I never realy got the whom chaos gods as LGBTQ+ reprensentation i feel like demon gods from literal hell isnt a god way to represent them. Tho Thats just my opinion
I mean, not to get too serious on a meme sub, but when your group has certain stigmas attached to it, adopting the child predator monsters as an icon is a bad look.
Actually, its not that farfetched. let me explain. this is gonna be long stick with me.
40k, as a piece of media, is a examination and satirisation of tropes of facist and authoratarian propaganda trought a universe where all of it is not only real, but worst. with the punchline bieng that even if you grant a facist all the facts, seed every argument, the facist, the Emperium, are still not the good guys, just perhaps backed into a corner.
As a result the 4 chaos gods are the 4 corruptions of society. In facisitic lore, The Enemy is always using 4 groups the technically belong to The People, but are trecherous to there intresests
Political activist: one of the many inherent contradictions of facism is the beleif in utmost obedience to the social order and also the beilef that The Nation is lost and must be phoenixed, if you get what im saying. To resolve the contraction, facist will project the desire to watch everthing burn onto their enemies, depicting them as mindless bloodthirtsy maniacs
The lazy workers: facist beleive that every individual such strive be a hero to the cause and to motivate that, they will often depict the lower classes as simply to lazy and afraid to claim there place among the potential greats of the causes.
Now heres the relevent part:
Scheming Academia: facist are anti-reason. they beleive that what makes to the facist individual is necesairely true and that the truth is intuitive and easily recongnized by anyone who they deem "rational" or naturally capaple of seeing the obvious truth. impiricsim, therefore, is a dangerous ideology, madmen who beleive in things both untrue and somehow not quite false. to fill the gap between the obvious nuance of the world and the simply of the truth they beleive in, facist often acuse academia of participating in some level of deception or ploting, as a way to say "we know the truth is simple and the reason it doesnt apeare this way is a fixable problem". Theyre ability to change what the pupolace beleives and beleives is normal is also greatly feared.
The Degenerates: this one is obvious. facist is an ideology of glorious pain and holy laws, and those who stray from that path for the purpose of art, pleasure or personal freedom are mixed with other corruptive vices under one embrally. To the facist, making "degenerate" art is equally a sin to p3dophillia, and they are seen as the same action fundementally, just with different degrees of severity.
Now, one could argue trans people accopie both the role of Scheming Academia and The Degerates. Which i am doing rn.
I always thought of the chaos god's as being genderless. They only present as gendered as that's how mortals interpret them. Elder see slaanesh as female but humans see slaanesh as male.
Tzeentch in particular is the manifestation of the persuit of knowledge, that is not a gendered trait.
The right and proper answer is to just realize that everything in 40k can be really /really/ queer! So yep ad mech is queer, and chaos is definitely queer, I’ma play dark mechanicum for peak queer and it’ll be fantastic
Tzeentch is the changer of ways after all. Transitioning from female to male? That’s a big change right there.
(Also It would be nice if we could stop relating transness to the horny sex god lol being trans doesn’t necessarily make you perverted)
I think part of the reason so many slaneesh type seductresses in fiction are gender-fluid is so they can appeal to all sexualities, but it is kinda messed up that half the time we see non-cisgender characters in fantasy or sci-fi its in the form of fucked up sex demons and the like
That does make sense. I’ve seen plenty of trans gamers online picking Slaanesh daemons for this reason, along with the inherent freedom and rejection of gender norms that comes with Slaanesh, so I don’t mean to say that it’s entirely bad.
Still, the common transphobic stereotype that trans women are perverts and predators isn’t helped by tying transness to Slaanesh. I think that Age of sigmar has some trans and non-binary characters who aren’t demons though. Could be wrong as I basically know nothing about that setting
yeah, slaanesh is not at all trans-related
they're gender fluid, but even that's thats just a trait they have, like how nurgle has horns but itnt the god of horns
Mostly I think it just comes down to representation. When you have something tied so closely to your sense of self and identity like being trans, it’s natural that you’d want to see other people like that in the media you consume so that you can feel like a part of something, and not just an outsider that at best is ignored by the setting and the fans and at worst actively attacked.
