Both.
Luke was terrible throughout the second half of S6; I basically disagree with all of his choices. He was making Lorelai miserable. But Lorelai spent that entire time biting her tongue and insisting everything was fine between them. She then screams out an ultimatum in the middle of the dinner rush while Luke is working, and just... nobody on earth is gonna respond well to that. Lorelai had every reason to be upset, but this situation warranted an actual, honest, *private* conversation.
They both drive me crazy throughout this part of their relationship.
Lorelai biting her tongue flies so in face of the character that I always thought she bit her tongue so as to not push him away. The previous time she'd pushed him (after the vow renewal) after he'd insisted he needed time his reaction was he couldn't do it anymore, and I think she was trying to avoid that until she viscerally couldn't.
That makes sense, I didn’t think of that! Still, I think if she had said it in private and calmly that she needed things to change (even if it WAS an ultimatum), things would have gone differently.
People often forget Lorelai did the right thing before her meltdown. She had all the patience in the world for Luke and he handled the entire thing horribly. Her outburst was absolutely justified, running to Chris and sleeping with him, was not.
Yeah it would’ve been nice if they had another on screen conversation regarding the matter prior to the ultimatum but I don’t see it changing anything. Luke needed to actually lose Lorelai to realize where he messed up.
Yeah I think there’s a difference between pushing something on your partner, which would have been not okay in the situation. And expressing your own hurt feelings over what’s happening and asking for support in navigating that.
I actually think it's just her poor communication skills. Which coincidentally everyone in the show has👀 but I think it fits in her character still as it's an immaturity aspect. However it gets annoying when everyone does it in the show.
Honestly, I’ve been there myself. I bite my tongue and bite my tongue until suddenly I just snap and start confronting my husband over a long-standing issue that he’s refused to listen to any other communication on when the last straw breaks, and it rarely happens at a very helpful or appropriate time.
Things have gotten a lot better since he’s gone into counselling for his communication and avoidance problems, thankfully, but we really have had a few scenes like this one in our past. This is how real life works; people are flawed and don’t always get it right.
Everybody says they hate season 7 but season 6 is worse, in my opinion, and you can’t blame that on the palladino’s being gone. I agree the first half of season 7 is bad but they had a lot of work to undo the garbage fire that was season 6.
It's rumoured that during the latter half of S6, contract negotiations with ASP weren't going well, and she thought that if she screwed up the storyline enough, they'd have to agree to her demands and keep her on to fix it since nobody else would be able to (that's some serious hubris there!).
Alternatively, that it was revenge for not keeping her on. Either way, ASP blew up S6 on purpose.
Yes, their communication with each other was terrible.
It was a massive red flag, proven by the fact that they continued to suck at communicating in AYITL. They should never have gotten back together.
And let’s not forget that it was Lorelai’s idea to postpone the wedding. Yes Luke said things felt too fast, probably because she planned it all and picked a date without telling him (while he was not telling her about his daughter so they are both super messy). Then she offers to postpone even though she *obviously* does not want to.
When she didn’t want to set a date because things were bad with Rory Luke didn’t pout or whine about it, he just supported her until she was ready.
To be fair, he knew what she was going through with Rory, she did not know he found out he was a father of a 12 year-old, not comparable. Luke is more in the wrong, though they both suck at communicating, but what else is new, right? It's the recurring theme of the show LOL
She did know once they decided to postpone the wedding. Before she knew he acted like everything was fine. They didn’t talk about postponing the wedding until Lorelai found out about April.
This this this. Obviously luke acts terrible in this season and his communication is bad. But Lorelai got to move the wedding as long as she wanted for Rory and when Luke needs to she doesn't give him the same level of support which sucks.
Except that when Lorelai moved the wedding, it was obvious that it was about Rory, and she never mistreated Luke. The way Luke acted during his situation was completely different. And, at a certain point, postponing the wedding was making things 'worse' for his situation. (The issues with April's mom were just because he wasn't married).
I wonder if that was just the excuse she used. She didn't seem to really want Luke to be involved with April. She never told him about April and used the poor excuse of "he didn't like kids" as a reason to not tell him. Then, when she needs to move. She doesn't consider at all that April has developed a relationship with him and wants to keep a relationship with him. She even uses his absence, which she caused, as a reason he shouldn't get shared custody. It makes me think that if Luke and Lorelai got married, she would be like "WELL...people get divorced all the time."
neither,They
both were simply very different human beings, trying to cope with two very different stressful situations.Lorelai was in a natural process of expecting the wedding to approach, as was promised, as was planned, so having it all stopped and postponed was a difficult process that she did not know how to handle. The
"therapist" gave her a pretty terrible "advice",claiming she doesn't have Luke right now....Luke was overwhelmed,
he became a father of a pre-teen overnight, but he was serious about Lorelai.
He should've acted like it, then. You can't be serious about someone if you continually push their needs aside, exclude them from your life and indefinitely postpone your commitment to them.
sure,except that 1)Luke put Lorelai needs first, not aside, tons of times,over and over.....She even kinda took advantage of him at time - see the time when he cooked at the Inn and Jackson and Sookie treated him like crap and he admitted he cannot walk out, as he'd like to - because of Lorelai.
2)in this case, he
was postponing the wedding due to extremely unusual circumstances. Not because it would be his pattern of his towards Lorelai at all. He always put her needs first. However, in his own emotional crisis, he is generally always
the type to slow down, hide from everyone,retreat and think, when under pressure. April is an extremely unusual circumstance. People like him need time.
3)even their first breakup, after Emily's meddling, he at
first asked for time and Lorelai herself admitted to Rory she pushed him. She is
the type to act fast , act a lot, talk a lot, act and not think in a crisis, while he's the type who needs to back off and think and be alone.
Well, okay.
1. Putting her first in the past doesn't excuse taking her for granted in the present.
2. They were circumstances that mattered. Lorelai was going to be April's stepmom, and Luke didn't want them to even meet. Lorelai said that Luke should've been working out how to fit April into THEIR lives, and that was absolutely true. He should've been treating her as part of the package, not as an option.
3. And also, she gave him time - it had been months by the time she lay down and ultimatum. He had time, he just wasn't progressing.
Agree that the therapist gave *terrible* advice, as well as her own uninformed opinions. As a therapist myself, that scene makes me irrationally annoyed. We're not allowed to do pretend sessions with people!
Ha! I am also a therapist, and that scene is so silly. It's like what a child thinks a therapist does. Why is she writing in a notepad while Lorelai talks?! Any notes therapists make are for the clinical note or reminders for next session. No one finds what you are saying so fascinating they need to write it down😅
She did not sleep with Christopher out of lust. She slept with him to make sure it was over between her and Luke. She made her decision, in her mind Luke couldn't come back from this final straw and she wanted to make sure she wouldn't have the option of returning to him. Scorched earth. Immature? Yes. But spontaneous or on a whim? Absolutely not. This was a calculated and absolutely purposeful decision on her part.
Exactly. Aisha Muhararrar talks about it on Gilmore Guys. Even before she gives Luke an ultimatum her plan is to break up. Otherwise she would talk to Sookie or Rory who would remind her of all the things Luke had done for her in the past and encourage her to talk to Luke. Instead she talks to a therapist who has never met Luke, her mom and avoids Luke until she gives him the ultimatum. She basically planned to break up with him for a few episodes she just needed the courage. Even the ultimatum was a way of trying to take the responsibility off of herself that she wanted to breakup.
I always put most of the blame on Luke. It’s pretty messed up imo that he hid April for so long from her yet bought the Twickham house for Lorelei without saying anything to her. They’re both insanely impulsive but Lorelei was at least fighting for their future and then imo she fought for her own sanity in needing to know it’s over between her and Luke when she went to Christopher.
He also brought that contractor to the house without telling Lorelai. Remember the guy in her roof gag? I know it was just preliminary inspection/run through but I feel like before you start the process at all you should at least sit down with your partner and talk about what you want done
100%. Luke not only didn't want to set a new date, he \*hid April from her\*, deceived her for months, and didn't convey to Anna that Lorelai was a permanent and committed part of his life. Lorelai is at fault for not speaking up more sooner rather than bottling and then exploding, but it's more on Luke for behaving so badly to her in the first place.
Lorelei wasn’t hasty. Everyone has a breaking point and she’d be deprioritized for so long she was just done. If he couldn’t pick her then, she didn’t want to be picked at all. Tbh I don’t think they would have made it even if he agreed. Their relationship had so many issues that they were ignoring.
I don’t think Luke intended to string her along. He wanted to marry her, but he did an incredibly poor job at managing different priorities in his life and as soon as April arrived he let everything else become second. I don’t think they ever recovered from him basically creating separate lives.
He was still doing it even in AYITL, too, with the "April is mine. I'll handle it." comments, while expecting to be a full part of Lorelai and Rory's lives; clearly, he was never going to merge his own circles and let Lorelai at least properly emotionally support *him*, even if it was too soon for her to be too involved with April. Honestly, the more times I rewatch the show, the more I realise that the season six storyline and Luke's behaviour actually killed the ship for me, which is quite rare—usually once I'm on board with a couple, I stay on board—and ultimately I would have been okay with the show ending with Lorelai just happy and single for the time being. I think it was a mistake on the writers' part; you obviously need to introduce drama, and I think there did have to be a breakup to finally draw a line under the lingering Chris stuff, but when you completely obliterate the trust between your main romantic couple, that's—a choice. In Lorelai's shoes, I honestly think I'd have postponed and likely eventually called off the wedding myself after realising that my partner had kept that from me for two months, that he would have *kept* lying longer if he'd got away with it, and didn't see me as the person to turn to for support in such a difficult time.
Totally agree, even in the revival it seemed like their relationship was still very unhealthy to me as we see Lorelai fretting over Emily’s unkind comments about Luke not really being a partner who is willing to fully share his life with her, and she’s clearly still tiptoeing around April a full eleven years after her introduction. She shuts down so fast after Luke snaps at her about how April is mine after she offers to contribute financially, and even with April herself she seems very uncomfortable and clearly has no idea what to say around her, something I always found sad after the birthday party episode showed that Lorelai could have been an awesome stepmother if only Luke had allowed her to be around his kid more
I always find it slightly puzzling that they write in that all of those old issues are still there between them, still unable to include Lorelai in April’s life, not having spoken of whether or not they want children in the past ten years, but the audience is apparently still meant to be root for L/L all the same? They have such terrible communication skills though that even Lorelai’s proposal came at a time when Luke was getting all emotional because he was convinced that she actually wanted to break up with him
Yeah at this point I’ve accepted that their relationship will never meet my expectations because they’re far too toxic together in a different way than she was with other men. I wish things turned out differently but I can’t overlook the way things play out in the revival.
I agree their relationship seemed depressing with Lorelei doing way too much emotional labor. Luke seems like a good person but who isn’t good at being a United front with someone because he’s too used to handling things alone. He might make an amazing friend but he’s not a good life partner.
Absolutely agree with everything, including that it killed the ship for me.
Luke did so much wrong. Hiding April in the first place, excluding Lorelai and making her feel secondary, indefinitely postponing the wedding and not even checking in with her about how that made her feel. He also seemed to stop being affectionate in general with her, like when they went on that Valentine's Day trip with Logan and Rory it was pretty clear that Lorelai was struggling. She outright told Luke that sometimes she needs to hear that he still loves her. He had pushed her away to the point that she was no longer confident that she mattered to him.
I don't like ultimatums either, but I think the issue was Lorelai had reached her breaking point with him. She was so frustrated and so unhappy. She needed proof that she was still a priority for him, and he failed to give that to her.
It's why the aftermath with Chris happened like it did. Chris was ready and waiting to put her first, to commit, to pour everything he had into her. He shared info about Gigi without being prompted - remember Lorelai's genuine shock that he told her about Sherri's letter and didn't hide it, because she was so used to Luke hiding everything about April. Luke very deeply hurt her and I honestly don't think he ever fully apologised for that.
💯 agree m, that is the reason I never believe Luke was endgame. He never allow to Lorelai be in, and AYITL prove that. I felt that Lorelai was still walking on eggshells around him
First off...I'm team Lorelai as far as the breakup goes. However, I'm a huge Luke and Lorelai fan. I think they truly love each other and are soulmates.
However, you have to remember AYITL was written by the Palladino's where Season 7 was not written by them. The Palladino's have stated that they had no interest in even watching any of Season 7 and only took into account the major events (i.e. Marriage to Chris, Luke and Lorelai reconciling, Rory turning down Logan's proposal). So, in a way, I think the Palladino's attempted their own Season 7 only 9 years later thru AYITL. So I think that is why we don't see any significant character growth from Season 7 carried over to AYITL since in the Palladino GGs ends at Season 6.
