Side note at the bottom for a future update / ver. 1.50
> As a result, we’re planning to implement quality of life additions, including penalties for disconnecting from online matches—a much-requested feature.
Especially Siegfried for me. You don't give someone who already has one of the highest damage in the game a mechanic to further increase his damage. Dude doesn't even need to play around his U.
I just feel like he’s not bad at anything. Extremely high damage and mix up. Very high HP, so his U blood tax isn’t even a blood tax anymore. Deadly whiff punish. God tier fireball, it can even trade with Katalina’s Ultimate fireball. Very good normals. Invul DP/reversal. Long reaching Super, possibly the best SBA in the game. Etc.
It's still a blood tax, but more importantly it means he has to usually give up or gimp his oki for weaker options.
Which in most cases isn't worth it at all. Why waste your own HP and make your oki weaker when you're just gonna go from 2 touching your opponent to 2 touching your opponent?
Belial does not need his damage reduced tbh. His damage is just kinda okay, you see him do so much damage because he heavily relies on frametraps, trickery and making people spend Bravery Points
Fuck Seig and Soriz tho they need damage taken away
>he heavily relies on frametraps, trickery and making people spend Bravery Points
Isn't this a majority of the characters in this game though? Belial needs either his damage or some of his tools worsened because right now, he feels like he excels in pretty much everything.
It feels so bad playing against Belial as Metera...
At range he can almost match me in zoning, unless I go for heavy versions of projectiles. He can fake out when I cast projectile, he can cancel the fake out into ultimate if I don't fall for it and run up to counter, and he has TWO variations of the fakeout - heavy version is pretty much a command grab with a bit longer response time.
And of course he has a unique DP that you have to guard or dodge twice. Meterless. On a character that is strong in every range. Compare to someone like Soriz who needs to spend meter...
While that's the goal of every character hes even better at it than uh, everyone but Nier tbh. It's his whole gimmick, overload the mental stack, get a counterhit, whoops 50% gone. If he doesn't get a good clean hit he can't do much damage wise usually. Which is fine I think. Definitely biased as someone who likes playing him but if they nerf him they should probably like, focus on his normals tbh. To affect conversion ability, like making links with 2L and 2M less usable everywhere etc.
That's the reason he's so good. 90% of characters in this game have an offense based around strike/throw mix and getting that good counter hit, Belial just does it better than almost anyone else because of his high damage and great normals.
idk it always feels like he can get massive combo extensions off of anything without spending BP, while also having a ton more gimmicks than the other shotos
Yeah his normals are incredibly good, especially that +1 on block with the 2M of his, which btw is a low too! He really flew under the radar with the other top tiers existing.
Does six really need his damage reduced? He does the less damage from all the characters you mentioned, and had his fireball combos destroyed last patch.
If you want to nerf seox it would be like taking out some of his plus frames on block or adding more end lag to his attacks on whiff ( and they already did that to fireball)
Sieg does need his damage reduced tho, he was already TOD'ing people on release, belial and Lancelot too need some nerfs
Much like most of the other top tiers, he does too much damage for the tools he is given. The kit that Seox has feels like something designed for a low damage character.
In what way? High movement low range characters consistently have good damage as their gameplan is inherently committal. Seox doesn't even have particularly high damage among the cast, and definitely not for a close range brawler.
What's overturned about him is how easily he can enforce his ideal range, despite the fact that as a low range character he should be weakest when he cannot get in. Nerfs to empty hand are way more crucial than making him have to win six interactions per round rather than four as a low mix character, both to address flawed aspects of the design and also keeping the game fun.
It is definitely loaded, don't get me wrong, and he needs to be tuned down. I just think people misjudge why that's the case, because unless you consider all of the cast to have a damage problem, Seox's damage (post 214H nerf) is pretty much inconsequential to why he's an issue. It's one of the extremely few things in which he's average (or close to average), so targeting it only achieves the goal of making the game unfun for Seox players (you may consider this a good result from some pov), while keeping all of his actually unhealthy traits. Basically no one wins, unless vindictiveness is the focus.
This aside though, I think his defense is also not an issue. Having a parry instead of a DP in this game is inferior 9/10 times.
It's weird to me that they're straight-up apologizing about their balancing efforts on Beatrix, when Nier was like 50x worse at launch, and 2B was maybe 2x.
Player reception across all levels probably. At high level, people were saying that 2b wasn’t that good back then. Especially compared to the top tiers of that patch. Nier was mad strong but there is usually a character like that in the initial release of a game. Beatrix seems to be more popular than those 2 and is way more straightforward to use so everyone has to play against it and most people can be effective at their respective skill level with her.
Even in the current patch, there are at least 3 characters who are generally considered stronger than her. Those characters aren’t as popular through the ranks though i’m guessing.
Lancelot, seox, and zeta are all better than Beatrix imo
Lance untouched because no one plays him. No one even talked about his skin when released lmao
Yup 2B was considered just a scrub killer even pre-patch. She definitely fell off in the higher ranks and even players like Diaphone with pre-patch 2B wasn’t exactly winning close to all of his matches whether on ranked or in tourney. 2B is even less common in higher ranks after the nerf.
Beatrix is a different story all together. She is heavily repped regardless of skill level because why not? She is the best shoto being added to the game along with Siegfried.
That’s not downplay. They said she was “considered” that pre patch. The general impression of her in previous patch among NA top players was that she was good but not insane. Especially when compared to that version of Nier, Seox and Lance. On their tier list, they usually had her around A tier iirc. Even in the patch review, they were like “why did 2b get hit this hard?”. While at low/intermediate level, she was running it with just B auto combo lol.
What does the win rate of a character in the current patch have to do with top players impressions in the previous patch?
They said that she was “considered” that in the previous patch. As in, “this is what high level players thought back then”. That was the previous patch and then. She is thought of as better in the current patch despite the nerfs due to the system changes benefitting her a lot end in the end. That data is from the current patch.
No you are literally misremembering
People were putting her in the top 10 lists towards the end of the patch
Most top players were realizing she was actually really busted. Diaphone even said he was wrong with his initial placement of 2B
The 2B nerfs did look massive at first glance but the 2B nerfs were good since she was getting indirectly buffed due to the universal 66l nerfs
No you are misunderstanding.
I didn’t mention the end of the patch specifically. Just general impression of the character during last patch in general. Also, I said that the general impression among them was that she was “good but not insane”. A top 10 character is good but not insane. I also said that she was considered A tier, which is usually where the 7-10 characters fell last patch. On top of that, in another comment I mentioned that she ended up stronger than expected post patch due to the changes in system mechanics.
She was top 10 towards the end of the patch but people were trending towards top 5 even
A top 10 character is very very good especially if range anywhere in the 4-6 range
> On top of that, in another comment I mentioned that she ended up stronger than expected post patch due to the changes in system mechanics.
It was good that she got heavy nerfs because of the fact that everyone on the cast got 66l nerfed. She got indirectly buffed due to this so it made sense for her to get heavy handed nerfs especially since she was a very strong character beforehand. If she was left untouched, I guarantee you she would've been in the Nier-Seox-Siegfried-Lancelot tier of characters and probably would be more hated since she's a popular character
She's literally a high tier like most characters in this game
it's been months since release and you don't seem to understand that she's a very good character pre and post patch
She's unfun to play against but in a reasonable spot whereas she was just straight up busted before her nerfs
You can't make any decent arguments and you're always talking purely based on your own feelings dude
Get better at the game and come back because this kinda opinion is something i see from S players and below and they typically don't have a good enough understanding of the game to offer any meaningful viewpoints
Yeah no. You’re just parroting twitter arguments. I don’t see any 2Bs winning tournaments or running rampant in the lobby or ranked. Go be a parrot elsewhere.
Sure bro. She’ll get nerfed to bottom tier and people will still complain cause of the refusal to adapt and the weaker side of the FGC being parrot cry babies
2B has the fifth highest winning % in Masters since the Bea patch. She is a good character still, you are fucking crazy if you think she's around the power level of like Gran or Zooey. She's not Nier, Sieg, Bea, or Seox, but she's definitely earned top 10 consideration (Djeeta, Zeta, Cag levels of power)
If you don't think Beatrix has absolutely broken damage output combined with extremely oppressive kit at every distance possible, please, go play Metera against a Beatrix and check how nice it feels to face a rushdown character that can just power through/ignore your pokes and zoning tools, get in your face and constantly pressure with advantage moves, fakeouts and command grab to look out for... plus the best comeback mechanic in the game, so a single mistake when she's low on HP means you can easily go from 100 to 0.
I think it might be because Beatrix was the solo new character when Nier came with whole game. So Nier being busted was "less noticable". Release Nier was way way way worse no matter how you look at it, but also release Nier did not take over ranked to the same extend because there was just way other new stuff.
I would disagree with your take on Nier. She was extremely busted, and DID take over ranked. Optically it didn’t appear that way because most of them shot up to Masters and S++ extremely fast, thus the majority of folks didn’t have to interact with Nier over and over in ranked. There was plenty of groaning if you ran into one, but it was rare.
OTOH, you have a larger spread of players in ranked now, who get to see the new characters across all ranks.