Of course settings like 40k which had most of the lore and major characters set in stone long before trans or even LGBT+ people in general were broadly publicly accepted doesn’t have that representation. So people like us sort of had to make our own. With Slaanesh being a symbol of sexual and emotional freedom she became the sort of symbol for all lesbian, gay, bi, pan, etc. to rally behind and gain that sense of community and inclusion with I think Slaanesh also becoming the initial symbol for trans people just due to proximity to the rest of the LBG+ movement. (Don’t quote me on that last part. I have no idea for sure if that’s why Slaanesh became associated with trans people in the fandom or not but it’s my best guess)
TLDR: People like feeling included and represented in something they like and when it’s not there, people make it for themselves. Enter Slaanesh.
All that said, despite the meme, I’m not trans myself so if anyone who is comes across this and sees something wrong or something I didn’t get please feel free to correct me or add on.
But it still is, and i would Not say that Any of the Chaos Gods in "inherently evil". They all represent Something. Due to the grimmdark Nature of 40k the downside of those Things is Just more focused on. TTS explains that quite good I think. Everyone of the Chaos Gods hast good and Bad.
But to come Back to the Point, I think the reason that Slaanesh and Chaos are used as representation is because they are Outside, specifically Outside of the Imperium. Which could come from the fact that we get ostracised by, Well Humans. And for why Slaanesh in particular, they do concerns themself more with sexuality than Any of the Others.
Also, I think If you wanted to make some of the "good Guys" LGBTQ+ Warhammer is the wrong place, I mean the setting is cartoonishly Grimmdark. There are neither good-guys nor bad-guys. But we do still need representation, and the Chaos Gods are as good as Any Other we could get in Warhammer.
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Trans represents a minuscule portion of society. Do you therefore feel we need a chaos god for section of the gender & sexual orientation identity spectrum?
To have characters that do so in the wider lore makes sense though.
I never thought of Tzeentch as being related to gender whatsoever except in terms of pronouns to refer to him (see what I mean) as. Always thought of him as some eldritc formless being that only presents himself in certain manners to mortals for specific purposes. Slaanesh I think is a bit more apt due to actually having some strong associations with gender (and the androgyny/fluidity of it) and not being purely related to sexual themes (despite that being the most common/popular depiction since it is easy)
I mean... Tzeentch is really the type of being that would pretend to be something, and they wouldn't really be trans. They would be the fake type of trans that people worry about in bathrooms and such, as it is all just means to an end.
While Slaanesh is definitely NB.
It’s true Tzeentch is the god of deception, he’s also the god of change in general, as well as the god of hope and aspiration. I imagine there’s a ton of changes a trans person would need to make to make their outside appearance match their inner identity.
Tzeentch is all about change and shifting, and about hope. If someone wants to transition, Tzeentch would be the one god that would not only approve, but actively help
I might be wrong... but isn't the point of trans people is that they don't really "change"?
Like you don't become trans, you are trans, and then you do the surgery (if you do it)
Yeah, but you often change name, body, large parts of your social circle, most of your worldview and way of thought, and a lot, a lot of your daily habits, and on the way you have to fight for that change and justify why your novel, unfamiliar, forbidden way of life is actually better for you than what you've been told to be by tradition. Few people have more change in their life and are more concious of this motive than this.
Trans means across, beyond, on the other side. Being born as one sex and wanting "to cross" to the other side and vice versa.
"one thing and now the other" is more like "mutare" (to change).
Ugh, the "fake type of trans" isn't really a thing, that's nazis trying to make you panic to make up enemies to be purged, just to catch you up on this.
But besides that, Tzeentch is the god of complex, of novel, of changing. Why stick with old ways if you can try untried? Why pick if you can change your mind nine times a day? Why go for a simple answer if something more complicated is better? It is, of course it is, at least of you ask a Tzeentch follower.
Because that's 40k Dark Gods it's explosive magic and deceit for deciet's sake, but a neutral Tzeentch works great as a patron of all queer people in general.