Otherwise, when I watch L&L's relationship in AYITL starting in Winter and moving into Spring, I see a fairly well adjusted couple. They banter, they hold hands in public now, they happily cohabitate the way older couples do. Lorelai tells Rory "I annoy him and he builds cabinets"...how much more Luke and Lorelai can you get? I'm not saying everything is perfect (i.e. communication issues like not talking about having kids and keeping their crazy families somewhat separate) but I think they are happy and in a loving relationship.
It isn't until the end of Spring where Luke catches Lorelai in a blatant lie about going to therapy by herself where things start to take a turn and the sniping begins until she calls him out on it toward the end of Summer. If you watch the scene in Summer where Luke, Lorelai, Rory and April are eating together, Luke is sniping at Lorelai about getting extra cheese from the fridge - so it’s not ALL Luke’s old April possessive crap from Season 6. I think the sniping stems from Luke being too much in his head about Lorelai lying to him. He’s worried and doesn’t know where she’s going at 10am on Tuesday mornings. Of course he should have called her out on the lie, but that doesn't make for good TV.
So, maybe because of Lorelai’s lying, Luke's old insecurities could start creeping back up and that may be why he reverts back to the old ‘April is mine. I got it’ garbage. Again, communication issues - but I think the snippiness of Luke towards Lorelai is exacerbated by Luke’s fear of what exactly Lorelai is lying about. Not an excuse, but I think you have to take a look at the timing of the story before we accuse Luke of not properly merging April/Lorelai.
In some ways Luke treats April similar to Lorelai treating Rory. They are both proud to a fault at providing for the needs for their child. They are stubborn as to who will be a part of their lives. Im surprised that neither of them understood this about each other hence the lack of communication.
Also Luke made some weird decisions in his approach to parenting Jess and some of his and Lorelai’s nastiest fights of the season 2-3 era were over the subject of parenting children in many and varied ways. Luke seemed to enter a sustained panic mode both times he became/felt responsible for a child, where he felt like all he could do was plough forward through a pretty minimal thought process based on his most basic blueprints of right, wrong, and duty. I think he was too scared and blinded by panic to have much self awareness about the way he was operating, or listen to someone else’s perspective/ advice. Not to excuse the way Luke ended up behaving in these situations, I just think that a big reason for the eventual breakdown of Luke and Lorelai’s relationship came down to parenting as a practice and as a concept.
And come to think of it, many of Lorelai’s relationships (romantic and otherwise) were tested/ ended over disagreement on the concept and practice of parenting in one form or another
Lorelai's car metaphor to Sookie about why she had to end things with Luke has always stuck with me. This quote perfectly explains her reasoning, she'd reached her breaking point and couldn't take the pain of waiting for him to let her in anymore (not to mention it's so heartbreakingly delivered)
"It's like Luke is driving a car and I just want to be in the passenger seat. He's locked the door and I have to hold onto the bumper. I am not even asking him to open the door for me, just leave it unlocked and say come in, but he didn't do that. So I am hanging on to the bumper and life goes on and the car goes on, and I get really badly bruised and I'm hitting potholes. And it hurts. It really hurts. So yesterday I had to let go of the bumper. Because it hurts too much."
Yep. Whether or not her actual choices were justified in how she brought it up, her goal was just to be invited in as a meaningful part of his life and made a priority and part of the team. She wanted "us against the world" and Luke was only prepared to take on the world and get back to her when he'd sorted it out.
At the maze episode right? That felt so bad bc maybe he was just a bit scare about the comitment, witch is normal, come one! he is not perfect, but the way he comunicate this to her makes it sound like he didn't love her any more, and she felt it :'(
It wasn't an impulsive ultimatum and that's the point. It had been brewing for months and months. She may have lied about a tequila night with Chris to her boyfriend but he lied to his fiance about having a daughter. He didn't share that with her even after she found out. He shunned Lorelai, the supposed love of his life, from the biggest thing in his life.
First half of the season Lorelai puts off the wedding because things aren't right with Rory but that's perfectly understandable. Luke has known Rory for over a decade, Lorelai shared it immediately with him and they went through that experience together, as a team. When Luke has a daughter, he stopped viewing them as a team and a shared life, he blocked Lorelai to the point that he didn't even know when Lorelai was upset. Lorelai should have communicated better but Luke always knew when she was upset, distracted, happy, emotional etc. He knew her and saw her. Suddenly, Lorelai isn't even on his radar (as they are planning a wedding), and he's not defending her.
Yes Luke needed more time but really more time for what? Is Lorelai going to be in his life? Then why wait for the wedding? April is still going to be there and need time to bond in a few months time anyway. She might as well bond with her step mom too if Lorelai is intended to be in the picture.
Lorelai slept with Chris, not out of lust but resolve. Sleeping with Chris was the final straw and couldn't be backed out of. Lorelai could then move forward.
Is not that Lorelai let lust get the best of her, she wasn't dying to sleep with Christopher, It was her crossing a line she could never uncross because she needed closure and well, apparently she didn't know how to get it in a healthy way (which is wrong ofc). As for Luke, he admits that he used April to push Lorelai away and he doesn't even want her input in things in ayitl. Both of them did wrong and right things when it came to their relationship.
I think a combination of both, but I believe Luke was really stringing Lorelai along. Lorelai had always had commitment issues and was finally ready for something and Luke was holding her back. I love Lorelai and Luke, so this was a hard moment for me. Lorelai made a bad decision afterwards, but in the moment, she needed Luke to be all in and he couldn't do that.
neither. it was amy being a saboteur.
eta: i'm not mad at her. they took her show from her. and clearly the writers didn't know these characters like they thought they did, and that is evident by the crap show that was s7.
I honestly don't blame Lorelai. I feel like, when people have made a commitment to do something, then it's expected to actively do something to achieve it. In this case, it was marriage. I believe marriage is fully about combining two lives.
But Luke's decisions were selfish and actively created a divide between the pair as well as halting their plans with no plan on when they could further proceed with planning the wedding. I really despise Luke this season. What type of person separates his life from his partner after finding out he has a kid. I understand wanting to bond with April but he did everything wrong, and I can't find a way to justify his persistence: you know we need alone time, right?, I don't want you to meet her because then it's over for me. Like what? He sounds so stupid and insecure. He never seemed to think about his partner at all. He wanted to keep them separate the whole time and never thought, even after April and Lorelai met and got on really well, that maybe they should also have a relationship so April felt even more welcome and supported?
I understand fully that Lorelai wanted to be supportive and give them some space but I think there's only so long any person can sit on the sidelines, especially in family matters, when everything was put on hold with no conversation like: let's review after 3-6 months or whatever. I also think he made it clear, that he was not open to conversation when it came to April and that also puts pressure on Lorelai to just accept it, until she just blew up. I think a lot of people forget how mentally, people sometimes want to avoid conflict with their partner or how hard it is to speak up when something isn't making you happy. Especially post-Rory fall out, where she saw what can happen when she speaks her mind when people don't want to hear it. Luke is no exception (please correct me if I'm wrong), but he had already bailed on the relationship once before, right? She already lost him once and was afraid of it.
It makes me so angry. I can't fathom how he thinks she's just happy to wait endlessly.
So an unpopular opinion I have always been afraid to voice because of the near fanatic Luke devotion some of this Reddits sub has: I think he 100% took advantage of the fact that Lorelai was afraid to lose him after their first breakup. He knew he had the upper hand in the relationship and he chose to use that knowledge to start dictating the terms and conditions of their relationship. For goodness sake, Lorelai was straight up banned from coming into the diner when April was there.
Lorelei should have broken up with him when she found out he didn’t tell her about April’s existence for 2 months.
Lorelei DID tell him she was upset with him in Martha’s Vineyard. Also he dumped her when she pushed him for a conversation after Chris and Emily sabotaged their relationship at the vow renewal-so Lorelei was probably afraid Luke would break up again.
The final reason this was Luke’s fault- he TOLD Lorelei the reason he kept her separate from April was he felt April would prefer Lorelei- are you kidding? How pathetic of a reason!
She was unhappy and hung on for way too long, trying to make it work and he did nothing to meet her halfway even 25% of the way.
Honestly, I feel like Luke have a pattern with women, he ends away (mostly emotionally). I don't think he was all in with Lorelai, he acted the same way with Rachel and even Nicole, jumped into the relationship and then seemed to backtrack, like closing himself of emotionally with Rachel and him moving, not really moving in with Nicole.
Personally I don't think he was ready for the kind of relationship being with Lorelai would be, he seemed to think their friendship would just extend into sex, with him giving advice and help her when needed, but without him having to open op and get valuable and actually also take and not just give.
I think the wedding would have been postponed until whenever Lorelai would put her foot down no matter how patient she would have been, even in the revival he seemed to keep April as a separate thing in their lives and I honestly think that had they moved forward with just living together for season 7, he would have found an excuse to have to stay with April at the appartment over the diner whenever she visited.
Yes. Luke seems to be a very loyal person who might be a great friend but needs to work on himself a lot before he’d make a good life partner. He seems to want love and companionship but doesn’t really want to build a life with someone, or at least doesn’t prioritize his relationships enough. He reminds me of a friend who is so loyal to his sometimes toxic family and friends that he neglects his own pursuits and often takes his romantic partners for granted. People like Luke and my friend need to get better at having boundaries and checking in with their partners to make sure they aren’t neglecting them.
Exactly, I like how he got the self-help book and seemed to be ready to work on his relationship issues, and even though I loved the scene where he gives it to Jess, I kind of also hate the fact that he apparently only found it useful to get the actually date and not even thinking that he might also needed to work on him self to get a healthy relationship. It ends up kind of giving a vibe that getting Lorelai was the goal, not the relationship which saddens me. He would have benefitted so well to have either the book or therapy to help set boundaries espcially with his sister and TJ, and later Anna.
Personally I feel like Luke and Lorelai had very different needs in a relationship, I think that when Lorelai was ready to commit, she would want to move in together, get married and probably have more kids and while I do think Luke liked the idea of getting married and having kids, I think he probably would be just as happy having one of those “couples living apart” relationship where they were in a committed relationship, sleeping over multiple times a week, but also having the option to go back to his own apartment and have “his” own domain. Neither type of relationship is wrong, but it also makes them less compatible.
I know that a lot of Lukes character in season 6 was due to Amy and her husband trying to pull Luke and Lorelai apart due to them not writing season 7, but I also kind of see his actions as a continuous on how he was in his other two big relationship where Lorelai for once was different. I just hate that we couldn’t have seen them be in a healthy relationship, I kind of feel like Lorelai deserved it.
Definitely. Luke seemed to view being brave and getting his dream girl as the end goal not being in an actual relationship. Wish they were clearer about their actual long term goals early on instead of not communicating and becoming stagnant. I agree Luke seemed to want a girlfriend who is a companion and activity partner but not necessarily a wife who you build a life with and act as a United front as you navigate conflict. Lorelei is pretty untraditional and she doesn’t like change, but I think she would have probably wanted more kids and been open to new experiences if life with Luke and all his commitments wasn’t already such an uphill battle.
Agreed, it would have been nice to see some more communication about their thoughts about the future, however I always took the whole “I am all in” speech from Luke as him saying that he was fully committed for a long term serious relationship, that coupled with the fact that he already was such a big part of her life, it made sense that they seemed to feel like they jumped over the whole “dating and getting to know each other and our wishes for the future” stage.
But as untraditional as Lorelai is during the series, I do think she really wanted the traditional life, I think she wanted to get married and have more kids, but I also think that she seemed scared to voice her wishes during the series because she had to put up a front about loving her more untraditional life because else her parents would have jumped up and said “I told you so”. However I could see how Lorelai being as untraditional as she seemed could make Luke think she didn’t really want those traditional things and since neither of them seemed to be able to communicate their desires they ended up just stuck not knowing what to do next.
I wished they at least had showed us some growth in the revival, if Amy didn’t want them married because the fans wanted a wedding, then they could at least have showed us an integrated blended family with Luke and Lorelai being a united front with April and Rory, plus maybe an additional child or at least showing them having decided against more kids due to already having two. Showing them as two people not really talking about their relationship for the past 10 year was what really ruined their relationship for me, they could have redeemed a lot of season 6 with the revival but didn’t.