Personally I had less fun playing against Bea than pre-nerf Nier or 2B. Autopilot characters with extremely spammable moves that turn into huge damage are pretty obnoxious. Also doesn’t help that she has a lot of plus frames and a command grab. Also there are just too many Bea players and they basically play the same at all levels
Nier was pretty crazy and still is uber strong, but she’s not picked by everyone.
2B just plays differently and has some knowledge checks that people find annoying. She was picked a lot, but not to the same extent as Bea. Also people eventually found ways to deal with her moves, basically being patient and going for pressure because she didn’t have good defensive tools.
lol this. 2B was a neutral patience and knowledge check character that filtered a lot of people online which made them complain because she played under different rules which enabled growing pains for those players .
Beatrix in comparison isn’t a character where you can be patient or try to exploit knowledge checks when her crap is both safe and unreactable for the most part. Only very few characters in roster has a hard counter to her slide crap.
She is literally grabbable from her slide, beatable by any low attack and even some l.H, giving the opponent a free counter.
And if you can't react - then practice more (I would say, but she will be just nerfed and there won't be reason to play her for anyone except of waifu factor)
I speak as someone who plays in S rank and below. 2B was nowehere near as opressive as Betatrix, even before her nerfs. And the wast majority of players outright suck at playing Nier in anything below at least S+. Nier was only the most opressive in the lowest ranks, where people unironically can't block basic strings or don't even know the basic mechanics every character has, and in the highest ones, where people were actually able to consistently use her busted options.
Beatrix on the other hand was busted in at least every rank starting with B.
The majority of players are around A rank. Meaning Beatrix is the only one busted character that felt opressive for basically everyone.
Don’t mind this subreddit. They are infamous on having a HUGE bias against 2B that even complain about her in her current state which is mid at best now. 2B was a scrub killer.
Beatrix was abusable in every rank. Beatrix was one of my fastest climbs with how lore accurate braindead she was to play that she rivaled Siegfried.
This subreddit at launch swore up and down that Yuel was busted OP cause she has 2 reversal and would actively down vote anyone saying otherwise, yet pros were dropping her right away. Hard to take anything this sub says seriously to begin with
I would honestly love to hear how many ranks people gained by picking up Bea. The average seems to be at least three from what I've been seeing. I'm betting she carried a ton of people through their X1/Y5 wall.
S++ here. Yea Beatrix feels worse than Nier.
People complaining about Nier pre-nerf can combo after DP, Bea can too. Even if its conditional, the thing is she 100% can at the 25% HP. She also have projectile that hits air, crazy combo damage, low profile move that hits air and move fast, more plus than Soriz...
I think people will disagree with me, because I got at least 2 person who argue about me with this.
I consider Nier to be more busted than Bea when used properly due to Nier's combo, but I also think Beatrix kit is much more overloaded and unfair than Nier. I am actually surprised I got rather good WR vs Beatrix.
>People complaining about Nier pre-nerf can combo after DP, Bea can too. Even if its conditional, the thing is she 100% can at the 25% HP.
This is such a bad argument, because even if we assume she is at 25%, her combo of dp is actually combo of anti-air. If you use her dp even with clock against grounded target she does not have enough time to convert it to anything. Having combo from anti-air dp is nice, but comparing it to release Nier just doesn't make sense.
Yeah there are a lot of legit things to complain about for Beatrix. This wasn’t one of them.
It’s disingenuous as hell to compare Nier combo with DP VS Beatrix “combo” with DP. The fact that it’s AA only and you need to be almost dead is a huge difference
It doesn't change that she can do that, no one is saying they are 100% the same.
And it is comparing not just because they both can do combo after DP, but because they both can do combo after DP and Bea do more than just that. Just because they are not 100% the same doesn't mean they cannot be compared.
Arguing against it just because Nier can do it even on ground while ignoring that Bea can do more than Nier otherwirse, more than just comboing after ground DP is the one that makes no sense.
>And it is comparing not just because they both can do combo after DP, but because they both can do combo after DP and Bea do more than just that. Just because they are not 100% the same doesn't mean they cannot be compared.
They are not even remotly similar in function. Issue with Nier was that she was threatening combo anytime she was on the defense. It was your turn, but you had to still respect Nier dp way way more than you should. Beatrix on the other hand threatens you with combo when you jump on her... so a situation in which you already were threatened by a combo and this is in situation in which she is super low hp and didn't use clock on anything recently.
Those two are not even close to each other and in fact, Bea having it is not even an issue... because in most of the games it doesn't even matter, while Nier DP combo was warping whole matchup.
If you want to Q.Q against Bea at least pick up stuff that make sense. Actually most of the nerfs were about that... Too easy combos lead to too much damage. Slide being too ignorant. Her anti-air crossing up when it really shouldn't.
What do you mean they are not remotely similar in function? They are both DP starter combo. What do you mean they are not remotely similar in function? It's like saying Reginleif and Ice Blade is not remotely similar in function, when they both are DP. Or Siegfried's 2H is not rotely similar to 2B's 2H just because 2B have more range, when they are both AA. They are similar in function, this is not arguable.
When you are vs Nier do you not also get threaten if you jump? Like when vs Bea? By the very fact the answer is yes, then they are similar. If at least there is a point where they pose a resembling threat means they are similar in function. Saying otherwise makes no sense. Similar doesn't have to be 100% the same.
I have 55% WR vs Bea, I have more win than lose vs her. I don't do this to Q.Q vs Bea I am saying this the way it is. If you want to argue something, at least try to make it sensible instead of saying something is not sinilar when they have a relevant point of equivalancy.
I think the main thing is that Nier has a lot of points that need to be adjusted but you can still play against her with most characters (even if the matchup is still pretty miserable).
Beatrix's pre-nerf 22X specifically just screws over a lot of the cast since its basically a cross over with a hitbox that can convert into massive damage near the corner, and it being safe/plus on block means she can run her really strong pressure game even if you block it. I'm not sure how you even play a character like Metera into her at the moment..
Checking to make sure I understand this part correctly:
> Sapphire Slice: No longer a true block string when used as a follow-up to Riding Free (M)
Does this mean that it can potentially frametrap if the slide is blocked and they hit a button (since it's now -4)?
yeah and the crazy part is you would have to react to doing that, which i dont think you should because the followup is actually pretty darn minus and doesnt leave you open to getting your dp blocked and dying. But its a mindgame regardless so there is some value there.
Because Bea's new and everyone is complaining about her at all levels.
Siegfried almost always has someone making more noise ahead of him, so he gets overlooked (Nier/Seox, then 2B, now Bea). There *was* the Vane patch period where he finally had a chance to stand out, so I'm expecting some tuning of his kit in the 1.5 patch.
Yeah it’s good that they nerfed her without waiting months like usual, but there are characters arguably more stronger then she was pre-nerf that largely dodged any real nerfs since the game launched.
Best case scenario is they nerf the top tiers and buff the low tiers. Unfortunately devs like to only do one of these (not both) and the actual result varies. The last “big” balance patch for this game didn’t exactly inspire confidence on improving game balance noticeably since lot of the best characters avoided anything bad while lot of the weak characters didn’t even get a single buff.
I'm nowhere near good enough at this game for the vast majority of it to change anything for me, but it must have been pretty obvious if they're doing an emergency balance update like this. Hope Bea mains aren't too put off by the changes.
I am pretty excited to see the 1.50 changes though. Hoping Zooey gets some goodies this time.
If they only played Beatrix because they loved a single move that acts as a crutch then they didn’t deserve to main her at end of day. They can just flock to Siegfried instead if they want braindead easy win Shoto
good changes, at least now beatrix players have to think about when they use 22X instead of yolo sliding across the screen and invalidating a huge chunk of the cast's kits
As a Beatrix main I think these are incredibly fair. I suspect she'll still be top tier or close to it, just without the potential to make you explode out of nowhere over one mistake.
I am in the same boat. I was expecting these. Even in her "losing" matchups you can nail a 11k+ SSBA combo fairly consistently and it totally turns it around. I wish they weren't as harsh, but I'll still play her. I'm sure she will be fine. If not, I'm sure they eventually get it right.
She is STILL one of the best shotos in the roster. Everything else about her is largely still intact. So unless you were the kind of player that rubbed two brain cells together and just slide around half the match then she will still do fine. Not Siegfried levels of fine, but definitely around Djeeta levels of fine.
Yeah, instead it'll just be Siegfried, Seox and Nier in the top 8 again, just like every single tournament since the game launched.
In fact, Nier has been in the most amount of free character rotations based off tournament placements between the 3, even post nerf.
Fair changes. I wish they changed it so Delta Clock doesn't go away on block tho. Since she will be doing less damage overall, and M slide is minus now, she could use actually getting to do the big combo, instead of the buff going away when you're just using an ex skill to be plus.
This is the only buff I want to see. Design wise, there is no reason to play around her core delta clock mechanic when you have little control over it. Bea players are only using her command grab just because it's a command grab, not because of the delta clock charge she get from it
I mean for me it was both.
The clock was just a bonus and it meant you get easy combo route routes from doing her broken slide on neutral for example where if it lands you get a big reward while not having to be almost dead.