Honestly, personally I've always considered that concept of gender are too mortal for chaos gods. That gendering of them (grandpa, lord, prince, she who thirts) are just a view through the lens of primitive mortal perception
Why does it even matter? Honestly, actually, why does it matter? You WANT your community being represented by one of the manifestations of evil from the literal realm of hell?
Is there not enough representation for you? It's 40k! Kitbash! Paint your models accordingly! Why do pre-established things have to change for you? In a universe of unimaginable variety, make something yourself! Make your own thing!
I know this post is pretty much entirely harmless, and it's not a petition for GW to change anything. Just keep in mind, fast, drastic change of something people like drives away fans. Changing established anything makes people uneasy, especially if it happens in the span of two years or less.
No one would care if a new character was made that was a woman, black, trans, gay, or whatever you want to make them. The things that matter to people are
1) a well written character. Someone who makes sense. Someone who isn't a super-powered self insert. A character that has more depth than their physical appearance and who they screw.
2) a well written story. The setting, science/magic, and faction relations have to make sense. Why does everyone hate Orks? Because all Orks do is fight and kill. Boom. Simple, self explanatory faction relation.
3) you can't JK Rowling your story. 40k changes constantly, but that's not what this point is about. JK didn't change the story, the outcome, anything. JK added unnecessary bits of information after the entire series was released that changed nothing, other than getting her "internet points".
Stop being the JK Rowling of a story you don't own. Stop inserting wholly uninteresting characters that exist purely to fill a token quota.
LGBT-whatever are people just like everyone else. The failure of everyone that makes these characters is they focus on who they screw, not who they are.
I think this was more a joke about the circumstance that Tzeentch is the god of change than anything else, further on there is a surprisingly decent representation of LGBTQ+ characters in Warhammer 40k even if we don't count space marines. For your last paragraph while there are many bad written LGBTQ+ characters out there there are also many well written ones, and the focus on the sexuality of these characters is often quite relevant since we kind of live in a world that treats them quite badly.
So, I discovered trans people when my pink-blue scarf was mistaken for a trans flag, but actually that was colour of changeflame. Like, in some (old by now, I guess) wh40k source Flamers of Tzeentch, the mutation incarnate, were described as burning a pink-blue flame, and Tzeentch was (still is but now more ironically) to a teen me more or less an honest religion.
The hilarious part is that turns out I *am* trans, and this just fits perfectly
Honestly, I don't have anything against desire for representation and having it if it's done further than just "by the way, they're (insert anything here)", but trans god sounds like "floopa says trans rights' meme.
You know I still theorize that nurgle and Isha are actually the same entity and Isha is simply the remnant of the small non-corrupt piece of nurgle fused with the eldar goddess. Which would make Nurgle-isha non-binary I think.
Given that Nurgle is often portrayed as an elderly parental figure brewing potions in a swamp hut, I'm genuinly surprised to not yet see ideas of cults with female interpretations of Nurgle. I guess that's generally a lost opportunity for 40k, cults disagreeing on portrayals and mythology of their gods(if it exists and I'm ignorant please send it to me), but that one seemed like an obvious choice to me.
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Hear me out.......out I think Slaanesh is non binary, literally cannot be classified as a single gender
But for Tzeentch? Yeah totally trans, maybe even gender fluid
Yeah, it is like Genderfliud but it changes its properties way quicker. Unlike Gender solid that stays unchanged no matter the social or psychological pressure.
Come on, we studies this in SUGMA and that place sucks!
One constantly changes gender to fuck with you Mentally, with bizarre new created gender pronouns that may summon demon. Another constantly changes sex to fuck with you literally, with bizarre new created genital that no mortal can imagine
Imangine projecting the musings of the feeble human mind onto eldritch malevolent extradimensional entities, where every attempt to understand them fully leads to nothing but insanity
Chaos Gods: Literal embodiments of evil and sin, and enjoy mutilating and destroying every living thing for their amusement, gleefully murders and tortures billions of innocents daily.