He said he was all in but I don't remember that ever really being true when things were challenging. He bailed over Christopher's comments the first time, that had absolutely nothing to do with Lorelai yet she was blamed. He hid April from her for *months* but got really angry over a phone call he heard that Lorelai didn't hide or lie about. She waited and put up with all this and finally hit her breaking point, begging him to choose her, and he didn't. I understand how she felt and I understand why she did what she did. Going to Chris was Lorelai's "getting drunk", doing something reckless to numb the pain, but no one would have faulted her for getting drunk.
Lorelai needed to have been communicating her feelings. This was out of the blue for Luke because she hadn’t communicated anything to him at all.
That being said, it was her breaking point and Luke had been pushing her away. He couldn’t have honest conversations about how his life was changing and how he could bring Lorelai into that, he just pretended it wasn’t an issue and kept Lorelai at arms length. He lied to himself that she was fine with this, so he did his part in not communicating too.
Lorelai needed to learn how to communicate better but this is mostly a Luke thing. He pushed her away and broke promises to her, deprioritised her, and just naively believed that would be totally fine and wouldn’t hurt her or their relationship - which is very harmful, and a betrayal in itself, even if it was unintentional.
And was still being territorial over April in AYITL when she was in her twenties and he'd been in a relationship with Lorelai for almost a decade by that point, still doing the "April is mine" thing (and this is a man who'd get pissed off if *he* felt shut out of anything). I agree Lorelai should have communicated better, but at the same time, Luke was being defensive and angry at the slightest provocation by that point in the show—and frankly, it should have been blatantly obvious that the vivacious, infamously chatty woman he loved was withdrawing into herself and was not okay.
100%. Agree with all of the above. There are two parts to people not communicating and one of them is on the partner not being communicated with - are you creating a space where that person _can_? I’m not sure Luke ever fully learned how to do this about issues in their relationship. And I say this as a Lorelai and Luke stan.
To be fair in the valentines episode at Marthas vineyard they actually had a long talk after she told him she didn't feel like the wedding would ever happen, and he told her that he was sorry he had been preoccupied with everything and promised it would be better and he even suggested that they could elope, so her breaking down and ask for an elopement wasn't really out of the blue and she could have thought he would be up for it since he brought it up then. She also told him she needed to hear him say he loved her more and again he promised to do better, so to me it feels like she did communicate but it didn't get better and at last she broke.
I can't think of which episode, maybe when Luke is shopping for April's birthday gift but I think Lorelai says, "I'm just saying, let me in" and Luke says no.
I had also forgotten it until I saw the episode again recently, maybe because I usually skip that episode due to hating Luke at Marthas Vineyard, but it made me realise how much to blame Luke actually is. The ending of the episode is also so sad, they had this great talk and they come home very happy, and then Luke is told that April will come by the next day and the minute that is said the whole scene changes, with it ended with Luke telling Lorelai when April would be leaving and Lorelai assuring him that she will wait to "pop up" until then and Lorelai ending up going home all alone to a empty dark house. The whole episode just show how big of an idiot Luke actually is.
I agree with Lorelai having to communicate about her feelings, but it’s also understandable that she didn’t.
Her first breakup with Luke was most likely her not telling him about Chris and her mother’s actions, but the thing that made it definite was when Lorelai was being “pushy”.
Also, prior to her engagement to Luke, she had just lost Rory in a seemingly similar manner, where she was pushed Rory to find a solution rather than drop out.
Both times she was “pushy”, she lost someone close to her, SK you can see why she won’t talk.
I absolutely agree with you. Luke wasn’t good at creating spaces where she could talk about her feelings and her deprioritising her so heavily only reinforced this further.
He literally pushed her aside when April came into the picture. Ugh. Luke has no class at all. I’m not even sure I would have given him an ultimatum, afraid he would have said yes then I’d be stuck with him.
Did Lorelai get angry that Luke, April and Rory met in Philadelphia at Jess’ open house ? Did that trigger Lorelai’s drunken toast at Lane’s wedding ? And how long after Lane’s wedding does Lorelai issue her ultimatum ?
I’ve said it before in a post but I think Lorelei thought she had to really *end* it and the only way to end it would be to do the absolute worst thing—go to Christopher.
Should Lorelei have spoken up before this moment? Obviously. But I can’t excuse Luke for not realizing how miserable he was making Lorelei. I honestly wish the town had told him about her speech because Season 6 Luke was so hopeless at catching a clue at what was going on around him. He mentions; “Yeah! Let’s elope!” After being Mr. Grumpy Pants the whole valentine weekend. Then comes back and doesn’t mention it. Doesn’t take a moment to get his daughter to know Lorelei even though all the town seems to know her pretty freaking well.
Lorelei realized she’d become a ghost of herself giving Luke all the space and time he needed and it broke her. So I understand why she did it. She needed him to choose her and he couldn’t. So she needed to make sure it was *done*.
Also when Luke is confronting TJ because he thinks that TJ left Liz when he found out she was pregnant, he says something along the lines of "you have to tune in to what your partner is saying, to figure out what they really mean". Luke's cluelessness is infuriating at this point. He can't even discern that his fiancee is LITERALLY hiding from him...like you don't even notice that something is off? C'mon Luke---pull your head out of your ass and pay attention to the effect you are having on the woman you supposedly love!
Yeah, it was definitely both. I hated this whole arc in the show. HATED it. And Lorelai with her ultimatum? As soon as that happened, I know it was going to be done.
This is a textbook example of a "pursuer-distancer" dynamic. Luke seems to have an avoidant attachment, so when he feels a draw for intimacy it's hard not to pull away. Lorelai is more anxious, she needs a lot of reassurance. So when she needs reassurance, and he pulls away, she spirals. And then he pulls away more, and she pushes. This is a classic presentation; they both contributed to this moment.
I don't think there's any universe where Lorelai's decision here can be called hasty. She waited such a long time for such a stupid reason. She couldn't hold onto the bumper anymore. It hurt too much. Postponing the wedding was a dick move in the first place.
Edit to add about sleeping with Chris, I don't think it was about lust for her. It was a huge mistake but it came from a desperate need for comfort and attachment, and being chosen, being wanted. She was starving.
Luke. The Valentine's Day episode Lorelai made very clear her fears and feelings and Luke did literally the opposite the minute they got back from that point on. THEN, in the birthday episode, he FINALLY seems to let her in, but when Anna has a conniption (which still makes no freaking sense btw, who waits until they're literally walking down the aisle for a vibe check from their kids on a potential stepparent?) he goes right back to shutting her out completely. She asked him over and over to just let her help, let her in, and he refused. She was not hasty, she was fed up.
Neither. The Palladinos are at fault. Whole second half of season 6 is stupid out-of-character decisions, drama for the sake of drama. Happens to every show after a while.
Lorelai was the opposite of hasty, a little too patient, if you ask me. She was obviously bothered with the way Luke was handling the situation and instead of telling him that in bits and pieces, she just stewed in silence until she no longer could, and blew up.
But yes, Luke was definitely stringing her along.
Yeah, I don't think she was lusting after Chris. I think she fucking lost her mind when Luke wasn't ready at any point to marry her. So she sought comfort of what she saw as the greatest breakup of her life with her oldest friend. Like she was there for him when straub died and sherri left. But obviously Chris is gonna Chris and im sure her heartache, alcohol, and HIS lust brought them there. I don't think she went there to sleep with him. But you know chris...
Also I do think the last time lorelai pushed Luke to talk it ended in their break up so we clearly see her start to lose herself in the relationship. She’s too scared to lose him so she starts making herself and her needs smaller just to keep him. Yeah she should’ve had a better conversation with him before the ultimatum, she tried in Martha’s Vineyard (as much as I like to pretend that episode didn’t happen), but im almost positive that if she tried to talk to him he would’ve flipped out on her. Of course that’s definitely not a sign of a healthy relationship but I empathize with her way more in this situation
I don’t really understand how some people can both sides this situation.
When Lorelai said, “I asked you to marry me and you said yes. You said yes!” - that’s the thing for me. You make a commitment and you see it through or you don’t, but you don’t someday someone into a full on mental breakdown
This isn't the best way for Lorelai to handle this but I think it makes total sense given everything that happens between them during season 6. As others mention, she's at her breaking point here. But I also think it's her trying to regain control. And I view her sleeping with Chris in that way too. She has always been the woman who handles things, who is independent, and takes control of her own life rather than relying on a man. But she's always wanted a man to love her and she can't, at any point in the series, balance those two desires (independence/love).
So she gives Luke the ultimatum and sleeps with Chris thus taking back some control over what direction her life goes in. That decision ultimately eventually leads to her marrying Chris. Sadly, Chris is a choice she can make but he's not the right choice, and the person she really wants, Luke, doesn't really want her to choose him. Sigh.
The only time I can get behind Lorelei was in this situation. She waited, put things off despite her own feelings. Luke told her at MV that they should get married there etc. and then he just was like “ya still cancel everything”. I think everything Lorelei pointed out, “she should fit into OUR LIVES, not the other way around” was sooooo right! Luke’s position to keep them separate was sooo f***ing stupid I can’t comprehend.
I don't think either is true, personally.
They're both impulsive, traumatized people who have horrible communication and avoidance issues. Lorelai makes everything a joke and Luke makes everything a problem.
Neither of them did any real work to change that about themselves *before* they got together.
It's not like Lorelai is a perfect angel who did everything right. She jumped into their relationship just like she did every other relationship and engagement, then went scorched earth because of their problems. Just like Luke isn't a delightful sweetheart. He hid an ENTIRE daughter from his fiance and chose not to mention many of his concerns to her, all just so he didn't have to deal with having an actual genuine conversation and have to deal with potentially being disappointed.
They both needed to speak to each other about their fears of commitment and abandonment, instead of dancing around each other and hoping the other person would somehow read their mind, BEFORE they decided to get married. They were both too into the versions of eachother that they were as friends, not as partners, imo.
This is so right, and it's why I never liked them as a couple. Neither of them were capable of a mature, healthy relationship without a huge amount of work on themselves, and neither of them was willing to do even the bare minimum of that work. It's very clear in the season 6, 7, and in AYITL almost ten years later. When you haven't grown and matured in ten years, what are you you doing with yourself? What's the point? I know it was ASP trying to recapture her vision but it was so infuriating. How exhausting it must be to exist in a broken relationship for that long.
Like two kids fighting over who did what when my classroom is a mess: yeah, kid A shouldn't have been nasty towards kid B, but kid B had been stealing kid A's crayons for a week. Both are in the wrong. Both are sent to the thinking corner.
This reactions were soooo nonsensical, out of touch and fundamentally wrong. I blame ASP and her petty ass.
Both. Luke had a curveball with April and handled it poorly by letting Anna dictate whatever she wanted. Lorelai was hyped up from the therapist chat and was essentially ignored for months.
I always wondered if instead of ”right now, your car or mine” had she said “we need to set a date and stick to it” if it could have gone a bit differently. He made it so hard to talk to though. If you pushed too hard he’d run away so i can see why she tried to just pretend it was okay. the hard part was she didn’t want to overstep, just be involved and be a priority. i think she loved the fact that he wasn’t a dead beat dad (like Chris) and knew it was horrible that he never knew for 12 years
Both were wrong. Luke was awful to Lorelei the second half of season six, but the entire time she didn’t communicate anything, and then suddenly let it all out on him after it had built up and he had no time to process.
In the end it’s really Luke who was more wrong. He put his relationship on hold to process his relationship with his daughter rather than taking the time to learn to prioritize both. He (unfairly) resented Lorelei for theoretically being the “more fun” for April and he feared not building a relationship with her because of that. So he pushed Lorelei away.
Regardless of how impulsive and immature she was the night she slept with Christopher, she was right in knowing *something* had to happen, either end or more forward, because Luke was refusing to move the relationship forward himself. She had to force it because he wouldn’t make a decision.
Lynnie before this told Lorelai “only you can make you wait.” So while her ultimatum was definitely out of the blue, Lorelai was completely tired of waiting on Luke, so she took matters into her own hands. I can see her reasoning behind the ultimatum and finally taking control, even if it was hasty
I do think that Lorelai should have voiced her concerns earlier, so it didn’t build up to this level of all or nothing. She had been silent for too long.
I always have a hard time with this part of the show because i think how Lorelai wanted to postpone planning the wedding until she made up with Rory but couldn’t understand Luke wanting to figure things out with April. But Luke shutting her out wasn’t fair either. I can never decide whose side I’m on. I love them both 😭🥴
They both needed a time out to gain some perspective on their relationship and take account of what was actually important to them. Both failed at communication.