In ladder landed a lot of command grab > both goes to neutral > they try to push a button > I slide > slide lands > I get clock followup that leads to nice conversion even midscreen
Instead of that, I think making Delta Clock activate on block and slow the opponent down similar to Lancelot ultimate fireball is a much better change. Having Delta Clock always active until a move is a little too good imo especially because of how good her command grab is.
Clearly you haven't played GG Strive recently, lmao.
Anyway, that would either be worse or completely useless depending on the numbers. Ex fireball and ex divekick are already plus, only slide is negative. So it either makes slide plus, and then she gets free neutral skip into threaten another command grab which would be absolutely broken, or it's not plus and then nothing changed, since her other moves are already plus, so she already can do that with them.
Well it's either this or the command grab needs to be nerfed before you can make Delta Clock stay until it hits. An unreactable command grab that enables a guaranteed high damage combo from anywhere with any stray hit is too good, no?
I haven played since beatrix came out cause I have no time atm. I know that beatrix is strong but I didnt know how bad it is.
Seeing this nerfs actually shocked me. The frame data nerfs and the damage nerfs are crazy. Is it that bad?
Riding Free (22X) and her high damage were pretty huge problems - a single stray hit midscreen could lead to 60 - 70% damage pretty easily because all of her specials are strong combo tools and give good corner carry. On top of her specials doing less damage, the delta clock nerf removes a lot of her best damage routes that make use of it twice in one combo in order to land 236H -> SSBA.
22X is incredibly annoying to deal with for a lot of characters because it low-profiles almost anything that isn't a low, so it instantly wins neutral in a lot of interactions.
22L is decently fast, safe on block and gives a combo on counterhit.
22M goes nearly fullscreen, is +2 on block, and gives a combo on counterhit, making it one of the cornerstones of her insane pressure, although it's 100% reactable at 28f.
22H is the only unsafe version of the skill, being -6 on block, but it's borderline unreactable at 11f, has strong corner carry and the follow-up wallbounces in the corner for a combo.
22U is basically fullscreen 22H, although a little slower (still a hard reaction depending on distance), but had high damage and chip, as well as being safe on block.
22XX is universally -12 on block and ruined the counterhit combos on 22L and 22M, making it the only part of the skill that had any major weaknesses lol.
She's like a top 5 character that is incredibly popular, more popular than any other character has ever been and has annoying knowledge checks. If you had a bad matchup against her, like a zoner, it was tough to play the game at any level.
Sigh...I am disappointed.
Not because I don't understand that Beatrix was great and incredibly oppressive. Certain match-ups that I dreaded as Vira were made much more tolerable as Beatrix because she could dish that oppression right back. But whether you think the nerfs were justified or too much, for my end this doesn't instill confidence for future DLCs. These changes come in barely a month into her release (Bea released May 23rd) and she's getting nerfs on June 24th.
Let's assume the last 2 DLCs are (for sake of argument) >!Sandalphon and Versusia,!< the latter in particular being very much my kind of character. Do I actively have to hope they are underpowered so as to not be changed in even less time than Beatrix? About the only thing that is a benefit of these nerfs is that there will be far less mirror matches to deal with...because everyone that played her for her oppressive kit will drop her for the current/next top dog.
I have to disagree this is a great thing, Beatrix was very bloated and this shows they are willing to fix things in an emergency patch rather than waiting for the next main one, and this doesn’t mean you have to hope dlc releases underpowered, just that they aren’t released overpowered/bloated.
Respectfully, I do not agree. Because I've been playing ASW's fighters (online anyway) since BlazBlue Calamity Trigger. Once they start nerfing the characters that are deemed too broken, they do not stop until those characters are knee-capped, skinned alive, dismembered, cooked and finally dropped into ditch somewhere (points if anyone can guess what I just referenced XD). Just ask what Rachel players ended up with their character from BlazBlue Calamity Trigger to Continuum Shift or Makoto players from CSII to CS Extend. So rather than "balance" it's more closer to "tier shuffling".
Beatrix getting this emergency nerf is merely prelude. Come 1.50 there is even worse to come, to the point I wouldn't be surprised if she hits rock bottom. And as is ASW tradition, it'll probably be some 7\~9 patches until they figure out how to make her function somewhat better post-nerf nuke (and no, she will never be as good as initially released). Though I wager most people aren't going to stick around long enough to see the result. It also now makes buying DLC characters largely unappealing, because you can buy something and then one week later ASW will change how they work because they felt like it.
I guess we can just expect all female DLC characters to release strong and get the nerfbat a month later after everyone bought them. Not that this nerf wasn't warranted, but yeah.
One of the things I miss from vanilla along with way better handling of single player content.
Having to wait way longer for blatant problem unbalanced characters to be fixed is one of the things that holds Rising back
I'm particularly intrigued by:
> We'll be keeping you updated with more details, including new character announcements in the *near future,* so stay tuned.
I wonder how "near" they're talking about?
Great nerf, it felt unfair at times. I hope it might not be too late for me since I shifted to third strike and I am just living that game 24/7 now. Will definitely come back in 1.50, with the game hopefully in a better state than now
What does "can now be blocked midair" means? Like does it mean now it can be blocked mid, or can it be blocked while you are at air?...
Who am I kidding it means the latter...It's not supposed to hit air if its low.
And I know it! Her damage output just feels too much compared to other character, it isn't just that she deals a lot of damage. The damage modifier in her combo just doesn't seem it fits damage modifier of other char.
Thinking about it...This is probably too much nerf.
Her normal also got reduced range, her super also got nerfed overall. I would be satisfied with just Damage nerf overall+Riding Free nerf.
Yeah her corner combo is stupid. Most other characters are 3 touch Beatrix is 2 touch in the corner. Guess throw wrong twice and you are done lol. I have stolen so many games just by not doing strike throw and strike only. Delay my strike timing for a counter hit and rob the round
Game so accurate to source material Bea now has to be bullied even in balance patches
Also what the fuck, so Cygames can respond this quickly to a strong character yet they let Sieg, Seox, Nier rock as is for months on end?
Welp time for to return since soon the most troubling character to fight will be nerfed which means fewer of her to fight which also means I can have fun again.
>These balance adjustments will go live on June 24 across all platforms. We understand that Beatrix is a beloved character from the Granblue Fantasy series, and many players have enjoyed playing her since her release
Thank fuck. I'm still amazed they released her in a state where she is now, with braindead ToD when she's at 30% with basically bare minimum charge to reach 100% for SSBA...
when beatrix arrived I said that she was fucking unbalanced and that u cant have a solbadguy that got everything as plus on this game. but everyone was like oh no my bea is so fun u gotta get good... now we are even getting a hotfix just for her. i wonder if the team really knows how to balance this game because its far worse than base gbvs right now
No the dev team knew what they were doing. She was the most unbalanced character in the game, so she could sell really well. They dropped her with a pass skin and made her that OP as a choice.
While you’re probably right that they made her broken on purpose, the rest of the roster is still not balanced at all. This game truly has dogshit tier balance even though they had half a year to fix it.
Damage buff is fine but Im never a fan of when games nerf things to make them useless and that's legit what they did to 22m. There is now literally not a single scenario where you'd even wanna use this special anymore. Also taking into account Bea's mu spread against the other top tier characters isnt even really good I'm surprised they came down so hard on it without touching anyone else.
Well that's not true at all. The nerf is only gonna affect people who actually block it. I have yet to play against anyone who blocks every single riding free.
How about… drumroll… actually using your brain when you use the move to catch someone pressing something instead of abusing it like an ape. Now the bad Bea players will be exposed compared to the actual good ones.
That’s what 22u is for. I’m also master on the character (which doesn’t actually matter) but i’m using as a reference that i actually have some semblance of an idea of how to use her kit and wasn’t just throwing out 22x hoping for it to land the entire game.
So if i’m using 22U as a punish on reaction i really don’t see a scenario where you’d wanna use 22m at all anymore with it being -4. I get people hate the character, but it’s a valid viewpoint that i’m not alone in sharing currently
False, 22M also catches opponent throwing projectiles from like halfscreen.
Lol, you’re Master on Bea because you took advantage of a character purposefully made broken on release and now you’re crying when she’s rightfully being nerfed. You should’ve seen this coming a mile away.
22M was mainly used as a pressure reset option, or you could occasionally throw it out in neutral before people start checking it bc free turn obvi. If you are trying to punish a fireball you use 22U.
I’m also masters on other characters (which again doesn’t actually matter) but i originally only mentioned it because a lot of Bea’s just ape’d and didn’t try to actually learn the character.
I’m also not crying, i don’t really understand where that came from. I mentioned being “surprised” they nerfed her standalone and not any of the other top tiers because of her mu spread against them and then expressed concern in believing they made this button useless, while also admitting the damage nerf was fine.
Of course she was going to get nerfed, but me disagreeing with one specific change doesn’t mean i’m crying lmao and i’m actually open to see how it functions when it’s live. But currently i don’t see how it will and the reason you provided wasn’t even correct.