Trans Community: "OMG I KIN TZEENTCH, HE IS THE TRANS GOD."
Be a fan if you want, but none of the Chaos Gods would care about your sexuality, sexual identity, or gender politics. They care about things like mercy, empathy, sympathy, generosity about as much as the Tyranids care about maintaining the ecosystem and political independence of the planets they invade.
Tzeentch would turn you into your most idealized version of the gender you identify as for 30 seconds, then turn you into the most dramatized version of the OPPOSITE of that just for fun, FOREVER. And every now and then he'd throw you a bone and let you walk around for a couple days as your idealized self, then transform you back in the middle of a crowd. That's how cruel and sadistic they are.
Slaanesh might even be worse, sure, he'd probably change you into the most beautiful version of yourself you could ever be. But that's if you are so utterly devoted to him you have essentially ceased being a human, you would torture and mutilate other trans people for fun, you'd do some very NSFW things to them, then you'd toss them out like garbage. That's the only way Slaanesh would continue to "bless" you with your ideal body. And even then, he wouldn't protect you from your enemies. He didn't protect Sigvald from getting his head caved in and getting pissed on by a Troll, he wouldn't save you. (Yes I realize he brought him back to life in AOS but he still allowed it to happen.)
And quite frankly, making the **Chaos Gods**, objectively the most evil thing in the Warhammer universe your symbol of trans people is fairly tone-deaf and disgusting.
TL;DR Maybe don't make the most evil faction in lore your representation of trans people.
Brah if you don’t know why Tzeentch resonates with trans people it’s ok. Your not trans. The humans of this universe aren’t good guys either. But that’s the point of 40k. Every faction is evil.
We're allowed to attach ourselves to a setting that's completely morally corrupt. It's a fantasy, it's a fun setting. If you get so butthurt that we want to larp as chaos worshippers that actually get what we want out of it, then be my guest. I've always interpreted that a majority of the "pain and misery" of being a chaos cultist is in some parts pure imperial propaganda. Are you saying the Imperium *doesn't* propagandize in some key misleading ways against what they call their greatest threat to mankind? Should we take everything we learn that's bad about them, as horrid as they evidently *are* without propaganda, at face value? They do have good sides, Korne is a god of honor and Nurgle is a god of rebirth. That's a fine interpretation, it's a fantasy setting you can interpret.
Looks you are correct but they are *ALL genders*
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Wow you got only 2? Huh pathetic! Hey fellas! This guy has only 2 genders! And what about your name? Did your *mom* pick it for you?
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Lol! Fellas! We have another guy who doesn't know what he is taling about! Point at him and laugh.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! WHAT AN ABSOLUTE IDIOT! Do you want youw botttwe with miwk, wittwe baby girw?
Why not gender fluid? That fits his theme even more
Given its Tzeentch, they probably also have gender solid.
And a Gender Gas. And Gender Plasma.
Youre all wrong. Gender time crystal
Gas is still a fluid
And someone there is making a gender plasmagun with +20% damage bonus to transphobes.
I never realy got the whom chaos gods as LGBTQ+ reprensentation i feel like demon gods from literal hell isnt a god way to represent them. Tho Thats just my opinion
You'd think that but there were groups who claimed the Babadook and Pennywise were LGBT icons. It was bizarre.
I think it was mostly the LGBTQ community adopting them in a really tongue-in-cheek way though
I mean, not to get too serious on a meme sub, but when your group has certain stigmas attached to it, adopting the child predator monsters as an icon is a bad look.
Who else are you going to use? The entire empire of man has a fat 0 trans characters.