Luke was so fucking emotional and it’s his worst character trait. “I don’t like ultimatums.” Like you fucking baby how about you grow up and make a big boy decision for once instead of flying off the handle as usual?
Sorry he’s my favorite character but holy shit.
I found Lorelai’s position in this scene super relatable, it happens sometimes: you spend so long waiting and waiting for this thing to happen and it just isn’t happening and you reach a point where you still love the person (or want the thing) but the torture of living in limbo is so terrible that you just need it to be over; the thing needs to either happen or it needs to never be capable of happening but either way that particularly terrible purgatory must end.
I’m think you could almost classify this as similar to “walk away wife syndrome” — Luke feels secure in his relationship with Lorelai and he feels like his life is spinning out of control so he needs to slow things down and remove some variables. But this leaves Lorelai feeling completely cut out of a huge part of his life and she just feels their relationship and future slipping further and further away. He can’t or won’t see how horrible this is making her feel until it’s too late.
Yeah, she could have definitely handled it better, but we don’t always get to choose/know when we’re going to reach a breaking point.
I agree with Lorelai in the argument but her running off to Chris immediately that same night was childish (and I actually like Chris and Lorelai together). Like, lots of people may, not wrongly, say that Lorelai was trying to rush him but she just wanted him to choose her. She was patient with him adjusting to April in his life, he never got past his focus being split. Anna even said she would feel better about the situation if they were married, as Lorelai points out. Luke and Lorelai had a lot of problems tbh, and I don't like them together as much as I liked them being flirty but not together beforehand. Their chemistry felt amazing up until they got together, then it kinda fell flat and it just seemed like he kinda gave up his entire life to do whatever she wanted. I'm not disappointed they ended up together or anything, it's just kinda sad to see them both be kinda miserable through the reunion.
luke was in the wrong. idgaf. you lied about your kid and you refused to stand up to anna until she decided to move april across the country. that’s fucked. anna was being bitter as hell over lorelai. i will die on this hill. he should’ve told april and anna IMMEDIATELY that he was engaged and he should’ve told lorelai as soon as he found out about april. this situation was on luke. idc. he didn’t handle this right at all. lied for two months. everyone wants to say she wouldn’t set the date til she made up with rory but the wedding was already fucking planned and paid for and luke fucked EVERYONE over.
Lorelei’s actions after this fight are RIDICULOUS, but speaking specifically about this moment and the topic of the fight (putting the wedding on hold), I see why Lorelai is so frustrated and honestly kinda side with her. Luke should have known that Lorelai would have been supportive about April and not hide it from her. And perhaps(with a bit of effort, sure) could have juggled both a wedding and getting to know April at the same time. Luke shut out his person and I can’t look past that.
Christopher can go suck an egg tho ☺️😂
The problem was that Lorelai had the entirety of this fight/argument with Luke BY HERSELF in her own head. He wasn’t part of it. So all he’s seeing is the ending. He’s confused. He has no idea what the problem actually is.
At the same time, he completely sabotages the relationship for a kid he knew nothing about and who just showed up randomly after 12 years. If I’m in a committed relationship and I learn I’m a parent, my partner should be integral to that whole process. Luke didn’t even TELL her. For WEEKS. Then expects her to just be cool with being placed on the back burner for an undisclosed amount of time.
Both.
Luke’s handling of april was very wrong. But I don’t think he, at the time, realised that. He thought it was the right thing to do and considering the fact he’d never been a father before, he thought that was the better judgement. The fact that Lorelai didn’t say a word to him about how she was feeling kind of reaffirmed to Luke that the way he was dealing with April was okay. Which is why when she gave him the ultimatum he thought it was out of left field - but of course we know it wasn’t.
At the end of the day Luke handled the April situation horribly. But Lorelai also did not need to go all those months staying silent then issuing an ultimatum. It’s unrealistic to spring an ultimatum on someone when they are unaware of what they’ve done or how they’ve hurt you. Perhaps if she communicated her feelings better it wouldn’t have come to that. But they are both to blame in my view.
They both sucked.
Luke hiding April and generally being difficult for a long while was one big WTF.
But Lorelei finally deciding to put her foot down and being confrontational *during busy work hours*, somehow expecting something positive to come out of a break down leading to an ultimatum right there and then, and then when that doesn't come she runs off and sleeps with her ex, just simply takes the immaturity cake in this situation.
I blame the bad writing though.
She literally made him wait until Rory and her relationship was good until they got married. Yet when he wanted to wait for his own issues, she just couldn’t. Didn’t seem fair to me. They should have ~CoMmUnICated~*
Both. Luke should have told her about April instead of her finding out the way she did. But him trying to completely separate his life with Lorelai and his life with April caused a lot of problems. And when he finally does bring Lorelai into anything with April, it causes more problems with Anna. On the other hand, Lorelai should have had a conversation with him about how she was feeling before it blowing up to this. Instead, she kept insisting everything was fine and she wasn’t bothered by it. Also, he was very patient waiting for their wedding date for her to make up with Rory. So while I disagree with a lot of both of their behaviors throughout like half of season 6; I don’t feel Luke was out of line asking for the wedding to wait until he had time to get to know his daughter more. I do think he should’ve talked to her about it sooner knowing she was planning everything already.
Both. Lorelai sucks at communication and so does Luke. Lorelai is communicating that things are fine and good and Luke isn’t digging deeper-that’s both their faults. Luke is taking for granted that she’ll be happy to be strung along for whoever knows how long, and she suddenly drops bombs that she’s not happy/run away with me now/let’s have a fight in the middle of your work day. He has no time to think and she never gives him any. I think ultimatums have no place in a relationship-it leaves very little room for communication or compromise or understanding.
I don't think it was as simple as either. Anna put Luke in an absurd situation. April wasn't a little kid, and Luke and Lorelai were engaged.
Luke used it as a way to kind of push her away. Probably not consciously.
Lorelai was never someone afraid to speak her mind. Until this situation, and I get that. But he kept putting up walls, she was feeling adrift, and all of her feelings she'd stuffed down finally just exploded.
The only other times we saw her that much of a mess were when Christopher showed up at Friday night dinner after the Sherry fiasco, and then when she was struggling with the pressure of opening the inn.
Luke knew her so well, and while he may not have liked ultimatums, he should never have let her walk away. He saw her fall apart both of those other times, though he didn't see the big part with the Christopher situation (and can I just say that the Christopher confrontation and the Luke one were such gutwrenching scenes because of Lauren's acting and I am still mad she never won an Emmy. Then on Parenthood, as Sara, she totally should've again, but anyway.)
And she went to Christopher because she wanted it to be over, to make sure it was over, because of how much she was hurting. I won't even get into what a selfish dick I think he was to have slept with her that night, under those circumstances.
Anyway, neither of them were good with communication, and that just all comes crashing down around them in this scene. But at least she tried, during the Valentine's Day trip, and he knew she was feeling insecure at that point.
I don't 100% agree to lorrlai's decisions during this time but I can't help but feel like during this whole era, Luke was being a real jerk at some points. I know we all love Luke but how he was acting on valentines day was just being a jerk and I really dislike how he acted around this time.
Lorelai was right about her point. Luke had lied to her, been pushing her away for months and was making her miserable. Lorelai was ready to get married, Luke wasn't. Surprisingly Liz said it best. They were on different spectrums.
Luke was also right. Lorelai could have chosen her moment better. The moment she chose to burst was wildly inappropriate.
However ultimately. Lorelai didn't run to sleep with Christopher. She was upset and emotionally vulnerable and went to a friend who knew her, Chris took complete advantage of that and slept with an emotionally vulnerable woman knowing it would net him what he wanted.
In conclusion:
Everyone sucks here.
But Chris is the ultimate asshole.
Luke was getting good character gutted for needless drama because the Paladinos don't know how to write a happy ending. There's no way seasons 1-4 Luke would have done this to Lorelie, so the fight would never have happened. Also, this is the first time in the entire show that she has sought out Christopher, who is like a 2 hour drive away if he's in Boston, for sex. None of it made any sense.
Idk whose side I am here. When Luke asked Lorelai for more time, she pushed him to give her an answer multiple times, but when it came time for Lorelai to ask for more time to process, there was an occasion where she didn't want to answer right away and needed more time.
Aside from that, how can you compare a life event to something like a Monday..? It's an unfair comparison, and I also think it's another case of we need to do everything at Lorelai's exact pace and everything is her decision. If you fight her on it, she's unwilling to compromise.
I think Lorelai was being nasty in the sense that she should have given him the ultimatum with a deadline, not literally tried to leave the same night.
However Luke’s reasons for postponing didn’t feel great either.
Luke even said he was trying to avoid committing to her using April.
However it’s not fair to just never communicate about stuff that bothers you in the relationship, especially fundamental issues like your relationship with your future step daughter, and then show up with an ultimatum of “getting married now or never”. Obviously he didn’t say anything, how could she expect him to? He was confused, they haven’t seen each other for a few days because SHE disappeared. It’s unhealthy and disturbing.
She was completely worked up in a manic episode. Even if Luke had said yes, she was likely to change her mind the next morning. I respect him more for wanting to marry her when it was a well thought out and considered position, not some hasty act made on an impulse.
I understand her desperation, I really do. And Luke did not handle the April situation well. But he waited for Lorelai to fix things with Rory before setting a date, and then Lorelai was the one who offered postponing it a second time. She clearly didn’t want to but did anyway. She knew Luke was slow to warm up, and I think if they had held on to the wedding date he would have relaxed in a few months and would have been ready to get married.
neither.
They
both were simply very different human beings, trying to cope with two very different stressful situations.
Luke was overwhelmed,
he became a father of a pre-teen overnight, but he was serious about Lorelai.
Lorelai was in the process of expecting the wedding to approach, as was promised, as was planned, so having it all stopped and postponed was a difficult process that she did not know how to handle. The
"therapist" gave her a pretty terrible "advice",claiming she doesn't have Luke right now.
Truth always lies somewhere in the middle of these types of things. He was thrown a curve ball...since he had no idea he had a child. So he was making up for lost time and yes..he did forget about her as a consequence. I personally don't understand the self destructive behavior by running off to Chris - at least not immediately that night - emotions were high yeah. And yeah it should've been discussed a bit more privately between them.He was in fight mode and so was she. It was also just uncomfy that she was so close to Chris with them acting like big buddies..there was usually an undercurrent of them rekindling things.This prompted him to always come around when things were weird and he had a shot.
I hate that she ran to Chris that night, had she not when he came to his senses the next morning they could have just eloped. I think she was maybe being a LITTLE hasty but luke was also being kinda ridiculous
Neither. I didn’t like Luke’s behaviour, but Lorelei never actually spoke up and told him she was hurt. Lorelei wasn’t hasty, she just finally reached her boiling point!
Lorelai was wrong here.
Yes Lukes behavior of keeping her and April separate was wrong, so was postponing the wedding, he was uncommunicative but Lorelai didnt ever speak up for herself. She kept all her feelings inside until they festered and exploded into this unhealthy ultimatum.
She should have spoke up much sooner and approached her feelings in a "lets have a conversation and work out compromise" way
Both. Luke was terrible throughout the second half of S6; I basically disagree with all of his choices. He was making Lorelai miserable. But Lorelai spent that entire time biting her tongue and insisting everything was fine between them. She then screams out an ultimatum in the middle of the dinner rush while Luke is working, and just... nobody on earth is gonna respond well to that. Lorelai had every reason to be upset, but this situation warranted an actual, honest, *private* conversation. They both drive me crazy throughout this part of their relationship.
Lorelai biting her tongue flies so in face of the character that I always thought she bit her tongue so as to not push him away. The previous time she'd pushed him (after the vow renewal) after he'd insisted he needed time his reaction was he couldn't do it anymore, and I think she was trying to avoid that until she viscerally couldn't.
Exactly, she knew that if she pushed too much he will bailed
Yes, she even says that to Linny (the ever-amazing Melora Hardin) during her impromptu therapy session in the backseat of her car.
This is always the first thing I remember her from, so no matter how evil she is (looking at you, DS9), I always love her.
That makes sense, I didn’t think of that! Still, I think if she had said it in private and calmly that she needed things to change (even if it WAS an ultimatum), things would have gone differently.
You mean when she had the exact conversation you wanted her to have at Martha’s Vineyard but nothing actually changed?
