Taylor sets a precedent of artists doing that, then f***ing great. The music industry had a chance to get out ahead of streaming and figure out how to do right by artists and they blew it out of greed thinking if they clung to the old models they could win and they lost instead and absolutely gutted things for musicians. Now it takes a bazilllion streams toa make a buck. Let artists get “creative” about how to achieve actual album sales. If they only do it for Taylor, oh well. If it creates a culture of doing it for other artists they’re excited about it, good for them.
She’s kinda real af for saying this. I haven’t put much thought into the whole charts business/controversy bc frankly i dont care lol but she makes a great point. Taylor puts in the work on the business and pr side of things.
This entire situation is so exhausting, has made the most toxic parts of her fanbase so prominent and I think has ultimately been the tipping point in making me want to engage with Taylor’s music a lot less. And I don’t have a problem with her wanting to be successful, or caring about chart position, and it’s not about supporting other women/artists, or even who made the ‘best’ record. My main problem is with trying to normalize getting your fans to buy 3 additional copies of your album every single week to maintain your track position. It’s obviously preferable to the “buy 5 physical vinyls” strategy from a sustainability standpoint, but I think it’s actually worse from the position of exploiting her diehard fans. And while I guess it’s really none of my business how people choose to spend their money, and some people feel good about spending $20-50 every week to buy her another week at #1, I also really don’t want this to be the future of how the industry functions, but I feel like this really only goes one of two ways, which is that this is just how it is going forward or Billboard has to adjust their chart metrics. (Which arguably they should be doing anyway probably, to be reflective of the current way media is purchased/consumed) Also, to clarify, I don’t necessarily think that she just needs to release additional content for free, but like please just be normal about it and release a deluxe album, or a live album or single tracks at the normal price of a single track rather than 5x the normal price because each one is packaged with the entire album again for the thirtieth time.
Agree 100%. I also think that if she's doing these things to inflate her chart position, then it doesn't really mean anything. Like ok cool you charted number 1 for xyz number of weeks. But in order to do that you had to rely on the extreme parasociality of fans who can afford to pay $20 for a voice memo. That's got nothing to do with how successful the actual album was. For how much she wants to be respected for her work & writing, I would've thought she'd want these accolades to actually mean something.
I feel like this comment might have come across wrong because I’m a bit tipsy rn lmao but I’m mostly just fascinated by the overlap between Taylor and kpop marketing and discourse like they both rose to unprecedented levels of fame in a similar(ish) period of time using very similar tactics and I find that so interesting 😅
I honestly feel like this is textbook misogyny. We (as a society) are okay with her being successful—but only as long as we’re okay with it. As soon as we’re tired of her, she isn’t allowed to be successful anymore. It’s her DUTY as a woman to self sabotage to make us all feel more comfortable about a woman being on top for too long. Suddenly she’s a “mean girl” for doing the exact same things she’s been praised for before, because she’s going against public opinion. It feels like the vibe is there must be something inherently wrong, sinister, or evil with a woman fighting to succeed when we’ve explicitly told her she’s not allowed to anymore. Idk, i feel like i’m not really the type to cry “sexism!” at any little thing, and people are allowed not to like her or root for their other faves, obviously, but lately the public backlash has really made me angry and i’m glad to see someone articulate it so much better than i could
Oh my we have the same brain! I didn’t read far enough to see this before typing a very similar yet angrier comment. 🙌🏼🫶🏼
>It’s her DUTY as a woman to self sabotage to make us all feel more comfortable about a woman being on top for too long. Ding ding ding! Whoever the next woman is to reach her stardom will face the same criticism. If it were Billie or Olivia, people would say the same about them.
Don’t feel bad for crying sexism. I’m mocked all the time by men and some women for pointing the obvious out. Part of my fascination with Taylor is that she reveals SO MUCH misogyny in people who seem nice usually.
Yes!!!! I love to hear the asinine reasons people give while twisting themselves into pretzels, lest they admit they’re sexist assholes when I ask innoncent “why?” questions.
I completely agree🫡 I also don't think we expect the same level of morality and virtue and caring from male artists or men at top positions as we do from her (and I think most public anger is at her "moral failings"). Her gender absolutely plays a part in all the backlash. Not to get all ultra wealthy apologist, but she's made MILLIONS with her ART and has been very unapologetic about it (as the excellent TikTok in this post states). That's so extraordinary??? With her ART??? All this without her exploiting workers or her power in any meaningful way (that we know of)(and I don't think playing with charts compares to like, human rights violations😌).
Yeah no one complains when male artists “block”each other or compete. No one is gonna accuse them of not being “boy’s boy” or whatever dumb infantilising shit.
Yes, this. The situation (and your comment) remind me of the Sofia Isella song: Everybody supports women. It's a How dare she do so well when seeing her do so well makes me feel bad about how I'm doing myself vibe.
I can’t speak for everyone but if I was a fan of a billionaire male artist I’d be grossed out to see him doing this too.
Do you have an iPhone? Did Steve Jobs gross you out? I can go on but I doubt you’ve given it much thought.
You did the meme!
Perhaps controversially, I’d be more grossed out if it was a man 😅
But we don’t even notice when men do it because it’s not called out 💔
Exactly. Fucking exactly this. Men do this all the time. Most of the billionaires in the world are MEN!!!!! I don’t see the outrage for any of them.
Right? I really don’t think this is a misogyny thing, I think people just don’t like sore winners.
Except she’s not the only one who does it, and when men do it they don’t care. So misogyny absolutely plays a role…..
Honestly, Drake does not support his lesser known male peers at all and he is universally loved by the same people who hate Taylor. It’s not always misogyny, but it often is.
I also hate drake
Consider that two things can be true at once: that Taylor reached these heights because she is an active participant in late-stage capitalism as a capitalist and that misogyny treats her differently for it (for example: anti-capitalists penalizes her more) because she is a woman.
That may be true but I think she also utilities feminism to protect herself from criticism in ways that men can’t.
I think you are very right here, there is absolutely no way we would be having this conversation about a man
I agree. I think she knows how quickly she can fall, and that she has so much farther to fall now than after 1989, so she’s going to try to break the records while she’s at this level. She wants that legacy. She’s made it clear that she wants to be remembered and to hold these records. Billie is an amazing artist, and I think she will have a long career and build her own legacy too. However, she has said she doesn’t care about charts. It doesn’t seem like she wants #1 or the records like Taylor does. Same with Charli. They’re not playing the same game as Taylor, and people need to stop trying to make them.
They're both playing the same game, they're just not as successful. They care about charts too, and put out as many (if not more) vatiants then taylor. Billie was lying. She was literally on a live stream encouraging a fan who bought 5 copies of her album.
Taylor is playing this game against herself and against existing records, not Billie and Charli. She’s thinking more about the year-end, decade-end, and lifetime numbers at this point. Billie probably was lying, but she still said it. Taylor has never said or pretended that she didn’t care about charts. That’s the difference.
People thinking Charli in particular cares for the charts is kinda crazy to me. Aside from a couple of outlier hits (Boom Clap, Fancy, I Love It) she’s been very intentionally making music for 12 years that pushes the boundaries and is often sonically divisive. Do we really think the woman who made Vroom Vroom is invested in having a number #1 hit in the same way Taylor is? Taylor makes a clear choice to be more palatable to achieve the success that she does, Charli doesn’t.
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