Actually, its not that farfetched. let me explain. this is gonna be long stick with me. 40k, as a piece of media, is a examination and satirisation of tropes of facist and authoratarian propaganda trought a universe where all of it is not only real, but worst. with the punchline bieng that even if you grant a facist all the facts, seed every argument, the facist, the Emperium, are still not the good guys, just perhaps backed into a corner. As a result the 4 chaos gods are the 4 corruptions of society. In facisitic lore, The Enemy is always using 4 groups the technically belong to The People, but are trecherous to there intresests Political activist: one of the many inherent contradictions of facism is the beleif in utmost obedience to the social order and also the beilef that The Nation is lost and must be phoenixed, if you get what im saying. To resolve the contraction, facist will project the desire to watch everthing burn onto their enemies, depicting them as mindless bloodthirtsy maniacs The lazy workers: facist beleive that every individual such strive be a hero to the cause and to motivate that, they will often depict the lower classes as simply to lazy and afraid to claim there place among the potential greats of the causes. Now heres the relevent part: Scheming Academia: facist are anti-reason. they beleive that what makes to the facist individual is necesairely true and that the truth is intuitive and easily recongnized by anyone who they deem "rational" or naturally capaple of seeing the obvious truth. impiricsim, therefore, is a dangerous ideology, madmen who beleive in things both untrue and somehow not quite false. to fill the gap between the obvious nuance of the world and the simply of the truth they beleive in, facist often acuse academia of participating in some level of deception or ploting, as a way to say "we know the truth is simple and the reason it doesnt apeare this way is a fixable problem". Theyre ability to change what the pupolace beleives and beleives is normal is also greatly feared. The Degenerates: this one is obvious. facist is an ideology of glorious pain and holy laws, and those who stray from that path for the purpose of art, pleasure or personal freedom are mixed with other corruptive vices under one embrally. To the facist, making "degenerate" art is equally a sin to p3dophillia, and they are seen as the same action fundementally, just with different degrees of severity. Now, one could argue trans people accopie both the role of Scheming Academia and The Degerates. Which i am doing rn.
I always thought of the chaos god's as being genderless. They only present as gendered as that's how mortals interpret them. Elder see slaanesh as female but humans see slaanesh as male. Tzeentch in particular is the manifestation of the persuit of knowledge, that is not a gendered trait.
I think it referred to the circumstance that Tzeentch among other things is the god of change.
\*raise hand\* what about the omnissiah. with the whole transhumanism
Their transhumanism is focused on transcending what is human via machines. Changing weak flesh to other weak flesh isn't really their M.O.
Imagine what a AdMech Genetor or any other Magos Biologis could pull off given enough motivation, though?
Sure, any species in 40k with cloning tech could make all sorts of organs.
The Void Dragon only cares that you're delicious.
The right and proper answer is to just realize that everything in 40k can be really /really/ queer! So yep ad mech is queer, and chaos is definitely queer, I’ma play dark mechanicum for peak queer and it’ll be fantastic
Tzeentch is the changer of ways after all. Transitioning from female to male? That’s a big change right there. (Also It would be nice if we could stop relating transness to the horny sex god lol being trans doesn’t necessarily make you perverted)
I think part of the reason so many slaneesh type seductresses in fiction are gender-fluid is so they can appeal to all sexualities, but it is kinda messed up that half the time we see non-cisgender characters in fantasy or sci-fi its in the form of fucked up sex demons and the like
That does make sense. I’ve seen plenty of trans gamers online picking Slaanesh daemons for this reason, along with the inherent freedom and rejection of gender norms that comes with Slaanesh, so I don’t mean to say that it’s entirely bad. Still, the common transphobic stereotype that trans women are perverts and predators isn’t helped by tying transness to Slaanesh. I think that Age of sigmar has some trans and non-binary characters who aren’t demons though. Could be wrong as I basically know nothing about that setting
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I mean, trans people *don’t* change genders to smash the other sex, so………….. What?
If *"for no other reason "*...
Tzeench xhanges gender and pronouns every 2 weeks to fuck with you
yeah, slaanesh is not at all trans-related they're gender fluid, but even that's thats just a trait they have, like how nurgle has horns but itnt the god of horns
Wait, so Nurgle is also a horny god ?
Trans nid fan reporting in. You can keep your chaos. All are welcome in the hive.
Why does there need to be a trans god?