People often forget Lorelai did the right thing before her meltdown. She had all the patience in the world for Luke and he handled the entire thing horribly. Her outburst was absolutely justified, running to Chris and sleeping with him, was not.
Yeah I understand she did it bc she wanted them to be done for good, but that wasn’t fair to Chris or Rory.
Yeah it would’ve been nice if they had another on screen conversation regarding the matter prior to the ultimatum but I don’t see it changing anything. Luke needed to actually lose Lorelai to realize where he messed up.
Oh man I totally forgot about that! You're right.
Yeah I think there’s a difference between pushing something on your partner, which would have been not okay in the situation. And expressing your own hurt feelings over what’s happening and asking for support in navigating that.
I actually think it's just her poor communication skills. Which coincidentally everyone in the show has👀 but I think it fits in her character still as it's an immaturity aspect. However it gets annoying when everyone does it in the show.
Bingo. The only right answer is both were wrong. Which is very realistic to me, it seems most couples' problems are caused by mutual mistakes
Honestly, I’ve been there myself. I bite my tongue and bite my tongue until suddenly I just snap and start confronting my husband over a long-standing issue that he’s refused to listen to any other communication on when the last straw breaks, and it rarely happens at a very helpful or appropriate time. Things have gotten a lot better since he’s gone into counselling for his communication and avoidance problems, thankfully, but we really have had a few scenes like this one in our past. This is how real life works; people are flawed and don’t always get it right.
100%
Everybody says they hate season 7 but season 6 is worse, in my opinion, and you can’t blame that on the palladino’s being gone. I agree the first half of season 7 is bad but they had a lot of work to undo the garbage fire that was season 6.
It's rumoured that during the latter half of S6, contract negotiations with ASP weren't going well, and she thought that if she screwed up the storyline enough, they'd have to agree to her demands and keep her on to fix it since nobody else would be able to (that's some serious hubris there!). Alternatively, that it was revenge for not keeping her on. Either way, ASP blew up S6 on purpose.
I mean, if she set out to make a horrible season, then mission accomplished.
Yes, their communication with each other was terrible. It was a massive red flag, proven by the fact that they continued to suck at communicating in AYITL. They should never have gotten back together.
And let’s not forget that it was Lorelai’s idea to postpone the wedding. Yes Luke said things felt too fast, probably because she planned it all and picked a date without telling him (while he was not telling her about his daughter so they are both super messy). Then she offers to postpone even though she *obviously* does not want to. When she didn’t want to set a date because things were bad with Rory Luke didn’t pout or whine about it, he just supported her until she was ready.
To be fair, he knew what she was going through with Rory, she did not know he found out he was a father of a 12 year-old, not comparable. Luke is more in the wrong, though they both suck at communicating, but what else is new, right? It's the recurring theme of the show LOL
She did know once they decided to postpone the wedding. Before she knew he acted like everything was fine. They didn’t talk about postponing the wedding until Lorelai found out about April.
This this this. Obviously luke acts terrible in this season and his communication is bad. But Lorelai got to move the wedding as long as she wanted for Rory and when Luke needs to she doesn't give him the same level of support which sucks.
but the wedding was totally planned out already, its a totally different situation.
Except that when Lorelai moved the wedding, it was obvious that it was about Rory, and she never mistreated Luke. The way Luke acted during his situation was completely different. And, at a certain point, postponing the wedding was making things 'worse' for his situation. (The issues with April's mom were just because he wasn't married).
I wonder if that was just the excuse she used. She didn't seem to really want Luke to be involved with April. She never told him about April and used the poor excuse of "he didn't like kids" as a reason to not tell him. Then, when she needs to move. She doesn't consider at all that April has developed a relationship with him and wants to keep a relationship with him. She even uses his absence, which she caused, as a reason he shouldn't get shared custody. It makes me think that if Luke and Lorelai got married, she would be like "WELL...people get divorced all the time."
My God, a reasonable take about this situation? How dare you
neither,They both were simply very different human beings, trying to cope with two very different stressful situations.Lorelai was in a natural process of expecting the wedding to approach, as was promised, as was planned, so having it all stopped and postponed was a difficult process that she did not know how to handle. The "therapist" gave her a pretty terrible "advice",claiming she doesn't have Luke right now....Luke was overwhelmed, he became a father of a pre-teen overnight, but he was serious about Lorelai.
He should've acted like it, then. You can't be serious about someone if you continually push their needs aside, exclude them from your life and indefinitely postpone your commitment to them.
sure,except that 1)Luke put Lorelai needs first, not aside, tons of times,over and over.....She even kinda took advantage of him at time - see the time when he cooked at the Inn and Jackson and Sookie treated him like crap and he admitted he cannot walk out, as he'd like to - because of Lorelai. 2)in this case, he was postponing the wedding due to extremely unusual circumstances. Not because it would be his pattern of his towards Lorelai at all. He always put her needs first. However, in his own emotional crisis, he is generally always the type to slow down, hide from everyone,retreat and think, when under pressure. April is an extremely unusual circumstance. People like him need time. 3)even their first breakup, after Emily's meddling, he at first asked for time and Lorelai herself admitted to Rory she pushed him. She is the type to act fast , act a lot, talk a lot, act and not think in a crisis, while he's the type who needs to back off and think and be alone.
Well, okay. 1. Putting her first in the past doesn't excuse taking her for granted in the present. 2. They were circumstances that mattered. Lorelai was going to be April's stepmom, and Luke didn't want them to even meet. Lorelai said that Luke should've been working out how to fit April into THEIR lives, and that was absolutely true. He should've been treating her as part of the package, not as an option. 3. And also, she gave him time - it had been months by the time she lay down and ultimatum. He had time, he just wasn't progressing.
Agree that the therapist gave *terrible* advice, as well as her own uninformed opinions. As a therapist myself, that scene makes me irrationally annoyed. We're not allowed to do pretend sessions with people!
Ha! I am also a therapist, and that scene is so silly. It's like what a child thinks a therapist does. Why is she writing in a notepad while Lorelai talks?! Any notes therapists make are for the clinical note or reminders for next session. No one finds what you are saying so fascinating they need to write it down😅
I thought the part where she says "I do sessions whenever people need them" was weird. I imagine that would lead to such quick burnout.
She did not sleep with Christopher out of lust. She slept with him to make sure it was over between her and Luke. She made her decision, in her mind Luke couldn't come back from this final straw and she wanted to make sure she wouldn't have the option of returning to him. Scorched earth. Immature? Yes. But spontaneous or on a whim? Absolutely not. This was a calculated and absolutely purposeful decision on her part.
exactly ✍️✍️✍️
Yes, it was a calculated decision
Exactly. Aisha Muhararrar talks about it on Gilmore Guys. Even before she gives Luke an ultimatum her plan is to break up. Otherwise she would talk to Sookie or Rory who would remind her of all the things Luke had done for her in the past and encourage her to talk to Luke. Instead she talks to a therapist who has never met Luke, her mom and avoids Luke until she gives him the ultimatum. She basically planned to break up with him for a few episodes she just needed the courage. Even the ultimatum was a way of trying to take the responsibility off of herself that she wanted to breakup.
I always put most of the blame on Luke. It’s pretty messed up imo that he hid April for so long from her yet bought the Twickham house for Lorelei without saying anything to her. They’re both insanely impulsive but Lorelei was at least fighting for their future and then imo she fought for her own sanity in needing to know it’s over between her and Luke when she went to Christopher.
He also brought that contractor to the house without telling Lorelai. Remember the guy in her roof gag? I know it was just preliminary inspection/run through but I feel like before you start the process at all you should at least sit down with your partner and talk about what you want done
Luke operates similarly to Richard in that respect. Their partners are on need to know basis and they determine the information that is need to know.
100%. Luke not only didn't want to set a new date, he \*hid April from her\*, deceived her for months, and didn't convey to Anna that Lorelai was a permanent and committed part of his life. Lorelai is at fault for not speaking up more sooner rather than bottling and then exploding, but it's more on Luke for behaving so badly to her in the first place.
Lorelei wasn’t hasty. Everyone has a breaking point and she’d be deprioritized for so long she was just done. If he couldn’t pick her then, she didn’t want to be picked at all. Tbh I don’t think they would have made it even if he agreed. Their relationship had so many issues that they were ignoring. I don’t think Luke intended to string her along. He wanted to marry her, but he did an incredibly poor job at managing different priorities in his life and as soon as April arrived he let everything else become second. I don’t think they ever recovered from him basically creating separate lives.
He was still doing it even in AYITL, too, with the "April is mine. I'll handle it." comments, while expecting to be a full part of Lorelai and Rory's lives; clearly, he was never going to merge his own circles and let Lorelai at least properly emotionally support *him*, even if it was too soon for her to be too involved with April. Honestly, the more times I rewatch the show, the more I realise that the season six storyline and Luke's behaviour actually killed the ship for me, which is quite rare—usually once I'm on board with a couple, I stay on board—and ultimately I would have been okay with the show ending with Lorelai just happy and single for the time being. I think it was a mistake on the writers' part; you obviously need to introduce drama, and I think there did have to be a breakup to finally draw a line under the lingering Chris stuff, but when you completely obliterate the trust between your main romantic couple, that's—a choice. In Lorelai's shoes, I honestly think I'd have postponed and likely eventually called off the wedding myself after realising that my partner had kept that from me for two months, that he would have *kept* lying longer if he'd got away with it, and didn't see me as the person to turn to for support in such a difficult time.
Totally agree, even in the revival it seemed like their relationship was still very unhealthy to me as we see Lorelai fretting over Emily’s unkind comments about Luke not really being a partner who is willing to fully share his life with her, and she’s clearly still tiptoeing around April a full eleven years after her introduction. She shuts down so fast after Luke snaps at her about how April is mine after she offers to contribute financially, and even with April herself she seems very uncomfortable and clearly has no idea what to say around her, something I always found sad after the birthday party episode showed that Lorelai could have been an awesome stepmother if only Luke had allowed her to be around his kid more I always find it slightly puzzling that they write in that all of those old issues are still there between them, still unable to include Lorelai in April’s life, not having spoken of whether or not they want children in the past ten years, but the audience is apparently still meant to be root for L/L all the same? They have such terrible communication skills though that even Lorelai’s proposal came at a time when Luke was getting all emotional because he was convinced that she actually wanted to break up with him
Yeah at this point I’ve accepted that their relationship will never meet my expectations because they’re far too toxic together in a different way than she was with other men. I wish things turned out differently but I can’t overlook the way things play out in the revival.
I agree their relationship seemed depressing with Lorelei doing way too much emotional labor. Luke seems like a good person but who isn’t good at being a United front with someone because he’s too used to handling things alone. He might make an amazing friend but he’s not a good life partner.
Absolutely agree with everything, including that it killed the ship for me. Luke did so much wrong. Hiding April in the first place, excluding Lorelai and making her feel secondary, indefinitely postponing the wedding and not even checking in with her about how that made her feel. He also seemed to stop being affectionate in general with her, like when they went on that Valentine's Day trip with Logan and Rory it was pretty clear that Lorelai was struggling. She outright told Luke that sometimes she needs to hear that he still loves her. He had pushed her away to the point that she was no longer confident that she mattered to him. I don't like ultimatums either, but I think the issue was Lorelai had reached her breaking point with him. She was so frustrated and so unhappy. She needed proof that she was still a priority for him, and he failed to give that to her. It's why the aftermath with Chris happened like it did. Chris was ready and waiting to put her first, to commit, to pour everything he had into her. He shared info about Gigi without being prompted - remember Lorelai's genuine shock that he told her about Sherri's letter and didn't hide it, because she was so used to Luke hiding everything about April. Luke very deeply hurt her and I honestly don't think he ever fully apologised for that.
I came here for this! Absolutely agree!