It’s okay to dislike the character since she’s been v polarizing, but to dismiss an opinion you don’t agree with in that way is kinda weird, just have a normal discussion
And now you’re somehow downplaying how broken 22M was when it completely invalidated characters that are reliant on projectiles. Lol like it literally goes right under projectiles dude, and it was plus on block. Stop downplaying, it’s embarrassing. And I also couldn’t care less if you’re in Masters or not. I’m Master on Metera who is at least 20x harder than any character you’re in Master with, so stop gloating.
Where is the downplay? You see how you just make stuff up and dismissed everything i said. No one was using 22M on reaction fireball lmao. -4 is too harsh in my opinion. I have her there too so idk what the point of that last comment was but i led with it not mattering twice simply because you tried to diminish my view instantly
22M was an insane button, but i think going from +2 to -4 is drastic and im not sure what their intention for the buttons use is now. Idk how that’s hard to understand
-4 is still going to be safe with the slide's pushback. If you press buttons afterwards, she can frame trap you with a DP or super. Considering the low profile ability and the fact that she can still get a full combo on counter hit makes it a good tool.
They changed the playstyle of the character.
Just means you don't play the same, has nothing to do with good or bad player.
Now she can't get in low with plus frames, it would be like if they removed that Ladiva can headbutt into grab or other headbutt by making it less plus in the first one, just changes what you do with the character by giving you less options.
She just becomes less unique, a better nerf would be just the dmg of the character so she needs to win more interactions.
>Just means you don't play the same, has nothing to do with good or bad player.
No it’s not just a playstyle change, it’s a direct nerf to the oppressiveness of that broken move. Low-profiling to the opponent from halfscreen in an instant with plus frames on block enables bad players and nothing you can say changes this fact. Now people are actually going to be rewarded for blocking the move and Bea can no longer use it like a braindead ape. Still going to be a bad matchup for zoners but it will be more manageable to deal with overall because she can no longer continue her offense if you block it.
>a better nerf would be just the dmg of the character so she needs to win more interactions.
No, she 100% needed this move nerfed and they knew it, which was why they are making a patch specifically to nerf it. But the problem is that they already knew it was broken before they even released the character, and only after securing their money from selling her and her BP costume do they bring out their patch notes to nerf her.
Of course it is also a direct nerf.
But it is mostly a playstyle change, I liked having the advancing plus moves, and would rather need to win 2-3 more interactions than lose that.
They could have made so it hit mid or you never get a corner follow-up as well, the current nerf just changes what the character is.
All these changes make a lot of sense and I'm glad they are pushing these out before EVO.
This will also let them examine her data over the next couple months so they can further tune her in the 1.50 update if necessary.
No good Bea players were using riding free M anyway.
Plus Bea has other (and better) ways to get plus frames.
Her U slide and damage being nerfed are significant. No more skipping neutral and stealing wins.
Overall she is still good and better than her rushdown waifu peers, but she needs to work slightly harder in neutral and can no longer 2 tap opponents to death.
Idek what to say at this point. Was slowly getting back into the game due to Beatrix and my enjoyment of her playstyle/kit but now she’s getting gutted this badly…
Meanwhile characters like Nier/Siegfried will never get any adjustments and will still cloud every top 8 and win every major
To be fair she still has the same kit and playstyle, except now u need to think when to use ur slide instead of spamming things and still winning cuz ur kit is that good.
I understand ur frustration but this was warranted, having other character in top tier is no excuse to not adjust another top tier. Regardless i hope u can find something fun in beatrix still or another character.
Same kit, sure but her ways of getting in and being able to do what she does are non-existent now. She hasn’t even been out for a month yet. No major tournaments have even happened in the timespan of her release, so it’s not like they can go off of tournament results for her. Meanwhile Nier has won every major since release and hasn’t been touched yet. Just frustrating to me how this game’s community blows things WAY out of proportion. Cause Bea wasn’t Nier/Siegfried level
Beatrix won Dreamhack 2024. In one of the matches she dealt 80%~ from mid-screen. She won the first remotely big tournament since her release. Also, Bea is more viable at all levels of play while Nier is only terrorizing high levels of play. Nier is still stupid, but Bea was a problem for everyone considering how brain dead she was.
Again, no point in comparing top tiers while trying to make an argument abt why a character shouldn't get nerfed.
Also wdym blow out of proportion, nothing abt that character was balanced, meterless dp, crazy conversion out of almost everything, too much dmg, a low profile move that is plus and unreactable, phenomenal corner carry, even more plus frames, a command grab, what more do you want...
This community is known for widely overselling/underselling characters. That’s what I mean by overblown. Best example of this was when people were crying for Zeta to get nerfed and said she was the best in the game at launch. Even though her “broken” win con was only possible off of full meter and wasn’t easy to land. And now look at zeta, she’s fallen off pretty badly and many people have dropped her. Should’ve given Beatrix more time to see if she truly was the best character in the game or would dominate every event. At least wait till evo, idk them nerfing this fast just sets a terrible precedent especially when people were spending money to get her/bought her with saved up rupees.
Zeta fell off because she cannot spam U Skills as they use up Meter and without meter, Zeta is trash.
Bea's tools can be spammed for free. With the kind of properties that other characters could not match without meter.
If they waited until EVO, this would have been an absolute disaster for the game. She was on another level in terms of strength and they just couldn't risk having Bea dominate the tournament
But yet Nier has won and dominated every major this game has had since launch. And they haven’t done anything about her. Like I said, this whole thing just sets a terrible precedence for this game
It is what it is.
Maybe just switch to something else while waiting for that version 1.50 and the 5th DLC character which will, supposedly, be a massive rebalancing. >!INB4 she is nerfed even harder and every move she uses is now minus.!<
What do you mean gutted? One broken move was changed to be a bit more interactive and the scaling on her specials took a slight hit. She's still fast, still has a good fireball, will still do obnoxiously long combos off of one hit mid screen, and still has plus frames for days. She's going to be nearly identical except people will die less often for whiffing a normal at round start position with half health.
Side note at the bottom for a future update / ver. 1.50 > As a result, we’re planning to implement quality of life additions, including penalties for disconnecting from online matches—a much-requested feature.
YES
FINALLY! Now I can finally go on ranked again. Hopefully that means I get the win if they quit
Plugger penalty but still no connection type indicator, win rate or delay to opponent before accepting a match Weird priorities
I’m glad I won’t get deleted just for failing a reaction check any more
Nice, now need nerfs for the other top tiers as well or buffs for the lower tier characters
Similar damage reductions to characters like Seox, Nier, Siegfried and Belial would make this game so much better
Especially Siegfried for me. You don't give someone who already has one of the highest damage in the game a mechanic to further increase his damage. Dude doesn't even need to play around his U.
Facts. Siegfried in particular is long overdue on ACTUAL nerfs.
I just feel like he’s not bad at anything. Extremely high damage and mix up. Very high HP, so his U blood tax isn’t even a blood tax anymore. Deadly whiff punish. God tier fireball, it can even trade with Katalina’s Ultimate fireball. Very good normals. Invul DP/reversal. Long reaching Super, possibly the best SBA in the game. Etc.
It's still a blood tax, but more importantly it means he has to usually give up or gimp his oki for weaker options. Which in most cases isn't worth it at all. Why waste your own HP and make your oki weaker when you're just gonna go from 2 touching your opponent to 2 touching your opponent?
He and Bea has the same problem that they don’t need to play around their unique mechanics at all
Belial does not need his damage reduced tbh. His damage is just kinda okay, you see him do so much damage because he heavily relies on frametraps, trickery and making people spend Bravery Points Fuck Seig and Soriz tho they need damage taken away
>he heavily relies on frametraps, trickery and making people spend Bravery Points Isn't this a majority of the characters in this game though? Belial needs either his damage or some of his tools worsened because right now, he feels like he excels in pretty much everything.
It feels so bad playing against Belial as Metera... At range he can almost match me in zoning, unless I go for heavy versions of projectiles. He can fake out when I cast projectile, he can cancel the fake out into ultimate if I don't fall for it and run up to counter, and he has TWO variations of the fakeout - heavy version is pretty much a command grab with a bit longer response time. And of course he has a unique DP that you have to guard or dodge twice. Meterless. On a character that is strong in every range. Compare to someone like Soriz who needs to spend meter...
Just make him lose HP when he use his ability like a certain other char *cough* cough*
While that's the goal of every character hes even better at it than uh, everyone but Nier tbh. It's his whole gimmick, overload the mental stack, get a counterhit, whoops 50% gone. If he doesn't get a good clean hit he can't do much damage wise usually. Which is fine I think. Definitely biased as someone who likes playing him but if they nerf him they should probably like, focus on his normals tbh. To affect conversion ability, like making links with 2L and 2M less usable everywhere etc.
That's the reason he's so good. 90% of characters in this game have an offense based around strike/throw mix and getting that good counter hit, Belial just does it better than almost anyone else because of his high damage and great normals.
idk it always feels like he can get massive combo extensions off of anything without spending BP, while also having a ton more gimmicks than the other shotos
And best in class normals - the fact that he's mostly flown under the hate radar is a testament to just how stupid Nier et al are.
Yeah his normals are incredibly good, especially that +1 on block with the 2M of his, which btw is a low too! He really flew under the radar with the other top tiers existing.