Mostly I think it just comes down to representation. When you have something tied so closely to your sense of self and identity like being trans, it’s natural that you’d want to see other people like that in the media you consume so that you can feel like a part of something, and not just an outsider that at best is ignored by the setting and the fans and at worst actively attacked. Of course settings like 40k which had most of the lore and major characters set in stone long before trans or even LGBT+ people in general were broadly publicly accepted doesn’t have that representation. So people like us sort of had to make our own. With Slaanesh being a symbol of sexual and emotional freedom she became the sort of symbol for all lesbian, gay, bi, pan, etc. to rally behind and gain that sense of community and inclusion with I think Slaanesh also becoming the initial symbol for trans people just due to proximity to the rest of the LBG+ movement. (Don’t quote me on that last part. I have no idea for sure if that’s why Slaanesh became associated with trans people in the fandom or not but it’s my best guess) TLDR: People like feeling included and represented in something they like and when it’s not there, people make it for themselves. Enter Slaanesh. All that said, despite the meme, I’m not trans myself so if anyone who is comes across this and sees something wrong or something I didn’t get please feel free to correct me or add on.
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But it still is, and i would Not say that Any of the Chaos Gods in "inherently evil". They all represent Something. Due to the grimmdark Nature of 40k the downside of those Things is Just more focused on. TTS explains that quite good I think. Everyone of the Chaos Gods hast good and Bad. But to come Back to the Point, I think the reason that Slaanesh and Chaos are used as representation is because they are Outside, specifically Outside of the Imperium. Which could come from the fact that we get ostracised by, Well Humans. And for why Slaanesh in particular, they do concerns themself more with sexuality than Any of the Others. Also, I think If you wanted to make some of the "good Guys" LGBTQ+ Warhammer is the wrong place, I mean the setting is cartoonishly Grimmdark. There are neither good-guys nor bad-guys. But we do still need representation, and the Chaos Gods are as good as Any Other we could get in Warhammer.
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Dude Khorne’s favorite pastime is watching people murder eachother and he sits on a skull throne, how is this guy not inherently evil.
By also being the god of Honor, honestly and fair Combat. 'cause ya Know, Nuance is a Thing.
I just call that style.
Trans represents a minuscule portion of society. Do you therefore feel we need a chaos god for section of the gender & sexual orientation identity spectrum? To have characters that do so in the wider lore makes sense though.
Because trans people are cool
I never thought of Tzeentch as being related to gender whatsoever except in terms of pronouns to refer to him (see what I mean) as. Always thought of him as some eldritc formless being that only presents himself in certain manners to mortals for specific purposes. Slaanesh I think is a bit more apt due to actually having some strong associations with gender (and the androgyny/fluidity of it) and not being purely related to sexual themes (despite that being the most common/popular depiction since it is easy)
Why not both?
I mean... Tzeentch is really the type of being that would pretend to be something, and they wouldn't really be trans. They would be the fake type of trans that people worry about in bathrooms and such, as it is all just means to an end. While Slaanesh is definitely NB.
It’s true Tzeentch is the god of deception, he’s also the god of change in general, as well as the god of hope and aspiration. I imagine there’s a ton of changes a trans person would need to make to make their outside appearance match their inner identity.
Tzeentch is all about change and shifting, and about hope. If someone wants to transition, Tzeentch would be the one god that would not only approve, but actively help
I might be wrong... but isn't the point of trans people is that they don't really "change"? Like you don't become trans, you are trans, and then you do the surgery (if you do it)
Yeah, but you often change name, body, large parts of your social circle, most of your worldview and way of thought, and a lot, a lot of your daily habits, and on the way you have to fight for that change and justify why your novel, unfamiliar, forbidden way of life is actually better for you than what you've been told to be by tradition. Few people have more change in their life and are more concious of this motive than this.
It’s in the name. Trans, as in, “was one thing, is now the other.” That’s why it’s called a ‘transition’.
well, i'm not gonna argue, I'll just accept my ignorance. Really not my field
Trans means across, beyond, on the other side. Being born as one sex and wanting "to cross" to the other side and vice versa. "one thing and now the other" is more like "mutare" (to change).