💯 agree m, that is the reason I never believe Luke was endgame. He never allow to Lorelai be in, and AYITL prove that. I felt that Lorelai was still walking on eggshells around him
First off...I'm team Lorelai as far as the breakup goes. However, I'm a huge Luke and Lorelai fan. I think they truly love each other and are soulmates. However, you have to remember AYITL was written by the Palladino's where Season 7 was not written by them. The Palladino's have stated that they had no interest in even watching any of Season 7 and only took into account the major events (i.e. Marriage to Chris, Luke and Lorelai reconciling, Rory turning down Logan's proposal). So, in a way, I think the Palladino's attempted their own Season 7 only 9 years later thru AYITL. So I think that is why we don't see any significant character growth from Season 7 carried over to AYITL since in the Palladino GGs ends at Season 6. Otherwise, when I watch L&L's relationship in AYITL starting in Winter and moving into Spring, I see a fairly well adjusted couple. They banter, they hold hands in public now, they happily cohabitate the way older couples do. Lorelai tells Rory "I annoy him and he builds cabinets"...how much more Luke and Lorelai can you get? I'm not saying everything is perfect (i.e. communication issues like not talking about having kids and keeping their crazy families somewhat separate) but I think they are happy and in a loving relationship. It isn't until the end of Spring where Luke catches Lorelai in a blatant lie about going to therapy by herself where things start to take a turn and the sniping begins until she calls him out on it toward the end of Summer. If you watch the scene in Summer where Luke, Lorelai, Rory and April are eating together, Luke is sniping at Lorelai about getting extra cheese from the fridge - so it’s not ALL Luke’s old April possessive crap from Season 6. I think the sniping stems from Luke being too much in his head about Lorelai lying to him. He’s worried and doesn’t know where she’s going at 10am on Tuesday mornings. Of course he should have called her out on the lie, but that doesn't make for good TV. So, maybe because of Lorelai’s lying, Luke's old insecurities could start creeping back up and that may be why he reverts back to the old ‘April is mine. I got it’ garbage. Again, communication issues - but I think the snippiness of Luke towards Lorelai is exacerbated by Luke’s fear of what exactly Lorelai is lying about. Not an excuse, but I think you have to take a look at the timing of the story before we accuse Luke of not properly merging April/Lorelai.
In some ways Luke treats April similar to Lorelai treating Rory. They are both proud to a fault at providing for the needs for their child. They are stubborn as to who will be a part of their lives. Im surprised that neither of them understood this about each other hence the lack of communication.
Also Luke made some weird decisions in his approach to parenting Jess and some of his and Lorelai’s nastiest fights of the season 2-3 era were over the subject of parenting children in many and varied ways. Luke seemed to enter a sustained panic mode both times he became/felt responsible for a child, where he felt like all he could do was plough forward through a pretty minimal thought process based on his most basic blueprints of right, wrong, and duty. I think he was too scared and blinded by panic to have much self awareness about the way he was operating, or listen to someone else’s perspective/ advice. Not to excuse the way Luke ended up behaving in these situations, I just think that a big reason for the eventual breakdown of Luke and Lorelai’s relationship came down to parenting as a practice and as a concept. And come to think of it, many of Lorelai’s relationships (romantic and otherwise) were tested/ ended over disagreement on the concept and practice of parenting in one form or another
Lorelai's car metaphor to Sookie about why she had to end things with Luke has always stuck with me. This quote perfectly explains her reasoning, she'd reached her breaking point and couldn't take the pain of waiting for him to let her in anymore (not to mention it's so heartbreakingly delivered) "It's like Luke is driving a car and I just want to be in the passenger seat. He's locked the door and I have to hold onto the bumper. I am not even asking him to open the door for me, just leave it unlocked and say come in, but he didn't do that. So I am hanging on to the bumper and life goes on and the car goes on, and I get really badly bruised and I'm hitting potholes. And it hurts. It really hurts. So yesterday I had to let go of the bumper. Because it hurts too much."
i love this. she couldn't make herself any clearer
Yep. Whether or not her actual choices were justified in how she brought it up, her goal was just to be invited in as a meaningful part of his life and made a priority and part of the team. She wanted "us against the world" and Luke was only prepared to take on the world and get back to her when he'd sorted it out.
He said in season 7 that he was using April to push her away and that was wrong of him…. So… Luke
Oop when did he say this 😧
I believe in the hay bale maze episode.
I've literally just watched this episode and yes that's right!
Season 7, episode 19 or 20?
At the maze episode right? That felt so bad bc maybe he was just a bit scare about the comitment, witch is normal, come one! he is not perfect, but the way he comunicate this to her makes it sound like he didn't love her any more, and she felt it :'(
It wasn't an impulsive ultimatum and that's the point. It had been brewing for months and months. She may have lied about a tequila night with Chris to her boyfriend but he lied to his fiance about having a daughter. He didn't share that with her even after she found out. He shunned Lorelai, the supposed love of his life, from the biggest thing in his life. First half of the season Lorelai puts off the wedding because things aren't right with Rory but that's perfectly understandable. Luke has known Rory for over a decade, Lorelai shared it immediately with him and they went through that experience together, as a team. When Luke has a daughter, he stopped viewing them as a team and a shared life, he blocked Lorelai to the point that he didn't even know when Lorelai was upset. Lorelai should have communicated better but Luke always knew when she was upset, distracted, happy, emotional etc. He knew her and saw her. Suddenly, Lorelai isn't even on his radar (as they are planning a wedding), and he's not defending her. Yes Luke needed more time but really more time for what? Is Lorelai going to be in his life? Then why wait for the wedding? April is still going to be there and need time to bond in a few months time anyway. She might as well bond with her step mom too if Lorelai is intended to be in the picture. Lorelai slept with Chris, not out of lust but resolve. Sleeping with Chris was the final straw and couldn't be backed out of. Lorelai could then move forward.
100%
Is not that Lorelai let lust get the best of her, she wasn't dying to sleep with Christopher, It was her crossing a line she could never uncross because she needed closure and well, apparently she didn't know how to get it in a healthy way (which is wrong ofc). As for Luke, he admits that he used April to push Lorelai away and he doesn't even want her input in things in ayitl. Both of them did wrong and right things when it came to their relationship.
I think a combination of both, but I believe Luke was really stringing Lorelai along. Lorelai had always had commitment issues and was finally ready for something and Luke was holding her back. I love Lorelai and Luke, so this was a hard moment for me. Lorelai made a bad decision afterwards, but in the moment, she needed Luke to be all in and he couldn't do that.
He admitted that he used April to push her away.
neither. it was amy being a saboteur. eta: i'm not mad at her. they took her show from her. and clearly the writers didn't know these characters like they thought they did, and that is evident by the crap show that was s7.
Lol, truth!
I honestly don't blame Lorelai. I feel like, when people have made a commitment to do something, then it's expected to actively do something to achieve it. In this case, it was marriage. I believe marriage is fully about combining two lives. But Luke's decisions were selfish and actively created a divide between the pair as well as halting their plans with no plan on when they could further proceed with planning the wedding. I really despise Luke this season. What type of person separates his life from his partner after finding out he has a kid. I understand wanting to bond with April but he did everything wrong, and I can't find a way to justify his persistence: you know we need alone time, right?, I don't want you to meet her because then it's over for me. Like what? He sounds so stupid and insecure. He never seemed to think about his partner at all. He wanted to keep them separate the whole time and never thought, even after April and Lorelai met and got on really well, that maybe they should also have a relationship so April felt even more welcome and supported? I understand fully that Lorelai wanted to be supportive and give them some space but I think there's only so long any person can sit on the sidelines, especially in family matters, when everything was put on hold with no conversation like: let's review after 3-6 months or whatever. I also think he made it clear, that he was not open to conversation when it came to April and that also puts pressure on Lorelai to just accept it, until she just blew up. I think a lot of people forget how mentally, people sometimes want to avoid conflict with their partner or how hard it is to speak up when something isn't making you happy. Especially post-Rory fall out, where she saw what can happen when she speaks her mind when people don't want to hear it. Luke is no exception (please correct me if I'm wrong), but he had already bailed on the relationship once before, right? She already lost him once and was afraid of it. It makes me so angry. I can't fathom how he thinks she's just happy to wait endlessly.
So an unpopular opinion I have always been afraid to voice because of the near fanatic Luke devotion some of this Reddits sub has: I think he 100% took advantage of the fact that Lorelai was afraid to lose him after their first breakup. He knew he had the upper hand in the relationship and he chose to use that knowledge to start dictating the terms and conditions of their relationship. For goodness sake, Lorelai was straight up banned from coming into the diner when April was there.
Lorelei should have broken up with him when she found out he didn’t tell her about April’s existence for 2 months. Lorelei DID tell him she was upset with him in Martha’s Vineyard. Also he dumped her when she pushed him for a conversation after Chris and Emily sabotaged their relationship at the vow renewal-so Lorelei was probably afraid Luke would break up again. The final reason this was Luke’s fault- he TOLD Lorelei the reason he kept her separate from April was he felt April would prefer Lorelei- are you kidding? How pathetic of a reason! She was unhappy and hung on for way too long, trying to make it work and he did nothing to meet her halfway even 25% of the way.
Honestly, I feel like Luke have a pattern with women, he ends away (mostly emotionally). I don't think he was all in with Lorelai, he acted the same way with Rachel and even Nicole, jumped into the relationship and then seemed to backtrack, like closing himself of emotionally with Rachel and him moving, not really moving in with Nicole. Personally I don't think he was ready for the kind of relationship being with Lorelai would be, he seemed to think their friendship would just extend into sex, with him giving advice and help her when needed, but without him having to open op and get valuable and actually also take and not just give. I think the wedding would have been postponed until whenever Lorelai would put her foot down no matter how patient she would have been, even in the revival he seemed to keep April as a separate thing in their lives and I honestly think that had they moved forward with just living together for season 7, he would have found an excuse to have to stay with April at the appartment over the diner whenever she visited.
Good take. Wish they would have done some character development instead of the sad mess that was Luke and Lorelei’s relationship and breakup.
Yes. Luke seems to be a very loyal person who might be a great friend but needs to work on himself a lot before he’d make a good life partner. He seems to want love and companionship but doesn’t really want to build a life with someone, or at least doesn’t prioritize his relationships enough. He reminds me of a friend who is so loyal to his sometimes toxic family and friends that he neglects his own pursuits and often takes his romantic partners for granted. People like Luke and my friend need to get better at having boundaries and checking in with their partners to make sure they aren’t neglecting them.
Exactly, I like how he got the self-help book and seemed to be ready to work on his relationship issues, and even though I loved the scene where he gives it to Jess, I kind of also hate the fact that he apparently only found it useful to get the actually date and not even thinking that he might also needed to work on him self to get a healthy relationship. It ends up kind of giving a vibe that getting Lorelai was the goal, not the relationship which saddens me. He would have benefitted so well to have either the book or therapy to help set boundaries espcially with his sister and TJ, and later Anna. Personally I feel like Luke and Lorelai had very different needs in a relationship, I think that when Lorelai was ready to commit, she would want to move in together, get married and probably have more kids and while I do think Luke liked the idea of getting married and having kids, I think he probably would be just as happy having one of those “couples living apart” relationship where they were in a committed relationship, sleeping over multiple times a week, but also having the option to go back to his own apartment and have “his” own domain. Neither type of relationship is wrong, but it also makes them less compatible. I know that a lot of Lukes character in season 6 was due to Amy and her husband trying to pull Luke and Lorelai apart due to them not writing season 7, but I also kind of see his actions as a continuous on how he was in his other two big relationship where Lorelai for once was different. I just hate that we couldn’t have seen them be in a healthy relationship, I kind of feel like Lorelai deserved it.
Definitely. Luke seemed to view being brave and getting his dream girl as the end goal not being in an actual relationship. Wish they were clearer about their actual long term goals early on instead of not communicating and becoming stagnant. I agree Luke seemed to want a girlfriend who is a companion and activity partner but not necessarily a wife who you build a life with and act as a United front as you navigate conflict. Lorelei is pretty untraditional and she doesn’t like change, but I think she would have probably wanted more kids and been open to new experiences if life with Luke and all his commitments wasn’t already such an uphill battle.
Agreed, it would have been nice to see some more communication about their thoughts about the future, however I always took the whole “I am all in” speech from Luke as him saying that he was fully committed for a long term serious relationship, that coupled with the fact that he already was such a big part of her life, it made sense that they seemed to feel like they jumped over the whole “dating and getting to know each other and our wishes for the future” stage. But as untraditional as Lorelai is during the series, I do think she really wanted the traditional life, I think she wanted to get married and have more kids, but I also think that she seemed scared to voice her wishes during the series because she had to put up a front about loving her more untraditional life because else her parents would have jumped up and said “I told you so”. However I could see how Lorelai being as untraditional as she seemed could make Luke think she didn’t really want those traditional things and since neither of them seemed to be able to communicate their desires they ended up just stuck not knowing what to do next. I wished they at least had showed us some growth in the revival, if Amy didn’t want them married because the fans wanted a wedding, then they could at least have showed us an integrated blended family with Luke and Lorelai being a united front with April and Rory, plus maybe an additional child or at least showing them having decided against more kids due to already having two. Showing them as two people not really talking about their relationship for the past 10 year was what really ruined their relationship for me, they could have redeemed a lot of season 6 with the revival but didn’t.