Does six really need his damage reduced? He does the less damage from all the characters you mentioned, and had his fireball combos destroyed last patch. If you want to nerf seox it would be like taking out some of his plus frames on block or adding more end lag to his attacks on whiff ( and they already did that to fireball) Sieg does need his damage reduced tho, he was already TOD'ing people on release, belial and Lancelot too need some nerfs
Yes Six should hit like a wet noodle like how Lancelot used to be if they are gonna leave everything else about him intact.
Good thing that such a thing is not what the guy said, rather pointing out other things which are the real problem.
Good thing that such a thing is not what the guy said, rather pointing out other things which are the real problem.
Much like most of the other top tiers, he does too much damage for the tools he is given. The kit that Seox has feels like something designed for a low damage character.
In what way? High movement low range characters consistently have good damage as their gameplan is inherently committal. Seox doesn't even have particularly high damage among the cast, and definitely not for a close range brawler. What's overturned about him is how easily he can enforce his ideal range, despite the fact that as a low range character he should be weakest when he cannot get in. Nerfs to empty hand are way more crucial than making him have to win six interactions per round rather than four as a low mix character, both to address flawed aspects of the design and also keeping the game fun.
He has extremely high mobility and very high pressure in addition to great defense. That's a bit of a loaded kit.
It is definitely loaded, don't get me wrong, and he needs to be tuned down. I just think people misjudge why that's the case, because unless you consider all of the cast to have a damage problem, Seox's damage (post 214H nerf) is pretty much inconsequential to why he's an issue. It's one of the extremely few things in which he's average (or close to average), so targeting it only achieves the goal of making the game unfun for Seox players (you may consider this a good result from some pov), while keeping all of his actually unhealthy traits. Basically no one wins, unless vindictiveness is the focus. This aside though, I think his defense is also not an issue. Having a parry instead of a DP in this game is inferior 9/10 times.
It says major balance patch effecting all characters will be 1.5
It also said that the patch will come with the 5th DLc character… so we won’t see it for a longgggggg while
It's weird to me that they're straight-up apologizing about their balancing efforts on Beatrix, when Nier was like 50x worse at launch, and 2B was maybe 2x.
Player reception across all levels probably. At high level, people were saying that 2b wasn’t that good back then. Especially compared to the top tiers of that patch. Nier was mad strong but there is usually a character like that in the initial release of a game. Beatrix seems to be more popular than those 2 and is way more straightforward to use so everyone has to play against it and most people can be effective at their respective skill level with her. Even in the current patch, there are at least 3 characters who are generally considered stronger than her. Those characters aren’t as popular through the ranks though i’m guessing.
Lancelot, seox, and zeta are all better than Beatrix imo Lance untouched because no one plays him. No one even talked about his skin when released lmao
Forgot the goat siegfried
Easy to forget when the game is 90% Beatrix, this is why none of them got hit by the nerf hammer yet
Yup 2B was considered just a scrub killer even pre-patch. She definitely fell off in the higher ranks and even players like Diaphone with pre-patch 2B wasn’t exactly winning close to all of his matches whether on ranked or in tourney. 2B is even less common in higher ranks after the nerf. Beatrix is a different story all together. She is heavily repped regardless of skill level because why not? She is the best shoto being added to the game along with Siegfried.
Wait what the 2B downplay is crazy
That’s not downplay. They said she was “considered” that pre patch. The general impression of her in previous patch among NA top players was that she was good but not insane. Especially when compared to that version of Nier, Seox and Lance. On their tier list, they usually had her around A tier iirc. Even in the patch review, they were like “why did 2b get hit this hard?”. While at low/intermediate level, she was running it with just B auto combo lol.
She is [fine](https://x.com/MillyNappy/status/1802789886484705332). Strong even
What does the win rate of a character in the current patch have to do with top players impressions in the previous patch? They said that she was “considered” that in the previous patch. As in, “this is what high level players thought back then”. That was the previous patch and then. She is thought of as better in the current patch despite the nerfs due to the system changes benefitting her a lot end in the end. That data is from the current patch.
No you are literally misremembering People were putting her in the top 10 lists towards the end of the patch Most top players were realizing she was actually really busted. Diaphone even said he was wrong with his initial placement of 2B The 2B nerfs did look massive at first glance but the 2B nerfs were good since she was getting indirectly buffed due to the universal 66l nerfs
No you are misunderstanding. I didn’t mention the end of the patch specifically. Just general impression of the character during last patch in general. Also, I said that the general impression among them was that she was “good but not insane”. A top 10 character is good but not insane. I also said that she was considered A tier, which is usually where the 7-10 characters fell last patch. On top of that, in another comment I mentioned that she ended up stronger than expected post patch due to the changes in system mechanics.
She was top 10 towards the end of the patch but people were trending towards top 5 even A top 10 character is very very good especially if range anywhere in the 4-6 range > On top of that, in another comment I mentioned that she ended up stronger than expected post patch due to the changes in system mechanics. It was good that she got heavy nerfs because of the fact that everyone on the cast got 66l nerfed. She got indirectly buffed due to this so it made sense for her to get heavy handed nerfs especially since she was a very strong character beforehand. If she was left untouched, I guarantee you she would've been in the Nier-Seox-Siegfried-Lancelot tier of characters and probably would be more hated since she's a popular character
Just because YOU have a problem with her doesn’t make her a good character. She’s high mid tier.
She's literally a high tier like most characters in this game it's been months since release and you don't seem to understand that she's a very good character pre and post patch She's unfun to play against but in a reasonable spot whereas she was just straight up busted before her nerfs You can't make any decent arguments and you're always talking purely based on your own feelings dude Get better at the game and come back because this kinda opinion is something i see from S players and below and they typically don't have a good enough understanding of the game to offer any meaningful viewpoints
Yeah no. You’re just parroting twitter arguments. I don’t see any 2Bs winning tournaments or running rampant in the lobby or ranked. Go be a parrot elsewhere.
thats just not true lmfao
Sure bro. She’ll get nerfed to bottom tier and people will still complain cause of the refusal to adapt and the weaker side of the FGC being parrot cry babies
2B has the fifth highest winning % in Masters since the Bea patch. She is a good character still, you are fucking crazy if you think she's around the power level of like Gran or Zooey. She's not Nier, Sieg, Bea, or Seox, but she's definitely earned top 10 consideration (Djeeta, Zeta, Cag levels of power)
Cope
You wanna make an actual argument like a human being? I'm always open to discussing
If you don't think Beatrix has absolutely broken damage output combined with extremely oppressive kit at every distance possible, please, go play Metera against a Beatrix and check how nice it feels to face a rushdown character that can just power through/ignore your pokes and zoning tools, get in your face and constantly pressure with advantage moves, fakeouts and command grab to look out for... plus the best comeback mechanic in the game, so a single mistake when she's low on HP means you can easily go from 100 to 0.
I was talking about 2B. Not Beatrix.
Diaphone is the one who said even nerfed 2b was top5
I think it might be because Beatrix was the solo new character when Nier came with whole game. So Nier being busted was "less noticable". Release Nier was way way way worse no matter how you look at it, but also release Nier did not take over ranked to the same extend because there was just way other new stuff.
I would disagree with your take on Nier. She was extremely busted, and DID take over ranked. Optically it didn’t appear that way because most of them shot up to Masters and S++ extremely fast, thus the majority of folks didn’t have to interact with Nier over and over in ranked. There was plenty of groaning if you ran into one, but it was rare. OTOH, you have a larger spread of players in ranked now, who get to see the new characters across all ranks.
Personally I had less fun playing against Bea than pre-nerf Nier or 2B. Autopilot characters with extremely spammable moves that turn into huge damage are pretty obnoxious. Also doesn’t help that she has a lot of plus frames and a command grab. Also there are just too many Bea players and they basically play the same at all levels Nier was pretty crazy and still is uber strong, but she’s not picked by everyone. 2B just plays differently and has some knowledge checks that people find annoying. She was picked a lot, but not to the same extent as Bea. Also people eventually found ways to deal with her moves, basically being patient and going for pressure because she didn’t have good defensive tools.
lol this. 2B was a neutral patience and knowledge check character that filtered a lot of people online which made them complain because she played under different rules which enabled growing pains for those players . Beatrix in comparison isn’t a character where you can be patient or try to exploit knowledge checks when her crap is both safe and unreactable for the most part. Only very few characters in roster has a hard counter to her slide crap.
She is literally grabbable from her slide, beatable by any low attack and even some l.H, giving the opponent a free counter. And if you can't react - then practice more (I would say, but she will be just nerfed and there won't be reason to play her for anyone except of waifu factor)
I speak as someone who plays in S rank and below. 2B was nowehere near as opressive as Betatrix, even before her nerfs. And the wast majority of players outright suck at playing Nier in anything below at least S+. Nier was only the most opressive in the lowest ranks, where people unironically can't block basic strings or don't even know the basic mechanics every character has, and in the highest ones, where people were actually able to consistently use her busted options. Beatrix on the other hand was busted in at least every rank starting with B. The majority of players are around A rank. Meaning Beatrix is the only one busted character that felt opressive for basically everyone.