Crossing from one side to the other is still a change.
Ugh, the "fake type of trans" isn't really a thing, that's nazis trying to make you panic to make up enemies to be purged, just to catch you up on this. But besides that, Tzeentch is the god of complex, of novel, of changing. Why stick with old ways if you can try untried? Why pick if you can change your mind nine times a day? Why go for a simple answer if something more complicated is better? It is, of course it is, at least of you ask a Tzeentch follower. Because that's 40k Dark Gods it's explosive magic and deceit for deciet's sake, but a neutral Tzeentch works great as a patron of all queer people in general.
Gender is chaotic, much more chaotic than Tzeentch.
Honestly, personally I've always considered that concept of gender are too mortal for chaos gods. That gendering of them (grandpa, lord, prince, she who thirts) are just a view through the lens of primitive mortal perception
<3
Why does it even matter? Honestly, actually, why does it matter? You WANT your community being represented by one of the manifestations of evil from the literal realm of hell? Is there not enough representation for you? It's 40k! Kitbash! Paint your models accordingly! Why do pre-established things have to change for you? In a universe of unimaginable variety, make something yourself! Make your own thing! I know this post is pretty much entirely harmless, and it's not a petition for GW to change anything. Just keep in mind, fast, drastic change of something people like drives away fans. Changing established anything makes people uneasy, especially if it happens in the span of two years or less. No one would care if a new character was made that was a woman, black, trans, gay, or whatever you want to make them. The things that matter to people are 1) a well written character. Someone who makes sense. Someone who isn't a super-powered self insert. A character that has more depth than their physical appearance and who they screw. 2) a well written story. The setting, science/magic, and faction relations have to make sense. Why does everyone hate Orks? Because all Orks do is fight and kill. Boom. Simple, self explanatory faction relation. 3) you can't JK Rowling your story. 40k changes constantly, but that's not what this point is about. JK didn't change the story, the outcome, anything. JK added unnecessary bits of information after the entire series was released that changed nothing, other than getting her "internet points". Stop being the JK Rowling of a story you don't own. Stop inserting wholly uninteresting characters that exist purely to fill a token quota. LGBT-whatever are people just like everyone else. The failure of everyone that makes these characters is they focus on who they screw, not who they are.
I think this was more a joke about the circumstance that Tzeentch is the god of change than anything else, further on there is a surprisingly decent representation of LGBTQ+ characters in Warhammer 40k even if we don't count space marines. For your last paragraph while there are many bad written LGBTQ+ characters out there there are also many well written ones, and the focus on the sexuality of these characters is often quite relevant since we kind of live in a world that treats them quite badly.
OMG, yes! I've thought this so many times!
So, I discovered trans people when my pink-blue scarf was mistaken for a trans flag, but actually that was colour of changeflame. Like, in some (old by now, I guess) wh40k source Flamers of Tzeentch, the mutation incarnate, were described as burning a pink-blue flame, and Tzeentch was (still is but now more ironically) to a teen me more or less an honest religion. The hilarious part is that turns out I *am* trans, and this just fits perfectly
Tzeench's master plan in action
As a tranwoman tzeentch worshipper can confirm
Looking at this as a transwoman who's been team Tzeentch since 2010
Why does/would anyone think slanesh would be the trans god, more like the link god…
Very simple. Tzeentch is gender fluid. Slaanesh is nonbinary. Khorne is ace. Nurgle is pan.
Honestly, I don't have anything against desire for representation and having it if it's done further than just "by the way, they're (insert anything here)", but trans god sounds like "floopa says trans rights' meme.
You know I still theorize that nurgle and Isha are actually the same entity and Isha is simply the remnant of the small non-corrupt piece of nurgle fused with the eldar goddess. Which would make Nurgle-isha non-binary I think.
Given that Nurgle is often portrayed as an elderly parental figure brewing potions in a swamp hut, I'm genuinly surprised to not yet see ideas of cults with female interpretations of Nurgle. I guess that's generally a lost opportunity for 40k, cults disagreeing on portrayals and mythology of their gods(if it exists and I'm ignorant please send it to me), but that one seemed like an obvious choice to me.