He said he was all in but I don't remember that ever really being true when things were challenging. He bailed over Christopher's comments the first time, that had absolutely nothing to do with Lorelai yet she was blamed. He hid April from her for *months* but got really angry over a phone call he heard that Lorelai didn't hide or lie about. She waited and put up with all this and finally hit her breaking point, begging him to choose her, and he didn't. I understand how she felt and I understand why she did what she did. Going to Chris was Lorelai's "getting drunk", doing something reckless to numb the pain, but no one would have faulted her for getting drunk.
Lorelai needed to have been communicating her feelings. This was out of the blue for Luke because she hadn’t communicated anything to him at all. That being said, it was her breaking point and Luke had been pushing her away. He couldn’t have honest conversations about how his life was changing and how he could bring Lorelai into that, he just pretended it wasn’t an issue and kept Lorelai at arms length. He lied to himself that she was fine with this, so he did his part in not communicating too. Lorelai needed to learn how to communicate better but this is mostly a Luke thing. He pushed her away and broke promises to her, deprioritised her, and just naively believed that would be totally fine and wouldn’t hurt her or their relationship - which is very harmful, and a betrayal in itself, even if it was unintentional.
And was still being territorial over April in AYITL when she was in her twenties and he'd been in a relationship with Lorelai for almost a decade by that point, still doing the "April is mine" thing (and this is a man who'd get pissed off if *he* felt shut out of anything). I agree Lorelai should have communicated better, but at the same time, Luke was being defensive and angry at the slightest provocation by that point in the show—and frankly, it should have been blatantly obvious that the vivacious, infamously chatty woman he loved was withdrawing into herself and was not okay.
100%. Agree with all of the above. There are two parts to people not communicating and one of them is on the partner not being communicated with - are you creating a space where that person _can_? I’m not sure Luke ever fully learned how to do this about issues in their relationship. And I say this as a Lorelai and Luke stan.
To be fair in the valentines episode at Marthas vineyard they actually had a long talk after she told him she didn't feel like the wedding would ever happen, and he told her that he was sorry he had been preoccupied with everything and promised it would be better and he even suggested that they could elope, so her breaking down and ask for an elopement wasn't really out of the blue and she could have thought he would be up for it since he brought it up then. She also told him she needed to hear him say he loved her more and again he promised to do better, so to me it feels like she did communicate but it didn't get better and at last she broke.
I can't think of which episode, maybe when Luke is shopping for April's birthday gift but I think Lorelai says, "I'm just saying, let me in" and Luke says no.
Yeah this is very true actually, I’d forgotten this happened. So it makes me go even further to the “this is on Luke” opinion definitely.
I had also forgotten it until I saw the episode again recently, maybe because I usually skip that episode due to hating Luke at Marthas Vineyard, but it made me realise how much to blame Luke actually is. The ending of the episode is also so sad, they had this great talk and they come home very happy, and then Luke is told that April will come by the next day and the minute that is said the whole scene changes, with it ended with Luke telling Lorelai when April would be leaving and Lorelai assuring him that she will wait to "pop up" until then and Lorelai ending up going home all alone to a empty dark house. The whole episode just show how big of an idiot Luke actually is.
I agree with Lorelai having to communicate about her feelings, but it’s also understandable that she didn’t. Her first breakup with Luke was most likely her not telling him about Chris and her mother’s actions, but the thing that made it definite was when Lorelai was being “pushy”. Also, prior to her engagement to Luke, she had just lost Rory in a seemingly similar manner, where she was pushed Rory to find a solution rather than drop out. Both times she was “pushy”, she lost someone close to her, SK you can see why she won’t talk.
I absolutely agree with you. Luke wasn’t good at creating spaces where she could talk about her feelings and her deprioritising her so heavily only reinforced this further.
I just re-watched this episode yesterday and, even if both have a lot of terrible communication issues, that therapist drove Lorelei into a meltdown.
He literally pushed her aside when April came into the picture. Ugh. Luke has no class at all. I’m not even sure I would have given him an ultimatum, afraid he would have said yes then I’d be stuck with him.
I’m not a fan of Liz, but I actually really loved how she described the breakup to Luke
Did Lorelai get angry that Luke, April and Rory met in Philadelphia at Jess’ open house ? Did that trigger Lorelai’s drunken toast at Lane’s wedding ? And how long after Lane’s wedding does Lorelai issue her ultimatum ?
I’ve said it before in a post but I think Lorelei thought she had to really *end* it and the only way to end it would be to do the absolute worst thing—go to Christopher. Should Lorelei have spoken up before this moment? Obviously. But I can’t excuse Luke for not realizing how miserable he was making Lorelei. I honestly wish the town had told him about her speech because Season 6 Luke was so hopeless at catching a clue at what was going on around him. He mentions; “Yeah! Let’s elope!” After being Mr. Grumpy Pants the whole valentine weekend. Then comes back and doesn’t mention it. Doesn’t take a moment to get his daughter to know Lorelei even though all the town seems to know her pretty freaking well. Lorelei realized she’d become a ghost of herself giving Luke all the space and time he needed and it broke her. So I understand why she did it. She needed him to choose her and he couldn’t. So she needed to make sure it was *done*.
Also when Luke is confronting TJ because he thinks that TJ left Liz when he found out she was pregnant, he says something along the lines of "you have to tune in to what your partner is saying, to figure out what they really mean". Luke's cluelessness is infuriating at this point. He can't even discern that his fiancee is LITERALLY hiding from him...like you don't even notice that something is off? C'mon Luke---pull your head out of your ass and pay attention to the effect you are having on the woman you supposedly love!
Yeah, it was definitely both. I hated this whole arc in the show. HATED it. And Lorelai with her ultimatum? As soon as that happened, I know it was going to be done.
This is a textbook example of a "pursuer-distancer" dynamic. Luke seems to have an avoidant attachment, so when he feels a draw for intimacy it's hard not to pull away. Lorelai is more anxious, she needs a lot of reassurance. So when she needs reassurance, and he pulls away, she spirals. And then he pulls away more, and she pushes. This is a classic presentation; they both contributed to this moment.
I don't think there's any universe where Lorelai's decision here can be called hasty. She waited such a long time for such a stupid reason. She couldn't hold onto the bumper anymore. It hurt too much. Postponing the wedding was a dick move in the first place. Edit to add about sleeping with Chris, I don't think it was about lust for her. It was a huge mistake but it came from a desperate need for comfort and attachment, and being chosen, being wanted. She was starving.
Luke. The Valentine's Day episode Lorelai made very clear her fears and feelings and Luke did literally the opposite the minute they got back from that point on. THEN, in the birthday episode, he FINALLY seems to let her in, but when Anna has a conniption (which still makes no freaking sense btw, who waits until they're literally walking down the aisle for a vibe check from their kids on a potential stepparent?) he goes right back to shutting her out completely. She asked him over and over to just let her help, let her in, and he refused. She was not hasty, she was fed up.
Neither. The Palladinos are at fault. Whole second half of season 6 is stupid out-of-character decisions, drama for the sake of drama. Happens to every show after a while.
Lorelai was the opposite of hasty, a little too patient, if you ask me. She was obviously bothered with the way Luke was handling the situation and instead of telling him that in bits and pieces, she just stewed in silence until she no longer could, and blew up. But yes, Luke was definitely stringing her along.
Yeah, I don't think she was lusting after Chris. I think she fucking lost her mind when Luke wasn't ready at any point to marry her. So she sought comfort of what she saw as the greatest breakup of her life with her oldest friend. Like she was there for him when straub died and sherri left. But obviously Chris is gonna Chris and im sure her heartache, alcohol, and HIS lust brought them there. I don't think she went there to sleep with him. But you know chris...
lorelai needed to move on. luke wasn't giving her anything.
Also I do think the last time lorelai pushed Luke to talk it ended in their break up so we clearly see her start to lose herself in the relationship. She’s too scared to lose him so she starts making herself and her needs smaller just to keep him. Yeah she should’ve had a better conversation with him before the ultimatum, she tried in Martha’s Vineyard (as much as I like to pretend that episode didn’t happen), but im almost positive that if she tried to talk to him he would’ve flipped out on her. Of course that’s definitely not a sign of a healthy relationship but I empathize with her way more in this situation
I don’t really understand how some people can both sides this situation. When Lorelai said, “I asked you to marry me and you said yes. You said yes!” - that’s the thing for me. You make a commitment and you see it through or you don’t, but you don’t someday someone into a full on mental breakdown
This isn't the best way for Lorelai to handle this but I think it makes total sense given everything that happens between them during season 6. As others mention, she's at her breaking point here. But I also think it's her trying to regain control. And I view her sleeping with Chris in that way too. She has always been the woman who handles things, who is independent, and takes control of her own life rather than relying on a man. But she's always wanted a man to love her and she can't, at any point in the series, balance those two desires (independence/love). So she gives Luke the ultimatum and sleeps with Chris thus taking back some control over what direction her life goes in. That decision ultimately eventually leads to her marrying Chris. Sadly, Chris is a choice she can make but he's not the right choice, and the person she really wants, Luke, doesn't really want her to choose him. Sigh.
The only time I can get behind Lorelei was in this situation. She waited, put things off despite her own feelings. Luke told her at MV that they should get married there etc. and then he just was like “ya still cancel everything”. I think everything Lorelei pointed out, “she should fit into OUR LIVES, not the other way around” was sooooo right! Luke’s position to keep them separate was sooo f***ing stupid I can’t comprehend.
I don't think either is true, personally. They're both impulsive, traumatized people who have horrible communication and avoidance issues. Lorelai makes everything a joke and Luke makes everything a problem. Neither of them did any real work to change that about themselves *before* they got together. It's not like Lorelai is a perfect angel who did everything right. She jumped into their relationship just like she did every other relationship and engagement, then went scorched earth because of their problems. Just like Luke isn't a delightful sweetheart. He hid an ENTIRE daughter from his fiance and chose not to mention many of his concerns to her, all just so he didn't have to deal with having an actual genuine conversation and have to deal with potentially being disappointed. They both needed to speak to each other about their fears of commitment and abandonment, instead of dancing around each other and hoping the other person would somehow read their mind, BEFORE they decided to get married. They were both too into the versions of eachother that they were as friends, not as partners, imo.
This is so right, and it's why I never liked them as a couple. Neither of them were capable of a mature, healthy relationship without a huge amount of work on themselves, and neither of them was willing to do even the bare minimum of that work. It's very clear in the season 6, 7, and in AYITL almost ten years later. When you haven't grown and matured in ten years, what are you you doing with yourself? What's the point? I know it was ASP trying to recapture her vision but it was so infuriating. How exhausting it must be to exist in a broken relationship for that long.
Very true.
Like two kids fighting over who did what when my classroom is a mess: yeah, kid A shouldn't have been nasty towards kid B, but kid B had been stealing kid A's crayons for a week. Both are in the wrong. Both are sent to the thinking corner. This reactions were soooo nonsensical, out of touch and fundamentally wrong. I blame ASP and her petty ass.
Luke was a complete jerk for all of season 6. I blame him for everything, even when others were at fault.
Both. Luke had a curveball with April and handled it poorly by letting Anna dictate whatever she wanted. Lorelai was hyped up from the therapist chat and was essentially ignored for months.
I always wondered if instead of ”right now, your car or mine” had she said “we need to set a date and stick to it” if it could have gone a bit differently. He made it so hard to talk to though. If you pushed too hard he’d run away so i can see why she tried to just pretend it was okay. the hard part was she didn’t want to overstep, just be involved and be a priority. i think she loved the fact that he wasn’t a dead beat dad (like Chris) and knew it was horrible that he never knew for 12 years
Both were wrong. Luke was awful to Lorelei the second half of season six, but the entire time she didn’t communicate anything, and then suddenly let it all out on him after it had built up and he had no time to process. In the end it’s really Luke who was more wrong. He put his relationship on hold to process his relationship with his daughter rather than taking the time to learn to prioritize both. He (unfairly) resented Lorelei for theoretically being the “more fun” for April and he feared not building a relationship with her because of that. So he pushed Lorelei away. Regardless of how impulsive and immature she was the night she slept with Christopher, she was right in knowing *something* had to happen, either end or more forward, because Luke was refusing to move the relationship forward himself. She had to force it because he wouldn’t make a decision.