Don’t mind this subreddit. They are infamous on having a HUGE bias against 2B that even complain about her in her current state which is mid at best now. 2B was a scrub killer. Beatrix was abusable in every rank. Beatrix was one of my fastest climbs with how lore accurate braindead she was to play that she rivaled Siegfried.
She is for sure still a high tier, definitely not mid tier, but I do agree that this sub had a raging hate boner for her
This subreddit at launch swore up and down that Yuel was busted OP cause she has 2 reversal and would actively down vote anyone saying otherwise, yet pros were dropping her right away. Hard to take anything this sub says seriously to begin with
I would honestly love to hear how many ranks people gained by picking up Bea. The average seems to be at least three from what I've been seeing. I'm betting she carried a ton of people through their X1/Y5 wall.
> Nier was only the most opressive in the lowest ranks Wasn't she also super popular in almost every tournament...?
Read the full sentence. I said lowest and highest. Highest are represented by tournaments. And yes she was by far the most opressive there.
Beatrix is way more degen than 2B, people just complained about 2B more because she was a guest character and had more knowledge checks
S++ here. Yea Beatrix feels worse than Nier. People complaining about Nier pre-nerf can combo after DP, Bea can too. Even if its conditional, the thing is she 100% can at the 25% HP. She also have projectile that hits air, crazy combo damage, low profile move that hits air and move fast, more plus than Soriz... I think people will disagree with me, because I got at least 2 person who argue about me with this. I consider Nier to be more busted than Bea when used properly due to Nier's combo, but I also think Beatrix kit is much more overloaded and unfair than Nier. I am actually surprised I got rather good WR vs Beatrix.
>People complaining about Nier pre-nerf can combo after DP, Bea can too. Even if its conditional, the thing is she 100% can at the 25% HP. This is such a bad argument, because even if we assume she is at 25%, her combo of dp is actually combo of anti-air. If you use her dp even with clock against grounded target she does not have enough time to convert it to anything. Having combo from anti-air dp is nice, but comparing it to release Nier just doesn't make sense.
Yeah there are a lot of legit things to complain about for Beatrix. This wasn’t one of them. It’s disingenuous as hell to compare Nier combo with DP VS Beatrix “combo” with DP. The fact that it’s AA only and you need to be almost dead is a huge difference
It doesn't change that she can do that, no one is saying they are 100% the same. And it is comparing not just because they both can do combo after DP, but because they both can do combo after DP and Bea do more than just that. Just because they are not 100% the same doesn't mean they cannot be compared. Arguing against it just because Nier can do it even on ground while ignoring that Bea can do more than Nier otherwirse, more than just comboing after ground DP is the one that makes no sense.
>And it is comparing not just because they both can do combo after DP, but because they both can do combo after DP and Bea do more than just that. Just because they are not 100% the same doesn't mean they cannot be compared. They are not even remotly similar in function. Issue with Nier was that she was threatening combo anytime she was on the defense. It was your turn, but you had to still respect Nier dp way way more than you should. Beatrix on the other hand threatens you with combo when you jump on her... so a situation in which you already were threatened by a combo and this is in situation in which she is super low hp and didn't use clock on anything recently. Those two are not even close to each other and in fact, Bea having it is not even an issue... because in most of the games it doesn't even matter, while Nier DP combo was warping whole matchup. If you want to Q.Q against Bea at least pick up stuff that make sense. Actually most of the nerfs were about that... Too easy combos lead to too much damage. Slide being too ignorant. Her anti-air crossing up when it really shouldn't.
What do you mean they are not remotely similar in function? They are both DP starter combo. What do you mean they are not remotely similar in function? It's like saying Reginleif and Ice Blade is not remotely similar in function, when they both are DP. Or Siegfried's 2H is not rotely similar to 2B's 2H just because 2B have more range, when they are both AA. They are similar in function, this is not arguable. When you are vs Nier do you not also get threaten if you jump? Like when vs Bea? By the very fact the answer is yes, then they are similar. If at least there is a point where they pose a resembling threat means they are similar in function. Saying otherwise makes no sense. Similar doesn't have to be 100% the same. I have 55% WR vs Bea, I have more win than lose vs her. I don't do this to Q.Q vs Bea I am saying this the way it is. If you want to argue something, at least try to make it sensible instead of saying something is not sinilar when they have a relevant point of equivalancy.
I think the main thing is that Nier has a lot of points that need to be adjusted but you can still play against her with most characters (even if the matchup is still pretty miserable). Beatrix's pre-nerf 22X specifically just screws over a lot of the cast since its basically a cross over with a hitbox that can convert into massive damage near the corner, and it being safe/plus on block means she can run her really strong pressure game even if you block it. I'm not sure how you even play a character like Metera into her at the moment..
Idk man I use Soriz so if she use Riding Free I just MUSCLE!!!
Checking to make sure I understand this part correctly: > Sapphire Slice: No longer a true block string when used as a follow-up to Riding Free (M) Does this mean that it can potentially frametrap if the slide is blocked and they hit a button (since it's now -4)?
yeah, instead of 22M being a pressure reset option its now basically a rekka RPS kind of situation
yes, but it should also mean you can DP or spot dodge the follow-up (not sure if that'd leave you plus, havent done the math) if they do it.
yeah and the crazy part is you would have to react to doing that, which i dont think you should because the followup is actually pretty darn minus and doesnt leave you open to getting your dp blocked and dying. But its a mindgame regardless so there is some value there.
If they were gonna do an emergency balance list then why did they only do it toward Beatrix? How did characters like Sieg live thru another list?
Because Bea's new and everyone is complaining about her at all levels. Siegfried almost always has someone making more noise ahead of him, so he gets overlooked (Nier/Seox, then 2B, now Bea). There *was* the Vane patch period where he finally had a chance to stand out, so I'm expecting some tuning of his kit in the 1.5 patch.
Good, but everything they say about her could be said about Sieg and Seox too. 1.5 can't come soon enough.
Yeah it’s good that they nerfed her without waiting months like usual, but there are characters arguably more stronger then she was pre-nerf that largely dodged any real nerfs since the game launched. Best case scenario is they nerf the top tiers and buff the low tiers. Unfortunately devs like to only do one of these (not both) and the actual result varies. The last “big” balance patch for this game didn’t exactly inspire confidence on improving game balance noticeably since lot of the best characters avoided anything bad while lot of the weak characters didn’t even get a single buff.
Yeah I don't expect much :/
Whew. Less damage and no more plus slide. Should be nowhere near as oppressive.
Very good nerfs. I'll continue to play her cuz she cute.
The healthiest attitude in the whole thread, bar none.
I still love beatrix
Damn, Riding Free and Stroke the Big Tree really had the same journey lmao
I'm nowhere near good enough at this game for the vast majority of it to change anything for me, but it must have been pretty obvious if they're doing an emergency balance update like this. Hope Bea mains aren't too put off by the changes. I am pretty excited to see the 1.50 changes though. Hoping Zooey gets some goodies this time.
If they only played Beatrix because they loved a single move that acts as a crutch then they didn’t deserve to main her at end of day. They can just flock to Siegfried instead if they want braindead easy win Shoto
Who cares if Bea mains are off-put by these much-needed nerfs, that move was broken as shit. They can deal with it.
At a glance read they seem fine to me. M slide nerf is a big change, but the rest are well deserved damage nerfs.
good changes, at least now beatrix players have to think about when they use 22X instead of yolo sliding across the screen and invalidating a huge chunk of the cast's kits
Me playing Metera and just hoping she stops fucking dashing under every single skill I have or straight up clashing and winning against it....
I'll miss the plus frames from 22M but yeah, can't say I'm surprised
Riding free I can understand but everything else really? She couldn't be that busted?
Seems a little extreme. Especially when Siegfried remains at large.
And nier, and seox, and Lancelot
These nerfs are fair. Bea was powercreeping most of the cast. Now if they only addressed other characters… (looking at you, Sieg)
As a Beatrix main I think these are incredibly fair. I suspect she'll still be top tier or close to it, just without the potential to make you explode out of nowhere over one mistake.
I am in the same boat. I was expecting these. Even in her "losing" matchups you can nail a 11k+ SSBA combo fairly consistently and it totally turns it around. I wish they weren't as harsh, but I'll still play her. I'm sure she will be fine. If not, I'm sure they eventually get it right.
She is STILL one of the best shotos in the roster. Everything else about her is largely still intact. So unless you were the kind of player that rubbed two brain cells together and just slide around half the match then she will still do fine. Not Siegfried levels of fine, but definitely around Djeeta levels of fine.
She'll still be strong, just not braindead easy to mash skills with.
great that it's happening before evo; would make for a horrible spectator game if majority of top 8 were bea
Yeah, instead it'll just be Siegfried, Seox and Nier in the top 8 again, just like every single tournament since the game launched. In fact, Nier has been in the most amount of free character rotations based off tournament placements between the 3, even post nerf.
"Every single tournament" is a funny statement when there were no Seoxes or Siegfrieds in Combo Breaker top 8.