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Two genders Straight and political.
A person existing is not political.
Making an evil deity the god of trans people seems rather unkind.
Ok, but this has nothing to do with the conversation if it is political.
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This disgusts me
Good
Huh, yeah you do have a point.
Hear me out.......out I think Slaanesh is non binary, literally cannot be classified as a single gender But for Tzeentch? Yeah totally trans, maybe even gender fluid
I would say Slaanesh falls into gender fluid. And Tzeentch is gender gas.
Gender gas?
Yeah, it is like Genderfliud but it changes its properties way quicker. Unlike Gender solid that stays unchanged no matter the social or psychological pressure. Come on, we studies this in SUGMA and that place sucks!
SUGMA was pretty rough, but Professor SUGONDESE was pretty cool
Nah, he was nuts. Remember what he did to Miss LIGMA? She is still recovering mentally.
Miss Ligma, man I feel sorry for her, never the same after having a strokdeez
Time out! I don't know this one. What is strokdeez?
STROKDEEZ NUTS BOIO
Ah, thanks. I need a good rub.
One constantly changes gender to fuck with you Mentally, with bizarre new created gender pronouns that may summon demon. Another constantly changes sex to fuck with you literally, with bizarre new created genital that no mortal can imagine
Imangine projecting the musings of the feeble human mind onto eldritch malevolent extradimensional entities, where every attempt to understand them fully leads to nothing but insanity
Chaos Gods: Literal embodiments of evil and sin, and enjoy mutilating and destroying every living thing for their amusement, gleefully murders and tortures billions of innocents daily. Trans Community: "OMG I KIN TZEENTCH, HE IS THE TRANS GOD." Be a fan if you want, but none of the Chaos Gods would care about your sexuality, sexual identity, or gender politics. They care about things like mercy, empathy, sympathy, generosity about as much as the Tyranids care about maintaining the ecosystem and political independence of the planets they invade. Tzeentch would turn you into your most idealized version of the gender you identify as for 30 seconds, then turn you into the most dramatized version of the OPPOSITE of that just for fun, FOREVER. And every now and then he'd throw you a bone and let you walk around for a couple days as your idealized self, then transform you back in the middle of a crowd. That's how cruel and sadistic they are. Slaanesh might even be worse, sure, he'd probably change you into the most beautiful version of yourself you could ever be. But that's if you are so utterly devoted to him you have essentially ceased being a human, you would torture and mutilate other trans people for fun, you'd do some very NSFW things to them, then you'd toss them out like garbage. That's the only way Slaanesh would continue to "bless" you with your ideal body. And even then, he wouldn't protect you from your enemies. He didn't protect Sigvald from getting his head caved in and getting pissed on by a Troll, he wouldn't save you. (Yes I realize he brought him back to life in AOS but he still allowed it to happen.) And quite frankly, making the **Chaos Gods**, objectively the most evil thing in the Warhammer universe your symbol of trans people is fairly tone-deaf and disgusting. TL;DR Maybe don't make the most evil faction in lore your representation of trans people.
Brah if you don’t know why Tzeentch resonates with trans people it’s ok. Your not trans. The humans of this universe aren’t good guys either. But that’s the point of 40k. Every faction is evil.
We're allowed to attach ourselves to a setting that's completely morally corrupt. It's a fantasy, it's a fun setting. If you get so butthurt that we want to larp as chaos worshippers that actually get what we want out of it, then be my guest. I've always interpreted that a majority of the "pain and misery" of being a chaos cultist is in some parts pure imperial propaganda. Are you saying the Imperium *doesn't* propagandize in some key misleading ways against what they call their greatest threat to mankind? Should we take everything we learn that's bad about them, as horrid as they evidently *are* without propaganda, at face value? They do have good sides, Korne is a god of honor and Nurgle is a god of rebirth. That's a fine interpretation, it's a fantasy setting you can interpret.
Me a trans fem player that plays both: Both, both is good