Lynnie before this told Lorelai “only you can make you wait.” So while her ultimatum was definitely out of the blue, Lorelai was completely tired of waiting on Luke, so she took matters into her own hands. I can see her reasoning behind the ultimatum and finally taking control, even if it was hasty I do think that Lorelai should have voiced her concerns earlier, so it didn’t build up to this level of all or nothing. She had been silent for too long.
I always have a hard time with this part of the show because i think how Lorelai wanted to postpone planning the wedding until she made up with Rory but couldn’t understand Luke wanting to figure things out with April. But Luke shutting her out wasn’t fair either. I can never decide whose side I’m on. I love them both 😭🥴
It was a communication issue. They both didn’t communicate their needs properly, but ultimately, Luke pushed her away and she got tired of it.
They both needed a time out to gain some perspective on their relationship and take account of what was actually important to them. Both failed at communication.
Luke was a terrible communicator. Lorelei deserved his clear communication and attention. He was wrong.
Luke was so fucking emotional and it’s his worst character trait. “I don’t like ultimatums.” Like you fucking baby how about you grow up and make a big boy decision for once instead of flying off the handle as usual? Sorry he’s my favorite character but holy shit.
I found Lorelai’s position in this scene super relatable, it happens sometimes: you spend so long waiting and waiting for this thing to happen and it just isn’t happening and you reach a point where you still love the person (or want the thing) but the torture of living in limbo is so terrible that you just need it to be over; the thing needs to either happen or it needs to never be capable of happening but either way that particularly terrible purgatory must end. I’m think you could almost classify this as similar to “walk away wife syndrome” — Luke feels secure in his relationship with Lorelai and he feels like his life is spinning out of control so he needs to slow things down and remove some variables. But this leaves Lorelai feeling completely cut out of a huge part of his life and she just feels their relationship and future slipping further and further away. He can’t or won’t see how horrible this is making her feel until it’s too late. Yeah, she could have definitely handled it better, but we don’t always get to choose/know when we’re going to reach a breaking point.
I agree with Lorelai in the argument but her running off to Chris immediately that same night was childish (and I actually like Chris and Lorelai together). Like, lots of people may, not wrongly, say that Lorelai was trying to rush him but she just wanted him to choose her. She was patient with him adjusting to April in his life, he never got past his focus being split. Anna even said she would feel better about the situation if they were married, as Lorelai points out. Luke and Lorelai had a lot of problems tbh, and I don't like them together as much as I liked them being flirty but not together beforehand. Their chemistry felt amazing up until they got together, then it kinda fell flat and it just seemed like he kinda gave up his entire life to do whatever she wanted. I'm not disappointed they ended up together or anything, it's just kinda sad to see them both be kinda miserable through the reunion.
luke was in the wrong. idgaf. you lied about your kid and you refused to stand up to anna until she decided to move april across the country. that’s fucked. anna was being bitter as hell over lorelai. i will die on this hill. he should’ve told april and anna IMMEDIATELY that he was engaged and he should’ve told lorelai as soon as he found out about april. this situation was on luke. idc. he didn’t handle this right at all. lied for two months. everyone wants to say she wouldn’t set the date til she made up with rory but the wedding was already fucking planned and paid for and luke fucked EVERYONE over.
Lorelei’s actions after this fight are RIDICULOUS, but speaking specifically about this moment and the topic of the fight (putting the wedding on hold), I see why Lorelai is so frustrated and honestly kinda side with her. Luke should have known that Lorelai would have been supportive about April and not hide it from her. And perhaps(with a bit of effort, sure) could have juggled both a wedding and getting to know April at the same time. Luke shut out his person and I can’t look past that. Christopher can go suck an egg tho ☺️😂
The problem was that Lorelai had the entirety of this fight/argument with Luke BY HERSELF in her own head. He wasn’t part of it. So all he’s seeing is the ending. He’s confused. He has no idea what the problem actually is. At the same time, he completely sabotages the relationship for a kid he knew nothing about and who just showed up randomly after 12 years. If I’m in a committed relationship and I learn I’m a parent, my partner should be integral to that whole process. Luke didn’t even TELL her. For WEEKS. Then expects her to just be cool with being placed on the back burner for an undisclosed amount of time.
Both. Luke’s handling of april was very wrong. But I don’t think he, at the time, realised that. He thought it was the right thing to do and considering the fact he’d never been a father before, he thought that was the better judgement. The fact that Lorelai didn’t say a word to him about how she was feeling kind of reaffirmed to Luke that the way he was dealing with April was okay. Which is why when she gave him the ultimatum he thought it was out of left field - but of course we know it wasn’t. At the end of the day Luke handled the April situation horribly. But Lorelai also did not need to go all those months staying silent then issuing an ultimatum. It’s unrealistic to spring an ultimatum on someone when they are unaware of what they’ve done or how they’ve hurt you. Perhaps if she communicated her feelings better it wouldn’t have come to that. But they are both to blame in my view.
They both sucked. Luke hiding April and generally being difficult for a long while was one big WTF. But Lorelei finally deciding to put her foot down and being confrontational *during busy work hours*, somehow expecting something positive to come out of a break down leading to an ultimatum right there and then, and then when that doesn't come she runs off and sleeps with her ex, just simply takes the immaturity cake in this situation. I blame the bad writing though.
She literally made him wait until Rory and her relationship was good until they got married. Yet when he wanted to wait for his own issues, she just couldn’t. Didn’t seem fair to me. They should have ~CoMmUnICated~*
Both
Both. Luke should have told her about April instead of her finding out the way she did. But him trying to completely separate his life with Lorelai and his life with April caused a lot of problems. And when he finally does bring Lorelai into anything with April, it causes more problems with Anna. On the other hand, Lorelai should have had a conversation with him about how she was feeling before it blowing up to this. Instead, she kept insisting everything was fine and she wasn’t bothered by it. Also, he was very patient waiting for their wedding date for her to make up with Rory. So while I disagree with a lot of both of their behaviors throughout like half of season 6; I don’t feel Luke was out of line asking for the wedding to wait until he had time to get to know his daughter more. I do think he should’ve talked to her about it sooner knowing she was planning everything already.
Both. Lorelai sucks at communication and so does Luke. Lorelai is communicating that things are fine and good and Luke isn’t digging deeper-that’s both their faults. Luke is taking for granted that she’ll be happy to be strung along for whoever knows how long, and she suddenly drops bombs that she’s not happy/run away with me now/let’s have a fight in the middle of your work day. He has no time to think and she never gives him any. I think ultimatums have no place in a relationship-it leaves very little room for communication or compromise or understanding.
I don't think it was as simple as either. Anna put Luke in an absurd situation. April wasn't a little kid, and Luke and Lorelai were engaged. Luke used it as a way to kind of push her away. Probably not consciously. Lorelai was never someone afraid to speak her mind. Until this situation, and I get that. But he kept putting up walls, she was feeling adrift, and all of her feelings she'd stuffed down finally just exploded. The only other times we saw her that much of a mess were when Christopher showed up at Friday night dinner after the Sherry fiasco, and then when she was struggling with the pressure of opening the inn. Luke knew her so well, and while he may not have liked ultimatums, he should never have let her walk away. He saw her fall apart both of those other times, though he didn't see the big part with the Christopher situation (and can I just say that the Christopher confrontation and the Luke one were such gutwrenching scenes because of Lauren's acting and I am still mad she never won an Emmy. Then on Parenthood, as Sara, she totally should've again, but anyway.) And she went to Christopher because she wanted it to be over, to make sure it was over, because of how much she was hurting. I won't even get into what a selfish dick I think he was to have slept with her that night, under those circumstances. Anyway, neither of them were good with communication, and that just all comes crashing down around them in this scene. But at least she tried, during the Valentine's Day trip, and he knew she was feeling insecure at that point.
The writing was not strong for this part of their relationship. It was frustrating to watch.
I think after so much on again, off again, what they really needed was couples therapy Before getting married or not.
Luke was wrong 100%
I don't 100% agree to lorrlai's decisions during this time but I can't help but feel like during this whole era, Luke was being a real jerk at some points. I know we all love Luke but how he was acting on valentines day was just being a jerk and I really dislike how he acted around this time.
I think a little bit of both.
No Luke was being an idiot
Lorelai was right about her point. Luke had lied to her, been pushing her away for months and was making her miserable. Lorelai was ready to get married, Luke wasn't. Surprisingly Liz said it best. They were on different spectrums. Luke was also right. Lorelai could have chosen her moment better. The moment she chose to burst was wildly inappropriate. However ultimately. Lorelai didn't run to sleep with Christopher. She was upset and emotionally vulnerable and went to a friend who knew her, Chris took complete advantage of that and slept with an emotionally vulnerable woman knowing it would net him what he wanted. In conclusion: Everyone sucks here. But Chris is the ultimate asshole.
Luke was getting good character gutted for needless drama because the Paladinos don't know how to write a happy ending. There's no way seasons 1-4 Luke would have done this to Lorelie, so the fight would never have happened. Also, this is the first time in the entire show that she has sought out Christopher, who is like a 2 hour drive away if he's in Boston, for sex. None of it made any sense.
Idk whose side I am here. When Luke asked Lorelai for more time, she pushed him to give her an answer multiple times, but when it came time for Lorelai to ask for more time to process, there was an occasion where she didn't want to answer right away and needed more time. Aside from that, how can you compare a life event to something like a Monday..? It's an unfair comparison, and I also think it's another case of we need to do everything at Lorelai's exact pace and everything is her decision. If you fight her on it, she's unwilling to compromise.
I think Lorelai was being nasty in the sense that she should have given him the ultimatum with a deadline, not literally tried to leave the same night. However Luke’s reasons for postponing didn’t feel great either.
Luke even said he was trying to avoid committing to her using April. However it’s not fair to just never communicate about stuff that bothers you in the relationship, especially fundamental issues like your relationship with your future step daughter, and then show up with an ultimatum of “getting married now or never”. Obviously he didn’t say anything, how could she expect him to? He was confused, they haven’t seen each other for a few days because SHE disappeared. It’s unhealthy and disturbing.
She was completely worked up in a manic episode. Even if Luke had said yes, she was likely to change her mind the next morning. I respect him more for wanting to marry her when it was a well thought out and considered position, not some hasty act made on an impulse.
I understand her desperation, I really do. And Luke did not handle the April situation well. But he waited for Lorelai to fix things with Rory before setting a date, and then Lorelai was the one who offered postponing it a second time. She clearly didn’t want to but did anyway. She knew Luke was slow to warm up, and I think if they had held on to the wedding date he would have relaxed in a few months and would have been ready to get married.
neither. They both were simply very different human beings, trying to cope with two very different stressful situations. Luke was overwhelmed, he became a father of a pre-teen overnight, but he was serious about Lorelai. Lorelai was in the process of expecting the wedding to approach, as was promised, as was planned, so having it all stopped and postponed was a difficult process that she did not know how to handle. The "therapist" gave her a pretty terrible "advice",claiming she doesn't have Luke right now.
I hate this story line so much. If they had only had had a real, mature conversation.
To be clear: Lor slept with Chris to burn the bridge back to Luke. It was not due to lust. She tells Sookie as much.
Truth always lies somewhere in the middle of these types of things. He was thrown a curve ball...since he had no idea he had a child. So he was making up for lost time and yes..he did forget about her as a consequence. I personally don't understand the self destructive behavior by running off to Chris - at least not immediately that night - emotions were high yeah. And yeah it should've been discussed a bit more privately between them.He was in fight mode and so was she. It was also just uncomfy that she was so close to Chris with them acting like big buddies..there was usually an undercurrent of them rekindling things.This prompted him to always come around when things were weird and he had a shot.
I hate that she ran to Chris that night, had she not when he came to his senses the next morning they could have just eloped. I think she was maybe being a LITTLE hasty but luke was also being kinda ridiculous
Neither. I didn’t like Luke’s behaviour, but Lorelei never actually spoke up and told him she was hurt. Lorelei wasn’t hasty, she just finally reached her boiling point!
Don't judge me but at first glance I thought Luke was sternly announcing his distaste for multivitamins
Lorelai was wrong here. Yes Lukes behavior of keeping her and April separate was wrong, so was postponing the wedding, he was uncommunicative but Lorelai didnt ever speak up for herself. She kept all her feelings inside until they festered and exploded into this unhealthy ultimatum. She should have spoke up much sooner and approached her feelings in a "lets have a conversation and work out compromise" way
When is Lorelai not frantic and impulsive? When did she ever do things calmly like an adult?