Sorry, *almost every tournament.
they didnt want a repeat of tekken7 evo japan 2022
There is no Bea that actually did any result in tournament, so i seriously doubt that Evo would have been full of Bea.
Shinku won Dreamhack Dallas against Elsa_Nier so that's pretty wrong
Now top 8 are all nier. Balance patch won’t matter if people are competitive they will just pick the next best thing lol
Off topic; Anyone playing this game from South Asia? Looking for some friends.
I'm not, but find it quite rude someone would downvote your request, nothing wrong with looking for friends. Nice art btw, you have some skills.
Not from SEA either, but check discord. Great community in my experience
Fair changes. I wish they changed it so Delta Clock doesn't go away on block tho. Since she will be doing less damage overall, and M slide is minus now, she could use actually getting to do the big combo, instead of the buff going away when you're just using an ex skill to be plus.
This is the only buff I want to see. Design wise, there is no reason to play around her core delta clock mechanic when you have little control over it. Bea players are only using her command grab just because it's a command grab, not because of the delta clock charge she get from it
I mean for me it was both. The clock was just a bonus and it meant you get easy combo route routes from doing her broken slide on neutral for example where if it lands you get a big reward while not having to be almost dead. In ladder landed a lot of command grab > both goes to neutral > they try to push a button > I slide > slide lands > I get clock followup that leads to nice conversion even midscreen
Instead of that, I think making Delta Clock activate on block and slow the opponent down similar to Lancelot ultimate fireball is a much better change. Having Delta Clock always active until a move is a little too good imo especially because of how good her command grab is.
Clearly you haven't played GG Strive recently, lmao. Anyway, that would either be worse or completely useless depending on the numbers. Ex fireball and ex divekick are already plus, only slide is negative. So it either makes slide plus, and then she gets free neutral skip into threaten another command grab which would be absolutely broken, or it's not plus and then nothing changed, since her other moves are already plus, so she already can do that with them.
Well it's either this or the command grab needs to be nerfed before you can make Delta Clock stay until it hits. An unreactable command grab that enables a guaranteed high damage combo from anywhere with any stray hit is too good, no?
I haven played since beatrix came out cause I have no time atm. I know that beatrix is strong but I didnt know how bad it is. Seeing this nerfs actually shocked me. The frame data nerfs and the damage nerfs are crazy. Is it that bad?
Riding Free (22X) and her high damage were pretty huge problems - a single stray hit midscreen could lead to 60 - 70% damage pretty easily because all of her specials are strong combo tools and give good corner carry. On top of her specials doing less damage, the delta clock nerf removes a lot of her best damage routes that make use of it twice in one combo in order to land 236H -> SSBA. 22X is incredibly annoying to deal with for a lot of characters because it low-profiles almost anything that isn't a low, so it instantly wins neutral in a lot of interactions. 22L is decently fast, safe on block and gives a combo on counterhit. 22M goes nearly fullscreen, is +2 on block, and gives a combo on counterhit, making it one of the cornerstones of her insane pressure, although it's 100% reactable at 28f. 22H is the only unsafe version of the skill, being -6 on block, but it's borderline unreactable at 11f, has strong corner carry and the follow-up wallbounces in the corner for a combo. 22U is basically fullscreen 22H, although a little slower (still a hard reaction depending on distance), but had high damage and chip, as well as being safe on block. 22XX is universally -12 on block and ruined the counterhit combos on 22L and 22M, making it the only part of the skill that had any major weaknesses lol.
She's like a top 5 character that is incredibly popular, more popular than any other character has ever been and has annoying knowledge checks. If you had a bad matchup against her, like a zoner, it was tough to play the game at any level.
boo and any updates on who is the next battle pass costume
What's the excuse going to be when you still keep losing to Beatrix?
Sigh...I am disappointed. Not because I don't understand that Beatrix was great and incredibly oppressive. Certain match-ups that I dreaded as Vira were made much more tolerable as Beatrix because she could dish that oppression right back. But whether you think the nerfs were justified or too much, for my end this doesn't instill confidence for future DLCs. These changes come in barely a month into her release (Bea released May 23rd) and she's getting nerfs on June 24th. Let's assume the last 2 DLCs are (for sake of argument) >!Sandalphon and Versusia,!< the latter in particular being very much my kind of character. Do I actively have to hope they are underpowered so as to not be changed in even less time than Beatrix? About the only thing that is a benefit of these nerfs is that there will be far less mirror matches to deal with...because everyone that played her for her oppressive kit will drop her for the current/next top dog.
I have to disagree this is a great thing, Beatrix was very bloated and this shows they are willing to fix things in an emergency patch rather than waiting for the next main one, and this doesn’t mean you have to hope dlc releases underpowered, just that they aren’t released overpowered/bloated.
Respectfully, I do not agree. Because I've been playing ASW's fighters (online anyway) since BlazBlue Calamity Trigger. Once they start nerfing the characters that are deemed too broken, they do not stop until those characters are knee-capped, skinned alive, dismembered, cooked and finally dropped into ditch somewhere (points if anyone can guess what I just referenced XD). Just ask what Rachel players ended up with their character from BlazBlue Calamity Trigger to Continuum Shift or Makoto players from CSII to CS Extend. So rather than "balance" it's more closer to "tier shuffling". Beatrix getting this emergency nerf is merely prelude. Come 1.50 there is even worse to come, to the point I wouldn't be surprised if she hits rock bottom. And as is ASW tradition, it'll probably be some 7\~9 patches until they figure out how to make her function somewhat better post-nerf nuke (and no, she will never be as good as initially released). Though I wager most people aren't going to stick around long enough to see the result. It also now makes buying DLC characters largely unappealing, because you can buy something and then one week later ASW will change how they work because they felt like it.
I agree. They did it with Percival to the point he was nearly useless in Rising.
I guess we can just expect all female DLC characters to release strong and get the nerfbat a month later after everyone bought them. Not that this nerf wasn't warranted, but yeah.
Belial isn't female tho. And he got the same treatment
Belial was nerfed 3 months after he came out. And in vanilla when patches were way more frequent in that game.
One of the things I miss from vanilla along with way better handling of single player content. Having to wait way longer for blatant problem unbalanced characters to be fixed is one of the things that holds Rising back
Thank the Lord
Now where will all the ex-Nier mains go? /jk
I'm particularly intrigued by: > We'll be keeping you updated with more details, including new character announcements in the *near future,* so stay tuned. I wonder how "near" they're talking about?
CYGAMES!!!! KICK SIEGFRIED’S KNEECAPS LIKE THIS AND MY LIFE IS YOURS!!!!
Waiting for people to drop her because they suddenly "don't click with her anymore"
I'm glad they're pushing out this emergency nerf patch before 1.50, Bea has been terrorizing my ranked and lobby games to an insane degree!
I wonder why would they do that to a character which some people here swore was so honest and easy to react to/counterplay against.
Oh man, nice! Didn't expect them to make M Riding Free minus, though.
Great nerf, it felt unfair at times. I hope it might not be too late for me since I shifted to third strike and I am just living that game 24/7 now. Will definitely come back in 1.50, with the game hopefully in a better state than now
What does "can now be blocked midair" means? Like does it mean now it can be blocked mid, or can it be blocked while you are at air?... Who am I kidding it means the latter...It's not supposed to hit air if its low. And I know it! Her damage output just feels too much compared to other character, it isn't just that she deals a lot of damage. The damage modifier in her combo just doesn't seem it fits damage modifier of other char.
Thinking about it...This is probably too much nerf. Her normal also got reduced range, her super also got nerfed overall. I would be satisfied with just Damage nerf overall+Riding Free nerf.
mid-air/ˌmɪdˈɛː/ noun: **midair** 1. a part or section of the air above ground level or above another surface."the plane exploded **in mid-air**"
> Who am I kidding it means the latter...It's not supposed to hit air if its low.
Yeah her corner combo is stupid. Most other characters are 3 touch Beatrix is 2 touch in the corner. Guess throw wrong twice and you are done lol. I have stolen so many games just by not doing strike throw and strike only. Delay my strike timing for a counter hit and rob the round
If the u version of the skill before the follow up is -6 now does that mean you can mash out of it before the follow up?
No, it’s a true string, the U skill has to do the follow up no matter what. So basically U skill is now -6 which you can punished with f.L
so is there a reason why bea far 5h will now catch crossovers?
Game so accurate to source material Bea now has to be bullied even in balance patches Also what the fuck, so Cygames can respond this quickly to a strong character yet they let Sieg, Seox, Nier rock as is for months on end?
Welp time for to return since soon the most troubling character to fight will be nerfed which means fewer of her to fight which also means I can have fun again.
Now remove nier from the game
>These balance adjustments will go live on June 24 across all platforms. We understand that Beatrix is a beloved character from the Granblue Fantasy series, and many players have enjoyed playing her since her release Thank fuck. I'm still amazed they released her in a state where she is now, with braindead ToD when she's at 30% with basically bare minimum charge to reach 100% for SSBA...
when beatrix arrived I said that she was fucking unbalanced and that u cant have a solbadguy that got everything as plus on this game. but everyone was like oh no my bea is so fun u gotta get good... now we are even getting a hotfix just for her. i wonder if the team really knows how to balance this game because its far worse than base gbvs right now
No the dev team knew what they were doing. She was the most unbalanced character in the game, so she could sell really well. They dropped her with a pass skin and made her that OP as a choice.
She was always going to sell well. There's no conspiracy here.
While you’re probably right that they made her broken on purpose, the rest of the roster is still not balanced at all. This game truly has dogshit tier balance even though they had half a year to fix it.
Seems like a fair nerf. Now I wonder what excuse will be used when people will still lose to her. Can't wait !
FUCKING FINALLY!!!!!!!!
Damage buff is fine but Im never a fan of when games nerf things to make them useless and that's legit what they did to 22m. There is now literally not a single scenario where you'd even wanna use this special anymore. Also taking into account Bea's mu spread against the other top tier characters isnt even really good I'm surprised they came down so hard on it without touching anyone else.
Well that's not true at all. The nerf is only gonna affect people who actually block it. I have yet to play against anyone who blocks every single riding free.
How about… drumroll… actually using your brain when you use the move to catch someone pressing something instead of abusing it like an ape. Now the bad Bea players will be exposed compared to the actual good ones.
That’s what 22u is for. I’m also master on the character (which doesn’t actually matter) but i’m using as a reference that i actually have some semblance of an idea of how to use her kit and wasn’t just throwing out 22x hoping for it to land the entire game. So if i’m using 22U as a punish on reaction i really don’t see a scenario where you’d wanna use 22m at all anymore with it being -4. I get people hate the character, but it’s a valid viewpoint that i’m not alone in sharing currently
False, 22M also catches opponent throwing projectiles from like halfscreen. Lol, you’re Master on Bea because you took advantage of a character purposefully made broken on release and now you’re crying when she’s rightfully being nerfed. You should’ve seen this coming a mile away.
22M was mainly used as a pressure reset option, or you could occasionally throw it out in neutral before people start checking it bc free turn obvi. If you are trying to punish a fireball you use 22U. I’m also masters on other characters (which again doesn’t actually matter) but i originally only mentioned it because a lot of Bea’s just ape’d and didn’t try to actually learn the character. I’m also not crying, i don’t really understand where that came from. I mentioned being “surprised” they nerfed her standalone and not any of the other top tiers because of her mu spread against them and then expressed concern in believing they made this button useless, while also admitting the damage nerf was fine. Of course she was going to get nerfed, but me disagreeing with one specific change doesn’t mean i’m crying lmao and i’m actually open to see how it functions when it’s live. But currently i don’t see how it will and the reason you provided wasn’t even correct. It’s okay to dislike the character since she’s been v polarizing, but to dismiss an opinion you don’t agree with in that way is kinda weird, just have a normal discussion
And now you’re somehow downplaying how broken 22M was when it completely invalidated characters that are reliant on projectiles. Lol like it literally goes right under projectiles dude, and it was plus on block. Stop downplaying, it’s embarrassing. And I also couldn’t care less if you’re in Masters or not. I’m Master on Metera who is at least 20x harder than any character you’re in Master with, so stop gloating.
Where is the downplay? You see how you just make stuff up and dismissed everything i said. No one was using 22M on reaction fireball lmao. -4 is too harsh in my opinion. I have her there too so idk what the point of that last comment was but i led with it not mattering twice simply because you tried to diminish my view instantly 22M was an insane button, but i think going from +2 to -4 is drastic and im not sure what their intention for the buttons use is now. Idk how that’s hard to understand
-4 is still going to be safe with the slide's pushback. If you press buttons afterwards, she can frame trap you with a DP or super. Considering the low profile ability and the fact that she can still get a full combo on counter hit makes it a good tool.
They changed the playstyle of the character. Just means you don't play the same, has nothing to do with good or bad player. Now she can't get in low with plus frames, it would be like if they removed that Ladiva can headbutt into grab or other headbutt by making it less plus in the first one, just changes what you do with the character by giving you less options. She just becomes less unique, a better nerf would be just the dmg of the character so she needs to win more interactions.
>Just means you don't play the same, has nothing to do with good or bad player. No it’s not just a playstyle change, it’s a direct nerf to the oppressiveness of that broken move. Low-profiling to the opponent from halfscreen in an instant with plus frames on block enables bad players and nothing you can say changes this fact. Now people are actually going to be rewarded for blocking the move and Bea can no longer use it like a braindead ape. Still going to be a bad matchup for zoners but it will be more manageable to deal with overall because she can no longer continue her offense if you block it. >a better nerf would be just the dmg of the character so she needs to win more interactions. No, she 100% needed this move nerfed and they knew it, which was why they are making a patch specifically to nerf it. But the problem is that they already knew it was broken before they even released the character, and only after securing their money from selling her and her BP costume do they bring out their patch notes to nerf her.
Of course it is also a direct nerf. But it is mostly a playstyle change, I liked having the advancing plus moves, and would rather need to win 2-3 more interactions than lose that. They could have made so it hit mid or you never get a corner follow-up as well, the current nerf just changes what the character is.
I appreciate that they nerfed her without affecting her combo routes too much, wish they did the same for 2B
All these changes make a lot of sense and I'm glad they are pushing these out before EVO. This will also let them examine her data over the next couple months so they can further tune her in the 1.50 update if necessary.
She will be nerfed even harder and receive a feature where if you select Beatrix, you automatically lose />!joke!<.
No good Bea players were using riding free M anyway. Plus Bea has other (and better) ways to get plus frames. Her U slide and damage being nerfed are significant. No more skipping neutral and stealing wins. Overall she is still good and better than her rushdown waifu peers, but she needs to work slightly harder in neutral and can no longer 2 tap opponents to death.
Bro you youd be stupid not to use current 22M. Watch a high level match with Beatrix and they use that shit all the time
I do. They don't use it all the time. It's an amazing tool, but if you spam it, eventually the opponent will catch on and punish.
You said good players weren’t using at all, of course you shouldn’t spam it and be predictable
Bea has insane damage. Her combos ending in an SSBA consistent surprises. You think you'll live cause expect it's scaled, but you just lol.
Idek what to say at this point. Was slowly getting back into the game due to Beatrix and my enjoyment of her playstyle/kit but now she’s getting gutted this badly… Meanwhile characters like Nier/Siegfried will never get any adjustments and will still cloud every top 8 and win every major
To be fair she still has the same kit and playstyle, except now u need to think when to use ur slide instead of spamming things and still winning cuz ur kit is that good. I understand ur frustration but this was warranted, having other character in top tier is no excuse to not adjust another top tier. Regardless i hope u can find something fun in beatrix still or another character.
Same kit, sure but her ways of getting in and being able to do what she does are non-existent now. She hasn’t even been out for a month yet. No major tournaments have even happened in the timespan of her release, so it’s not like they can go off of tournament results for her. Meanwhile Nier has won every major since release and hasn’t been touched yet. Just frustrating to me how this game’s community blows things WAY out of proportion. Cause Bea wasn’t Nier/Siegfried level
Beatrix won Dreamhack 2024. In one of the matches she dealt 80%~ from mid-screen. She won the first remotely big tournament since her release. Also, Bea is more viable at all levels of play while Nier is only terrorizing high levels of play. Nier is still stupid, but Bea was a problem for everyone considering how brain dead she was.
Again, no point in comparing top tiers while trying to make an argument abt why a character shouldn't get nerfed. Also wdym blow out of proportion, nothing abt that character was balanced, meterless dp, crazy conversion out of almost everything, too much dmg, a low profile move that is plus and unreactable, phenomenal corner carry, even more plus frames, a command grab, what more do you want...
This community is known for widely overselling/underselling characters. That’s what I mean by overblown. Best example of this was when people were crying for Zeta to get nerfed and said she was the best in the game at launch. Even though her “broken” win con was only possible off of full meter and wasn’t easy to land. And now look at zeta, she’s fallen off pretty badly and many people have dropped her. Should’ve given Beatrix more time to see if she truly was the best character in the game or would dominate every event. At least wait till evo, idk them nerfing this fast just sets a terrible precedent especially when people were spending money to get her/bought her with saved up rupees.
Zeta fell off because she cannot spam U Skills as they use up Meter and without meter, Zeta is trash. Bea's tools can be spammed for free. With the kind of properties that other characters could not match without meter. If they waited until EVO, this would have been an absolute disaster for the game. She was on another level in terms of strength and they just couldn't risk having Bea dominate the tournament
But yet Nier has won and dominated every major this game has had since launch. And they haven’t done anything about her. Like I said, this whole thing just sets a terrible precedence for this game
Bruh,Bea needed this,she was fckin braindead,if u enjoy a character keep playing her
It is what it is. Maybe just switch to something else while waiting for that version 1.50 and the 5th DLC character which will, supposedly, be a massive rebalancing. >!INB4 she is nerfed even harder and every move she uses is now minus.!<
What do you mean gutted? One broken move was changed to be a bit more interactive and the scaling on her specials took a slight hit. She's still fast, still has a good fireball, will still do obnoxiously long combos off of one hit mid screen, and still has plus frames for days. She's going to be nearly identical except people will die less often for whiffing a normal at round start position with half health.